Superb. I suspect you're right that Monk wasn't referring to a literal major 9th chord. You made me go back and listen to Monk, Trane and Miles blowing for clues to how they were hearing it! Great lesson in Monk's compositional genius and originality, and nice reminder to never trust charts :)
The Pablo "investigations" interviews are a major contribution to the music, imo. I loved hearing Bill talk about well you needn't because that is a time I have always been both drawn to, and wary of. I used to start on Ab for the bridge, all triads.
WOW what a video!!! When I heard the 9th interval you played, I instantaneously thought “OMG that is 1000% “Monk”. I never realized that he really likes those 9ths. Thank you for sharing!!!
How has no one thought to do a series like this before? Please keep it going, though I'm not sure how you're going to research what tunes need 'correcting'. I guess look at popular ones that people play from the Real Book and compare them with more detailed charts that are out there and make a judgement on whether it's worth focusing on a fundamental detail that could be elaborated on, listening to famous recordings and seeing if there's essential differences between what the greats tend to play compared to what's written, and whether it's actually important. One that comes to mind would be the bridge on 'Bye Bye Blackbird'. The Real Book says F7, but listen to Miles' version on Round Midnight and they go straight into Am7b5. Is that an essential difference? It's really only the bass note as the Am7b5 is an F9 chord as you know. As an example, is that worth making a video on, or is it insignificant? I know Barry Harris says that everybody plays the first chord to Stella By Starlight wrong, that it's not Em7b5 but Bbdim with a major 7th (search for 'Barry Harris' speech in Almeria - Spain' and go to 35:00 mins). Also that everyone plays Am7 instead of Am7b5 for the bridge of All The Things You Are. You be the judge. I hope you have the will to carry on the series as I'd love to hear more.
Like you said, I gotta consider many things. With Stella, I think it’s important to know the original. But also important to know the “wrong” version. For me, what’s important is “would my knowledge help my performance?” Right now, I’m focusing on Monk, since I’ve been studying his music obsessively for the past year. I recently published another video on ‘Round Midnight. Think you might enjoy it. th-cam.com/video/vzI3MQ9JF-Q/w-d-xo.html
And theres a great french interview where someone told Michel Petrucciani just that and his response was "Thank you, but the most beautiful version of that song lives in the mind of the person who wrote it" Rip Petrucciani ( One of the few who 'got it' )
Dig it. The " Real Book" from the 1980´s was put together by students at Berklee in Boston. They made a lot of mistakes. No harm done-It´s only music not flying a commercial airliner. Use your own ears. Phineas Newborn just decided he dug the sound of the flat 7. Maybe it bothered Monk, but it is chromatic space we play in.
I'm just wondering when will another updated "real" or fakebook come out?!?!? There is soooooo much music out there dying to be tabulated in a 21st century fake book, but not having any song less than 50 years old or songs not contained in any version of previous fake books. More like a Modern Real Fakebook. The fakebooks were vital due there were a lot more live music gigs out there for musicians and now not so much but I'd buy it! And a lot more weekend buskers would. Imagine seeing a song like " Surrey with the fringe on top"?!?! No one really wants to hear that.
Nice vignette... Bud Powell and the 6dim old-skool were already targets for progressive but eccentric Monk to rebel against with his modern sound... I'm really getting into him and Frisell is rite - he is perfect for guitarists which is why i'm sure Sco' was digging him with his small interval double stops..
Yes! and that second lead sheet posted near the end seems to be Miles' wrong changes and wrong melody. And because the first (illegal) real book printed it that way, generations of young players have played it wrong with their eyes instead of right with their ears. Thanks!
THE BOOK IS LIKE A :GRAIN OF SALT..IF YOU CAN GET TO THAT. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF THE 12TH,(inverted) AND THE 9th WILL FOLLOW. MONK WAS A GENIE IN THAT REGARD, VERY GOOD THE WAY YOU BROKE IT DOWN, THOUGH, just like you said or did not say, the tune is genesis, and very, very SIMPLE, THAT IS WHY THE SONG SEEMS SO DIFFERENT, AND DIFFICULT... SIMPLISTICALLY FUN!
What about the a section of the tune they have the F7 and a G flat seven sounds like the F is like a major six cord not a dominant seventh. And the melody line on the bridges wrong notes doesn’t sound like what they’re playing
I am a professional jazz pianist and if I saw sus2 open voicing on a chart I would need to ask the band leader for clarification. It is pretty rare that we are asked to just play two notes a major 9th apart. Chord symbols and names are usually for voicings that are at least three notes. Anything that deviates from that, regardless of whether or not the name is technically correct, would bring more confusion than clarity. Probably better to just write it out on the staff.
"Sus', of course, refers to sus4, but sus2, although less common should be clear enough. I use sus2maj7 a lot, which, for example, would be a G triad with a C bass. (Slash chords are for guitar players . . . seriously.)@@alfredleeyun
I know what a sus chord is. The sus part is obviously not the problem. A sus chord typically is a triad in which the 2nd or 4th replaces the 3rd. The problem is expecting a musician to just know that Sus2 open voicing means play two notes that are a major 9th apart. If I saw someone write sus2maj7 on a chart, I would probably kill them. Just write G/C or write the notes out at that point. Music notation, whether on a staff or a lead sheet, should prioritize clarity and ease of use - rather than figuring out bizarre, technically correct names. @@carldroot
I agree that the "open voicing" isn't clear and I use that just to jar my memory. You probably hate C9sus and would prefer Bb/C. I know a lot of fellow piano players who hate slash chords. To each his own.@@alfredleeyun
Thelonious Monk: “He hit the inside wrong - didn't have the right changes. It's supposed to be major ninths, and he's playing ninths (walks to the piano, demonstrates). It starts with a D-flat Major 9” As I explained in the video, there is a difference between a Db9 and a Dbmaj9 “chord.” No one in this video or in the original interview said anything about there being a difference between a 9th and a major 9th “interval.” What I did say is that instead of playing the Dbmaj9 “chord,” it seems like Monk is not even playing a chord. Just Db and Eb, which is a 9th. Again, no one said anything about there being a difference between a 9th and maj 9th in terms of “intervals.”
@@alfredleeyun ok so its simply like monk said Major9 Chords? The whole chromatic chord run up and down in the B part with just the 9th interval being played by the chords? so what monk didnt like is that he filled the chords with the wrong notes?
@@alfredleeyun also thank you for your answer! my english isnt the best and I'm just trying to figure out how to play it the right way. I don't want to offend mr.monks ghost!
@@Koropokel Yes he had a problem with Phineas Newborn Jr. playing the flat 7th on the Db. Monk didn’t play that seventh - not even the third it seems like.
I don't hear Monk playing any 9ths, but only root + 5th, no ninth, seventh or third, which he often did. There isn't any need for the 9th since Rouse is playing it in the melody. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like to me here.
The real book and ALL fake books should be banned or gathered up and burned … there are a whole breed of generations of musicians playing the wrong chords as the result of reading this garbage ….. just use your ears and transcribe akin to the originators if this music …
this is why you can never trust the real book without furthur inspection. This song having dominant chords is blatantly wrong if you are trying to learn the song Monk played it.
Love this video. Realbook correction videos - this can be made into a whole series. Jazz is all about listening, not reading
Superb. I suspect you're right that Monk wasn't referring to a literal major 9th chord. You made me go back and listen to Monk, Trane and Miles blowing for clues to how they were hearing it! Great lesson in Monk's compositional genius and originality, and nice reminder to never trust charts :)
I just noticed a really nice touch to this video, which is that the lofi background music is playing the interval he is talking about on the pad
The Pablo "investigations" interviews are a major contribution to the music, imo. I loved hearing Bill talk about well you needn't because that is a time I have always been both drawn to, and wary of. I used to start on Ab for the bridge, all triads.
this is great! please more of these!
WOW what a video!!! When I heard the 9th interval you played, I instantaneously thought “OMG that is 1000% “Monk”. I never realized that he really likes those 9ths. Thank you for sharing!!!
Very insightful. I'm playing this song for my recital
How has no one thought to do a series like this before? Please keep it going, though I'm not sure how you're going to research what tunes need 'correcting'. I guess look at popular ones that people play from the Real Book and compare them with more detailed charts that are out there and make a judgement on whether it's worth focusing on a fundamental detail that could be elaborated on, listening to famous recordings and seeing if there's essential differences between what the greats tend to play compared to what's written, and whether it's actually important.
One that comes to mind would be the bridge on 'Bye Bye Blackbird'. The Real Book says F7, but listen to Miles' version on Round Midnight and they go straight into Am7b5. Is that an essential difference? It's really only the bass note as the Am7b5 is an F9 chord as you know. As an example, is that worth making a video on, or is it insignificant?
I know Barry Harris says that everybody plays the first chord to Stella By Starlight wrong, that it's not Em7b5 but Bbdim with a major 7th (search for 'Barry Harris' speech in Almeria - Spain' and go to 35:00 mins).
Also that everyone plays Am7 instead of Am7b5 for the bridge of All The Things You Are.
You be the judge. I hope you have the will to carry on the series as I'd love to hear more.
Like you said, I gotta consider many things. With Stella, I think it’s important to know the original. But also important to know the “wrong” version. For me, what’s important is “would my knowledge help my performance?”
Right now, I’m focusing on Monk, since I’ve been studying his music obsessively for the past year. I recently published another video on ‘Round Midnight. Think you might enjoy it.
th-cam.com/video/vzI3MQ9JF-Q/w-d-xo.html
I love Pablo
Excellence in music education!
this is super dope! pleaaaaase make more of these
One of the best videos on TH-cam featuring some of my heroes in jazz.
Thank you! I really appreciate that!
Amazing content man. Thanks for the insight!
great video! keep them coming!
I think you are right. It j just makes harder for us guitarists, who already have problems wirh certain intervals
💯 value for time. I feel tonloads smarter already. Thank you for educating me. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
this is profound . thank you.
Says in the name of the tune, "well you needn't" .......to play the 7ths
very insightful. sometimes less is more
3:03 Wow the 9ths sound much better. Thanks for the video
well said. i love content like this
Cool stuff!
Wow. This is great. Thanks.
I like both versions but I see the point
love this, keep it going
love this
Nailed it.
Great video!
Brillant. Very interesting indeed.
Brilliant
So good
Really interesting
damn cool video man, I always liked Well You Needn't.
The most beautiful version of Round Midnight must be by Michael Petrucciani.
And theres a great french interview where someone told Michel Petrucciani just that and his response was "Thank you, but the most beautiful version of that song lives in the mind of the person who wrote it" Rip Petrucciani ( One of the few who 'got it' )
Dig it. The " Real Book" from the 1980´s was put together by students at Berklee in Boston. They made
a lot of mistakes. No harm done-It´s only music not flying a commercial airliner. Use your own ears.
Phineas Newborn just decided he dug the sound of the flat 7. Maybe it bothered Monk, but it is chromatic
space we play in.
You have a great point but since Monk wrote the tune-how he hears it gives him the right to criticize it if not played the way he hears it in his mind
@@dbone1110 True!
I'm just wondering when will another updated "real" or fakebook come out?!?!? There is soooooo much music out there dying to be tabulated in a 21st century fake book, but not having any song less than 50 years old or songs not contained in any version of previous fake books. More like a Modern Real Fakebook. The fakebooks were vital due there were a lot more live music gigs out there for musicians and now not so much but I'd buy it! And a lot more weekend buskers would. Imagine seeing a song like " Surrey with the fringe on top"?!?! No one really wants to hear that.
I understand why I don't like the bridge. The 7th close everything compared to the 9th in your demonstration. Maybe it's better to play 6/9 than 7th
Nice vignette... Bud Powell and the 6dim old-skool were already targets for progressive but eccentric Monk to rebel against with his modern sound... I'm really getting into him and Frisell is rite - he is perfect for guitarists which is why i'm sure Sco' was digging him with his small interval double stops..
This is a fine example of "don't play the butter notes"
Ya even tho miles meant bottom!
Yes! and that second lead sheet posted near the end seems to be Miles' wrong changes and wrong melody. And because the first (illegal) real book printed it that way, generations of young players have played it wrong with their eyes instead of right with their ears.
Thanks!
Badass!
Thanks!
Very good. But why did you arpeggiate all the examples with 7ths?
Well you needn't play the 7ths.
My hands are small and I cant play those open 9th chords, why should I do?
Try playing that as stacked 4ths ala 9 5 1?
THE BOOK IS LIKE A :GRAIN OF SALT..IF YOU CAN GET TO THAT.
YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF THE 12TH,(inverted)
AND THE 9th WILL FOLLOW.
MONK WAS A GENIE IN THAT REGARD, VERY GOOD THE WAY YOU BROKE IT DOWN, THOUGH, just like you said or did not say, the tune is genesis, and very, very SIMPLE, THAT IS WHY THE SONG SEEMS SO DIFFERENT, AND DIFFICULT... SIMPLISTICALLY FUN!
WHY DO YOU WRITE EVERYTHING IN CAPS??
What about the a section of the tune they have the F7 and a G flat seven sounds like the F is like a major six cord not a dominant seventh. And the melody line on the bridges wrong notes doesn’t sound like what they’re playing
Yep good catch! Monk often plays a kind of line cliché by incorporating the sixth in his voicings.
Melody line on the bridge is written out wrong. What do you think?
Yeah it's because they're trying to outline G7 instead of Db7
Esoteric jazzisms
The real book is full of mistakes
Even the sixth edition that is legally published? That seems odd
I haven't read all the comments, but why not call it a sus2 chord open voicing?
I am a professional jazz pianist and if I saw sus2 open voicing on a chart I would need to ask the band leader for clarification. It is pretty rare that we are asked to just play two notes a major 9th apart. Chord symbols and names are usually for voicings that are at least three notes. Anything that deviates from that, regardless of whether or not the name is technically correct, would bring more confusion than clarity. Probably better to just write it out on the staff.
"Sus', of course, refers to sus4, but sus2, although less common should be clear enough. I use sus2maj7 a lot, which, for example, would be a G triad with a C bass. (Slash chords are for guitar players . . . seriously.)@@alfredleeyun
I'm assuming you're asked to play from lead sheets, rather than charts, from time to time.@@alfredleeyun
I know what a sus chord is. The sus part is obviously not the problem. A sus chord typically is a triad in which the 2nd or 4th replaces the 3rd. The problem is expecting a musician to just know that Sus2 open voicing means play two notes that are a major 9th apart. If I saw someone write sus2maj7 on a chart, I would probably kill them. Just write G/C or write the notes out at that point. Music notation, whether on a staff or a lead sheet, should prioritize clarity and ease of use - rather than figuring out bizarre, technically correct names. @@carldroot
I agree that the "open voicing" isn't clear and I use that just to jar my memory.
You probably hate C9sus and would prefer Bb/C. I know a lot of fellow piano players who hate slash chords. To each his own.@@alfredleeyun
It seems to me there are a lots of errors in the real book
where is the difference between a 9th interval and a major 9th interval wtf?
Thelonious Monk:
“He hit the inside wrong - didn't have the right changes. It's supposed to be major ninths, and he's playing ninths (walks to the piano, demonstrates). It starts with a D-flat Major 9”
As I explained in the video, there is a difference between a Db9 and a Dbmaj9 “chord.” No one in this video or in the original interview said anything about there being a difference between a 9th and a major 9th “interval.” What I did say is that instead of playing the Dbmaj9 “chord,” it seems like Monk is not even playing a chord. Just Db and Eb, which is a 9th. Again, no one said anything about there being a difference between a 9th and maj 9th in terms of “intervals.”
@@alfredleeyun ok so its simply like monk said Major9 Chords? The whole chromatic chord run up and down in the B part with just the 9th interval being played by the chords?
so what monk didnt like is that he filled the chords with the wrong notes?
@@alfredleeyun also thank you for your answer! my english isnt the best and I'm just trying to figure out how to play it the right way. I don't want to offend mr.monks ghost!
@@Koropokel Yes he had a problem with Phineas Newborn Jr. playing the flat 7th on the Db. Monk didn’t play that seventh - not even the third it seems like.
@@Koropokel No problem. Sorry if I came across as rude. I thought you were trying to say I said something wrong.
I don't hear Monk playing any 9ths, but only root + 5th, no ninth, seventh or third, which he often did. There isn't any need for the 9th since Rouse is playing it in the melody. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like to me here.
Real good work. However your use of "Ambient Music" in the middle of the video is not necessary. My two-cents.
The real book and ALL fake books should be banned or gathered up and burned … there are a whole breed of generations of musicians playing the wrong chords as the result of reading this garbage ….. just use your ears and transcribe akin to the originators if this music …
this is why you can never trust the real book without furthur inspection. This song having dominant chords is blatantly wrong if you are trying to learn the song Monk played it.