FJ40 Chill vs CJ2A Chaos // Results of Willys RIGIDITY vs Land Cruiser FLEXIBILITY
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- Let's determine what makes a CJ2a so much more photogenic than and FJ40. Is it looks, the operator, or is it simply the rigidity of the 80-year-old suspension compared to the flexibility of a 40-year-old suspension? And if so, is a rigid suspension really worse, or just different?
The FJ's Suspension:
Shackles: www.coolcruise...
Shocks: www.bilstein.c...
Leaf Springs: www.procompusa...
#HellForStout #Bilstein #ProComp #CoolCruisers
Both rigs are very capable, the difference from my point of view is the (chaos vs control) approach. The FJ is expected to make it through an obstacle using control, it’s fun to watch because you will use patience and skill to complete the task, showing us what the rig can do. The Willy on the other hand becomes more of an exciting question.. “Is he going to make it?” The Jeep is chaos, it bounces like a mountain goat through the terrain, each obstacle completed is impressive and fun to watch because you don’t know if it’ll make it through, get stuck or flip over. The Jeep shows us that “it can be done” the FJ shows us “how it’s done” 🤘🏼😎 great video!
Great assessment! I will adopt it as my own and take credit for it in future content. :)
Nice !!That Willys does look a little stiff ! Lots of sitting between usage is not kind to the leaf springs, rust forming between the leaves does stiffen them up. I was just down in Sand Hollow Utah at the Winter 4x4 Jamboree with Jeff Petrowich and Stan Fuller (BamBam and Grampa's Jeep) Wheeled with them for 8 days straight, and I can tell you their stock Willys springs flex really well. Lots of good vids this year, I'm driving the gray 1958 Land Rover, and another friend is driving his green 1953 Land Rover. Interesting comparison, similar spring travel on all the rigs, but the early Rovers have even beefier frames than FJ 40's, and really interesting to compare the behavior. My old Land Cruiser had a ton more frame flex than my ancient Rover, but both are much heavier than the early Jeeps and do ride better !! All of these old rigs are such a blast and way more capable than most of their owners think. We had a blast on Papa Smurf trail.
I was literally watching you guys on Papa Smurf trail in Sand Hollow when I got this comment notification 😂 Penalty Box is a little beast. I’ve always sort of wanted one of those old Rovers.
In regard to Jamie’s springs, they are relatively new off KaiserWillys.com, but they do only get used every couple to few months, so you may be on to something. Maybe adding a little more spring weight would loosen her up a bit.
In regard to my 40, it is surprising how much frame flex is in these old girls considering the frames are boxed full length.
That's too funny! Also funny that I just drove the Penalty Box up to Longview, Wa, from Placerville, Ca. (Never trailered!!) Yes, those springs will "break in" with some real use, and a good soak every fall with WD40 actually really helps. Having owned all three (Willys, Land Cruiser,Land Rover) I really do feel that all three are excellent machines, and each one brings something to the table. Each one also offers huge performance potential with just a few tweaks (lockers, high clearance spring plates, rock sliders) Three of the Willys on that trail, and the little green 1953 Land Rover are basically stock other than those mods... Look at them go! My "Penalty Box" and Jeffs "BamBam" are cheating a bit, The Penalty Box is LS swapped, but still original running gear, BamBam is 4.3 Chevy v6 swapped. I drive the Penalty Box everywhere, will be running it over to Easter Jeep Safari in Moab this year.
One other thing, Land Rover aluminum body has lead to a misconception that they are light.... The little "Penalty Box' weighs right at 4000# empty with soft top. It kinda shocked me. BamBam weighs 3000#.
Thanks again for the nice comparison video! @@FJAdventurer
Fun comparison, it is interesting to see how much of a difference 4 inches of axle width and 10 inches of wheelbase makes in the smoothness of the ride and in articulation. The standard length CJ springs are always stiff. Eventually I plan to go to jeep yj springs on my cj5. I've really been enjoying watching your videos, keep up the fun content.
Glad you liked it! Yeah, it really is an unfair comparison since there are vastly different rigs from very different eras. But in regard to watchability, the Willys wins hands down in my opinion.
Tahuya! I grew up about 10 mins from there! Spent a lot of my youth on trails! Dirt bikes, mountain bikes trucks and Subaru’s😂
Its definitely one of my go-to's in WA for quick and easy wheelin'.
Nice breakdown. As aging men, maybe its time for Jamie to soften up those springs tho 😆
You are wise beyond your years, youngster 😅
Great video! The yellow Jeep is an LJ by the way. Honestly couldn’t tell you why the Willy’s is more eye appealing over your FJ but they do draw a lot of attention!
I hold a Willy’s Wednesday meet in Longview the last Wednesday of every month and you’re both welcome anytime.
Hey! We met on the 2023 Cascade Odessey. Unfortunately Jamie and I had to head home due to a mysterious malfunction. So, I sub'd your channel and had to watch the adventure vicariously through your lenses, haha... I actually just wrapped up our 2023 Flat Fender Cascade Odessey video and will be dropping it in a week or so. We had a vastly different experience.
I may have to run down and crash your Willys Wednesday event (once the sun returns)
@@FJAdventurer please do we’d love to see the FJ! I completely forgot you were there! Are you guys going to make it back this year for revenge? 😎
@@Pnwvintagejeeps- Jamie is returning for sure. I’m on the fence. I don’t make the greatest passenger, and I haven’t found a flat fender of my own yet (at least one I can afford and rebuild)
@@FJAdventurer I just realized last weekend I get a little chicken in the passenger seat lol
@@Pnwvintagejeeps little chicken?
When you build a vehicle inspired by another vehicle, you often improve the design. The land rover and land cruiser were inspired by the jeeps of ww2
Absolutely. Jamie and I often discuss this same topic - especially when we have our rigs up on the lift. There are Willys fingerprints are all over my old Land Cruiser. But Toyota didn't stop there. They also copied Chevrolet's Stove Bolt straight 6 when choosing the power plant for the old Cruisers.
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”
― Oscar Wilde
@FJAdventurer at some point, i would love an old land cruiser. I've wanted one since I was a kid. Im currently working on a 53 flat fender that will be some what more modern. Running some later cj parts and a modified frame
@@ShopJock - Well, some day I would like an old flat fender! FJ parts are insanely expensive, so it’s not really the best rig for wheeling in anymore. And my wife would like me to keep it Purdy for date nights 😅
If you are in the Pacific Northwest and ever want to take your Willys out for some little light wheeling, hit me up! Jamie and I will join you.
@@FJAdventurer FJ40 parts aren't that bad.
Relative to jeep parts, they are very expensive.
I'm a fan of all old iron
Your buddy has definitely has a pair
I watched a few of your videos, and I think it would be quite interesting if you drove the old 2a and filmed it compared to him
Great vids !
Great suggestion! That may have to be the topic for the next adventure. We are planning a snow trip in the near future.
I like them both, but your FJ is beautiful and I can watch that thing of beauty all day long. That is a TJ Unlimited also known as an LJ.
Thanks! I'm pretty fond of her myself! Now I'm wondering wonder if the 'L' in "LJ" stands for 'L'ong? Long TJ = LJ?
"Kowing is half the battle" ~ G.I. Joe
Yes sir, we call them the Long Jeep. These were the original Unlimited model. They ran for 3 years 2004 - 2006. In 2007 Jeep went to the JK 2 door and the new JKU 4 door models.
Thanks for laying that out for me. Its good to know that there is an actual logical nomenclature to it all.
Vehicle construction at the time the CJ2a was built relied a lot on the frames themselves flexing. Later Jeeps and your FJ are larger and have longer springs which flex better inherently.
As for how exiting they are to watch, it think you are spot on. A samurai or Jeep CJ5 is similar wheelbase and just as rowdy to wheel.
Wheelbase is a factor too since you were talking about the LJ (long 2 door yellow jeep). Sometimes a particular obstacle will have all 4 wheels trying to climb at once on a long wheelbase rig and only on the front or rear of a shorter rig, and sometimes a shorter rig will struggle on something that a longer rig will go up and over easily.
I don't disagree with you at all. I had a CJ5 before my cruiser, and it was definitely rowdy, but not nearly as much as that CJ2A, haha...
Also, the "LJ's" longer wheelbase makes a lot of sense. I didn't consider it at the time, but you are right. I believe all 4 of his tires are in holes at the same time. Which make sense, since 75% of the rigs our there are jeeps like his. Where Jamie and I's rigs are shorter, so 2 in and 2 out just about everywhere out there.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment.
An fj40 frame is very flexible
@@flight2k5- it sure is! And in my opinion, I t’s pretty surprising since the frame is boxed full length.
So, as a life long FJ guy, who for the last 12 yr have been loving a 91 YJ, im gonna admit I literally love my jeep more. The LCs are cool, everyone admires them, but that old Jeep just does it, without worry I'm gonna have a costly mishap.
I've had more "sweet" 4x4s than most, but my old YJ is hands down the one that I'm always sure will, even limping get me out, and home.
Hold on to that YJ! Someday those square headlights are going to be a valued collector’s item 😂
In all seriousness tho, the YJ’s are such a bargain. They are great rigs, and you can still find them for a reasonable price. Plus, you still get the creaks and cranks of Jeep’s final rig with leaf springs - a staple of a true classic!
I don't understand much of this, but I enjoyed the video anyways :)
I appreciate you watching anyways :)
Watched again!
Well done!
Thanks 😘
The log flex ramp comparison isn't great because the cj had a rear tire on the log while the fj didn't. The fj has a much longer wheelbase (90 vs 80) which makes a big difference. The fj does flex better just saying the cj had more front flex before the rear tire went up.
It did look like the cj suspension isn't very balanced and would benefit from softer front springs or stiffer rears. I'd lean towards softer fronts.
Great catch, and I totally agree with you. The Willy’s did flex a little more before the back wheel climbed on - but not much more 😅. The next test sample when we drop off the ledge may be a better example - especially when I show the Willy’s from both the front and rear sides by side.
My 74 fj40 flexes just fine. 2 1/2" lift springs, 2" shackles and 31x10.5 KM3's. Nothing fancy or over the top expensive.
Sounds like the same lift I have. How do you like your km3’s? That was going to be my next tire if my ko2’s ever wear out.
@@FJAdventurer They work great! I had the km2's and didn't like them in deep snow. They didn't seem to release the snow and my 31's would turn into 40's lol. The km3's have a more aggressive sidewall and seem to work better in heavy snow.
I bought them two years ago at about $300 each. I've never really had a problem with BFG's
Hello. I'm in Vietnam, I have a 1974 Bj40 soft top, I want to buy new leaf spring parts like your car. Can you give me the product link so I can order it? Thank you very much 😊
Absolutely! I just added the links in the video's description. Let me know if you don't see them.
Check out these company's.
Old Man Emu
ARB
SLEE
YOSHIS AUTO PARTS..
For Land Cruisers this is the best site and has different forms dedicated for that kind of vehicle......
IH8TMUD(this is the website)
I hate mud is what it says
Mine for example..1FZFE, FZJ80 80 series AND FJ60 series foroum
you're would be the BJFJ40 FORUM. Super helpful people lots of know how, expertise, parts..this site is the Bible for any and all Land Cruisers, their owners, and any kind and any years
😊🎉
Oh.. almost forgot
Dobinsons, they are similar to OLD MAN EMU.
@@FJAdventureryour video was good stuff and I enjoyed checking out your channel.. Thank you for all the goods.
Have a nice day.
I will check more out later..Thank you sir.
@@scotteppers - Thanks for the kind words and comment. I'll have to look into "dobinsons".
You won’t find one original FJ in Maine, plenty of Willys though.
Other than that, parabolic leaf springs will improve any one of the old rigs, whether it is a Land Rover, Jeep or Toyota.
The original jeep still has the best aesthetic kind of like the original Range Rover. Superior design trumps time.
Yep - the old Willy’s is a lovable classic. I’m going to have to get one to tinker with one of these days. That said, I wouldn’t mind adding an old defender to the arsenal either!
I’ll have to look into these “parabolic” springs. I don’t know anything about them. That said, as you start adding more flex and travel, then you have to start worrying about drive shaft slip limits and shock limits. It’s a viscous ⭕️.
Parabolics are OK on mall crawlers, but die fast when really wheeled, and have terrible wrap/hop issues. Been wheeling old Rovers hard for near 40 years now, the factory springs (in good shape) are far better for hard use. Been there and done all of that...... Rover geeks get convinced by other Rover geeks in a super limited market with no real innovation, that a whole lot of substandard stuff is good. There is a reason why no real spring companies make parabolics for other makes..... Only the Rover geeks / nerds are fooled, most of them have no idea what real wheeling / climbing ledges / rock walls is like !!! With all due respect, sorry for my rant !!!! It's nothing personal.
@@timmcooper294 parabolic springs are actually used on multiple oem platforms for medium and heavy duty trucks. There isn’t anything inherently dangerous about them. But like anything else, they need to be designed and engineered specifically for the application they are going to be used for.
There is a bush engineer down under that engineered his own spring pack with hydraulic hangers that has a series two rig that can and does go anywhere. It’s phenomenal and the old boy is genius.
I have used rovers with both stock, heavy duty and medium and heavy duty parabolic springs. I typically don’t trash equipment preferring to drive more judiciously rather than throw it at obstacles. But that’s because I’ve primarily use equipment for work and not to play. I also don’t try to overpower component systems.
I don’t know if that makes me a “nerd”? I’ve been around jeeps, power wagons, dump trucks, rovers, and heavy equipment like skidders, tractors, excavators and dozers since the early seventies and been operating them since the early eighties. So having to depend on them probably has made me a bit conservative.
Remember what I said about "don't take it personal" Most of the Rover people in the states are what I call "geeks" and don't do any serious off road work. I am intimately familiar with the parabolic springs used on commercial vehicles and all modern US pickup trucks that still use leaf springs. In fact, I use Chevrolet Silverado pickup rear leaf springs on one of my Land Rovers, and have been for 25 years! But, unlike the stock Land Rover, they are VERY long........ The problem is exactly what you refer to, engineered for the specific application is an impossibility with the short 36" long front springs on old Land Rovers....The concept just doesn't work in that application. They are too short. A few thick leaves just blast right thru their fatigue life when actually flexed full travel off road often.... The other thing is the hop... They wrap up terribly on the Land Rover application, and the interleaf friction of a multi leaf spring is a huge help in high torque situations, as it acts as a damper. it's really quite remarkable how much better a good condition set of factory springs behaves under duress !! Oh, and I've seen that one down under, would love to see it drive 1,000 miles, climb the steep ledges I climb, and drive home. It's a leaky, complex answer to a simple problem. And, the home made leaky portal boxes are frightening !! Yikes!! I trust my life and others around me to the reliability and stability of my ancient (1958) series I Land Rover, looking stock, but with Chevrolet LS V8 power. I have scienced and proof tested out over the decades , spring and shock absorber combinations that actually work at 80MPH on the interstate, and really work well off road. (real off road that gives a lot of big purpose built vehicles a hard time) And you know what, my findings are the same as the high end spring shops that build leaf springs for off road race classes that require them......... Lots of thin leaves are best for rough off road applications ! Willys, Toyota, and Land Rover all used this formula.... Those guys were pretty spot on all those years ago! @@jdenmark1287
Classic battle ….. go JEEP my kind of wheelin
Battle indeed, but friendly for sure. 😁
A mystery answered.
haha... A mystery the world didn't know existed - until now! :D
Its not an FJ
True. It’s probably more accurately defined as a “40 Series Land Cruiser”. But FJ40 rolls off the tongue and little easier - FJ even more so. That said, since it has a Small Block Chevy swapped in, it’s probably more accurately a SBCJ40 since the F in FJ is long gone. But, SBCJ is a mouth full as well. I could just refer to it as J or Jeep for that matter. Most people do anyways 😂