How to lay water lines properly in a van build
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2019
- Have you ever heard of Uponor fittings? The Vagabond custom van build continues with an explanation of my floor bones in a van, including a custom stainless steel shower pan. See beautifully laid water lines cross the van floor and how to connect them using Uponor fittings.
#onahumbleroad
#vanbuild
#vanlife
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I love your attention to details. To me, you’re more then just a van builder, you’re a van architect.
batTorah - the Frank Lloyd Wright of the Class B!
Ditto
Van Gogh!
If only the mass produced builders of campers and RVs would have the confidence in the quality of their manufacturing to do such a detailed and transparent explanation of how their products were made...
Anyone else have a list of van builders they follow? Humble Road is steadily rising to my top go to van channel.
Greg Virgoe from the UK, Ken from Ourkaravan, and Dave Orton. Dave is a retired winery engineer in Norcal and his van was featured by Kirsten Dirksen. Dave has some creative solutions that no one else has ever done. Check out his van and pay attention to the hole in the floor stopper plug (for drawing cool air in) and the innovative bed design. He also used corrugated polycarbonate (Lexan Coroplast) for his ceiling, genius! Simple and keeps it insulated. These are great ideas that need to be taken further. I love the plug in the floor, sheer genius. And his bed is such a novel idea.
Swiss Engineer - th-cam.com/video/TqCsJcZvdzQ/w-d-xo.html
Check out his shower concept and the foot heating channel.
However, the best documentation, the humor, the photography, consistent innovations, attention to detail, parts list, tips and techniques, focus on step by step build, and variety of builds are only in one place - Humble Road. This is truly the epicenter of van building.
In its entirety, I couldn’t agree more with Lass In-Angeles’ reply.
Mel,s world is a good one
I do however, George the man.
@@lass-inangeles7564 TH-cam doesn't have a *Love* button, so I'll just have to use words: yours is an elegantly evocative comment. Couldn't agree more.
Utility - Practicality - Design Innovation - Safety = A truly fine van.
A true innovator is always learning. You always keep your eyes out for newer products coming on line.
Marine techniques and products marry well with a van build.
I really think all van builder/customizers should watch your videos.
"They made this stuff for idiots!" LMAO! BEST COMMENT EVERRRRRRR!!!!!! I feel like I'm being taken to school watching these videos! I LOVE THIS!
A crafted cup of coffee & a craftsman's video. A nice was to start my Sunday. Sláinte
George you made me smile again. You could make an Uponor ProPEX musical instrument.
I love that idea, and indeed George is tha man for that job. :)
We all have said how your attention to detail is fantastic George and your tiny cradles of safety for your PEX lines made me smile.... as always your videos do. Have a nice week.
I have used that plumbing system in residential applications. In my opinion it is the best system. No user error. Nothing that can corrode. When I build my RV I plan on using the same.
Thanks for the reinforcement of this technique. You've further encouraged me to do likewise.
Nut Bucket! (Couldn’t resist - an oldie but a goodie!)
Great way to spend a Sunday morning - “Carey On” with the great work on this build George and Vagabond!
really enjoying these videos, ive learnt more from watching these than watching hundreds of other builders, who somehow seem to skip the finer points , all those small details we could really easily miss and could create a problem further down the line.
Thank you Daryl!
I like the way you search for the best products and techniques for building a quality van. This should serve the Careys well in their adventures
Pro Pex and Uponor: If anybody has had or thought about having their house re-piped, yes, common. Tool is (one time) expensive.
Regardless, you are a craftsman George. And a big part of the appeal of your video's is you; you make it enjoyable - we WANT to watch.
Don't get any ideas George, but what you do and how you do it is worth paying to watch.
Thank you Carl!
I always look forward to your Sunday morning videos.
You are once again amazing! The workmanship and research tells it all! Thanks for the surprise video!
I slept in this morning then quickly made breakfast and coffee so I enjoy another video!! You make it look fun and easy!! I’m sure it is a lot of work, planning and experience that makes it look that way. Thank you!!
Thanks for doing these videos I have definitely learned a lot and learned that I did a lot of stuff wrong LOL
You make my Sunday morning, Sir !!! Great ending :) :) :)
Thanks for sharing your water pipe solution!
Specific and useful, thanks George. Haircut has you looking as clean as those UPONER fittings! :-)
Thank you, Professor! ❤️
That’s quite the collection of tools! Can’t wait for the reveal on this van😃. Cheers 🙋♀️🐶🇨🇦🍁
You have some great ideas, but I would add one more pipe. It would be a return line to the water holding tank, with an extra valve in the shower. By turning this valve the hot water line would clear the cold water, so as not to waste water waiting for hot water.
I think you are the best van builder yet. But something I wish you would zoom in on. For example. The 90 degree bend. When you put the hot water heater in and the hot water system from the engine could you make sure you zoom in a little closer on connections. Thanks love your video's. Ok one more thing. You should do a little black and white cartoon video of your self working on the van. Maybe just a short video. Ok that's all. Lol
Your work is the best!
Love the b-roll at the end.
That might just be my favourite part, along with the music at the end. Poetic!
I wondered how you could be SURE not to experience a leak under the floor. This explains everything. Uponor and PEX Pro all the way, baby!
This van is so different than the first one. Although I love every minute of the build itself, I can't wait to see the finished product. I'm liking that Milwaukee expansion tool way better than those manual ones. Definitely going to come in handy.
That Milwaukee tool was very expensive, but well worth it in the long term. I did the same move with RIv-Nuts. Wicked expensive tool, but over time; priceless. I'll include that tool in an upcoming video.
@@HumbleRoad Yes, I checked it out and was surprised how expensive it was but I figured you'll be getting your money's worth out of it. Looking forward to seeing the next tool!
I'm just sitting here drooling with desire ...😍
RIGHT!? Who knew that fittings could be so cool!? I don't need them (yet), but I want them 😍
Just sayin' - Although aluminum reacts negatively to stainless steel, large surface areas of aluminum to stainless steel can be acceptable depending on local environmental conditions. Severe corrosion is likely to take place in a marine environment. However, there are methods that can be used to reduce this effect. A good way to reduce corrosion is to use an isolating coating or paint on the aluminum and the steel to isolate them electrically. Insulating washers are also effective in isolating the two dissimilar materials and creating a relatively safe surface area.
Drinking Corona in 2019. He clearly knew about, what was coming! ^^
Thank you George! Awesome build as always love it! Beautiful work and build. 👍❤️❤️❤️
Wow George! I watched the first of your videos for me about a week ago I think. I think I immediately subscribed. Well, I I just finished watching all of your videos. That's right, I binge watched your videos like I was watching Breaking Bad! I need more! More, I tell you! Just kidding, I can wait.
It's great that you're doing the build for another channel--we'll all get to see your ideas in action for years. 😁😁
Thanks for introducing us to that sexay Uponor system--idiot proof, leakproof, and bombproof! Plus it spins.
P.S. Leave it to George to make clearing a bunch of stuff out of a van entertaining.
Going to see if we can get these fittings here in Canada.
Looking forward to the water heater install.
Cheers Toz
Shauna T im wondering if they would contract and expand in our colder climate. I plan for winter use and everything has to be ready for s....
He is a teacher!! !love him!!
Most excellent!
Loved the fittings!
Absolutely most brilliant and entertaining van builder ever 😃
Thank you for the lesson Master!
great work here guys
George, your builds are absolutely the most well thought out I have ever seen! Just awesome! Thanks & Blessings ~Sidney
Wow, thanks!
♥️...Humble , you are so wise ... I LOVE IT ! 😊
Love the details your giving 🙏✌😀
Thank you! Cheers!
George you look great! Nice to see you. Stay well.
Oh and btw, that was the fastest 16:35 I ever spent! Lol. Welcome back.
Beautiful. 👍👍👍
Thank you for your excellent videos!
My pleasure!
Oooo! It Oop-ens! Thanks, George!
I wanted to see if you could tell me what size stainless steel shower pan did you use and what gauge is the stainless steel. Thanks George for all the great videos
nice haircut!
Thankfully, I get a look from my wife when it's time!
ty
Great work as always, I think everyone else has done the job letting you know your work is outstanding. I have a question about the use of the 1 inch tubing as ferring strips for the floor. You said you ground down the van surface then used a non water base adhesive, did you treat the area with rustoleum before gluing and if so which adhesive did you use?
Just like Wirsbo
#650! Thanks for sharing.
Love the details of your videos. The best one I've seen so far. Do you have a website?
George, one thing I admire about your builds is that they are designed to be serviced and maintained. Are you concerned that a plumbing issue in the field would be difficult to repair without extra fittings and the special tool?
A collar leak can be arrested with a SS hose clamp. But yes, spare parts are always to be carried. And there are less expensive manual stretching tools available. Keep it in perspective. I don’t expect you to carry a spare inverter or battery!
George you have created beauty with pex tubing!!! 😍
You got my husband's interest as I watched!!
(Where did you find this special drill for the tubing? My husband asks, rewind that again!)
Please Carey On with this build I might be convincing my husband to drive on down for one of these vans in the near future!!
George as usual exceptional work!!!!
Bravo!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Here you go: tinyurl.com/y366vxh6
Very difficult to understand your explications because i’m french and my English is limited. I regrets because you’re a passionate man.. water and energy are essential in a van and I love this product. Is it possible to translate your videos ?
Sorry for the question and thank you very much for your sharing
Sam 💚 Pyrénées
In the case you would install an hydronic heated floor, how would you run the tubing? Would it be an idea to run it within the 1in square aluminum in addition to the loop with heat transfer plate?
I would cut the joist to allow the tubing to pass
So you could say one of the new buzzwords in your shop is.... UPOTIONS!!
😀
Such a great start to my day! I'm going to lag my build behind your series, just to be sure I don't miss anything. As I start insulating, I'm wondering about the surrounding channel around the floor that is accessed by those black plastic covers. Did you insulate in there or leave it open?
RAM specifically says to leave those channels open and unobstructed for drainage and air flow. So lay a piece of insulation across and on top laterally and that's the best you can do. I will do another video on the additional insulation we install once all wire and modules are installed. Particularly along the driver's side wall which typically gets positioned towards the hot sun when parked.
@@HumbleRoad Yay! I did spot the tiny holes below and figured they were important for the van to shed moisture. Your response is the confirmation I needed. Thanks, George!
How thick could the insulation be under the hot and cold water lines that are buried in that channel from the water pump to the shower? Should those be heat traced before putting the sub flooring down? Looking forward to your explaination of the shower drain as it sounds like it will be exposed under the van. Great video George!
We put a 2 inch wide strip of Thinsulate down and rested the Propex in that bed of goodness. Keep in mind there is airflow underneath, because we mounted on all the high spots in the floor. If this van is ever in sub freezing temps, the inhabitants will be there as well, with the heat going full blast. I'm not concerned with those pipes freezing.
Hi Jorge, Have you ever thought of using Patio ceiling panels (2 or 3" foam sandwiched with metal sheets) on the floor of a van?
Is it structural?
@@HumbleRoad Yes you can walk on it, and run wire through it
George, have you had any freezing issues with those water lines traversing the floor of the van?
No freezing issues, however I no longer run any lines under the floor
Love the channel and have probably bin watched almost all of your videos and the ones I want to mimic probably too many times to count. Quality all the way around. Any tips on where to buy similar custom shower pan? Waiting for responses from all of my local metal fabricators, but if you know of quality vendors you can share I would rather not gamble. Thank you!
Go for it!
What kind of thermal break are you planning for under the shower pan, George? Heavy mass vinyl? Or something else?
Enjoyed the video, as always! Thanks!
The shower pan needs to have a good strong connection to the van floor, so the only "break" between the two is the dollop of adhesive. The pan will be surrounded by plywood and have a thick wood boardwalk set inside.
The uponor hoses and fittings, do you have to worry about any freezing issues in cold climates?
Yes, just like any other water pipe. All my plumbing is inside the van, so as long as you are living in the van with the heat on, no worries. If you are going to store the van in cold climates, then a winterization process is required.
Love this so much. One question regarding placement of the shower lines. I notice you placed them alongside the edge of the bed frame. Was this just the convenience of this design or do you see a benefit to keeping the pipes away from areas that will be frequently stepped on?
I ask because i am considering an option where my pipes go from a similar pump location, to a similar sink position, and then wrap around the edge of the floor by the sliding door and towards my shower behind the drivers seat.
I'm concerned about placing those pipes in a space that will frequently have pressure applied, but any surrounding wood/aluminium framing should absorb the pressure right?
The aluminum joists would certainly protect the water lines running under the floor. I simply don't do it for practical reasons during the build process and throughout the life of the van. SOMEONE could unknowingly put a screw right through your well protected pipe! Then what?! ☹️
@@HumbleRoad Excellent point, thanks for the response. Appreciate your videos a bunch, probably the most pragmatic, well considered and hilarious van conversion content out there!
I am so enjoying the videos for this build. What is the size of the shower pan you are using? Thanks
This shower pan is 24 x 36. But that is a completely custom size, based on their particular floor plan.
do you have a link to that spreader tool for water tubes, nice clean job you did there, greetings from The Netherlands
Hi George, very interesting to see all the details. I have one question though. Is there a specific reason to use aluminum profiles that you glued to the floor and used for the water pipes instead of wood? I may build my own van in about 2-3 years from now and I am very much interested in the choices you make and why you make these choices.
Regards,
Marcel
I avoid using organic materials in hard to reach dark low places.
Uponer fittings! Who knew?! Just how many Cardinals have you had there?! LOL! Again you amaze me with your organization!
QUESTION: you have a steel truck, aluminum ribs/bones. Correct me if I am wrong. You sand the paint off the rides in the van floor to glue on the aluminum. Meaning you are combining steel & aluminum. I thought that was a bad thing. Won’t there be some sort of reaction over time with them touching? (Forgive my ignorance, chemistry was a LONG time ago.).
As I mentioned in the video, there is a healthy dollop of adhesive between the two metals.
Hey George. I know this is an old video but I was just curious if you used any type of hardware besides the adhesive to hold the square tubes to the van floor
Just adhesive. P&L Marine
Ok great. Thanks so much. You’ve taught me a lot. I love your sense of quality and preparedness of having to repair stuff down the line. I’m a building inspector by profession and educate young contractors all the time. think about the install as if you need to come back and fix it.
Anyway again thanks. I’m gonna be starting my build soon. Just trying to decide on what vehicle to go with.
hi George , why didn't you use the heavy mass vinyl on the floor before the insulation like the last van? Did in not work as well as you hope . Keep up the good work .
marcusallenyt -This van had a ceiling height requirement we needed to address. Since we did not have room for HMV in both the floor and ceiling, and based on the intended use of the van, the better place for HMV was up in the ceiling. Each build will address the specific needs and objectives of the owner. No cookie cutter thinking here!
Hi George thank you for your reply . I was hoping you would say that . We are getting our sprinter in April and I wanted to add the HMV to the floor . Keep making great content
Could you link to where you get your propex and uponor fittings?
Can you tell us where you ordered the custom shower pan?
The grey water from the shower pan. Do you run a line straight to the grey tank underneath or do you have a pump to pump the grey water to the tank?
grey tank is gravity fed.
@@HumbleRoad thank you!!
That’s amazing! What diameter are you using for your tubing? 1/2”?
In this particular build we used 1 inch square tubing
@5:40 you mention you can get at that fitting, but it seems to me when you use those fittings, once it's on it doesn't come off. or is there a way to disconnect and replace a line when installing and you made a line too short for example?
You are correct, you cannot re-use the fittings. You would have to cut it out and splice in fresh. But at least, behind the fridge, it's accessible.
You mentioned thermal brakes. Is there not a concern about thermal bridging with the square aluminum glued straight to the metal floor?
The adhesive is the thermal break. The benefits of using aluminum joists, IMHO, outweigh any thermal conductivity that occurs beyond the adhesive
@@HumbleRoad Interesting, thanks! I've only recently discovered this whole world, so I'm learning a ton.
Uh, George, we can still see the beer can🙄 You’re right, I’m not a good crimper, I couldn’t even crimp Barbie’s hair. 😊
😆
Hahahaha my barbies got their hair cut off and I had more fun with my hotwheels.
Hi George. Does this water system need a complete purge before the van is parked in cold weather for a few days? Where is the first failure point?
Yes, if you are leaving the van in cold weather with the cabin heater OFF then you need to winterize.
Do you provide "as built" plumbing and electrical schematic … even rough drawing as opposed to scale … to buyer's? I'm meaning, if I bought a van from you, would I get that info, not looking to buy a plan of what you did but I'm betting you could sell those also! At any rate, thinking of my experience with a Winnebago and doing major hunts for inline fuses on occasion as well as other electrical and plumbing troubleshooting.
Interesting video as always. I would never use anything for plumbing water or propane except 3/8 soft copper tube with flared ends. My van has it, my boat has it. They were manufactured that way, and there has never been an issue during the 30 (Tiger) and 40 (Albin Trawler) years since each was built. I suspect Pex is used because it's cheaper and easier, the definition of "better" is subject to interpretation. Better to me means it will last 40+ years, you can drive a truck over it and it won't be damaged. Being "set in your ways" means you have found what works and want to keep it that way.
Have you considered running the water lines in the wire chase you make?
Yes. I will have a video on those chase runs in the next few weeks
@@HumbleRoad I hate arm chair designing like that but I had to ask. I’m doing that in my build right now. But I absolutely love all the life-cycle thought you put into your builds. Again, great stuff. Thank you!
Still looking for a van, but counter-sinking the shower pan into the floor is definitely in my plans. Since I'm planning a 'hall bath' a la Roadtrek(side baths don't work well with Econoline curved walls), making the shower pan disappear when not in use is important to me. The real trick will be making it drain to a gray tank inside the van(I don't want any external water tanks, northeast winters being what they are). I'm hoping a 'Whale Marine Gulper' shower drain and pump system will fit my needs. Any other possible solutions you can think of George?
Whale Gulper's are great pumps. What caused me to choose Remco instead was that I thought it may be difficult to have the Whale serviced here in the good ole USA. For your indoor shower sump, search for that: marine shower sump box.
@@HumbleRoad Yep, totally agree: www.amazon.ca/Shower-Drain-System-Bilge-Boats/dp/B07RK5849F
Great video as usual, and I do have a question. If you run the water along the channel on the metal floor of the van, is there not a greater chance of freezing the lines if the van is used in very cold climates a lot ? Would you not want the water tubes inside the warm van above the insulation? I'm not sure, but just curious your thoughts on this?
If the cabin is heated, the floor would not get down to freezing in the conditions this couple will live in.. each van is built to the client’s objectives.
If a client plans to spend a majority of time in sub zero conditions, first I would ask “why,” then build accordingly. ☺️
@@HumbleRoad the why is the easy one for me . I love skiing, snowboarding and Alaska in the winter and chase that sort of adventure and don’t find baking in the sun in the dessert as appealing . Thanks for the excellent information you provide .
Do you like the Super Tuff over the SilveRboard? Did you have to buy it in bulk? How did you get this product?
If it’s up to me I use polyiso. Super Tough is available at Home Depot
Hello George! I am just curious: why didn't you run the water pipes on the inside wall or ceiling of the garage instead of running them into the floor?
I would think they would be less prone to damage in the floor. In the garage they could get snagged, hit, etc. plus you’d need to build something around them if you wanted to insulate them anyhow... I think it’s an elegant solution.
@@rickdeweese8445 I prefer to get permanent access to wires and pipes the most possible, if possible: once the floor screwed and glued over the pipes, it's over.
Regarding insulation, being so close to the metal floor with thin insulation maybe a concern for me, living in cold Canada. George surely must send heating to the garage and if not, it would be dam cold for the people sleeping over it, so with a heated garage, like the rest of the van should protect the pipes running into it. Finally, a removable protective cover can be easily installed in the garage to protect those pipes against any shock from the items stored into it.
I made a point of explaining how the run is continuous and uninterrupted from exposed point A to exposed point B. Safely cradled forever, just as it is in every single house across the land. Buried and forgotten!
After thinking about this exchange, I had to come back to say neither approach is right nor wrong. All a matter of personal preference and priorities. What is most important to me is that we all continue to offer our individual ideas and thought processes. For this is how iPhones are born...
Hi George. New subscriber here. I am learning so much by watching your videos!! Could you please tell me where you sourced the fresh water tank? Thank you.
Welcome aboard! The Vagabonds purchased that water tank, from where, I don't know.
Can you run the 80/20 the full length of the van if one wanted to raise the floor?
And do you have to tap into the fuel line for the water heater to have hot water?
Is there a electric water heater that I can use?
I do not recommend 8020 under the floor. It's too pretty and expensive for that! Consider aluminum square tubing in a proper weight bearing gauge. My water heater system use closed loop glycol stealing heat from the engine. The heat is also 120V electric.
I'm talking about raising the height of the floor with it since it's pretty sturdy and then do a build out that way I have a lot more space underneath
Understood. You can raise the floor to any desired height www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/aluminum-square-tube?gclid=CjwKCAiAm-2BBhANEiwAe7eyFGakVlmUnACx4Q4a7pe7JWw9Q8xrZh_6Z4UjmbUwjuYnsLgddTKjrBoCj5YQAvD_BwE
do they make these for garage doors?
why do you have to sand the paint finish off the floor before glueing the aluminium, does it stick better?
Yes, better adhesion to bare metal. Don't want to rely on the adhesive pulling the paint off
Humble Road ahhh that makes perfect sense now!Thank you, I really appreciate all your great tips and info. I’m starting my van build and there’s no one near me to help. I’ll remember to use the “non-water based adhesive on the bare metal”. Keep up the great work!
I am wondering how much it costs to finish a van like that?
hello, do you have a link to propex tubing ?, i would like to understand the difference between pex and propex, thanks for all your detailed explanation. It seems to me that you call propex what in fact is Oxygen Barrier PEX, Am I wright or wrong ? Thanks in advance.
Oxygen barrier is the orange tubing. Proper stretches to accept fittings. Pen does not, must be crimped only.
😎
Why go with 1" tubing? 3/8ths is the application used in residential kitchens and bathrooms. Bends easier than 1". Seems like the right application for vans... What am I missing?
Seems to be a misunderstanding. I used 1" square tube under the floor acting as a joist system. The water lines are 1/2" propex.
Humble Road tyvm!
What is the size of this tank? Any reason you didn't go with a wheel well tank?
This tank is 37 gallons. I can make better use of the space above the wheel wells rather than placing water tanks there.
George how much do you charge to help us to winterize, just got our new Hymer akiv. we need some lessons on winterizing the truma combi and water tanks ASAP, we bought from out of state dealer with no warranties or manuals from HYMER, can you help?
david and Lisa in Roselle NJ.
Sorry guys, I'm too busy building and shooting. There are plenty of videos on this subject.