I believe if there is or isnt a law to report it anyway its the moral thing to do its a crime but watchtower company is afraid of lawsuits so in this case it minds its own business
Llyod, I was raised a JW for thirty years and didn’t know that these “marking talks” existed! I faded many years ago, because of lack of belief/faith , but still carried guilt. Your videos have helped me to realize that I made the right choice. Thank you!
I joined the organisation 30 years ago and I found out about it when I was privately reproved as an unbaptised publisher. I thought my reproof then was OK felt I "deserved" it not realising I was already that indoctrinated
I've never heard them explicitly stated as a "marking" talk. It was apparent from the content of the talk if you were familiar with the situation, but it was usually more sly and addressed as a "local needs" talk.
I asked some honest questions, and even referenced specific articles to an elder, and the only "help" he ever gave me was to say, "It's best if you don't dwell on that." so I showed him an experience in another article where a Catholic priest told someone that and that woke her up. So then I asked him how his answer was any better. The conversation ended really quickly.
This is a vile and intentional destruction of a person's reputation. Truly disgusting. I'm so angry right now. We 'apostates' don't just go away because our beloved relatives are being held hostage, mentally! This 'talk' is an excellent example of how they operate. 😡 Great job Lloyd 👍
"Already, we're in la-la-land. What an extraordinary individual this is." Haha! Oh goodness, Lloyd I always really enjoy your videos. I've been out for 7 years and you still constantly help me feel like I'm not crazy.
We,v got freedom of choice,,, get a balance,, come back,,, please do come.back,,,, dont miss out on liveing forever, in paradise,,, on earth please come back,
I don’t believe that the elders are true believers. There’s no way they can all swallow this BS! They love power and it’s the only power the window washers have in their lives.
We had a close friend whose wife pressured him for years to become an elder. She wrote all of his talks for him because he had no interest. He'd tell dirty jokes at work and lead a double life. He became an elder a few years ago and changed overnight. The power went to his head. He began harrassing us to stop talking to our children. When I told him about the UN, he asked what year that was. I told him and hoped that he would look it up. I knew that even if he did, he wouldn't give up that power. It's the only thing that he had ever had position in. He's a sad little man. He and his wife have shunned their children for over 15 years and don't know their grandchildren.
@@mannixj.michel9055 I believe that because they don't talk to any of their children and grandchildren, it made them angry that my children faded, but we still had a close family.
Sorry but I have to say that that is an ignorant statement. There must be elders out there like you describe but there are many that are genuinely good but misguided people. My father for example is a good and loving man who got the truth when he was young and just made it his life. I remember my mum telling me that when he would come home from elders meetings he would curl up in bed and hide, just from all the pressure and stress it took to do that job (that he did as a volunteer, gave up his time with family and recreation). He didn't like being an elder but he did it for others, not himself. Even though I'm out now and can see the religion clearly for the horrible organisation that it is, I still am not bitter against my family and especially my father. I can't agree that elders are part of the conspiracy, that they do it for power and don't believe it's the truth. I feel pity for all these people that are primarily good, that give themselves entirely to a useless and harmful cause.
I was marked three years ago for falling in love with a man who was not baptised in the religion they told me I couldn’t even speak to him in the hall. I said go to hell I’ll talk to who I want to. My family and I were shunned in the congregation too, I got threat letters from elders wives. All of my friends and. Family still don’t talk to me other than my parents who left with me. My parents were shunned too for not shunning me! Needless to say we left and I’m now happily married to the “worldly man” and we have a beautiful son together. 5th generation in and 1st out.
Wow what a beautiful ending for u. So happy u found happiness n u still have your parents. Many jw marriages don't work out. No guarantee marrying a jw is going to lead to a happy life. I know many that had failed but they just dwell on marrying in the lord (same faith). My bro did so n had 2 failed marriages. My sisters qst marriage failed. But as I said, just personally I know of heaps more n some just separate bc they can't get a scriptural divorse. funny how worldly people r deemed bad people. But in fact they can be the kindest loving people.
@@kevinwarren1576 its neither satan's organisation or Gods organisation. It's a manmade organisation, same as any other religion. Only difference between them is that some religions are crazier and more cult-like than others. Calling JW satanic is in my opinion an unhelpful way of demonising JWs. We're all human at the end of the day, and labeling whole groups of people as either good or evil isnt a healthy way of looking at people.
@@kevinwarren1576 I'm an atheist and was born with atheist parents. My partner is ex Muslim. JWs have things bad, but I think you are mistaken if you think they are the worst of what world religions have to offer. In many countries in the middle east, apostasy and blasphemy is punishable by death under the law. Islam, as far as I know, is the largest abomination to human freedom today, both in the numbers that follow it, and the laws and practices such as female genital mutilation, forced marriages, kidnappings etc that happen. However, I'm sure that history is rich with religious fanaticism that makes modern Islam look like a nothing bad at all. All religions are bad, just some are worse than others and they all need to be understood in relation to their social context and cultures etc. Its very interesting, which is why I enjoy these videos and discussions. I say all religions are bad, because they are all build upon falsehoods and manipulations. Buddhism, from what I know, is the least responsible for this, as it doesn't make sweeping statements about magical men in the sky or any other such grand assumptions not based upon empirical evidence. Even then, they say that resurrection is a thing... without any evidence. All religions are about mind control and having a monopoly over their version of the truth and pushing their version of the truth on as many people as possible.
@@kevinwarren1576 Thanks. It's good to keep busy. I used to spend a lot of time looking into ex Muslim content because my partner was leaving her family religion a few years ago. Over time, I found the topic just too depressing and harrowing to even deal with as an observer. I quite enjoy exJW stuff though. It seems a much more milder form of stupidity and ignorance in comparison to the horrors of islam.
It’s AMAZING that even one year ago I totally would have bought into that talk 😬 THANK YOU SO MUCH, Lloyd, for helping me to wake up! Job well done! Keep on keeping on🤗!
I made a comment during the broadcast that it's amazing looking back how it can open your eyes even wider! Because you realize how you had swallowed this Grotesque Bull$h1t (GB) hook, line and sinker.
GB NoMore A myriad of things…what started my waking up was that my 17 year old daughter who is not baptized and lives with her inactive JW dad (bad scene) was having a lot of mental health issues. I wanted to support her in some of her choices that weren’t exactly JW friendly. After a lengthy discussion with my “close” JW friend, she asked, “Well, who do you choose? Jehovah or your daughter?” I was stunned and speechless! I have always wanted my daughter to know that I would ALWAYS “be there” for her…I walked away, feeling sick. I knew, right then, that although Jehovah may kill me, I would most definitely, without a question, choose my daughter. I started to slowly fade … and the saga continues … but THAT is what opened my eyes very quickly! 🤗
...and while not looking, could you please gently kick that empty bottle of single malt scotch back under the curtain for the all Great and Powerful GB.
This goes for the fundimentalist Baptist too. I was studying the Bible (of all things) and had some serious questions arise due to what seems to be contradictions. The pastor finds out that I consulted with and sister about my concerns. Makes a sudden meeting after church. Voluntarily offers me "his notes" on the subject and immediately pulls every excuse out of the book as to why it may be 6 months before I get the notes but no longer than a year...its been a 1.5 yrs now. All that has happened between then and now is that I gave him a paper with a few more questions that he asked me to write down. When I handed it to him, he said he is not giving me the notes because I will just argue. The more I have studied the Bible the more I realize it is just like President Jefferson said "certain teachings in the Bible are as diamonds in a dung-heap". This "evangelistic" pastor has also asked me why I am still coming...
@@lftxit4reel891 Yes, wasn't that tape recording she put on her channel EPIC? No wonder they don't want those 'meetings' in the back room recorded. PURE HUBRIS and BULLYING!
If you are shopping around for a car and you walk into a dealer, is that dealer going to tell you that you should research 3rd party sources and reviews, uh no they won't, what they say is oh trust me this is the best car on the market trust me. Now in the information age what fool purchases a vehicle that way. But in Jdub land this is how you should make a decision
I find it interesting that god somehow forgot to include 2 pivotal "commandments" 1) Thou shalt not have sexual relations with a child and 2) Thou shalt not own other people. I find the JW terminology very intriguing - they call Pederasty a "sin" not what it is - a crime.
That is correct! If they were true religion they would not hide Pedophiles from the congregation and the authorities. They would report them to protect the children.
@@bigskypioneer1898 Well sin comes first over "crimes" . Not all "crimes" are sin. You cannot equate sin = crime. Crime is a slavery term to keep us obeying man made "laws" to keep us enslaved.
That rant about how apostates should just go away was so childish I laughed out loud. Also, when I was a rebellion teengirl, whenever they had "dear brothers" in a speach I was sitting there thinking: 'not me, I don't have to listen'. 😂
Thank you for your service Lloyd!!! Great video as always. We are waking up and your videos help us immensely! My husband and I watch your videos together at night. It has turned into almost a date night. You have helped us a lot my friend. Keep up the good work.
The bible teaches "Make sure of all things. Keep proving you are in the faith. Make sure it's not the words of men". WT says complete opposite : if you have doubts or queries, it's our way or the highway, tow the line or get marked, shunned or disfellowshipped. There is zero love in this organisation. Only conditional love dependant on one towing WT Printing Corp line. Classic cult methodology.
Haha .. After waking-up it took me no time at all to explain all of it! Such a relief to be real again, and able to look forward! They spew pure garbage.
@@Gail_ Hi, If you are referring to me Gail... I was a slow waker upper! haha I thought for years I was in the wrong! But in 2010 with the "this gerneration will not pass away' failure, they made up the "overlapping generations" craziness! That was the quick begining of the end. Day & night research proved watchtower wrong on all levels! The secret is don't stop short ...go on....prove to yourself if the WW flood is possible, find out everything said about Jesus, is there really an Armageddon coming, keep going until you are satisfied. Cheers!
This is amazing. I have witnessed a handful or more of these talks. My father have even given a couple of these embarrassing talks when I was a child in our old congregation. One was actually so identifying of the persons included that he simply said: "This is regarding all the baptised members of the congregation between 16 and 28 except for brother X and brother Y", so literally giving away their names by excluding the few this talk didn't cover. (That was a talk covering the partying habits of the young people in the congregation at the time, the clothes they wore, their alcohol consumption, their flirting during these parties, they way they danced, the kind of music played, etc. etc. - you know the drill - at some point someone will always find fault with the way you are having fun when you are a young JW). But I have _never_ heard of these talks identifying themselves as "Marking talks". The only thing I remember was the Service Meeting in the old days where the PO would sometimes be giving a talk under the headling "Local Needs", and these talks would practically always appear on the programme a couple of weeks after someone had been publicly reproved. You never had to guess why they had been reproved, because within a week or two the talk "Local needs" would cover a very specific subject, such as drunkenness, lewd conduct of some sort, smoking tobacco (or even "worse" plant material), etc. etc. So in a couple of weeks, the congregation would always know precisely why "brother X" or "sister Y" was reproved a couple of weeks ago). I do, of course, remember the concept of marking someone or to be wary of the bad association these members of the congregation are and the danger to your faith they constitute. But _explicitly identifying the talk_ directly by the words a _"Marking talk"_ is new to me. I left the org around the year 2000 - is this a procedure that has been introduced (or tightened) since then? This is a fantastic video. Thank you both to you Lloyd for bringing this madness out into the light, and also to the brave brother or sister who chose to make a recording of this lunacy and share it with the ExJW community (as this was clearly not the original recording of the meeting made through the main sound equipment, but a recording made in secrecy). Well done. And to you, Lloyd: Really first-class coverage, pointing out some of the most disastrous problems with a talk such as this, Lloyd.
@@1976HNRK Yea, I figured it'd been said somewhere else (didn't spend time looking) and haven't looked deeply into Orwell's stuff (I wasted 20 years in dubtown) although I hear him quoted all the time. But in that movie series I love when the harp plays after it's quoted.
I couldn’t help but feel like what the elders are doing here is a form of gaslighting. They want to keep the congregation from looking to outside sources to find answers, they are discounting this brother’s feelings of doubt. They basically have to hold you down until you agree with them, and if you don’t they cut you off. My ex-husband (still a JW) would do similar things in order to get me to go along with whatever he said, so I am very familiar with this form of abuse. I’ve been out about 6 years, and I never considered them to be a cult until now.
I agree with you Lloyd, no activist would continue to put up with all the s#%+ and abuse, if they didn’t sincerely care about the rank & file JW’s. (42:00 minutes in). I was one of them! Thank you, again, I will never say it enough, for all the well thought out Rebuttals, interviews & research, it is truly appreciated! Love your library! Oh, the irony of It all! ☺️👏👏👏👏
The new camera angle is great. The books look very good in the display cabinet with the lighting well done. Great to see Christopher Hitchens watching over it all.
I'm an atheist now, but using biblical logic still gives a reason to help people wake up from this abusive organization. Proverbs 3:27: "Do not withhold good from those to whom you should give it if it is within your power to help." NWT That's why "apostates" don't go away. We love our "neighbors" as ourselves, and we want to help people the way we would desire to be helped if we were in the same state of mental captivity.
It's a peek again into the tattle tale atmosphere of JWs. Always be ready to assume your brother is doing something wrong. I haven't been to a meeting in 12 years and I'd honestly forgotten two things: they love to think badly of each other and they really cherry-pick that Bible. The angry reaction when I asked questions was another big step out.
It's really interesting that you brought up that being in a romantic relationship with a "worldly" person is not a disfellowshipping offense. As I've written before, this was the circumstance that led to my leaving the jws. When I said that to our presiding overseer, he replied "It is in MY congregation and I'll see to it that you are df'ed". That was it for me. I finally realized at age 25 that these were just a bunch of men, making rules up as they went along. After coming within inches of suicide, instead I just decided I'd never set foot in a Kingdom Hall again. I'm glad l missed the marking talk that I'm sure he gave after I left and am even more glad I stumbled upon your videos over 20 years later. The fear of Armageddon and what watchtower could do to me are long behind me now, but life is still a day to day struggle after what I went through as it is with so many ex-jws. Keep up the good work, Lloyd. You are literally saving lives.
Unfreakingbelieavable! The man giving the talk makes it sound like people shouldn't be afraid to discuss their doubts with the elders but they should! They don't want to answer anyone's doubts they want them to tell on themselves so they can mark or dissfellowship them! That is so deceiving.
"For me, there are no answers, only questions, and I am grateful that the questions go on and on. I don't look for an answer because I don't think there is one. I'm very glad to be the bearer of a question." P. L. Travers “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” George Orwell, 1984 “The best books... are those that tell you what you know already.” George Orwell, 1984
Thankyou Lloyd. It is so important to expose the cruel practices of this organisation. A close friend had a marking talk about them. It was underhand and ultimately led to them leaving. Same thing, had questions that the elders couldn't answer, so they were thrown under the bus.
So someone has doubts, and could be worried about taking their concerns to the elders..... Well is it a surprise? Instead of asking them what do they need to regain spiritual health, they publicly humiliate that person in front of their support structure and in effect cut them off from the congregation. Why would they stick around? I had a similar thing happen to me. I walked out the door and never looked back! Ps bookcase is looking great!
I never looked forward to the "local needs" talk. It was either a talk that made you feel bad that you weren't doing enough in the religion or one that ended up with someone being marked, reproved, or disfellowshipped. For the latter, there was often a correlation between the topic discussed and the person who was reproved, etc. It was hard not to notice! Lloyd, thank you for all the time and work you have put into your videos! You have answered a lot of my questions! Best wishes to you and your family!
Abusers keep the necessary things away from their victims to keep and maintain control. Knowledge is power. Any truth can and should be defended, not avoided.
Me and my wife experienced a very similar talk in our congregation in Slovenia. We were earnestly questioning the 1914 theology and dates connected with the destruction of Jerusalem. It looks like a pattern. If you are only asking hard questions, they don't have enough evidence to disfellowship you, so what they can do to "protect" the congregation is to mark you. The effect is essentially the same.
Claiming to care about truth while promoting preemptive shunning over honest dialogue. Feels bad man. This is not what a truth seeking enterprise looks like.
Comes at the right time, thx! Got "cancelled" by a friend, she told me I'm clearly clever enough to understand the truth, but Jehovah only likes the meek.
That is why I try to keep up with your videos Lloyd, it is a way to help others. Usually, I talk with ones who have just left and there have been a few active JW with doubts. Who I am also concerned about are the people JW try to convert. I am more active in giving info about JW to people who are not JW, helping people I talk to so they can protect themselves from joining JW, actually any cult. In turn I believe they will pass on the information to people they know. I have found out that most people I talk to have no idea anything about JW.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. The general public must he warned about this seemingly harmless group of people wandering around your neighborhoods, standing and sitting near carts directing non believers to a website. They are eventually, and wholeheartedly dangerous spiritually, mentally and sometimes physically. Again, thank you!
I find it rather ironical that he asks apostates to just go away when the JWs are the ones hounding us by continually knocking on our doors! Apostates don't knock on JWs doors peddling our message of free thinking.
I told my mom i will never be back. She actually respects it. But mainly because she know's I'm right. Between the child abuse cover ups. And my own personal experience with the elders which was domestic abuse. And then just how so much has changed. It isn't the truth. They are now following man. Not god or his son.
If faith is like a boat and doubts or questions are like leaks in your boat, and elders see that you are struggling to float, then they should help you patch up the leaks -not tell you to ignore the leaks until you sink and then call you a son of the devil and take your family away. Unless they don’t know the answers, or there are no convincing answers that prove without a doubt what they are saying is true. Then having no faith in them or their theories is only logical. Thank you Loyd for being there for people who have questions and want answers.
This talk wasn´t very helpful for any doubting person, it was just a threat like "if you have doubts and our answers don´t make sense, we´ll punish you. And don´t dare to listen to anybody else than us." The marking seems just like giving them a little taste of what shunning will be like to make them fall back in line and to keep others in line.
This is the most blatant and eye opening video you have ever done. I quite enjoyed the content and it solidifies my decision not to return amoungst other reasons of course.
How ironic at the Tuesday meeting just gone there was a similar talk warning the congregation about a possible apostle (me) and to exercise caution. My name was not used I was told simply because I threatened legal action if they used my name without my permission. Now I know why they were marking me crack up I never knew such a thing even existed... Man they must be desperate hahaha
Love how they misunderstand the greak origins of the word Apostate : Middle English: from ecclesiastical Latin apostata, from Greek apostatēs ‘deserter, runaway slave, apostate’. Love it "runaway slave" it is!
As always, Thank you for breaking this propaganda down. The injustice in all this makes me angry .... to see how they seek to control your every reaction and thought. It is pretty gross.
Being unsure of your treatment by the elders makes you weak... Elders publicly call you out without "naming you, but reveal enough detail so that everyone is gossiping about you. I can't imagine why anyone might be worried about approaching them. It would be like someone who doubts the Nazi regime approaching the Gestapo with those doubts. I have to say, I haven't heard of this happening since the 70's and early 80's. This speech is something that explicitly "marks" the Watchtower organization as a cult.
I am so happy about all this information! You are exposing., I was a JW for 24 years. I am impressed with how everything you speak about regarding the JW cult is so true. I saw all the things you speak about, while I was a JW. I left in 1995.
This talk.... If anyone was actually listening to what was being said should have made them very uncomfortable to listen too, When my little sister was a baby she would fall asleep during the convention and meeting however when people clapped she would wake up and clap right along..... it was pretty funny.... the majority of the witnesses hear Jehovah, Jesus and organization and that is it they clap and agree without even thinking to what was actually said.
"leave it to the elders to discipline"...a grown ass adult, that should be allowed to make their own decisions as long as they aren't breaking the law. Pfft! Discipline. This is hilarious.
I am glad I didnt go any further with the WT,after the ARC....could not live in a mental prison like this, not being able to freely speak, without being marked, or called apostate..no thankyou....
Your office is lovely...you are doing important work...thank you for that...it helps people that you couldn’t even imagine...even a grandmother from Texas!
Wait... how to destroy a corporation? And... how to destroy a business? And... how to destroy a marriage? Isn’t JW.borg on the Internet? You heard the man- DO NOT GO THERE!
Some people stay in the organization because they don't want to lose their family and friends! Some get reinstated to be with family but lead a double life!
@@tammibacon2281 I tried and I couldn't do it. Once I really researched it, it was game over. I sure get it though, and don't begrudge anyone for their choices.
@@jakejames4142 I don't criticize anyone for staying or going back. It's extremely difficult for some when you have family, spouse or children in the organization. My older sister is still JW, we used to be close but not anymore because elders tell her to stay away from me. We talk occasionally but not JW stuff. She's not a bad person she's just misled. Many bad things have happened to her but she keeps silent. 😔
@@tammibacon2281 I'm sorry for you and your sister and your situation Tammi. I hope she wakes up. I've got 2 brothers in and a wife who is on the way out but hanging onto it for dear life. It's tough but I'd rather this than still bring a part of something I believe is harmful.
One of my favorite recent movies was "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" with Gary Oldman. At one point, Oldman's character says that at one point he realized that "Karla" (the fictitious head of the KGB) could be defeated because he was a fanatic. As Oldman stated, "all fanatics harbor a secret doubt." The fanaticism is a reaction in order to hide that doubt. It's the beginning of the end for the fanatic if the secret doubt can be acknowledged. It's a slow process that takes patience, but good luck to all of you out there! One wonders about the secret doubts of the GB.
More and more I want to say: JW are apparently 8 terrible, silly, peddling, yet cruel old dodos who's got over 8 milion helpless toys to play with. It is quite agonising to watch this from the outside. I can't imagine how excruciating must it be when you live in it.
@@Peaceuntoyou338 that's not true it things they have felt for a while now you can't make someone believe something they don't want to these are things they have been questioning
No they are called Inactive. And are in the best position. Go figure, why? - dont have to listen to the slave - dont have to go meetings - dont have to go ministry - still has connections with families - takes blood without notification - can obtain external info without feelin guilty - is not in association with KHall - is not entirely shunned
28:45 I'm glad he used the word "bitter" because that's what my JW visitor today said critics on the internet were. Proof he was repeating the JW teaching. I said "I'm not surprised they'd be bitter considering how they'd been treated".
I have never spoken to anyone (in much detail) about why I left (and was consequently disfellowshipped) before. All I've ever said is that I stopped believing. This was 1993, before the internet - before online apostasy! The reason I stopped believing was quite simple: things just didn't add up. I didn't need apostates to spell it out to me. I wasn't even aware of such literature as R.Franz's "A crisis of conscience". All I needed was the WT's own literature and the silly things that were being said in the congregation.
I so admire people who were able to see things that didn’t make sense. Your critical thinking abilities were still functioning. I wish I would have woken up decades sooner. I am 57 and 4 generations in. Just woke up 3 months ago.
this is my first time hearing about marking talks. then again I have always been PIMO and always kept contact w the congragation to a minimum *shrug*. Im so glad I never let my fam or anyone pressure me into baptizing
There was a similar talk that set my inner "cult alarm" off some 20 or so years ago. I never went back to another meeting after. Hopefully, this had the same effect on some of the folks attending this meeting
@John Cedars LLOYD! The timing of this video couldn't be more perfect!! I am going through this right now... I developed a relationship with someone non-jw in secret... At the same time also started doing critical-thinking & research & after becoming fully awake, decided to move out of my parents house (I'm 41 - it's about time anyway) & my mom panicked, dad wanted to know why & I told them about my doubt's about the org & faithful slave, etc. The elders are trying to meet with me, but I'm trying to avoid them until I've moved away. But I'm getting bombarded by texts & calls.. It's exhausting & nauseating 😫
Remember that you are free. You are an adult and you have a right to make your own decisions. You are not indebted to them and you don't owe them anything. Ignore and avoid. You have every right and you don't have to feel guilty. You are not doing anything wrong. Everyone will try and make you feel guilty. They are wrong to do that to you.
If your religion expects you to not look any further than that religion....you may be in a cult. There is no way of making sure that you are being deceived by your only source of information!
I admire your zeal John for trying to help those still enslaved in a cult. My mother is still there but is waking up. It is hard for the old ones. But I understand your zeal. We are not trying to draw people unto ourselves or attract followers of our own, but rather, out of love, we cannot bear watching people being hurt and taken advantage of.
I think the saddest thing I get from this is "where are you gonna go if you leave us" when they have created a lifetime of control and self-denial where one really has little options. This is cruel and narcissistic. "It is me and my control or nothing" a cult mentality by definition
This talk is exactly why there are people like myself that are PIMO. There is no escape. I too look for answers within the publications and find only more questions. My wife wants me to talk to the elders but I know what the result of that will be. In her mind I will be snached from the fire as this guy says. I have read too much though. I know this isnt the truth. If it was only the false generation teaching, or only the false 1975 or false 1925 or false 1919 or false 1914 or the made up 607 teaching or the disfellowshipping or the child abuse or the blood issue. Any one of those I would be able to handle on their own. But its all of those. There is no way gods true organization can be wrong so many times. NO WAY!!!
Keep trying with your wife. Maybe encourage her to read the bible herself and see if what she gets is the same as the organisation. I know that's what made me think twice. Absolutely nothing makes sense
The Organization doesn't care about you as a person,as an individual human with personal dreams,hopes and aspirations. You're just another "worker" to do their bidding.
48:00 Llyod I think the issue here is that they don't have 2 witnesses, but rather they just have 1 witness, so they are doing a marking talk based on that, and are unable to DF at this time.
I had 2 elders such as this one. They made a powerpoint presentation on how to not dres to kingdom hall and ministry and show them in kingdom hall. He also gave such arogant talks after that ministry school talks or reading bible. Sisters and brothers were crying sometimes walking of the stage. No exaguration. HE LOVED HIS POWER.
Wow,, That ‘Brutha’ sure was whipping up some fear and paranoia ! ! 😳 I can’t wait to hear your interview of the person who is the focus of this talk. It’s so ironic that it’s the Society’s very own doctrines and literature that caused my questions and doubts, and subsequent Waking Up ! !
In 1999 a pioneer sister went to Woodstock concert. My father in law was gleeful in removing her as a pioneer. He was so happy that he got to exercise his power over her. She did nothing wrong, she was just at a music concert.
This made me physically ill!!! I was screaming at my screen with all the outright LIES, twisting of scripture, and terrorizing that was done in this talk. Great God Almighty this has to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow... impressed by that terrified and terrifying marking talk... This is someone who feels threatened in his power position, and thereby reacts by imposing fear and threatening his congregation members. Nothing of that makes any sense for "helping" the member who has doubts... I feel so sorry for the fearful, kind and honest souls who get preyed upon by this organization... Thank you so much Lloyd, for all the incredible thoughtful, respectful, calm and genuine material. It's truly inspiring for us to keep helping people in positions of opression and fear.
🇺🇸I’d rather have questions without answers than answers that can’t be questioned. 🇬🇧
Maryann Lockwood Right on. 👍
Absolutely!
I did have and got out.
Ron c 🇺🇸wow! It’s been 33 years for me. You’ve got me beat!🇬🇧
That's a good one.
If they only did marking talks for child abusers.
I believe if there is or isnt a law to report it anyway its the moral thing to do its a crime but watchtower company is afraid of lawsuits so in this case it minds its own business
Was thinking the same...
By reporting to the authorities.
Yeh right... cold day in the new system before they would do that. Remember, always sunny in the new world.
If only!
Llyod, I was raised a JW for thirty years and didn’t know that these “marking talks” existed! I faded many years ago, because of lack of belief/faith , but still carried guilt. Your videos have helped me to realize that I made the right choice. Thank you!
jon lopez Neither did I! We had “Local Needs” talks but never a “Marking” talk 😬 super scary!
They just keep getting creepier and creepier.
I joined the organisation 30 years ago and I found out about it when I was privately reproved as an unbaptised publisher. I thought my reproof then was OK felt I "deserved" it not realising I was already that indoctrinated
Ditto
I've never heard them explicitly stated as a "marking" talk. It was apparent from the content of the talk if you were familiar with the situation, but it was usually more sly and addressed as a "local needs" talk.
I asked some honest questions, and even referenced specific articles to an elder, and the only "help" he ever gave me was to say, "It's best if you don't dwell on that." so I showed him an experience in another article where a Catholic priest told someone that and that woke her up. So then I asked him how his answer was any better. The conversation ended really quickly.
Can you tell me the article with the priest? That's genius.
Me too!! I would like to know!
Brilliant... and incredible.
WOW !!! How funny their own words are used against themselves. Great point.
Have you got the ref to that article please, I need it
This is a vile and intentional destruction of a person's reputation. Truly disgusting. I'm so angry right now. We 'apostates' don't just go away because our beloved relatives are being held hostage, mentally! This 'talk' is an excellent example of how they operate. 😡 Great job Lloyd 👍
So a congregant in an adult consensual relationship is sinning but child molesters are swept under the rug. Sounds about right. 🤦🏼♀️
"Already, we're in la-la-land. What an extraordinary individual this is." Haha! Oh goodness, Lloyd I always really enjoy your videos. I've been out for 7 years and you still constantly help me feel like I'm not crazy.
We,v got freedom of choice,,, get a balance,, come back,,, please do come.back,,,, dont miss out on liveing forever, in paradise,,, on earth please come back,
I don’t believe that the elders are true believers. There’s no way they can all swallow this BS! They love power and it’s the only power the window washers have in their lives.
We had a close friend whose wife pressured him for years to become an elder. She wrote all of his talks for him because he had no interest. He'd tell dirty jokes at work and lead a double life. He became an elder a few years ago and changed overnight. The power went to his head. He began harrassing us to stop talking to our children. When I told him about the UN, he asked what year that was. I told him and hoped that he would look it up. I knew that even if he did, he wouldn't give up that power. It's the only thing that he had ever had position in. He's a sad little man. He and his wife have shunned their children for over 15 years and don't know their grandchildren.
Meryl Barnes Oh my God!!!!
@@mannixj.michel9055 I believe that because they don't talk to any of their children and grandchildren, it made them angry that my children faded, but we still had a close family.
I honestly believe none of them believe it they are all corrupt.
Sorry but I have to say that that is an ignorant statement. There must be elders out there like you describe but there are many that are genuinely good but misguided people. My father for example is a good and loving man who got the truth when he was young and just made it his life. I remember my mum telling me that when he would come home from elders meetings he would curl up in bed and hide, just from all the pressure and stress it took to do that job (that he did as a volunteer, gave up his time with family and recreation). He didn't like being an elder but he did it for others, not himself. Even though I'm out now and can see the religion clearly for the horrible organisation that it is, I still am not bitter against my family and especially my father. I can't agree that elders are part of the conspiracy, that they do it for power and don't believe it's the truth. I feel pity for all these people that are primarily good, that give themselves entirely to a useless and harmful cause.
That marking talk just marked them as a manipulative controlling cult.
I was marked three years ago for falling in love with a man who was not baptised in the religion they told me I couldn’t even speak to him in the hall. I said go to hell I’ll talk to who I want to. My family and I were shunned in the congregation too, I got threat letters from elders wives. All of my friends and. Family still don’t talk to me other than my parents who left with me. My parents were shunned too for not shunning me! Needless to say we left and I’m now happily married to the “worldly man” and we have a beautiful son together. 5th generation in and 1st out.
Wow what a beautiful ending for u. So happy u found happiness n u still have your parents. Many jw marriages don't work out. No guarantee marrying a jw is going to lead to a happy life. I know many that had failed but they just dwell on marrying in the lord (same faith). My bro did so n had 2 failed marriages. My sisters qst marriage failed. But as I said, just personally I know of heaps more n some just separate bc they can't get a scriptural divorse. funny how worldly people r deemed bad people. But in fact they can be the kindest loving people.
Most of the apostates I've been watching, have been far more loving then the Elders.
@@kevinwarren1576 👍✌
@@kevinwarren1576 its neither satan's organisation or Gods organisation. It's a manmade organisation, same as any other religion. Only difference between them is that some religions are crazier and more cult-like than others. Calling JW satanic is in my opinion an unhelpful way of demonising JWs. We're all human at the end of the day, and labeling whole groups of people as either good or evil isnt a healthy way of looking at people.
@@kevinwarren1576 I'm an atheist and was born with atheist parents. My partner is ex Muslim. JWs have things bad, but I think you are mistaken if you think they are the worst of what world religions have to offer. In many countries in the middle east, apostasy and blasphemy is punishable by death under the law. Islam, as far as I know, is the largest abomination to human freedom today, both in the numbers that follow it, and the laws and practices such as female genital mutilation, forced marriages, kidnappings etc that happen. However, I'm sure that history is rich with religious fanaticism that makes modern Islam look like a nothing bad at all. All religions are bad, just some are worse than others and they all need to be understood in relation to their social context and cultures etc. Its very interesting, which is why I enjoy these videos and discussions.
I say all religions are bad, because they are all build upon falsehoods and manipulations. Buddhism, from what I know, is the least responsible for this, as it doesn't make sweeping statements about magical men in the sky or any other such grand assumptions not based upon empirical evidence. Even then, they say that resurrection is a thing... without any evidence. All religions are about mind control and having a monopoly over their version of the truth and pushing their version of the truth on as many people as possible.
@@kevinwarren1576 Thanks. It's good to keep busy. I used to spend a lot of time looking into ex Muslim content because my partner was leaving her family religion a few years ago. Over time, I found the topic just too depressing and harrowing to even deal with as an observer. I quite enjoy exJW stuff though. It seems a much more milder form of stupidity and ignorance in comparison to the horrors of islam.
@@kevinwarren1576 Loads. In sheer numbers Islam and Christianity in general has done more harm. Theocracies are terrible.
It’s AMAZING that even one year ago I totally would have bought into that talk 😬 THANK YOU SO MUCH, Lloyd, for helping me to wake up! Job well done! Keep on keeping on🤗!
I made a comment during the broadcast that it's amazing looking back how it can open your eyes even wider! Because you realize how you had swallowed this Grotesque Bull$h1t (GB) hook, line and sinker.
It's scary, coz i have no idea howto help someone who isn't already appalled by this talk. I'm not a psychiatrist, where would we even start?
Along with roidroid's comments, I guess the question begs to be answered; what exactly was it that woke you up in the past year?
GB NoMore A myriad of things…what started my waking up was that my 17 year old daughter who is not baptized and lives with her inactive JW dad (bad scene) was having a lot of mental health issues. I wanted to support her in some of her choices that weren’t exactly JW friendly. After a lengthy discussion with my “close” JW friend, she asked, “Well, who do you choose? Jehovah or your daughter?” I was stunned and speechless! I have always wanted my daughter to know that I would ALWAYS “be there” for her…I walked away, feeling sick. I knew, right then, that although Jehovah may kill me, I would most definitely, without a question, choose my daughter. I started to slowly fade … and the saga continues … but THAT is what opened my eyes very quickly! 🤗
roidroid Unless the person already has some deep seeded, lingering personal doubts, I don’t know if you can really reach them. 😢
I think members in the congregations should mark the ELDERS for not providing adequate spiritual answers
"Don't look at the man behind the curtain, Dorthy."
...and while not looking, could you please gently kick that empty bottle of single malt scotch back under the curtain for the all Great and Powerful GB.
@@georgepenn583 Oh, that was great. lol
6:26 Anyone who is not acting the status quo of the local congregation's culture will be psychologically and socially abused.
Married outside faith elders came to see me told me I should break it off
This goes for the fundimentalist Baptist too.
I was studying the Bible (of all things) and had some serious questions arise due to what seems to be contradictions. The pastor finds out that I consulted with and sister about my concerns. Makes a sudden meeting after church. Voluntarily offers me "his notes" on the subject and immediately pulls every excuse out of the book as to why it may be 6 months before I get the notes but no longer than a year...its been a 1.5 yrs now. All that has happened between then and now is that I gave him a paper with a few more questions that he asked me to write down. When I handed it to him, he said he is not giving me the notes because I will just argue.
The more I have studied the Bible the more I realize it is just like President Jefferson said "certain teachings in the Bible are as diamonds in a dung-heap".
This "evangelistic" pastor has also asked me why I am still coming...
Now if any "marking" talk needs to go viral, it is definitely this one!...Let's make it happen Gang! 👊💪👍
If you haven’t seen our US VERSION OF THIS VERY TOPIC
AFTER WATCHING, here go to ALI’s BIG TOE
YOU’ll BE SHOCKED!
They quote the very scripture that applies to them!
@@lftxit4reel891 Yes, wasn't that tape recording she put on her channel EPIC? No wonder they don't want those 'meetings' in the back room recorded. PURE HUBRIS and BULLYING!
@@lftxit4reel891 Yes I watched Ali's Big TOE's video on her judicial committee. These elders seem to worship the Faithful & Discreet Slave
@@lftxit4reel891
Ali brought the ♨ heat to those 4 bullies! 😆
Girl power! 👠👒👜
If you are shopping around for a car and you walk into a dealer, is that dealer going to tell you that you should research 3rd party sources and reviews, uh no they won't, what they say is oh trust me this is the best car on the market trust me. Now in the information age what fool purchases a vehicle that way. But in Jdub land this is how you should make a decision
Exactly its all about the reviews - esp the bad ones, not on the sellers word
@@justme-on7bn ikr. They only use nonsense!
I stopped going in field service because I knew I was selling a very defective product. An honest sales person would never work for that company.
😂 so true.
Lovely logic here nneely613. I will be using this on my family.
But they won't mark Pedophiles!
I find it interesting that god somehow forgot to include 2 pivotal "commandments" 1) Thou shalt not have sexual relations with a child and 2) Thou shalt not own other people. I find the JW terminology very intriguing - they call Pederasty a "sin" not what it is - a crime.
@@bigskypioneer1898
So either God is flawed, or the commandments were created by man.
That is correct! If they were true religion they would not hide Pedophiles from the congregation and the authorities. They would report them to protect the children.
@@bigskypioneer1898 Well sin comes first over "crimes" . Not all "crimes" are sin. You cannot equate sin = crime. Crime is a slavery term to keep us obeying man made "laws" to keep us enslaved.
That rant about how apostates should just go away was so childish I laughed out loud.
Also, when I was a rebellion teengirl, whenever they had "dear brothers" in a speach I was sitting there thinking: 'not me, I don't have to listen'. 😂
The most crazy evil cult in the world,Am glad I came out with my family.😭😭
Esther Harrison ONE OF THE MOST......THERES OTHER TERRIBLE CULTS OUT THERE
well done esther. they are control freaks.
'If there's one thing Jws love talking about, it's what other JW's are doing in their private lives. '
Truer words have never been spoken.
Just saw your comment ... I made a similar one .. that line made me chuckle!
Thank you for your service Lloyd!!! Great video as always. We are waking up and your videos help us immensely!
My husband and I watch your videos together at night. It has turned into almost a date night. You have helped us a lot my friend. Keep up the good work.
LOL!! Lloyd is now a marriage therapist too??👍
Kaitlyn West I think that’s cute! 🥰. Bring out the popcorn! Wish I could say the same about my PIMI husband.
Can't believe I was actually a full-fledged member of this lunacy at one time in my life.
Marking talks for people who 'have doubts' ...... But they refuse to do that for child abuse accusations... Says it all!!
The bible teaches "Make sure of all things. Keep proving you are in the faith. Make sure it's not the words of men". WT says complete opposite : if you have doubts or queries, it's our way or the highway, tow the line or get marked, shunned or disfellowshipped. There is zero love in this organisation. Only conditional love dependant on one towing WT Printing Corp line. Classic cult methodology.
Haha .. After waking-up it took me no time at all to explain all of it! Such a relief to be real again, and able to look forward! They spew pure garbage.
So happy for you. Just curious, how did you wake up?
@@Gail_ Hi, If you are referring to me Gail... I was a slow waker upper! haha I thought for years I was in the wrong! But in 2010 with the "this gerneration will not pass away' failure, they made up the "overlapping generations" craziness! That was the quick begining of the end. Day & night research proved watchtower wrong on all levels! The secret is don't stop short ...go on....prove to yourself if the WW flood is possible, find out everything said about Jesus, is there really an Armageddon coming, keep going until you are satisfied. Cheers!
@@clarity2478 Thanks for responding. I thought it was me too, that I couldn't explain things. Glad to be out.
This was so infuriating to listen to. Them asking for blind obedience and trying to make people feel bad for listening to their own common sense.
This is amazing. I have witnessed a handful or more of these talks. My father have even given a couple of these embarrassing talks when I was a child in our old congregation. One was actually so identifying of the persons included that he simply said: "This is regarding all the baptised members of the congregation between 16 and 28 except for brother X and brother Y", so literally giving away their names by excluding the few this talk didn't cover. (That was a talk covering the partying habits of the young people in the congregation at the time, the clothes they wore, their alcohol consumption, their flirting during these parties, they way they danced, the kind of music played, etc. etc. - you know the drill - at some point someone will always find fault with the way you are having fun when you are a young JW).
But I have _never_ heard of these talks identifying themselves as "Marking talks". The only thing I remember was the Service Meeting in the old days where the PO would sometimes be giving a talk under the headling "Local Needs", and these talks would practically always appear on the programme a couple of weeks after someone had been publicly reproved. You never had to guess why they had been reproved, because within a week or two the talk "Local needs" would cover a very specific subject, such as drunkenness, lewd conduct of some sort, smoking tobacco (or even "worse" plant material), etc. etc. So in a couple of weeks, the congregation would always know precisely why "brother X" or "sister Y" was reproved a couple of weeks ago).
I do, of course, remember the concept of marking someone or to be wary of the bad association these members of the congregation are and the danger to your faith they constitute. But _explicitly identifying the talk_ directly by the words a _"Marking talk"_ is new to me. I left the org around the year 2000 - is this a procedure that has been introduced (or tightened) since then?
This is a fantastic video. Thank you both to you Lloyd for bringing this madness out into the light, and also to the brave brother or sister who chose to make a recording of this lunacy and share it with the ExJW community (as this was clearly not the original recording of the meeting made through the main sound equipment, but a recording made in secrecy). Well done. And to you, Lloyd: Really first-class coverage, pointing out some of the most disastrous problems with a talk such as this, Lloyd.
One JW told me that its all guilt on me when i have doubts, because the organization warns you do not read and watch critical material
HaHaHa! They just reworded that line from the matrix movie to fit WhOrg cult life..."Ignorance is BLISS!"
You better douse yourself, all that gaslighting and you may catch fire.
@@gbnomore3918 Actually that sentence is from George Orwell`"1984"
@@1976HNRK Yea, I figured it'd been said somewhere else (didn't spend time looking) and haven't looked deeply into Orwell's stuff (I wasted 20 years in dubtown) although I hear him quoted all the time. But in that movie series I love when the harp plays after it's quoted.
@@amandahuginkiss4098 LOL, I might lead people away from Ford, used to work on them. 🙌😁
In this case the sharks have grown legs, come out of the water ran up the beach and are posing as life guards.
😂
😂😂😂😂😂
I couldn’t help but feel like what the elders are doing here is a form of gaslighting. They want to keep the congregation from looking to outside sources to find answers, they are discounting this brother’s feelings of doubt. They basically have to hold you down until you agree with them, and if you don’t they cut you off. My ex-husband (still a JW) would do similar things in order to get me to go along with whatever he said, so I am very familiar with this form of abuse. I’ve been out about 6 years, and I never considered them to be a cult until now.
Narcissists.
Narcissists
Narcissists (repetitive for emphasis).
I agree with you Lloyd, no activist would continue to put up with all the s#%+ and abuse, if they didn’t sincerely care about the rank & file JW’s. (42:00 minutes in). I was one of them! Thank you, again, I will never say it enough, for all the well thought out Rebuttals, interviews & research, it is truly appreciated! Love your library! Oh, the irony of It all! ☺️👏👏👏👏
Another reason why "we won't go away" is because we were Jehovah's Witnesses for crying out loud! We've been trained never never ever to go away!
He seems like he's really afraid of apostates. WT must be having some serious JW loss issues.
The new camera angle is great. The books look very good in the display cabinet with the lighting well done. Great to see Christopher Hitchens watching over it all.
I'm an atheist now, but using biblical logic still gives a reason to help people wake up from this abusive organization.
Proverbs 3:27: "Do not withhold good from those to whom you should give it if it is within your power to help." NWT
That's why "apostates" don't go away. We love our "neighbors" as ourselves, and we want to help people the way we would desire to be helped if we were in the same state of mental captivity.
It's a peek again into the tattle tale atmosphere of JWs. Always be ready to assume your brother is doing something wrong. I haven't been to a meeting in 12 years and I'd honestly forgotten two things: they love to think badly of each other and they really cherry-pick that Bible. The angry reaction when I asked questions was another big step out.
Gossip, gossip, gossip.
It's really interesting that you brought up that being in a romantic relationship with a "worldly" person is not a disfellowshipping offense. As I've written before, this was the circumstance that led to my leaving the jws. When I said that to our presiding overseer, he replied "It is in MY congregation and I'll see to it that you are df'ed". That was it for me. I finally realized at age 25 that these were just a bunch of men, making rules up as they went along. After coming within inches of suicide, instead I just decided I'd never set foot in a Kingdom Hall again. I'm glad l missed the marking talk that I'm sure he gave after I left and am even more glad I stumbled upon your videos over 20 years later. The fear of Armageddon and what watchtower could do to me are long behind me now, but life is still a day to day struggle after what I went through as it is with so many ex-jws. Keep up the good work, Lloyd. You are literally saving lives.
Unfreakingbelieavable! The man giving the talk makes it sound like people shouldn't be afraid to discuss their doubts with the elders but they should! They don't want to answer anyone's doubts they want them to tell on themselves so they can mark or dissfellowship them! That is so deceiving.
"For me, there are no answers, only questions, and I am grateful that the questions go on and on. I don't look for an answer because I don't think there is one. I'm very glad to be the bearer of a question." P. L. Travers
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
George Orwell, 1984
“The best books... are those that tell you what you know already.”
George Orwell, 1984
Think for yourself and make up your own mind 🤯 if you have doubts do your own research for the truth
♥️LovetheShunned♥️
Really WT gives you no credit for having a brain.
Christine Man hahaha
YES! YES! YES! 🤗
Thankyou Lloyd. It is so important to expose the cruel practices of this organisation. A close friend had a marking talk about them. It was underhand and ultimately led to them leaving. Same thing, had questions that the elders couldn't answer, so they were thrown under the bus.
So someone has doubts, and could be worried about taking their concerns to the elders..... Well is it a surprise? Instead of asking them what do they need to regain spiritual health, they publicly humiliate that person in front of their support structure and in effect cut them off from the congregation. Why would they stick around? I had a similar thing happen to me. I walked out the door and never looked back!
Ps bookcase is looking great!
They better watch out...sisters will be doing it for themselves!
The pharisees where sticklers for humiliating others..
I never looked forward to the "local needs" talk. It was either a talk that made you feel bad that you weren't doing enough in the religion or one that ended up with someone being marked, reproved, or disfellowshipped. For the latter, there was often a correlation between the topic discussed and the person who was reproved, etc. It was hard not to notice!
Lloyd, thank you for all the time and work you have put into your videos! You have answered a lot of my questions! Best wishes to you and your family!
I really like how you have gone about the bunker. It’s just really well done Lloyd. I am really proud to support you. Really great content to.
Abusers keep the necessary things away from their victims to keep and maintain control. Knowledge is power. Any truth can and should be defended, not avoided.
Me and my wife experienced a very similar talk in our congregation in Slovenia. We were earnestly questioning the 1914 theology and dates connected with the destruction of Jerusalem. It looks like a pattern. If you are only asking hard questions, they don't have enough evidence to disfellowship you, so what they can do to "protect" the congregation is to mark you. The effect is essentially the same.
Slovenia? Wow, that's close! It would be great if we could meet up at some point. :)
That would be great. Will contact you via email.
@@LloydEvans an interview with this couple would be awesome!
Claiming to care about truth while promoting preemptive shunning over honest dialogue. Feels bad man. This is not what a truth seeking enterprise looks like.
Well said, sir.
Comes at the right time, thx!
Got "cancelled" by a friend, she told me I'm clearly clever enough to understand the truth, but Jehovah only likes the meek.
This is a great tool they have, they try and induce guilt and self doubt to discourage critical thinking. So glad you have woke up
If no one has told you in the last 30 seconds, I shall say...you are amazing 🙌🏼 thank you for the work and time you put into all your content 👍🏼👌🏼
That is why I try to keep up with your videos Lloyd, it is a way to help others. Usually, I talk with ones who have just left and there have been a few active JW with doubts. Who I am also concerned about are the people JW try to convert. I am more active in giving info about JW to people who are not JW, helping people I talk to so they can protect themselves from joining JW, actually any cult. In turn I believe they will pass on the information to people they know. I have found out that most people I talk to have no idea anything about JW.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. The general public must he warned about this seemingly harmless group of people wandering around your neighborhoods, standing and sitting near carts directing non believers to a website. They are eventually, and wholeheartedly dangerous spiritually, mentally and sometimes physically. Again, thank you!
I find it rather ironical that he asks apostates to just go away when the JWs are the ones hounding us by continually knocking on our doors! Apostates don't knock on JWs doors peddling our message of free thinking.
I told my mom i will never be back. She actually respects it. But mainly because she know's I'm right. Between the child abuse cover ups. And my own personal experience with the elders which was domestic abuse. And then just how so much has changed. It isn't the truth. They are now following man. Not god or his son.
Of course, they never were, as it all always was man-made.
Elders are many things but "lifesaving" is not one of them.
If faith is like a boat and doubts or questions are like leaks in your boat, and elders see that you are struggling to float, then they should help you patch up the leaks -not tell you to ignore the leaks until you sink and then call you a son of the devil and take your family away.
Unless they don’t know the answers, or there are no convincing answers that prove without a doubt what they are saying is true. Then having no faith in them or their theories is only logical.
Thank you Loyd for being there for people who have questions and want answers.
This talk wasn´t very helpful for any doubting person, it was just a threat like "if you have doubts and our answers don´t make sense, we´ll punish you. And don´t dare to listen to anybody else than us."
The marking seems just like giving them a little taste of what shunning will be like to make them fall back in line and to keep others in line.
Absolut richtig.
This is the most blatant and eye opening video you have ever done. I quite enjoyed the content and it solidifies my decision not to return amoungst other reasons of course.
How ironic at the Tuesday meeting just gone there was a similar talk warning the congregation about a possible apostle (me) and to exercise caution.
My name was not used I was told simply because I threatened legal action if they used my name without my permission.
Now I know why they were marking me crack up I never knew such a thing even existed...
Man they must be desperate hahaha
Your facial expressions are gold when this guy is talking hahahaha, keep up the good work .
BTW LLOYD...THE BUNKER LOOKS AMAZING! GREAT JOB! THANK U FOR EVERYTHING SIR!
The desperation of tyrants! Softening up the congregation to accept the upcoming and unpopular disfellowshipping...
Love how they misunderstand the greak origins of the word Apostate :
Middle English: from ecclesiastical Latin apostata, from Greek apostatēs ‘deserter, runaway slave, apostate’.
Love it "runaway slave" it is!
that would make a great T-Shirt!
@@runawayslave1724 very true!
As always, Thank you for breaking this propaganda down. The injustice in all this makes me angry .... to see how they seek to control your every reaction and thought. It is pretty gross.
Being unsure of your treatment by the elders makes you weak... Elders publicly call you out without "naming you, but reveal enough detail so that everyone is gossiping about you. I can't imagine why anyone might be worried about approaching them. It would be like someone who doubts the Nazi regime approaching the Gestapo with those doubts.
I have to say, I haven't heard of this happening since the 70's and early 80's. This speech is something that explicitly "marks" the Watchtower organization as a cult.
The elders are not, "Loving Shepherds," no, but in actuality they are, "Gestapo Enforcers."
He’s identifying these two males in the cong, one has children and seems like other one doesn’t, so I imagine congregation are all guessing who
I am so happy about all this information! You are exposing., I was a JW for 24 years. I am impressed with how everything you speak about regarding the JW cult is so true. I saw all the things you speak about, while I was a JW. I left in 1995.
This talk.... If anyone was actually listening to what was being said should have made them very uncomfortable to listen too,
When my little sister was a baby she would fall asleep during the convention and meeting however when people clapped she would wake up and clap right along..... it was pretty funny....
the majority of the witnesses hear Jehovah, Jesus and organization and that is it they clap and agree without even thinking to what was actually said.
"leave it to the elders to discipline"...a grown ass adult, that should be allowed to make their own decisions as long as they aren't breaking the law. Pfft! Discipline. This is hilarious.
Unless you're a Jehovah's witness
I am glad I didnt go any further with the WT,after the ARC....could not live in a mental prison like this, not being able to freely speak, without being marked, or called apostate..no thankyou....
Love your new set and the color scheme you chose
Once you're marked it's hard to recover.
Recover? unlikely às the gossip mill never really let's go.
Thank God for the internet!! I wish I had it sooner.
Your office is lovely...you are doing important work...thank you for that...it helps people that you couldn’t even imagine...even a grandmother from Texas!
Yes I think he will have a lot of grandmothers following him from around the world.
Heather Adams appears that way..
They should work so hard to keep child abusers out of org instead of protecting them.
Wait... how to destroy a corporation?
And... how to destroy a business?
And... how to destroy a marriage?
Isn’t JW.borg on the Internet? You heard the man- DO NOT GO THERE!
Maybe we don't go away because the org is holding our friends and family hostage.
Some people stay in the organization because they don't want to lose their family and friends! Some get reinstated to be with family but lead a double life!
@@tammibacon2281 I tried and I couldn't do it. Once I really researched it, it was game over. I sure get it though, and don't begrudge anyone for their choices.
@@jakejames4142 I don't criticize anyone for staying or going back. It's extremely difficult for some when you have family, spouse or children in the organization. My older sister is still JW, we used to be close but not anymore because elders tell her to stay away from me. We talk occasionally but not JW stuff. She's not a bad person she's just misled. Many bad things have happened to her but she keeps silent. 😔
@@tammibacon2281 I'm sorry for you and your sister and your situation Tammi. I hope she wakes up. I've got 2 brothers in and a wife who is on the way out but hanging onto it for dear life. It's tough but I'd rather this than still bring a part of something I believe is harmful.
Jake, what an astute observation and so very true!
The bunker is looking awesome Lloyd!
One of my favorite recent movies was "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" with Gary Oldman. At one point, Oldman's character says that at one point he realized that "Karla" (the fictitious head of the KGB) could be defeated because he was a fanatic. As Oldman stated, "all fanatics harbor a secret doubt." The fanaticism is a reaction in order to hide that doubt. It's the beginning of the end for the fanatic if the secret doubt can be acknowledged. It's a slow process that takes patience, but good luck to all of you out there! One wonders about the secret doubts of the GB.
I experienced being marked....that they wouldn't have a long conversation at the meetings! They would give me real quick hi and bye real fast.
More and more I want to say: JW are apparently 8 terrible, silly, peddling, yet cruel old dodos who's got over 8 milion helpless toys to play with. It is quite agonising to watch this from the outside. I can't imagine how excruciating must it be when you live in it.
People who have doubts are not apostates
Apostates have no more doubts
No they are not apostates..Christ did'nt call Thomas an apostate when he doubted....
But a good majority of people who doubt are getting their information from apostates!
@@Peaceuntoyou338 that's not true it things they have felt for a while now you can't make someone believe something they don't want to these are things they have been questioning
No they are called Inactive. And are in the best position. Go figure, why?
- dont have to listen to the slave
- dont have to go meetings
- dont have to go ministry
- still has connections with families
- takes blood without notification
- can obtain external info without feelin guilty
- is not in association with KHall
- is not entirely shunned
28:45 I'm glad he used the word "bitter" because that's what my JW visitor today said critics on the internet were.
Proof he was repeating the JW teaching. I said "I'm not surprised they'd be bitter considering how they'd been treated".
I have never spoken to anyone (in much detail) about why I left (and was consequently disfellowshipped) before. All I've ever said is that I stopped believing. This was 1993, before the internet - before online apostasy! The reason I stopped believing was quite simple: things just didn't add up. I didn't need apostates to spell it out to me. I wasn't even aware of such literature as R.Franz's "A crisis of conscience". All I needed was the WT's own literature and the silly things that were being said in the congregation.
I so admire people who were able to see things that didn’t make sense. Your critical thinking abilities were still functioning. I wish I would have woken up decades sooner. I am 57 and 4 generations in. Just woke up 3 months ago.
@@cicelyryan4402 Well, you've woken up now - so make the most of the rest of your life. Have fun...
this is my first time hearing about marking talks. then again I have always been PIMO and always kept contact w the congragation to a minimum *shrug*. Im so glad I never let my fam or anyone pressure me into baptizing
There was a similar talk that set my inner "cult alarm" off some 20 or so years ago. I never went back to another meeting after. Hopefully, this had the same effect on some of the folks attending this meeting
@John Cedars LLOYD! The timing of this video couldn't be more perfect!! I am going through this right now... I developed a relationship with someone non-jw in secret... At the same time also started doing critical-thinking & research & after becoming fully awake, decided to move out of my parents house (I'm 41 - it's about time anyway) & my mom panicked, dad wanted to know why & I told them about my doubt's about the org & faithful slave, etc. The elders are trying to meet with me, but I'm trying to avoid them until I've moved away. But I'm getting bombarded by texts & calls.. It's exhausting & nauseating 😫
Remember that you are free. You are an adult and you have a right to make your own decisions. You are not indebted to them and you don't owe them anything. Ignore and avoid. You have every right and you don't have to feel guilty. You are not doing anything wrong. Everyone will try and make you feel guilty. They are wrong to do that to you.
If your religion expects you to not look any further than that religion....you may be in a cult. There is no way of making sure that you are being deceived by your only source of information!
I too was a ministerial servant, and got to the point where i knew what i was teaching others was wrong. That went on for several months.
I admire your zeal John for trying to help those still enslaved in a cult. My mother is still there but is waking up. It is hard for the old ones. But I understand your zeal. We are not trying to draw people unto ourselves or attract followers of our own, but rather, out of love, we cannot bear watching people being hurt and taken advantage of.
I think the saddest thing I get from this is "where are you gonna go if you leave us" when they have created a lifetime of control and self-denial where one really has little options. This is cruel and narcissistic. "It is me and my control or nothing" a cult mentality by definition
This talk is exactly why there are people like myself that are PIMO. There is no escape. I too look for answers within the publications and find only more questions. My wife wants me to talk to the elders but I know what the result of that will be. In her mind I will be snached from the fire as this guy says. I have read too much though. I know this isnt the truth. If it was only the false generation teaching, or only the false 1975 or false 1925 or false 1919 or false 1914 or the made up 607 teaching or the disfellowshipping or the child abuse or the blood issue. Any one of those I would be able to handle on their own. But its all of those. There is no way gods true organization can be wrong so many times. NO WAY!!!
Stay strong. Be true to your own conscious. There is life outside watchtowers xx
Keep trying with your wife. Maybe encourage her to read the bible herself and see if what she gets is the same as the organisation. I know that's what made me think twice. Absolutely nothing makes sense
How are you doing 10 months on?
Nice work Lloyd! Very enjoyable and entertaining as always x
The Organization doesn't care about you as a person,as an individual human with personal dreams,hopes and aspirations. You're just another "worker" to do their bidding.
And contributor to their pockets
@@heatheradams8946 I thought ONLY Christendom was Like that!
48:00 Llyod I think the issue here is that they don't have 2 witnesses, but rather they just have 1 witness, so they are doing a marking talk based on that, and are unable to DF at this time.
I had 2 elders such as this one. They made a powerpoint presentation on how to not dres to kingdom hall and ministry and show them in kingdom hall. He also gave such arogant talks after that ministry school talks or reading bible. Sisters and brothers were crying sometimes walking of the stage. No exaguration. HE LOVED HIS POWER.
This is interesting. They must be really, really afraid of loosing even more members. They sound so desperate.
Wow,, That ‘Brutha’ sure was whipping up some fear and paranoia ! ! 😳 I can’t wait to hear your interview of the person who is the focus of this talk.
It’s so ironic that it’s the Society’s very own doctrines and literature that caused my questions and doubts, and subsequent Waking Up ! !
In 1999 a pioneer sister went to Woodstock concert. My father in law was gleeful in removing her as a pioneer. He was so happy that he got to exercise his power over her. She did nothing wrong, she was just at a music concert.
Bloody hell. If you said 1959 I wouldve understood. Thats terribe!
Apparently this only counts for the brothers, not the sisters. He is only adressing the brothers the whole talk >.
This made me physically ill!!! I was screaming at my screen with all the outright LIES, twisting of scripture, and terrorizing that was done in this talk. Great God Almighty this has to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow... impressed by that terrified and terrifying marking talk... This is someone who feels threatened in his power position, and thereby reacts by imposing fear and threatening his congregation members. Nothing of that makes any sense for "helping" the member who has doubts... I feel so sorry for the fearful, kind and honest souls who get preyed upon by this organization... Thank you so much Lloyd, for all the incredible thoughtful, respectful, calm and genuine material. It's truly inspiring for us to keep helping people in positions of opression and fear.