For those who want to hear it: * 2:35 without flicking * 9:59 with flicking I don't think there's a place in this video that shows what "venting" sounds like, so I'll look for that in another video. This video was really well laid out and clearly described! Even as a non-bassoonist, I learned a lot - excellent pedagogical approach. Thanks so much!
I went 4 years not knowing any of this 💀 My band teacher just gave me the vented notes for the tenor register and I never knew that flicking would improvey tone quality so much! Thank you so much
Flicking is always interesting to me, as someone from the Uk we never learn it, we use venting instead and it's fascinating why two different methodologies arose (not saying one is right or wrong)
Very interesting! This is definitely a “can of worms” topic with so many different perspectives and approaches. In the US, there are also vastly different approaches to flicking. There used to be an old school East/West coast divide where bassoonists on the West coast flicked 100% of the time and bassoonists on the East coast didn’t flick (or vent) hardly at all! Now it’s much more mixed and can’t be divided geographically, but there are certainly different teachings out there! Ultimately there is no right or wrong way, only what works for each one of us in each given context.
@@BuildingaBassoonist That's very interesting! I am an European bassoonist and my teacher have always told me flicking is not correct because it's a technique you use on French system bassoon, and not German system. I have always used venting instead of flicking. Now that I know about flicking I'll try it in my practice to see how it works
@@user-uy9yh8sx5p Very interesting! Clearly there are some different practices out there! Venting is certainly an acceptable and widely-used technique on German system bassoons, but generally not here in the US. I find that I prefer flicking over venting on my Heckel because I don't like the tone quality of venting.
Now I have something to brag to all the low reed players in our wind ensemble! Bassoons: Get the best solos, most complicated fingering, Has the most alternate fingerings, will make you cry. And crap, I got a concert tomorrow, and in a week...
Your videos have been so helpful! I have picked up the bassoon after 20 years of not playing. It’s been a growing humbling experience. I have an instructor but in our lessons we just can’t take the time to go really in depth in a lot of these things. So thank you!
I would consider the whisper key to be a sort of inverse octave key, and the a-e keys are octave keys as they are mostly required for the very high range of the bassoon.
I learned the flicking concept myself and applied it to exercises in my bassoon method books two years ago. Until recently, I didn’t flick that much when playing in bands and orchestras. But I realize now that flicking comes in handy when I study scores carefully. For example, I’ll flick the first of four quarter notes, the first eighth of eighth notes in a set, or a whole note in a measure, but I wouldn’t flick when playing sixteenth-note or thirty-second-note phrases (just too many notes to play in a short space!). Thank you for reminding us that flicking isn’t necessary when playing between half steps. I’ve been doing that a few times. I’ll save myself time and the thumb hassle. (-:
Sometimes it's tricky to flick when the notes are going by so quickly! My general rule is that I will attempt to flick them, but no matter what, as long as the notes are speaking clearly and consistently, I don't get super caught up in the details. :)
This video is really helpful! I was just wondering, if I had to play a lot of different flick notes quickly and staccato, would it be better to flick or vent?
Do I understand it correctly that flicking/venting keys are basically octave keys tuned to sound alright? (beginner with long experience in other woodwinds)
@@BuildingaBassoonist thanks! After som practicing, I believe that I start to get a grip on them. I find that their use sometimes slows down my playing, which I temporily solved by just pitching them “in my head”, like one does on the flute. I need to get better! :-D
As a self-taught beginner bassoonist (1st instrument is oboe) flicking was totally new to me. My problem is that my hand isn't big enough for my thumb to reach the keys without fouling the bottom bflat etc keys. I guess those keys could be lowered, but it would still be a stretch, and the flick keys might also need to be bent closer...
Try rotating your wing joint and long joint so that the left thumb keys are as close together as possible. This is what I do and I have short thumbs and it helps
@@BuildingaBassoonistI only just now saw your reply, sorry. The locking mechanism on my Hűller prevents that, sadly. Any thoughts on the "Jordan key"? Looks logical, though @$1500+ I'm not planning it for my old instrument.
I have couple of reeds with which when I flick the B note in tenor register it starts good, but falls into lower harmonics very quickly after that. No other reed in my collection suffer from that but those two, and I'm wondering if it is I doing something not exactly right. Any suggestion would be appreciated.
If it’s only 2 reeds and you have multiple others that are fine, it seems likely to be a reed issue. Poor reeds can result in poor flick notes (even when you flick correctly). However, do make sure that you’re maintaining a consistent air stream and air support as you play the note and see if that helps. You might just have to vent with those reeds to make them work.
I just started out on the bassoon but immediately I've noticed my middle C and lower C sound the exact same and I'm not sure where the problem is (whisper key doesn't seem to be making a difference at all, sounds like the lower C all the time) and I can really only reach the higher C when I change my embouchure, but then the embouchure feels extremely awkward and I can't play the lower notes with it. I'm playing on an older bassoon, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the instrument itself. I know that flicking helps with playing the note, but I'm not even in the right octave to begin with. If anyone sees this, by chance, could I have some advice on how to find the problem or fix the problem?
When you are flicking the C, at least for me, I think there may be a small change in my embouchure slightly, but not always. It does take practice…and as ALWAYS….make sure you have a very good reed!! It just takes practice to know how to play correctly and what works with your embouchure. You will eventually do it without any trouble and not think about it. Not sure if I explained it very well so maybe get some information off the internet to help you.
@@ericklemm7430 Thank you for the tips, and do you by chance know why some fingering charts show the middle C as the three fingers on the left hand but no indication of a flick note? Is that normal? And I feel like my whisper key does not do anything at all. I can play the higher C (with my weird embouchure) even while pressing down the whisper key. I've checked to see that the pad is blocking the hole and it is. Would that be normal as well?
@@vyingforlife Hello, if you are talking about the C on the first line above the bass clef staff then you don’t want to use the whisper key. You want the whisper key to stay open. You must flick the 4th key above the whisper key at the right time (the beginning of your c note)for that higher c to play correctly. Also make sure you have a reed that is properly made and adjusted so it helps your playing and not hindering you from playing correctly. I hope you have someone that can properly teach you the correct techniques. I hope that answers what you are trying to get answered. Anyway, hope that helps….good luck!
Make sure you are "venting" that higher C! All this means is that you should hold down the key for the entire time you play the note (instead of flicking). The key you should be pressing is the 4th key above the whisper key. If you are holding that key down for the high C and holding the whisper key down for the lower C, then that should help fix the problem.
For those who want to hear it:
* 2:35 without flicking
* 9:59 with flicking
I don't think there's a place in this video that shows what "venting" sounds like, so I'll look for that in another video.
This video was really well laid out and clearly described! Even as a non-bassoonist, I learned a lot - excellent pedagogical approach. Thanks so much!
I went 4 years not knowing any of this 💀 My band teacher just gave me the vented notes for the tenor register and I never knew that flicking would improvey tone quality so much! Thank you so much
Flicking is always interesting to me, as someone from the Uk we never learn it, we use venting instead and it's fascinating why two different methodologies arose (not saying one is right or wrong)
Very interesting! This is definitely a “can of worms” topic with so many different perspectives and approaches. In the US, there are also vastly different approaches to flicking. There used to be an old school East/West coast divide where bassoonists on the West coast flicked 100% of the time and bassoonists on the East coast didn’t flick (or vent) hardly at all! Now it’s much more mixed and can’t be divided geographically, but there are certainly different teachings out there! Ultimately there is no right or wrong way, only what works for each one of us in each given context.
@@BuildingaBassoonist That's very interesting! I am an European bassoonist and my teacher have always told me flicking is not correct because it's a technique you use on French system bassoon, and not German system. I have always used venting instead of flicking. Now that I know about flicking I'll try it in my practice to see how it works
@@user-uy9yh8sx5p Very interesting! Clearly there are some different practices out there! Venting is certainly an acceptable and widely-used technique on German system bassoons, but generally not here in the US. I find that I prefer flicking over venting on my Heckel because I don't like the tone quality of venting.
I agree. My fingering chart just says to hold the key down and I didn't know flicking was a thing till I say this video
Now I have something to brag to all the low reed players in our wind ensemble!
Bassoons: Get the best solos, most complicated fingering, Has the most alternate fingerings, will make you cry.
And crap, I got a concert tomorrow, and in a week...
Your videos have been so helpful! I have picked up the bassoon after 20 years of not playing. It’s been a growing humbling experience. I have an instructor but in our lessons we just can’t take the time to go really in depth in a lot of these things. So thank you!
I’m glad to help! Congrats on returning to the bassoon, how exciting!!
I would consider the whisper key to be a sort of inverse octave key, and the a-e keys are octave keys as they are mostly required for the very high range of the bassoon.
I don't play the bassoon, but now I know how to flick it!
Basically a bassoon master
I learned the flicking concept myself and applied it to exercises in my bassoon method books two years ago. Until recently, I didn’t flick that much when playing in bands and orchestras. But I realize now that flicking comes in handy when I study scores carefully. For example, I’ll flick the first of four quarter notes, the first eighth of eighth notes in a set, or a whole note in a measure, but I wouldn’t flick when playing sixteenth-note or thirty-second-note phrases (just too many notes to play in a short space!).
Thank you for reminding us that flicking isn’t necessary when playing between half steps. I’ve been doing that a few times. I’ll save myself time and the thumb hassle. (-:
Sometimes it's tricky to flick when the notes are going by so quickly! My general rule is that I will attempt to flick them, but no matter what, as long as the notes are speaking clearly and consistently, I don't get super caught up in the details. :)
This video is really helpful! I was just wondering, if I had to play a lot of different flick notes quickly and staccato, would it be better to flick or vent?
Thank you so much for your great explanation about flicking
You are most welcome
This video was so helpful! Thanks again for the awesome video
You’re so welcome!
Thank you for this! Im terrible at flicking and always forget
You’re trying to learn a new skill that is difficult to incorporate! It takes time!
Do I understand it correctly that flicking/venting keys are basically octave keys tuned to sound alright? (beginner with long experience in other woodwinds)
No - the keys themselves don’t control the pitch of the note, they simply aid in response so that those particular notes have a clear attack.
@@BuildingaBassoonist thanks! After som practicing, I believe that I start to get a grip on them. I find that their use sometimes slows down my playing, which I temporily solved by just pitching them “in my head”, like one does on the flute. I need to get better! :-D
As a self-taught beginner bassoonist (1st instrument is oboe) flicking was totally new to me.
My problem is that my hand isn't big enough for my thumb to reach the keys without fouling the bottom bflat etc keys. I guess those keys could be lowered, but it would still be a stretch, and the flick keys might also need to be bent closer...
Try rotating your wing joint and long joint so that the left thumb keys are as close together as possible. This is what I do and I have short thumbs and it helps
@@BuildingaBassoonistI only just now saw your reply, sorry.
The locking mechanism on my Hűller prevents that, sadly.
Any thoughts on the "Jordan key"? Looks logical, though @$1500+ I'm not planning it for my old instrument.
I have couple of reeds with which when I flick the B note in tenor register it starts good, but falls into lower harmonics very quickly after that. No other reed in my collection suffer from that but those two, and I'm wondering if it is I doing something not exactly right.
Any suggestion would be appreciated.
If it’s only 2 reeds and you have multiple others that are fine, it seems likely to be a reed issue. Poor reeds can result in poor flick notes (even when you flick correctly). However, do make sure that you’re maintaining a consistent air stream and air support as you play the note and see if that helps. You might just have to vent with those reeds to make them work.
I just started out on the bassoon but immediately I've noticed my middle C and lower C sound the exact same and I'm not sure where the problem is (whisper key doesn't seem to be making a difference at all, sounds like the lower C all the time) and I can really only reach the higher C when I change my embouchure, but then the embouchure feels extremely awkward and I can't play the lower notes with it. I'm playing on an older bassoon, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the instrument itself. I know that flicking helps with playing the note, but I'm not even in the right octave to begin with. If anyone sees this, by chance, could I have some advice on how to find the problem or fix the problem?
When you are flicking the C, at least for me, I think there may be a small change in my embouchure slightly, but not always. It does take practice…and as ALWAYS….make sure you have a very good reed!! It just takes practice to know how to play correctly and what works with your embouchure. You will eventually do it without any trouble and not think about it. Not sure if I explained it very well so maybe get some information off the internet to help you.
@@ericklemm7430 Thank you for the tips, and do you by chance know why some fingering charts show the middle C as the three fingers on the left hand but no indication of a flick note? Is that normal? And I feel like my whisper key does not do anything at all. I can play the higher C (with my weird embouchure) even while pressing down the whisper key. I've checked to see that the pad is blocking the hole and it is. Would that be normal as well?
@@vyingforlife Hello, if you are talking about the C on the first line above the bass clef staff then you don’t want to use the whisper key. You want the whisper key to stay open. You must flick the 4th key above the whisper key at the right time (the beginning of your c note)for that higher c to play correctly. Also make sure you have a reed that is properly made and adjusted so it helps your playing and not hindering you from playing correctly. I hope you have someone that can properly teach you the correct techniques. I hope that answers what you are trying to get answered. Anyway, hope that helps….good luck!
@@ericklemm7430 Sure, thank you for your help!
Make sure you are "venting" that higher C! All this means is that you should hold down the key for the entire time you play the note (instead of flicking). The key you should be pressing is the 4th key above the whisper key. If you are holding that key down for the high C and holding the whisper key down for the lower C, then that should help fix the problem.
Flute doesn't not have a register or octave key. Octaves on the flute are changed with air speed.
You’re right! Thanks for clarifying 🙂
Now I can successfully flick people off
An important skill to have.