It's really nice to listen to someone split a lot of theological hairs without the need to bash people who disagree with him. Repeatedly, he refers to people who disagree with him as good people "who love the Lord."
@@memowilliam9889 Jesus is God. He can do many things we can't. He clearly tells us never to call another "though fool". For if we do, we are in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22. Jesus gave Himself that [none] should perish. Are you approaching this discussion in the same manner? God's will be done.
@@Chris-zd8cs It's better left to Christ/God in the flesh to judge in such a way, rather than one who might have a beam in his own eye. God's will be done.
@@MichaelLMayes When Peter addresses eschatological views... he calls the one derived from twisting Paul's teaching as "wicked"... 2 Peter 3:10-18. There is only one eschatological doctrine is derived from just Paul's teaching and no other. It is called the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine. It comes from the idea that Paul revealed a new mysterious event... 1 Cor 15:51,52, However, Paul calls the event the "resurrection of the dead" in verse 42. Which is addressed as early as Job 14:12, and Jesus and Martha dialogued about it in John 11 concerning Lazarus raising on "the last day". Paul never taught a rapture prior to tribulation. So when Peter addresses the twisting of Paul's teaching on this matter, there is only one doctrinal ideal that he can be referring to. If you are pretrib, you need to at least cast blame on a different doctrine other than on the cult of dispensationalism and it's pretrib rapture. Unfortunately... all fingers point at this view... no other view points to Paul's teaching alone.... the Word of God calls those who have it as "wicked". Every argument for a pretrib rapture and dispensationalism is birthed in deceit.
Pre Mid or Post, the most important question is are you READY? What if your doctrine is right, but you don't make it? The most important thing is having a personal relationship with Christ, aim to fulfill His perfect purpose and will that He has set for us.
[44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
What is happening is that people are confusing the tribulation with the wrath of God. The tribulation is not the wrath of God, the wrath of God comes after the sixth seal, after the persecution of the saints.
@youreconfused The Great tribulation takes place before Gods wrath is pored out . The great tribulation is not Gods wrath. Read Mathew 24 kjv. It say there will be great tribulation and immediately after he gathers his elect and the sun and moon darken... Everything before the sun and moon darkened and the rapture is the Great tribulation.
I really liked Chuck Missler. I use to go listen to his Bible teachings on a weekly basis back in the 90's. But he always told us not to listen to him and to always do our own homework to be like the Bereans. After much study, I do have to say that I found a different perspective that I think resolves all the issues. And that is the post trib/ pre-wrath rapture position. Here's why: 1. Pre-trib is correct that we are not appointed to God's wrath. Multiple passages tell us this. 1st Thessalonians 1:10, 1st Thessalonians 5:9, Luke 21:34-36, Revelation 3:10. Bypassing all these passages would be a mistake. Those who hold to a completely Post trib view will drive home the "last day" as spoken of by Jesus in John 6, but I think last day refers to the "last day" of this current age, known as the church age, which will end with the revelation of Jesus in the clouds to gather His elect. Matthew 13 and the parable of the wheat and tares says the harvest will occur at the end of the age. Jesus was also asked about the end of the age in Matthew 24 and He gave them lots of signs to look for and ended with His revelation from heaven in the clouds. The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 is the resurrection and rapture combined; occuring on the last day of this age. 2. The difference between tribulation and wrath. Some have already brought this up in other comments, and it is true. Multiple passages describe a tribulation that believers will need to endure before Christ comes in flaming fire for vengeance. Daniel 7:21-28, Revelation 13:5-7, Revelation 12:12-17, Matthew 24:4-28, 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10. I do not belive that all these passages are only talking about Jews who will need to endure and definitely not with 2nd Thessalonians 1. Jews in unbelief are not hated for the name of Jesus. The rest of the "woman's" offspring who hold to the testimony of Jesus in Revelation 12 also are mentioned distinctly from the woman who flees into the wilderness. Also Jews in unbelief do not hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ. That's the church. So, the tribulation and even great tribulation in the 2nd half of the 7 years is not God's wrath. It is persecution that Jews and Christians will need to persevere (Revelation 14:12). The wrath of God will not come until the "Day of the Lord" which I belive occurs with the darkening of the sun, moon, and stars in Revelation 6:12-17 and also all the Olivet Discourse passages. Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25, Mark 13:24. Also Isaiah 13:6-13. Jews in unbelief will miss the rapture which will occur at His glorious appearing in the clouds and will have to continue on through to the end of His judgment. The 144,000 in Revelation 7 and 14 are the firstfruits of this remnant which God will protect through His wrath with a seal. They are mentioned as being on the earth in Revelation 9, however the innumerable multitude of all nations is found in heaven in Revelation 7. They are also standing on the sea of glass before the throne in Revelation 15. We can see that this revelation of Jesus in the clouds is not occurring on the "last day" of God's judgment. Luke 21:26 says the ungodly will be in fear for expectation of those things coming upon the earth. So, the wrath of God has not commenced yet. This corresponds perfectly with Revelation 6:15-17 where we see before trumpets and bowls, there is great fear and panic with people hiding themselves in the rocks. Jesus is revealed from heaven and every eye sees Him here in Revelation 6:16. This matches up with Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:27, and Mark 13:26. There is also still things to escape on this day Luke 21:34-36. This is the hour of trial coming upon the whole world that we are told we are not appointed to, Luke 21:35, Revelation 3:10... The trumpets, bowls, and God's wrath in flaming fire and brimstone from heaven. And here's another major point. Luke 17:29-30. There needs to be a departure like that of Lot from Sodom on the same day as Jesus is revealed from heaven... and also on the same day as fire and brimstone rain down. That all occurs here between Revelation 6:12 and Revelation 8:7. It also occurs again in Revelation 14:14 with the Son of Man on the cloud. As already mentioned the call for the perseverance is last given in Revelation 14:12. Why is this the last place we see that? Note how the promise of rest is given here matching that found in 2nd Thessalonians 1. I think Revelation is split into at least two visions, and maybe three? There's the letters to the churches in Revelation 1-3, then there's the first vision of apocalyptic events in Revelation 4-10. You will see John eats the scroll in conjunction with the 7th trumpet about to be blown and then he is told that he must prophesy again. Revelation 11-22 is then a 2nd vision of apocalyptic events. Two things to make note of: 1.) the 1st vision in Revelation 4-10 covers almost the entire 70th week right up to the Bowl Judgments, whereas the 2nd vision in Revelation 11-22 only covers from the midpoint to the end (time, times, & half a time, 1260 days, 42 months). 2.) Jesus is seen in wrath coming in Revelation 6:16, but is seen peacefully in a cloud in Revelation 14:14. Why is He seen so differently in these passages and why is Revelation divided in this manner with Jesus being revealed twice? I don't think He is revealed twice, but rather His coming is perceived differently depending upon who you are. Exodus 14:19-21 Malachi 4:1-3 Psalm 18 Isaiah 30:27-31 (note the singing in verse 29 of this otherwise terrifying passage). Psalm 87 (again singing in last verse) Psalm 68 (again singing in verse 25) "Healing in His wings" Malachi 4:2, Psalm 68:11-14. Kings scattered, but those who fear His name are brought out like fat stall fed calves. Brought out where? Isaiah 30:29, Exodus 15:17, John 10:1-6, Hebrews 12:18-24. "Registered in heaven" "Born again" Psalm 87 John 3:3-5
I am not a pre-trib, I am post trib. Pre/mid-tribbers always say that He could come at any moment, but I say that even though we don't know the day or hr, we still can track when he's getting close.
The blessed hope is that since Christ died for us, we will go to be with him when he returns, whether we are dead or alive. The blessed hope is not in the timing of his return, but that nothing will stop it from happening, not even death.
If Christ died for you, why do you have a problem with dying with him or for him as well? To believe in Chuckies pre-trib rapture one needs to be wrong on far more other teachings, too it seems. "After the Tribulation" of those days... Not before.
The blessed hope is what you think, namely the return of Jesus Christ. If you believe in Him, believe He is going to keep you safe. You don't have to preach the pre-trib rapture to other people if the Lord have revealed it to your heart. However, you have no reason to reject or believe in either pre or post trib unless it's based on scripture. You know Jesus has you in His hands because the Bible says (and you're right!). Let the Bible speak on the timing of His return, too. Amen!
And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred. Matt 24:10 Amp
Yeah, it's because they believed in pre-trib rapture rather than the truth, they won't be prepared and many of them will fall away from Christ. Then they'll report and turn in all the real Christians to try to save their own skins.
I am a little confused as to why Chuck thinks that Anti- Christ will revealed before the raptire because 2 Thess 2:3 says "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"
2 Thes 2:2 is about the day of the Lord (aka tribulation). The AC comes to power and then the peace treaty is confirmed and then tribulation starts. 2 Thes 2 is silent on the rapture timing.
@@rick_h The Day of the Lord is not the Tribulation. Joel 2:31 says, that the cosmic disturbances come before the Day of the Lord and Mat 24:29 the cosmic disturbances are after the GT, therefore the DotL has also to be after the GT. Paul says the same, it is your assumption that 2.Thess 2:2 is speaking of the DotL. That day is a 24 hour day and not 7 years (Zech 14:7-9), His parousia (2.advent) and the Rapture are the same day as it was in Lot's days (Luke 17:29+30).
@@benny-yj7pq thanks for the reply. So we will only have to hide in a cave for 24 hours (Rev 6:15-17)? I doubt it. Revelation 6 thru 18 is going to take more than 24 hours. At the end, famine, drought, hyperinflation, earthquakes knocking down everything that is built, crops dying from the excessive heat and freak storms will be the norm throughout the whole earth (Rev 3:10). I doubt many will be getting married during that time also. It will start off relatively calm but then progressively turn into hell on earth. Just like a woman giving birth. Whereas in the one taken, one left verses folks will be eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building and getting married. I see two different events. Times will be good before the one is taken and the other is left event happens. At the end of the "day of the Lord" is the second coming. I do believe 1 Thes 4, Mat 24:29-31 is the second coming (post-trib) with an earthly, incorruptible, glorified body resurrection. I suspect we will agree on that. But one taken, one left is pre-trib without a resurrection. We don't disappear. We leave our flesh on earth. We get a heavenly (spirit) body in heaven (1 Cor 15:40). There is only one earthly resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6). Consequently I see two raptures (one pre-trib, one post-trib) and one resurrection. I believe Paul is silent on the pre-trib rapture in all of his letters. He talks about God's wrath and how we are not subject to it but he never mentions the pre-trib rapture explicitly. It is interesting in the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24) and the upper room discourse (John 14) there are only two recorded question. Luke 17 and John 14 "Where Lord?" and "how can we know the way?" Perhaps there were more but were not preserved? Perhaps they were still clueless after Jesus left earth (Acts 1)? Most of the Jews (and of course the gentiles) were clueless including the disciples about His first coming. Most didn't expect Him to die the first time. Most don't believe there is a pre-trib rapture without a resurrection.
@@rick_h The rescue place to hide is Rev 12, the woman, spiritual Israel. Rev 6:15-17 is already His 2. coming after the Rapture and the Sudden Distraction. The stars falling from Heaven and the cosmic disturbances are the same as Mat 24:29 after the GT, The Day of the Lord is also after the GT (Joel 2:31; Acts 2:20 compare with Mat 24:29). There are no 2 Raptures, Paul says in 1. Cor 15: 51 "WE (he includes himself) ALL will be changed in a moment at the last trump (7th trumpet Rev 10:7+11:15-18), that is one Resurrection/Rapture Post-trib. The dead will rise first, that also excludes an earlier Resurrection/Rapture. The Rapture is at His 2. Coming (Mat 24:29-31) as it was in the days of Lot, at the Salvation=Rapture the same day the wicked were destroyed (Luke 17:29+30). In 2. Thess 2:1 the parousia=advent (2.coming+Rapture) are at "that day", the DotL after the revelation of the AC. In Heb 9:28 the Salvation is at His 2. coming (there are no two 2. comings in the bible), just imagination. You can believe what ever you want, the world is full of faith in this and that, but Yeshua is the truth, why do you not believe Him in Mat 24:29-31, when He gathers His believers and followers in the Rapture? Oh, that makes no sense. I believe what the bible says, in the virgin birth etc and not what makes sense. 2. coming and Rapture can happen in one day (Zech 14:7-9) 24 hours because there is another time in heaven, 7 years are 10 minutes and a Jewish wedding is not 7 years but 7 literal days, so the raptured that are seen in heaven in Rev 7:14 are back as an army to judge the world immediately.
@@benny-yj7pq thanks for the reply. I would agree with you that 1 Thes 4:13-17 and 1 Cor 15:50-52 is a post-trib event (aka second coming). There is only one resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24 Rev 20:4-6). 1 Thes 4 has a resurrection. Please answer these two questions: 1. When does John 14:1-3 happen? 2. Is it possible to have a rapture without a resurrection?
But here is the even harder truth: anyone who is angry with his brother will be judged for his anger. Anyone who taunts his friend, speaks contemptuously toward him, or calls him “Loser” or “Fool” or “Scum,” will have to answer to the high court. And anyone who calls his brother a fool may find himself in the fires of hell. Matt 5:22The Voice
How do we square up the pre tribulation rapture with this? 2 Thessalonians 2 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and word.
You can't. That's why the early church knew we would face the antichrist. This is why i believe the prewrath premil and the historical premil positions are the strongest
Whether anyone is pre-or post tribulation… There’s one thing he has severely wrong… He is teaching at the wrath of God is the same as tribulation… They are not. Revelation chapter 6 says the sun goes dark and then the wrath of God comes… Jesus said back in Matthew the sun goes dark right after tribulation… So if tribulation takes place before the sun goes dark and the wrath of God takes place after the sun goes dark, How can they be the same thing
I don't understand why there should be a war about this issue of great privilege, called the rapture? When I listen to pre-trib folks, I hope to be one of them. When I listen to post-trib folks, I concur in silence because my humility forbids me to believe I'll be gone, while people are left here to suffer. I don't feel like I'm in any way preferred by God in that sense, since He loves all of His children. Besides, I don't want to be unprepared psychologically in case pre-trib isn't true.
You know what ? You’re right, you don’t deserve to go and NONE of us do, it’s only by the shed blood of Jesus Christ that any of us are eligible, EVERYONE has the chance right here and right now to choose to believe what He did for us, to not believe is to reject Him the rapture is definitely pre trib and when it happens there will be those who are martyred during the tribulation. Those are the ones who knew but didn’t commit
Our blessed hope is to escape these things. You want to stay feel free but I'm sure you will have no qualms if pretribs are right and we get to go up before this mess unfolds down here. Now that is REAL hope. Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Notice worthy to escape?
John.12[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Thank you for your response. I Thess 5 states that although Jesus comes as a thief in the night for those who are not His, for those who are "are not in darkness should that day overtake you as a thief". So we will not be caught unaware.
Wrath is for condemning, tribulation is for refining. ...[telling them] that it is through many hardships and TRIBULATIONS we must enter the kingdom of God.Act14:22 I have refined you, but not as silver is refined. Rather, I have refined you in the furnace of suffering.Isaiah48:10 ...knowing that the same (identical) sufferings r appointed to your brotherhood (the WHOLE body of Christians) throughout the world.IPet5:9 This fallen world is a 1x deal & God will make the most of it in our lives.
I'm ready to lay my life down for Jesus as he did me. I choose to be as John the Baptist and be beheaded knowing full well who waits for me at the river. I'm no better than my fellow brothers and sisters who have been murdered for His name sake. Why argue?
The truth being important we are supposed to ENDURE in the FAITH til THE END ask yourself WHAT IS OUR END it is the ones who are ALIVE, REMNANT, REMAIN that are caught up, not everyone will sleep DIE.
No Post-Trib porblem counteract that major Pre-Trib problems. "That day will NOT come until the Man of Sins be reveled" and Yeshua explicitly saying "AFTER the Tribulation of those days"
@@marclaclear6628 First of all you taking material form the parable to interpret the actual Prophecy. Missler himself saying building doctrine on Parables is sketchy. Secondly yes the Raptures are still Judged, read 1st Corinthians 3, or Luke 12 where The Servants receive harsher then the Unbelievers.
Paul said that our gathering together with Christ cannot happen until the falling away and the man of sin is revealed. That does not sound like eminence to me.
Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years before. Don't be fooled. It's very clear. We must endure until the end. It's just too easy to plaster an idea over the passages to make them say something they are not.
I used to beleive in the pre-trib rapture so I have given it more than a glance. I really believe that the mansions He is preparing is our heavenly bodies. It fits nicely with the Scripture I gave and also, if they were literal mansions, one would think He would have had them ready by Rev 6:9. Yet I see no mansions: Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Refine is the same for us. I don't know how u draw ur lines 2 decide that this is 4 them, but not 4 us. v. re·fined, re·fin·ing, re·fines 1 To reduce to a pure state; purify. 2 To remove by purifying. 3 To free from coarse, unsuitable, or immoral characteristics: refined his manners; refined her speaking style. v.intr. 1 To become free of impurities. 2 To acquire polish or elegance. 3 To use precise distinctions and subtlety in thought or speech.
Well #1 Chuck believes the church will be raptured off the earth and will go to heaven for some kind of picnic or supper. Someone has to go outside of scripture to believe this, don’t you agree? If you agree this happens then I need 2 verses that confirms this happening.
@@doctortabby but you have no supporting scripture for your belief, there’s why our churches are dying is for lack of knowledge, Catholics do the same thing, they have many doctrines they can’t substantiate with scripture and “ us bible believers” criticize them when most evangelical churches are just as bad. Much love brother but you better learn to think for yourself and dig deep into Gods word
A reasonable argument. If pre-trib then Jesus's caution that, "Whoever endures to the end will be saved," doesn't carry much weight. "The End" could mean the end of the tribulation but then the Post-trib/Snack Lunch approach would occur. It seems more reasonable that enduring through the end of the beginning stages of the trib with the expectancy that He can come at any second is a sound approach. Regardless, the expectancy of His return seems to be the key.
I'm not smart enough to figure it out, but what I can say is, Pray for Pre Trib, prepare for post , Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh
Yes, watch for the signs of his return. He said we will know the season. You are smart enough "For God is not a God of confusion..." (1 Corinthians 14:33) The Bible is super, super clear that the rapture takes place after the tribulation at Jesus return. There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports a pre-trib rapture. Everything Chuck Missler said can easily be debunked.
@@theextreme7134 John Jesus’ Parting Words to His Disciples 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be distressed. You believe in God; believe also in me. 14:2 There are many dwelling places in my Father’s house. Otherwise, I would have told you, because I am going away to make ready a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and make ready a place for you, I will come again and take you to be with me, so that where I am you may be too. 14:4 And you know the way where I am going.” Is one point I would like you clarify.
@@jacobsenh7383 First of all, what makes you believe this passage has anything to do with a pre-trib rapture??? Jesus said this to the original disciples, and clearly they were not raptured. It becomes obvious Jesus was referring to his second coming at the consummation of the age. Proof is in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."
@@theextreme7134 yes this the sama avent the caught up (harpoon, rapture). Not the second comming. No they they were not raptured but expected to be any time.
@@jacobsenh7383 The rapture happens at the second coming. There is only one second coming Hebrews 9:28 "so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a SECOND TIME, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him."
Fits perfectly with Revelation 3:10 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. There you have an awesome picture of the rapture. Yes it is ESCAPE from trials coming on whole world.
John.6 [39] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. [40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
4 our light, momentary affliction (this slight distress of the passing hr) is ever more & more abundantly preparing & producing & achieving 4 us an everlasting WEIGHT OF GLORY [beyond all measure, excessively surpassing all comparisons & all calculations, a vast & transcendent glory & blessedness never to cease!] IICo4:17 Light, momentary affliction can include; rape, murdered, molested by father, lied to, loss of family, bullied, slandered,etc... Any suffering we do adds 2 this weight of glory!
As a pre-wrath believer myself, I object to the objections that Chuck Missler throws my way. His objection about imminency is a prime example of essentially demanding that I look at certain passages the way he does. The alleged imminency passages do not mean "Christ can come back at any moment". Rather, these can be viewed as Christ teaching us to expect his coming, but that it cannot happen at any moment.
Imminency means there are NO SIGNS to signal the snatching away is coming.... just like in a Jewish wedding process. Only the Father knows when His Son is ready to catch away His Bride.
U r telling me that u r perfected? U have no characteristics that need 2 b refined, u love perfectly, u give perfectly, u behave perfectly,U extend grace &mercy perfectly? Like Jesus? U no longer require anymore revelation/understanding/teaching? Thats what u r saying. God uses trials, suffering&tribulation as teachers. Again, after I suffered the loss of my husband, I have more patients,mercy,grace etc.. then before my loss. Im even more thankful. Learning from trials r unforgettable lessons.
Please help me with this then : Mathew 13:29 29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
@@alexthurman6808 exactly my point. Notice Mathew 24: 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. If Read in context: It was NOT good in Noah"s time to be "Taken away" the wicked were taken away.
@@StandingInTheGAPMinistriesInc, in the days of Noah, people were swept away in God’s wrath, but in the days of Lot, people who remained behind were destroyed in God’s wrath. Therefore, claims that the days of Noah example somehow unlocks the meaning of being taken or left behind by the eagles, and that being taken is a bad thing, are false.
@@StandingInTheGAPMinistriesInc, please compare that with Luke 17 where the context is the days of Lot, then explain why you think being swept away to destruction unlocks the eagle metaphor instead of being left behind to destruction.
Bible History Science well aware of Luke 17. Pastored nearly 30 years . I’m full of the Holy Ghost . We are talking the context of Mathew 24 are we not ? The same argument you are trying to make about Lot stands true for Noah !!!!!! No where does Jesus mention one taken, one left in dealing with the CONTEXT of Lot . No where !! He said Lot left . How do you get raptured out of that ? Same context says his wife looked back . How is looking back possible once one is being raptured ? Where is that in the Bible ? John 17 Jesus prays “ don’t take them out of the world keep them from the evil in the world . We will be raptured or caught up the issue is at what time ! At the last Trump of God .
what about the fact that the sun and the moon going dark is only a one-time event in Jesus says that immediately after that happens he will come and take the church? What about the fact that Jesus says that until the abomination of desolation is revealed he will not return? those are the only two things that make me believe in the post tribulation rapture. There's a difference between the day of the Lord and the day of christ. The day of the Lord is the rapture and the day of Christ is when Christ comes back and destroys the Earth. It's a burden that's on my mind everyday
Question: what exactly is the "problem" with believing in a post-trib rapture? It makes us ready and prepared to face persecution, which we are supposed to be prepared for. It makes us take our faith seriously instead of ignoring the signs and sitting back waiting. And if it turns out to be wrong, what harm is done? However, the same cannot be said of a pre-trib belief, in fact, the opposite can be said. Why do you feel the need to prohibit believers from readying themselves for what might come?
In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." John 14:2-4 The key words here are... .I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." Where did Jesus go...To heaven! READ IT
true, many saints disagree on this one more than any other, I am glad it is not a salvation issue, I can see how easy it is to take any of the views. Best to prepare for the worst, and pray for the best, that way you are covered. I believe post trib is correct, because that is the early church view, and I think it lines up with the bible more.but I can be wrong.
Thank you sir for your reply. Mat 24:21 Jesus speaking to the disciples and now to all saints "For then shall be great tribulation such was as not since the beginning of the world to this time no nor ever shall be". Yes the saints will have tribulation, as Jesus says here, and in other places, and again in Rev 6, then He will come. We are not relieved of tribulation, but when He comes, we who are alive will meet Him in the air with the saints. Blessings to you.
@@slojogojo2766 - The antichrist is going to make war with the saints and will be allowed to conquer them - i.e. kill them (Rev. 13:7). The slain saints' souls will be under the alter in heaven waiting until the full number of the killed come in (Rev. 6:9-10).
...knowing that the same (identical) sufferings are appointed to your brotherhood (the whole body of Christians) throughout the world. IPet 5:9Amp For you have been granted [the privilege] for Christ’s sake not only to believe in (adhere to, rely on, and trust in) Him, but also to suffer in His behalf. Phil 1:29 Amp ...and [telling them] that it is through many hardships and tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God. Act 14:22 Amp
Yeah. We are all one body, but if there was a pre-trib rapture there would need to be two wedding feasts. One for the raptured church and then one for all the tribulation saints after the tribulation. Makes no sense, the Bible does not mention two wedding feasts.
The Bible is clear. The day of the Lord and the Gathering of the believers is at the end of the Tribulation. Your points are Strawmans There is no imminent return. The Bible gives us several things to look for preceding Jesus’ return
Also, it says the marriage of the Lamb is come (about to take place) NOT has taken place already. Note that it says His bride has made herself ready. Did it really take her 7 years to get ready? Wasn't she already in her glorified body and perfect? Yes.
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, THE HOUR IS COME; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: Did the hour just occur or is it about to happen? Same thing can be said with "the marriage of the Lamb is come".
The whole focus of that passage is our comfort in Christ. Just because it stops at the mention of our gathering doesn't mean nothing else takes place after. There is simply not enough room to always speak about everything at once, so they simply focus on the purpose of the passage and that one was to comfort those mourning for their dead. I should also mention that Matthew 24 says nothing about Christ's feet touching the ground. And you can't say John 14:3 refers to the church if you...
Absolutely! I was very surprised that Mr. Missler would take this approach, in fact I am very disappointed and feel that he has lost some credibility with me.
@@sheilayoung6590, I have heard the word imminency used rather broadly by a variety of Bible teachers and to some, it means *soon* and to some, it means *at any moment from the present to a month of Sundays*. I wonder if they just like the sound of it and leave the listener to let it mean whatever he or she interprets it by the context of the message being presented.
Here is our blessed hope: For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us. Christ died for us so that, whether we are DEAD or ALIVE when he RETURNS, we can live with him forever. So encourage each other and build each other up, just as you are already doing. He does not return until the end. The bible repeats that over and over again and tells you not to be deceived if anyone else speaks anything different.
You can prove 100% there is a post tribulation rapture with only 2 passages. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and Revelation 20:4-5. 1 Thessalonians says the resurrection and the rapture happen together. Revelation 20:4-5 talks about the tribulation Saints slain by the beast who will live again to rule with Christ in the thousand year reign. "This is the first resurrection" (Rev 20:5). You CAN'T resurrect tribulation Saints before the tribulation, they have not died yet. 100% proof of a post tribulation rapture. The debate is over.
I guess you know more than jesus? He said immediately after the tribulations of those days. The word after means post. When you say we are to expect jesus at anytime that means us dying as individuals not the rapture. You are looking over the fact the revelation chapter 20. Verse 4 and 5 states that the first resurrection happens after the mark of the beast
You expect him at any moment, whether you are pre, mid, or post. You can die at anytime from anything, anywhere. The tribulation, is not God's wrath. There will be more than enough time, to rapture the saints at the end, and pour out Gods wrath, this is God we are talking about. To be honest, no one of us knows for sure, it is best to prepare for worst, and hope for the best, otherwise, you will be ill prepared, if your pre, or mid trib. The last trump, the seventh trump, not before.
what???? The Tribulation is not God's wrath? What color is the sky on your planet? If you are prepared for an any moment APPEARANCE of Yeshua to call you up to Him, then you are THE.MOST.PREPARED to leave this planet. "The Last Trump" refers to the 100th shofar blast at the Feast of Trumpets, Yom Teruah. It can NOT refer to the 7th trumpet judgment in Revelation as Revelation was written at least 35 years AFTER Paul's revelation of the church's snatching away.
@@sigalsmadar4547 always be prepared to die because we all can die at any time any moment anywhere anyplace from anything tribulation or not the tribulation is not Gods wrath, its satans wrath on gods people, gods wrath comes after that at the last trump. god bless and stay in his word. christians regularly debate this.
REVELATION 14:9 references the mark of the beast. REVELATION 14:13, "Blessed are the dead which die in THE LORD henceforth". REVELATION 14:16 references the Post Tribulation rapture. REVELATION 14:18-20 references the winepress of Armageddon. JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.
Hank Bevers, according to the parable of wheat and tares, those who take the mark of the beast will be harvested and thrown into the Lake of Fire before tribulation saints are ingathered to Jesus. But Rev 14 shows the Lord harvesting saints from among the clouds before the harvest of the wicked. This is one of the evidences of the Rapture before the ingathering at his second coming, and other evidence shows the Rapture happening not very long before the great tribulation starts.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 The events of MATTHEW 13:39 and MATTHEW 13:49 will occur at “the end of the world” (KJV). * However, some people have been claiming that the events of MATTHEW 13:39 and MATTHEW 13:49 will occur 1,000 years before the end of the Millennial Kingdom. * At the end of the Millennial Kingdom, “the tares” of MATTHEW 13:30 / MATTHEW 13:40 will be gathered from “HIS kingdom” (MATTHEW 13:41). * Equating MATTHEW 13:30 with REVELATION 14:16-19 is wrong, and doing so generates confusion: * REVELATION 14:16-20 is Christian Rapture first / Armageddon next. * MATTHEW 13:30 is tares first / wheat next. * The Millennial Kingdom starts at the time of REVELATION 14:20. * The Millennial Kingdom ends at the time of MATTHEW 13:30 (MATTHEW 13:41-42). * If the wicked people were gathered before the Battle of Armageddon, then there would not be any bad guys at the Battle of Armageddon……not bad guys…..no battle. .
@@biblehistoryscience3530 REVELATION 20:9 will occur 1,000 years AFTER the Battle of Armageddon. In REVELATION 20:9, wicked people get removed from Earth while GOD'S people are still on Planet Earth. tares removed FIRST, at "the end of the world"......just like JESUS CHRIST said. .
@@biblehistoryscience3530 THE HOLY BIBLE repeatedly prophesies a POST Trib Rapture. There is not even one prophecy of a Pre Trib Rapture. JESUS CHRIST is the speaker in REVELATION chapter 11. The Resurrection and Rapture occur in REVELATION 11:11-12. REVELATION 11:14 prophesies that that will occur at the end of "the second woe". REVELATION 11:15 prophesies that that will occur at the start of the Millennial Kingdom. 1st CORINTHIANS 15:23 proves that REVELATION 11:11-12 is 1st THESSALONIANS 4:16-17. And REVELATION 20:4-5 proves that "the first resurrection" will include Tribulation Era martyrs. And of course, DANIEL 12:1-2 is in agreement with all of the aforementioned Verses as evidenced by the fact that DANIEL 12:1-2 prophesies that the Resurrection will occur AFTER the tribulation. And all of that makes perfect sense when we realize that (in JOHN 6:40) JESUS CHRIST revealed that the resurrection will occur on "the last day". Of course, false Christians are teaching that the resurrection will occur 7 years before the resurrection. And that false church has hereby been rebuked IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST. .
@@GODandGODDESS, Jesus did not say in Matt 13:39 that the harvest is at the end of the world but at the end of the Age, and Jesus expanded on this in Matt 24:29-31 where the nations (tares) mourn because their destruction has come, then saints are ingathered from across heaven and earth, which includes the surviving tribulation saint wheat. And we see this in Rev 19-20 before the Millennium starts. And Jesus is removing tares from his Kingdom at his second coming because his Kingdom has come at his arrival. You said “Equating MATTHEW 13:30 with REVELATION 14:16-19 is wrong, and doing so generates confusion:” Rev 14:14-16 is the Rapture harvest before the great tribulation starts, and verses 17-20 represents the tares harvest. You said “REVELATION 14:16-20 is Christian Rapture first / Armageddon next. MATTHEW 13:30 is tares first / wheat next” It describes the church Rapture before the great tribulation starts then the tares harvested after the great tribulation and wrath end. Therefore, Matt 13 shows the tares then wheat but not the Rapture, and Rev 14 shows the Rapture then tares but not the wheat. You said “The Millennial Kingdom starts at the time of REVELATION 14:20.” According to Rev 19-20, Satan is locked up after Armageddon, then faithful tribulation saints will be resurrected and rewarded and survivors will be ingathered and enter the Millennium. You said “The Millennial Kingdom ends at the time of MATTHEW 13:30 (MATTHEW 13:41-42).” Again, that’s not the end of the world but the end of this _Age_ before the Millennium. And I never said anyone was gathered before Armageddon. Also, Rev 11:11-12 shows the resurrection and catching-up of the two witnesses only. It’s not the Rapture of the church. Verse 15 is a proclamation that Jesus is claiming the kingdom of earth, then he pours his wrath out and returns. 1 Cor 15:20-28 covers the entire history of mankind on the earth from Genesis 1 to the end of Revelation 20, so it’s impossible to pull the Rapture timing from such a compressed timeline in which almost everything is missing. And what do you do with Jesus’ resurrection if the “first” resurrection happens in Rev 20:4-5? Dan 12:1-2 is not about the great tribulation but Satan’s fall before the Rapture, which is seen in more detail in Rev 12:7-14. Finally, it’s terrible to rebuke people for not believing in your interpretation of prophesy, especially when yours is full of holes.
Eric Mendez That's why Christians never argued about it until lately because never believed in a "pretrib rapture" until money could be made from that false teaching.
Jesus taught a pre-great-trib Rapture, so did Paul, so did the Father in Revelation, so did early church fathers. Then the doctrine disappeared for about 1,200 years when the Catholic church imposed a new doctrine in which the church supposedly replaced Israel. All of a sudden it because a crime to believe that Jesus would take the church to the place he told us to believe that he was going to prepared in Heaven, and then he would come to receive us to himself so we could be with him there. It remained a crime to believe this for several centuries after the Reformation because the reformers did not bother reforming the Catholic doctrine. Dispensational Premillennialism was not rediscovered until religious and political liberty flourished again, which happened first in England and America.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years before. Don't be fooled. It's very clear. We must endure until the end. It's just too easy to plaster an idea over the passages to make them say something they are not.
The biggest problems with the Post-Tribulation is that A.) It's heretical blasphemy and B.) it's nonsensical. You Posters are saying Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough; that He didn't pay for our sins in full. We have to suffer, survive and be judged to "make it into" heaven. Nice to know you preach works salvation. And B... so basically what you're saying is we'll be called to heaven to "saddle up" then come right back down. Where's the marriage? Marriage supper? The Bema Seat
OtterloopB Since the martyrdom of Christians has been happening since the foundation of the faith how did you come up with that idea that the ones that died for Christ weren't worthy?
And if we are [His] children, then we are [His] heirs also: heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ [sharing His inheritance with Him]; only we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory. [But what of that?] For I consider that the sufferings of this present time (this present life) are not worth being compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us and in us and for us and conferred on us! Romans 8:17-18
Quote: "Also angels do not get to wear fine linen, white and clean" Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Jesus never explicitly say that he will come back "before" the tribulation. Next, the tribulation is not God's wrath. The tribulation is the Devil's wrath against the Saints. Oh and here's the other kicker, if the Saints are raptured before the tribulation, then who is it that the Antichrist wages war with then? Why would 1 set of Saints get raptured but another set go through the tribulation? Especially when Rev 20 v 4-6 explicitly states that All Saints (including those that experience the Great Tribulation) partake in the 1st Resurrection.
@@GoatzombieBubba Sorry, I respectfully disagree. In Rev 13, the scriptures clearly states that the Beast (who is the AntiChrist) will make war with the Saints AND overcome them. When is the AntiChrist revealed??? The Antichrist is revealed during the tribulation.
@@harbinger1861 You are exactly right! a) Does the language of 1 Thess. 4:16 (i. e. “shout…voice of the archangel…trump of God “) suggest a silent, secret rapture? b) Is there anything silent or secret about a shout, voice or trumpet sound? Consider for a minute that the word “shout” here is an ancient military idea which was used to proclaim or publicize to all a military victory over enemy forces. It is also a cry of command, or we may say a war cry, or a charge by the commander-in-chief. If you wanted to publicize or make known a certain thing to all, would you whisper it or would you shout it? The shout of 1 Thess. 4:16 is not to be heard only by a certain eclectic group (the church) but by all. Note also that 1 Thess. 4:16 includes the “voice of the archangel,” not the whisper of the archangel.
@@Tigerex966 Not really, after the falling away we will get to meet the man of sin as laid out plainly in 2nd thess. 2;3&4 Recap Gods word says; 1-falling away 2-man of sin revealed Then the second coming, no such thing as a rapture taught in scripture.
If the strongest point about this is "it denies immanency" is actually incorrect because God says that He cuts the great tribulation SHORT lest all the saints (including the 144,000 on the mountain) would die. So, the second coming of Jesus Christ will indeed be imminent. One of my biggest issues with pre-tribulation is the fact that Jesus would have to come back twice in order for it to be true. Where in the Bible does it back up a second and third coming?
Heather, Paul said in 2 Thess 2 that he was writing to support the Rapture so they would not fear as though the day of Christ had come. This was because they lost faith in the pre-great-trib Rapture when someone convinced them the great tribulation had started. Paul taught that the day of Christ cannot come until the one restraining the Antichrist _ginomai_ “arises” out of the middle, and then the he will manifest. Either this refers to the pre-great-trib Rapture, or Paul never mentioned the Rapture again after verse 1 and gave them a timeline to calm their fears that didn’t contain a Rapture escape or anything else calming on it.
Now if [all these things are true, THEN BE SURE] the Lord knows how to rescue the godly out of temptations & TRIALS, AND how to keep the ungodly under chastisement until the DAY OF JUDGMENT and doom. 2Pet 2:9
For all those who believe a pre trib ..imagine how many souls will take the mark if it's really post trib... post trib is supported by scripture ...if it ends up post trib half of you pre tribbers will take the mark ...prepare for the worst hope for the best ..pre trib has that saying backwards
amen James. pass along my pre-trib rapture challenge question to everyone. it debunks the whole pre-trib teaching in one question using one passage of scripture.
There's people still say there's no pre tribulation Rapture. This video they clearly must see. Also chucks rapture 1 n 2 videos. Amazing man of Gods word.
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Yeah. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Resurrection on the last day. Put those two together, and there’s only one place when the rapture could possibly happen. How is this so hard? Because poor doctrines and indoctrination.
@@cruddddddddddddddd And because people don't rightly divide God's Word too! They use the Gospels as the New Testament, erasing what Paul said that was unknown to Jesus...
Louisa A What Paul said wasn’t unknown to Jesus. Paul took messages that Jesus geared to the Jews and geared them to the Gentiles. Paul also used the Old Testament quite extensively, which Jesus was an expert on. Jesus’ rapture message is Matthew 24 matches up very nicely with Paul’s 1 Thessalonians 4 rapture message.
Louisa A Compare the two passages: Matt. 24:29-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. Then go read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. There are certain events that have to happen prior to the rapture-the apostasia, or falling away from God’s word, and the antichrist must be revealed. I’m aware Paul was not an original apostle, and wasn’t saved until after Jesus left the earth. I know you probably know everything about scripture and no one else knows anything-just like everyone else on the internet. But Paul said nothing that contradicts Jesus’ ministry. Both Jesus and Paul used Old Testament scripture to preach, FYI
There may be some that do believe that, I just happen to be not one of them. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then ALL who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. ICo15:23 NLT Notice, ALL who belong to Christ will raise, "When He comes back". Not just some, or 1/2, but ALL will be raise when He comes back.
But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell. Matt 5:22 NLT
Pre Tribbers claim that the Church is not in MATTHEW chapter 24. First of all, be aware that rapture / left behind scenarios are referenced in MATTHEW 24:40-41. That having been said, Pre Tribbers are actually claiming that the Church is not in MATTHEW 24:5-31. What is “the Church” ? In MATTHEW 16:16, Peter said (to JESUS), “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”. In MATTHEW 16:18, JESUS CHRIST said, “…upon this rock I will build my church…”. In MATTHEW 16:18, JESUS CHRIST defined the “church” as: anybody who confesses that JESUS is the Christ and the Son of THE LIVING GOD. Does THE HOLY BIBLE reveal that the church will be on Planet Earth during the Great Tribulation of MATTHEW 24:21 ? REVELATION 12:11, “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death”. REVELATION 20:4. “…and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God…”. You hereby see that THE HOLY BIBLE reveals that the church will be on Earth during the Great Tribulation of MATTHEW 24:21. You have the responsibility to never claim otherwise. This responsibility is permanent and irrevocable. It is not negotiable. You know that you have been listening to false prophets of Pre Trib rapture doctrine. You know it. Go look at yourself in the mirror, and you will see a person who knows that Pre Trib rapture doctrine is heretical. MATTHEW 24:29-31, 1st THESSALONIANS 4:16-17 and REVELATION 20:4-5 prove that the rapture will be a Post Trib rapture. And if you want more Post Trib rapture SCRIPTURE, you have 2nd THESSALONIANS 2:1-9. Your cup runneth over with Post Trib rapture SCRIPTURE. And your cup runneth over with Pre Trib’s false prophets. You know it. Go look in the mirror. JESUS IS CHRIST AND THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
what is the purpose of Daniels 70 th week? how does the earth get repopulated if it's a post trib rapture and all believers receive their glorified bodies at the second coming?
Hank Bevers it means who are the nations satan deceives after he is loosed after the 1000 years? Who is it that Jesus reigns over with an iron cepter? And who are the sheep in Mathew 25 31 46
JESUS will rule with a "rod of iron" for 1,000 years (REVELATION 2:27). Subsequently, satan will be released. REVELATION 20:7, "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison." When you use the term "repopulated", are you referring to the Millennial Kingdom Era ? Are you claiming that Planet Earth will be temporarily de-populated near the start of the Millennial Kingdom Era ?
Hank Bevers well by the time mid trib occures over half the earth's population is going to be dead, over 80 % by the second coming. That's not including those who are cast into the lake of fire at the sheep and goat judgement. Scripture clearly shows the earth has to get repopulated
Not all christians/believers/elect/ go to church and this topic is one of the reasons. Very few will take the narrow path,and teach the truth, many will be decieved.It's always about what they have been taught and not about what the Holy Spirit shows them.God help us all,Maybe the virgins should prepare,and the wheat and tares won't get rain.Who is controlling the weather anyway?
I like what you said about different people maybe having different ideas on end times, that is doesn't make them evil or apostates, just different views and ideas.
1 Thes 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: & the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: & so shall we ever be with the Lord. No indication He is doing more than meeting us in the clouds. We go up to Him & He takes us home. to John14:3's mansions He's preparing for us. Fits like a glove
@@Tigerex966 thief as in you may know even is coming but you don't know the exact moment. But yes no one said it was a secret at all. When it happens everyone will know people were taken away. In fact people today are actively expecting it as if its the only way to get their one world government going. They know Christians and Christian nations resist this NWO knowing it is of Satan and the only way is for all Christians to somehow all die off or to all be taken away from the earth. They are looking for an alien abduction to be the worldwide catastrophe to bring about the NWO. The stage set as we speak.
Especially since Jesus also says it in Revelation 16: AFTER the 6th bowl of God's wrath is poured out! Behold, I am going to come like a thief! Blessed (happy, to be envied) is he who stays awake (alert) and who guards his clothes, so that he may not be naked and [have the shame of being] seen exposed! Rev16:15 Amp
BCV on the "at any moment" concept Mr. Missler please. Not knowing UNTIL the "season" is near is supported but no where "at any moment". However, the pre-trib rapture concept itself is correct.
First, the Bible doesn't teach imminency. And the "day that no man knows" mentioned in Matthew 24 is referring to the previously mention gather of the elect "after the tribulation of those days," not some secret, hidden rapture not even mentioned in the text. In addition, PreTribbers claim that Matthew 24 is not written to or about the Church, so the "day that no man knows" cannot be about the rapture of the Church (in their opinion). There is absolutely no hint that the Church is raptured before the stated events. If fact Paul tells us that "that Day" (referring to the previously mention "coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him) cannot happen until the apostasy and the revelation of the Man of Sin. In addition, Joel and Peter tell us that the Day of the Lord happens at the darkening of the sun, moon and stars, and Jesus and John tell us that this happens "after the tribulation of those days" at the Sixth Seal. The Day of the Lord does not begin at the beginning of the Seventieth Week. As for Israel and the Church being mutually exclusive...Huh? Romans teaches that not all Israel are Israel, but only those who believe. The Jews saved during the Tribulation become part of the Church. They are not some separate entity. In Christ Jew and Gentile are made "one new man." PreTribbers believe that throughout the Church Age Gentiles are being save, and then the church must be removed to save a remnant of Jews. Again Romans teaches that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of Gentiles has come in. In other words, a remnant of Jews are being saved and grafted back into their own tree during the Church Age, alongside Gentiles. Then Romans say "In this manner all Israel will be saved." in other words, a remnant of Jews being saved alongside Gentiles until the full number of Gentiles are saved. Then all Israel (that believing remnant and those Gentiles made "one new man," on Body, the Church. All Israel is not the physical nation of Israel (not all who are called Israel are Israel, but only those who believe). All Israel is the Church made up of spiritual Israel, believing Jew and Gentile. The Church is not a "parenthesis" in the middle of God's dealings with Israel in the flesh. The Church is the "fulfillment of the age"s and "all the things that happened to Israel are types and warnings for us." Also, the Tribulation is not God's wrath. God allowed Satan to test Job. God will allow Satan to test His Church. Neither of these tests is God's wrath. God is separating the wheat and the tares, not by a rapture, but by persecution. The Seals are events that occur during the Church Age. They are birth pains, occurring with increasing frequency and intensity. Jesus said "These must occur, but the end is not yet." And most make the mistake of believing the rider on the white horse is the Antichrist. If that rider represent a specific man, the other riders would also, but we never here anyone telling us who they are. No, these rider represent what Jesus tells us they represent in Matthew 24:4-8. During the Flood, Noah and His family were "in Christ" for seven days as all kinds of clean and unclean beasts (nations) entered in. After the seven days (representing the seven year tribulation when the Church is safe in Christ, the Door is closed and the Church rises and God's wrath falls. The Flood represents baptism that saves us according to Peter. This means all this in the Ark have been "buried with Christ in baptism." They are the Church, the Body of Christ, all those who are "marked in Him with a Seal, the promised Holy Spirit (Ephesians). The Church is on earth and the Door remains open throughout the entire period of seven. And the answer to your question, "How can the Bride come with Him?" FIRST, the Great Tribulation occurs, lasting 1260 days. SECOND, "Ater the tribulation of those days" the sun, moon and stars are darkened for a period of time. This, according to Peter and Joel, represents the Latter Rain Pentecost when God's Spirit is poured out. It is the culmination of the Counting of the Omer when the fullness of the harvest is brought in. It is a Jubilee. THIRD, On some unknown day, the sign of the Son of Man will occur in the sky and Christ will gather His elect from heaven (the dead in Christ...absent from the body but present with the Lord) and earth (those who are alive and survive...the actual meaning of the Greek word gives a hint that those alive survived something...the Fifth Seal martyrdom ). FOURTH, The Day of the Lord begins as He pours out His wrath for an unknown period of time (Feast of Trumpets). FIFTH, Christ returns with His armies to defeat the Beast and His armies at Armageddon. (Day of Atonement). SIXTH, The Church celebrates the Wedding Feast (The Feast of Tabernacles). All those left from the nations that attacked Israel will come year after year to celebrate this Feast. Christ and His Church (Jew and Gentile) will rule over these nations from the Heavenly City for a thousand years. And the Bride Theft Wedding Scenario...it doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible nor in any Jewish writing (As a PreTribber to show you where it is found in the Jewish writings). this scenario has been concocted, invented by piecing together multiple comments and quotes to create a scenario that supports PreTribulationsim. What is true, however, about a Jewish wedding, is that the Veil of the Bride was never removed until the marriage was consummated. This is the reason Jacob did not know he had married the wrong girl. This is very interesting, because Scripture tells us that in Christ the Veil has already been removed. Christ has placed His Seed into the Bride. If He wasn't married to the Bride, this would be called fornication. At Mt. Sinai, God married Israel at Pentecost. So what this is telling me is that Passover represents the betrothal and Pentecost represents the marriage under the Huppah. What is the Huppah? In the Old Testament the Jews saw Mt. Sinai as a Huppah. In the New Testament the writer of Hebrews tell us that we have come to Mt Zion, to the City of the Living God, the heavenly Jerusalem (the same one mentioned in the Book of revelation). Hebrews 12:18-24 As for the 24 elders...we are already raised up and seated with Christ in heavenly places (Eph). And the restrainer? Nowhere in the verse is there a hint that anything is removed. The actual Greek is says that the restrainer "...will restrain until he is revealed in the midst." The Church as salt and light is the restrainer. But during the apostasy the Church will lose its saltiness, allowing the man of sin to come to power. When the Church loses its saltiness, Jesus tells us that it will become good for nothing except to be trampled upon. That trampling of the Holy City (the Church) is recorded in Revelation 11 just prior to the rapture of the Two Witnesses just prior to the Seventh Trumpet. It lasts for 1260 days. .......HUH? "How can the virgins of Matthew 25 buy oil without the mark of the Beast?" Are you kidding me? It is not literal oil. It is just absurd, the weak arguments, twisting of the text, taking things out of context, picking and choosing what they want to be literal and what they don't, changing definitions of words, assumptions. He makes claim after claim, but never backs any of it up with Scripture.
what is the purpose of Daniels 70 th week? how does the earth get repopulated if it's a post trib rapture and all believers receive their glorified bodies at the second coming?
We were not here for any of Daniels previous 69 weeks because it has nothing to do with the church. It is for god to deal with Israel. If we were not here for any of the previous 69 weeks, when then would we be here for any of the 70th week? Were not plain and simply put
The day of the Lord is the day of his return, the day of his coming, which also happens to be the time of the rapture. We know from biblical passages that the day of the Lord occurs after the sixth seal. The killing of the saints occurs at the fifth seal. And of no doubt, the living will not precede even the dead saints in the trib. The dead are raised first. We are given so many large nuggets of information to be able to determine when the day of the Lord begins, the day of his coming.
hate to repeat myself when I stated it down below but here. We don't know its 7yrs before the final rez. What we do know is it is some time before the 7yrs of Jacob's Trouble Dan12:1 Here are some for starters since you asked rudely. Luke21:36,John14:1-4,1Cor15:51-52,1Thes4:16-18,Rev3:10,Isaiah26:19-21 Also look at Rev4:1 "And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here," God's trumpet call might be His voice, not Trumpet Judgments coming later.
If post-tribs were saying we didn't know when Jesus is coming and could happen any time, there would be no controversy. But the problem is that post-tribs say they know when Jesus is coming and that he comes at the end of the 3 1/2yr of Trib. They are saying the rapture is at the 2nd coming of Jesus, time we know. 1Thes4 shows a completely different picture. The world is left in its sin and Jesus only comes into the air and catches us up to Him. 2nd coming he comes all the way down to Mt.Olives.
Why cant people read the bible for what it says instead of trying to read something into it to line up with a doctrine than can be traced back to men and the men are not the apostles that recorded the Words of Jesus Christ Himself " Take heed that no man deceive you " and the apostle Paul " Let no man deceive you by any means " . Enough Said !!!!
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the BRIDE, the Lamb's WIFE.
Good work? I like Chuck but he was just off here. Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years before. Don't be fooled. It's very clear. We must endure until the end. It's just too easy to plaster an idea over the passages to make them say something they are not.
Rev 16:12 speaks of the 6th bowl of wrath... Rev 16:13speaks of the loathsome spirits... Rev 16:14speaks of those spirits really being demons and Rev 16:15 says and I quote, "BEHOLD, I AM GOING TO COME LIKE A THIEF!" Please, explain to me why, Jesus would say that just after the 6th bowl of wrath is poured out?
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, & with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise 1st. THEN we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall SIMULTANEOUSLY be caught up ALONG WITH [THE RESURRECTED DEAD] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord! IThes 4:16-17 Amp
Just so you know, Matthew 24;31 does not limit the gathering of His elect (the church is God's elect--all believers of all ages) to Heaven. The Greek Interlinear reads literally "And He will send the angels of Him, with a trumpet a great, and they will assemble the chosen of Him OUT OF THE FOUR WINDS from the extremities of the heavens unto the extremities of them." Once again, I seal this with the reminder that the gathering of His saints MUST occur AFTER verse 29 of Matthew 24. Case closed.
One of your models works perfectly for pretrib. I am amazed,that the biggest event is yet to happen.The gathering of the bride by the groom,and you will not even give it a glance.
That actually completely contradicts what scripture says. Jesus tells Christians whenever the Antichrist comes on the scene to flee to the Hills. If you are born again, yes, greater is he. But if you aren't, you're minced meat. Literally.
PRE-TRIBBERS, CAN YOU ANSWER MY ONE QUESTION? How can I be ALIVE AND REMAIN at the SECOND COMING, if I have already been RAPTURED and GONE in some pre-tribulation rapture?
Well Hello torture Tuesday! And people think my name is weird. LOL. Settle down. Settle down. I can truly answer it. I don't think you understood the question. It is AFTER the tribulation but this one passage I am deriving this question from in the Bible clearly teaches beyond a shadow of doubt that the rapture is pre-wrath/post-trib (they may turn out to be the same thing) in the English and the Greek brings it out even more-so. There is absolutely no way to get around it. We already know there is not one clear verse in the whole Bible that teaches a pre-trib rapture nor was it ever taught before 1830 when 50 to 100 Christian cults arose out of the teaching (that' another subject altogether), The question was a logical fallacy because BOTH cannot be true but if you are a pre-trib dispensatonalist you literally have to believe both because the context would only allow for it then. Reread the question and then the passage it comes from and think it over and you will see how easy it is to understand. ONE logical fallacy debunks a false doctrine. I have about 9 more that are in the verses they use in their teaching. I would love for you to get back to me and say EUREKA, I got it. It took me 30+ years of believing and at times teaching pre-trib because all the other views were kept from the church in America and not discussed in the pulpit. I received an indoctrination, not an education. We should show all the views and let people prayerfully read God's Word for themselves and come to their own conclusion. It's a fact that many left Jesus in 1844 when He didn't return int he first pre-trib rpature fail and hardly anyone knew this teaching at that time. Imagine the level of apostasy that is going to happen when the mega-millions from around the world were taught this, are believing it, and it doesn't happen. If they can't see this one, they are blind leaders leading the blind and refuse to repent PUBLICLY and that is what I am calling for. The church needs to get strong again and prepare for what Jesus promised us - tribulation and persecution for His Name's sake, His Word's sake, and for godliness. The likes of Profesoor John Walvoord, Tim Lahaye and many others who taught this their whole life admitted to this on video. So why did they teach it? Everyone is making a lot of money on it I can tell you that much. Tim Lahaye sure did. I think it was just another itchy ear doctrine like the Copeland prosperity message, or you can create with your words when Jesus didn't taught that (taken out of context and goes back to the 1800's New Thought New Age teaching), or that there are two covenants (there are two different folds of sheep but only ONE sheep). I'm trying to call pastors to repentance on this, especially the ones that judge prosperity teachers. This doctrine has many false doctrines within it too. Feel free to use this challenge on anyone that is so adamant that what they believe is true. I plan on doing a whole series of videos soon. Many pre-tribbers believe there will be ordained animal sacrifice again is another false doctrine. They pull a lot of already-fulfilled verses out and throw them way into the future. This explains the already huge apostasy that John Hagee has brought onto the American church saying we don't have to evangelize the Jews who Jesus died for and he has some 21,000 churches following him blindly of which many are mega churches. I hear him quote so many verses way out of context it would make Kenneth Copeland blush. The Jews already began animal sacrifice again in 2018 thanks to people like Hagee. God's wrath is going to come down on that man bigly as Trump would put it. God Bless! I'm called The Sacred Cowtipper for a reason.
No, I agree with you! I might have worded what I was saying wrong though. I believe it's going to be a post trib /pre wrath rapture because I see no evidence of a pre trib rapture. It's false. You pointed out that you cant be alive and still remaining if you've gone up in a pre trib rapture. That destroys the pre trib idea.
@@torturetuesday5191 Yeah, I got one honest person. Look in the greek now and see what the word REMAIN means. It is pereelipo which means SURVIVE so those that haven't slept or got martyred yet in Jesus and have survived to the end of Satan's tribulation will then be raptured. Whether that is a pre-wrath or post-trib I cannot answer. then take the word COMING. It is the greek word parousia which ONLY means second coming physical real return 2nd advent of Christ. So UNTO the coming (parousia) for those that are alive and remain. Any teacher ignoring this after reading this is a deceiver and going to have to pay a high price for lying to the flock of God. That include Mark Hitchcock, Gibbs, Ice and so many others. They all know the Greek there so they are going to be without blame on judgment day. And I, The Sacred Cowtipper, am not afraid to warn them. They better read James 3:1. I can give so many Do you realize I posted this on over 20 pre-trib videos last night and you are the only one that took the challenge? I gave it to raptureready.com last year as they have many pre-trib writers that write for that web site- some big names and couldn't get one response. This whole thing is WICKED. I gave it to husky394xp and his 30,000 followers and challenged all of them against me to a debate on this and not one would take it? He went on to trying to prove a pre-trib rapture from all the New Testament books. I never seen somebody so stupid in my life. He tried saying there was proof of a pre-trib rapture in Philemon even. These people are deceived and being deceived. They are unteachable. Many would lose their ministries if they come out publicly but they are going to have too to be right with God as they deceived millions already. I've challenged up to 100,000 pastors, teachers, big name teachers of this, and regular Joe's like you and I. They have itchy ears and will pay for it some day. No different than the one that comes to Jesus and thinks they can go live for the devil. 99% of people or more that believe in this never studied it out for themselves, don't know a Jesuit started the doctrine fo futurism, or much of the history at all. They are choosing to believe it for no reason at all. Thanks for the discussion. There are many other passages that point to a pre-wrath/post trib but I figure if someone can't see it in this one verse why waste time. Dr. Kent Hovind once said this, "Ignorance can be fixed; Stupid is forever." Dr. Hovind was ostracized by almost every Baptist church he preached in and that is thousands when he got out of prison (unjustly put there) because he repented of teaching pre-trib for decades and is now post-trib. He was literally ostracized like a heathen. Pre-tribbers shout the antisemitism (they don't know what semitism is as ALL Arabs are semitic) card and replacement theology card (they replace the saved church ) that they all have wrong too but they are the ones that are for 2/3rds of all the Jews to be massacred because they helped them with their money to move many of them back to Israel. Right now 5% to 12% of those living in Israel are natural Jews. and they are paying to send even more back there. Would you be willing to challenge people with this question? I think it is the only way to wake up some and time is running out. I plan on doing videos on it.
Go for it! Make some videos and wake some people up! I agree 100% with what you said. I will watch the videos if you make them. I honestly don't think we have that much time left so it's extremely important to get this information out there.
If you are implying suffering or anything can add to our salvation you are at odds with: Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Paul is really saying in 2Cor4 (If your read everything and not just 1 verse) is that our temporary suffering is nothing compared to the glory awaiting us in heaven. Suffering makes us long for heaven all the more. Plz don't read out of context.
Chuck explain scripture aaying the rapture happening after the trib in mat 24, mark 13, and luke oh 21 or so. You are mistaken my freind. And where does it say Christ returns with the bride? It says he comes with his armies and elsewhere his angels. Rev has the church on the glassy sea (before the throne) until pd of wrath complete. Then church (bride) reigning 1000 years with Christ. Personally i think the story of Jesus meeting the disciples on the water in the storm at night jn 9 i think it
This matters, from the perspective that it was communicated to us. It does not matter, from the perspective that, regardless of the timing or what we remain for, what we have placed our hope and faith in is immutable, as is our assurance and future. Toss a blazing mountain in my direction. My hope is in You and I know that You have me through what ever will come. Keep arguing. What ever the truth of the matter (pretrib, haha), it will not change these things.
Wrath and tribulation are two separate things. Let me ask you this: Are the saints alive in the tribulation appointed to wrath? According to the pre-trib theory they must be because they are in the trib. However, if you read the passage in context it tells us what wrath we aren't appointed to, and it is the wrath on the day of the Lord.
It's really nice to listen to someone split a lot of theological hairs without the need to bash people who disagree with him. Repeatedly, he refers to people who disagree with him as good people "who love the Lord."
Yeah. What was Jesus thinking when he insulted those poor, innocent people. Grow up.
@@memowilliam9889 Why would anyone take theological advice from someone swearing? God condones being angry, but that is not a license to sin.
@@memowilliam9889 Jesus is God. He can do many things we can't. He clearly tells us never to call another "though fool". For if we do, we are in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22. Jesus gave Himself that [none] should perish. Are you approaching this discussion in the same manner? God's will be done.
@@Chris-zd8cs It's better left to Christ/God in the flesh to judge in such a way, rather than one who might have a beam in his own eye. God's will be done.
@@MichaelLMayes When Peter addresses eschatological views... he calls the one derived from twisting Paul's teaching as "wicked"... 2 Peter 3:10-18. There is only one eschatological doctrine is derived from just Paul's teaching and no other. It is called the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine. It comes from the idea that Paul revealed a new mysterious event... 1 Cor 15:51,52, However, Paul calls the event the "resurrection of the dead" in verse 42. Which is addressed as early as Job 14:12, and Jesus and Martha dialogued about it in John 11 concerning Lazarus raising on "the last day". Paul never taught a rapture prior to tribulation. So when Peter addresses the twisting of Paul's teaching on this matter, there is only one doctrinal ideal that he can be referring to. If you are pretrib, you need to at least cast blame on a different doctrine other than on the cult of dispensationalism and it's pretrib rapture. Unfortunately... all fingers point at this view... no other view points to Paul's teaching alone.... the Word of God calls those who have it as "wicked". Every argument for a pretrib rapture and dispensationalism is birthed in deceit.
I love Dr. Chuck Missler. He was the greatest Bible-teacher I've ever seen. period.
Derek Prince was also great
That’s because you’re a goat and you will eat of any doctrine. He was one of the biggest liars out there. Besides Billy Graham.
@@mv9787 if you believe anything that man said you were bound for hell, the truth is not in you.
Pre Mid or Post, the most important question is are you READY? What if your doctrine is right, but you don't make it? The most important thing is having a personal relationship with Christ, aim to fulfill His perfect purpose and will that He has set for us.
Another thing those who watch get a crown 👑
And Chuck always made that clear.
[44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Well said, but nobody gets it. Duh. They've been brain washed.
What is happening is that people are confusing the tribulation with the wrath of God. The tribulation is not the wrath of God, the wrath of God comes after the sixth seal, after the persecution of the saints.
I’m a post tribulation believer
@youreconfused The Great tribulation takes place before Gods wrath is pored out . The great tribulation is not Gods wrath. Read Mathew 24 kjv. It say there will be great tribulation and immediately after he gathers his elect and the sun and moon darken...
Everything before the sun and moon darkened and the rapture is the Great tribulation.
@youreconfused Mathew 24:31, that is the Rapture . The gathering together to meet the lord.
I’m mid-trib
I really liked Chuck Missler. I use to go listen to his Bible teachings on a weekly basis back in the 90's. But he always told us not to listen to him and to always do our own homework to be like the Bereans.
After much study, I do have to say that I found a different perspective that I think resolves all the issues. And that is the post trib/ pre-wrath rapture position. Here's why:
1. Pre-trib is correct that we are not appointed to God's wrath. Multiple passages tell us this. 1st Thessalonians 1:10, 1st Thessalonians 5:9, Luke 21:34-36, Revelation 3:10.
Bypassing all these passages would be a mistake. Those who hold to a completely Post trib view will drive home the "last day" as spoken of by Jesus in John 6, but I think last day refers to the "last day" of this current age, known as the church age, which will end with the revelation of Jesus in the clouds to gather His elect. Matthew 13 and the parable of the wheat and tares says the harvest will occur at the end of the age. Jesus was also asked about the end of the age in Matthew 24 and He gave them lots of signs to look for and ended with His revelation from heaven in the clouds. The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 is the resurrection and rapture combined; occuring on the last day of this age.
2. The difference between tribulation and wrath. Some have already brought this up in other comments, and it is true. Multiple passages describe a tribulation that believers will need to endure before Christ comes in flaming fire for vengeance. Daniel 7:21-28, Revelation 13:5-7, Revelation 12:12-17, Matthew 24:4-28, 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10. I do not belive that all these passages are only talking about Jews who will need to endure and definitely not with 2nd Thessalonians 1. Jews in unbelief are not hated for the name of Jesus. The rest of the "woman's" offspring who hold to the testimony of Jesus in Revelation 12 also are mentioned distinctly from the woman who flees into the wilderness. Also Jews in unbelief do not hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ. That's the church.
So, the tribulation and even great tribulation in the 2nd half of the 7 years is not God's wrath. It is persecution that Jews and Christians will need to persevere (Revelation 14:12). The wrath of God will not come until the "Day of the Lord" which I belive occurs with the darkening of the sun, moon, and stars in Revelation 6:12-17 and also all the Olivet Discourse passages. Matthew 24:29, Luke 21:25, Mark 13:24. Also Isaiah 13:6-13.
Jews in unbelief will miss the rapture which will occur at His glorious appearing in the clouds and will have to continue on through to the end of His judgment. The 144,000 in Revelation 7 and 14 are the firstfruits of this remnant which God will protect through His wrath with a seal. They are mentioned as being on the earth in Revelation 9, however the innumerable multitude of all nations is found in heaven in Revelation 7. They are also standing on the sea of glass before the throne in Revelation 15.
We can see that this revelation of Jesus in the clouds is not occurring on the "last day" of God's judgment. Luke 21:26 says the ungodly will be in fear for expectation of those things coming upon the earth. So, the wrath of God has not commenced yet. This corresponds perfectly with Revelation 6:15-17 where we see before trumpets and bowls, there is great fear and panic with people hiding themselves in the rocks. Jesus is revealed from heaven and every eye sees Him here in Revelation 6:16. This matches up with Matthew 24:30, Luke 21:27, and Mark 13:26.
There is also still things to escape on this day Luke 21:34-36. This is the hour of trial coming upon the whole world that we are told we are not appointed to, Luke 21:35, Revelation 3:10... The trumpets, bowls, and God's wrath in flaming fire and brimstone from heaven.
And here's another major point. Luke 17:29-30.
There needs to be a departure like that of Lot from Sodom on the same day as Jesus is revealed from heaven... and also on the same day as fire and brimstone rain down. That all occurs here between Revelation 6:12 and Revelation 8:7.
It also occurs again in Revelation 14:14 with the Son of Man on the cloud. As already mentioned the call for the perseverance is last given in Revelation 14:12. Why is this the last place we see that? Note how the promise of rest is given here matching that found in 2nd Thessalonians 1.
I think Revelation is split into at least two visions, and maybe three?
There's the letters to the churches in Revelation 1-3, then there's the first vision of apocalyptic events in Revelation 4-10. You will see John eats the scroll in conjunction with the 7th trumpet about to be blown and then he is told that he must prophesy again. Revelation 11-22 is then a 2nd vision of apocalyptic events. Two things to make note of:
1.) the 1st vision in Revelation 4-10 covers almost the entire 70th week right up to the Bowl Judgments, whereas the 2nd vision in Revelation 11-22 only covers from the midpoint to the end (time, times, & half a time, 1260 days, 42 months).
2.) Jesus is seen in wrath coming in Revelation 6:16, but is seen peacefully in a cloud in Revelation 14:14. Why is He seen so differently in these passages and why is Revelation divided in this manner with Jesus being revealed twice? I don't think He is revealed twice, but rather His coming is perceived differently depending upon who you are.
Exodus 14:19-21
Malachi 4:1-3
Psalm 18
Isaiah 30:27-31 (note the singing in verse 29 of this otherwise terrifying passage).
Psalm 87 (again singing in last verse)
Psalm 68 (again singing in verse 25)
"Healing in His wings" Malachi 4:2, Psalm 68:11-14.
Kings scattered, but those who fear His name are brought out like fat stall fed calves. Brought out where? Isaiah 30:29, Exodus 15:17, John 10:1-6, Hebrews 12:18-24.
"Registered in heaven"
"Born again"
Psalm 87
John 3:3-5
I am not a pre-trib, I am post trib. Pre/mid-tribbers always say that He could come at any moment, but I say that even though we don't know the day or hr, we still can track when he's getting close.
@Annie Roca He's hanging out with Jesus right now.
Amen Brother Chuck.
The blessed hope is that since Christ died for us, we will go to be with him when he returns, whether we are dead or alive. The blessed hope is not in the timing of his return, but that nothing will stop it from happening, not even death.
If Christ died for you, why do you have a problem with dying with him or for him as well?
To believe in Chuckies pre-trib rapture one needs to be wrong on far more other teachings, too it seems.
"After the Tribulation" of those days... Not before.
The blessed hope is what you think, namely the return of Jesus Christ. If you believe in Him, believe He is going to keep you safe. You don't have to preach the pre-trib rapture to other people if the Lord have revealed it to your heart. However, you have no reason to reject or believe in either pre or post trib unless it's based on scripture. You know Jesus has you in His hands because the Bible says (and you're right!). Let the Bible speak on the timing of His return, too. Amen!
@@metapolitikgedanken612same book as this: "because you have kept my testimony, I will also keep you from the hour"...?
Look at scripture, not just the bullet point presentation of a man.
What scripture aposes what he's saying?
@@jessesmith7469 2 Thesolonians 2, 1-3
@@jessesmith7469 25 lies that must be taught to believe in a pretrib rapture:
th-cam.com/video/g1U-QXQeA4I/w-d-xo.html
@@jessesmith7469 Examining the lie that the "rapture" is not the "second coming"
th-cam.com/video/QRDCL2U4bl0/w-d-xo.html
@@sunsoutgunsout2046 this seems to say the Antichrist comes before the second coming. which is also what Chuck is saying?
And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred. Matt 24:10 Amp
Yeah, it's because they believed in pre-trib rapture rather than the truth, they won't be prepared and many of them will fall away from Christ. Then they'll report and turn in all the real Christians to try to save their own skins.
Because there is no pretrib rapture
I am a little confused as to why Chuck thinks that Anti- Christ will revealed before the raptire because 2 Thess 2:3 says "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"
2 Thes 2:2 is about the day of the Lord (aka tribulation). The AC comes to power and then the peace treaty is confirmed and then tribulation starts. 2 Thes 2 is silent on the rapture timing.
@@rick_h The Day of the Lord is not the Tribulation. Joel 2:31 says, that the cosmic disturbances come before the Day of the Lord and Mat 24:29 the cosmic disturbances are after the GT, therefore the DotL has also to be after the GT.
Paul says the same, it is your assumption that 2.Thess 2:2 is speaking of the DotL. That day is a 24 hour day and not 7 years (Zech 14:7-9), His parousia (2.advent) and the Rapture are the same day as it was in Lot's days (Luke 17:29+30).
@@benny-yj7pq thanks for the reply. So we will only have to hide in a cave for 24 hours (Rev 6:15-17)? I doubt it. Revelation 6 thru 18 is going to take more than 24 hours. At the end, famine, drought, hyperinflation, earthquakes knocking down everything that is built, crops dying from the excessive heat and freak storms will be the norm throughout the whole earth (Rev 3:10). I doubt many will be getting married during that time also. It will start off relatively calm but then progressively turn into hell on earth. Just like a woman giving birth. Whereas in the one taken, one left verses folks will be eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building and getting married. I see two different events. Times will be good before the one is taken and the other is left event happens. At the end of the "day of the Lord" is the second coming.
I do believe 1 Thes 4, Mat 24:29-31 is the second coming (post-trib) with an earthly, incorruptible, glorified body resurrection. I suspect we will agree on that. But one taken, one left is pre-trib without a resurrection. We don't disappear. We leave our flesh on earth. We get a heavenly (spirit) body in heaven (1 Cor 15:40). There is only one earthly resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6). Consequently I see two raptures (one pre-trib, one post-trib) and one resurrection.
I believe Paul is silent on the pre-trib rapture in all of his letters. He talks about God's wrath and how we are not subject to it but he never mentions the pre-trib rapture explicitly. It is interesting in the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24) and the upper room discourse (John 14) there are only two recorded question. Luke 17 and John 14 "Where Lord?" and "how can we know the way?" Perhaps there were more but were not preserved? Perhaps they were still clueless after Jesus left earth (Acts 1)? Most of the Jews (and of course the gentiles) were clueless including the disciples about His first coming. Most didn't expect Him to die the first time. Most don't believe there is a pre-trib rapture without a resurrection.
@@rick_h The rescue place to hide is Rev 12, the woman, spiritual Israel. Rev 6:15-17 is already His 2. coming after the Rapture and the Sudden Distraction. The stars falling from Heaven and the cosmic disturbances are the same as Mat 24:29 after the GT,
The Day of the Lord is also after the GT (Joel 2:31; Acts 2:20 compare with Mat 24:29).
There are no 2 Raptures, Paul says in 1. Cor 15: 51 "WE (he includes himself) ALL will be changed in a moment at the last trump (7th trumpet Rev 10:7+11:15-18), that is one Resurrection/Rapture Post-trib. The dead will rise first, that also excludes an earlier Resurrection/Rapture. The Rapture is at His 2. Coming (Mat 24:29-31) as it was in the days of Lot, at the Salvation=Rapture the same day the wicked were destroyed (Luke 17:29+30). In 2. Thess 2:1 the parousia=advent (2.coming+Rapture) are at "that day", the DotL after the revelation of the AC. In Heb 9:28 the Salvation is at His 2. coming (there are no two 2. comings in the bible), just imagination.
You can believe what ever you want, the world is full of faith in this and that, but Yeshua is the truth, why do you not believe Him in Mat 24:29-31, when He gathers His believers and followers in the Rapture? Oh, that makes no sense. I believe what the bible says, in the virgin birth etc and not what makes sense. 2. coming and Rapture can happen in one day (Zech 14:7-9) 24 hours because there is another time in heaven, 7 years are 10 minutes and a Jewish wedding is not 7 years but 7 literal days, so the raptured that are seen in heaven in Rev 7:14 are back as an army to judge the world immediately.
@@benny-yj7pq thanks for the reply. I would agree with you that 1 Thes 4:13-17 and 1 Cor 15:50-52 is a post-trib event (aka second coming). There is only one resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24 Rev 20:4-6). 1 Thes 4 has a resurrection. Please answer these two questions: 1. When does John 14:1-3 happen? 2. Is it possible to have a rapture without a resurrection?
But here is the even harder truth: anyone who is angry with his brother will be judged for his anger. Anyone who taunts his friend, speaks contemptuously toward him, or calls him “Loser” or “Fool” or “Scum,” will have to answer to the high court. And anyone who calls his brother a fool may find himself in the fires of hell. Matt 5:22The Voice
How do we square up the pre tribulation rapture with this?
2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and word.
You can't. That's why the early church knew we would face the antichrist. This is why i believe the prewrath premil and the historical premil positions are the strongest
@@Calvinist-Premil That's my understanding as well.
Whether anyone is pre-or post tribulation… There’s one thing he has severely wrong… He is teaching at the wrath of God is the same as tribulation… They are not. Revelation chapter 6 says the sun goes dark and then the wrath of God comes… Jesus said back in Matthew the sun goes dark right after tribulation… So if tribulation takes place before the sun goes dark and the wrath of God takes place after the sun goes dark, How can they be the same thing
I don't understand why there should be a war about this issue of great privilege, called the rapture? When I listen to pre-trib folks, I hope to be one of them. When I listen to post-trib folks, I concur in silence because my humility forbids me to believe I'll be gone, while people are left here to suffer. I don't feel like I'm in any way preferred by God in that sense, since He loves all of His children. Besides, I don't want to be unprepared psychologically in case pre-trib isn't true.
You know what ? You’re right, you don’t deserve to go and NONE of us do, it’s only by the shed blood of Jesus Christ that any of us are eligible, EVERYONE has the chance right here and right now to choose to believe what He did for us, to not believe is to reject Him the rapture is definitely pre trib and when it happens there will be those who are martyred during the tribulation. Those are the ones who knew but didn’t commit
Our blessed hope is to escape these things. You want to stay feel free but I'm sure you will have no qualms if pretribs are right and we get to go up before this mess unfolds down here. Now that is REAL hope.
Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Notice worthy to escape?
Exactly
John.12[48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
No days come after the last day. It is the last.
Thank you for your response. I Thess 5 states that although Jesus comes as a thief in the night for those who are not His, for those who are "are not in darkness should that day overtake you as a thief". So we will not be caught unaware.
Wrath is for condemning, tribulation is for refining. ...[telling them] that it is through many hardships and TRIBULATIONS we must enter the kingdom of God.Act14:22 I have refined you, but not as silver is refined. Rather, I have refined you in the furnace of suffering.Isaiah48:10 ...knowing that the same (identical) sufferings r appointed to your brotherhood (the WHOLE body of Christians) throughout the world.IPet5:9 This fallen world is a 1x deal & God will make the most of it in our lives.
I'm ready to lay my life down for Jesus as he did me. I choose to be as John the Baptist and be beheaded knowing full well who waits for me at the river. I'm no better than my fellow brothers and sisters who have been murdered for His name sake. Why argue?
No need to argue, we are to occupy till He comes, and be about our Fathers business, regardless of which position is correct
The truth being important we are supposed to ENDURE in the FAITH til THE END ask yourself WHAT IS OUR END it is the ones who are ALIVE, REMNANT, REMAIN that are caught up, not everyone will sleep DIE.
No Post-Trib porblem counteract that major Pre-Trib problems. "That day will NOT come until the Man of Sins be reveled" and Yeshua explicitly saying "AFTER the Tribulation of those days"
Not the rapture of the church.
@@marclaclear6628 Yes Yeshua was specifically His Parousia, something there is only one of.
@@Kuudere-Kun The ones taken are judged. That isn't the rapture.
@@marclaclear6628 First of all you taking material form the parable to interpret the actual Prophecy. Missler himself saying building doctrine on Parables is sketchy.
Secondly yes the Raptures are still Judged, read 1st Corinthians 3, or Luke 12 where The Servants receive harsher then the Unbelievers.
@@Kuudere-Kun What am I taking from a parable?
Paul said that our gathering together with Christ cannot happen until the falling away and the man of sin is revealed. That does not sound like eminence to me.
It's not. You are right.
Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years before. Don't be fooled. It's very clear. We must endure until the end. It's just too easy to plaster an idea over the passages to make them say something they are not.
The pre-trib position is the one most easily debunked by Scripture. It's unfortunate that anyone would be led astray.
I used to beleive in the pre-trib rapture so I have given it more than a glance. I really believe that the mansions He is preparing is our heavenly bodies. It fits nicely with the Scripture I gave and also, if they were literal mansions, one would think He would have had them ready by Rev 6:9. Yet I see no mansions:
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Refine is the same for us. I don't know how u draw ur lines 2 decide that this is 4 them, but not 4 us.
v. re·fined, re·fin·ing, re·fines
1 To reduce to a pure state; purify.
2 To remove by purifying.
3 To free from coarse, unsuitable, or immoral characteristics: refined his manners; refined her speaking style.
v.intr.
1 To become free of impurities.
2 To acquire polish or elegance.
3 To use precise distinctions and subtlety in thought or speech.
Miss your teachings
Don't miss your heresy Chuck.
@@e.garcia618 Of which heresy are you referring to?
Well #1 Chuck believes the church will be raptured off the earth and will go to heaven for some kind of picnic or supper.
Someone has to go outside of scripture to believe this, don’t you agree?
If you agree this happens then I need 2 verses that confirms this happening.
@@e.garcia618 No, I think he's right on this one.
@@doctortabby but you have no supporting scripture for your belief, there’s why our churches are dying is for lack of knowledge,
Catholics do the same thing, they have many doctrines they can’t substantiate with scripture and “ us bible believers” criticize them when most evangelical churches are just as bad.
Much love brother but you better learn to think for yourself and dig deep into Gods word
A reasonable argument.
If pre-trib then Jesus's caution that, "Whoever endures to the end will be saved," doesn't carry much weight. "The End" could mean the end of the tribulation but then the Post-trib/Snack Lunch approach would occur. It seems more reasonable that enduring through the end of the beginning stages of the trib with the expectancy that He can come at any second is a sound approach.
Regardless, the expectancy of His return seems to be the key.
I'm not smart enough to figure it out, but what I can say is, Pray for Pre Trib, prepare for post , Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh
Yes, watch for the signs of his return. He said we will know the season. You are smart enough "For God is not a God of confusion..." (1 Corinthians 14:33) The Bible is super, super clear that the rapture takes place after the tribulation at Jesus return. There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports a pre-trib rapture. Everything Chuck Missler said can easily be debunked.
@@theextreme7134 John Jesus’ Parting Words to His Disciples
14:1 “Do not let your hearts be distressed. You believe in God; believe also in me. 14:2 There are many dwelling places in my Father’s house. Otherwise, I would have told you, because I am going away to make ready a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and make ready a place for you, I will come again and take you to be with me, so that where I am you may be too. 14:4 And you know the way where I am going.”
Is one point I would like you clarify.
@@jacobsenh7383 First of all, what makes you believe this passage has anything to do with a pre-trib rapture??? Jesus said this to the original disciples, and clearly they were not raptured. It becomes obvious Jesus was referring to his second coming at the consummation of the age. Proof is in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."
@@theextreme7134 yes this the sama avent the caught up (harpoon, rapture).
Not the second comming.
No they they were not raptured but expected to be any time.
@@jacobsenh7383 The rapture happens at the second coming. There is only one second coming Hebrews 9:28 "so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a SECOND TIME, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him."
Fits perfectly with
Revelation 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
There you have an awesome picture of the rapture. Yes it is ESCAPE from trials coming on whole world.
but Jesus prayed that his disciples not be taken out of the world, only kept from the evil one
John.6
[39] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
4 our light, momentary affliction (this slight distress of the passing hr) is ever more & more abundantly preparing & producing & achieving 4 us an everlasting WEIGHT OF GLORY [beyond all measure, excessively surpassing all comparisons & all calculations, a vast & transcendent glory & blessedness never to cease!] IICo4:17 Light, momentary affliction can include; rape, murdered, molested by father, lied to, loss of family, bullied, slandered,etc... Any suffering we do adds 2 this weight of glory!
As a pre-wrath believer myself, I object to the objections that Chuck Missler throws my way. His objection about imminency is a prime example of essentially demanding that I look at certain passages the way he does. The alleged imminency passages do not mean "Christ can come back at any moment". Rather, these can be viewed as Christ teaching us to expect his coming, but that it cannot happen at any moment.
Imminency means there are NO SIGNS to signal the snatching away is coming.... just like in a Jewish wedding process. Only the Father knows when His Son is ready to catch away His Bride.
U r telling me that u r perfected? U have no characteristics that need 2 b refined, u love perfectly, u give perfectly, u behave perfectly,U extend grace &mercy perfectly? Like Jesus? U no longer require anymore revelation/understanding/teaching? Thats what u r saying. God uses trials, suffering&tribulation as teachers. Again, after I suffered the loss of my husband, I have more patients,mercy,grace etc.. then before my loss. Im even more thankful. Learning from trials r unforgettable lessons.
Please help me with this then :
Mathew 13:29
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
@@alexthurman6808 exactly my point. Notice Mathew 24: 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
If Read in context: It was NOT good in Noah"s time to be "Taken away" the wicked were taken away.
@@StandingInTheGAPMinistriesInc, in the days of Noah, people were swept away in God’s wrath, but in the days of Lot, people who remained behind were destroyed in God’s wrath. Therefore, claims that the days of Noah example somehow unlocks the meaning of being taken or left behind by the eagles, and that being taken is a bad thing, are false.
Bible History Science the context in which Jesus was speaking in Mathew 24 is Noah’s day
@@StandingInTheGAPMinistriesInc, please compare that with Luke 17 where the context is the days of Lot, then explain why you think being swept away to destruction unlocks the eagle metaphor instead of being left behind to destruction.
Bible History Science well aware of Luke 17. Pastored nearly 30 years . I’m full of the Holy Ghost . We are talking the context of Mathew 24 are we not ? The same argument you are trying to make about Lot stands true for Noah !!!!!! No where does Jesus mention one taken, one left in dealing with the CONTEXT of Lot . No where !! He said Lot left . How do you get raptured out of that ? Same context says his wife looked back . How is looking back possible once one is being raptured ? Where is that in the Bible ? John 17 Jesus prays “ don’t take them out of the world keep them from the evil in the world . We will be raptured or caught up the issue is at what time ! At the last Trump of God .
Let me ask you this. IF it were actual mansions then why do we see souls of the beheaded under the altar and not comfortable in their mansions?
what about the fact that the sun and the moon going dark is only a one-time event in Jesus says that immediately after that happens he will come and take the church? What about the fact that Jesus says that until the abomination of desolation is revealed he will not return? those are the only two things that make me believe in the post tribulation rapture. There's a difference between the day of the Lord and the day of christ. The day of the Lord is the rapture and the day of Christ is when Christ comes back and destroys the Earth. It's a burden that's on my mind everyday
No, the day of the Lord is the day of Christ. He creates a new heavens and new earth when he returns. See 2 Peter 3.
Question: what exactly is the "problem" with believing in a post-trib rapture? It makes us ready and prepared to face persecution, which we are supposed to be prepared for. It makes us take our faith seriously instead of ignoring the signs and sitting back waiting. And if it turns out to be wrong, what harm is done? However, the same cannot be said of a pre-trib belief, in fact, the opposite can be said. Why do you feel the need to prohibit believers from readying themselves for what might come?
In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." John 14:2-4
The key words here are... .I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going."
Where did Jesus go...To heaven! READ IT
This is false teaching. The man of sin is revealed and the falling away. Does fall away mean to go upwards?
true, many saints disagree on this one more than any other, I am glad it is not a salvation issue, I can see how easy it is to take any of the views.
Best to prepare for the worst, and pray for the best, that way you are covered.
I believe post trib is correct, because that is the early church view, and I think it lines up with the bible more.but I can be wrong.
Thank you sir for your reply. Mat 24:21 Jesus speaking to the disciples and now to all saints "For then shall be great tribulation such was as not since the beginning of the world to this time no nor ever shall be". Yes the saints will have tribulation, as Jesus says here, and in other places, and again in Rev 6, then He will come. We are not relieved of tribulation, but when He comes, we who are alive will meet Him in the air with the saints. Blessings to you.
James Smith The keys words there being ALIVE and REMAIN the REMNANT what jappened to the rest?
@@slojogojo2766 - The antichrist is going to make war with the saints and will be allowed to conquer them - i.e. kill them (Rev. 13:7). The slain saints' souls will be under the alter in heaven waiting until the full number of the killed come in (Rev. 6:9-10).
The tribulation is not God's Wrath that's why they're called two separate things.
...knowing that the same (identical) sufferings are appointed to your brotherhood (the whole body of Christians) throughout the world. IPet 5:9Amp For you have been granted [the privilege] for Christ’s sake not only to believe in (adhere to, rely on, and trust in) Him, but also to suffer in His behalf. Phil 1:29 Amp ...and [telling them] that it is through many hardships and tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God. Act 14:22 Amp
Wedding supper of the Lamb sounds like one dinner. How does one dinner turn into 7 years?
Yeah. We are all one body, but if there was a pre-trib rapture there would need to be two wedding feasts. One for the raptured church and then one for all the tribulation saints after the tribulation. Makes no sense, the Bible does not mention two wedding feasts.
There is a differnce between the Great Tribulation and God's Wrath,God,s Wrath is after the Great Tribulation.
The Bible is clear. The day of the Lord and the Gathering of the believers is at the end of the Tribulation.
Your points are Strawmans
There is no imminent return.
The Bible gives us several things to look for preceding Jesus’ return
Also, it says the marriage of the Lamb is come (about to take place) NOT has taken place already. Note that it says His bride has made herself ready. Did it really take her 7 years to get ready? Wasn't she already in her glorified body and perfect? Yes.
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, THE HOUR IS COME; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Did the hour just occur or is it about to happen? Same thing can be said with "the marriage of the Lamb is come".
The whole focus of that passage is our comfort in Christ. Just because it stops at the mention of our gathering doesn't mean nothing else takes place after.
There is simply not enough room to always speak about everything at once, so they simply focus on the purpose of the passage and that one was to comfort those mourning for their dead.
I should also mention that Matthew 24 says nothing about Christ's feet touching the ground. And you can't say John 14:3 refers to the church if you...
Absolutely! I was very surprised that Mr. Missler would take this approach, in fact I am very disappointed and feel that he has lost some credibility with me.
I agree and furthermore, how does post Trib deny imminemecy?
He's right
@@drew2fast489 Of course that was 8 years ago and I have come around a bit since then. God bless the memory of Mr. Missler.
@@sheilayoung6590, I have heard the word imminency used rather broadly by a variety of Bible teachers and to some, it means *soon* and to some, it means *at any moment from the present to a month of Sundays*. I wonder if they just like the sound of it and leave the listener to let it mean whatever he or she interprets it by the context of the message being presented.
@@botzees time works wonders doesn't it? 👋
Obey Acts 2:38, before it's too late!!
Verse 39 says it's a promise, yours and mine!!
Hurry!!!!
Yes, amen.
Here is our blessed hope:
For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us. Christ died for us so that, whether we are DEAD or ALIVE when he RETURNS, we can live with him forever. So encourage each other and build each other up, just as you are already doing.
He does not return until the end. The bible repeats that over and over again and tells you not to be deceived if anyone else speaks anything different.
You can prove 100% there is a post tribulation rapture with only 2 passages. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and Revelation 20:4-5. 1 Thessalonians says the resurrection and the rapture happen together. Revelation 20:4-5 talks about the tribulation Saints slain by the beast who will live again to rule with Christ in the thousand year reign. "This is the first resurrection" (Rev 20:5). You CAN'T resurrect tribulation Saints before the tribulation, they have not died yet. 100% proof of a post tribulation rapture. The debate is over.
I guess you know more than jesus? He said immediately after the tribulations of those days. The word after means post. When you say we are to expect jesus at anytime that means us dying as individuals not the rapture. You are looking over the fact the revelation chapter 20. Verse 4 and 5 states that the first resurrection happens after the mark of the beast
A verse in Matthew that is meant for Israel. The Church is not Israel.
You expect him at any moment, whether you are pre, mid, or post.
You can die at anytime from anything, anywhere.
The tribulation, is not God's wrath.
There will be more than enough time, to rapture the saints at the end, and pour out Gods wrath, this is God we are talking about.
To be honest, no one of us knows for sure, it is best to prepare for worst, and hope for the best, otherwise, you will be ill prepared, if your pre, or mid trib.
The last trump, the seventh trump, not before.
what???? The Tribulation is not God's wrath?
What color is the sky on your planet?
If you are prepared for an any moment APPEARANCE of Yeshua to call you up to Him, then you are THE.MOST.PREPARED to leave this planet.
"The Last Trump" refers to the 100th shofar blast at the Feast of Trumpets, Yom Teruah. It can NOT refer to the 7th trumpet judgment in Revelation as Revelation was written at least 35 years AFTER Paul's revelation of the church's snatching away.
@@sigalsmadar4547
always be prepared to die because we all can die at any time any moment anywhere anyplace from anything tribulation or not
the tribulation is not Gods wrath, its satans wrath on gods people, gods wrath comes after that at the last trump.
god bless and stay in his word.
christians regularly debate this.
REVELATION 14:9 references the mark of the beast.
REVELATION 14:13, "Blessed are the dead which die in THE LORD henceforth".
REVELATION 14:16 references the Post Tribulation rapture.
REVELATION 14:18-20 references the winepress of Armageddon.
JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.
Hank Bevers, according to the parable of wheat and tares, those who take the mark of the beast will be harvested and thrown into the Lake of Fire before tribulation saints are ingathered to Jesus. But Rev 14 shows the Lord harvesting saints from among the clouds before the harvest of the wicked. This is one of the evidences of the Rapture before the ingathering at his second coming, and other evidence shows the Rapture happening not very long before the great tribulation starts.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 The events of MATTHEW 13:39 and MATTHEW 13:49 will occur at “the end of the world” (KJV).
*
However, some people have been claiming that the events of MATTHEW 13:39 and MATTHEW 13:49 will occur 1,000 years before the end of the Millennial Kingdom.
*
At the end of the Millennial Kingdom, “the tares” of MATTHEW 13:30 / MATTHEW 13:40 will be gathered from “HIS kingdom” (MATTHEW 13:41).
*
Equating MATTHEW 13:30 with REVELATION 14:16-19 is wrong, and doing so generates confusion:
*
REVELATION 14:16-20 is Christian Rapture first / Armageddon next.
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MATTHEW 13:30 is tares first / wheat next.
*
The Millennial Kingdom starts at the time of REVELATION 14:20.
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The Millennial Kingdom ends at the time of MATTHEW 13:30 (MATTHEW 13:41-42).
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If the wicked people were gathered before the Battle of Armageddon, then there would not be any bad guys at the Battle of Armageddon……not bad guys…..no battle.
.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 REVELATION 20:9 will occur 1,000 years AFTER the Battle of Armageddon.
In REVELATION 20:9, wicked people get removed from Earth while GOD'S people are still on Planet Earth.
tares removed FIRST, at "the end of the world"......just like JESUS CHRIST said.
.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 THE HOLY BIBLE repeatedly prophesies a POST Trib Rapture.
There is not even one prophecy of a Pre Trib Rapture.
JESUS CHRIST is the speaker in REVELATION chapter 11.
The Resurrection and Rapture occur in REVELATION 11:11-12.
REVELATION 11:14 prophesies that that will occur at the end of "the second woe".
REVELATION 11:15 prophesies that that will occur at the start of the Millennial Kingdom.
1st CORINTHIANS 15:23 proves that REVELATION 11:11-12 is 1st THESSALONIANS 4:16-17.
And REVELATION 20:4-5 proves that "the first resurrection" will include Tribulation Era martyrs.
And of course, DANIEL 12:1-2 is in agreement with all of the aforementioned Verses as evidenced by the fact that DANIEL 12:1-2 prophesies that the Resurrection will occur AFTER the tribulation.
And all of that makes perfect sense when we realize that (in JOHN 6:40) JESUS CHRIST revealed that the resurrection will occur on "the last day".
Of course, false Christians are teaching that the resurrection will occur 7 years before the resurrection.
And that false church has hereby been rebuked IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.
.
@@GODandGODDESS, Jesus did not say in Matt 13:39 that the harvest is at the end of the world but at the end of the Age, and Jesus expanded on this in Matt 24:29-31 where the nations (tares) mourn because their destruction has come, then saints are ingathered from across heaven and earth, which includes the surviving tribulation saint wheat. And we see this in Rev 19-20 before the Millennium starts.
And Jesus is removing tares from his Kingdom at his second coming because his Kingdom has come at his arrival.
You said “Equating MATTHEW 13:30 with REVELATION 14:16-19 is wrong, and doing so generates confusion:”
Rev 14:14-16 is the Rapture harvest before the great tribulation starts, and verses 17-20 represents the tares harvest.
You said “REVELATION 14:16-20 is Christian Rapture first / Armageddon next. MATTHEW 13:30 is tares first / wheat next”
It describes the church Rapture before the great tribulation starts then the tares harvested after the great tribulation and wrath end. Therefore, Matt 13 shows the tares then wheat but not the Rapture, and Rev 14 shows the Rapture then tares but not the wheat.
You said “The Millennial Kingdom starts at the time of REVELATION 14:20.”
According to Rev 19-20, Satan is locked up after Armageddon, then faithful tribulation saints will be resurrected and rewarded and survivors will be ingathered and enter the Millennium.
You said “The Millennial Kingdom ends at the time of MATTHEW 13:30 (MATTHEW 13:41-42).”
Again, that’s not the end of the world but the end of this _Age_ before the Millennium. And I never said anyone was gathered before Armageddon.
Also, Rev 11:11-12 shows the resurrection and catching-up of the two witnesses only. It’s not the Rapture of the church. Verse 15 is a proclamation that Jesus is claiming the kingdom of earth, then he pours his wrath out and returns.
1 Cor 15:20-28 covers the entire history of mankind on the earth from Genesis 1 to the end of Revelation 20, so it’s impossible to pull the Rapture timing from such a compressed timeline in which almost everything is missing.
And what do you do with Jesus’ resurrection if the “first” resurrection happens in Rev 20:4-5?
Dan 12:1-2 is not about the great tribulation but Satan’s fall before the Rapture, which is seen in more detail in Rev 12:7-14.
Finally, it’s terrible to rebuke people for not believing in your interpretation of prophesy, especially when yours is full of holes.
He forgot to mention it was widely held for 1,800 years.
Eric Mendez That's why Christians never argued about it until lately because never believed in a "pretrib rapture" until money could be made from that false teaching.
Jesus taught a pre-great-trib Rapture, so did Paul, so did the Father in Revelation, so did early church fathers. Then the doctrine disappeared for about 1,200 years when the Catholic church imposed a new doctrine in which the church supposedly replaced Israel. All of a sudden it because a crime to believe that Jesus would take the church to the place he told us to believe that he was going to prepared in Heaven, and then he would come to receive us to himself so we could be with him there.
It remained a crime to believe this for several centuries after the Reformation because the reformers did not bother reforming the Catholic doctrine. Dispensational Premillennialism was not rediscovered until religious and political liberty flourished again, which happened first in England and America.
Genetic fallacy. Its either supported biblically or not. Salvation by faith established not until reformation. Is that wrong too?
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years before. Don't be fooled. It's very clear. We must endure until the end. It's just too easy to plaster an idea over the passages to make them say something they are not.
The biggest problems with the Post-Tribulation is that A.) It's heretical blasphemy and B.) it's nonsensical.
You Posters are saying Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough; that He didn't pay for our sins in full. We have to suffer, survive and be judged to "make it into" heaven. Nice to know you preach works salvation.
And B... so basically what you're saying is we'll be called to heaven to "saddle up" then come right back down. Where's the marriage? Marriage supper? The Bema Seat
OtterloopB Since the martyrdom of Christians has been happening since the foundation of the faith how did you come up with that idea that the ones that died for Christ weren't worthy?
And if we are [His] children, then we are [His] heirs also: heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ [sharing His inheritance with Him]; only we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory. [But what of that?] For I consider that the sufferings of this present time (this present life) are not worth being compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us and in us and for us and conferred on us! Romans 8:17-18
Chuck Missler makes very good arguments for the pre-trib position ! Really enjoyed it.
Quote: "Also angels do not get to wear fine linen, white and clean"
Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Jesus never explicitly say that he will come back "before" the tribulation.
Next, the tribulation is not God's wrath. The tribulation is the Devil's wrath against the Saints.
Oh and here's the other kicker, if the Saints are raptured before the tribulation, then who is it that the Antichrist wages war with then?
Why would 1 set of Saints get raptured but another set go through the tribulation? Especially when Rev 20 v 4-6 explicitly states that All Saints (including those that experience the Great Tribulation) partake in the 1st Resurrection.
The people who get saved during that time:) the tribulation saints
The antichrist wages war with the Jews, Great Tribulation is Jacobs Trouble.
@@GoatzombieBubba Sorry, I respectfully disagree. In Rev 13, the scriptures clearly states that the Beast (who is the AntiChrist) will make war with the Saints AND overcome them. When is the AntiChrist revealed??? The Antichrist is revealed during the tribulation.
Where does the NT teach imminency?
If the rapture is secret as pre-trickers believe why did Jesus say ''watch''?
I can't find it either. Jesus says watch. What are we watching for if nothing will happen before he comes
@@harbinger1861 You are exactly right!
a) Does the language of 1 Thess. 4:16 (i. e. “shout…voice of the archangel…trump of God “) suggest a silent, secret rapture?
b) Is there anything silent or secret about a shout, voice or trumpet sound? Consider for a minute that the word “shout” here is an ancient military idea which was used to proclaim or publicize to all a military victory over enemy forces. It is also a cry of command, or we may say a war cry, or a charge by the commander-in-chief. If you wanted to publicize or make known a certain thing to all, would you whisper it or would you shout it? The shout of 1 Thess. 4:16 is not to be heard only by a certain eclectic group (the church) but by all. Note also that 1 Thess. 4:16 includes the “voice of the archangel,” not the whisper of the archangel.
@@e.garcia618 he will come with a shout and trump, everyone shall see him, its not a secret, but it is when you least expect it suddenly.
@@Tigerex966 Not really, after the falling away we will get to meet the man of sin as laid out plainly in 2nd thess. 2;3&4
Recap Gods word says;
1-falling away
2-man of sin revealed
Then the second coming, no such thing as a rapture taught in scripture.
If the strongest point about this is "it denies immanency" is actually incorrect because God says that He cuts the great tribulation SHORT lest all the saints (including the 144,000 on the mountain) would die. So, the second coming of Jesus Christ will indeed be imminent. One of my biggest issues with pre-tribulation is the fact that Jesus would have to come back twice in order for it to be true. Where in the Bible does it back up a second and third coming?
Heather, Paul said in 2 Thess 2 that he was writing to support the Rapture so they would not fear as though the day of Christ had come. This was because they lost faith in the pre-great-trib Rapture when someone convinced them the great tribulation had started.
Paul taught that the day of Christ cannot come until the one restraining the Antichrist _ginomai_ “arises” out of the middle, and then the he will manifest. Either this refers to the pre-great-trib Rapture, or Paul never mentioned the Rapture again after verse 1 and gave them a timeline to calm their fears that didn’t contain a Rapture escape or anything else calming on it.
Now if [all these things are true, THEN BE SURE] the Lord knows how to rescue the godly out of temptations & TRIALS, AND how to keep the ungodly under chastisement until the DAY OF JUDGMENT and doom. 2Pet 2:9
For all those who believe a pre trib ..imagine how many souls will take the mark if it's really post trib... post trib is supported by scripture ...if it ends up post trib half of you pre tribbers will take the mark ...prepare for the worst hope for the best ..pre trib has that saying backwards
amen James. pass along my pre-trib rapture challenge question to everyone. it debunks the whole pre-trib teaching in one question using one passage of scripture.
There's people still say there's no pre tribulation Rapture. This video they clearly must see. Also chucks rapture 1 n 2 videos. Amazing man of Gods word.
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
John.11[24] Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Yeah. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Resurrection on the last day. Put those two together, and there’s only one place when the rapture could possibly happen. How is this so hard? Because poor doctrines and indoctrination.
@@cruddddddddddddddd And because people don't rightly divide God's Word too! They use the Gospels as the New Testament, erasing what Paul said that was unknown to Jesus...
Louisa A
What Paul said wasn’t unknown to Jesus. Paul took messages that Jesus geared to the Jews and geared them to the Gentiles. Paul also used the Old Testament quite extensively, which Jesus was an expert on. Jesus’ rapture message is Matthew 24 matches up very nicely with Paul’s 1 Thessalonians 4 rapture message.
@@cruddddddddddddddd Matt is about the 2nd coming not the rapture. And Jesus was ascended when Paul received Revelation.
Louisa A
Compare the two passages: Matt. 24:29-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
Then go read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. There are certain events that have to happen prior to the rapture-the apostasia, or falling away from God’s word, and the antichrist must be revealed.
I’m aware Paul was not an original apostle, and wasn’t saved until after Jesus left the earth. I know you probably know everything about scripture and no one else knows anything-just like everyone else on the internet. But Paul said nothing that contradicts Jesus’ ministry. Both Jesus and Paul used Old Testament scripture to preach, FYI
You realize that I am explaining post tribulation, right?
There may be some that do believe that, I just happen to be not one of them. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then ALL who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. ICo15:23 NLT Notice, ALL who belong to Christ will raise, "When He comes back". Not just some, or 1/2, but ALL will be raise when He comes back.
But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell. Matt 5:22 NLT
Pre Tribbers claim that the Church is not in MATTHEW chapter 24. First of all, be aware that rapture / left behind scenarios are referenced in MATTHEW 24:40-41. That having been said, Pre Tribbers are actually claiming that the Church is not in MATTHEW 24:5-31.
What is “the Church” ?
In MATTHEW 16:16, Peter said (to JESUS), “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”.
In MATTHEW 16:18, JESUS CHRIST said, “…upon this rock I will build my church…”.
In MATTHEW 16:18, JESUS CHRIST defined the “church” as: anybody who confesses that JESUS is the Christ and the Son of THE LIVING GOD.
Does THE HOLY BIBLE reveal that the church will be on Planet Earth during the Great Tribulation of MATTHEW 24:21 ?
REVELATION 12:11, “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death”.
REVELATION 20:4. “…and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God…”.
You hereby see that THE HOLY BIBLE reveals that the church will be on Earth during the Great Tribulation of MATTHEW 24:21. You have the responsibility to never claim otherwise. This responsibility is permanent and irrevocable. It is not negotiable.
You know that you have been listening to false prophets of Pre Trib rapture doctrine. You know it. Go look at yourself in the mirror, and you will see a person who knows that Pre Trib rapture doctrine is heretical.
MATTHEW 24:29-31, 1st THESSALONIANS 4:16-17 and REVELATION 20:4-5 prove that the rapture will be a Post Trib rapture.
And if you want more Post Trib rapture SCRIPTURE, you have 2nd THESSALONIANS 2:1-9.
Your cup runneth over with Post Trib rapture SCRIPTURE. And your cup runneth over with Pre Trib’s false prophets.
You know it. Go look in the mirror.
JESUS IS CHRIST AND THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
what is the purpose of Daniels 70 th week?
how does the earth get repopulated if it's a post trib rapture and all believers receive their glorified bodies at the second coming?
What does "repopulated" mean ?
Hank Bevers it means who are the nations satan deceives after he is loosed after the 1000 years?
Who is it that Jesus reigns over with an iron cepter?
And who are the sheep in Mathew 25 31 46
JESUS will rule with a "rod of iron" for 1,000 years (REVELATION 2:27).
Subsequently, satan will be released.
REVELATION 20:7, "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison."
When you use the term "repopulated", are you referring to the Millennial Kingdom Era ?
Are you claiming that Planet Earth will be temporarily de-populated near the start of the Millennial Kingdom Era ?
Hank Bevers well by the time mid trib occures over half the earth's population is going to be dead, over 80 % by the second coming.
That's not including those who are cast into the lake of fire at the sheep and goat judgement. Scripture clearly shows the earth has to get repopulated
Not all christians/believers/elect/ go to church and this topic is one of the reasons.
Very few will take the narrow path,and teach the truth, many will be decieved.It's always about what they have been taught and not about what the Holy Spirit shows them.God help us all,Maybe the virgins should prepare,and the wheat and tares won't get rain.Who is controlling the weather anyway?
I like what you said about different people maybe having different ideas on end times, that is doesn't make them evil or apostates, just different views and ideas.
1 Thes 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: & the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: & so shall we ever be with the Lord.
No indication He is doing more than meeting us in the clouds. We go up to Him & He takes us home. to John14:3's mansions He's preparing for us. Fits like a glove
sounds like a thief, but not secret at all.
@@Tigerex966 thief as in you may know even is coming but you don't know the exact moment. But yes no one said it was a secret at all. When it happens everyone will know people were taken away.
In fact people today are actively expecting it as if its the only way to get their one world government going. They know Christians and Christian nations resist this NWO knowing it is of Satan and the only way is for all Christians to somehow all die off or to all be taken away from the earth.
They are looking for an alien abduction to be the worldwide catastrophe to bring about the NWO. The stage set as we speak.
Especially since Jesus also says it in Revelation 16: AFTER the 6th bowl of God's wrath is poured out! Behold, I am going to come like a thief! Blessed (happy, to be envied) is he who stays awake (alert) and who guards his clothes, so that he may not be naked and [have the shame of being] seen exposed! Rev16:15 Amp
BCV on the "at any moment" concept Mr. Missler please. Not knowing UNTIL the "season" is near is supported but no where "at any moment". However, the pre-trib rapture concept itself is correct.
First, the Bible doesn't teach imminency. And the "day that no man knows" mentioned in Matthew 24 is referring to the previously mention gather of the elect "after the tribulation of those days," not some secret, hidden rapture not even mentioned in the text. In addition, PreTribbers claim that Matthew 24 is not written to or about the Church, so the "day that no man knows" cannot be about the rapture of the Church (in their opinion).
There is absolutely no hint that the Church is raptured before the stated events. If fact Paul tells us that "that Day" (referring to the previously mention "coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him) cannot happen until the apostasy and the revelation of the Man of Sin. In addition, Joel and Peter tell us that the Day of the Lord happens at the darkening of the sun, moon and stars, and Jesus and John tell us that this happens "after the tribulation of those days" at the Sixth Seal. The Day of the Lord does not begin at the beginning of the Seventieth Week.
As for Israel and the Church being mutually exclusive...Huh? Romans teaches that not all Israel are Israel, but only those who believe. The Jews saved during the Tribulation become part of the Church. They are not some separate entity. In Christ Jew and Gentile are made "one new man." PreTribbers believe that throughout the Church Age Gentiles are being save, and then the church must be removed to save a remnant of Jews. Again Romans teaches that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of Gentiles has come in. In other words, a remnant of Jews are being saved and grafted back into their own tree during the Church Age, alongside Gentiles. Then Romans say "In this manner all Israel will be saved." in other words, a remnant of Jews being saved alongside Gentiles until the full number of Gentiles are saved. Then all Israel (that believing remnant and those Gentiles made "one new man," on Body, the Church. All Israel is not the physical nation of Israel (not all who are called Israel are Israel, but only those who believe). All Israel is the Church made up of spiritual Israel, believing Jew and Gentile. The Church is not a "parenthesis" in the middle of God's dealings with Israel in the flesh. The Church is the "fulfillment of the age"s and "all the things that happened to Israel are types and warnings for us."
Also, the Tribulation is not God's wrath. God allowed Satan to test Job. God will allow Satan to test His Church. Neither of these tests is God's wrath. God is separating the wheat and the tares, not by a rapture, but by persecution. The Seals are events that occur during the Church Age. They are birth pains, occurring with increasing frequency and intensity. Jesus said "These must occur, but the end is not yet." And most make the mistake of believing the rider on the white horse is the Antichrist. If that rider represent a specific man, the other riders would also, but we never here anyone telling us who they are. No, these rider represent what Jesus tells us they represent in Matthew 24:4-8. During the Flood, Noah and His family were "in Christ" for seven days as all kinds of clean and unclean beasts (nations) entered in. After the seven days (representing the seven year tribulation when the Church is safe in Christ, the Door is closed and the Church rises and God's wrath falls. The Flood represents baptism that saves us according to Peter. This means all this in the Ark have been "buried with Christ in baptism." They are the Church, the Body of Christ, all those who are "marked in Him with a Seal, the promised Holy Spirit (Ephesians). The Church is on earth and the Door remains open throughout the entire period of seven.
And the answer to your question, "How can the Bride come with Him?"
FIRST, the Great Tribulation occurs, lasting 1260 days.
SECOND, "Ater the tribulation of those days" the sun, moon and stars are darkened for a period of time. This, according to Peter and Joel, represents the Latter Rain Pentecost when God's Spirit is poured out. It is the culmination of the Counting of the Omer when the fullness of the harvest is brought in. It is a Jubilee.
THIRD, On some unknown day, the sign of the Son of Man will occur in the sky and Christ will gather His elect from heaven (the dead in Christ...absent from the body but present with the Lord) and earth (those who are alive and survive...the actual meaning of the Greek word gives a hint that those alive survived something...the Fifth Seal martyrdom ).
FOURTH, The Day of the Lord begins as He pours out His wrath for an unknown period of time (Feast of Trumpets).
FIFTH, Christ returns with His armies to defeat the Beast and His armies at Armageddon. (Day of Atonement).
SIXTH, The Church celebrates the Wedding Feast (The Feast of Tabernacles). All those left from the nations that attacked Israel will come year after year to celebrate this Feast. Christ and His Church (Jew and Gentile) will rule over these nations from the Heavenly City for a thousand years.
And the Bride Theft Wedding Scenario...it doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible nor in any Jewish writing (As a PreTribber to show you where it is found in the Jewish writings). this scenario has been concocted, invented by piecing together multiple comments and quotes to create a scenario that supports PreTribulationsim. What is true, however, about a Jewish wedding, is that the Veil of the Bride was never removed until the marriage was consummated. This is the reason Jacob did not know he had married the wrong girl. This is very interesting, because Scripture tells us that in Christ the Veil has already been removed. Christ has placed His Seed into the Bride. If He wasn't married to the Bride, this would be called fornication. At Mt. Sinai, God married Israel at Pentecost. So what this is telling me is that Passover represents the betrothal and Pentecost represents the marriage under the Huppah. What is the Huppah? In the Old Testament the Jews saw Mt. Sinai as a Huppah. In the New Testament the writer of Hebrews tell us that we have come to Mt Zion, to the City of the Living God, the heavenly Jerusalem (the same one mentioned in the Book of revelation). Hebrews 12:18-24
As for the 24 elders...we are already raised up and seated with Christ in heavenly places (Eph). And the restrainer? Nowhere in the verse is there a hint that anything is removed. The actual Greek is says that the restrainer "...will restrain until he is revealed in the midst." The Church as salt and light is the restrainer. But during the apostasy the Church will lose its saltiness, allowing the man of sin to come to power. When the Church loses its saltiness, Jesus tells us that it will become good for nothing except to be trampled upon. That trampling of the Holy City (the Church) is recorded in Revelation 11 just prior to the rapture of the Two Witnesses just prior to the Seventh Trumpet. It lasts for 1260 days.
.......HUH? "How can the virgins of Matthew 25 buy oil without the mark of the Beast?" Are you kidding me? It is not literal oil. It is just absurd, the weak arguments, twisting of the text, taking things out of context, picking and choosing what they want to be literal and what they don't, changing definitions of words, assumptions.
He makes claim after claim, but never backs any of it up with Scripture.
+Todd Ott Yeah he didn't tell which verse talks about the imminency
what is the purpose of Daniels 70 th week?
how does the earth get repopulated if it's a post trib rapture and all believers receive their glorified bodies at the second coming?
We were not here for any of Daniels previous 69 weeks because it has nothing to do with the church. It is for god to deal with Israel. If we were not here for any of the previous 69 weeks, when then would we be here for any of the 70th week? Were not plain and simply put
The day of the Lord is the day of his return, the day of his coming, which also happens to be the time of the rapture. We know from biblical passages that the day of the Lord occurs after the sixth seal. The killing of the saints occurs at the fifth seal.
And of no doubt, the living will not precede even the dead saints in the trib. The dead are raised first. We are given so many large nuggets of information to be able to determine when the day of the Lord begins, the day of his coming.
hate to repeat myself when I stated it down below but here.
We don't know its 7yrs before the final rez. What we do know is it is some time before the 7yrs of Jacob's Trouble Dan12:1
Here are some for starters since you asked rudely. Luke21:36,John14:1-4,1Cor15:51-52,1Thes4:16-18,Rev3:10,Isaiah26:19-21
Also look at Rev4:1 "And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here," God's trumpet call might be His voice, not Trumpet Judgments coming later.
If post-tribs were saying we didn't know when Jesus is coming and could happen any time, there would be no controversy. But the problem is that post-tribs say they know when Jesus is coming and that he comes at the end of the 3 1/2yr of Trib. They are saying the rapture is at the 2nd coming of Jesus, time we know. 1Thes4 shows a completely different picture. The world is left in its sin and Jesus only comes into the air and catches us up to Him. 2nd coming he comes all the way down to Mt.Olives.
Why cant people read the bible for what it says instead of trying to read something into it to line up with a doctrine than can be traced back to men and the men are not the apostles that recorded the Words of Jesus Christ Himself " Take heed that no man deceive you " and the apostle Paul " Let no man deceive you by any means " . Enough Said !!!!
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the BRIDE, the Lamb's WIFE.
Another good one Chuck! Keep up the God work!
Chuck passed away in 2018.
All lies
Good work? I like Chuck but he was just off here. Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years before. Don't be fooled. It's very clear. We must endure until the end. It's just too easy to plaster an idea over the passages to make them say something they are not.
Rev 16:12 speaks of the 6th bowl of wrath...
Rev 16:13speaks of the loathsome spirits...
Rev 16:14speaks of those spirits really being demons and
Rev 16:15 says and I quote, "BEHOLD, I AM GOING TO COME LIKE A THIEF!"
Please, explain to me why, Jesus would say that just after the 6th bowl of wrath is poured out?
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud cry of summons, with the shout of an archangel, & with the blast of the trumpet of God. And those who have departed this life in Christ will rise 1st. THEN we, the living ones who remain [on the earth], shall SIMULTANEOUSLY be caught up ALONG WITH [THE RESURRECTED DEAD] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so always (through the eternity of the eternities) we shall be with the Lord! IThes 4:16-17 Amp
Just so you know, Matthew 24;31 does not limit the gathering of His elect (the church is God's elect--all believers of all ages) to Heaven.
The Greek Interlinear reads literally "And He will send the angels of Him, with a trumpet a great, and they will assemble the chosen of Him OUT OF THE FOUR WINDS from the extremities of the heavens unto the extremities of them." Once again, I seal this with the reminder that the gathering of His saints MUST occur AFTER verse 29 of Matthew 24. Case closed.
One of your models works perfectly for pretrib.
I am amazed,that the biggest event is yet to happen.The gathering of the bride by the groom,and you will not even give it a glance.
One Saint of God is stronger & more powerful than the antichrist because greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world!!
That actually completely contradicts what scripture says. Jesus tells Christians whenever the Antichrist comes on the scene to flee to the Hills. If you are born again, yes, greater is he. But if you aren't, you're minced meat. Literally.
PRE-TRIBBERS, CAN YOU ANSWER MY ONE QUESTION?
How can I be ALIVE AND REMAIN at the SECOND COMING, if I have already been RAPTURED and GONE in some pre-tribulation rapture?
You can't answer it. When Jesus was asked by his disciples when he's coming back he said after the tribulation end of story.
Well Hello torture Tuesday! And people think my name is weird. LOL. Settle down. Settle down. I can truly answer it. I don't think you understood the question. It is AFTER the tribulation but this one passage I am deriving this question from in the Bible clearly teaches beyond a shadow of doubt that the rapture is pre-wrath/post-trib (they may turn out to be the same thing) in the English and the Greek brings it out even more-so. There is absolutely no way to get around it.
We already know there is not one clear verse in the whole Bible that teaches a pre-trib rapture nor was it ever taught before 1830 when 50 to 100 Christian cults arose out of the teaching (that' another subject altogether),
The question was a logical fallacy because BOTH cannot be true but if you are a pre-trib dispensatonalist you literally have to believe both because the context would only allow for it then. Reread the question and then the passage it comes from and think it over and you will see how easy it is to understand. ONE logical fallacy debunks a false doctrine. I have about 9 more that are in the verses they use in their teaching. I would love for you to get back to me and say EUREKA, I got it.
It took me 30+ years of believing and at times teaching pre-trib because all the other views were kept from the church in America and not discussed in the pulpit. I received an indoctrination, not an education. We should show all the views and let people prayerfully read God's Word for themselves and come to their own conclusion. It's a fact that many left Jesus in 1844 when He didn't return int he first pre-trib rpature fail and hardly anyone knew this teaching at that time. Imagine the level of apostasy that is going to happen when the mega-millions from around the world were taught this, are believing it, and it doesn't happen.
If they can't see this one, they are blind leaders leading the blind and refuse to repent PUBLICLY and that is what I am calling for. The church needs to get strong again and prepare for what Jesus promised us - tribulation and persecution for His Name's sake, His Word's sake, and for godliness.
The likes of Profesoor John Walvoord, Tim Lahaye and many others who taught this their whole life admitted to this on video. So why did they teach it? Everyone is making a lot of money on it I can tell you that much. Tim Lahaye sure did. I think it was just another itchy ear doctrine like the Copeland prosperity message, or you can create with your words when Jesus didn't taught that (taken out of context and goes back to the 1800's New Thought New Age teaching), or that there are two covenants (there are two different folds of sheep but only ONE sheep).
I'm trying to call pastors to repentance on this, especially the ones that judge prosperity teachers. This doctrine has many false doctrines within it too.
Feel free to use this challenge on anyone that is so adamant that what they believe is true. I plan on doing a whole series of videos soon. Many pre-tribbers believe there will be ordained animal sacrifice again is another false doctrine. They pull a lot of already-fulfilled verses out and throw them way into the future. This explains the already huge apostasy that John Hagee has brought onto the American church saying we don't have to evangelize the Jews who Jesus died for and he has some 21,000 churches following him blindly of which many are mega churches. I hear him quote so many verses way out of context it would make Kenneth Copeland blush. The Jews already began animal sacrifice again in 2018 thanks to people like Hagee. God's wrath is going to come down on that man bigly as Trump would put it.
God Bless!
I'm called The Sacred Cowtipper for a reason.
No, I agree with you! I might have worded what I was saying wrong though. I believe it's going to be a post trib /pre wrath rapture because I see no evidence of a pre trib rapture. It's false. You pointed out that you cant be alive and still remaining if you've gone up in a pre trib rapture. That destroys the pre trib idea.
@@torturetuesday5191 Yeah, I got one honest person. Look in the greek now and see what the word REMAIN means. It is pereelipo which means SURVIVE so those that haven't slept or got martyred yet in Jesus and have survived to the end of Satan's tribulation will then be raptured. Whether that is a pre-wrath or post-trib I cannot answer.
then take the word COMING. It is the greek word parousia which ONLY means second coming physical real return 2nd advent of Christ. So UNTO the coming (parousia) for those that are alive and remain.
Any teacher ignoring this after reading this is a deceiver and going to have to pay a high price for lying to the flock of God. That include Mark Hitchcock, Gibbs, Ice and so many others. They all know the Greek there so they are going to be without blame on judgment day. And I, The Sacred Cowtipper, am not afraid to warn them. They better read James 3:1.
I can give so many
Do you realize I posted this on over 20 pre-trib videos last night and you are the only one that took the challenge? I gave it to raptureready.com last year as they have many pre-trib writers that write for that web site- some big names and couldn't get one response. This whole thing is WICKED. I gave it to husky394xp and his 30,000 followers and challenged all of them against me to a debate on this and not one would take it? He went on to trying to prove a pre-trib rapture from all the New Testament books. I never seen somebody so stupid in my life. He tried saying there was proof of a pre-trib rapture in Philemon even. These people are deceived and being deceived. They are unteachable. Many would lose their ministries if they come out publicly but they are going to have too to be right with God as they deceived millions already. I've challenged up to 100,000 pastors, teachers, big name teachers of this, and regular Joe's like you and I. They have itchy ears and will pay for it some day. No different than the one that comes to Jesus and thinks they can go live for the devil.
99% of people or more that believe in this never studied it out for themselves, don't know a Jesuit started the doctrine fo futurism, or much of the history at all. They are choosing to believe it for no reason at all.
Thanks for the discussion. There are many other passages that point to a pre-wrath/post trib but I figure if someone can't see it in this one verse why waste time. Dr. Kent Hovind once said this, "Ignorance can be fixed; Stupid is forever." Dr. Hovind was ostracized by almost every Baptist church he preached in and that is thousands when he got out of prison (unjustly put there) because he repented of teaching pre-trib for decades and is now post-trib. He was literally ostracized like a heathen.
Pre-tribbers shout the antisemitism (they don't know what semitism is as ALL Arabs are semitic) card and replacement theology card (they replace the saved church ) that they all have wrong too but they are the ones that are for 2/3rds of all the Jews to be massacred because they helped them with their money to move many of them back to Israel. Right now 5% to 12% of those living in Israel are natural Jews. and they are paying to send even more back there.
Would you be willing to challenge people with this question? I think it is the only way to wake up some and time is running out.
I plan on doing videos on it.
Go for it! Make some videos and wake some people up! I agree 100% with what you said. I will watch the videos if you make them. I honestly don't think we have that much time left so it's extremely important to get this information out there.
If you are implying suffering or anything can add to our salvation you are at odds with:
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Paul is really saying in 2Cor4 (If your read everything and not just 1 verse) is that our temporary suffering is nothing compared to the glory awaiting us in heaven. Suffering makes us long for heaven all the more. Plz don't read out of context.
Matthew 24:29-31 what happened to its simplicity ?
Perhaps this is true as Jesus tells the parable of the fig tree immediately after. Referencing Israel and the Jews of course.
I think that is for the jews
Chuck explain scripture aaying the rapture happening after the trib in mat 24, mark 13, and luke oh 21 or so. You are mistaken my freind.
And where does it say Christ returns with the bride? It says he comes with his armies and elsewhere his angels.
Rev has the church on the glassy sea (before the throne) until pd of wrath complete. Then church (bride) reigning 1000 years with Christ.
Personally i think the story of Jesus meeting the disciples on the water in the storm at night jn 9 i think it
This matters, from the perspective that it was communicated to us. It does not matter, from the perspective that, regardless of the timing or what we remain for, what we have placed our hope and faith in is immutable, as is our assurance and future. Toss a blazing mountain in my direction. My hope is in You and I know that You have me through what ever will come. Keep arguing. What ever the truth of the matter (pretrib, haha), it will not change these things.
Wrath and tribulation are two separate things. Let me ask you this: Are the saints alive in the tribulation appointed to wrath? According to the pre-trib theory they must be because they are in the trib. However, if you read the passage in context it tells us what wrath we aren't appointed to, and it is the wrath on the day of the Lord.