Thanks so much for doing these tales from production videos. The evolution process is always fascinating to see/hear. So glad you included the plastic card box again! I really missed it in Wyrmspan.
Thanks Steve! We heard that feedback and ended up adding it later, and we have a variety pack of different trays and containers on our webstore to help make up for it. :)
I’m pretty excited to try this one. After playing Wyrmspan and loving it, I know this will be a hit and worth adding to the collection. And fish are dope.
I really enjoy the authenticity and transparency that you share in these 'behind the scenes' videos. All the dedication and hard work is so evident. Congrats and many thanks to the teams that bring these games to life for us to play.
Good idea putting the end of round instructions right on the goal board. I found the end of round tiles in Wingspan and its expansions very helpful, but I've noticed (seeing questions in the forums about Wingspan) that a lot of people just kind of forget about them. By putting it right on a board that is in play, it serves the purpose even better. (I've always really liked that the end of year steps are printed right on the Viticulture EE main board too.)
I really enjoyed seeing the process behind making this game. I'm excited to see some gameplay to judge if it is a good fit for my taste. Congrats on the upcoming release. Cheers
Thanks for the video! I really appreciate the explanation on the token art decision... my first reaction was like you said of your team's to put it mildly, ie that does not look 'deluxe!' Really like the look of the deluxe tokens, love squishy components and very thematic in this game since fish eggs are (typically) thought of as gelatinous.
Excellent review of the development process for the game's components. Your team's decisions make great sense and the final product really shines. The deluxe components are gorgeous as well. Will the wooden fish and squishy eggs fit in the scoop-able center well of card tray? Also, will the tray host sleeved cards? Thanks!
Thanks! The deluxe components do indeed fit into the center section of the container (if you remove the cardboard tokens). And the tray fits sleeved cards in terms of LxW, but the height added by sleeves might mean you need to store some of them elsewhere in the box.
Thanks for the video! It must be so gratifying to open up a game that you had part in creating. My feeling about cardboard tokens: They serve a purpose but feel cheap, the edges get worn, the color gets rubbed off, they start to fall apart eventually, and they are hard to pick up. But...cheap is great for prototyping. I appreciate these vids, thanks again!
My experience with the cardboard tokens in Finspan has been that they're easy to pick up and flip (they're 2mm thick for that purpose). They don't feel cheap to me.
@jameystegmaier I have more trouble picking up cards so it may have something to do with size as well. I think your choices for playability are spot on. Easy to see vs. artistic is a tough choice..
Man i love wyrmspan sooo much, just played our 90th game, but the loss aversion can be crippling sometimes, that with trying to min max and plan several turns ahead can bring the game to a crawl for me so i really looking forward to the personal discard. So eager to get my hands on finspan, thanks jamey!
Great video, i love these production ones, some of my favorite that you do. I know you typically say that you want your games to have a "component hook" in them. What would you say is that in Finspan?
I really enjoy these videos! It seems like there is always a delicate balance between aesthetics, functionality, and accessibility. Those original tokens do look lovely, but you definitely made the right choice to switch them to the final version. Is it January 22nd yet??
Thanks for doing this video. I have a few questions: 1) How many preproduction copies on average you do for each released game? Did you do more when you started compared to today? 2) How many unique fish cards there are in the game? How long does it take to draw so much artwork?
Previously we just received 1 PPC, and now it's often 2. They're very expensive to make. :) There are 135 unique fish cards in the game, and each illustration--which is hand-drawn and then touched up digitally--takes the artists between 10 and 20 hours.
Thanks for the deep dive into the changes. As the developer, how do you determine if feedback is a groups preference or something worth changing? I imagine tacit knowledge is a big factor.
It's subjective, but our lead playtesters are really good at sharing what happened, how it made them feel, and why they think it happened--their job isn't to suggest changes. So with their feedback I try to get to the root of their experience (particularly when they encounter something frustrating), and if I think it could diminish the experience for many others too, I try to find a way to improve it.
@jameystegmaier I have a gameplay question. Is there any reason you might not take the bonus on the first dive? If you choose not to take it, could you take it on a subsequent turn?
Good question! I checked the rules, and they say that the diver does go on top of the bonus (no choice there), but you may choose not to gain the bonus (i.e., sometimes you have nowhere to place an egg or you don't have a young/school you want to move).
It seemed like you didnt like the glass token much at all. Do you think you'd try using glass token in another game some day or did it seem like in general they weren't going to be worth it?
Awesome video. I really wish the deluxe components came as the standard components (wouldn’t mind the slight bump in the price due to that) because, - I feel eggs should be “eggs” not just cardboard, even for the standard edition, especially in a game which is from “wingspan” world. - I’m more likely to get the game as well as deluxe components. But then the standard cardboard components will be useless for the rest of their lives.
We certainly thought about it! But as Wingspan’s slightly lighter cousin, we thought we could reach more people this way (the pricing will make sense when revealed on Jan 22).
Oh noooo Jamey! To think the tokens originally looked like that! That is the one thing we don't like about Finspan! I mean, I understand why you chose to change them, but any chance you can send those PPC tokens our way? 🤭
I find it odd that for a game with this theme you didn't decide to go with bagasse and revert to plastic card trays. Especially due to the ocean theme, it really sticks out like a sore thumb to me and even more so, since you have proven with other games that it's totally doable yourself.
I hear that. We listened to what people said, and most often we hear that people don't want to store their cards in bags--they're more likely to throw away bags for that reason, and those bags might end up in the ocean. They like using the plastic trays, though, resulting in fewer plastic from the game ending up in the ocean.
Thank you for putting so much thought into this game😊 i am really looking forward to it❤🎉
Thanks so much for doing these tales from production videos. The evolution process is always fascinating to see/hear. So glad you included the plastic card box again! I really missed it in Wyrmspan.
Thanks Steve! We heard that feedback and ended up adding it later, and we have a variety pack of different trays and containers on our webstore to help make up for it. :)
These are some of my favorite videos on the channel 😊
I’m pretty excited to try this one. After playing Wyrmspan and loving it, I know this will be a hit and worth adding to the collection. And fish are dope.
I really enjoy the authenticity and transparency that you share in these 'behind the scenes' videos. All the dedication and hard work is so evident. Congrats and many thanks to the teams that bring these games to life for us to play.
Thank you so much! :)
Game set-up included on the player reference cards is a very welcome addition. Looking forward to this one.
Always great to hear about these tales and have you share in the video. Thanks as always!
Good idea putting the end of round instructions right on the goal board. I found the end of round tiles in Wingspan and its expansions very helpful, but I've noticed (seeing questions in the forums about Wingspan) that a lot of people just kind of forget about them. By putting it right on a board that is in play, it serves the purpose even better. (I've always really liked that the end of year steps are printed right on the Viticulture EE main board too.)
I agree! Just a little accessibility touch.
Everything looks so good! Love these videos!
I really enjoyed seeing the process behind making this game. I'm excited to see some gameplay to judge if it is a good fit for my taste. Congrats on the upcoming release. Cheers
@@VikingKittens you may have seen it already, but they’ve released a video with some gameplay
Thanks for the video! I really appreciate the explanation on the token art decision... my first reaction was like you said of your team's to put it mildly, ie that does not look 'deluxe!' Really like the look of the deluxe tokens, love squishy components and very thematic in this game since fish eggs are (typically) thought of as gelatinous.
Those inserts/card holders are just *chef's kiss*. I hate when cards slide around inside a game box and these keep them nicely contained.
Thanks! it was fun to revisit the tray and shape it specifically for Finspan.
I love this theme
Excellent review of the development process for the game's components. Your team's decisions make great sense and the final product really shines. The deluxe components are gorgeous as well. Will the wooden fish and squishy eggs fit in the scoop-able center well of card tray? Also, will the tray host sleeved cards?
Thanks!
Thanks! The deluxe components do indeed fit into the center section of the container (if you remove the cardboard tokens). And the tray fits sleeved cards in terms of LxW, but the height added by sleeves might mean you need to store some of them elsewhere in the box.
Great theme, I can’t wait for it to get a german or before an english version of Finspan/Flossenschlag.
Great job 👏🏻 I like your work on this game .
If you ever decide you don't want one of the sets of the two-sided wooden egg/young tokens that shipped with the first PPC, I'd like it.
We'll try to make that happen, Michael!
Thanks for the video! It must be so gratifying to open up a game that you had part in creating. My feeling about cardboard tokens: They serve a purpose but feel cheap, the edges get worn, the color gets rubbed off, they start to fall apart eventually, and they are hard to pick up. But...cheap is great for prototyping. I appreciate these vids, thanks again!
My experience with the cardboard tokens in Finspan has been that they're easy to pick up and flip (they're 2mm thick for that purpose). They don't feel cheap to me.
@jameystegmaier I have more trouble picking up cards so it may have something to do with size as well. I think your choices for playability are spot on. Easy to see vs. artistic is a tough choice..
Man i love wyrmspan sooo much, just played our 90th game, but the loss aversion can be crippling sometimes, that with trying to min max and plan several turns ahead can bring the game to a crawl for me so i really looking forward to the personal discard.
So eager to get my hands on finspan, thanks jamey!
I'm glad you've gone so deep into Wyrmspan! Loss aversion is indeed quite powerful. :)
Great video, i love these production ones, some of my favorite that you do. I know you typically say that you want your games to have a "component hook" in them. What would you say is that in Finspan?
Great question! I think the main component hook in Finspan are the player mats--they're quite dramatic. :)
@jameystegmaier i agree, watching the dice tower play it now. Much like wingspan, the art is great! All around, the board & cards 🤩
I really enjoy these videos! It seems like there is always a delicate balance between aesthetics, functionality, and accessibility. Those original tokens do look lovely, but you definitely made the right choice to switch them to the final version. Is it January 22nd yet??
Thank you! It was a tough choice not to use the full-art tokens, but they just got lost among the rest of the art.
Thanks for doing this video.
I have a few questions:
1) How many preproduction copies on average you do for each released game? Did you do more when you started compared to today?
2) How many unique fish cards there are in the game? How long does it take to draw so much artwork?
Previously we just received 1 PPC, and now it's often 2. They're very expensive to make. :)
There are 135 unique fish cards in the game, and each illustration--which is hand-drawn and then touched up digitally--takes the artists between 10 and 20 hours.
@@jameystegmaier Thank you for your answers :)
Thanks for the deep dive into the changes. As the developer, how do you determine if feedback is a groups preference or something worth changing? I imagine tacit knowledge is a big factor.
It's subjective, but our lead playtesters are really good at sharing what happened, how it made them feel, and why they think it happened--their job isn't to suggest changes. So with their feedback I try to get to the root of their experience (particularly when they encounter something frustrating), and if I think it could diminish the experience for many others too, I try to find a way to improve it.
Great insight. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
@jameystegmaier I have a gameplay question. Is there any reason you might not take the bonus on the first dive? If you choose not to take it, could you take it on a subsequent turn?
Good question! I checked the rules, and they say that the diver does go on top of the bonus (no choice there), but you may choose not to gain the bonus (i.e., sometimes you have nowhere to place an egg or you don't have a young/school you want to move).
It seemed like you didnt like the glass token much at all. Do you think you'd try using glass token in another game some day or did it seem like in general they weren't going to be worth it?
I think there's a place for glass tokens, but I think the simpler, the better (like in Viticulture or River Valley Glassworks).
I'm guessing that glass is more expensive and doesn't feel any better than quality wooden pieces. Also it's much louder on certain tables.
Awesome video. I really wish the deluxe components came as the standard components (wouldn’t mind the slight bump in the price due to that) because,
- I feel eggs should be “eggs” not just cardboard, even for the standard edition, especially in a game which is from “wingspan” world.
- I’m more likely to get the game as well as deluxe components. But then the standard cardboard components will be useless for the rest of their lives.
We certainly thought about it! But as Wingspan’s slightly lighter cousin, we thought we could reach more people this way (the pricing will make sense when revealed on Jan 22).
@@jameystegmaier That makes sense, thank you! Looking forward for the reveal..
Oh noooo Jamey! To think the tokens originally looked like that! That is the one thing we don't like about Finspan! I mean, I understand why you chose to change them, but any chance you can send those PPC tokens our way? 🤭
They really were very pretty, but they got lost in the art of the player mat. :)
I find it odd that for a game with this theme you didn't decide to go with bagasse and revert to plastic card trays. Especially due to the ocean theme, it really sticks out like a sore thumb to me and even more so, since you have proven with other games that it's totally doable yourself.
I hear that. We listened to what people said, and most often we hear that people don't want to store their cards in bags--they're more likely to throw away bags for that reason, and those bags might end up in the ocean. They like using the plastic trays, though, resulting in fewer plastic from the game ending up in the ocean.