IMPORTANT Orchestral Programming Tips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Already composing to a professional level? Join Paul as he shares 5 aspects of orchestral programming for the advanced composer.
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Recommended Sample Libraries:
Spitfire Solo Strings - www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfir...
BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional - www.spitfireaudio.com/bbc-sym...
Spitfire Studio Woodwinds Professional - www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfir...
Abbey Road Orchestra: 1st Violins Professional - www.spitfireaudio.com/abbey-r...
Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds - www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfir...
Spitfire Symphonic Strings - www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfir...
BBC Symphony Orchestra Piano Core - www.spitfireaudio.com/bbc-sym...
Hans Zimmer Piano - www.spitfireaudio.com/hans-zi...
Abbey Road One: Legendary Low Strings - www.spitfireaudio.com/abbey-r...
Abbey Road Orchestra: Low Percussion - www.spitfireaudio.com/abbey-r...
Hans Zimmer Strings - www.spitfireaudio.com/hans-zi...
Abbey Road Orchestra: High Percussion - www.spitfireaudio.com/abbey-r...
Abbey Road Orchestra: Metal Percussion - www.spitfireaudio.com/abbey-r... - เพลง
Hi everyone! I'll be answering questions below over the next few days - leave any qs or indeed ideas for other educational videos you'd like to see on the Spitfire YT channel.
Thank you, Paul. Wonderfully instructive video, especially (for me), the construction of an orchestral hit.
is there any reason why your session files never shared in your videos?
@@joshuaimmanuel3681 Hi Joshua - I use articulation maps made by BabylonWaves so I'd need to strip those out. If theres a demand though I can start doing this!
Thank you!@@sathurxy49
Of course, your template with every Spitfire library would be enormously useful to someone who also owns every Spitfire library 😃
1. 0:21 - Adding Solos
2. 7:36 - Adding Woodwinds for Emotion
3. 14:16 - Doubling Strings
4. 23:06 - Creating Orchestral Hits
5. 29:13 - Subtle Percussion
Thanx a lot! 👍
@PaulThomsonMusic - You should consider making these chapters for every video, it's easy to do and makes it much easier to follow, especially when revisiting. Thank you @mikazahar9425
MVP! Thanks 😊
Did you know why I choice your Company? Because you not only provide to us exellent professional libraries, but also the knodlege that we need to continuing improving in our composition, really no money can pay what you are giving for free to us. Thank you to all Spitfire Team.
Thanks Rafael!
Your welcome Paul,
Hi Paul, thanks so much for making these. I would love to see a video on writing orchestral crescendos. Things like how to make a big grand finale or epic melody resolutions are very rarely discussed, and I would love to get your take.
Additionally, I’d love a video on high dynamics brass. Spitfire is known for quiet and intimate, but I’m interested to hear your thoughts on writing epic brass, and other high dynamic passages.
Nice ideas thank you! I did make a video about how to make hybrid sizzle brass that you might enjoy a few years ago - th-cam.com/video/PJBWK8gscX8/w-d-xo.html
As a Spitfire BBCSO user this is incredibly valuable. Excellent programming and orchestration insights. Thank you for your continued commitment to the community. Regards.
Thanks a lot for these videos, Paul - they're really helpful. I especially liked the extra expressiveness of layering a solo string instrument over an ensemble patch. The 'subtle percussion' tips were great too. Thanks again 👍
Incredibly helpful Paul! I know I'd like to hear more about how one goes about choosing mics and what are common combinations of mics, especially when combining libraries like symphonic strings and Hans Zimmer strings, etc. I found that little tip at the end of this video incredibly helpful. Thank you!
Another great video, Paul! Thank you very much for your effort 👏👏👏
Thank you!
Layering individual performances provides such a nice ensemble sound. Great presentation, Paul!
Great stuff Paul. The little details can really elevate a piece.
Thanks Vinnie! I do think it make a very considerable difference when you do this finessing.
Great stuff again, Paul - many thanks!
Thanks Andy!
Thanks Paul, I always find your videos interesting and inspiring. Keep them coming!
Thank you!
So excited for this, thank you! For pen and paper writers there's still much of midi programming that remains confusing or unknown to us. Few questions:
Quirks of midi technicalities, like needing to program fades/overlaps to avoid audio mistakes or to activate performance techniques makes very little sense from a playing perspective. A comprehensive video on those tips would be fantastic.
More info on the types of cc curves for programming different instruments would also be stellar. I'm wanting to work with my graphics tablet and pen but I'm not sure where to start for shaping.
Updated mixing tips and instrument orchestration for using and blending sample libraries in pro mixes would be greatly appreciated.
Fine-tuning the tuning differences between sample libraries or mic volume differences across an instruments range would also be fab.
Thank you!
Great thanks for these suggestions!
It's a nice video, we really need videos like this.
Thanks!
I can listen to you talk about orchestral colour for hours. Love the reference to Stravinsky! 🎶😊
Hey Paul. Great video as always. I'm still at the start of my film scoring career here but these programming videos are always helpful. SSS perf legatos can be a bit tricky to program at times I find but I still love the sound when everything comes together properly. I've found I like to actually layer Abbey Road two solo strings in there sometimes as a sort of detailed close mic to the symphonic sections. It can add some nice color and expression when it comes out right!
Thanks Andrew! Yes the AR2 solos are really useful as layering tools. They have a different kind of close sound which helps to give them depth even mixed down into the sections.
@@PaulThomsonMusic Someone actually asked a great question up above about sharing the session. I've reached out to support about midi files for some of the library demos because there's some lines I'm really curious how they were programmed. Is this ever a possibility, to make some of the demos more accessible? I understand if not but would definitely be awesome to see!
I always say, when using strings the layering is more for two things. One for beauty and one for pain. Not only does that appeal to all audiences. It creates a timeless sound. Just pure beauty
Nice! like the idea of light and dark
This is awesome Paul, thanks so much, it's inspiring me to experiment and create different things :)) great video!
Thanks glad its useful!
Very useful tips, especially on integrating those gorgeous Abbey Road One: Legto High Strings in the arrangement.
Thank you so much Paul, this is so helpful!
Thank you so much Paul🙏 Very useful!
This is brilliant, thank you Paul!
Many thanks for sharing these advises. Stay safe.
Thanks Ben you too!
Appreciate the video, Paul 😊 you have a very approachable nature, and that comes across well in your style of videos, whilst also being densely informative!
Definitely would be interested to learn about your template setup (still no idea how to make one for myself!).
And curious if you'd be interested in making a video on how you use organic orchestral samples for sound design. If you contributed to the synth patches on libraries like Glass and Steel (genuinely not sure if you made some of those patches?) you'd have some gems of wisdom I reckon!
Thanks again! ❤
Thanks Joel! very kind. Template - I did make a vid a while ago: th-cam.com/video/WTyqCxH3vmw/w-d-xo.html - and yes re the organic for sound design - noted!
Thanks for sharing these Tips. Brilliant and helpful!
Thanks John!
Excellent video. Very interesting and practical. Thank you very much!!!!!
Great tips Paul I often double strings with other instruments to gain a mood or to emphasize a melody. Thanks.
Thanks! We can also pick up ideas on this by listening to the classical repertoire. Its chock full of great doubling ideas - straightforward ones in the Classical period, and then the more unusual stuff in for example Ravel's orchestration. It just about finding the time to study!
@@PaulThomsonMusic Ravel is one of my favorites.
Amazing layering and counter melodies.
My mind boggles at that inspiration.
Thank you for al your inspiring and musical videos Paul.
Thanks Paul. Loved the tip on doubling celli with trombones.
Thanks David!
Very ,very useful. Thank you Paul.
Hi Paul
I am a soo long fan from you and spitfire.
This are sooo great Tips from you.Thanx a lot.
There are so great ones,and i did never recognized them.I dream to buy the Abbey Road pro Orchestra....but at the moment ,they are to far away from what i can afford it.However, they are so awesome
.For the moment i use my SSS and Studio series too.And have a lot more to use from Spitfire like the Solo Strings etc.
But thanx again Paul for this amazing video you did !
Great video, Paul. It helps a lot, and probably inspire a lot of persons, like me, who needs some stimulation to be creative.
Thanks - me too!! you're not alone!!
Hi Paul,
I already own BBCSO PRO and other Spitfire Samples and I am very pleased with them and with Spitfires tutorials such as this one. Please keep producing them as they are very useful. What was the name of the fader controller you were using and what rating would you give it ?
Thanks! Choi Sauce Designs - 10/10!!
Another outstanding and informative video, Paul! Loved your piano & celeste triplet phrase (nod-to-Legend-of-Zelda) at 37:20 😁
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Paul!
Thank you very much, Paul. 🤗
Welcome!
How cool, now I can make my own orchestra hits!
Yes its great fun making your own!
Thank you for this Paul! Such a great video :)
Also, nice studio space and lighting, looks so warm and lovely in there. Are you using the ChoiSauce faders as your main midi controller?
Thanks Bara! Yes I love my new space! I am using the Choi sauce as my main controller - they have a really solid nice feel.
@@PaulThomsonMusic Ahh they do look very nice! Btw I totally agree with you about woodwinds being underused. I often just layer them with the strings for adding color, but they're very good for solo parts as well!
Hey Paul. Great video. If I may, what kind of desk are you using?
The solo embedded with strings is a very useful way of making a lyrical string line into the primary melody- our brains pick up on it even when we don’t.
Sometimes a solo embedded just makes the string sound better for the cue.
Or be ambitious and have a single flute following the lyrical track- just watch out for harmonics stacking when combining across types
Thank you so much for this incredibly useful content! My question: Do you have any tips on how to let your arrangement breath, have space for each group of instruments, would you consider it carefully while you are writing your material, or do you work on it in the editing and mixing stages? I tend to get heavy and muddy orchestral arrangements and wish I had some points and tips to help me as I begin composing.
Yes absolutely. When you look at a score, quite often theres a lot of white space in there. Don't feel like everyone has to be playing all the time. Space is good!
Thank you Paul, on some level it is easier to begin composing with that in mind, not quite so daunting.@@PaulThomsonMusic
I was wondering if you might do a video at some stage about the vintage mic positions in the BBCSO and Abbey Rd libraries? Other than the obvious “make it sound like an old recording” I’m not really sure what to do with those mics!
Great idea!! They can be really useful in the most surprising way sometimes.. its not just about sounding like 1950. Noted!
Hi Paul, thanks for the video! I enjoy blending AR2 with Appassionata. The solo plus medium-sized section is perfect. Both are by far the best things you have put out. I prefer winds though for some Holtz Venus vibes, so please please consider more woodwind-focused libraries. Question- I have Appassionata, Abbey Road 2, and AR-1. What does the new AR V1 section add that the others can't cover? Thanks! Appassionata has the advanced legatos, and is such a joy to use. I'm loving whatever you did with Appassionata and the tightness control. It is consistent across the articulations. Again, I need Appassionata-style legato for woodwinds. Thanks for reading!
Thanks Nick! Great combi with AR2 and Appass.. Noted re WW! The new AR V1 section is very very detailed and has more dynamic layers and legato types than anything we've previously done - also all of the other articulations are very deeply sampled, so its really the most advanced one now. It takes the Appassionata legato work we did and then we did further experimentation before settling on the way to record them for this new string section. Blends beautifully with Abbey Road ONE of course as same room, setup etc!
Thanks for the explanation!
Cool. I know that the advice "you have to work in the most powerful part of instrument's range" was mentioned in the context of orchestral hits, but It's worth to note that it's not a rule of thumb in general. For instance, in the "The Whale" score (by Rob Simonsen), there are woodwinds like contrabassoon playing in the very top of their range, really struggling there, but it very well underscores the struggle of the main character, grasping for air with every step. Just a random thought :)
Absolutely!! totally agree - I love the Bassoon up the top as well, very beautiful. In fact, for character using the weakest and least explored areas of the range is a great tip.
Nice Marshall half stack!
Thanks Matt! I've had it for many years - still going strong! If only I could play the guitar better!
Incrível... Muito bom, só agradecer!
Thanks Paul
Thank you!
Boss moves, nice one indeed
Thanks!
Thanks Paul! Question: the orange device with the controller faders, is it of a brand, or did you have it made especially for you?
Its Chuck Choi who is part of Hans ZImmer's team - google 'Choi Sauce Designs' - they're great!
Its all about master dynamics, articulations and know how the real instrument is played.
Music theory and orchestration helps, so I won't start buying a lot of libraries without grasp these concepts
Yes - if you have any friends who play an instrument get them to show you stuff. Also - we have some 'BBC SO' videos on this channel where the players show you all about their instruments!
Hi Paul, thanks for this video, always a great insight.
The fact that you aren’t moving the the expression fader has been a bit of an eye opener. I’ve seen others move both the expression and dynamic fader. Is this a personal preference thing or would you say that your technique garners more realism?
I do sometimes, but most often I try to keep it as a little assistance to creep in, or creep out of a part. I find that if I go nuts with it, I'm affecting the overall connection between played dynamic and output volume too much, and it doesn't sound as good. But - its still a useful additional control where needed.
Thank you Great video
Hello Paul! I have a question. I’m increasing my ability to score and write modern music as I continue to study. I have a small collection of Spitfire and LABS libraries and am working with BBCSO Discover and Originals Orchestra. Here’s my question: at some point I’ll want to invest in a complete Pro library. Will BBCSO Professional Orchestra be the best complete set for me? (Complete is out of my budget at this point)
And thanks for the wonderful video and tips!
Gianni❤
Hi Gianni and thanks for your kind words! It sounds like the BBC SO Pro is the right choice for your current stage. It has a lot of articulations, plus the slightly more 'unusual' (but becoming much more common) instruments such as the extended lower WW and Brass, and the soloists as well. Very complete and a nice sound when you have it all playing together.
Hi Paul. Would you be able to show us how to use Spitfire's GUI correctly, specifically in regard to sample purging? The main reason I rarely use my BBC over Kontakt libraries is because you can't seem to purge samples, meaning to use BBC you've got many gigs of sample data just sitting there chewing up resources. Fine on your $15k+ Macs, but on my 16gig 8yo machine it makes running the Spitfire GUI instruments impossible.
No problem - here is a useful video: th-cam.com/video/S_zka7iYNyI/w-d-xo.html - what I tend to do is just use the little pencil icon to remove any articulations I'm not using - that saves memory. We have implemented a new memory saving feature called "Eco-Load" which will do this automatically for you when switched on but it is being rolled out with updates gradually and is not yet in BBC.
Thank you very much!!!
So much thanks
Welcome!
Thanks Paul.
Thanks you're welcome!
I've never thought of using a horn with a cello. I'm lazy: if I need a tutti section, I copy & past cellos to bassoons, violas to clarinets, etc. or if there are harmonic things in the brass in a tutti, I just copy & paste trombones to either bassoons or clarinets depending on the range, horns to clarinets, oboes to trumpets, etc. I remember years ago writing different parts for different winds (outside of harmonic ideas with the same rhythm), and that was a nightmare to deal with when importing MIDI to my Finale notation program. So I gave up orchestrating like Vaughan Williams for a more simpler classical type orchestration. To the younger folks: yeah you can get a big sound with these libraries or using a real orchestra in a studio in a minimalist fashion, but to get a big sound in a concert hall, you need all your players doing something, and that means doubling!
great stuff
Hey! This pieces from cellos section have a name? I found same piece in Zach Heyde video about breath controller
No I just busked it in! Maybe its connecteds to something in my subconcious!
Question, Paul - I didn't think there was an independent vibrato control in Appassionata?
Good spot Andy! Confession.. I originally played this part in with Chambers and decided at the last minute while adding the Soloists that it didn't demonstrate clearly enough the difference.. swapped the instrument and loved the way it sounded so I didn't replay it .. whoops! lol.. busted
I came to the comments to see if anyone had mentioned that... was thinking 'I'm sure there's no vib control in Apassionata!'
Ah.. makes sense now. Been using Appassionata for a while, and for a moment there I thought I'd been missing something! Excellent stuff - thanks Paul.
@@PaulThomsonMusic
Paul, you mentioned the ASCAP workshop. Is this the best of its kind in your opinion? I haven't read anything better because it's industry linked. Tah.
I did this in 1999 and it seemed to be the best option available to me at that time, it was pretty unique. Great mentors like Richard Bellis, informative classes and a session with orchestra at the end. On my year were also Trevor Morris, Emmanuel Fratiani and Jim Dooley among others, and the following year I believe the great Eric Whitacre was in the class! I loved it. Very grateful to ASCAP for that opportunity.
@@PaulThomsonMusic I'll apply for it next year and see. Sounds like they selected the best and I'm grateful for your info. 🎹😚
Still want a video on using multiple articulations. The layout and all that.
Logic
Noted!
Hi Paul, What kind of Midi CC controller is the Red one that you are using?
Nice!
Thanks!
Thank you too! @@PaulThomsonMusic
Would it be naughty to ask why there was no scoring competition this Summer? It's Autumn now.
The year ain't over yet!! ;-)
What's the MIDI controller on the left, please?? The red one with all the faders?
what is that fader console you're using?
Good!
Thanks!
At 38:50 I really have to speak up because this is how amateurs are led astray by supposed reports from authority. Paul is incorrect here. Professional mixers almost never mix a real orchestra made out of separately recorded pieces as happens in sampling. Instead, they are mixing the entire orchestra recorded at once, and they will only add a spot mic or an area mic to individual instruments or sections beyond the mics picking up everything at once such as the decca tree or jecklin disc or whatever they are using. And all the other mics are catching bleed from all over the place (which makes melodyning a vocalist interesting).
Most of them do get sampled orchestras to mix as well, and in that case, they will probably use anything they're given as best they can, even if that means tons of redundant tree mics. There are some mixers, on some mixes, who will specifically try to strip down the number of mics in use, even favoring mono-only mixes, to reduce masking and gain separation, but I personally find the loss of stereo information so unfortunate that I'd only use that as a last resort, perhaps if the hall really sounded awful. When using samples, I do suggest using whatever's available and affordable to sound as good as it can, and since I have a machine that can handle it, I will put up all of CTAO if I think it helps. If I don't think it helps I don't. Yes after 40 years I know every hazard and opportunity in doing so.
Please let's stop with the "professionals do it this way" thing. I've seen professionals do everything. That talk can cripple aspirants for years as they lose all trust in themselves.
What is the name and size of the tablet/pen you are using, thanks
its the Wacom PTH-660-N - love it!
Just purchased a Wacom Intuos Pro Medium, looks like the same thing. Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated.
Paul is the guy.
Great stuff Paul. Question : What is the name of the pad and pen you are using?
Yeah; that’s a good question coz I’d like to use a similar approach for writing in articulations.
@@mattwallis1893
Hi Colin - its the Wacom PTH-660-N. I really love it, feels so much more intuitive than a mouse!
Thanks for the reply. I looked at their site, gonna buy one. 🙇🏻♂@@PaulThomsonMusic
@@PaulThomsonMusic Hi Paul, would be great to see a short vid on how you set that up with Logic and also the Spitfire Libraries!
No competition this year? What happened anyone know.....?
That's what I'm wondering!
Could you tell us what desk you have?
Sure - its by AKA Design, I adapted the design they did for the composer rooms at Air (specifically David Arnold's) - a bit deeper front to back, and a greater angle on the lower racks so they're more visible from above.
Hey Paul, I hope you are alright. I have been using probably all brands of Strings Samples and they all sound weird at higher registers. I hear very sharp or squeaky airy bow sounds from my monitors for VI and VII at higher registers which is probably the sound of the bow squeaking the Strings. Please help how can we get rid of this by EQing.
What you're hearing in a well recorded library is the sound of the rosin on the bow rubbing against the strings. Its unusual when you're not used to it, but definitely a real part of the sound! You can lower this with a high EQ shelf and drop it maybe 2-3dB at 12k. Don't use a low pass filter or drop it too much as you'll lose the sense of space around the players.
I've bought a few Spitfire Libraries lately. i've been programming/playing on virtual instruments since 2000,when there were hardly any good ones. I've worked with real string sections, and am not afraid to say the Spitfire libraries i've bought sound nothing like the real deal. These libraries "blur" really easily into mush. no definition. other libraries i own that are now ten years old sound better, IMHO. plus, the prices are extremely prohibitive. j.
I don't know if any library will be perfect - they all need quite some massaging. What libraries would you recommend?
Tip #1: A.I. will replace you.
ce n'est pas de la musique, c'est de la programmation sans interêt et sans émotions
Eh bien, ce ne sont pas censés être des chefs-d’œuvre, ce sont des exemples pédagogiques de techniques spécifiques. Mais merci quand même !