Shoutout to ToT for putting up with my ADHD brain and me not realizing when things were happening and making editing the least fun. Great video, mate! I've had similar ideas for other films for years...
I've been curious to see someone do something regarding Walt Disney's version of the Great Locomotive Chase, Particularly due to the fact it preserved the Tallulah Falls Railroad to an extent. (A route i came to know well after it'd gone) @@TrainFactGuy
One of my favorite silly details about this movie is that, when he's riding the horse along the top of the train, he manages to ride at full gallop for several minutes and only seems to move about halfway down the length of the train.
When I saw the title of this, I thought this was an actual 'Everything Wrong With' type video. I will admit a number of the trains scenes in this film are over the top and may have resulted in the movie going over budget, but the amount passion and dedication that was put into them really does show.
I will agree passion is there but to a train enthusiasts eye, it is half hearted. Because we know so much about these machines, that we notice where they went too far to just make action scenes for action sake. Don't get me started on locomotives with cow catchers never being given a coupling.
@@Plokman040 but outside of maybe "The Train" movie, how many train movies are out there that are 100% accurate, with no artistic license to add some excitement to the movie? Same thing in aviation and military movies; it is fun to make a list of all the inaccuracies.
OK, I read about a filmmaker wanting a field scene to be realistic, so he bought a farm, sowed, left it to grow, shot the scene, harvested, sold the crops and the farm and turned profit, even before the film released, but here they're buliding entire flipping railroad just for a few scenes! Man film making is crazy :D
@@TrainFactGuy "Christopher Nolan when he shot Interstellar" Yes; that is the one. Cooper's farmhouse was located here: 50° 24.383'N 114° 12.201'W You can see the disturbed dirt if you activate historical imagery and go back to about 2016.
The climax of this film is for my money the best train chase in cinema history. It’s dynamic, fast paced, as epic music, and culminates in a lot of dynamic train shots. I’m aware that the Jupiter replica isn’t fully accurate and rail laws are ignored, but the whole scene is a lot of fun. I’ll never truly understand why people have so much hatred for the 2013 Lone Ranger.
Because everyone keeps making odd life choices in the film, ie. travelling through the canyon, saving the main character then proceeding to keep info from him (Tonto maybe *is* a little mad) and also THE KID SCENES because apparently Tonto is in a museum exhibit telling some 6yo kid about this set of events about 40 years after they happened
It’s because of EVERYTHING ELSE in the movie people have problems with, the story doesn’t make a lotta sense, and it’s WAAAAAAYYYY TOOOOO LONG for it’s own good, just like the later Pirates of The Caribbean movies.
I love the train chase, its one of my favourite scenes in film history. I actually really enjoy this movie quite a lot, I understand why people don't enjoy it but I like it for what it is. To me it pulls off the pirates of the caribbean vibe pretty well. Though they may not be accurate, its one of my favourite movies with a train in it. Even better that its part of the story
This movie is basically proof that you can't measure the quality of a project by the size of its budget. I have a soft spot for it in places, but it would have been so much better had it maintained the same pace, tone and energy that the train chase climax had. The historical and technical accuracy irks me to no end, but finding accuracy in a Disney project is like trying to find a vegan who likes beef.
@@ADBLOCKER4TH-cam Yeah. I wonder whether a single diesel pulling in the opposite direction could - given just the right circumstances - stabilize the cars like that
Okay. I need to add more. First, the train would not be moving that quickly with that many buffalo around it. (and that's an incredibly small herd of buffalo for 1869) In reality, there would be AT LEAST ten times as many buffalo-contemporary reports talk about them filling the horizon in every direction, and taking more than a day to pass. When encountering a herd of buffalo, standard procedure was to come to a stop-colliding with a single buffalo would cause a total wreck. Charging into a buffalo herd like that would be suicidal-literally. And buffalo wouldn't be living in terrain like that without any grass to eat. Then, there's the fact that the train is digging into the ground and flipping over. As Hyce noted in one of his videos, commenting on a US Army rail sabotage documentary, trains can deal with a surprising amount of non-trackage. Not to mention the whole Canadian National temporary generator story. I think somebody made a video about that: th-cam.com/video/FWYbD2ga8DM/w-d-xo.html Regarding stealth track construction-there is actually precedence for it. Somewhat. There was the construction of a terminal facility at Promontory Summit-the railroad that built a siding there first could claim terminal rights, so one company sent a team out in darkness, and they managed to build a siding AND A WYE before dawn. Then there are the many examples of companies building tracks across other lines' rights of way in various "Frog Wars". Or building across the land of objecting property owners. Really, you have to appreciate just how empty and unpopulated large parts of the US are, even today. There are reports of lines being built in secret and presented as a fait accompli. Admittedly, I can't think of any that were built and then HIDDEN, but I suppose it could happen. Interesting fact-the first electric toy train was invented by Joshua Lionel Cowen (he changed his name from Cohen) in 1900. He sold it to a store to run in circles in a display window advertising a product. It got plenty of offers-but for the train instead of the product it was supposed to be advertising! The completion of the transcontinental railroad was (rightly) celebrated across the entire US. It's not inconceivable that the banner is commemorating this, or that the banner was left over from those celebrations (it does look rather oddly worn). The presence of the Jupiter is actually not entirely inaccurate. The Southern Pacific was created by the owners of the Central Pacific, and the two were inextricably linked from Day 1. After an IMMENSE amount of (sometimes rather questionable) corporate shenanigans (enough to fill several books and a couple feature films), the SP ended up being the owning body and the Central Pacific was folded into it. The corporate entity of the Central Pacific came to an end in the 1920s, but it was nothing more than a few pieces of paper decades before that. As a result of this corporate entanglement, the Jupiter could very easily have been dispatched to Texas. As it was, it ended its days in Arizona in the early 20th Century, honored by its crew (who knew its history), but not by anybody else. So the Jupiter being in Texas could have been feasible. The BIG issue is that there would have been no reason for any "stealth" to begin with. Historically, when valuable resources were discovered on land belonging to one of the Native peoples, the US simply dispatched the army to remove them, with the full cooperation of the railroads-when they didn't request the removal themselves to begin with. Even if the land had been set aside for those people in a treaty with the US Government, said treaties were basically worthless scraps of paper only acknowledged when it was convenient. The railroad owners would simply buy up the land or use other bureaucratic means to ensure that they got as much of a cut as possible. There would be no need to resort to working with nutjobs for something like this.
I’ve ridden through small reindeer herds on a train. Even then it’s at a snails pace. Going anything over turtle speed when dealing with buffalo just feels insane on a primal level
The ladder to the passenger car roof is actually something that I can account for. Some passenger cars carried water (for washing and drinking). While some cars used an on-board container, others (especially more deluxe cars) used a built-in tank for more capacity. In an attempt to get at least a modicum of pressure, water was poured into this tank from a hatch on the roof. A hose would be snaked up to this hatch for filling. I have seen contemporary images (admittedly, drawings) of this, and I do somewhat recall seeing a ladder on the car. So, the passenger car roof ladder is acceptable. That said, the under-frames of all of the passengers is much too substantial. Though that can probably be waved for safety/stability reasons.
As someone who thoroughly studies 19th century steam locomotives for my modeling projects, you were being EXTRAORDINARILY generous with your critique of their details. Both of these engines are clearly based off the vogue of the 1910-1920s. They feature stylings, proportions, technologies, and even tender trucks that were either unfounded or impossible for the 1860's. It's important to remember the engines of the actual vintage were dainty because builders were still optimizing firebox placement, which was typically set within the frames beneath the drivers. Tiny fireboxes can only efficiently heat thin boilers, and thus the locomotives were built to much thinner standards--prioritizing agility over size. Even that simple fact is only scratching the surface of why these locomotives are completely inappropriate for the context, but I'm sure no one wants to read a comment section essay. Also of note is that in the opening scene, the locomotive is equipped with a westinghouse air pump, therefor it also presumably has premature air brakes.
In fairness regarding the air brakes, that's probably a concession so that the trains would actually be safe to operate during filming, especially during scenes where they had the diesel shoving on the rear. It stands out mostly because it actually gets used in the film as opposed to being "in the background" so to speak.
@@BandanRRChannel The presence of airbrakes are definitely understandable, but I still think they could've omitted the westinghouse pumps given the fact they're fake on the steam engines anyway.
As someone who is also majorly into trains and also does a lot of studying (even though I freelance things a lot), I feel compelled to respond. I agree with some things you said, but take issue with others. Biggest problem: "Both of these engines are clearly based off the vogue of the 1910-1920s". Sorry, but no. Maybe if you were talking solely about the Constitution you'd be more on the mark, because it has some notable overly-modern construction (the cab and the boiler both stand out) despite the 1860s-inspired trappings. But unfortunately, you spectacularly derailed your point by using the word "both" and dragging the Jupiter into it. The *Jupiter* is absolutely NOT in any way "based off the vogue of the 1910-1920s". Looking at screenshots and other photos (which I'm doing as I write this), the firebox shape (A big bulge substantially greater than the boiler diameter-wise, and located within the frames) and the proportions seem fairly close to the actual 1860s engine and its replica - the running boards seem set lower, with more of the firebox and boiler barrel visible above them, but you can definitely tell it's based on the 1860s engine. Complete with a wooden cab and the running boards using actual wooden boards. It does look like the _scale_ of everything above the wheels may be wrong, but if so that would more be a technical concession to facilitate filming. Now, the stylings... Please point out what specifically is out of place there instead of just saying "stylings". Because at least on the whole, the stylings are very much 1860s. The ornate dome detailing, headlamp supports (with Jupiter's being an exacting match for the replica's), paintwork, etc. the big wide pilots, Jupiter's balloon stack, the gold plating on the boiler bands... those are decidedly more in keeping with the flamboyance of 1860s locomotives (as seen on the Jupiter and Leviathan replicas, and the preserved C.P. Huntington) than the utilitarianism of the 1910s-1920s. Nothing jumps out at me as overly modern except the Constitution's cab. You are however right about the tender trucks, which look nothing like the tender trucks of the day. EDIT: However, I think mechanical considerations may have forced their hand there - remember that the tenders of the prop locos are actually compact dolled-up diesel engines that provide the actual motive power. Technically, this is just *barely* in time for the trains to have air brakes. They would have been a brand-new thing introduced just that year - Westinghouse patented his initial train airbrake design in April 1869. What other technologies with the locos stand out to you as premature, if any?
@KaiHenningsen Walt Disney had a passion for trains that lasted his entire life and even did business with the ATSF for several decades, I think in a situation like this he would have thrown as much money as possible to make it as accurate as possible
Meanwhile in a parallel universe there's an equivalent "Shipload of thought" channel ranting about the incorrectly rigged vessels in the Pirates franchise! Great video as always, ToT
Just to pile on a little, the freight car that gets t-boned appears to have a metal underframe. In this era freight cars might have a wrought iron plated wood underframe or a wood underframe with wrought iron truss rods, but a frame of rolled wrought iron structural sections wasn't a thing yet. I would also note that Bessemer process steel wasn't available in the US until after 1875 due to a patent dispute. Also, for future reference, the use of brass or copper tubes or copper fireboxes in the US was pretty much over circa 1850. Wrought iron fireboxes and tubes (frequently charcoal iron) were preferred, at least until steel plate and tubes became available. Any confusion on this point is understandable, given that British practice used copper to the end of steam.
The biggest problem with the film was that they tried to create a Western film in the same spirit as Pirates of the Caribbean. The original story of The Lone Ranger was a gritty revenge plot that blended iconic elements of Robin Hood and Batman into a classic Western. The TV show that followed had a much more standard "Good guy wins, bad guys lose" plot element, but still kept a more serious tone. When Disney turned the story into a carnival sideshow, a lot of people were disappointed. There was a lot of hype surrounding the film, but the overall reception was really low.
As a teen I was utterly derisive of the Lone Ranger TV show, for reasons I can't remember. (Terminal corniness? And wasn't the Lone Ranger prone to pointing out the moral of the story at the end? Could be wrong). This ludicrous mess of a movie tramples the Lone Ranger meme into the mud and dumps all over it like a rogue elephant with a stomach complaint.
@@ErieRRfan Easy answer(s): Steve Lee, Ed Dickens, Doyle McCormick, The Claytor Brothers, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t know who any of those fellas are because a majority of Hyce’s fan base are just Foamers.
@@ErieRRfan Very easy Answer(s): Steve Lee, Ed Dickens, Doyle McCormack, The Claytor Brothers, etc. Hyce is still very young and it’s silly Foamers are already considering him the GOAT even though he hasn’t done much other than making a TH-cam Channel.
The dual reverse levers might actually be legit: Before Stevenson's valve gear was widely used in the US, (1850's) there was another type broadly called gab valve gear, and some variations required two reverse levers. So if this was a particularly old engine, it's potentially accurate. But then they never seem to use the controls correctly anyway so...
Look at the movie unstoppable. While certainly a dramatisation, it’s surprising how much of what happens in the movie has some basis in the real event.
Agreed, and the lash-up scene was going to be a thing in the real event, but wasn't needed as 8888 stopped miles before the 3rd locomotive could be used
At. 16:35 I can absolutely believe that steam is cool enough and at a low enough pressure to be safe to walk through. The relationship between temperature and pressure are very close and the fact you can see the white stuff shows that it is mainly water vapour condensing as it rapidly expands and cools outside of the pressure vessel. I still wouldn't stand directly next to an open cylinder cock but after being sprayed by many locomotive's cylinder cocks and blow down valves I'm fairly confident that those chaps would be fine.
you would have an aneurism watching Super 8's train crash. it hits a truck at ~50 mph and suddenly every single car on that train has its gravity turned off
I'm not even autistic but at 18:30 the historian in me wants to just say that the owners of the Central Pacific RR -- as stated, one-half of the OG transcontinental railroad -- purchased the Southern Pacific Railroad in *1868* -- the SPRR subsequently grew exponentially by building and linking and aquiring every robber-baron railroad they could get their hands on -- especially in Arizona, Texas, and México and fwiw, in a massive self-dealing buyout, the SPRR and CPRR were combined into the famous -Octopus- *Southern Pacific Company* in *1885* ...so, same railroad company, actually.
There was no standardization of design when it came to locomotives and rolling stock until the end of the 19th century. Before the creation of the big three steam locomotive manufacturers (Alco, Baldwin, Lima) there were hundreds of locomotive manufacturers not to mention many railroads began building their locomotives in house. Before Budd and Pullman dominated the passenger car market, many wagon/stagecoach manufacturers built rail cars. Many of these designs were one offs and can vastly different when it came to controls, couplings and brakes. But when railroads started merging and the need to reduce downtime became more paramount, the manufacturers started to simplify their offerings and the railroads retrofitted their equipment with more standardized controls.
For the life of me I can't work out if the film is set pre Westinghouse or post Westinghouse, but in either case Tonto was moving the Westinghouse brake lever into the Full Release position to stop the train and not the Emergency position. The effect of this is the complete opposite of what Tonto was trying to achieve. Also the wagon Tonto and his buddy were leaning against as the derailed locomotive slid on its side (with driving wheels still rotating) toward them, clearly had Westinghouse brake pistons fitted. The standard practice for railways world wide when operating mixed braked and unbraked vehicles was to attach all the braked stock to the locomotive and the unbraked stock at the rear of the braked portion. Some brakes are better than none... Excellent video btw. Well worth checking out all of Train of Thought's other videos. Hyce's too. Most enjoyable.
as much as foamers demand real locomotives, this is a case where they were right in not getting their way. the props were faithful to the originals but altered for their necessity, only hardcore foamers and snobs would have an issue with their deviation from authenticity
I have a photo standing only a couple feet from the left cylinder on n&w 611. the steam coming from it honestly felt nice tbh. but it also wasnt a jet escaping from the packing gland tho.
I mean a hopper in the Hinton train derailment was a head on accident, and one of the hoppers on the CN freight train flew into the air and landed on another hopper, but that boxcar was still too crazy.
I have been waiting for a video series like this for literal decades. A few TH-camrs have tried, most notably Gareth Dennis with his look at the first Mission Impossible, but none have made it more than a single episode or so without being nuked by the Copyright Claim Algorithm. You are certainly a brave soul for taking on this challenge and I salute you for it. Doubly so as this is frankly a big issue that deserves to have attention drawn to it. While it may be cheaper and easier for film studios to just use prop or even CGI trains instead of filming around the real thing, it also makes it so much easier for them to get things, as TV Tropes puts it, "Just Train Wrong". And while most may be able to brush it off as not really mattering, it does matter as it takes you out of the film; even if you don't know anything about trains, you still have a basic grasp of physics and realism, so every time a train does something it shouldn't or looks weird it strains our suspension of disbelief, taking you out of the movie. Not to say that prop trains can't be a worthwhile alternative, but you need to have folks in charge who know about trains, not just hire a bunch of gandy dancers just to get credit you didn't earn. Hence why you can waste millions building a 5 mile railroad only to get lampooned for every detail versus trucking in an actual steam engine and coaches from Nevada to Oklahoma for a few background shots that really do deepen the immersion of your film (referencing Martin Scorsese's Killers of the Flower Moon). And you shouldn't do half measures either, like Kenneth Branagh referencing a real SNCF Class 241P but then building a prop version with the smoke deflectors on upside down, a bizarre Deleware & Hudson smokebox headlight, and a stupid cartoon snowplow, resulting in it looking less like the Orient Express and more like an Indian restaurant. Tl;dr: Bravo to you, ToT. Long may this series continue. Gods knows there's plenty more bad movie trains to go through yet. Also, Hi Hyce! P.S. Regarding the wonky proportions of the train in the opening (I swear the freight cars in particular look too tall to me, one weird detail that even I didn't know until recently was that early railroads in Texas were actually built to 5ft 6in Canadian Gauge. In fact, the idea of adopting 4ft 8 1/2in Stephenson Gauge as the universal standard wouldn't really be a thing in the US until the 1880's. But in the film, the opening train is still on 4ft 8 1/2in Standard Gauge track, and I doubt the crew did enough research to inflate the dimensions to visually compensate. So it's just questionable prop design, not helped by literally all of the cars being built on the same flatcar chassis. Also, there was, and technically still is, a weird quirk of Texas law that states that any railroad company wishing to operate in Texas must be based in Texas, meaning that outside companies like the Southern Pacific would have to partner with, buy out, or form new shell companies to satisfy this law. In SP's case, they bought out the Texas & New Orleans Railroad and continued to use its charter for their Texas operations. Interestingly, this law is still in effect to this day, with a modern prospective high speed rail company buying the charter for the long-defunct Texas Central Railroad.
The engineer's outfit in the opening scene also appears to be period inaccurate. It's hard to tell with how dirtied up he is, but it just seems to be the stereotypical engineer outfit that wouldn't appear until the early 20th century into the 1920s.
So, giving the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt for no particular reason: that crane\derrick could just be there for unloading freight cars, though it probably ought to be somewhere where that would make more sense (like having a loading platform next to it, or on a sidetrack of something. If it didn't rotate, I'd be tempted to call it an early signal or rather a bad attempt at one.
Well, at least Constitution will always be remembered as a very useful little ten wheeler for the Lego Railways surrounding Gold City and Legoredo. Although, admittedly, the Lego version lacks any sort of number or internal cab controls. Seriously, all she’s got is a big black 4 stud diameter radar dish in the cab. This means that for my own personal copy I had to custom design and build and integrate a rudimentary set of controls and firebox. Plus she had no rods, so those had to be acquired, thankfully the Sapphire Star had the perfect new drive rods, so all I had to do was order an extra pair. On top of all that she had no whistle and her piston design made her too wide for the track she was intended to go on. But hey, she’s a good little ten wheeler, just only in Lego form. Oh, and to you who has said that a 4-4-0 can’t catch a 4-6-0, I present to you, NWR No. 2 Edward, who has faithfully shown he can catch a 2-6-0, known locally as James. Boom. Rockatoa, Brickticks out!
I mean… an American American type… (4-4-0) built for general purpose work wouldn’t… but a British built 4-4-0 built for express duties? Probably would.
Next you should review trainspotting, drug use, drug dealing, and stealing are of course pretty normal pass times for a train enthusiast but all I saw was a single Class 158 throughout the entire movie, a very misleading title indeed.
14:51 Also, if one of the piston connecting rods is lost, the wheels shouldn’t keep turning. They appear to not be slowing down a lot. Considering how the other set of wheels is in the ground, without the other connecting rod, the wheels shouldn’t turn at all (Unless it's one of those divided-drive locomotives)
It's very obvious from the get-go that "The Lone Ranger" was not aiming for accuracy at all. Yes, the movie did very poorly; it bombed at the box office, it wasn't very well received by critics (they criticized its 2.5-hour run-time, nonsensical and incomprehensible action scenes, cringy dialogue, and various other issues), and it won the razzie for worst prequel, remake, rip-off or sequel. However, you can clearly tell that they put a lot of effort into constructing the locomotives, cars, track, and other props for the movie, and it's very visually stunning. In fact, "The Lone Ranger" was nominated for two Oscars (Best Visual Effects, and Best Makeup and Hairstyling).
between the collaboration of 2 of my favorite TH-cam channels, lyrics of the song describing what was wrong in the movie, and little details I've never noticed making me rage, this is by far the best movie review I've ever seen in my life man!
9:30 the ladder is obviously there to get to the brake wheel that is also on the roof. for reasons. Yes, I know there is also a wheel right there on the balcony, and any wheel will do, so there still isn't really a point in having the ladder there, shut up
Why the hell would trains have steering wheels bruh. The bogies and wheels do that work. Edit: it would be useless. Why put one in when you can make the path curve for it and give it special wheels?
Without a doubt, the best TH-cam rant I've ever watched, and worth every invested second of watching time. Special highlight: the totally out-of-tune but ludicrously funny song that had me circular-breathing my cup of tea through my nose and mouth at the same time. BRAVO!!! (the crowd roars!) 🤓👍
Never saw the movie, and people keep telling me how cool "Unstoppable" was... Hyce and bucket about those couplers... I catch air lines on other "old train" movies and shows as such. Only in 1900 were airlines mandatory. I'm not 100% accurate, but neither is the movie. Well, that's Hollywood for ya.
I love the fact that they built a 1/1 scale tail chaser train set consisting of an oval of track, a passing loop and a siding ! I won’t bother to watch it, thanks to you I’ve seen all the interesting bits now 😂 I tend to avoid films with trains in them, I can’t cope with 1950’s BR standards in films set in the 30’s, or 9F’s in Deutsch Reichsbahn livery with large swastikas on the smoke deflectors…
The fact Tonto is a kook makes sense when you know his name is Spanish for "Stupid, dumb, or Dull" and really Depp just was born to play crazy characters. The calling Cavendish a Windego is actually realistic in Algonquin culture, as in their culture the evil spirit of a Wendigo is born from eating human flesh, not unlike some depictions of werewolves as it is often the blood of a human that causes it. Though this being Texas, yeah again Depp has to play quirky characters, I mean he played Ed Wood in Tim Burton's movie about said cinema B movie creator, who was quite nuts in his creations. Not too unlike Burton, how many movies has he done with Depp and Carter? Too many, including the aforementioned Ed Wood movie.
Depicting almost parallel tracks for no good reason is a common thing in many model railways where the modeller simply wants to depict two different types of line but it always strikes me as silly when there is a railway track that needs a huge bridge to cross a chasm when there is another railway only a hundred metres away crossing the same landscape where the valley has shrunk to being a small stream.
The D&RGW narrow gauge actually did have some combines and RPO‘s that were fitted with ladders and roof walks on them, for use in mixed train service. So I’ll give the movie crew a pass on that one, although they probably did it not because it was accurate, but because it was an easy plot device
This video was unusually long for ToT but I watched it and was incredibly entertained, especially by the singing part. I've never enjoyed a ToT video so much. Great work ! I would never have noticed the problems mentioned but the entertainment comes from the ToT narration. This video obviously took a lot of research and planning to put together. Good show! Impressive! Love it!!
What a fun video!! You have such a snappy sense of humor, an incredible skill in editing and a sense of comedic timing that's on point. And I haven't even gotten to the 03:00 mark yet!!
Fair, but also you can do some incredible stuff with locomotives. If you haven’t seen it, check out the General. It’s a buster Keaton film, and all of the action sequences are done with real locomotives from about this era, there are some truly spectacular stunts in that move. They drive them like sports cars, it’s great.
Are we just gonna ignore the fact the brakeman set the handbrakes even though the cars have air brakes… which weren’t invented until 3 years before the time….
This is a bloody good video. I would've never thought you could break into song during a train video and have it work, but it was done really well. If you plan on doing more of these, I'd recommend The Fugitive with Harrison Ford.
Now I legitimately want to see you, Hyce, Lawrie, and Antony Couls do a "four experts watch a godawful Western movie with trains" review/pisstake/MST3K.
Fun fact: to save money, the crew made the two engines they built modifiable so they could have different engines on screen without having to build more. The engine seen in the movie's beginning was later turned into The Constitution engine after the crash was filmed. I assume the Jupiter engine would have been modified into another engine, too, if there was a sequel made. But since the movie was a flop, any plans for a sequel were scrapped. Also, the Constitution locomotive and the one seen in the beginning are modeled after an ICRR 371 class, one of the engines Casey Jones drove. As for the couplers, yeah, the design would be a pain in the ass to deal with when shunting, as one end wouldn't be compatible, and you would have to turn the car around. (a lot) However, there is a knuckle coupler design that does have a feature to make it compatible with a link and pin system. It has a gap in the knuckle for the link to go in and holes in the top part for the pin to be slipped in. Also, I thought I was the only one who noticed that flatcar disappear halfway through the chase; I was like, wait, where'd the flatbed go? Did it derail or something?
The stupidest thing about the “dual Johnson bar reversers” is that one is to change from forwards and backwards (the main Johnson bar) whereas the second one is *literally* the regulator/throttle. And this stupid idea actually traces far back during the hand-drawn cartoons from the 1930s where cartoon trains had “dual Johnson bar reversers” but can differentiate from the reverser/cut-off and the throttle
Really liked this one , as a train buff I can understand the frustration, I felt that recently with the latest mission impossible movie. Where they did build a replica locomotive and launched it off a cliff. However it was the way the baddy disabled the controls of the steam locomotive that really made me think that it couldn’t be done with a hammer.
I should also point out I really love the model trains in the behind the scenes sequence here. Especially the fact a diesel engine was used in the engines' tenders as well as a computer so automatic movement was involved. Really fuels up my imagination.
This feels like it could be the train equivalent of the Fast&Furious movies. Next year they come out with 2Lone 2Ranger and Hammer's character pulls up to the opening race in a Mikado, blowing down steam from custom nozzles mounted in front of the cab
If this is going to be a new series, can we take a look at the trains in Unstoppable? It’s based on the Crazy 8 incident and is one of the few train movies I can think of being based on real life events.
This is why “Train of Thought” is a musical man in history.📈 🎵[LYRICS BEGINS]🎶 That’s the wrong lever to start the train The boiler pressure’s naught again Why do none of the cars have their brakes applied? *That’s Dangerous!* Not sure boilers are that bullet proof Why are all those men up on that roof? It could hold their weight but the horse’s hoof Would *LIIIIKELY* go through it! He grabbed the throttle wrong You need to pull it back to go forwards Switch stands only indicate direction Hitting them won’t change the points How is a 4-4-0 catching up? A Ten-wheeler should be way ahead of them, Maybe they’d be faster. if they fixed all the leaking joints Also there’s this bit with the air brake *But…* We’ve already been over that… Why’s there another track going up that ridge? They did an awful job when they built that bridge How’d he fit a horse in the carriage? The *dooooor* isn’t wide enough! The cars going faster than the train Look there’s those weird couplers again Why’s a brake wheel there? It’d be such a pain to reach when you want to stop Why are passengers still aboard- A train that was stopped in the town? You’d think they’d walk around and celebrate the railway opening Somehow these hopper cars Are moving faster than before They really should have stopped Climbing that steep grade Speaking of grades, let’s look at this track: For some reason the railway spilts into two separate lines but both travel along the same path It wasn’t unheard of for two lines to be built Parallel during the construction of the transcontinental But to have both in a canyon like this is pretty damn mental One track is like a rollercoaster Going up, down and around That seems a lot of wasted effort Surely you’d choose the route Much closer to the ground The grades are just too steep for an engine to climb It’s stupid. It’s janky. And one messed up railway line Why are the cars so fast? You’d think that on such poor track They would have easily come off the rails by now These hopper cars are whack They have a weird shared-track design That makes no sense to me and just it looks dumb Nobody would build tracks like this The line’s too steep and bend’s too sharp No way a car would keep that much momentum Moving on its side That crash would flip that van And throw off at least hopper car The metal frame wouldn’t break when hit So the van would slide Or you know Also derail the carriages that collide with it. Somehow the throttle applies the brake That reverser is wrong for god’s sake Every wrong detail I swear will take *A year* off my lifespan Shooting a coupler won’t break it A car goes missing for a bit This movie is the biggest plot of shit I’ve ever seen At least it sends Jupiter out in a blaze of glory Even though It’s boring and dumb story Finally the train wreck happens How has this part not collapsed? From the engine’s weight The wood it should have snapped *I…* Guess they really did use galvanized square steel In the end In the movie “The Lone Ranger” All the trains only ever seem to get stranger How did Disney and Verbinski make a meal out of this show? Verbinski’s the same guy who helped direct Rango God this movie annoys me And I hope I never have to watch it ever again 🎶[ENDS IN MUSICAL TONE]🎵
As much as I love this movie, it honestly drove me nuts how inaccurate the trains are. ESPECIALLY the Jupiter. The Jupiter and the General are 2 of my favorite 4-4-0’s and the fact that not only did they screw up the Jupiter royally, but they screwed over the train too by hurling it off a bridge, which I find to be rather disrespectful to the Jupiter.
I still wonder whatever happened to the 'Constitution' locomotive after the Fillmore & Western Railway shut down. I know the 'Jupiter' went to the Volo Museum, but I have no idea where the 'Constitution' is now.
12:10 I think that hook over the track is supposed to be a log loading crane. In the middle of a desert with no logs. 13:25 Also note that the cowcatcher knows that it should alternate which direction it throws the ties. Director: "Let's use real train props instead of CGI, and then we'll color-grade the footage so much that it looks like CGI anyway!"
This movie is a cartoon they accidently made live action due to miscommunication. The level of effort in some places and complete lack in others is wild. 😆
If this becomes a series, I should take notes and then make my own movie with my own (narrow/scale) trains that I make to accurately promote them. Something like that.
I just watched this and honestly, it's brilliant. The way they pick apart every absurd detail with precision-it's like watching a masterclass in how not to handle trains on film. You'd think with such a massive budget, someone might have Googled "how do trains actually work?" But no, this is Hollywood we're talking about. Why bother with facts when you can slap together some eye candy for lonely housewives to drool over, right? It’s almost impressive how little they cared about getting anything remotely accurate, like they thought, “Eh, no one who watches this will care about trains.” Because, of course, why would they? It's just another moronic, soulless blockbuster with no purpose beyond mind-numbing escapism for people desperate for anything remotely entertaining.
Honestly, I have so much to say about this film and bits I cut from the script that I might do a directors commentary
Do a realism check of Titfield Thunderbolt
engines back then where stopped by shutting off steam and the valves set in mid gear and the tender brake applied
I’d love to see you do one on The Train (1964)
Yes please!
Are we not going to talke about the ho model train that showed up in this movie
Shoutout to ToT for putting up with my ADHD brain and me not realizing when things were happening and making editing the least fun. Great video, mate! I've had similar ideas for other films for years...
I feel another collaboration might be on the horizon
Exciting
I've been curious to see someone do something regarding Walt Disney's version of the Great Locomotive Chase, Particularly due to the fact it preserved the Tallulah Falls Railroad to an extent. (A route i came to know well after it'd gone) @@TrainFactGuy
Oh yes please 🙏 I love both of your channels so much! I literally lol’d when I saw Hyce’s cameo! 3 cheers to the 2 of you!
@@TrainFactGuy indeed
One of my favorite silly details about this movie is that, when he's riding the horse along the top of the train, he manages to ride at full gallop for several minutes and only seems to move about halfway down the length of the train.
Brb, need to jump a horse onto a train in rdr2 now.
I guess in The Lone Ranger world, Hunter Harrison existed 150 years earlier.
When I saw the title of this, I thought this was an actual 'Everything Wrong With' type video. I will admit a number of the trains scenes in this film are over the top and may have resulted in the movie going over budget, but the amount passion and dedication that was put into them really does show.
I agree.
True.
I will agree passion is there but to a train enthusiasts eye, it is half hearted. Because we know so much about these machines, that we notice where they went too far to just make action scenes for action sake. Don't get me started on locomotives with cow catchers never being given a coupling.
@@Plokman040 noted.
@@Plokman040 but outside of maybe "The Train" movie, how many train movies are out there that are 100% accurate, with no artistic license to add some excitement to the movie?
Same thing in aviation and military movies; it is fun to make a list of all the inaccuracies.
I didn’t realize I needed a Hyce and Train of Thought crossover, but now that we have it, I hope y’all make more videos together
Agreed
Yeah
They need to do a cursed trains stream together.
Agreed until the end of the universe.
Facts! 💯
OK, I read about a filmmaker wanting a field scene to be realistic, so he bought a farm, sowed, left it to grow, shot the scene, harvested, sold the crops and the farm and turned profit, even before the film released, but here they're buliding entire flipping railroad just for a few scenes! Man film making is crazy :D
Christopher Nolan when he shot Interstellar
@@TrainFactGuy "Christopher Nolan when he shot Interstellar"
Yes; that is the one. Cooper's farmhouse was located here: 50° 24.383'N 114° 12.201'W You can see the disturbed dirt if you activate historical imagery and go back to about 2016.
The climax of this film is for my money the best train chase in cinema history. It’s dynamic, fast paced, as epic music, and culminates in a lot of dynamic train shots. I’m aware that the Jupiter replica isn’t fully accurate and rail laws are ignored, but the whole scene is a lot of fun. I’ll never truly understand why people have so much hatred for the 2013 Lone Ranger.
Because everyone keeps making odd life choices in the film, ie. travelling through the canyon, saving the main character then proceeding to keep info from him (Tonto maybe *is* a little mad) and also THE KID SCENES because apparently Tonto is in a museum exhibit telling some 6yo kid about this set of events about 40 years after they happened
It’s because of EVERYTHING ELSE in the movie people have problems with, the story doesn’t make a lotta sense, and it’s WAAAAAAYYYY TOOOOO LONG for it’s own good, just like the later Pirates of The Caribbean movies.
I've never seen it and I detest it.
I have native friends, so... need I explain why I and they aren't fond of it?
I love the train chase, its one of my favourite scenes in film history. I actually really enjoy this movie quite a lot, I understand why people don't enjoy it but I like it for what it is. To me it pulls off the pirates of the caribbean vibe pretty well. Though they may not be accurate, its one of my favourite movies with a train in it. Even better that its part of the story
Honestly I was not expecting a Hyce and TOT Crossover, that was very cool
Honestly, I don't even think anyone was thinking such thing could happen
This movie is basically proof that you can't measure the quality of a project by the size of its budget. I have a soft spot for it in places, but it would have been so much better had it maintained the same pace, tone and energy that the train chase climax had. The historical and technical accuracy irks me to no end, but finding accuracy in a Disney project is like trying to find a vegan who likes beef.
"is like trying to find a vegan who likes beef."
That would be like my mother. Vegan for virtue signal; but sneak out to Mickey D's for a burger.
Chris!
That Hyce bit is priceless.
Agreed
Sidenote:
Wow. Thanks for the highlight and like.
please do more of this, im very interested in breaking down train portrayals in movies
I 2nd this.
3rd
Unstoppable comes to mind. Some of those scenes are absolutely bonkers, but some seem kinda plausible.
@@voltsiano116 Especially at the end when the train goes tilting off its wheels around that really slow curve.
@@ADBLOCKER4TH-cam
Yeah. I wonder whether a single diesel pulling in the opposite direction could - given just the right circumstances - stabilize the cars like that
@@voltsiano116 I'm just going by memory of the film, and when I saw that scene I thought “No way.”
Okay. I need to add more.
First, the train would not be moving that quickly with that many buffalo around it. (and that's an incredibly small herd of buffalo for 1869) In reality, there would be AT LEAST ten times as many buffalo-contemporary reports talk about them filling the horizon in every direction, and taking more than a day to pass. When encountering a herd of buffalo, standard procedure was to come to a stop-colliding with a single buffalo would cause a total wreck. Charging into a buffalo herd like that would be suicidal-literally.
And buffalo wouldn't be living in terrain like that without any grass to eat.
Then, there's the fact that the train is digging into the ground and flipping over. As Hyce noted in one of his videos, commenting on a US Army rail sabotage documentary, trains can deal with a surprising amount of non-trackage. Not to mention the whole Canadian National temporary generator story. I think somebody made a video about that: th-cam.com/video/FWYbD2ga8DM/w-d-xo.html
Regarding stealth track construction-there is actually precedence for it. Somewhat.
There was the construction of a terminal facility at Promontory Summit-the railroad that built a siding there first could claim terminal rights, so one company sent a team out in darkness, and they managed to build a siding AND A WYE before dawn.
Then there are the many examples of companies building tracks across other lines' rights of way in various "Frog Wars". Or building across the land of objecting property owners. Really, you have to appreciate just how empty and unpopulated large parts of the US are, even today. There are reports of lines being built in secret and presented as a fait accompli. Admittedly, I can't think of any that were built and then HIDDEN, but I suppose it could happen.
Interesting fact-the first electric toy train was invented by Joshua Lionel Cowen (he changed his name from Cohen) in 1900. He sold it to a store to run in circles in a display window advertising a product. It got plenty of offers-but for the train instead of the product it was supposed to be advertising!
The completion of the transcontinental railroad was (rightly) celebrated across the entire US. It's not inconceivable that the banner is commemorating this, or that the banner was left over from those celebrations (it does look rather oddly worn).
The presence of the Jupiter is actually not entirely inaccurate. The Southern Pacific was created by the owners of the Central Pacific, and the two were inextricably linked from Day 1. After an IMMENSE amount of (sometimes rather questionable) corporate shenanigans (enough to fill several books and a couple feature films), the SP ended up being the owning body and the Central Pacific was folded into it. The corporate entity of the Central Pacific came to an end in the 1920s, but it was nothing more than a few pieces of paper decades before that. As a result of this corporate entanglement, the Jupiter could very easily have been dispatched to Texas. As it was, it ended its days in Arizona in the early 20th Century, honored by its crew (who knew its history), but not by anybody else. So the Jupiter being in Texas could have been feasible.
The BIG issue is that there would have been no reason for any "stealth" to begin with. Historically, when valuable resources were discovered on land belonging to one of the Native peoples, the US simply dispatched the army to remove them, with the full cooperation of the railroads-when they didn't request the removal themselves to begin with. Even if the land had been set aside for those people in a treaty with the US Government, said treaties were basically worthless scraps of paper only acknowledged when it was convenient. The railroad owners would simply buy up the land or use other bureaucratic means to ensure that they got as much of a cut as possible. There would be no need to resort to working with nutjobs for something like this.
Bison. Michael
I’ve ridden through small reindeer herds on a train. Even then it’s at a snails pace. Going anything over turtle speed when dealing with buffalo just feels insane on a primal level
The ladder to the passenger car roof is actually something that I can account for.
Some passenger cars carried water (for washing and drinking). While some cars used an on-board container, others (especially more deluxe cars) used a built-in tank for more capacity. In an attempt to get at least a modicum of pressure, water was poured into this tank from a hatch on the roof. A hose would be snaked up to this hatch for filling. I have seen contemporary images (admittedly, drawings) of this, and I do somewhat recall seeing a ladder on the car.
So, the passenger car roof ladder is acceptable.
That said, the under-frames of all of the passengers is much too substantial. Though that can probably be waved for safety/stability reasons.
Waived
As someone who thoroughly studies 19th century steam locomotives for my modeling projects, you were being EXTRAORDINARILY generous with your critique of their details. Both of these engines are clearly based off the vogue of the 1910-1920s. They feature stylings, proportions, technologies, and even tender trucks that were either unfounded or impossible for the 1860's. It's important to remember the engines of the actual vintage were dainty because builders were still optimizing firebox placement, which was typically set within the frames beneath the drivers. Tiny fireboxes can only efficiently heat thin boilers, and thus the locomotives were built to much thinner standards--prioritizing agility over size. Even that simple fact is only scratching the surface of why these locomotives are completely inappropriate for the context, but I'm sure no one wants to read a comment section essay. Also of note is that in the opening scene, the locomotive is equipped with a westinghouse air pump, therefor it also presumably has premature air brakes.
In fairness regarding the air brakes, that's probably a concession so that the trains would actually be safe to operate during filming, especially during scenes where they had the diesel shoving on the rear. It stands out mostly because it actually gets used in the film as opposed to being "in the background" so to speak.
@@BandanRRChannel The presence of airbrakes are definitely understandable, but I still think they could've omitted the westinghouse pumps given the fact they're fake on the steam engines anyway.
It comes down to this: they didn't care. They were looking for "cool."
As someone who is also majorly into trains and also does a lot of studying (even though I freelance things a lot), I feel compelled to respond. I agree with some things you said, but take issue with others.
Biggest problem: "Both of these engines are clearly based off the vogue of the 1910-1920s". Sorry, but no. Maybe if you were talking solely about the Constitution you'd be more on the mark, because it has some notable overly-modern construction (the cab and the boiler both stand out) despite the 1860s-inspired trappings.
But unfortunately, you spectacularly derailed your point by using the word "both" and dragging the Jupiter into it. The *Jupiter* is absolutely NOT in any way "based off the vogue of the 1910-1920s". Looking at screenshots and other photos (which I'm doing as I write this), the firebox shape (A big bulge substantially greater than the boiler diameter-wise, and located within the frames) and the proportions seem fairly close to the actual 1860s engine and its replica - the running boards seem set lower, with more of the firebox and boiler barrel visible above them, but you can definitely tell it's based on the 1860s engine. Complete with a wooden cab and the running boards using actual wooden boards. It does look like the _scale_ of everything above the wheels may be wrong, but if so that would more be a technical concession to facilitate filming.
Now, the stylings... Please point out what specifically is out of place there instead of just saying "stylings". Because at least on the whole, the stylings are very much 1860s. The ornate dome detailing, headlamp supports (with Jupiter's being an exacting match for the replica's), paintwork, etc. the big wide pilots, Jupiter's balloon stack, the gold plating on the boiler bands... those are decidedly more in keeping with the flamboyance of 1860s locomotives (as seen on the Jupiter and Leviathan replicas, and the preserved C.P. Huntington) than the utilitarianism of the 1910s-1920s. Nothing jumps out at me as overly modern except the Constitution's cab.
You are however right about the tender trucks, which look nothing like the tender trucks of the day. EDIT: However, I think mechanical considerations may have forced their hand there - remember that the tenders of the prop locos are actually compact dolled-up diesel engines that provide the actual motive power.
Technically, this is just *barely* in time for the trains to have air brakes. They would have been a brand-new thing introduced just that year - Westinghouse patented his initial train airbrake design in April 1869.
What other technologies with the locos stand out to you as premature, if any?
@@P0nyB3h0ldr They might not necessarily be fake, given that the prop locos were still self-propelled via the tenders.
BRO WAS COOKING 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️📣📣📣📣📣📣📣
Never fond of culinary puns, I'm more of a engineering/architectural type of guy
(Just a simple opinion trying to make it's way on the internet)
Well welcome to the internet. Try not to run into the wrong people.
I don't forget galvanize square steel
@@Ppppmaisad good
20:53 The best part BEGINSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
TOT's got a good voice, give him a record contract.
For sure!
Out of all of his videos I have seen to date, this is by far his best. Well done!
And the name of the song?
@@DeoxysPrime300 no clue. But I’ve heard it many times.
26 minute of train of thoughts...YES
Makes you wonder how much detail Walt Disney would have done to make the trains scene more realistic.
Honestly, he probably wouldve thrown that disney money at thr production and built real ones
Omg it's you!
Disney? Much money. No realism.
@@OddHunter5504 Maybe, he could've included original Disney trains, such as Casey Jr.
@KaiHenningsen Walt Disney had a passion for trains that lasted his entire life and even did business with the ATSF for several decades, I think in a situation like this he would have thrown as much money as possible to make it as accurate as possible
We need a whole series of this!
Meanwhile in a parallel universe there's an equivalent "Shipload of thought" channel ranting about the incorrectly rigged vessels in the Pirates franchise!
Great video as always, ToT
When it comes to movies, I usually prioritize the “Rule of Cool” over accuracy. But the boiler being on fire, that bugs me!
Just to pile on a little, the freight car that gets t-boned appears to have a metal underframe. In this era freight cars might have a wrought iron plated wood underframe or a wood underframe with wrought iron truss rods, but a frame of rolled wrought iron structural sections wasn't a thing yet. I would also note that Bessemer process steel wasn't available in the US until after 1875 due to a patent dispute.
Also, for future reference, the use of brass or copper tubes or copper fireboxes in the US was pretty much over circa 1850. Wrought iron fireboxes and tubes (frequently charcoal iron) were preferred, at least until steel plate and tubes became available. Any confusion on this point is understandable, given that British practice used copper to the end of steam.
Ah. I'd picked up on that too, in fact the sectioned locomotive used in the illustration (Ellerman Lines) undoubtedly has steel tubes.
The biggest problem with the film was that they tried to create a Western film in the same spirit as Pirates of the Caribbean. The original story of The Lone Ranger was a gritty revenge plot that blended iconic elements of Robin Hood and Batman into a classic Western. The TV show that followed had a much more standard "Good guy wins, bad guys lose" plot element, but still kept a more serious tone.
When Disney turned the story into a carnival sideshow, a lot of people were disappointed. There was a lot of hype surrounding the film, but the overall reception was really low.
As a teen I was utterly derisive of the Lone Ranger TV show, for reasons I can't remember. (Terminal corniness? And wasn't the Lone Ranger prone to pointing out the moral of the story at the end? Could be wrong). This ludicrous mess of a movie tramples the Lone Ranger meme into the mud and dumps all over it like a rogue elephant with a stomach complaint.
Entire genre of movies notable only for absolute steamingcrap train scenes made to be mediocre spin-off amusement park rides 🚂 🎢
Looks execrable. Computer graphics instead of good writing and acting.
7:50 YOOO ITS HYCE THE ABSOLUTE GOAT LETS GO
He’s not the GOAT. I’m sure he’s done some good things, but I wouldn’t consider him the GOAT.
@@Train_Tok_Manwho would you consider the 'goat' then
@@ErieRRfan Easy answer(s): Steve Lee, Ed Dickens, Doyle McCormick, The Claytor Brothers, etc.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t know who any of those fellas are because a majority of Hyce’s fan base are just Foamers.
@@ErieRRfan Very easy Answer(s): Steve Lee, Ed Dickens, Doyle McCormack, The Claytor Brothers, etc.
Hyce is still very young and it’s silly Foamers are already considering him the GOAT even though he hasn’t done much other than making a TH-cam Channel.
The dual reverse levers might actually be legit: Before Stevenson's valve gear was widely used in the US, (1850's) there was another type broadly called gab valve gear, and some variations required two reverse levers. So if this was a particularly old engine, it's potentially accurate. But then they never seem to use the controls correctly anyway so...
That Mosley reference was crazy
Look at the movie unstoppable. While certainly a dramatisation, it’s surprising how much of what happens in the movie has some basis in the real event.
Agreed, and the lash-up scene was going to be a thing in the real event, but wasn't needed as 8888 stopped miles before the 3rd locomotive could be used
At. 16:35 I can absolutely believe that steam is cool enough and at a low enough pressure to be safe to walk through. The relationship between temperature and pressure are very close and the fact you can see the white stuff shows that it is mainly water vapour condensing as it rapidly expands and cools outside of the pressure vessel. I still wouldn't stand directly next to an open cylinder cock but after being sprayed by many locomotive's cylinder cocks and blow down valves I'm fairly confident that those chaps would be fine.
Not gonna lie, I thought I wasn't gonna like the song bit you did, but God damn you proved me wrong. Well done!
you would have an aneurism watching Super 8's train crash. it hits a truck at ~50 mph and suddenly every single car on that train has its gravity turned off
Most railfans would probably have a cardiac arrest watching that scene
I'm not even autistic but at 18:30 the historian in me wants to just say that the owners of the Central Pacific RR -- as stated, one-half of the OG transcontinental railroad -- purchased the Southern Pacific Railroad in *1868* -- the SPRR subsequently grew exponentially by building and linking and aquiring every robber-baron railroad they could get their hands on -- especially in Arizona, Texas, and México and fwiw, in a massive self-dealing buyout, the SPRR and CPRR were combined into the famous -Octopus- *Southern Pacific Company* in *1885* ...so, same railroad company, actually.
There was no standardization of design when it came to locomotives and rolling stock until the end of the 19th century. Before the creation of the big three steam locomotive manufacturers (Alco, Baldwin, Lima) there were hundreds of locomotive manufacturers not to mention many railroads began building their locomotives in house. Before Budd and Pullman dominated the passenger car market, many wagon/stagecoach manufacturers built rail cars. Many of these designs were one offs and can vastly different when it came to controls, couplings and brakes. But when railroads started merging and the need to reduce downtime became more paramount, the manufacturers started to simplify their offerings and the railroads retrofitted their equipment with more standardized controls.
For the life of me I can't work out if the film is set pre Westinghouse or post Westinghouse, but in either case Tonto was moving the Westinghouse brake lever into the Full Release position to stop the train and not the Emergency position. The effect of this is the complete opposite of what Tonto was trying to achieve. Also the wagon Tonto and his buddy were leaning against as the derailed locomotive slid on its side (with driving wheels still rotating) toward them, clearly had Westinghouse brake pistons fitted. The standard practice for railways world wide when operating mixed braked and unbraked vehicles was to attach all the braked stock to the locomotive and the unbraked stock at the rear of the braked portion. Some brakes are better than none...
Excellent video btw. Well worth checking out all of Train of Thought's other videos. Hyce's too. Most enjoyable.
The fact you went to hyce for info makes me love this even more!
as much as foamers demand real locomotives, this is a case where they were right in not getting their way. the props were faithful to the originals but altered for their necessity, only hardcore foamers and snobs would have an issue with their deviation from authenticity
20:43 You are one of the GREATEST SINGERS EVER!!! I hope there's more songs that you can do
I have a photo standing only a couple feet from the left cylinder on n&w 611. the steam coming from it honestly felt nice tbh. but it also wasnt a jet escaping from the packing gland tho.
SPEAKING OF, why the hell is there even so much steam escaping if the loco is stopped, and the throttle presumably closed
I mean a hopper in the Hinton train derailment was a head on accident, and one of the hoppers
on the CN freight train flew into the air and landed on another hopper, but that boxcar was still too crazy.
Gosh I was surprised at how much effort you put into the song, I'm impressed lol
Maybe that boiler has water tubes instead of fire tubes. Joking.
I have been waiting for a video series like this for literal decades. A few TH-camrs have tried, most notably Gareth Dennis with his look at the first Mission Impossible, but none have made it more than a single episode or so without being nuked by the Copyright Claim Algorithm. You are certainly a brave soul for taking on this challenge and I salute you for it. Doubly so as this is frankly a big issue that deserves to have attention drawn to it. While it may be cheaper and easier for film studios to just use prop or even CGI trains instead of filming around the real thing, it also makes it so much easier for them to get things, as TV Tropes puts it, "Just Train Wrong". And while most may be able to brush it off as not really mattering, it does matter as it takes you out of the film; even if you don't know anything about trains, you still have a basic grasp of physics and realism, so every time a train does something it shouldn't or looks weird it strains our suspension of disbelief, taking you out of the movie. Not to say that prop trains can't be a worthwhile alternative, but you need to have folks in charge who know about trains, not just hire a bunch of gandy dancers just to get credit you didn't earn. Hence why you can waste millions building a 5 mile railroad only to get lampooned for every detail versus trucking in an actual steam engine and coaches from Nevada to Oklahoma for a few background shots that really do deepen the immersion of your film (referencing Martin Scorsese's Killers of the Flower Moon). And you shouldn't do half measures either, like Kenneth Branagh referencing a real SNCF Class 241P but then building a prop version with the smoke deflectors on upside down, a bizarre Deleware & Hudson smokebox headlight, and a stupid cartoon snowplow, resulting in it looking less like the Orient Express and more like an Indian restaurant.
Tl;dr: Bravo to you, ToT. Long may this series continue. Gods knows there's plenty more bad movie trains to go through yet. Also, Hi Hyce!
P.S. Regarding the wonky proportions of the train in the opening (I swear the freight cars in particular look too tall to me, one weird detail that even I didn't know until recently was that early railroads in Texas were actually built to 5ft 6in Canadian Gauge. In fact, the idea of adopting 4ft 8 1/2in Stephenson Gauge as the universal standard wouldn't really be a thing in the US until the 1880's. But in the film, the opening train is still on 4ft 8 1/2in Standard Gauge track, and I doubt the crew did enough research to inflate the dimensions to visually compensate. So it's just questionable prop design, not helped by literally all of the cars being built on the same flatcar chassis. Also, there was, and technically still is, a weird quirk of Texas law that states that any railroad company wishing to operate in Texas must be based in Texas, meaning that outside companies like the Southern Pacific would have to partner with, buy out, or form new shell companies to satisfy this law. In SP's case, they bought out the Texas & New Orleans Railroad and continued to use its charter for their Texas operations. Interestingly, this law is still in effect to this day, with a modern prospective high speed rail company buying the charter for the long-defunct Texas Central Railroad.
The engineer's outfit in the opening scene also appears to be period inaccurate. It's hard to tell with how dirtied up he is, but it just seems to be the stereotypical engineer outfit that wouldn't appear until the early 20th century into the 1920s.
So, giving the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt for no particular reason: that crane\derrick could just be there for unloading freight cars, though it probably ought to be somewhere where that would make more sense (like having a loading platform next to it, or on a sidetrack of something. If it didn't rotate, I'd be tempted to call it an early signal or rather a bad attempt at one.
Well, at least Constitution will always be remembered as a very useful little ten wheeler for the Lego Railways surrounding Gold City and Legoredo.
Although, admittedly, the Lego version lacks any sort of number or internal cab controls. Seriously, all she’s got is a big black 4 stud diameter radar dish in the cab. This means that for my own personal copy I had to custom design and build and integrate a rudimentary set of controls and firebox. Plus she had no rods, so those had to be acquired, thankfully the Sapphire Star had the perfect new drive rods, so all I had to do was order an extra pair. On top of all that she had no whistle and her piston design made her too wide for the track she was intended to go on.
But hey, she’s a good little ten wheeler, just only in Lego form.
Oh, and to you who has said that a 4-4-0 can’t catch a 4-6-0, I present to you, NWR No. 2 Edward, who has faithfully shown he can catch a 2-6-0, known locally as James.
Boom.
Rockatoa, Brickticks out!
I mean… an American American type… (4-4-0) built for general purpose work wouldn’t… but a British built 4-4-0 built for express duties? Probably would.
Next you should review trainspotting, drug use, drug dealing, and stealing are of course pretty normal pass times for a train enthusiast but all I saw was a single Class 158 throughout the entire movie, a very misleading title indeed.
"Dear editor: As an avid fan of both citrus fruit and spring driven mechanisms, I was very disappointed by the film 'A Clockwork Orange'!"
Please upload the ending song by itself
He just did
@@harrisonofcolorado8886 add it to your next meme compilation
No matter how accurate modern westerns try to be, they’ll have nothing on the classics that were produced while steam was still in service.
None of them is as good as Buster Keaton.
14:51 Also, if one of the piston connecting rods is lost, the wheels shouldn’t keep turning. They appear to not be slowing down a lot. Considering how the other set of wheels is in the ground, without the other connecting rod, the wheels shouldn’t turn at all (Unless it's one of those divided-drive locomotives)
It's very obvious from the get-go that "The Lone Ranger" was not aiming for accuracy at all. Yes, the movie did very poorly; it bombed at the box office, it wasn't very well received by critics (they criticized its 2.5-hour run-time, nonsensical and incomprehensible action scenes, cringy dialogue, and various other issues), and it won the razzie for worst prequel, remake, rip-off or sequel. However, you can clearly tell that they put a lot of effort into constructing the locomotives, cars, track, and other props for the movie, and it's very visually stunning. In fact, "The Lone Ranger" was nominated for two Oscars (Best Visual Effects, and Best Makeup and Hairstyling).
between the collaboration of 2 of my favorite TH-cam channels, lyrics of the song describing what was wrong in the movie, and little details I've never noticed making me rage, this is by far the best movie review I've ever seen in my life man!
Masterful lyric writing.
my favorite part of this is the song at the end it explains why i hate the inaccurate trains in this movie
23:29 I mean, if were pointing out weird stuff. Rango's gun has a swing out cylinder instead of a loading gate and fixed cylinder.
9:30 the ladder is obviously there to get to the brake wheel that is also on the roof.
for reasons.
Yes, I know there is also a wheel right there on the balcony, and any wheel will do, so there still isn't really a point in having the ladder there, shut up
The wheel is obviously to steer the train, you must feel so foolish right now
@@BrandEver117but of course! What else would it be for?
@@ErieRRfanother than using train brakes? I have no bloody clue. 💀
Why the hell would trains have steering wheels bruh. The bogies and wheels do that work.
Edit: it would be useless. Why put one in when you can make the path curve for it and give it special wheels?
@@Ehimherebecasuewhynot it's for off roading clearly
Hyde’s reaction to the couplers is priceless. This is An amazing video and I hope hyce gets featured in these more lol
Without a doubt, the best TH-cam rant I've ever watched, and worth every invested second of watching time. Special highlight: the totally out-of-tune but ludicrously funny song that had me circular-breathing my cup of tea through my nose and mouth at the same time.
BRAVO!!! (the crowd roars!) 🤓👍
Never saw the movie, and people keep telling me how cool "Unstoppable" was... Hyce and bucket about those couplers... I catch air lines on other "old train" movies and shows as such. Only in 1900 were airlines mandatory. I'm not 100% accurate, but neither is the movie. Well, that's Hollywood for ya.
The 2 reversers are to control the different sides of the wheelsets, which is how the locomotive's wheels are moving in that one scene
At least they're consistent.
I love the fact that they built a 1/1 scale tail chaser train set consisting of an oval of track, a passing loop and a siding !
I won’t bother to watch it, thanks to you I’ve seen all the interesting bits now 😂
I tend to avoid films with trains in them, I can’t cope with 1950’s BR standards in films set in the 30’s, or 9F’s in Deutsch Reichsbahn livery with large swastikas on the smoke deflectors…
Please make this into a series this is amazing! A polar express review would be awesome
The fact Tonto is a kook makes sense when you know his name is Spanish for "Stupid, dumb, or Dull" and really Depp just was born to play crazy characters. The calling Cavendish a Windego is actually realistic in Algonquin culture, as in their culture the evil spirit of a Wendigo is born from eating human flesh, not unlike some depictions of werewolves as it is often the blood of a human that causes it. Though this being Texas, yeah again Depp has to play quirky characters, I mean he played Ed Wood in Tim Burton's movie about said cinema B movie creator, who was quite nuts in his creations.
Not too unlike Burton, how many movies has he done with Depp and Carter? Too many, including the aforementioned Ed Wood movie.
Impressive that any movie would go to the effort of having actual tracks to use for a film, massive kudo's imo
Depicting almost parallel tracks for no good reason is a common thing in many model railways where the modeller simply wants to depict two different types of line but it always strikes me as silly when there is a railway track that needs a huge bridge to cross a chasm when there is another railway only a hundred metres away crossing the same landscape where the valley has shrunk to being a small stream.
You should do unstoppable next
Definitely.
The D&RGW narrow gauge actually did have some combines and RPO‘s that were fitted with ladders and roof walks on them, for use in mixed train service. So I’ll give the movie crew a pass on that one, although they probably did it not because it was accurate, but because it was an easy plot device
Hey ToT you said you were cooking, and you whipped up a delicious video. 😁👍👏
This video was unusually long for ToT but I watched it and was incredibly entertained, especially by the singing part. I've never enjoyed a ToT video so much. Great work ! I would never have noticed the problems mentioned but the entertainment comes from the ToT narration. This video obviously took a lot of research and planning to put together. Good show! Impressive! Love it!!
What a fun video!! You have such a snappy sense of humor, an incredible skill in editing and a sense of comedic timing that's on point.
And I haven't even gotten to the 03:00 mark yet!!
7:50 A wild Hyce appears! Two Johnson bars is for multi-track drifting it's a standard in Hollywood since the Polar Express.
Ok but hear me out. How boring would the train scenes be with real world physics and accurate engines?
You gotta point
They'd be a damn lot more convincing and satisying than this hyperactive sped-up garbage.
Fair, but also you can do some incredible stuff with locomotives. If you haven’t seen it, check out the General. It’s a buster Keaton film, and all of the action sequences are done with real locomotives from about this era, there are some truly spectacular stunts in that move. They drive them like sports cars, it’s great.
Lone Ranger was a radio drama; historical accuracy would have been historically inaccurate.
22:26 Jacob’s bogies didn’t exist until the 1930s
Lot of faults but if you ignore them, it's a pretty decent movie
Are we just gonna ignore the fact the brakeman set the handbrakes even though the cars have air brakes… which weren’t invented until 3 years before the time….
This is a bloody good video. I would've never thought you could break into song during a train video and have it work, but it was done really well.
If you plan on doing more of these, I'd recommend The Fugitive with Harrison Ford.
Now I legitimately want to see you, Hyce, Lawrie, and Antony Couls do a "four experts watch a godawful Western movie with trains" review/pisstake/MST3K.
Fun fact: to save money, the crew made the two engines they built modifiable so they could have different engines on screen without having to build more. The engine seen in the movie's beginning was later turned into The Constitution engine after the crash was filmed. I assume the Jupiter engine would have been modified into another engine, too, if there was a sequel made. But since the movie was a flop, any plans for a sequel were scrapped.
Also, the Constitution locomotive and the one seen in the beginning are modeled after an ICRR 371 class, one of the engines Casey Jones drove.
As for the couplers, yeah, the design would be a pain in the ass to deal with when shunting, as one end wouldn't be compatible, and you would have to turn the car around. (a lot) However, there is a knuckle coupler design that does have a feature to make it compatible with a link and pin system. It has a gap in the knuckle for the link to go in and holes in the top part for the pin to be slipped in.
Also, I thought I was the only one who noticed that flatcar disappear halfway through the chase; I was like, wait, where'd the flatbed go? Did it derail or something?
The stupidest thing about the “dual Johnson bar reversers” is that one is to change from forwards and backwards (the main Johnson bar) whereas the second one is *literally* the regulator/throttle.
And this stupid idea actually traces far back during the hand-drawn cartoons from the 1930s where cartoon trains had “dual Johnson bar reversers” but can differentiate from the reverser/cut-off and the throttle
Hyce is great. Again another of my to favorite tubers I didn't know knew each other existed
Really liked this one , as a train buff I can understand the frustration, I felt that recently with the latest mission impossible movie. Where they did build a replica locomotive and launched it off a cliff. However it was the way the baddy disabled the controls of the steam locomotive that really made me think that it couldn’t be done with a hammer.
I should also point out I really love the model trains in the behind the scenes sequence here. Especially the fact a diesel engine was used in the engines' tenders as well as a computer so automatic movement was involved. Really fuels up my imagination.
This feels like it could be the train equivalent of the Fast&Furious movies. Next year they come out with 2Lone 2Ranger and Hammer's character pulls up to the opening race in a Mikado, blowing down steam from custom nozzles mounted in front of the cab
This was great. Please do more movie inaccuracy videos, even if they don't all end in song lol
If this is going to be a new series, can we take a look at the trains in Unstoppable? It’s based on the Crazy 8 incident and is one of the few train movies I can think of being based on real life events.
One of the few 'trains' movies I've seen that didn't make me continually snort with disgust.
the song! you nailed it! amazing! ❤
Dude that singing bit was phenomenal! I was laughing so hard and can't stop smiling, even now at the end of the video. Great job!
This is why “Train of Thought” is a musical man in history.📈
🎵[LYRICS BEGINS]🎶
That’s the wrong lever to start the train
The boiler pressure’s naught again
Why do none of the cars have their brakes applied?
*That’s Dangerous!*
Not sure boilers are that bullet proof
Why are all those men up on that roof?
It could hold their weight but the horse’s hoof
Would *LIIIIKELY* go through it!
He grabbed the throttle wrong
You need to pull it back to go forwards
Switch stands only indicate direction
Hitting them won’t change the points
How is a 4-4-0 catching up?
A Ten-wheeler should be way ahead of them, Maybe they’d be faster.
if they fixed all the leaking joints
Also there’s this bit with the air brake
*But…*
We’ve already been over that…
Why’s there another track going up that ridge? They did an awful job when they built that bridge
How’d he fit a horse in the carriage? The *dooooor* isn’t wide enough! The cars going faster than the train
Look there’s those weird couplers again
Why’s a brake wheel there?
It’d be such a pain to reach when you want to stop
Why are passengers still aboard-
A train that was stopped in the town? You’d think they’d walk around and celebrate the railway opening
Somehow these hopper cars
Are moving faster than before
They really should have stopped
Climbing that steep grade
Speaking of grades, let’s look at this track:
For some reason the railway spilts into two separate lines but both travel along the same path
It wasn’t unheard of for two lines to be built
Parallel during the construction of the transcontinental
But to have both in a canyon like this is pretty damn mental
One track is like a rollercoaster
Going up, down and around
That seems a lot of wasted effort
Surely you’d choose the route
Much closer to the ground
The grades are just too steep for an engine to climb
It’s stupid.
It’s janky.
And one messed up railway line
Why are the cars so fast?
You’d think that on such poor track
They would have easily come off the rails by now
These hopper cars are whack
They have a weird shared-track design
That makes no sense to me and just it looks dumb
Nobody would build tracks like this
The line’s too steep and bend’s too sharp
No way a car would keep that much momentum
Moving on its side
That crash would flip that van
And throw off at least hopper car
The metal frame wouldn’t break when hit
So the van would slide
Or you know
Also derail the carriages that collide with it.
Somehow the throttle applies the brake
That reverser is wrong for god’s sake
Every wrong detail I swear will take
*A year* off my lifespan
Shooting a coupler won’t break it
A car goes missing for a bit
This movie is the biggest plot of shit I’ve ever seen
At least it sends
Jupiter out in a blaze of glory
Even though
It’s boring and dumb story
Finally the train wreck happens
How has this part not collapsed?
From the engine’s weight
The wood it should have snapped
*I…*
Guess they really did use galvanized square steel
In the end
In the movie “The Lone Ranger” All the trains only ever seem to get stranger
How did Disney and Verbinski make a meal out of this show?
Verbinski’s the same guy who helped direct Rango
God this movie annoys me
And I hope I never have to watch it ever again
🎶[ENDS IN MUSICAL TONE]🎵
As much as I love this movie, it honestly drove me nuts how inaccurate the trains are. ESPECIALLY the Jupiter. The Jupiter and the General are 2 of my favorite 4-4-0’s and the fact that not only did they screw up the Jupiter royally, but they screwed over the train too by hurling it off a bridge, which I find to be rather disrespectful to the Jupiter.
You don't honestly think they gave a 💩?
7 seconds in and I'm down some rabbit hole with the Sonic 2 movie having a flying CSX train. lol
Damn ToT, everything is top notch, especially that opening with Studiopolis, and the William Tell Overture.
I LOVE this new video format! Looking forward to more!
I still wonder whatever happened to the 'Constitution' locomotive after the Fillmore & Western Railway shut down. I know the 'Jupiter' went to the Volo Museum, but I have no idea where the 'Constitution' is now.
Bravo good sir! This video was a thousand times better than the movie it is based upon. Loved every minute of it!
12:10 I think that hook over the track is supposed to be a log loading crane. In the middle of a desert with no logs.
13:25 Also note that the cowcatcher knows that it should alternate which direction it throws the ties.
Director: "Let's use real train props instead of CGI, and then we'll color-grade the footage so much that it looks like CGI anyway!"
I was so happy to hear you say "in SONG!"
This movie is a cartoon they accidently made live action due to miscommunication.
The level of effort in some places and complete lack in others is wild. 😆
This has to be my favorite video of yours so far. Cheers to you 🍻
This is your best video ever!
If this becomes a series, I should take notes and then make my own movie with my own (narrow/scale) trains that I make to accurately promote them. Something like that.
I just watched this and honestly, it's brilliant. The way they pick apart every absurd detail with precision-it's like watching a masterclass in how not to handle trains on film. You'd think with such a massive budget, someone might have Googled "how do trains actually work?" But no, this is Hollywood we're talking about. Why bother with facts when you can slap together some eye candy for lonely housewives to drool over, right? It’s almost impressive how little they cared about getting anything remotely accurate, like they thought, “Eh, no one who watches this will care about trains.” Because, of course, why would they? It's just another moronic, soulless blockbuster with no purpose beyond mind-numbing escapism for people desperate for anything remotely entertaining.
That was absolutely hilarious. I would love to see more videos like this, was giggling to myself throughout