East of Eden is my all time favorite book. Never has an author drawn me completely into a story while masterfully exploring morals & abstract ideas at the same time.
Going past a scene/sequence/...whatever, is actually far more effective than it might seem. I can't tell you how often looking back on a troubled and muddled scene was the cue to seeing what needed to be done. Thanks for your work
East of Eden, by far and away one of the greatest, ever. Less politically conscious than ‘Grapes’, something it was criticized for, it tackled personal relationships vs personal motivation in the social dynamic intimately, arguably the root of all strife. A retelling of the Cane and Abel story through a modern model, much of his personal life, was put on display, as was often the source of controversy within his own relations.
I give much the same advice to my math students. They're so afraid of getting it wrong that they're afraid to write anything at all. Most of the TOUGH stuff you can NOT get right until you've gotten it wrong, look at it, and tear it to pieces with your wit-fangs. Writing is not carpentry. It's not "measure twice and cut once." It's "measure not at all and then hack it to pieces." This is called "revision." It's amazing how much you can write if you just WRITE without stopping. I give my students the following mantra: "Write much. Think little."
Yes, got into John and gobbled up most of his books in one year. There are still a few I haven't read which I think of as something to look forward too.
I remember rule #1 from my teens. It stayed with me. I think your advice at the beginning - read Steinbeck - is as good advice as any of Steinbeck's. In fact, just read; everyday, uninterrupted, and without distraction. Without this, all other rules will have little value.
Steinbeck's first three novels didn't sell and the publisher was losing heart but his forth novel got noticed and the rest is history. The Pearl is my favorite of his work.
I like the tip to read dialogue aloud, although I think sometimes, you can't have dialogue that is too authentic, sometimes if dialogue is directly transcribed I find it can be highly disjointed with a lot of weird pauses and odd repetitions that our mind parse out, This authenticity comes across as really annoying to read, I think part of the art of writing is to somewhat enhance what is natural to be an emblematic representation of reality, otherwise it's not an art, it's just documentation.
Sorry. That's a favorite of mine too. Also recommended,, "Burning Bright" an experimental novella and "The Log from the Sea of Cortez" (the later revised editions) which is nonfiction.
My Steinbeckera connection. For quite a few years, John Steinbeck and Doc Ricketts enjoyed a few beers together at Doc’s Office and Lab on Cannery Row… �In 1923 Doc Ricketts set up his lab on Cannery Row. Almost every day that he was at his lab, he walked over to the Chinaman’s grocery store across the street and would purchase a few quarts of beer. Also in 1923, John Steinbeck signed up for a biology course at Hopkins Marine Station in Pacific Grove. Meeting Doc Ricketts, as well as their mutual interest in marine biology, helped spark a deep friendship between the two. They hit it off immediately and became close friends. Steinbeck published his novel CANNERY ROW in 1945. The later part of the decade, Steinbeck and his wife moved to Los Gatos California but frequently visited Monterey and were hanging out with New York’s Elite mostly. When John Steinbeck and Doc got together they had a few quarts of beer. The men both liked their beer for 25 years on the row until Doc’s death in 1948. I can estimate at least 40,000 + quart containers + all the refuse from the lab was thrown thru his trap door into the bay. So there’s an excellent chance that my Amber Sea glass Jewelry or that era glass being made from Doc Ricketts, John Steinbeck or Mack and the boys (the characters from Steinbeck’s novel CANNERY ROW) quarts of beer. That was most of the 20’s and 30’s that Steinbeck lived in Pacific Grove. I have Prohibition glass, Chromium glass, Cadmium glass, Erbium glass, and Uranium glass. The list goes on. montereyroseman.com
I like it because it is such a raw picture of human nature. Good people fighting against "the man." There is a startling picture of sacrifice for others in it too. Human drama at its finest. He wrote it three years before "The Grapes of Wrath," arguably his most popular novel, and you will see that "In Dubious Battle" has many of the same themes. Also, keep in mind that Steinbeck wrote "In Dubious Battle" just after "Tortilla Flat" and just before "Of Mice and Men." Many think, including me, that he was at his peak in this period. Yes, he wrote plenty of good books later, but there is a certain emotional power in this era that he could not duplicate.
This is an interesting question for many reasons. All writers share from a core group of methods, and I would not say that Kerouac borrowed in a particular way from Steinbeck. Yet, at the same time, it seems that if Steinbeck was writing a generation later, his work might have had Kerouac's edge. This is all subjective, of course. Comparing and contrasting the work of these two writers would make an interesting doctoral dissertation.
Isn't his tip on writing rapidly and not rewriting until finished, in opposition to Hemingway's daily writing routine, which could be writing as few as 320 words, but had to be impeccable to his eyes, and then start the next day with revising the already written parts?
Different writers have different methods. Today, perfecting every paragraph as you go is considered a poor way to write. It worked for Hemingway perhaps, but don't expect it to work for anyone else. My students get so-called "Writer's Block" and never finish their book because they are so busy fiddling with each tiny aspect. It is best to write your first draft as rapidly as possible. When it is complete, start the revision process and do your second and third drafts as needed before you are satisfied. Only then is your book is ready for third-party copy editing.
syed nawaz Kurt Vonnegut wrote one page, then rewrote it until he was happy before moving on. His first drafts were final drafts....there are no rules. You write what fits you and move on.
Even Vonnegut worked in different ways at different times. His first drafts were not always his final drafts. In a 1979 interview, Vonnegut said, "No, I’m a basher as I go page by page by page, and when I finish the last page the book is genuinely done, you know, there are not many drafts of the whole book its just page by page by page." Note he said, "not many drafts of the whole book." But there were some. There always is. The issue is perfectionism. Most writers need to guard against perfectionism because they are never able to complete a book when they are perfectionistic. But, you cannot perfect any part of a book until you have a complete first draft. "Drafts" are essential to the writing process. I am very fond of a quote by American football coach Vince Lombardi and I repeat it often. He said, "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
2 great writers who found their voice through their experiences. Hemingway was a reporter before he became a novelist. His sentences were short and to the point. This is why he was use to correcting as he went along. I own all the works from both men! I learned to shorten the sentence and get 38 pages written in one sitting without ever going back over it until it was done. They both have something to offer.
It's great that it is your favorite. His experimental novella Burning Bright is my favorite. But you know, plenty of people will disagree with both of us.
Wow. You're the only person who reads literature that I know thinks Steinbeck's best is "In Dubious Battle?, most have never even heard of it. Although, the "Red Pony" from "The Long Valley" is probably the most perfect writing ever done. .
Perfection interests me less than a raw, real story. That's why "In Dubious Battle" will remain at the top with me. Most people would rank "The Grapes of Wrath," but to me it is far too sentimental. "In Dubious Battle" can get you angry, out of your chair, and involved in life. To me, that is the ultimate purpose of good writing. A novel can be more than entertainment and "In Dubious Battle" is that in my view.
@@VelocityWriting I failed to mention that "In Dubious Battle" is also my favorite Steinbeck novel. Not only because of it's dynamic forceful and brutal writing, but because of its compassion for the working class. But the beautiful ethereal writing is still "The Red Pony".
Wow! - powerful ideas about our so-called "audience." Those of us who have grown up around Hollywood and modern marketing know too well what a creativity killer this obsession can be...
He's kinda right. First write down the whole picture, than correct all the mistakes. Work on, without considering future or past of the piece, the reader should also forget time.
I agree with this: write it down, one single reader. By pass a scene, stuff that doesn't work, or belong there. Say it and write it. Just never make you're 2020 writing future-deniable. Make you're words and images of story, make some reader free... Aroha from New Zealand. N
I like writing. But there is no one to motivate me. I know that I have to rely on my self. But l am too busy. Sometimes brilliant ideas. I don't know how to start. How to rebuild my ideas. I have skills ideas but l don't know how to start
You start with an outline, Noura. Structure the story you have in your mind. Start with the main points and fill in the details. This is how you focus your attention and build your ideas. You are right, motivation comes from inside you. Never depend on external motivation. It will fail you. See: th-cam.com/video/fTvbR-Mh7dQ/w-d-xo.html
I bumped into this channel a couple days ago and have since watched a few of your videos. I enjoy hearing tips for writing, but even the most renowned writers suffer from the same thing, the reader has only that guy's worldview, and ideas, pumped into his head until he either finishes the book, or throws it into the trash. That's the biggest reason I don't read much fiction anymore. A fiction writer exploits the sympathy he can make you feel for his protagonist, and he gets you to agree with what he sees as right. Too much stinkin' thinkin' has been pawned off on readers that way. It can work the other way round too, though. A writer can make a case for high standards and get it across to his audience. The problem is, too many writers concoct stories with the intention to sell their version of high standards, but the only thing that's high is the writer himself.
Yeah, I hear you. Writers can change the world. But do we really want the world they envision? As I have mentioned elsewhere, I am wearing a t-shirt these days that says, "Let's Make Orwell Fiction Again" No joke.
Your advice may be confusing to some. It would be more helpful to say, "Think about why famous writers used these rules and how can you adapt them to enhance your writing." Different writers have different techniques and we can learn from all. th-cam.com/play/PLKetvzjGQ0asIIP403k2yIL4-Vho5pwVe.html Also, as an educator and as a person who has privately mentored many hundreds of writers over the last three decades, I'll have to take kindly exception to your statement that "There's no fixed way to write." Yes, there fixed ways, and aspiring writers are often in a muddle because they don't understand that basic fact. You can travel anywhere you want as long as you follow the fixed rules of the road. Same with writing. In my long experience, writers who believe they are "different" and can do as they please are naive. Storytelling is deeply embedded in the human psyche, so believing "There's no fixed way to write and everyone's different" can be fatal to gaining readers.
@@VelocityWriting I wasn't talking about grammar and punctuation. I was talking about rules like "Plan everything", "Write every day", stuff like that. Plan everything? Hell no, for me at least. Not a chance. Never been so bored when I tried that. I'm a pantser.
I wasn't talking about just grammar and punctuation either. :-) I know enough about writing, writers, and about how the human brain works to understand the best ideas do not come as your fingertips touch the keyboard. Books and articles require planning. See: th-cam.com/video/6BIbsLL6Dfo/w-d-xo.html Thus, I associate "Pantsers" with drama kings and queens. They are the ones who are always complaining about so-called "Writer's Block" and have other lame excuses for not completing their books or articles. Pantser = Poser in almost all cases. When people take a trip they check a map and mark the best route to their destination. Can they take side trips? Absolutely, especially when they have a map to get them back on track. The point is, with a map they don't have to guess which way to turn at every crossroads. The same applies to writing.
No, I can't. Most people would complain that I'm talking TOO fast. Impossible to win that one. But here's a tip for you that works with all YT videos. Click on the "GEAR" icon at the bottom of each video. One of the options there is SPEED. You can make any YT person speak up to twice as fast. By the way, for those who think I speak too fast, you can also slow me down in the same place. Hope that helps.
@@VelocityWriting It was all in jest. I've decided to take on that "pick one person as an audience" advice and it seems to be working really well. I'm maintaining a consistent narrative voice. Thanks for the really informative vid!
East of Eden is my all time favorite book. Never has an author drawn me completely into a story while masterfully exploring morals & abstract ideas at the same time.
Going past a scene/sequence/...whatever, is actually far more effective than it might seem. I can't tell you how often looking back on a troubled and muddled scene was the cue to seeing what needed to be done. Thanks for your work
East of Eden, by far and away one of the greatest, ever. Less politically conscious than ‘Grapes’, something it was criticized for, it tackled personal relationships vs personal motivation in the social dynamic intimately, arguably the root of all strife. A retelling of the Cane and Abel story through a modern model, much of his personal life, was put on display, as was often the source of controversy within his own relations.
I give much the same advice to my math students. They're so afraid of getting it wrong that they're afraid to write anything at all. Most of the TOUGH stuff you can NOT get right until you've gotten it wrong, look at it, and tear it to pieces with your wit-fangs.
Writing is not carpentry. It's not "measure twice and cut once." It's "measure not at all and then hack it to pieces." This is called "revision."
It's amazing how much you can write if you just WRITE without stopping. I give my students the following mantra: "Write much. Think little."
Grapes of Wrath. ..what a book..
Fantastic book. East of Eden is even better I think (IMO best book of all time)
I'm already doing to first few of these, which feels great. It's like he's telling me it's a good way to work from beyond the grave.
East of Eden is my favorite
Yes, got into John and gobbled up most of his books in one year. There are still a few I haven't read which I think of as something to look forward too.
I remember rule #1 from my teens. It stayed with me. I think your advice at the beginning - read Steinbeck - is as good advice as any of Steinbeck's. In fact, just read; everyday, uninterrupted, and without distraction. Without this, all other rules will have little value.
Thank you! Of mice and men is my most favourite book :)
Steinbeck's first three novels didn't sell and the publisher was losing heart but his forth novel got noticed and the rest is history. The Pearl is my favorite of his work.
The first of his books which i read at school... i was hooked!
That was a good story.
Incredible, thanks for taking the time to put this together.
I like the tip to read dialogue aloud, although I think sometimes, you can't have dialogue that is too authentic, sometimes if dialogue is directly transcribed I find it can be highly disjointed with a lot of weird pauses and odd repetitions that our mind parse out, This authenticity comes across as really annoying to read, I think part of the art of writing is to somewhat enhance what is natural to be an emblematic representation of reality, otherwise it's not an art, it's just documentation.
He must have written very small to fit that on an envelope, unless it was a very large envelope! Thanks for this helpful video. Bless you.
Every video teaches me a new dimension of writing .
Thank you
I listen to your video again and again.
So insightful! It’s always nice to learn how the Greats think. Thank you so much for this
Glad it was helpful!
No mention of East of Eden?
Sorry. That's a favorite of mine too. Also recommended,, "Burning Bright" an experimental novella and "The Log from the Sea of Cortez" (the later revised editions) which is nonfiction.
apope06
East of Eden is my favorite novel of all time
Or Of Mice and Men?
I got into reading Steinbeck and binge read him.
The Wayward Bus is on a par with In Dubious Battle and Grapes of Wrath.
I find East of Eden laboured.
My Steinbeckera connection. For quite a few years, John Steinbeck and Doc Ricketts enjoyed a few beers together at Doc’s Office and Lab on Cannery Row…
�In 1923 Doc Ricketts set up his lab on Cannery Row. Almost every day that he was at his lab, he walked over to the Chinaman’s grocery store across the street and would purchase a few quarts of beer. Also in 1923, John Steinbeck signed up for a biology course at Hopkins Marine Station in Pacific Grove. Meeting Doc Ricketts, as well as their mutual interest in marine biology, helped spark a deep friendship between the two. They hit it off immediately and became close friends. Steinbeck published his novel CANNERY ROW in 1945. The later part of the decade, Steinbeck and his wife moved to Los Gatos California but frequently visited Monterey and were hanging out with New York’s Elite mostly.
When John Steinbeck and Doc got together they had a few quarts of beer. The men both liked their beer for 25 years on the row until Doc’s death in 1948. I can estimate at least 40,000 + quart containers + all the refuse from the lab was thrown thru his trap door into the bay. So there’s an excellent chance that my Amber Sea glass Jewelry or that era glass being made from Doc Ricketts, John Steinbeck or Mack and the boys (the characters from Steinbeck’s novel CANNERY ROW) quarts of beer. That was most of the 20’s and 30’s that Steinbeck lived in Pacific Grove.
I have Prohibition glass, Chromium glass, Cadmium glass, Erbium glass, and Uranium glass. The list goes on. montereyroseman.com
Sounds cool.
'If you want to improve your writing, read Steinbeck.' Well said.
Wow that was really useful. Thank you!
That must have been a rather LARGE envelope! ;-)
Or very tiny handwriting!
May I ask WHY you think his best work is "In Dubious Battle?" I'm going to the library today to get it.
I like it because it is such a raw picture of human nature. Good people fighting against "the man." There is a startling picture of sacrifice for others in it too. Human drama at its finest.
He wrote it three years before "The Grapes of Wrath," arguably his most popular novel, and you will see that "In Dubious Battle" has many of the same themes.
Also, keep in mind that Steinbeck wrote "In Dubious Battle" just after "Tortilla Flat" and just before "Of Mice and Men." Many think, including me, that he was at his peak in this period.
Yes, he wrote plenty of good books later, but there is a certain emotional power in this era that he could not duplicate.
Number 3 sounds like a neat idea.
Really great tips. I just finished reading A Russian Journal. Great writing.
What a paradox. He is basically saying to not be inhibited by rules. Write fast and freely.
Thanks you so much!! Great content!
Thank you, sir!
He is on a 1/ 2 Gold Coin. American Art Series early 1980s. I remember a beautiful coin...
You think Kerouac borrowed from Steinbeck’s methods?
This is an interesting question for many reasons. All writers share from a core group of methods, and I would not say that Kerouac borrowed in a particular way from Steinbeck. Yet, at the same time, it seems that if Steinbeck was writing a generation later, his work might have had Kerouac's edge. This is all subjective, of course. Comparing and contrasting the work of these two writers would make an interesting doctoral dissertation.
Excellent. Thanks.
That was a big envelope he jotted those notes down on.
When Steinbeck did a night of heavy drinking, the next morning he'd suffer the 'wrath of grapes.'
Good one! Kinda. :-)
Thanks a lot!! 🌼🌸💖♥️🌺💗
Thank you very much!
Isn't his tip on writing rapidly and not rewriting until finished, in opposition to Hemingway's daily writing routine, which could be writing as few as 320 words, but had to be impeccable to his eyes, and then start the next day with revising the already written parts?
Different writers have different methods. Today, perfecting every paragraph as you go is considered a poor way to write. It worked for Hemingway perhaps, but don't expect it to work for anyone else. My students get so-called "Writer's Block" and never finish their book because they are so busy fiddling with each tiny aspect. It is best to write your first draft as rapidly as possible. When it is complete, start the revision process and do your second and third drafts as needed before you are satisfied. Only then is your book is ready for third-party copy editing.
syed nawaz Kurt Vonnegut wrote one page, then rewrote it until he was happy before moving on. His first drafts were final drafts....there are no rules. You write what fits you and move on.
Even Vonnegut worked in different ways at different times. His first drafts were not always his final drafts.
In a 1979 interview, Vonnegut said, "No, I’m a basher as I go page by page by page, and when I finish the last page the book is genuinely done, you know, there are not many drafts of the whole book its just page by page by page."
Note he said, "not many drafts of the whole book." But there were some. There always is.
The issue is perfectionism. Most writers need to guard against perfectionism because they are never able to complete a book when they are perfectionistic. But, you cannot perfect any part of a book until you have a complete first draft. "Drafts" are essential to the writing process.
I am very fond of a quote by American football coach Vince Lombardi and I repeat it often. He said, "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
2 great writers who found their voice through their experiences. Hemingway was a reporter before he became a novelist. His sentences were short and to the point. This is why he was use to correcting as he went along. I own all the works from both men! I learned to shorten the sentence and get 38 pages written in one sitting without ever going back over it until it was done. They both have something to offer.
Maupassant was right: get black on white and quick.
Surely Of Mice and Men was his best work
It's great that it is your favorite. His experimental novella Burning Bright is my favorite. But you know, plenty of people will disagree with both of us.
I dont understand the reason of the 5th rule
The Greatest Writer of all time
Write to that one person
Wow. You're the only person who reads literature that I know thinks Steinbeck's best is "In Dubious Battle?, most have never even heard of it. Although, the "Red Pony" from "The Long Valley" is probably the most perfect writing ever done.
.
Perfection interests me less than a raw, real story. That's why "In Dubious Battle" will remain at the top with me. Most people would rank "The Grapes of Wrath," but to me it is far too sentimental. "In Dubious Battle" can get you angry, out of your chair, and involved in life. To me, that is the ultimate purpose of good writing. A novel can be more than entertainment and "In Dubious Battle" is that in my view.
@@VelocityWriting I failed to mention that "In Dubious Battle" is also my favorite Steinbeck novel. Not only because of it's dynamic forceful and brutal writing, but because of its compassion for the working class. But the beautiful ethereal writing is still "The Red Pony".
Steinbeck masterworks :
1. Of Mice and Men
2. Grapes of Wrath
3. In Dubious Battle
4. The Moon is Down
And 5. Cannery Row
6. East of Eden
7. The Winter of our Discontent
Wow! - powerful ideas about our so-called "audience."
Those of us who have grown up around Hollywood and modern
marketing know too well what a creativity killer this obsession can be...
If you are familiar with airmail, that should curb your doubts about how much he wrote on the back of an envelope...
Thanks.. 🌌🌌
He's kinda right. First write down the whole picture, than correct all the mistakes.
Work on, without considering future or past of the piece, the reader should also forget time.
I agree with this: write it down, one single reader. By pass a scene, stuff that doesn't work, or belong there. Say it and write it. Just never make you're 2020 writing future-deniable. Make you're words and images of story, make some reader free... Aroha from New Zealand. N
Kia ora, 'mate.
I like writing. But there is no one to motivate me. I know that I have to rely on my self. But l am too busy. Sometimes brilliant ideas. I don't know how to start. How to rebuild my ideas. I have skills ideas but l don't know how to start
You start with an outline, Noura. Structure the story you have in your mind. Start with the main points and fill in the details. This is how you focus your attention and build your ideas.
You are right, motivation comes from inside you. Never depend on external motivation. It will fail you. See: th-cam.com/video/fTvbR-Mh7dQ/w-d-xo.html
I bumped into this channel a couple days ago and have since watched a few of your videos. I enjoy hearing tips for writing, but even the most renowned writers suffer from the same thing, the reader has only that guy's worldview, and ideas, pumped into his head until he either finishes the book, or throws it into the trash.
That's the biggest reason I don't read much fiction anymore. A fiction writer exploits the sympathy he can make you feel for his protagonist, and he gets you to agree with what he sees as right. Too much stinkin' thinkin' has been pawned off on readers that way.
It can work the other way round too, though. A writer can make a case for high standards and get it across to his audience. The problem is, too many writers concoct stories with the intention to sell their version of high standards, but the only thing that's high is the writer himself.
Yeah, I hear you. Writers can change the world. But do we really want the world they envision? As I have mentioned elsewhere, I am wearing a t-shirt these days that says, "Let's Make Orwell Fiction Again" No joke.
Rule #6. Ignore any advice that doesn't work for you. There's no fixed way to write and everyone's different.
Your advice may be confusing to some. It would be more helpful to say, "Think about why famous writers used these rules and how can you adapt them to enhance your writing." Different writers have different techniques and we can learn from all. th-cam.com/play/PLKetvzjGQ0asIIP403k2yIL4-Vho5pwVe.html
Also, as an educator and as a person who has privately mentored many hundreds of writers over the last three decades, I'll have to take kindly exception to your statement that "There's no fixed way to write." Yes, there fixed ways, and aspiring writers are often in a muddle because they don't understand that basic fact. You can travel anywhere you want as long as you follow the fixed rules of the road. Same with writing.
In my long experience, writers who believe they are "different" and can do as they please are naive. Storytelling is deeply embedded in the human psyche, so believing "There's no fixed way to write and everyone's different" can be fatal to gaining readers.
@@VelocityWriting I wasn't talking about grammar and punctuation.
I was talking about rules like "Plan everything", "Write every day", stuff like that.
Plan everything? Hell no, for me at least. Not a chance. Never been so bored when I tried that. I'm a pantser.
I wasn't talking about just grammar and punctuation either. :-) I know enough about writing, writers, and about how the human brain works to understand the best ideas do not come as your fingertips touch the keyboard. Books and articles require planning. See: th-cam.com/video/6BIbsLL6Dfo/w-d-xo.html
Thus, I associate "Pantsers" with drama kings and queens. They are the ones who are always complaining about so-called "Writer's Block" and have other lame excuses for not completing their books or articles. Pantser = Poser in almost all cases.
When people take a trip they check a map and mark the best route to their destination. Can they take side trips? Absolutely, especially when they have a map to get them back on track. The point is, with a map they don't have to guess which way to turn at every crossroads. The same applies to writing.
Helpful but not as helpful as Hemingway's rules (which video I also watched). Thank you.
can you talk a little faster
No, I can't. Most people would complain that I'm talking TOO fast. Impossible to win that one.
But here's a tip for you that works with all YT videos. Click on the "GEAR" icon at the bottom of each video. One of the options there is SPEED. You can make any YT person speak up to twice as fast.
By the way, for those who think I speak too fast, you can also slow me down in the same place. Hope that helps.
@@VelocityWriting It was all in jest. I've decided to take on that "pick one person as an audience" advice and it seems to be working really well. I'm maintaining a consistent narrative voice. Thanks for the really informative vid!