I appreciate these easily digestible videos. TH-cam didn’t exist when this game came out. I didn’t go to any forums or discussion boards as a kid, so the explanation of the minutiae is really helpful.
20 years ago games like Diablo 2, MtG, and D&D got me comfortable using numbers and stats to optimize things. This eventually gave me the confidence to go to school for software, and that's how I make my living today. ❤️
I definitely noticed the benefit of even a little bit of magic find. Starting out with a fresh stash in D2R, my sorceress wasn't finding much of anything throughout my first playthrough, and I didn't have any good gear at all. Just a Stealth and a Leaf was pretty much all that sustained me through Normal and the beginning of Nightmare. I got maybe two or three trash uniques throughout the entirety of Normal. And then nightmare Andy gave me a goldwrap. And then I farmed nightmare Countess for Shael and Amn runes to switch out my Leaf for a Spirit sword and a Rhyme shield so I could respec to cold. And then I gambled a good pair of gloves that had 25% mf on them. And I found a magic ring with +10% fcr and some magic find... And somewhere throughout act 3 a Tarnhelm dropped and I switched out my Lore for it. And when I reached the end of Nightmare I was sitting on around 150% mf. Going back to Andy and Meph for a few test farming runs, the difference was very notable. The number of uniques I got was way higher. Eventually as your mf builds and you become more capable at killing the content, you will have that moment where the 'dam bursts' and uniques are starting to flow.
I always thought how cool and interesting would it be if these examples were used as practical application to teach math. I know I would be extremely interested back in school.
That kid is already lost. I automatically applied all the maths I knew and was trying to do the maths for my DPS before I even heard any one discuss the proper formulas and break points. You either use it or you are too dim and hopeless. Many people playing with me were doing their own maths also. Kids who ask where will i need maths don't understand how to actually apply knowledge they have. There is a way way bigger issue at hand..
being new to the game i was so excited when i had a 2 socket grey shako drop. Thinking that it was worth something because everyone always wants a shako. but it's a shako not a shako.
Yea same thing happened to me only beat the old lod with pally on normal, played d2r like a man fury druid a shako dropped my jaw dropped and it was white hahaha I was like to people imbue these for shako…no no they dont hahaha though lesson
When I played this game for the first time in 2008, I made a game "O Ist N Shako". Someone came to the game and put a socketed Shako with an emerald in the trade window (the shako was green colored because of that) and I was so hyped that accepted the trade before even checking the Shako. Obviously noticed my mistake after the trade :))
Lol you can socket rune word lore into it and pretend it’s a real shacko if you want. 😂
3 ปีที่แล้ว +37
Came back in spring 2021 after viewing some of your class guides. Thank you so much MrLlamaSC for helping me get back to one of my favorite games 15 years later! Also, just found my very first Shako last night with my sorc, inside an armor rack (!!!), while heading to the countess!!!
If you play offline then this rack will always drop shaco. You just have to be sure there's no mosters around it cause it'll be theirs drop tables then.
Where did you look it up? It's even on the D2-Wikipedia and I heard alot of TH-camrs saying it's just about the quantity of mobs you kill, not about MF regarding runes
Runes are all about number of players and number of mobs, which is why Chaos and Cows are king for runes because the mob density and set map shape makes clear speed vs. mob ratio very high.
@@CR4V3Y I’m not totally sure, I usually cast the last blizz after I swap because sometimes I miss the swap if I don’t. Llama and others have said previously that swapping to more MF for the last hit works but never specified that.
So I've been playing a duel spec sorc. Frozen orb/chain lightning. Obviously static field to. It took me a while to figure out the best way to play. If you got a fast enough cast rate. You can throw frozen Orb (while frozen orb is on cool down) use static field to bring down half the enemies health (on hell difficulty) then spam chain lightning and go back to throwing up frozen orb. Then repeat on cool down. It is such a fun build and it shreds
One thing I learned recently is, combining key bindings and clicks helps reduce the frame count between casts. I tested this on my sorc, blizz/static field I can basically cast both at the same time without noticing any lag between. So I lead with blizz and spam static 2 or 3 times before my next blizz cast. This has worked amazingly in places like cow, chaos sanctuary, halls of pain, and just overall mfing. And even though I'm a glixx sorc. My firewall does 7.5k too. So I have a bit of everything and my Merc does 3-6 k per hit with botd eth giant thresher and fortitude.
Been a lurker for a while, just subscribed. Your vids are just to informational, in a good format and just in general you have a perfect way of teaching this stuff
Llama thank you for making these videos on the basic math behind the game. I've been watching you for a few years after your AGDQ run and every time I feel inclined to pick up the game you have some new videos I can learn some cool stuff from
MF vs Kill speed depends on the ratio of time spent between teleporting and killing. Runs that have a lot of movement will favor MF because the actual boss killing part is a smaller portion of the run. Runs that have the majority of time spent killing will favor clear speed over MF.
FCR is extremely important for MF runs on Battlenet due to the lack of knowing where to go. There are mathematical choices that are better than alternative choices to help, but generally, FCR > +Skills. Skills are more important for linear locations like Chaos Sanctuary; although, a little FCR helps too. From here you decide how much MF you can get without sacrificing that clear time.
@@AmyLovesYou He was talking about clear speed not FCR, FCR has Breakpoints which you cannot surpass once you have enough to hit your BP , Clear speed comes from the damage you have mainly so your comparison is just confusing for anyone that is not familiar with the game and the terms. Please clarify what you actually mean " by FCR > + Skills" ?
I always found my sweet spot to be around 200 mf on most toons and 300ish on a sorc with focus more on mindset of clear speed -> more runs -> more drops
Oh how I love how this age old debate is once again live and well. What an amazing ass game that blends that endorphin rush with also mixing in that ability to give agency to the player to give that chance to change the odds. This is what games now are missing. POE could’ve been perfect if they had a more in depth loot chase and also more direct agency of me changing that to a certain degree. I do believe TTK (Time To Kill) meaning pathing to and killing the mobs of interest has equal parity in importance to MF%.
This is probably the greatest game ever. After 20 years, it still keeps you up until irresponsible hours of the night. Its this reason why im so excited for Diablo 4...it would be suicide to release a D2 remaster, give people a taste of greatness, and then fall short with D4. They have no choice but to make it equally great.
I respectfully refer to D2 as a timeless classic and way ahead of its time, and it shaped all ARPGs to ever come after it. MF in its state, however, appears to give player agency in the very short run but strips it in the very long run. Examine how many builds can stack MF early on in the game with low powered gear while maintaining efficient clear. Get a look at the massive difference in value of Sorc Toches versus a druid one. MF skews the playstle and player choice towards certain builds for 70% of the playerbase, polarising further the awkward (and that's being gentle) class/skill balance that hasn't been touched whatsoever for D2R. Just think about how much the game would change if certain underplayed classes gained sprinkles of MF on their BiS or close to BiS items. There would actually be new builds being pushed to the fore and new content showing us things we don't already know before from thousands of hours of D2. That's what PoE opted for in the end - a pare down of the MF equivalent (while leaving IIQ - quantity boosts - as a product of how much challenge you want to undertake on each map) which means clearspeed and build strength becomes what players strive to build and upgrade for, rather than landing yellows that have 34 MF instead of 21 just so that next Shako dropped from the same jackpot lever you've pulled for the 1287th time will be Golden instead of blue.
Honestly, I'm don't think it's an amazing game. Firstly without help guides and videos you'd be experimenting for days and weeks to find the best runewords and character builds. Second there's not that much variety. Yes at Hell you get tough unique mobs but you quickly learn to adapt with right gear and playstyle. Third it's a grind for melee characters, endless monsters to attack and your weapons and armor need repairing too often. Fourth it's too easy for characters like cold sorc or poison/CE necro. Fifth there's no real endgame content other than uber-tristram which is just rehashed bosses. Blizzard missed a trick to make this game as good as it could be with d2r (basically a reskin +stash) and d3 (nuff said), its really just an imba grindfest for the best gear and runes, unless you wanna hand over cash for those dual dreams and save a whole year of your life
I knew most of this stuff, but I'm assuming this also means that having more MF doesn't _reduce_ rune drops either. That was a rumor floating around, but if rune drops are literally completely unaffected by your MF in either direction, that's good to know. As I understand it, the only exception to this is countess, where high player count reduces the number of rune drops you get, since high player count increases the _number_ of drops, thus replacing the runes that come from her special rune table (though the chance for runes from the all-mobs-of-that-level table stays the same).
I think a lot of the confusion for beginners comes from quantity vs. quality and the name of the stat. It is called "+X% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items" and you might think: "oh I get 50% more magic items" (quantity), but actually it means: the items that are already selected to drop (over which you have no control) have a 50% better chance to be magic instead of white/normal. And of course when I just started I thought it was a trash stat as it only mentioned magic (blue) items and not rares, sets or uniques, I didn't know it also applied to rares and better. Another thing to note is that monsters themselves have an internal MF percentage, for bosses this is way way higher than for regular monsters. Your MF percentage only modifies that percentage. So if a regular skeleton has a 0.1% chance of dropping a unique item, your 400% MF (which is about 150% effective MF for uniques) will only turn that into a 0.25% chance, still not that impressive. That's why MF-ing is best done against bosses, superuniques (like Pindleskin) and unique monsters in high level areas, such as the Pits. As their internal MF chances are much higher, your own MF becomes much more effective.
Hey guys, according to D2 drop calculators it is possible to have too much magic find when looking specifically for set items. For example, Tals amulet has a 1:1929 chance of dropping from hell andy with 360 MF and a 1:2039 chance of dropping from hell andy with 700 MF. Obviously not a huge difference, but I'm guessing there is a sweet spot of MF that has the highest chances of a unique amulet NOT rolling so that a set amulet can roll. Let me know your thoughts
For early magic find on my trapsin I like to combine the power of three tancred's with ammy and sigons gloves and belt and suddenly you have high mf in addition to 50% increased attack speed. Shield is Rhyme and at some point I'm gonna make Wealth. It's a tad slow to kill things rn but I should be able to grind a bit more to bring my lightning sentry up to full and my fire blast already is so good to go.
Goes to show that if you have 500 MF and you're killing twice as slow as 200 MF you should go with 200 MF. Great video thank you. Spent the last few days trying to get an Ethereal Berserker Axe and I've been running around with 304% MF....gonna take it OFF 100% for finding bases now.
mannnnnn I'm not even playing this game but these videos remind me my obsession for micro details playing this game 20 years ago ! what a legendary game
In my early days, I thought having a high mf number would increased my chances of getting good items when I identify, so I would keep my items to identify them on my sorc, I was a real 5Head back in the days XD
The concept you’re discussing is called diminishing marginal returns. Each additional point of mf helps, but helps less than the last. Not to be confused with diminishing returns.
When people say "diminishing returns" they mean what you're calling "diminishing marginal returns." When adding more of something is actually bad (not simply "less good") that is called negative returns.
True to that, figured kill speed is important, total efficiency is needed. If it’s possible to kill do Mephisto run in one minute, that means you can have 60 times of the odds in one hour.
For PoE people: MF increases item *rarity*, and kill speed = item *quantity*. Since item rarity has diminishing returns, don't (drastically) reduce your kill speed because quantity > rarity.
IF you're playing a blizzard sorc you're going to melt everything regardless. I would gladly take 800 mf over 400mf even if it means i kill the boss a measly 1-2 seconds slower.
@@txcr6178 yeah I said don't do anything that drastically reduces kill speed. As long as you're not gimping your damage it's fine to add MF, but you shouldn't prioritize it over killspeed once you're at that 2-400ish range.
I have been looking FOREVER for a *Normal Monarch* (for a Spirit shield) and in the entirety of my playthrough, I only found 3 Monarch(s) and ALL 3 were magic enchanted (2 blue, 1 legendary) even though I only have 31% magic find on my character. I just HATE it when things like magic find work that one time I DON'T need it. lol
Low magic find usually means poorer player. However, you still get more chance to obtain rune word bases, which can be used to trade with better items. Impressed how clever D2 is designed and realized how creators of D3 had no real understanding over the core principles of D2
Even if 400% MF doubled your unique drop chances over 200% MF, you still want to kill things 2x faster for the potential rune drops as well. I would say after 250-300% ish MF I would heavily invest into improving clear speed.
@@namonamo494 I should have prob worded it better. In a way you're right, after around 150% you should start focusing on better items for clear speed if you're still using stuff like 3 socket P topaz items purely for MF. I made it a priority to reach higher faster cast rate breakpoints instead of trying to go for more MF. The higher end gear does naturally put you around 300 without sacrificing much. I opted for regular life sc and cold skillers over stacking a bunch of mf small charms so that I can be as aggressive as possible.
You can have too much. If you go from 200% to 250% MF, you will find 6.6% more uniques on average (I will omit the fact that there are breakpoints: 250% gives you 2.25x the chance, but for 2.26x the chance you need 255% - this interval will keep on increasing). But if because of that your clear speed will decrease by more than 6.6% = then this is not profitable for you. Rule of thumb: get your MF to around 200-250% mark and you will find way more uniques, still a lot of socketables (only like 10-12% decrease). Any additional MF should come only if it doesn't affect your clear speed.
This really goes to show how powerful alternating weapons to an ali-baba/milebragas is early in a ladder season. It almost doubles your unique drops when you’re only running 50-100 other MF.
@@wildwest1832 I guess I was referring to picking one up from D2JSP (as they cost basically nothing, even early season), but I guess that’s not for everyone.
@@wildwest1832 no, you can gamble decent mf gear from the vendor and easily farm up a 3 perf topaz helm for level 18 if you really want, thats easy 150+
@@genesises yea the 3 topaz helm is definitely a great idea if you haven't found much prior I'm still using on Merc and letting Merc get final blow seems to be a good boost as I still haven't found Ali baba or gull,. Using a 55 Langer briser instead
350-400 is probably ideal in most cases, but what if your a barb horkin up bodies? theres no reason not to stack mf. blizz sorc can easily go above 500 and still do most areas with ease. It also depends on player skill, if you aren't very good at the game then you're going to want max resist and a ton of hp and damage because it doesnt matter how much mf you have if you are dying. If you're pretty decent, then you can just get a few fcr breakpoints and the rest mf and do just fine in most cases.
350-400 is great if you still have the clear speed. That’s the whole point of the video. If you drop to 250 mf and clear monsters twice as fast because you have more kill power, then 250mf is better.
Did any of you D2R content creators “weigh in” on the ongoing server issues, i feel like its an issue that should be talked about by more visible community members. The silence from blizzard is deafening, they’re not even explaining what the problem is.
It takes no genius to figure out why the servers are struggling. Everyone and their grandma is running a 30 sec game doing a Baal or Kurast chests and then log off and immediately starts a new game, rinse and repeat a hundred times per player on each server. And all the bots, oh all the bots. No one is playing this game everyone is working it and with a server netcode older than most of the players it does not as I said take genius to figure out why the servers are struggling.
@@BolinFoto never had these issues with D2 servers in 20 years of playing it. They broke the game code. I never had a single crash on d2 (still installed on every one of my computers). I've had at least 20 crashes alone, not to mention my groups crashes.
Wow awesome video!!!! I thought more was worst because when I went from 200 to 350 all my drops went to crap. I guess RNG was on my side when I had 200 lol
I respect Llama's knowledge on the game, and I agree with what he's saying 100%. I stick arond 250-300mf and have my best luck there. So I'm definitely not arguing that he is right, because he is. I just do what works best for me.
@@codyrisling3253 i got it after going to the second area from the start. I don't even know what a full dagger is, i only know Gull because i googled it when i saw the 100% magic find. Btw it's a lvl 4 item so you might wanna check yourself. Little to no original diablo 2 experience
I will admit my mistakes when I’m wrong…and I’m wrong. I made a new character(javazon) I was level 6 in den of evil with 7% magic find and I got a gull dagger.. I was wrong, my apologies.
You only have too much magic find if it is really inhibiting your ability to kill monsters relatively fast. Had 400 on my D2r blizz sorc but hell cows was going too slow so I brought it down to 320 and added +3 all skills. Now I'm smoking cows fast and more items dropping. Great vid llama thx.
Nobody ever talks about the brilliant loot system that D2 has in place. It's literally the difference between a good and great ARPG. It blows my mind that nobody has emulated this system. Why don't other ARPG's have treasure classes?
@@KainLustt It gets more complicated than this but the short version is all items are grouped in to a Treasure class. Then each area and monster has a treasure class (or below) it can drop. This is separate from item level.
It blows my mind you think no other games have this system.... it's been that way since before Diablo II... I can think of different 90's games even that have it.
I’ve been playing D2 since it’s original launch and I was always under the assumption that if your merc killed something it only took his MF into consideration. It’s nice to know that it’s his + yours. I’d always tele away at the last second so my blizzard would kill and not the merc. Now I’ll let him get the last blow for the extra mf on his gear.
You kind of can have too much magic find, though. At some point, it starts getting really hard for you to find runeword bases. If you have 300% MF, you'll have pretty solid chance of getting uniques, and you'll still be able to get some good bases. At 1000% MF, since it increases linearly for magic items, bases will become a lot more scarce. Given the fact that runeword bases are often worth a LOT, that should definitely be a factor.
Hey brother, can you do a guide on buffs? Auras etc and how they effect the character? Maybe the merc choices avail....what each build goes with, good ones to have a chance of proccing etc on hit or bring hit.
I'd like to have seen a bit on how weapon swapping affects it. I've been told that only the MF you have equipped when the monster dies counts, so I can on my sorc run double spirit and then swap to alibaba and rhyme a split second before the boss dies and get the extra MF without losing much killing power. Is this true?
Me with 20x +150% IMF charms with Hero Editor(its some kind of a cheat for SinglePlayer) back in the day thinking I'd get +3000% chance getting yellow/green/unique rofl Thanks for the info, this really helps a lot for my future D2R gameplay....I think stacking 150%-300% IMF is fine from now onwards
Yea looking at this I would say 150 to 200 is the sweet spot im at 267 and I keep getting sets so I’ll be dropping my mf. More is good but I feel for the last 2 weeks sets are getting old.
I'm new to d2r and got a vex rune in the den on hell, ended up trading it for a really mediocre torch but at the time I didnt know much about the game and figured it was worth the trade. Lesson learned.
Played for years, didn’t really do much more than boss runs back in the day. I found my very first Sur rune last week; literally the first one in 20 years.
I started playing last week and lost my character due to power outage so started over and immediately put a topaz into my helmet en 2 into my armor even though the gems are poor quality just to kick start the magic find.
In the realm of MF itself, yes there’s always an improvement for an MF increment. Nonetheless, bear in mind that MF is a stat that bears opportunity costs to other stats like FCR, +skills, AR, IAS, etc. Given that the majority of items players need MF for are unique items which have the most punishing diminishing returns, there’s absolutely a spot of ‘too much’ MF where your overall clearing time suffers from having more than optimal MF which results in a decrease in the expected rare/set/unique items farmed per hour which puts you away from getting the item you’re looking for. Therefore, I would say, in practice, yes, there can be too much MF.
Agreed. This video can mislead people a bit. People don't realize they need to be timing themselves to determine optimal MF. I've heard people complaining about not finding elite loot in hours with 600+ mf. But in those hours they've hardly killed anything. Since they are squishier, have less +skills, and are overall less efficient. If they would just drop down to 250, they could have done 3x-4x the amount of content. Which is 3-4x more opportunities for loot.
Love the shirt! Love the content! Great info off this channel and it's helped me avoid some of the pitfalls of playing thru D2R. THANK YOU and keep up the great work
Little known fact: MF actually stands for Multiply Fun (or More Fun for you PoE players). In order to achieve maximum fun you have to balance base fun with MF. Too much MF = lower fun
is there a benefit for finding jewel, charms,ring or amulets having magic find% equipped? when a item get selected to drop before it decides quality like x monster is dead now its more likely to pick "charm" category due to magic find % or would you get same amount of charms jewels not taking their quality into account only quantity? just checked drop calculator and it does not help with frequency of dropped charms or jewels as magic find % does not increase the odds of dropping.
the game rolls to find out what base item drops first. that might be a short sword, a charm, a breast plate, a rune. anything like that. MF doesn't matter for that. After this, *if* the item can be unique/set/rare/magic, the game rolls in that order to see if the item will be. MF *does* matter here. so jewels, rings, and amulets can be unique/rare/magic, and MF helps. the only charm that isn't magic is Gheed's, so MF helps finding Gheeds. but you'll find the same number of jewels, etc, regardless of your MF. just like you'll find the same number of breast plates, regardless of how often you find a set/unique breast plate.
YAY! The butt flower is back!! Thx, MrLlama! I do find myself wondering what the "optimal" mf might be...? I was thinking anywhere from 270-330(ish)? Looks like you get about 2/3 the max effective mf value for uniques.
anywhere between 200 and 400 where you have comfortable clear speed and survival. If you can go even higher, then do it, but it's not likely people are going above 400 and having that great clear speed. So the optimal mf is quite literally the highest you can get the number to be and still do the content you want to do.
i found my sweet Spot with 370% mf while having a good killspeed.. i do this with the frozen orb / firewall build.. occu with ist Rune, shako with perf topas, tal rasha armor with 5% cold dmg jewel and Belt, war traveler boots.
Generally 200-400 is the sweet spot. I've made things on sp to drastically boost mf... not really worth the time. Even with good kill speed, 1000+ mf has VERY diminishing returns.
Nope. Not at all what this should tell you. 200% MF is a very good starting point. But with a Blizzard Sorc you will probably end up with between 400 and 600 MF. Depending on the amount of MF charms you get, maybe even 700-ish Did you not listen to what Llama said in the first few minutes? You can never have too much MF. Yes, survivability and clear speed are important, but those will basically come with the MF gear or just the general gear you farm. Like, seriously, the graph Llama shows has been known for years and years and years and people run around with WAY more than 200 MF. Didn't you stop to think why that is the case, before coming to your conclusion?
@@ThorsShadow the case is stupidity. Same reason people keep eating the things which lowered human immune systems to even allow a pandemic in the first place. It is also why some people were rich and others spend weeks on end running high mf baal runs for miserable drops. Meanwhile people who focused on clear speed in things like ancient tunnels and just teleporting faster racked in all the drops. They also rushed characters to hell for the rune drop quest in act 4 and ran that over and over and over and over again. That was the actual fastest way to get rich in diablo2. High runes were so rare that you could trade them for any item you wanted. Even other rune words :P. Meanwhile people were doing 800 mf mephisto runs all day lollll . they best they got was a high lords or a soj lmfao. High mf and mephisto runs made sense in early versions. People didn't understand how much the patches changed. People also would not pick up rares - even though rares had the potential to be better than EVERY unique in the game. And rares is what the high mf chance increases. So ... lol.
A simple rule is that if you struggle to kill mobs since you gimped yourself maxing out your magic find then you do have to much. Find a balance that work for you.
Thank you for clearing this up for me. I think about it often wondering if I'm going to mess up the RNG and natural roll of unique item drops and runes.
@ISPY4ever If 7% some lightning res and 20% some MF is a good ring, yeah, I'm wearing two of those good stuff. 😕 Come on, they're garbage. But they're the best rings I've got after playing for a month.
it is a simple algorithm, when i do random generation in python i can put increased chance to get specific number(i can put borders on initial pool of numbers range). Same is here, when you get MF your algorithm value is increased. If you want more fancy stuff they can do linear regression and get specific for your class items like in diablo 3. Its not a big deal or rocket science.. get MF and you will get increased value of specific range in rng algorithm. Example random.randrange(1, 50) i can change value in that range with your MF %... so basically i can narrow the pool of items you can get. Rng is not true rng. :)
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20 years later we're still discussing the same concepts. Awesome game.
Lmao All these new/old videos coming out again and I'm like: "Here we go again."
I appreciate these easily digestible videos. TH-cam didn’t exist when this game came out. I didn’t go to any forums or discussion boards as a kid, so the explanation of the minutiae is really helpful.
Lol
sm0kie... remember that after 20yrs they've realized how a3 works... so never always the same concepts :D
@@riesabass what do you mean?
20 years ago games like Diablo 2, MtG, and D&D got me comfortable using numbers and stats to optimize things. This eventually gave me the confidence to go to school for software, and that's how I make my living today. ❤️
I definitely noticed the benefit of even a little bit of magic find. Starting out with a fresh stash in D2R, my sorceress wasn't finding much of anything throughout my first playthrough, and I didn't have any good gear at all. Just a Stealth and a Leaf was pretty much all that sustained me through Normal and the beginning of Nightmare. I got maybe two or three trash uniques throughout the entirety of Normal.
And then nightmare Andy gave me a goldwrap. And then I farmed nightmare Countess for Shael and Amn runes to switch out my Leaf for a Spirit sword and a Rhyme shield so I could respec to cold. And then I gambled a good pair of gloves that had 25% mf on them. And I found a magic ring with +10% fcr and some magic find... And somewhere throughout act 3 a Tarnhelm dropped and I switched out my Lore for it. And when I reached the end of Nightmare I was sitting on around 150% mf.
Going back to Andy and Meph for a few test farming runs, the difference was very notable. The number of uniques I got was way higher. Eventually as your mf builds and you become more capable at killing the content, you will have that moment where the 'dam bursts' and uniques are starting to flow.
When a kid asks his math teacher why he has to learn math, he should just show him a couple Mrllama videos.
I always thought how cool and interesting would it be if these examples were used as practical application to teach math. I know I would be extremely interested back in school.
That kid is already lost. I automatically applied all the maths I knew and was trying to do the maths for my DPS before I even heard any one discuss the proper formulas and break points. You either use it or you are too dim and hopeless.
Many people playing with me were doing their own maths also.
Kids who ask where will i need maths don't understand how to actually apply knowledge they have. There is a way way bigger issue at hand..
Sick burn bro
Nice idea, but kids need to understand how logarithms work for this graph to make sense.
Most of my teenage years' English came from D2
You know its going to be a good video when Llama breaks out the graphs 👍🏼
Lmaoooo
That is true - MrLLamaSC
There are too few doing this - I love Grphs.
This is a mf graph that has always been around
Acting as if he came up with this graph.
being new to the game i was so excited when i had a 2 socket grey shako drop. Thinking that it was worth something because everyone always wants a shako. but it's a shako not a shako.
I had that experience like 20 years ago, shako everywhere then I got to hell and 1 dropped, YES! Lol
Yea same thing happened to me only beat the old lod with pally on normal, played d2r like a man fury druid a shako dropped my jaw dropped and it was white hahaha I was like to people imbue these for shako…no no they dont hahaha though lesson
This is why I don't like when people call it Shako instead of Harlequin's. Literally only one extra syllable, and then the name is accurate haha.
When I played this game for the first time in 2008, I made a game "O Ist N Shako".
Someone came to the game and put a socketed Shako with an emerald in the trade window (the shako was green colored because of that) and I was so hyped that accepted the trade before even checking the Shako.
Obviously noticed my mistake after the trade :))
Lol you can socket rune word lore into it and pretend it’s a real shacko if you want. 😂
Came back in spring 2021 after viewing some of your class guides. Thank you so much MrLlamaSC for helping me get back to one of my favorite games 15 years later! Also, just found my very first Shako last night with my sorc, inside an armor rack (!!!), while heading to the countess!!!
That's an awesome find :] gz
Noice!!!
Cool I just got my first Griffon Eye Diadem I was so stoked.
If you play offline then this rack will always drop shaco. You just have to be sure there's no mosters around it cause it'll be theirs drop tables then.
13:15 YESS! I had this question and didnt find the answear anywere. For RUNEWORD BASES = NO MAGIC FIND. Thankss.
Where did you look it up? It's even on the D2-Wikipedia and I heard alot of TH-camrs saying it's just about the quantity of mobs you kill, not about MF regarding runes
Runes are all about number of players and number of mobs, which is why Chaos and Cows are king for runes because the mob density and set map shape makes clear speed vs. mob ratio very high.
I tend to just run with 150-200 normally then around 300 on weapon swap. Works just fine for me and clear speed is good.
I'm just starting but have around 280 on weapon and boots/glove swap seems to be good for drops
This is the answer. I have a gull dagger and rhyme on swap for my blizz sorc. As long as I swap before the last hit, I have +125% more magic find.
@@AnthemTD does the ability that gets the last hit have to be from the swap or can I cast the final blizzard and swap right before it dies?
@@CR4V3Y I’m interested on the answer to your question
@@CR4V3Y I’m not totally sure, I usually cast the last blizz after I swap because sometimes I miss the swap if I don’t. Llama and others have said previously that swapping to more MF for the last hit works but never specified that.
So I've been playing a duel spec sorc. Frozen orb/chain lightning. Obviously static field to. It took me a while to figure out the best way to play. If you got a fast enough cast rate. You can throw frozen Orb (while frozen orb is on cool down) use static field to bring down half the enemies health (on hell difficulty) then spam chain lightning and go back to throwing up frozen orb. Then repeat on cool down. It is such a fun build and it shreds
One thing I learned recently is, combining key bindings and clicks helps reduce the frame count between casts. I tested this on my sorc, blizz/static field I can basically cast both at the same time without noticing any lag between. So I lead with blizz and spam static 2 or 3 times before my next blizz cast. This has worked amazingly in places like cow, chaos sanctuary, halls of pain, and just overall mfing. And even though I'm a glixx sorc. My firewall does 7.5k too. So I have a bit of everything and my Merc does 3-6 k per hit with botd eth giant thresher and fortitude.
Blizzard is so much better man. i switched today after being orb.fire. life is 100x better now.
Huh, I'm watching this and a Harlequin crest drops at Meph. Can't complain it is the best item that could drop for me at this point.
I got a 35 gheeds from a tomb in act 1 Hell, always break those breakables and open chests.
@@jonnycatland1987 ppl underestimate the poppables
Literally only time I've gotten high runes was popping bodies and chests.
Been a lurker for a while, just subscribed. Your vids are just to informational, in a good format and just in general you have a perfect way of teaching this stuff
*too
@@clammerify salty boi
As of the 1.03 patch, Magic Find only affects the drops when a monster dies. It has no effect on chests, barrels, or other containers.
Lod joins the chat:
Runes doesnt care about mf
@@Jefecino sry i assumed that was commonly known
I’m glad he covered the socketed items (bases) @ the end. Thanks for the Info MrLlama
I did not expect to want to watch literally every single one of your videos :'D love the content man! Such good information, thank you!!
Llama thank you for making these videos on the basic math behind the game. I've been watching you for a few years after your AGDQ run and every time I feel inclined to pick up the game you have some new videos I can learn some cool stuff from
MF vs Kill speed depends on the ratio of time spent between teleporting and killing. Runs that have a lot of movement will favor MF because the actual boss killing part is a smaller portion of the run. Runs that have the majority of time spent killing will favor clear speed over MF.
FCR is extremely important for MF runs on Battlenet due to the lack of knowing where to go. There are mathematical choices that are better than alternative choices to help, but generally, FCR > +Skills. Skills are more important for linear locations like Chaos Sanctuary; although, a little FCR helps too. From here you decide how much MF you can get without sacrificing that clear time.
@@AmyLovesYou He was talking about clear speed not FCR, FCR has Breakpoints which you cannot surpass once you have enough to hit your BP , Clear speed comes from the damage you have mainly so your comparison is just confusing for anyone that is not familiar with the game and the terms. Please clarify what you actually mean " by FCR > + Skills" ?
After 20 years i still learn something new. Thanks Mr.llama ... It's all about the Speed, and the loading Screens on xbox one are horrible
The last week or so I’ve been watching these videos like I’m studying for an exam lol these are so good
I always found my sweet spot to be around 200 mf on most toons and 300ish on a sorc with focus more on mindset of clear speed -> more runs -> more drops
Oh how I love how this age old debate is once again live and well. What an amazing ass game that blends that endorphin rush with also mixing in that ability to give agency to the player to give that chance to change the odds.
This is what games now are missing. POE could’ve been perfect if they had a more in depth loot chase and also more direct agency of me changing that to a certain degree.
I do believe TTK (Time To Kill) meaning pathing to and killing the mobs of interest has equal parity in importance to MF%.
This is probably the greatest game ever. After 20 years, it still keeps you up until irresponsible hours of the night. Its this reason why im so excited for Diablo 4...it would be suicide to release a D2 remaster, give people a taste of greatness, and then fall short with D4. They have no choice but to make it equally great.
@@JoseAlbn considering how blizz treated their new releases for a very long time now you should be anything but excited for d4
I respectfully refer to D2 as a timeless classic and way ahead of its time, and it shaped all ARPGs to ever come after it.
MF in its state, however, appears to give player agency in the very short run but strips it in the very long run. Examine how many builds can stack MF early on in the game with low powered gear while maintaining efficient clear. Get a look at the massive difference in value of Sorc Toches versus a druid one. MF skews the playstle and player choice towards certain builds for 70% of the playerbase, polarising further the awkward (and that's being gentle) class/skill balance that hasn't been touched whatsoever for D2R.
Just think about how much the game would change if certain underplayed classes gained sprinkles of MF on their BiS or close to BiS items. There would actually be new builds being pushed to the fore and new content showing us things we don't already know before from thousands of hours of D2.
That's what PoE opted for in the end - a pare down of the MF equivalent (while leaving IIQ - quantity boosts - as a product of how much challenge you want to undertake on each map) which means clearspeed and build strength becomes what players strive to build and upgrade for, rather than landing yellows that have 34 MF instead of 21 just so that next Shako dropped from the same jackpot lever you've pulled for the 1287th time will be Golden instead of blue.
Honestly, I'm don't think it's an amazing game. Firstly without help guides and videos you'd be experimenting for days and weeks to find the best runewords and character builds. Second there's not that much variety. Yes at Hell you get tough unique mobs but you quickly learn to adapt with right gear and playstyle. Third it's a grind for melee characters, endless monsters to attack and your weapons and armor need repairing too often. Fourth it's too easy for characters like cold sorc or poison/CE necro. Fifth there's no real endgame content other than uber-tristram which is just rehashed bosses. Blizzard missed a trick to make this game as good as it could be with d2r (basically a reskin +stash) and d3 (nuff said), its really just an imba grindfest for the best gear and runes, unless you wanna hand over cash for those dual dreams and save a whole year of your life
I knew most of this stuff, but I'm assuming this also means that having more MF doesn't _reduce_ rune drops either. That was a rumor floating around, but if rune drops are literally completely unaffected by your MF in either direction, that's good to know. As I understand it, the only exception to this is countess, where high player count reduces the number of rune drops you get, since high player count increases the _number_ of drops, thus replacing the runes that come from her special rune table (though the chance for runes from the all-mobs-of-that-level table stays the same).
if an item was determined to be a rune, it’s gunna do the rune roll instead of the wearable item roll
I think a lot of the confusion for beginners comes from quantity vs. quality and the name of the stat. It is called "+X% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items" and you might think: "oh I get 50% more magic items" (quantity), but actually it means: the items that are already selected to drop (over which you have no control) have a 50% better chance to be magic instead of white/normal.
And of course when I just started I thought it was a trash stat as it only mentioned magic (blue) items and not rares, sets or uniques, I didn't know it also applied to rares and better.
Another thing to note is that monsters themselves have an internal MF percentage, for bosses this is way way higher than for regular monsters. Your MF percentage only modifies that percentage. So if a regular skeleton has a 0.1% chance of dropping a unique item, your 400% MF (which is about 150% effective MF for uniques) will only turn that into a 0.25% chance, still not that impressive.
That's why MF-ing is best done against bosses, superuniques (like Pindleskin) and unique monsters in high level areas, such as the Pits. As their internal MF chances are much higher, your own MF becomes much more effective.
You do a great job at explaining the concept and rates, going into the idea of kill/magic find. Well done!
Hey guys, according to D2 drop calculators it is possible to have too much magic find when looking specifically for set items. For example, Tals amulet has a 1:1929 chance of dropping from hell andy with 360 MF and a 1:2039 chance of dropping from hell andy with 700 MF. Obviously not a huge difference, but I'm guessing there is a sweet spot of MF that has the highest chances of a unique amulet NOT rolling so that a set amulet can roll. Let me know your thoughts
Drop calculator is probably just incorrect. I believe the graph in this video. More MF = more set items.
@@hueysharapova7175it's right, search for "How does Magic Find actually work? An Advanced Guide to Magic Find Formula"
Doesn't get more thorough than this! Thanks for the math and graphs! Its easy to want 500 MF and plink stuff hoping its helping
I’m surprised you didn’t mention having MF on swap and swapping before last hitting bosses. Such a good way to get more MF on meph and andy runs
There literally no point. You may as well just wear MF gear all the time. Swapping gear out for MF gear is ridiculously superfluous.
For early magic find on my trapsin I like to combine the power of three tancred's with ammy and sigons gloves and belt and suddenly you have high mf in addition to 50% increased attack speed. Shield is Rhyme and at some point I'm gonna make Wealth. It's a tad slow to kill things rn but I should be able to grind a bit more to bring my lightning sentry up to full and my fire blast already is so good to go.
Goes to show that if you have 500 MF and you're killing twice as slow as 200 MF you should go with 200 MF. Great video thank you. Spent the last few days trying to get an Ethereal Berserker Axe and I've been running around with 304% MF....gonna take it OFF 100% for finding bases now.
mannnnnn I'm not even playing this game but these videos remind me my obsession for micro details playing this game 20 years ago ! what a legendary game
In my early days, I thought having a high mf number would increased my chances of getting good items when I identify, so I would keep my items to identify them on my sorc, I was a real 5Head back in the days XD
The concept you’re discussing is called diminishing marginal returns. Each additional point of mf helps, but helps less than the last. Not to be confused with diminishing returns.
When people say "diminishing returns" they mean what you're calling "diminishing marginal returns." When adding more of something is actually bad (not simply "less good") that is called negative returns.
no. there is way more going on here.
True to that, figured kill speed is important, total efficiency is needed. If it’s possible to kill do Mephisto run in one minute, that means you can have 60 times of the odds in one hour.
You want at least 3min runs
After getting the gull I've been getting all sorts of cool drops.
Same.
Yeah I notice if I don’t weapon you swap to the gull it seems like I get less drops, first run today had a shako drop
What about Ali Baba? Seems to be less rare than Gull and still has good mf.
@@tilmanr.3299 anything you can quick swap too with higher mf should be alright honestly you just have to get the last hit in with it
Never saw a graph like this, but that explains alot why ppl back in the days told me, that ~250-350 is enough to find everything
For PoE people: MF increases item *rarity*, and kill speed = item *quantity*.
Since item rarity has diminishing returns, don't (drastically) reduce your kill speed because quantity > rarity.
IF you're playing a blizzard sorc you're going to melt everything regardless. I would gladly take 800 mf over 400mf even if it means i kill the boss a measly 1-2 seconds slower.
@@txcr6178 yeah I said don't do anything that drastically reduces kill speed.
As long as you're not gimping your damage it's fine to add MF, but you shouldn't prioritize it over killspeed once you're at that 2-400ish range.
I have been looking FOREVER for a *Normal Monarch* (for a Spirit shield) and in the entirety of my playthrough, I only found 3 Monarch(s) and ALL 3 were magic enchanted (2 blue, 1 legendary) even though I only have 31% magic find on my character. I just HATE it when things like magic find work that one time I DON'T need it. lol
I spent ages looking before I finished hell and couldn’t find one. Hell cows dropped one in 5 runs
@@dimscape4409 Ah thanks! I will try one last time this week (in Act 5 - Hall of Pain) and if I don't get it there, I will try the cow level lastly.
The Diablo II resurrection really activated you again Mrllama 💙 great and informative
I remember back 20 years ago in 8th grade, i couldn't wait to go home from school to play Diablo2. Now I get the same feeling when I'm at work. 😂
Low magic find usually means poorer player. However, you still get more chance to obtain rune word bases, which can be used to trade with better items. Impressed how clever D2 is designed and realized how creators of D3 had no real understanding over the core principles of D2
It's quite simple, I see Llama vids and I watch!
Even if 400% MF doubled your unique drop chances over 200% MF, you still want to kill things 2x faster for the potential rune drops as well. I would say after 250-300% ish MF I would heavily invest into improving clear speed.
well that's when you actually do have too much mf
when you become too squishy for what you do or too slow
@@namonamo494 I should have prob worded it better. In a way you're right, after around 150% you should start focusing on better items for clear speed if you're still using stuff like 3 socket P topaz items purely for MF. I made it a priority to reach higher faster cast rate breakpoints instead of trying to go for more MF. The higher end gear does naturally put you around 300 without sacrificing much. I opted for regular life sc and cold skillers over stacking a bunch of mf small charms so that I can be as aggressive as possible.
You can have too much. If you go from 200% to 250% MF, you will find 6.6% more uniques on average (I will omit the fact that there are breakpoints: 250% gives you 2.25x the chance, but for 2.26x the chance you need 255% - this interval will keep on increasing). But if because of that your clear speed will decrease by more than 6.6% = then this is not profitable for you. Rule of thumb: get your MF to around 200-250% mark and you will find way more uniques, still a lot of socketables (only like 10-12% decrease). Any additional MF should come only if it doesn't affect your clear speed.
This really goes to show how powerful alternating weapons to an ali-baba/milebragas is early in a ladder season. It almost doubles your unique drops when you’re only running 50-100 other MF.
right its a chicken and egg thing. You cant find any magic find or good items without having high MF to begin with
@@wildwest1832 I guess I was referring to picking one up from D2JSP (as they cost basically nothing, even early season), but I guess that’s not for everyone.
@@wildwest1832 no, you can gamble decent mf gear from the vendor and easily farm up a 3 perf topaz helm for level 18 if you really want, thats easy 150+
@Wild West
You can gamble Gull dagger for 1 mil gold on average.
@@genesises yea the 3 topaz helm is definitely a great idea if you haven't found much prior I'm still using on Merc and letting Merc get final blow seems to be a good boost as I still haven't found Ali baba or gull,. Using a 55 Langer briser instead
You are basically WoW's Preach but for Diablo and that is awesome, I've learned more in two weeks than over the past 20 years.
Eww no.
Llama is actually mechanically good
Nice! You're on 🔥 lately MrLamma! I've read that 350-400% mf is ideal because after that the diminishing returns hits too hard.
I was literally gonna ask what the ideal would be, and i was leaning onto that 350-400% judging by that graph.
That and if you get any higher than that you start to sacrifice way too much stats and your runs take way longer
350-400 is probably ideal in most cases, but what if your a barb horkin up bodies? theres no reason not to stack mf. blizz sorc can easily go above 500 and still do most areas with ease.
It also depends on player skill, if you aren't very good at the game then you're going to want max resist and a ton of hp and damage because it doesnt matter how much mf you have if you are dying.
If you're pretty decent, then you can just get a few fcr breakpoints and the rest mf and do just fine in most cases.
It's also about clear speed because at the end of the day the more monsters you kill the more HRs and GG items you get
350-400 is great if you still have the clear speed. That’s the whole point of the video. If you drop to 250 mf and clear monsters twice as fast because you have more kill power, then 250mf is better.
Diablo remaster is a good game
Yes but i played the original a lot and this i find not enuf better Didnt like diablo 3 also
Waiting for the real remaster. DIABLO not 2
@@xVertigo101 you already got that as a side game in D3
You mean : Diablo 2 is a good game.
When the servers don't go down on sunday afternoon :p
I’m so happy to finally see this day, I’ve been waiting for a remake since 2008
9:53 llama giving great advice for my music career
Did any of you D2R content creators “weigh in” on the ongoing server issues, i feel like its an issue that should be talked about by more visible community members. The silence from blizzard is deafening, they’re not even explaining what the problem is.
Weigh*
Facts right here. Almost a month in.
Cant sign in this morning, my day off too
It takes no genius to figure out why the servers are struggling.
Everyone and their grandma is running a 30 sec game doing a Baal or Kurast chests and then log off and immediately starts a new game, rinse and repeat a hundred times per player on each server.
And all the bots, oh all the bots.
No one is playing this game everyone is working it and with a server netcode older than most of the players it does not as I said take genius to figure out why the servers are struggling.
@@BolinFoto never had these issues with D2 servers in 20 years of playing it. They broke the game code. I never had a single crash on d2 (still installed on every one of my computers). I've had at least 20 crashes alone, not to mention my groups crashes.
Wow awesome video!!!! I thought more was worst because when I went from 200 to 350 all my drops went to crap. I guess RNG was on my side when I had 200 lol
How does he know if an unique or set item drops, if he walks away from enemies before they die to blizzard?
Most of time time, if hes going for an ilvl 87 item, only unique mobs even have a chance to drop the items.
Audio lol
^^^ agree Audio
@@joshuagraham9053 There is no audio queue in D2 for uniques. An armor has a drop sound. The quality of the armor doesnt change that sound.
@@Gizdalord Yea but if it's a ring or amu or grand charm I always turn back ;)
I respect Llama's knowledge on the game, and I agree with what he's saying 100%. I stick arond 250-300mf and have my best luck there. So I'm definitely not arguing that he is right, because he is. I just do what works best for me.
That's a random fan made chart just so you know 😂
Seeing as i got Gull Dagger in the first 5 mins of starting Diablo 2, I'd say yes I do have too much magic find
Hmmmmmmm….lies. Considering a full dagger won’t spawn(even gambled) before level 8. Did you get to level 8 in that time…..no.
@@codyrisling3253 i got it after going to the second area from the start. I don't even know what a full dagger is, i only know Gull because i googled it when i saw the 100% magic find. Btw it's a lvl 4 item so you might wanna check yourself. Little to no original diablo 2 experience
@@codyrisling3253i have also gotten gull dagger in the den of evil
I will admit my mistakes when I’m wrong…and I’m wrong. I made a new character(javazon) I was level 6 in den of evil with 7% magic find and I got a gull dagger.. I was wrong, my apologies.
You only have too much magic find if it is really inhibiting your ability to kill monsters relatively fast. Had 400 on my D2r blizz sorc but hell cows was going too slow so I brought it down to 320 and added +3 all skills. Now I'm smoking cows fast and more items dropping. Great vid llama thx.
Nobody ever talks about the brilliant loot system that D2 has in place. It's literally the difference between a good and great ARPG.
It blows my mind that nobody has emulated this system. Why don't other ARPG's have treasure classes?
What do you mean by treasure classes? 🤔
@@KainLustt It gets more complicated than this but the short version is all items are grouped in to a Treasure class. Then each area and monster has a treasure class (or below) it can drop.
This is separate from item level.
It blows my mind you think no other games have this system.... it's been that way since before Diablo II... I can think of different 90's games even that have it.
I’ve been playing D2 since it’s original launch and I was always under the assumption that if your merc killed something it only took his MF into consideration.
It’s nice to know that it’s his + yours. I’d always tele away at the last second so my blizzard would kill and not the merc. Now I’ll let him get the last blow for the extra mf on his gear.
Oooh I didn't know. That's wonderful
so you can put a MF chest piece and helm on and get his bonus to attach to yours? so like if YOU have 300 and HE has 100, you have 400?
runes are only affected by gold find, all old players know that.
You kind of can have too much magic find, though. At some point, it starts getting really hard for you to find runeword bases. If you have 300% MF, you'll have pretty solid chance of getting uniques, and you'll still be able to get some good bases. At 1000% MF, since it increases linearly for magic items, bases will become a lot more scarce. Given the fact that runeword bases are often worth a LOT, that should definitely be a factor.
most people either go max MF or min MF and farm *either* MF items *or* RW bases.
Generally you would not be looking for both uniques and bases at the same time, one or the other otherwise you get few of both
Diablo 2 Resurected is the perfect game!
Hey brother, can you do a guide on buffs? Auras etc and how they effect the character? Maybe the merc choices avail....what each build goes with, good ones to have a chance of proccing etc on hit or bring hit.
I'd like to have seen a bit on how weapon swapping affects it. I've been told that only the MF you have equipped when the monster dies counts, so I can on my sorc run double spirit and then swap to alibaba and rhyme a split second before the boss dies and get the extra MF without losing much killing power. Is this true?
yes
Yes it is
Yes
Me with 20x +150% IMF charms with Hero Editor(its some kind of a cheat for SinglePlayer) back in the day thinking I'd get +3000% chance getting yellow/green/unique rofl
Thanks for the info, this really helps a lot for my future D2R gameplay....I think stacking 150%-300% IMF is fine from now onwards
200 MF Enigma Hammerdin does its job, 2 Talarm 1 Talamu, 1 Ohm, Eth Titans and a 15 Cold Nightwing since Saturday :)
what spots did u farm ?
@@wisnia030 Tower, Travi, Meph, Dia and Nila :)
Yea looking at this I would say 150 to 200 is the sweet spot im at 267 and I keep getting sets so I’ll be dropping my mf. More is good but I feel for the last 2 weeks sets are getting old.
I feel like I gained +1 Intelligence. Great video! You made some good points. Gonna give my merc Magic Find gear!
started with d2r and i just found my first jah rune just 2 days after i found my first high rune (vex rune) i think i am kinda lucky ! xD
I'm new to d2r and got a vex rune in the den on hell, ended up trading it for a really mediocre torch but at the time I didnt know much about the game and figured it was worth the trade. Lesson learned.
Played for years, didn’t really do much more than boss runs back in the day. I found my very first Sur rune last week; literally the first one in 20 years.
My new player friend found 2 Bers under rocks in one day.
Yoooo ditto! Found a Jah rune off a random drop my second day playing and literally just found a vex tune today. Congrats bro!
I started playing last week and lost my character due to power outage so started over and immediately put a topaz into my helmet en 2 into my armor even though the gems are poor quality just to kick start the magic find.
In the realm of MF itself, yes there’s always an improvement for an MF increment. Nonetheless, bear in mind that MF is a stat that bears opportunity costs to other stats like FCR, +skills, AR, IAS, etc. Given that the majority of items players need MF for are unique items which have the most punishing diminishing returns, there’s absolutely a spot of ‘too much’ MF where your overall clearing time suffers from having more than optimal MF which results in a decrease in the expected rare/set/unique items farmed per hour which puts you away from getting the item you’re looking for. Therefore, I would say, in practice, yes, there can be too much MF.
Agreed. This video can mislead people a bit. People don't realize they need to be timing themselves to determine optimal MF. I've heard people complaining about not finding elite loot in hours with 600+ mf. But in those hours they've hardly killed anything. Since they are squishier, have less +skills, and are overall less efficient. If they would just drop down to 250, they could have done 3x-4x the amount of content. Which is 3-4x more opportunities for loot.
@@slaintwice Everything you said was mentioned in the video, nobody is being misled
@@myztik5716 my dude coming back to a comment from more than a year ago just to add nothing of substance to the conversation and be wrong
@@slaintwice my dude 11:25
@@myztik5716 😂
Love the shirt! Love the content! Great info off this channel and it's helped me avoid some of the pitfalls of playing thru D2R. THANK YOU and keep up the great work
Little known fact: MF actually stands for Multiply Fun (or More Fun for you PoE players). In order to achieve maximum fun you have to balance base fun with MF. Too much MF = lower fun
You should really stop smoking crack.
Running 200mf and I hardly get any uniques on drops I’ve ran Andy meph ancients pindle etc so many times and I’ve had nothing good drop so frustrating
is there a benefit for finding jewel, charms,ring or amulets having magic find% equipped? when a item get selected to drop before it decides quality like x monster is dead now its more likely to pick "charm" category due to magic find % or would you get same amount of charms jewels not taking their quality into account only quantity?
just checked drop calculator and it does not help with frequency of dropped charms or jewels as magic find % does not increase the odds of dropping.
the game rolls to find out what base item drops first. that might be a short sword, a charm, a breast plate, a rune. anything like that. MF doesn't matter for that. After this, *if* the item can be unique/set/rare/magic, the game rolls in that order to see if the item will be. MF *does* matter here. so jewels, rings, and amulets can be unique/rare/magic, and MF helps. the only charm that isn't magic is Gheed's, so MF helps finding Gheeds.
but you'll find the same number of jewels, etc, regardless of your MF. just like you'll find the same number of breast plates, regardless of how often you find a set/unique breast plate.
Right. If they’re always magical or greater in quality it doesn’t help
Will increase chances of rings/amulets/jewels being rare or unique, but won’t give you more of them like you said.
1:30 graph. Oh this brings back some memories.
YAY! The butt flower is back!! Thx, MrLlama! I do find myself wondering what the "optimal" mf might be...? I was thinking anywhere from 270-330(ish)? Looks like you get about 2/3 the max effective mf value for uniques.
anywhere between 200 and 400 where you have comfortable clear speed and survival. If you can go even higher, then do it, but it's not likely people are going above 400 and having that great clear speed.
So the optimal mf is quite literally the highest you can get the number to be and still do the content you want to do.
i found my sweet Spot with 370% mf while having a good killspeed.. i do this with the frozen orb / firewall build.. occu with ist Rune, shako with perf topas, tal rasha armor with 5% cold dmg jewel and Belt, war traveler boots.
Feels like I've seen couple versions of this video from Llama already :D
Yeah he's briefly mentioned this in a few videos already
Literally just got a 120/120 Shako when Llama said the word "Shako"
Here I was wondering what the title was about, I think so too in general magic find is amazing
what this tells me is to hit 200%mf on gear/charms and then build for dps
Generally 200-400 is the sweet spot.
I've made things on sp to drastically boost mf... not really worth the time. Even with good kill speed, 1000+ mf has VERY diminishing returns.
Nope. Not at all what this should tell you. 200% MF is a very good starting point. But with a Blizzard Sorc you will probably end up with between 400 and 600 MF. Depending on the amount of MF charms you get, maybe even 700-ish
Did you not listen to what Llama said in the first few minutes? You can never have too much MF. Yes, survivability and clear speed are important, but those will basically come with the MF gear or just the general gear you farm.
Like, seriously, the graph Llama shows has been known for years and years and years and people run around with WAY more than 200 MF. Didn't you stop to think why that is the case, before coming to your conclusion?
@@ThorsShadow the case is stupidity. Same reason people keep eating the things which lowered human immune systems to even allow a pandemic in the first place.
It is also why some people were rich and others spend weeks on end running high mf baal runs for miserable drops.
Meanwhile people who focused on clear speed in things like ancient tunnels and just teleporting faster racked in all the drops. They also rushed characters to hell for the rune drop quest in act 4 and ran that over and over and over and over again. That was the actual fastest way to get rich in diablo2. High runes were so rare that you could trade them for any item you wanted. Even other rune words :P. Meanwhile people were doing 800 mf mephisto runs all day lollll . they best they got was a high lords or a soj lmfao.
High mf and mephisto runs made sense in early versions. People didn't understand how much the patches changed. People also would not pick up rares - even though rares had the potential to be better than EVERY unique in the game. And rares is what the high mf chance increases. So ... lol.
Thanks for the Manager Workshop !
The best way to magic find is to play the game instead of just watch videos about the game :D
Especially if you're new to the game and going in blind? True. Fantastic advise.
Watched 1 min and Question is answered. Perfect 🥰
175 MF sounds like the best balance to me, Doubles the Unique rolls and gives you plenty room to get good gear to kill faster.
There is one thing imo - 1000 MF < full team crew - you want find more hr's , uniqs and end game rares ? Find teammates - its so esy
I've never had like a really really good assassin in D2c, so I'm building some kick-ass character in D2R. Wow that almost came out like a pun.
I'm a meteorb sorc with max resist, 105% FCR, 400MF and happy with andy drops!
Listening to the Shako analogy only hurts more because I've had a white and a blue Shako drop for me with less than 50 MF 😭
I have 300-400mf and it’s the same colour. Anything but golden
A simple rule is that if you struggle to kill mobs since you gimped yourself maxing out your magic find then you do have to much. Find a balance that work for you.
Got home from work, ready to try out what I learned in this video, just to find that my Lvl 6x+ MF Blizz Sorc got rolled back to lvl 10.
FML.
Best intake from this vid : Very high MF is banger to farm charms since it's almost all blue AND valuable resource
Thank you for clearing this up for me. I think about it often wondering if I'm going to mess up the RNG and natural roll of unique item drops and runes.
MF does not amplifie the HR rune drop or any rune drop for that matter.
The item drop is so frustrating. I'm lvl 80 and I'm still using lvl 10 rings. I don't feel the motivation to grind more.
@ISPY4ever If 7% some lightning res and 20% some MF is a good ring, yeah, I'm wearing two of those good stuff. 😕
Come on, they're garbage. But they're the best rings I've got after playing for a month.
it is a simple algorithm, when i do random generation in python i can put increased chance to get specific number(i can put borders on initial pool of numbers range). Same is here, when you get MF your algorithm value is increased. If you want more fancy stuff they can do linear regression and get specific for your class items like in diablo 3. Its not a big deal or rocket science.. get MF and you will get increased value of specific range in rng algorithm. Example random.randrange(1, 50) i can change value in that range with your MF %... so basically i can narrow the pool of items you can get. Rng is not true rng. :)
The level of sophistication within the D2 items system is actually insane. Same with like stats and their breakpoints.
200-250 on dps on standard and 300-350 for weapon swap for the last killing blow is what I run.
whats your setup for that..?
What makes diablo so good... is the fact finding good shit is a fuckin GRIND. it feels so rewarding when you finally find what you're looking for.
9:53 First the Bass drops. Groovy ~
I usually just go for the War trav + gheed + shako + fcr MF ring if possible. All you really need and you do not sacrifice kill speed.
I’m learning a lot with this channel. Thanks!
Please do a video outlining how pathetic these server issues are, after being down at least three days in a row.
5 days in a row now
So 200-400% magic find optimal for unique, 400-550% for rares, and 1000% for standard.
No