If you reconsidered disallowing external links in comments, I would then be able to point you to three highly interesting webpages that give you further information on the origin of the piano and the changes that were introduced by Theodore Steinway in 1884. I have images and a video of an 1882 Steinway similar to yours and I have links to an article by Theodore Steinway himself (in German) where he goes into detail into the design and scaling of the Steinway grands around 1885. Feel free to visit my youtube channel and browse the videos. There you can find at least four different Steinways from the 1880s, one of which is exactly the same as yours in build i.e. different scaling and no treble bell.
1883? Then it's not a real Steinway B. Take out your metric measuring tape and you'll see that this piano is 208cm instead of 211cm. Theodore Steinway redesigned the scaling of the the so called parlor grands in 1884 and it made a drastic difference in the overall sound of the piano. Any Steinway grand after 1884 basically is the same as a modern one - with the notable exception of the D between 1884 and 1892. Anything before 1884 is not what we consider a modern Steinway. The notable exception of the D is that it went through an experimental phase until it reached its final design as we still see it today. Before 1892 it had three capo bar sections and bridge pins set ant an angle, which gave it a unique sound that 'regular' Ds after 1892 don't have anymore. You really should read up more on the history of Steinways before calling an 1883 Steinway a model B. Does it have a 'B' as part of the delta in the iron cast frame? No, it doesn't and it's serial number is probable somewhere in the 40k region - not that one would actually know, because of re-painting the frame. Please don't call it a restoration. It's got plastic key covers and nickel alloy pins. And I seriously doubt you restored the action. It's probably got all new Renner hammer, back checks and wippens, without regard to the original action geometry and hammer weight. And please don't call it a 'B'. It's not. This particular model does not have the same scaling as a real B manufactured after 1884/5. It's easy to see that the grouping of the front duplex scales in your piano is 3-4-5-5 and 5-6-6 in the two capo fields. My 1886 B, however, has 6-5-3-3 and 4-4-3-3-3 respectively. You can read all about it in the Kehl/Kirkland reference book. Next thing: Look under the piano and you will not find a treble bell. Easy to spot on the plate, because it lacks the distinct screw nut below the first plate web cooling hole. forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2866508/1882-steinway-b-in-mint-condition-rare.html This is where you can find a similar model from 1882 that I found in Austria. Absolutely untouched, in pristine condition. There are more HiRes images in this posting in a German piano forum: www.clavio.de/threads/verkauf-steinway-b-fluegel-von-1882-in-originalzustand.26260/ but you need to register to actually view them. There also good images of the original action, which saw no changes between this previous model and the post 1885 one. This piano also still has the original ivory key tops. If you want more details then here is a two part article in German with Theodore Steinway as author. This article is dated 1885 and shows that around this time he decided to re-design the scaling, as can be seen in the different duplex scales between your and my piano: daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/bsb00004232/image_268 daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/bsb00004232/image_321 And really, get out that measuring tape and you'll see that your piano is in fact 208cm (6'8''). Since you repainted the plate, the original serial number is gone, but you should be able to find it on the front side of the action keyframe. If that's missing, too, you can take a look at the left side of the plate by the bass bridge. It has a triangle that touches the rim and has the manufacturing date of the plate cast into the plate. HTH.
I understand the challenge of identifying the piano model solely through remote viewing of the video, and perhaps there was a misinterpretation of the catalog information, leading to uncertainty about the piano's size initially. The piano in question measures 6'11" inches (211 cm), which aligns with the dimensions of a Steinway "B" model. Notably, it shares the same scale in the base and tenor sections and has duplex scale bars in the treble section, and it has 85 keys instead of the standard 88. It's worth clarifying that this antique 85-key Steinway B boasts a modern scale, as you correctly noted; thus, this aspect was never in doubt. You had mentioned that this piano has plastic key covers. My question to you. If you restore a piano, do you place elephant ivories on the keytops? Regarding Renner parts you are wrong, I did not place Renner parts on this piano. But I’d like to ask you if you have any issues with using Renner hammers, back check and wippens when restoring a piano? Would like to hear your opinion. Thank you.
@@PIANOSXXI Let me answer your other questions: My own 1886 B is a hack job of at least three completely ignorant "rebuilders" who basically destroyed the original substance of the piano. The first one replace the original flute legs with really ugly, massive square legs and replaced the lyre with a really weird construction that's just as ugly as the original one without adding any improvement in whatever way. The second "rebuilder" shimmed cracks in the soundboard, but failed to properly dry it, which resulted in a gap between the soundboard and the ribs. His solution: Simply put screws in and fix the soundboard to the ribs this way. Ouch. He also ripped the ivory tops off and replaced them with plastic key tops. The third "rebuilder" put in a full new set of Renner hammers, including new shanks and knuckles. And doing so while keeping the original wippens, back checks and capstans. Obvious ignorance that led to making the action basically impossible to regulate. The new hammer tails did not fit the back checks, so he tried to file off some material off the hammer tails. Which did not work. He then tried to screw in the capstans as far as possible - and a little further after that, actually harming the keys themselves. Anyways the piano in this state was basically unplayable, because the hammers were far heavier than the original ones, which translated to a maximum down weight of 66g in the bass section. Plus, the mismatch between hammer tails and back checks led to the hammer still being slightly braked by the back checks after attack. Basically, all energy from touching a key was smoothly transferred to the back checks instead of accelerating the hammers. Oh well. I finally had someone repair the action repair by putting in new capstan, wippens and back checks, as well as reducing the hammer weight by carving off wood and felt from the hammer cheeks. Now the action is wonderful, but it's not an 1886 action anymore. And when it comes to real restorations, then this is the blueprint: th-cam.com/video/6J4K-t9vCD8/w-d-xo.html 1887 Steinway D, all original, except for new strings, a carefully dried and shimmed soundboard and renewed red original Steinway felt. That's it. Fully original action, even with the original set of hammers in wonderful condition, original and carefully polished shellac surface, one-piece ivory key tops (conforming to CITES regulations), original soundboard and bridges. In two weeks it will be thoroughly regulated and voiced by my favorite concert technician and by then I have a totally unique piano, because as far as I know there isn't a second piano of this build in its original conditions. Pianists are already lining up to use this piano for concerts and recordings.
@@PIANOSXXI I have no idea why it is as it is, but I am unable to set the record straight by showing details on your piano that are visible to anyone if you know what to look for. I am trying again: This particular model does not have the same scaling as a real B manufactured after 1884/5. It's easy to see that the grouping of the front duplex scales in your piano is 3-4-5-5 and 5-6-6 in the two capo fields. My 1886 B, however, has 6-5-3-3 and 4-4-3-3-3 respectively. You can read all about it in the Kehl/Kirkland reference book. Next thing: Look under the piano and you will not find a treble bell. Easy to spot on the plate, because it lacks the distinct screw nut below the first plate web cooling hole. And really, get out that measuring tape and you'll see that your piano is in fact 208cm (6'8''). Since you repainted the plate, the original serial number is gone, but you should be able to find it on the front side of the action keyframe. If that's missing, too, you can take a look at the left side of the plate by the bass bridge. It has a triangle that touches the rim and has the manufacturing date of the plate cast into the plate.
@@OE1FEU Dear Peter. Thank you so much for conducting a research and really trying to figure this mystery. Just to confirm, this piano has a cast iron sound bell in a treble section that is connected to the cast iron plate. After measuring the piano once again, it came up slightly bigger than 6'11" to be exact. From my experience, I can say that I have seen slight variations in the Steinway grand piano sizes so I am not surprised because Steinways are handmade instruments, so its possible that there might be an inch or so slight variation in length or width.
If you reconsidered disallowing external links in comments, I would then be able to point you to three highly interesting webpages that give you further information on the origin of the piano and the changes that were introduced by Theodore Steinway in 1884.
I have images and a video of an 1882 Steinway similar to yours and I have links to an article by Theodore Steinway himself (in German) where he goes into detail into the design and scaling of the Steinway grands around 1885.
Feel free to visit my youtube channel and browse the videos. There you can find at least four different Steinways from the 1880s, one of which is exactly the same as yours in build i.e. different scaling and no treble bell.
1883?
Then it's not a real Steinway B. Take out your metric measuring tape and you'll see that this piano is 208cm instead of 211cm. Theodore Steinway redesigned the scaling of the the so called parlor grands in 1884 and it made a drastic difference in the overall sound of the piano. Any Steinway grand after 1884 basically is the same as a modern one - with the notable exception of the D between 1884 and 1892. Anything before 1884 is not what we consider a modern Steinway.
The notable exception of the D is that it went through an experimental phase until it reached its final design as we still see it today. Before 1892 it had three capo bar sections and bridge pins set ant an angle, which gave it a unique sound that 'regular' Ds after 1892 don't have anymore.
You really should read up more on the history of Steinways before calling an 1883 Steinway a model B. Does it have a 'B' as part of the delta in the iron cast frame? No, it doesn't and it's serial number is probable somewhere in the 40k region - not that one would actually know, because of re-painting the frame.
Please don't call it a restoration. It's got plastic key covers and nickel alloy pins. And I seriously doubt you restored the action. It's probably got all new Renner hammer, back checks and wippens, without regard to the original action geometry and hammer weight.
And please don't call it a 'B'. It's not.
This particular model does not have the same scaling as a real B manufactured after 1884/5. It's easy to see that the grouping of the front duplex scales in your piano is 3-4-5-5 and 5-6-6 in the two capo fields. My 1886 B, however, has 6-5-3-3 and 4-4-3-3-3 respectively. You can read all about it in the Kehl/Kirkland reference book.
Next thing: Look under the piano and you will not find a treble bell. Easy to spot on the plate, because it lacks the distinct screw nut below the first plate web cooling hole.
forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2866508/1882-steinway-b-in-mint-condition-rare.html
This is where you can find a similar model from 1882 that I found in Austria. Absolutely untouched, in pristine condition. There are more HiRes images in this posting in a German piano forum: www.clavio.de/threads/verkauf-steinway-b-fluegel-von-1882-in-originalzustand.26260/ but you need to register to actually view them. There also good images of the original action, which saw no changes between this previous model and the post 1885 one. This piano also still has the original ivory key tops.
If you want more details then here is a two part article in German with Theodore Steinway as author. This article is dated 1885 and shows that around this time he decided to re-design the scaling, as can be seen in the different duplex scales between your and my piano:
daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/bsb00004232/image_268
daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/bsb00004232/image_321
And really, get out that measuring tape and you'll see that your piano is in fact 208cm (6'8''). Since you repainted the plate, the original serial number is gone, but you should be able to find it on the front side of the action keyframe. If that's missing, too, you can take a look at the left side of the plate by the bass bridge. It has a triangle that touches the rim and has the manufacturing date of the plate cast into the plate.
HTH.
I understand the challenge of identifying the piano model solely through remote viewing of the video, and perhaps there was a misinterpretation of the catalog information, leading to uncertainty about the piano's size initially.
The piano in question measures 6'11" inches (211 cm), which aligns with the dimensions of a Steinway "B" model. Notably, it shares the same scale in the base and tenor sections and has duplex scale bars in the treble section, and it has 85 keys instead of the standard 88. It's worth clarifying that this antique 85-key Steinway B boasts a modern scale, as you correctly noted; thus, this aspect was never in doubt.
You had mentioned that this piano has plastic key covers. My question to you. If you restore a piano, do you place elephant ivories on the keytops?
Regarding Renner parts you are wrong, I did not place Renner parts on this piano. But I’d like to ask you if you have any issues with using Renner hammers, back check and wippens when restoring a piano? Would like to hear your opinion.
Thank you.
@@PIANOSXXI Let me answer your other questions: My own 1886 B is a hack job of at least three completely ignorant "rebuilders" who basically destroyed the original substance of the piano. The first one replace the original flute legs with really ugly, massive square legs and replaced the lyre with a really weird construction that's just as ugly as the original one without adding any improvement in whatever way.
The second "rebuilder" shimmed cracks in the soundboard, but failed to properly dry it, which resulted in a gap between the soundboard and the ribs. His solution: Simply put screws in and fix the soundboard to the ribs this way. Ouch. He also ripped the ivory tops off and replaced them with plastic key tops.
The third "rebuilder" put in a full new set of Renner hammers, including new shanks and knuckles. And doing so while keeping the original wippens, back checks and capstans. Obvious ignorance that led to making the action basically impossible to regulate. The new hammer tails did not fit the back checks, so he tried to file off some material off the hammer tails. Which did not work. He then tried to screw in the capstans as far as possible - and a little further after that, actually harming the keys themselves. Anyways the piano in this state was basically unplayable, because the hammers were far heavier than the original ones, which translated to a maximum down weight of 66g in the bass section. Plus, the mismatch between hammer tails and back checks led to the hammer still being slightly braked by the back checks after attack. Basically, all energy from touching a key was smoothly transferred to the back checks instead of accelerating the hammers.
Oh well. I finally had someone repair the action repair by putting in new capstan, wippens and back checks, as well as reducing the hammer weight by carving off wood and felt from the hammer cheeks. Now the action is wonderful, but it's not an 1886 action anymore.
And when it comes to real restorations, then this is the blueprint:
th-cam.com/video/6J4K-t9vCD8/w-d-xo.html
1887 Steinway D, all original, except for new strings, a carefully dried and shimmed soundboard and renewed red original Steinway felt. That's it. Fully original action, even with the original set of hammers in wonderful condition, original and carefully polished shellac surface, one-piece ivory key tops (conforming to CITES regulations), original soundboard and bridges. In two weeks it will be thoroughly regulated and voiced by my favorite concert technician and by then I have a totally unique piano, because as far as I know there isn't a second piano of this build in its original conditions. Pianists are already lining up to use this piano for concerts and recordings.
@@PIANOSXXI I have no idea why it is as it is, but I am unable to set the record straight by showing details on your piano that are visible to anyone if you know what to look for. I am trying again:
This particular model does not have the same scaling as a real B manufactured after 1884/5. It's easy to see that the grouping of the front duplex scales in your piano is 3-4-5-5 and 5-6-6 in the two capo fields. My 1886 B, however, has 6-5-3-3 and 4-4-3-3-3 respectively. You can read all about it in the Kehl/Kirkland reference book.
Next thing: Look under the piano and you will not find a treble bell. Easy to spot on the plate, because it lacks the distinct screw nut below the first plate web cooling hole.
And really, get out that measuring tape and you'll see that your piano is in fact 208cm (6'8''). Since you repainted the plate, the original serial number is gone, but you should be able to find it on the front side of the action keyframe. If that's missing, too, you can take a look at the left side of the plate by the bass bridge. It has a triangle that touches the rim and has the manufacturing date of the plate cast into the plate.
@@OE1FEU Dear Peter. Thank you so much for conducting a research and really trying to figure this mystery. Just to confirm, this piano has a cast iron sound bell in a treble section that is connected to the cast iron plate. After measuring the piano once again, it came up slightly bigger than 6'11" to be exact. From my experience, I can say that I have seen slight variations in the Steinway grand piano sizes so I am not surprised because Steinways are handmade instruments, so its possible that there might be an inch or so slight variation in length or width.