Adding (Or Removing) a Dash Button Will DRASTICALLY Alter The Balance of a Game
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- Every day I wake up happy to not live in a world where Zappa has a dash macro
streamed May 10, 2022
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The thought of Slayer with a dash macro but keeping 19f of dash invuln is straight up giving me nightmares.
As a Slayer player these are good dreams for me. At least until I remember Zappa's 11f backdash with 10f invuln.
He needs it
They should really remove such abusables.
Sin's XRD backdash...
As someone who got tendinitis on my right hand from plink dashing in marvel 3, games adding any mobility options that don't smoke ppl's hands is always welcome in my book.
tendonitis gang, hope youre feeling better
@@ZeludeRose It's gotten much better and thankfully my current choice of fighting game (DBFZ) is pretty easy on the hands.
A dash macro is always helpful
I'm happy you never played Tekken.
MvC has backdash canceling like Tekken.
As a Tekken player I love it, if you don't have tendonitis you ain't playing fightan games
@@Guitar-Dog Yeah I would imagine korean backdash is just as bad for the left hand as plink dashing is for the right hand.
Button Dash in strive is such a small thing, but it helps so much in the consistency, in other games you just have to focus sometimes in making sure you get the iad, but in strive it is second nature, you can just focus on your gameplan and that is it, but yeah, for charge characters it is way more helpful ;D
As long as the game was designed with it in mind, I am fine.
It completely changes how Charge-based characters can operate, that's a fact
Learning dash cancel combos in MKX was one of the most satisfying experiences for me.
The extra bit of focus needed to play older games is exactly whats missing from newer fighting games and is at the heart of what fgc boomers complain about. A little consistency here, a few streamlined options there and poof half the intensity of a final round last hit scenario is gone.
@@Mac_McBride it's like your actually focusing on fighting your opponent more than the game itself, crazy.
I’d rather have a dash macro then a block button
"The best defense is some damn good schmovement"
-Sun Tzu, I think
I mean yea but I’d also rather have the flu over stage 4 lymphoma
@@minimonkeymasher8888 “just don’t get hit” -Obama
The dash button is Strive is the thing that made me stick to the game, I'm terrible at dashing with double forward inputs
Me
I literally hate dashing normally so much it turns me off of other games
same.
I used to feel this way, idk I just got used to it after a while. Double tap inputs still suck ass imo but it isnt a big deal once you play for a while
I have mild cerebral palsy personally and I flat out can't play games without dash buttons, and for those who don't know what cerebral palsy is, basically my brain is broke and it causes my fine motor skills to be severely impaired, I had to train to have the motion in my hand to use a knife and fork as a kid, and I need constant fine use of fine motor skills with hands or they atrophy.
I love fighting games, especially Guilty Gear, but Strive has been the first game where I can go and actually take my gameplay to the next level thanks to the Dash Macro, double tap in one direction motions are ridiculously slow for me, or my hand locks up and is unable to do it, there is no training away my brain damage.
And when it comes to retroactively adding Dash Macros, I feel there is a way to do it, and that is to add a delay in older games, similar in time of someone who has practiced doing a dash.
This is a good argument for accessibility
You can also retool a FG *entirely* by just having "run" be the default forward, and a short dash/step be for "tap forward"
What people expect: nicer fingers, more consistent execution
What people will get: MegaMan X4 Dash-Cancel-Slashing contests
The middle ground that works well: KOF Quick Max Mode
Those existed in X4?
Why is it that with every sajam video the default "boomer" example is Majin obama lmao
Hes the first result when you google fgc boomer
Everyone is missing the part where Krackatoa said that the game should be rebalanced to account for a theoretical dash macro. He didn’t say to just drop one in as is without making changes.
The outrage over this has been really stupid.
Twitter in a nutshell
Hello, welcome to Post-Social Media Internet. Glad you finally caught up.
Just change how the game works is not a good answer for implementing a quality of life option. If you read that thread he kind of makes a fool out of himself imo, whereas Mal is like "hey no matter if you do x or y you're gonna change the game a lot and that's not what we want" whereas Krackatoa is just like "who cares lol just change it".
But what if I want strong backdashes? Duh
@@sevennights6377 who cares lol just change it
Completely fair to say old games shouldn't get it/should have more thought if they add it. I've been a big fan though; I have anxiety disorder real bad, which means my hands and fingers are always twitching even when I'm not actively feeling nervous. This means that even in casual online matches, sometimes I'll get so nervous that I can't flick a stick forward twice consistently. That's why I've always preferred heavy characters in older games. In another game, I would never have tried even a basic pressure character like Giovanna because I just can't do dashes right 100% of the time, so it's been a lot of fun with Strive and other games because I finally get to enjoy different kinds of characters with a little more ease.
Anxiety gang.
When I picked up BlazBlue after playing STRIVE for a few months, I thought to myself "man, I wish this game had a dash button too".
...then I found out how Naoto works, and realized that he would become an unstoppable menace if that was ever implemented.
that's why i want a dash macro in BB 😎
naoto wouldn't even become that broken with a dash macro, since basically all of his dash cancel stuff in combos is doing stuff into sway xx dash, which has a pretty lenient buffer, at least by blazblue standards. The hard shit in that game is microdashes, which virtually the entire cast has to use if you want their optimal combos (and for some characters, even just their regular bnbs)
@@bobertbojo2 Naoto players would be able to mash dash macro + DP in blockstrings pretty easily, EnDP gives a full combo. This would completly break any kind of pressure and skew risk/reward towards Naoto heavily.
@@gigaturok No it wouldn't. That's not how Naoto works at all.
Naoto would just convert any button into 236C loops lol
This feels like a microcosm of the hitbox debate. An control option that the game wasn't originally designed for causing interactions in the game that radically change the game's balance.
For instsnce, I still remember how in HD Remix charge characters had the ability to walk forward while keeping charge due to how the game handled simultaneous opposing directions.
It's no coincidence that I like dash macros and I've also been playing on hitbox for 12 years.
@@Krackatoa LMAO
...i dunno, is it?
one is a different input tool some players choose, the second is a *new* system mechanic
doesn't the system change alter a much more sensitive (❕) element of the meta?
@@Krackatoa king shit
I don't remember that specifically but I do know that in Super Turbo characters with charging super moves, like E. Honda, can input the super and then hold forward and press the P/K whenever to get the super. Don't remember why it worked but it's just another weird quirk of ST.
I've tried to do Fillia combos in Skullgirls with both the 2 button dash and using the control stick and I can never do it consistently when using the stick. It just feels strange to do for me in the same way charge characters feel weird to play when you're used to standard motion inputs.
Yeah I get that. I think it's something you can get used to, Balrog in Street Fighter helped me with charge inputs because he still plays like a dumbass unga rushdown guy, so after spending a while with him I don't find them too tricky in general. It's like you just need a good context to get used to this stuff in I feel.
I like the Dash button but yeah you can't just put it in games that weren't designed with it from the beginning. +R would have so many more Slayer players if any new Strive player could pick him up and start schmoovin' with full invincibilty.
I actually tried picking up +r slayer yesterday and learning hit box and back dash cancelling broke my hands.
It would also push him well over the top, the existing top tier primarily hold their grip on that status by virtue of their most powerful tools being relatively accessible. Testament doesn't need a lab monster of a pilot to hang back, set traps and confirm whether they need to hit 2S or 2H to counter the opponent's approach. Slayer on the other hand is intentionally kept in check by having his most game-breaking technique locked behind a high execution barrier. If someone like me could pick that shit up in 30 minutes, there'd be no point because the quick match queue would just be full of others doing the exact same thing. It'd still seem appealing at first since it'd at least be a change of pace, but I also bet it'd get boring as fuck to play both with and against real fast.
tl;dr +R is beautiful because the advanced execution techniques within are the only things preventing it from becoming a solved game. Take those out and it'd end up like so many sticks of chewing gum, doomed to lose their flavor and be discarded once there's nothing left to enjoy.
@@HS_Gomikubi I don't think 'High execution barriers is the reason the game is good' is a fair point in this case.
It ignores the fact that the opponent has easier execution too. As far as difficulty all it would do is raise the ceiling on humanly possible combos and lower the floor on execution barrier.
The real problem is that it would make certain characters extremely easy to learn compared to the rest of the cast. The ease of entry for new players would skew character choice significantly.
It also changes how some moves work so certain characters have whole *ss combos that they can just DO now.
I didn't say the execution barrier was the reason the game is _good,_ I said that's something that helps keep it from approaching the point of being solved. Can a solved game still be good? Sure, Super Turbo has the occasional tourney stream and a fightcade scene just like anything else even after all these years. But you know what it doesn't have anymore? Innovators, people coming up with new ways to approach decades-old problems for which the existing answers cannot be argued against.
That said, while I'll admit calling execution the _only_ reason might be a bit much I'd still rather +R not be in such a rush to follow the footsteps of it's foremost predecessor. Dash macro might not singlehandedly push it over that edge, but it's indicative of a slippery slope just the same.
They should remove that abusable.
Last year when I was a betatester of hyper dbz the devs started playing around with dash macros (the input is any 2 punches).
the thing is that on the first iteration the macro was only for forward dashes;
so with charge characters you could be charging back while also dashing towards the opponent,
It was so broken and also opened new combos.
After a few good iterations in the beta updates the input changed,now to get a forward dash you have to be doing any neutral or forward direction + the two punches, otherwise you get a backdash.
@Sajam I think there's another important element to this, and that's being able to dash with your right hand, freeing up your left hand to buffer directions.
good catch!
I legitimately would not have got into guilty gear/fighting games in general if it wasn't for the dash macro imo. It's pretty amazing how much more fun the game was too me. Double tapping forward and IAD's became so tedious and just uncomfortable.
If anyone brings up the dash macro balancing argument just mention Slayer and you instantly win
All it would do for Slayer would make his defense more consistent. It's not like he's balanced for people not to be able to play him consistently; his pseudo-link timings are much more of an execution barrier for non-masters.
I think another thing is that when you dash macro, you can have the stick in neutral, so all the other movement options/blocking are equally available, while w/o, since your stick is being held forward, doing something like dashing into back jumping or crouch blocking is slower and more deliberate than a forward jump
As a keyboard player, double tapping feels fine, but since strive was my first game and I tried xrd I really did feel like I took the dash macro for granted
Where do you keep your dash macro on kb? I have it on shift for me, and space bar is my RC button
@@marvinzimmerman1878 shift for dash, spacebar for rc. So exactly like you
@@7associationfaust woah that's sick! Who do you main?
@@marvinzimmerman1878 Faust
"Imagine fighting Happy Chaos without a dash macro"
Me, having played Strive without ever using dash macro: Yeah, imagine x.x
me, a nago main:
Frfr
4:02 Nagoriyuki and Potemkin players: "Yes"
This argument is actually pretty easy to talk about. Hitbox / Mechanical keyboard users have a advantage on the dash, they can just touch the direction they want to move then slightly tap the opposite direction, there, you get a dash. It's nearly as easy as a dash macro.
So, if hitbox / keyboard users have it, why arcade stick / joystick users shouldn't get a dash macro button?
Even if your game has strong dashes a % of your playerbase is already able to use them at 100%, no reason to block the entry to other type of controllers.
People: "Why is dash macro such a big deal"
Naoto players: "THIS SHACKLE......LET ME OUT OF HERE"
I've been playing Strive and a little bit of rev2 and as much as I love playing Baiken in rev2, I honestly feel that the lack of a dash macro makes me want to play less and less everytime I open the game.
I'm not in this camp, but I here this so much. I'm not surprised tbh, it's pretty nice to have.
I think for airdash confirms we wouldn't even need a dash macro. Games like bbcf have generous buffer on IAD from jump cancellable buttons and it feels great and would go a long way to making combos that use that stuff in xrd and +r a lot nicer
The more responsibility you move from the already comically overloaded stick, the better. Retroactively adding it is a no go but I seriously hope all future fighters just have a dash macro.
Why do righthanded players even use the stick with their left hand lmao
@@hirotrum6810 It's like how guitar players strum with their left. I did try movement with my right the other day on keyboard and it was a big no-go. Way too hard coded
@@octozed What? I'm right-handed and I strummed with my right when I played GH. If you're left handed you strum with your left, that's why lefty mode has the green button on the right.
I played baiken back in rev 2 and could NEVER get the iad into tatami, which is such an essential part of her gameplan. Same issue in strive until I caved and decided to macro a dash button. The difference in consistency is literally night and day.
You couldnt get iad mat in xrd but still felt too prideful to use a dash macro in strive?
iad tatami or kire tatami? These two are different things
@@Magibatproductions it wasn't a pride thing as much as the thought just didn't cross my mind with xrd lol (my first fg). Then with strive I just assumed it'd be easier to stick to double tap forward 😅
@@Stock090 iad tatami. I uh... did not know the difference until searching kire tatami lol. But ty for pointing that out!
2:18 Venom over here with the Tekken KBD
this takes me back to fanatiq and mvc2. people used to clown him so bad for his one button dash.
as a millia player adding fd macro would drastically make me live longer
Having no FD macro in Strive really doesn't make sense because it's already in AC+R and Rev 2.
I read the title and thought, "Yeah right.", then he showed that Venom clip. Damn.
TLDR: I like my wrists how I like my games, not broken.
Was telling a friend the other day that granblue had lacking defensive options. Next day, everyone gets burst, an invul backwash frame 1 on wakeup, and a strike invincible "rage art" kind of mechanic and it flips a lot on its head and made the game fresh. 3 small universal mechanics and it's wildly different now because of the defensive overdrives and offensively allows early ultimates.
I know for me I have a tough time nailing the microdashes that Ram uses as a part of many of her combos in Xrd, so a dash marco would help a TON with those combos. But that amazing pressure and those combos are designed around having the execution barrier in there as well. I would certainly welcome the change so I could do some sick combos and routes, but there would be other things that need to be balanced.
I hate repeated direction inputs in any game. Even 22X for DP gives me trouble sometimes. It feels really awkward
SFV constant universal 5F input buffer had the biggest effect out of any mechanic or change I've ever seen in a FG both gameplay and design wise. I really hope they remove it in SF6 because imo it really hampers your design of what's possible to have in your game. This convo just reminded me of that. SF already did something like this just to a MUCH bigger degree in SFV.
every modern fighting game has an input buffer these days, expecting SF6 to play like SF4 with zero buffer on normals is silly
@@whatthefluck13 Never said that. Just not with constant universal 5F. It's fine to use buffer for certain things, even SF4 had a super lenient 8f buffer for reversals, more than V. But I don't want constant 5F buffer that affects every single aspect of gameplay. No other FG does that to that extent.
@@whatthefluck13 SF4 is hot garbage so if SF6 was like that at all that's a no buy baby
in sg the dash macro is two punch buttons at the same time, which is the same input for pushblock which is a really important defense mechanic. You cant change them, the idea being that players should be allowed to bait your pushblock and punish your backdash. just think thats kinda cool
I have a really hard time with double tapping in a direction for some reason. I feel like its a mechanical hinderance for some people for no real reason. I hate doing double tap dashes on stick or pad. something about it makes my hands seize up, or just do too many taps.
That Venom clip alone makes me realize how challenging it would be to balance him as a character in Strive especially his zoning abilities if he has a dash-macro
What I really don't get is someone getting mad that someone said that they'd like a dash macro in a supposed rev 3 - because you'd have to rebalance the game or fuck with how the macro works
THAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF MAKING A REV 3, YEAH? TO CHANGE THE GAME?
if you add a dash button to rev3, there's no reason it has to be 1:1 with manual dash? like, what if button backdash just had worse or no invul frames vs manual backdash?
you could also have dash macro automatically drop any charge you're holding to prevent running flash kicks.
like its not purely a plug-n-play solution, but like. arcsys specifically pays people to figure this kinda stuff out???
everybody talkin about dash macros but wheres the FD macro arcsys
Literally just push two buttons. Not hard.
@@mallow2902 Just push 2 buttons, then the game just compute one button and you get countered
@@JaquetaoSlayer improve your consistency yourself, don't ask the game to do the work for you.
@@mallow2902 yes i will try to improve my consistency, it will solve the problem caused by UE4 input lag.
@@JaquetaoSlayer The input lag doesn't impact your ability to press two buttons at the same time. And there's 2-3f leniency for pressing both buttons together for FD. It's not hard.
There is this weird thing in the FGC where people get super madge over things that make the game more accessible, such as a dash macro, it's not black and white. You can't just go back and add dash macros to old games, but a dash macro in strive makes the game way easier for people with wrist problems to do a basic and needed mechanic
It's fine that it's in Strive, it's fine that it's in Marvel, and it's fine that other games don't have it, but not every single game, even ones going forward, needs it. It's not wrong for a game to require mastery of difficult techniques.
@@mallow2902 This isn't an argument of difficulty, it's an argument of "people with medical issues shouldn't be restricted from playing a game they would otherwise enjoy because"
As I said, you can't just add it to old games, but new games should work to be accessible
@@scarletnoct5807 so new games have to pigeonhole themselves into design philosophy that always accommodates dash macros? I disagree. This is the problem with neutering execution requirements in fighting games as it limits how a game can be designed or balanced. The fact is that not every game is going to be for everyone, video games or otherwise.
@@mallow2902 It's not an argument of "neutering execution requirements" this isn't for people that won't play fighting games, this is for people who would like to but have medical issues that prevent them from doing so
@@scarletnoct5807 there are fighting games that are geared towards those players though, but I'd rather not see the entire genre take the simplification route, because I and many others enjoy the execution aspect of fighting games.
frankly i dont really like dash macros, but sajam even says it himself that doing dash type inputs is far easier on hitbox, it just closes the gap between controller types. indirectly i think this really showcases the fallacy of not having a set controller.
Leo despite being a charge character uses dash macro so often for not only extended range on his normals, but also special moves. Dash+fireball hits just a little bit closer to full screen,useful against maybe happy chaos. Dash+DP is the funniest round start option (even though its really hard to do) and etc.
Simply put, if they remove it, I can’t play millia anymore. I can dash normally(and airdash) just fine, it just feels gross.
Maybe if they added delay to the dash macro to emulate the minimum action required for the normal dash
venom has a korean backdash
being a gio player i didnt know about the macro until i played a high floor gio and saw them flying across the screen and shit doing things i thought were possible but i wasnt fast enough and from there on out i really fell in love with the game
I don't use the dash macro for actually dashing. But I do use it for backdashing throws and for drift rc. Specifically I would probably drop drift rc all the time without macro.
seems pretty cut-and-dry: if your game is designed with a dash macro in mind then it'll be fine. retroactively adding a dash macro to older games that dont have it will lead to some bullshit
i think the weirder aspect of this is the boomer logic that more complicated = better. majinobama's meme definitely implies that dashing with two directional inputs is the better route and isnt that big of a deal at all. but whether you have a dash macro or not doesnt make the people playing it less skilled, it just lets them change their attention from one thing to another
the analogy i like use comes from starcraft. in the original, if you wanted to build 1 marine from 8 barracks you had to select every barracks individually and hit the hotkey to queue up the marine. this made remaxing your army a very valuable skill, and a not-insignificant amount of time was spent mastering how to select a dozen buildings one-by-one after a big fight to hit your army cap faster than your opponent could
in starcraft 2, howoever, you could simply make a control group by selecting every barracks you had by pressing CTRL+1 one time so that when you wanted to build a shitload of marines you just had to hit 1 then A a bunch of times, with the game smartly queuing up marines in each barracks on its own. and since you didnt even have to move your screen to do this it let players focus more on fighting and tactics. so remaxing in each game looked like this:
sc1: move screen to your base where you've tightly clustered all your unit producing buildings, select each one individually, and hit the hotkey to queue up what you want, manually move the rally point for each building individually if you want them to run to a new place once their done
sc2: press 1, hit the hotkey to queue what you want as many times as you want, right-click anywhere you want and the new units will run to that new rally position. you could even have multiple unit producing buildings in the same group and simply press Tab to switch to them, hit the hotkey you want, and the game knows to queue them up with only those buildings
starcraft 1 is more mechanically demanding, stacraft 2 is more streamlined to let players focus on combat. neither one is better, they just emphasize different skills
Having good macro in BW is hard, having good macro in SC2 is easy in comparison. I don't think one is better either, but one does lend itself to a higher barrier between good and great players. some people prefer games with a wider skill range, the phrase "there's levels to this shit" comes to mind. You can be good at micro and army movement, but doing that while having good macro is a whole different thing in BW, again it separates the good from the great.
Also, it's not really boomer logic, it's just that the games that last a long time are the ones that are more complex, so they tend to have older players. That said there are definitely a lot of zoomers who say the same shit, who think that complex means better. I held that belief when I was young, but now I just don't care, complex or simple, as long as a thing is good, that is what matters.
After Strive, I want dash macro to be a default in fighthing games man
Laughs in Potemkin
All the airdashes that I played has a dash button, so it will be complicated for me to start over. XD
It might not be for every game, but after playing Strive I definitely hope more games start having a dash macro in the future. I really like it. Yeah they have to balance it, but it's still satisfying having more crisp control over your movement.
Yeah traditional dash inputs on fightstick makes my wrist hurt really fuckin bad now. Not a chance I’ll ever play pad, it feels so dogshit to me. strives dash macro has basically been the sole thing keeping me invested
Don’t forget Pot also has a 21 fr back dash with 20 frames invul for Xrd and +R
Imma be real i dont think any of this is an argument. Its design-wise just better to have consistency for a movement option, but even without one.. people learn how to use double tap dashes perfectly !9 matter how new they are to the game. The balancing is rly easy to fix for charas w strong backdashes, and dash cancel/install situations. For one leo got a dash flash kick cause of the macro that we discovered in the first beta but noone uses it lol. At the end of the day things ON paper can be theorised forever but things r always diff in practice. At most slayer and naoto types would just be a lower skill floor. Ram also has tight dash cancel stuff and top players barely need it other than doing twitter stuff. It’s not a big deal, its easily balanced, and its accessible/more accesible for players with less than able joints
I think something that doesn't get discussed with this topic is the buffer on dash inputs. In UNI, the buffer for the dash macro is significantly smaller than the one for double tap dashing, and in effect the macro might as well not be there. Contrast to Strive where double tap has no buffer at all, making the dash button basically required in that game in most situations.
interesting 😯
It's a matter of taste just like motion inputs. Whatever way you decide to make a game it's going to feel different and play different but neither option is objectively superior. The only objective advantage the dash macro has that I can see is it's not as hard on your hands. Then again who's at fault for your wrist injury - the game's input or you playing 6hrs straight without breaks?
Idk, i feel like dash macro is actually only really neccessary when you're a stick or pad player. When you're playing on kbd or hitbox it's way easier to dash, so yeah, dash macro isn't bad and i feel like adding it makes it fair for people that are not using kbd or hitbox and don't literally need to move one of their fingers twice in order to get dash.
The thing Im just puzzled on is that Strive has a RC and Burst macro with a dash macro. +R, Rev2 and BBCF all have RC and Burst equivalent macros ALONG with FD macros. Yea the macros were more free form in hitting specific buttons together but I hate that Strive has this godly dash macro and yet all the other games have a 2 button macro that activates FD as long as you're holding back too. I haven't actually used it in games but man Steam Big Picture mode can basically technically be cheating because you can make a FD macro that includes holding back as well.
Oh yeah steam big picture mode let's you set up crazy macros for basically any input right? I remember messing with it for gyroscopic aim in shooters.
@@octozed You can macro whatever. No sequential macros but I can put P+K+Back for a instant FD off a single button. In another game like Metal Gear Rising the dodge required you to use light attack and jump at the same time. Created a macro for that.
I actually use both playing Sol in Strive, I do 66 in neutral or after a knockdown just because of muscle memory from other games, but for stuff like microdashes and dash-cancels in combos I use the macro
Given strive was the first fighting game I seriously sank time into. Knowing stuff like Korean back dashing and wave dashing exist doesn't make me keen to play those games, as it always struck me as a hurdle I'd have to overcome on top of an entire new system. I hope I'm not the only one that feels that way
u ain't the only one.
many people find 'advanced-but-recommended' mechanics intimidating (i swear) 🤞
😌 i want to add that that they may not b as gamekeep-y as they seem (fighting games test much more than "can u input this single technique?"),
but the pressure *_is_* real.
naoto in bbcf would go up like 5 tiers
if strive didn't have a dash macro I would've never gotten into the game and likely just continued hating fighting games for the rest of my life. As much as it helps in the higher levels of play, I think the biggest boon from a dash macro is for ease of use for new players, especially if they're playing on pad - since most 2d games played on controller have run/dash tied to a button. This is especially important if you're like me and started off using the analog stick instead of the dpad, because double tapping forward on an analog stick is a practically unusable movement option. To this extent I feel like having a problem with a dash macro is like having a problem with adding a command list, all it'll do is drive away new players.
Based
you would of kept hating fighting games because you didnt want to tap ff? lol why are strivers so dramatic god damn
@@sourcesauce thats not what im sayin - im sayin the movement would've felt weird and i wouldn't gotten into the game because of that. I would've kept hating fighting games because i wouldn't have ever found one that i like.
I don't know where this idea of 'people want dash macros because they can't handle tapping 66' came from. It just makes the game playable on more control schemes.
In times where Hitbox is almost as common as arcade stick I feel like dash macros are just bridging the gap between controllers types. Sure in some games it can make a difference in playstyle but imo switching to hitbox could basically achieve the same thing as using a dash macro, some things might still not be as optimal as a dash macro but I think its close enough to equalize the difference.
Bruh... Dash Macro Slayer and I-No in GGAC+R would just kill me us all.
I never really got used to using the dash macro in strive even though it's super useful, since my stick just doesn't have enough buttons and I had to choose between dash macro or being able to use training mode properly.
Not gonna lie, I didn't know there was a dash macro until like Jacko came out. Strive was way different without it
I think dash button in xrd would be great
Even if there's potential interesting details in not having a dash macro I really don't think people should develop games without one anymore. Requiring double taps is an actual accessibility issue, as opposed to people being dumb about stuff like difficulty settings. Even for myself as somebody without any physical disabilities, trying to do combos in certain older games that require microdashes causes me actual pain, it's very different from just having difficulty doing complex execution.
I do really like manual dashing. Hitting perfect air dashes and just moving in Xrd makes me happy in a way that Strive doesn't. You instantly recognize a good player by their movement prowess which I always thought was one of the coolest things. I'm ok with Strive having the macro obviously and I get the accessibility and balance arguments but I'd hate if a lot of games moving forward would just have a dash macro by default.
Counterpoint:
So?
Wasn't there an MvC2 player who famously sacrificed one of his action buttons just to get a dash macro? Finesse, maybe? I think he played without one of his assists just because the one-button dash was so powerful.
Fanatic yes.
“Will you practice or will you macro?” - yes I choose macro because I will practice inputs, but I’m out of patience for practicing every single input of any kind- where’s the love for QOL in games?!
will you get good? or will you cry for "QOL" and "simplfication" like a dog?
I may or may not have quit BBCF after trying for months to play characters that don't microdash, because I fucked up my left thumb and broke a fightstick's gate spring trying to learn simple combos with Jin Kisaragi.
But I can't imagine how fucked up some characters would be with a dash macro.
As a Potemkin player, what the hell is a dash?
BBCF Naoto with a dash macro would make people hate that character lmao
As a Slayer main, I am fully in support of the idea of adding a dash macro. I can assure you that we Slayer mains will solemnly swear in the name of Dandyism to never use it to get easy BDCs.
The only thing I use the Dash button for in Strive is to do Chipps Rekka out of a sprint and YES it's good
I'ma be honest, I didn't even have to stay within the series for the dash button to mess me up - for a while I was learning +R and mvc2 at the same time, and I kept trying to button dash in +R because of it
I also forget whether I need to FD or pushblock jumping between them
good times
Y’all advocate for dash macro 1 button sprint inputs to negate Mahvel 3 tendinitis and the annoyance of double tap forward, but when someone advocates for more games without motion inputs, not even asking for changes to existing games, y’all shit on everyone else? Crazy.
I play on hitbox and my buttons are already losing space to things like throw macro bc it can be very uncomfortable in certain games, so I don’t personally use dash macro. I do think it is easier to manual dash on hitbox though so maybe I’m carried
Sounds like Injustice needs a dash macro.
My first fighting game was strive so I became very used to the dash macro so when I recently started playing SFV I was really lamed out that there was no dash macro but over time I started appreciating higher level gameplay where those players have a much better handle over movement. So in short, knee jerk reaction no dash macro = lame, thought overtime simply another thing to get better at.
Yeah I'm the same. Picking up any game after Strive felt really awkward at first. USF4 is starting to beat it out of me because I just have to learn FADCs.
I literally never used dash macro for a normal grounded dash until HC came out. Then it became a necessity. I always used it for IAD and dash RC.
I’ve only been playing fighting games for a couple years now but reading these comments is blowing my mind. I honestly cannot imagine how or why someone would just straight up HATE traditional dash inputs like I’ve seen some people here say. I’m not against building your game with the option, even tho I’m the type of player who does everything manually (dashing, RCs, drift RCs, etc), and I understand people with physical ailments/disabilities needing the macro to feel competitive at the game. But for the life of me I can’t understand how someone (who’s able-bodied) could legitimately be turned off from a game because you have to press forward twice to dash
I think it ties back to control methods, input leniency, and buffers. Double-tap dashing on a 3DS Circle Pad? So effortless that my years of playing Kirby mean I have to consciously try NOT to do it. Doing it on Xbox D-pads, which make up the vast majority of 3rd-party PC controllers and are fine for 99% of all other games? Almost impossible to do consistently. It has to do with how much your thumb has to move and in what ways. All the elitists who use fightsticks aren't helping either - it is frankly unreasonable to expect anyone to buy a controller for use in only a single genre of games, much less a genre that's difficult to get into even with those dedicated controllers.
I play on pad and the dash macro is a blessing. I cannot dash comfortably with the analog stick. And i cannot do motions with the DPad or use it in general due to how annoying it is for me.
It's almost like making basic functions easier makes the level of play higher. Motion input good, dash macro also good.
As long as the game developers make sure that as much of my controller gets used in the game, I'm happy.
I love how backdashes are designed in older anime fighters, and wish it would come back but you can't have backdashes like that in a game with a dash macro. I just wish we got a new anime fighter that played similarly to older games, lumina kinda does but it has so many issues and still follows more modern design trends. There's already so many games out right now that are simplified, can't we have one that plays really complicated and technical?
KOF?
@@blade_serenade3333 that is not an anime fighter at all but I do enjoy it! Probably the only modern fighting game I've liked alongside Tekken.
@@draconitix1157 maybe i'm just ignorant but what anime games are super complex? Dont most have autocombos, relatively simple combo structure, etc. I didnt really start playing anime games till Xrd and bbtag
@@blade_serenade3333 Guilty gear +r/xrd, mbaacc, uniclr, bbcf are some examples of older to more recent anime fighters that are super deep with higher execution and more character complexity. To my knowledge p4au was the first anime fighter to reduce input complexity and have auto combos, but it managed to find character depth still and still had some hard combos.
I feel the same but i think something like that will happen in a few years when people get tired of this current trend of making everything easier and more "neutral" focused. At first i had fun with some of these newer takes on the genre but nowadays i only play +R lol.
I do both depending on who I’m using strive wise
Shouout to the tweet author
I mean I use a keyboard to play but I've never once used the dash macro tbh, I have it bound on my right thumb but it just seems weird not to quickly tap 6 twice
like giving Guile a one button flash kick
Dash buttons should only be working as intended - dash only, and not allowing someone to do what was otherwise impossible with normal backdash, such as charging while back dashing.