Stack Overflow Survey 2024
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
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By: Erin Yepis
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Clicked on this vid faster than Theo changes his mind on popular frameworks
S tier comment
Is that even possible?!
Fun fact i submitted that FUGGIN link a week ago 😂
Har har har .. good one.
"I'm coming around on Angular"
can't believe he did this without me FeelsBadMan
yeah, last year survey review was cool! with you both!
teej_dv fell off
F
6:40
This commentor streams on Twitch BTW
43% of devs that trust AI are bots.
It's been repeatedly shown less skilled deva accept more AI suggestions. And AI causes a lot more code review problems and maintenance. It's Dunning-Kruger in a bottle. Apply directly to the forehead.
I know a guy who got hired in some administrative job, figured out he could get chatgpt to write excel macros for him, fancied himself a programmer, demanded programmer pay, and when they obviously refused he quit thinking he'd just get a well paid developer job somewhere. A year later he's still unemployed and lives in a small room at his mother's.
I completely trust AI. Why would you not trust AI?
@@OfficialBeeswax It's sad that his company didn't want to allow him to grow into a new position, but it's common knowledge that making a move like this is much easier by accepting a new position rather than moving in house.
Hopefully he's spent this year of his life to work on his automation and scripting skills and learning how to do interviews and work-tests in tech, taking a year off in order to apply for a fair sized salary bump will pay off quickly.
@@WiseWeeabo lol
"Alright Flip, you can start back up here."
Narrator: Flip would not, in fact, start back up there.
8 likes? Underrated comment
@@eamonburns9597 thanks dog 😂
I can't wait for the latest Stack Overflow survey to be read by my favorite dyslexic TH-camr
C is the first language usually taught in Indian colleges and Notepad++ is the editor they start with in institutes. Considering a lot of answers are from Indians, they make sense.
Its bad
only trust code from brahmins
@@Singh54321 Well i was just talking about their usage
no way institutions in India are still stuck with notepad++. Schools I can understand. That's just laziness at its peak.
In my college, I learned Java by coding in plain Notepad.
But that was 24 years ago.
48:56 My teachers in my bachelor degree used notepad++ and teached us notepad++ for Java exams, basically their point was that since notepad++ doesn't provide IDEs functionalities it was better for learning how to code without suggestions (the point was learning the syntax)
Terrible. Not the least of which is when the auto-complete has a strike through it, so you realize the function your professor is teaching is deprecated. Many jobs explicitly teach NOT memorizing for precisely that reason. Pilots, for example, are taught to read the procedure every single time. A lot of general aviation pilots don't like that advice and just memorize the book of show what a badass they are. Their family visits the crash site every year to remember them.
yeah coming from intellij i don't remeber most of the java imports because intellij held my hand in that aspect. I had to turn it off.
@@KevinJDildonik it kinda depends on the ide though like in jetbrains wont tell you if a class is deprecated in that current version of the jdk you'd have to hover over it then it shows the `@Deprecated` symbol. Learn the lang when you are comfortable turn it on.
Brother, who tf learns syntax i mean u will have to learn other languages, so u gonna use notepad again 😮
Teaching algorithm and how to think with shapes or maybe pseudocode makes sense but that's unnecessary
The Java backend I worked on was awesome and it was basically brand new when I started. Modern Java is pretty awesome in a lot of ways.
Modern as in 22 or 17?
@@timbrap4693as Java 8
Why'd you delete your union video?
Ooooooo obviously big gaming got to him. Did Flip go union?
Talking about unions is hard because they look great on paper and protect the few at the cost of many according lying businessmen and honest lawmakers
@@airkamiDepends on the Union, there are some that actually benefit employees and some that don't and overall it's probably fair to say that unions are one of the most corrupt institutions in the history of the country.
@liamconverse8950 to be fair, I would rather have corrupt unions than corrupt employers
Big Communism pressured prime to take the video off the platform. They blackmailed him by threatening to reveal footage where he's advocating "skill issues" and using linux/vim/gcc (dangerous communist anti-american products instead of american, capitalist, secure and homegrown Microsoft Windows/VSCode). TH-cam is also trying to restrict me from spreading the truth and deleted my comment but the truth must come out.
The joke at 22:20 about "persevering despite the salary cuts" was 100% "Dev Bill Burr" and I love it.
50 hours isn't quite workaholic, but it is certainly overworked, especially if you're trying to spend more time with your kids. 50 hours is a big chunk of your week
Depends if travel time is included or not. 50h working from home is totally different from working at the office one hour away. And if break for lunch is counted or not. That would make 50h become 65h, which people would round up and say: Im doing 70h/w
50 hours is still overtime when 40 is the norm.
Prime is clearly a workaholic in denial. He's clearly also passionate about coding above and beyond most and seems to think that's normal too while most people are content to code their 40 (or not even 40) hours/week and have other hobbies that don't entail programming a single line of anything outside work.
@@eightsprites obviously travel time is not included. It never is
@@mattymattffs anyone expecting me to work more than 40 hours a week not including travel time is nuts. I've got a life outside this job that has to be attended to.
by audio material they mean TJ reading the entire neovim manual
"postgreeesqweeel"
The thing is that I'll be repeating it that way at work. I've said "chatyeepeetee" multiple times
@@linkarzu I wonder if Prime did this at Netflix as well
@@neppe4047 probably his ex teammates say "kubernets"
Has Flip listened even one time when Prime asked for something to happen in editing? 5m into the video ... "Alright Flip, you can start back up now." :D
On the integrated development environment one. I'm pretty certain this is not a radio button box like I prefer this one over all the others. I think it's a checkbox list of any that you have used in the last year. So that means if I have three Legacy projects that are already set up and work really easily in Visual Studio even though I've migrated to say webstorm or PHP storm or neovim or IntelliJ because I have one project a year that I might open that was created in that way and I want to keep using the same workflow I had before I would check the box even though it might not be what I would choose for a current project. So the reason why visual studio and visual studio code are so high is a lot of these alternative IDs are just now with the exception of of those ones done on a command line same to only recently beginning any traction. This says more about the fact that people comfortable with Microsoft Windows are more likely to choose a Microsoft IDE to the extent that the Microsoft IDE does the things they want it to do. I have often felt that this particular survey was only interesting to see the growth or the change from year to year not anything else.
I'm rewatching Silicon Valley and just came across your video and i must say you look like a crossbreed between Erlich and Richard
Thanks for pointing this out.
I would call him Rilich (with [ tʃ ] )
_Rust and Markdown most admired._
I only run software written in Markdown
markdown totally deserved
why markdown so popular?
Because it's the best for READMEs and GitHub natively supports it, I guess. Also used a lot for SSG for whatever reason
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070perfect for writing simple notes AND plaintext formats are handy
I think what they meant when they put Gcc/Clang in embedded technologies is that questions tagged with "Embedded Programming" frequently contained those tools
The majority of embedded code I have dealt with was done on a normal x86 linux system then cross compiled using gcc to the target chip's architecture. In turn, that byte code was directly ran on the embedded system at startup.
@@barongerhardt precisely my point: "How do I cross-compile a custom c library for an ESP32 using gcc?" would be both tagged as Embedded and as a gcc question
@@DMDemon I don't know much about prime. So could be totally wrong, but my guess is that he has little to no experience in embedded systems.
Yes. Also, he made fun of having nothing else to use but GCC, but actually Keil compiler or compiler that comes with IAR workbench are viable alternatives, depending on your usecase (the IDEs suck hard though)
CLOJURE MENTIONED! FINALLY. i need a new job
I'm actually Norwegian.
Why do you think YAML discriminates us?
Edit: I looked it up, and now I'm mad,
this was the greatest rollercoaster ever
Cope and seethe!
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hoodieless prime scares me
Anyone else writing C# back ends on Linux? Let's go!
💀
Improving code quality makes the rest of the coding more fun. Devs who think of code as throwaway is selfish since that’s the code everyone else has to bust their balls to grok, integrate with, or completely rewrite.
@@Dfjs427 spoken like a true brat. Good job 👍.
Already waiting for that redstone webserver stream
Once again, StackOverflow creates a poorly worded survey, makes grandiose assumptions about unrelated data, then shows it has absolutely no idea how statistics works.
actual real opinions here. Thanks Prime for the explanation and no BS
SQLite's only weakness is its inability to handle multithreading/multiprocess requests. But you can mitigate that by making your own server frontend to it for your app. Then you are limited to what your server can handle for inbound connections. SQLite is small, light, fast, embeddable, and rivals formal database products.
There are two eras of watching prime.
Before and after you saw the helldivers kneeshot. I can not not think of him as adorable.
Lol, you make audio content, Prime! 😂
I listen to your streams while driving all the time.
Regarding the Telegram usage: it is extremely popular in ex-soviet countries. And it also has API to support bots. A lot of people use them as a cheap way to start a small service that probably could have been a website. But this thing does not require any frontend knowledge
Seeing cuda and electron on the same lists had me dying💀
both rail the gpu
I use WSL. Its pretty cool because you can have multiple Linux distros, and versions of those distros, and the same time. You can access the files from your Windows in your Linux WSLs, and vice versa. I even run my Intellij IDE from Ubuntu WSL and use X server to access the UI on my Windows desktop. Works great.
ThePrimeagen on unit testing:
"It's like eating salad, I'm not like loving it, but I have to do it"
So damn true!
Are notepad plus plus. It has surprisingly a lot of hooks for languages now I don't usually do much coding in it but it's a great tool to compare code without messing with the code that you have in your regular editor I think the reason it's so high is because notepad sucks so bad on Windows and it's real easy to add a notepad plus plus install from Windows store for managing text in deployments and that's why it's showing up on this list
Why is Windows's notepad bad? It's basic, and simple, does its jobs perfectly.
@@haniffaris8917 well let me see does it have line numbers I don't think it has line numbers? Now the latest release does sort of keep some things cash if you close it and forget to save notepad plus plus provides the ability to have some syntax highlighting you can create macros in it you can easily by command change capitalization of words notepad is designed for very very very very very tiny notes it's not designed for code at all. Now no pet plus plus I still don't feel like it's an idea because I think you have to hook into command line tools to leverage that but it has far more functionality than Notepad
@@Veretax Yeah, all that, but I don't think that's the point.
Although, granted, I think I misunderstood the context when you said notepad on Windows sucks.
It is horrible for programming, but I think as a simple note taking, it does it jobs flawlessly.
Tech stacks are insane now.
I did 2000 lines of "code as infrastructure" for 2 endpoints and 500 lines of actual programming logic.
I checked last years results and Angulars stats trended up by a few percent this time, especiall in admired
notepad++ is used a lot in non-IT branches where file-extensions and clean-formatting are important when inputting data into specific systems (HTML-scripts / CSV-files and even JSON. For the people who are only familiair with MS Notepad, Notepad ++ is "comprehensible" and a way to stop the collegues coming to you with the question to do (the simples) manipulations.
Freaking flip made us watch all the discord and twitch posting at the beginning 😂
Deciphering archaic legacy code and documenting it. That's my favorite
I learned 4 binds in VSCode yesterday... And I think that after my thesis I will try to adopt vim for real. I can see the potential.
the world wide web vs double u double u double u is so true, thats actually wild
Thanks for making the video. 🎉❤
The problem with the highest paying languages list is that it's not grouped by location, so it's effectively just a list of the least popular languages in India.
I’m confused about desired and admired having different meanings specifically for programming language surveys. Using standard English, I would think that a language that is admired has elements that you find philosophically appealing, while desired seems like it should refer to one which you would actually want to program in (either because it’s practical or fun).
We follow Space X because we like seeing rockets go BOOM.
24:08 Lol turning on the notifications here for this one.
More questions on specific tech processed as most used tech. But reality is if language/framework is easy to understand and well documented. Then there will be less questions.
Beautiful wife mentioned! 😂 "I'm about to stack overflow, guuuurl.... I don't… my wife is not going to be happy with that one" lol golden. love it
This year I learned C C++ and just a tad bit of assembly.
Also played around around with elixir go rust zig and even some javascript (only when I had to)
Your technical debt question on what do they mean by that is interesting. Is it lacking latest tool features or, in my mind something like:
Prior code whose implementation and design choices has started to have a material impact on current and future development close to or beyond the perceived (lol) cost of redevelping the debt items.
The brain is also "just a function approximation" that responds in the ways it's been trained. Albeit a lot more efficient and advanced but I wouldn't knock technology on the basis of being a simple schematic.
Remember, " Trust accuracy of AI tools" Doesn't mean "blindly trust", I trust copilot to sometime help me autocomplete my unit tests, that doesn't mean I will trust whatever is suggested without reading it first.
Yeah because chat GPT even if you set up rules for something that you're letting it generate the code to see if it's structured the way you want and then you say it looks good that's right some tests around it. In a language like say typescript where you handle JavaScript promises with. Then. Catch send text out of nowhere Eagle River to the older style with a wait. It's really weird how how it can be coding just fine and then all the sudden it's like why did you suddenly change from what you had the previous message it has serious working memory issues chat GPT has ADHD there I called it
@@Veretax Eagle river ? what ? XD might be because it's late but there are part of the message I don't get lol.
I don't think I've used ChatGPT for dev so far, only Copilot, and that's mainly as a glorified autocompletion when I write tests.
I’ve yet to have GPT do something right with a code question. It’s even worse with 4/4o as it’s just so dang wordy it never gets to actually solving the problem, just hyping itself up to explain what you just said back to you
@@bob_kazamakis little bit surprise of the difference between chatgpt and copilot then. Good to know
@@bob_kazamakis yes it does Echo back to you. I have seen it answer some code questions correctly. But I don't think it's a wear when it's actually corrected as soon as it's always correct because you could ask a similar question having forgotten that the solution was posted and it'll give you a different solution after that actually might not work as well. It has no real situational awareness in code that is a problem in complex code bases. If all you're doing is simpler perhaps more credit stuff maybe it might be helpful but
7:30 HTML5 + CSS3 is turing complete. You can do a Rule 110 implementation with it. So why shouldn't it count as programming language?
MyWifeIsGonnaBeDisappointedAgen is my favourite -agen
What would be really entertaining would be watching Prime do some Java projects, specially if it's Spring Boot or even Java EE with JSF!
It is crazy how high up on that list PostgreeSqueal is.
I think you should do your own survey, just for fun! =D
i've been writing in elixir over the past couple of years (after years of... everything else;), and i want to keep doing that for the foreseeable future.
WSL has been a game changer for me for developing on windows
Lmao. I remember my first "full stack developer" video. At the end, even with no real understanding of anything, I knew that was in no way the full stack of tech needed to make anything happen.
regardless of the sales hype. I have been teaching programming topics for 35+ years as a side gig and AI appears to program at a 7th grade level.
I negotiated a 38% raise this year. That what it took for me to put up with the DEI stupid-ness.
I realized I watched more Primagen than I did Netflix in 2024…
Sheeeeeesh, redstone development, hell yeeeeeeah
But why do you need windows for it? MC is native on Linux
Wait a minute, zig rust neovim highest appreciation indices. Is there a primeagen bot out there?
New programmer (really took a serious approach 1st part of 2024).
So far I've had a good experience starting with Python, then moving to Java. It feels like a stepping stone - some of how verbose Java is helps me identify what I've been doing "wrong" in Python.
I want to learn Rust eventually. I've only spent a month with Java now. Any tips on if I should jump straight from Java to Rust, or is there another intermediary step, like Python to Java, that would help? I'm in no rush to learn, I just want to learn well while not feeling excessively stagnant like I did on my first attempt when I jumped straight to C++ (before Python).
Java is verbose for no good reason. Rust can be verbose but for a good reason. Types sometimes need to be specified, lifetimes, error handling, iteration, etc. Go learn Rust
You can just do some simple demos in all languages just for fun.
Way to hate all this pathetic languages is a right way.
I think it's fair to consider security a frustration. To me, frustration with something typically means you would rather not have to deal with it, and I don't think anyone would argue that a world where we don't have to worry about things like vulnerabilities wouldn't be nice to have. It just isn't reality, unfortunately. I doubt that they think it's unimportant or anything; just annoying.
Technically, you can compile QT and many other UI libraries into WASM if you really didn't want to use html and css. I suspect there are even native UI libraries that use html and css but also compile into WASM.
i work for big telecom company. Amount of tech debt here is insane. Some services are older than i am.
4:40 I don't think that the topic of trusting AI was about blindly trusting it, but about what kind of results you trust you can get with your prompts.
The intro tells me its gonna be a good video
"React was a Mistake", Perfect 👍
15:05 this reminds me of some satire comic where there was a survey "do you like answering surveys
99% of the people said "yes", .5 said "no"
Kinda flippant about the un/under employment problem in tech right now. The job market is the worst I've ever seen in my 16 year career. It's not funny.
15:17 My brother learned how to code in Highschool by hand. As in, writing code in a notebook with a pen.
i very hope svelte team will develop the official svelte cross platform, it will aim to the current react superiority (cross platform) because using 3rd libraries are complicated >< so i hope svelte team develop the official version that will simple to be used like svelte paradigm, so i dont need to dig dive to another new language and will save time plus the simplicity of svelte, imagine if you can build web, android, ios app in just a few hours, what an incredible, i will dominate playstore lmao
54:27 PLEASE TELL ME HE ISN'T TROLLING!!! I so want to see this!
The reason gcc is considered an embedded technology is because it cross compiles to the largest number of platforms, including raspberry pi
People still use StackOverflow?
I work remotely. I also have a remote salary, it's not often I see a pay check.
I do hate tracking what I work on but only for the customer facing work. If we quote 100 hours we Bill 100 hours. We don't bill any excess. We don't give them a deal for coming in under we bill what we quote. So why should I even track my hours? For the internal work? I don't have to track exactly what I was working on. I just have to track that. I worked on the internal project which project I worked on and that's fine
I feel like years after years this survey getting worse, first it represents mostly America and Germany only.
And questions are really to vague, some tech have nothing to do in the same category…
I like the concepts of this survey, but I thinks accuracy is very low or just subjective 😅
We got gen z technical rant
About the technical debt, I'm pretty sure it's not just not being able to use RSC. Like the main projects that I work on, they rely on azure-devops-ui library that's entirely class based React 16, and it actually completely breaks because of it's bad design when you upgrade to higher React version. But that library is not where the tech debt is coming from on my projects. The tech debt, comes from the fact that the only time "to SWE anything" comes from me over inflating my estimations, so I can tell management adding feature Y takes 3x as long as it actually takes, and then spend the remaining time on insignificant stuff like building a common library for all of our little web apps, and refactoring out poorly thought out structures I build 12 months ago, when I was desperately rushing to meet a deadline.
Went to watch Prime, yt loaded Day[9] playing Warcraft 2
I use Notepad++ in order to quickly edit some text in a config file or open up a log file. This is usually when I dont have another editor open that I actually code in nowadays. I used to code (C/C++) in it in college.
For me that's gonna be Zed, I really want this app to get more support and I can see it getting more traction. It's genius how this editor is built with a game engine
you're right about the numbers, those numbers are fucked up
ERLANG Mentioned!!! Let's goo
Some of that Tech Debt frustration is probably new comers learning what it's like working on "legacy" systems (a.k.a. anything in production).
But, I've worked for Fortune 500 companies, Startups and medium Companies. All systems have tech debt, and Management doesn't care. Because fixing Tech Debt doesn't bring in Money. If anything, it usually costs the company more money because Engineering time is spent on things that aren't producing Revenue.
I know the frustration is real with Developers, but Buisnesses are also under pressure to make profits, to pay said Engineers and their other Bills.
them: I've never worked on this code base, It needs re-writing....
Me: aahhhhrrrgggggg
BashBunni is a cool developer advocate
Developer advocate here I come 2024 😂. Better than no jaaab. Fancy autocomplete going to take my developer advocate jaaaab.
Funny answers in Embedded. I thought Arduino and Raspberry are low level learning diveses. At the moment I learn with an discovery board from ST.
27:06
I think his background is showing here. The frustration with technical debt comes from the fact that many developers work with codebases that are obviously dysfunctional to the point of causing damage to the business, but making middle management understand the necessity of refactoring and rewrites is almost impossible since all they care about is new features. This is what is going on in many companies that treat software development as a cost center.
If one has only worked at companies where software development is understood to be the profit center, one cannot really understand the frustration that grows out of these organizational issues.
Honestly, programming on Windows is not as bad as you think it is. I've had to do it professionally for like 6 or 7 years now just because the environments we work with do not have non-windows tooling
Italy is heavy into windows. C# and .NET environment for windows is really in demand
For admired/desired, the big number is how many people want to use it and the little number is of those people, who is currently using it.
I don't think people who use it and hate it are shown on the graph.
So basically one is actual popularity and one is imaginary popularity e.g. it's easy to say you want to use rust but most people never try, or they only do it for an hour, or they can't convince the rest of the org to rewrite it in rust.
Big is admired, small is desired. It can't be that complicated. The big number is those who use it and enjoy it. And small is those who wish to use it.
1:04:00 Not alone. It feels nice until you have to crack some async plus traits plus lifetimes plus threads, and then it feels like pushing a cart full of rocks.
at 56:19 guess what happened! Gemini was trained on data that says "C++ is not for kids" xD
i use notepad++ just as a notepad, its handy that you dont need to save the files, i also use it to format json, but i never actually write code in it
I wonder if admired and desired could be called liked and hyped instead 🤔