Subaru Won't Loan Us Cars To Review, So We Bought One! Long Term Review #1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ต.ค. 2024
- ( www.TFLcar.com ) Subaru Won't Loan Us Cars To Review, So We Bought One!
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If Subaru does not loan you vehicles , then you should not advertise them by reviewing them. Either way I appreciate the fact you guys went the extra mile to purchase one for our watching pleasure. Keep up the great work.
You gotta be the stronger mind and don't go down on their level. Point of this channel is to review cars that they think the viewers want to see, not to make advertisements for car companies.
I don't think this will be a very good advertisement based on the short clips of off-road usage. More like a big dose of truth.
I think they key point is... they TOOK THE CAR OUT OF YOUR GARAGE!?!?! like WTF!!!! not only were they trespassing on your personal property but they didn't even disclose that information to you. That is so wrong on so many levels.
He had to have known that was possible WHEN HE GAVE THEM HIS GARAGE CODE. What a whiner, I wonder if he offered to pay to repair the paint?
Here you go @fender: th-cam.com/video/-D8iylWw4kw/w-d-xo.html and here's a more recent example where Roman took Jeep owner complaints right to the manufacturer on their program before a dinner that Jeep paid for: th-cam.com/video/UEMzeGynoX8/w-d-xo.html FYI: Roman has his master degree in Journalism from Northwestern University. He's an old school journalist that believes in being fair and completely transparent. You know from the days when those words actually meant something.
TFL doesn’t sugarcoat reviews, that’s why they are so trusted. Too many journalist will simply read off the manufacturers PDF that’s handed to them at press releases, while others are clearly fanboys that never address the elephant in the room..... which appears to be head-gaskets, judging by comments here so far. One owner saying they are very reliable in one comment & expensive to maintain in another ... can’t be too reliable if you gotta shell out big bucks just to keep it on the road.
Tim Fox maintenance isn't necessarily repairs. Brakes and oil n regular service are very expensive on "imports" those cvt trans need service more often, like 50k miles and it's like $3-400 for the special fluid specific to cvt...
Here you go Tim: th-cam.com/video/-D8iylWw4kw/w-d-xo.html and here's a more recent example where Roman took Jeep owner complaints right to the manufacturer on their program before a dinner that Jeep paid for: th-cam.com/video/UEMzeGynoX8/w-d-xo.html FYI: Roman has his master degree in Journalism from Northwestern University. He's an old school journalist that believes in being fair and completely transparent. You know from the days when those words actually meant something.
Subaru engines are not the greatest feats of engineering in the world, and boxer engines suck by comparison to inline/V engines (for car applications). This thing will either suffer from headgaskets, or oil consumption before long.
fender : Manufacturers fly out journalist to wine & dine to market their products..... its a marketing strategy
TFL gives a full review, they will say what’s good & what’s not
In fact, when given competitors products by a manufacturer .... TFL has often said “Company A provided their car & cars from their competition ... car B gets better mpg, Car D has better interior fit & finish, Cars B & C are better handling”
brakes and oil changes on a Subaru are no more difficult or different than on any modern car, foreign or domestic. If you are being charged more because "it's an import", you are getting hosed.
Subaru had one of the most capable light off-road systems around. However they made the mistake of using a CVT transmission. They are still great for snowy roads and flat loose surfaces. However the CVT is not well suited to elevation changes. To be honest most people that buy one of these are never going to take it off-road at all. This is going to be interesting and I am looking forward to this whole series.
no, the new AWD system pales in comparison to the old ones. CVT is not the only change they made
Nearly all Subaru's end up having to have new head gaskets. What is up with that? To me this seems like either bad design or bad engineering. I will never buy another Subaru because they don't seem to be very well thought out or engineered. Maintenance beyond the warranty period tends to get a bit ridiculous.
Go to 5:49 to hear the explanation of why TFL doesn't work with Subaru (or vice-versa).
So it's a disgrace that a manufacturer doesn't want to work with TFL because they abused a car beyond the terms and conditions in the contracts to have cars loaned to them? Right. Sure pulling the car out of a garage without permission was wrong; But I don't blame them for revoking press car privileges to people who willfully damaged a car, and risked damaging it worse than they did.
Ryan Slemmer we never willfully destroyed anything. The scratches that it received were unfortunate, but it’s happened before. We test the cars as they are marketed. It didn’t state anywhere that we were not permitted to take the car off road. Not once. Not a SINGLE automaker has a problem with our testing methods as long as we are transparent.
Never said destroyed, but on video TFL admitted proceeding up a trail that was overgrown damaging the paint. That shows willful, albeit unintended damage. But there are different levels of off-roading as well. Again something TFL has said in the past that some of these tests are beyond what a car was designed for or would likely ever see in real life. An outback is marketed as an active lifestyle vehicle capable of light duty off-roading. I'm sure the contracts said something somewhere of what goes beyond acceptable testing, and will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Sure it's expected to go off the beaten path, but to take it to a point and try to do things meant for hardcore off-roaders is where a line gets drawn since it has to be drawn somewhere. I'm sure Subaru would have kept loaning cars if it was just a few scratches occasionally, but risking drivetrain damage is where they chose to draw the line.
Ryan Slemmer “Willful” nope! You can’t be “willful” and “unintended.” We willfully tested the vehicle in a difficult environment. Not to bash it, but to test It’s grip, all-wheel drive systems, power, ground clearance and overall rugged abilities.We’ve been doing this for years. We will fully test EVERY crossover vehicle in a difficult environment.Your repeated comments indicate to me that no matter what I say, you’re mind is made up.
Ryan Slemmer Accidents happen all the time. Patrick George from Jalopnik crashed a Camaro into a wall and they didn’t react nearly as poorly as Subaru did over a couple of little scratches. I think Subaru needs to realize that press cars are going to get beat up.
I currently own a 2018 Crosstrek, which is my ninth Subaru. I traded in a 2016 Jeep Renegade for the Crosstrek. Up here in Western New York, the winters can get pretty bad and I wanted the reliability and snow handling capability of a Subaru(with proper snow tires)and they have never let me down. I can't wait for your review! Cheers!
Outback, a good everyday driver if you're not a boy racer or off roader.Buy a jeep if you want to go off-roading..and get a harsh ride along with lousy gas mileage on paved roads.....
wizeguiz gross. Crosstrek is literally the worst and slowest car on the road today. I have no idea how you own that
wizeguiz my1999 Jeep Cherokee Xj has 330,000 miles and is just like new. Subaru's are very weak in the snow and off road plus they will never go 300,000miles
Bob, I have never had a problem with any of my eight Subies in the snow. As far as off roading...that's only when I drive off the road accidentally.LOL! I have seen other owners here in Western NY that are at the 300,000 miles on the odo, but I never keep a vehicle more then three years. Cheers
I have had a 2015 WRX that was a little faster, but I'm not as much interested in speed as handling in the snow here where we measure in in feet not inches. Cheers!
I owned Subarus (2007 impreza wagon 2.5, 2011 Legacy Sport and now a 2017 Impreza) and I never got stuck and the engine NEVER stop when getting up a hill. The transmission were all CVT, exept the 2007. I live up north Canada, so winter is great and I go back road country camping, fishing and try out how the Subaru can handle hills.
The only thing I can give you a hint, is to turn off traction control. I never tried X-Mode on someones other Subaru.
As a two Subaru family,I'm so glad that you bought a Subaru to review. I was pissed when they no longer gave you cars to review. All the other car companies have no problem. When they went to a CVT, transmission they compromised the off road ability of their vehicles. Subaru is afraid that their cars will not stack up against the competition in your tests. Keep up the good work.
W G I also own 2 Subaru’s. I have never had the need to take them down a trail like this, have you?
I’m not pissed that Subaru won’t let them test their loner cars. I’m betting TFL breached their contract and that’s a no no. But like I do want to know if there’s off road limitations because of the CVT.
There’s a manual mode for the newer auto Subaru’s. I wonder if that would have helped
The fact that they discontinued the beautiful 6 speed manual transmission for this is a problem.
Why do some people (you) can't get over the fact that manual transmission cars will be gone in the next decade? No, driving a manual transmission doesn't make you more manly and it certainly doesn't make you a better driver.
Why do people that drive manual transmission cars have to brag about it all the time? You have to get over the fact that millenials don't know how to drive manual transmisson cars and don't want to spend the time and energy to learn how to. Heck, they don't even know how to tie their shoes.
CVTs suck for driving enjoyment but are great for improving fuel economy. ZF and Toyota make some great high performance automatic transmissions.
Speak for your country then that never been good with manuals. In many countries in Europe you have to do your driving test in a manual car.
And even though the manual probably is going away, why can't we like them?
I hate autos and I'm born in -88.
My newest car is a 2016 and that is a manual.
I could live without a manual. But I refuse to buy anything with a CVT. Automatic is fine and should be the standard trans. But a manual would be far better than a CVT. And a manual is not hard to drive and despite what anyone thinks. As long as cars still have internal combustion engines, manual trans will still be around.
Guess Subaru didn't like that video of the CVT trans criticism?
I have a 2016 Outback and I had taken it off-road I thought I was stuck in the mud because it stopped giving power even with x mode BUT unlike in yalls review I turned traction control off and used the paddle shifters to put it in “first gear” and all the wheels just kept going, it ate through the mud like it was nothing.
My grandma has this car. It stores her knitting needles and extra wool for her cat to play with.
Subaru doesn’t want them to review one because TFL ACTUALLY tests the cars and see what they are capable and not capable of doing. The brand knows their ‘AWD’ system isn’t the best and they know what it’ll look like climbing those trails.
Trey K they absolutely do have the best awd system. I just think they’re designed more for snow than off road. There’s plenty of videos where it’s better than jeeps in snow but clearly it won’t beat a Wrangler off road.
Michael 0788 sorry but subaru do not have the best awd system lol. The title of the best awd system belongs to Mitsubishi and their S-AWC
The subaru failed because of it's CVT not because of it's AWD system. Symmetrical is not best for true offroading, but it is best for predictable and excellent handling on gravel and snow, which is what these cars are designed for.
I would agree. I had that system in a 2005 model and it was great. This was before the CVT transition. I would not and have not bought another one mainly because of the TFL embargo.
Michael 0788 not much more than what a Ford Escape can manage and a better price and higher crash safety rating. th-cam.com/video/hU7x9E9Elsc/w-d-xo.html
1990s called and they want their wheels back.
Subaru's first mistake was banning you for half a decade and counting.
Subaru's second mistake is their insistence on using CVTs.
Did you guys turn the T/C off? It says to in the owners manual to allow x-mode and the AWD system to dig in. I own a '18 2.5 and went up a muddy 12 degree goat trail on a day it was raining heavily without issue. Not that Subaru wasn't unprofessional, not to shill the company this is my first Subaru. We enjoy it so far
CVT absolutely does not belong in any car that is intended for even mild "Off road". I don't like CVT to begin with, I do understand the "benifits" in a econobox. But if you want performance then manual (which is sadly dying out) or a good old fashioned automatic. Dual clutch transmissions also have a lot of quirks that make them good sometimes and shit other times.... But as far as off road. I'll take a automatic. In a sport car, give me a manual.
Craig Quann outback is a lifted estate type of car. The cvt has torque converter, low speed dirt road type offroading shouldn't be a problem. Rock climbing isn't for an outback.
Thor _ TFL was not rock crawling when they got the outback stuck, they were going up a dirt hill that looks almost identical to the dirt hill in subaru's own outback brochure. Subaru says the outback is "built to take you places you've never been." What a joke. See for yourself www.subaru.com/vehicles/outback/index.html
I don't know.. This is my first Subaru and first cvt and have been very impressed on and off road. It's surprisingly capable and I've taken it some nice steep hills and had it teetering on Two opposing wheels.
Subaru ever since they come out with the CVT has gone to crap......
The AWD just feels like rubber bands are at work.
Here is what i mean.
I worked at a car dealer in 2011 and we got some outbacks.
All of them were 2.5L but we had 1 that was the 3.6L
My job was to wash cars and lot stuff really.
So i live in Canada and we get some real cold winters.
So i washing all these Subaru's in like January and of coarse im parking them outside.
What was happening was the brakes would freeze on all of them. Sounds normal right?
So when you would go start the car up next day and go drive them, these Outback's would NOT move.....At all.
The only one that COULD move was the 3.6L.
After thinking that was kind of odd i asked a tech what was up with this?
I was told that ALL Subaru outbacks past 2010 had a CVT OTHER than the 3.6L it had a standard automatic.
Moral of the story is CVT subaru's are not anything like the used to.....The last Subaru with an auto is a 2014 3.6R legacy or outback.....
CVT= Junk and anyone with a brain in there head should NOT buy one.
I refuse to buy a vehicle with a CVT transmission regardless of the manufacturer, they are boring to drive and suck off-road, but you know that already. I remember when Subaru snubbed you after you scratched one while driving it off-road, I was not impressed with how they handled that. I look forward to an honest reviews, keep them coming.
CVT off-road ; hmm their problems may be universal then - I had a rented Nissan X-trail and the thing point-blank refused to take-off up a hump no higher than a street gutter - it simply wouldn't even try to move.
And I feared reversing out of the situation - I had been sitting at a creek inlet as the tide rose, and water lapping at the back wheels . . . well I didn't want to reverse into the water.
In the end I turned the car off hoping it would 'forget' the hump; and sure-enough when I restarted and - yes, used more sudden throttle it climbed the tiny bump.
I now have a Ford Kuga/Escape [own] and the torque-converter and transmission hook-up from very low revs and apply all of that bottom end torque - it always applies it's utmost.
Cvt's belong in atv's and side by sides
Toyota makes good CVTs. They feel like a conventional automatic and they’re decently reliable . Never seen one come in to our shop with CVT issues. The worse one I’ve driven was a Nissan Rogue rental. It’s ok in the city but on the highway it was horrible. It was unrefined and I kept on anticipating it to change gear because of the noise so it drove me nuts.
I have a 2013/2014 MY Forester (first year with a CVT) and that CVT is really boring (acceleration and droning sound). You can floor it all the way and the only time RPMs will bounce back is when you reduce pressure on the pedal. Then I got a 2016 Legacy - also 2.5 CVT - but it's more responsive to acceleration and the sound is not droning, a much better engine.
I agree, no cvt for me. I will keep my 2006 Forester with a 5 speed manual, limited slip differential and a differential protection plate. Never been stuck anywhere. Also, too many buttons and computer crap on the new one's.
Glad TFL has a Subaru to test. Most of the world considers Subaru to be the most capable AWD light off-roader, but these cars can’t really compete with a dedicated 4x4 system.
Roman believes that the CVT will cut power when the Subaru loses traction, but TFL has also shown the Jeep renegade and compass (which claim to be 4x4 in the trailhawk versions, not sure about the lesser) also cutting power to protect the drivetrain. Although it’s apparent TFL does not like CVT’s you have to appreciate their Honesty. They also showed a flaw with the Hyundai Kona with dry dual clutch. The transmission practically melted.
Now we know where "Jess" came from. 🤣
I own a 2018 Outback 4 banger and I was able to climb hills as steep is the one they couldn't make it up in the video no sweat, but I do live in NC, a lower elevation area than they do.
And I think that's the main problem. The 4 banger just doesn't have the grunt to offroad in Colorado, you'd need the 6. The CVT transmission people complain about is actually incredible IMO, especially for offroading because it can reprogram itself so to speak. X-Mode IS low range and it's remarkable, and I say this having owned a Wrangler Rubicon before.
I love and appreciate the honesty of why they don’t review Subaru. I’ve been here for years. I love this channel!!
I can't wait to see the off road videos! And wut up Subaru....why you treat TFL like dat?
I've had 3 Subarus first one was just a front drive , with a stick shift. That car was donated to a farm second one was a brand new 2006 impreza wagon, that car went 198000 miles on basic maintenance. It met an untimely demise with a tree. Third one is a legacy sedan with 139000 trouble Free miles. Last two we're used as commuter cars between NYC and New Hampshire
Looking forward to this.
Fwiw, my wife and I had an 05 Outback Limited, loved the car, but were seriously let down by the dealership when the usual head gasket issue arose, still under a dealer purchased extra fully comprehensive warranty, which they would not honor, saying we had been using inferior gas in it, plugging the cats, thus blowing the head gasket. Oh yea.
SO HAPPY about this. I just picked up a 2017 Premium with all the same features as the '18(except the carplay/android auto of course) and for my use case it is the right fit.
Guess you have forgotten about Forrester Gump! Maybe ask Sara to do a road test of her subaru :)
That's a good idea review her car minus the STI badge on the front grill.
This is what I've wanted to see for years watching you guys. I have a Crosstrek and love it. It does well on the beach and "light off-roading". You should do a full gold mine hill, then lift it and put different tires on it and see how it does too.
Paddle shifters are actually helpful in winter driving up here in Colorado especially with the hills, to keep your hands on the wheel and downshift to help you slow down without using the brakes.
The biggest gripe I have with my 2016 Subaru Outback is that the factory Bridgestone Dueller tires are nearly totally worn out by 26,000 miles. And yes, I am very proactive in keeping them inflated properly and rotating them at each oil change. These tires have worn out the fastest of any new vehicle I've ever had. I'm hoping the Michelines that I place back on there get vastly more tread life!
Should've been Susie the Subaru.
Or Sheila the Outback.
I've always loved the fact that the majority of Subarus are AWD and are very reliable. I have thought many times over about getting one but have chosen not to until the TFL embargo is lifted by them. Haha.
Metalbass79 Yeah they aren’t that reliable
Disney Fan I've heard a few gripes about head gaskets after you modify them but other than that thought they were. I used to want a WRX as a play car but I already have a 4x4 F150 and modded Mustang GT. After Subaru pulled away from TFL, I decided I didn't need to give my money to them. After all, it would've been just a toy anyway.
Bought 06 outback turbo start of this summer (127k). The car is a blast to drive, 270 hp, low center of gravity, all wheel drive. I am the second owner. First car I have ever owned. Always had pickups. Clean carfax all the problems are taken care of.
deke441 I've ridden in one of those while in Kenya. It totally impressed me. I've always wondered why they discontinued the Baja. It had the pickup bed but was car sized.
Subaru = Head Gasket Issue.
Subaru’s are great for mountain snow driving, which is why they’re popular where they are, western N.C. is crawling with them, but honestly for anything that isn’t extreme, a skilled driver with good tires can traverse most roads in the snow regardless of their vehicle. I have never been stranded in my Prius C, my dad drives a Cadillac ATS, my brother drives a Mustang and my mom drives a Kia Soul.
I had a 2014 Outback, new, and traded it in this summer for a 2018 Impala. I didn’t go off-road that much but had three dogs I take to trails. I was concerned about the CVT and Subaru’s lack of follow through with recent models that lost massive engine oil. My car might have been spared that issue but it was under 50,000 miles and I was fearful it was coming up. The All Wheel drive was a nice feature and it wasn’t. Twice I had all the tires replaced because of one bad tire. The upholstery was a very terrible match with dogs. I couldn’t clean it. Very surprised on that as Subaru features dogs prominently in commercials. There are many great features but all my needs are met with a roomy sedan, easy to care for interior, and front wheel drive.
Hi, I bought the 2018 Subaru XV in the UK and the engine did not break in fully, until about 2000 miles. When I first got it, Urban MPG was 23mpg, now its 33mpg (average speed of 23mph over 12 miles) and is quicker off the line now. (Plus I repalced the Summer Tyres that came with the car, as they are terrible in the rain, so put on Michwlin CrossCLimate Tyres and they are fantastic in the rain)
I am very interested in these tests, as I'm looking at this very model. Thanks guys!
Hi there. I've had AWD systems in Canadian Winters from Toyota, Nissan and Subaru. The tests on Gold Mine hill are very consistent with my own experience. My point is, AWD always has an extra cost over FWD and usually burns more fuel. It's very important that if you pay the extra, that it works well. TFL does a nice job of seeing where the limits are. As the consumer, you can decide whether that limit is enough for you or not.
Look at the VW golf Alltrack. Has an Audi quality interior and 6 year 72k mile bumper to bumper warranty. It's really quick too. Fun to drive. Much better transmission than the outback, and the VW's AWD is better off-road and in the snow
kkthxk The new models have a 6 year 72k mile bumper to bumper warranty. With an option to extend it to 10 years 150k miles. (My father just did this when he bought a 2018 golf). We've had several VW/Audi products over the years and with proper maintenance they'll run forever.
So Roman basically exposed Subarus for being poser offroad cars and they didn't like that. Gotcha.
Subaru markets thier crossovers as all weather vehicles that are great in winter conditions and for mud and dirt roads. I don't think Subaru ever promoted their cars to be rock crawlers and their not meant to be lifting wheels on off road obstacles.
I'm calling bullshit on that though, ohioguy. I went over some pretty rough terrain in my old FWD 2014 Kia Soul, especially when I drove to Lake Arrowhead or the infamous Slover Ave in Colton, CA. The trail they are using doesn't seem unreasonable for a car marketed as being off road. People need to stop making excuses, it either goes off-road or it doesn't.
I'd say that sums it up
Some older Subaru’s actually had good off road ability, what they sell today is about as capable off road as a Toyota Camry
+Elliot Reindeer - Corect. As I have already said, these "Fast Lane Car" guys are are obvious Subaru haters. In each and every one of their videos they do their best to bias the test and make Subaru look much less capable of what they really are (as it is well known). The huge difference between the performance of any Subaru in the videos of this channel and in any other videos is so clear that anyone must realize that obviously there is an evil animadversion to Subaru, and some kind of hidden inerest. This video, and some comments below it, confirm that.
Congrats to you guys making sure you can cater to even the people in your backyard (Colorado) and finding away to bring content to all of us. Flagstaff AZ has quite a few Subaru’s as well and while I’m not a huge fan of their cars. It will be a nice long term review and maybe you guys can repair your relationship with them.
currently i own subaru 2015 outback and 2018 jeep wrangler sahara jl. in my driving experienced, when does met wet, icy and bad weather on road, subaru outback is best option. then on a off road, of course wrangler is best.
If you are going to lift wheels, turn off VDC, a button down on the left. Subaru equivalent of locking diff. Also necessary to get up steep slippery snowy or icy areas.
I live in the mountains of West Virginia and my 2015 Outback 3.6R (with CVT) has never let me down in the snow or the off-road trails.
#1. Hill climb test. From your last failed driving attempt at the hill climb, did you read the comments that you should've tried turning OFF the traction control? Turning OFF traction control will not cut power and will let the tires spin (speaking of tires, the stock tires are NOT made for that type of off-roading). Although you guys have the 4 cylinder instead of the 6 cylinder, so....
#2. CVT. I don't know why most people harp on the CVT, it works wonderfully and does what it should. No, it is not sport tuned because this is not a sports car, just like so many other conventional automatic transmissions that are not sport tuned because they are not in sports cars. But I do like a sportier reacting transmission so I am using an aftermarket tune to sharpen up the response of my CVT, I like the factory CVT tune, I love my aftermarket CVT tune.
Yeah, it would be interesting to see if they had turned it off.
I remember when Subaru bailed 'because the paint got scratched'. Honestly, I think they were simply avoiding bad PR because you exposed how bad it actually was off-road. Can't wait for the full reviews!
Hooray! I own a lifted 2013 Subaru Outback 2.5I Premium. What I predict you'll find is that you love the car overall, but you'll wish the engine had a bit more grunt and that the all-seasons leave much to be desired off-road.
You guys put a 2" lift kit by ADF and some Yokohama Geolandar G015's on there if you want to wake it up off-road. :)
Thanks for the suggestion. Very much appreciated!
ROMAN.. Get over your Subbie vendetta, drive it as it should be driven on paved roads and streets in or out of snow. Then lets hear your criticism about being underpowered and CVT hatred. Outback is a fine practical everyday driver that gets X-lent gas mileage for a 3600 pound wagon.
Yasir I used to average 28.5, now I get about 25. Still better than my old Jeep!
Norm T infotainment is a weakness of Subaru, even on mine. Bluetooth is finicky, but that's the worst thing about the car, so I'll still call it a win. Double Din with Nav upgrade for mine soon.
I'd love to see you do this!
We just had a female Australian Shepherd in the family pass away this week her name was Josie.
Keep up the great work!
My family has a car with a CVT transmission and it works just fine. We have no complaints. In fact I like it better than a regular transmission because you don’t feel the shifts. I find it amusing that people have an issue with these transmissions.
No issues with my 2018 Subaru Crosstrek. No problems with the CVT either. Its a wonderful car.
TFL and Savagegeese are the 2 You Tube vehicle reviewers I watch regular.The others come across as fanboys or simply a commercial for the vehicle they're reviewing.Keep up the good work.
Best part about your channel. Honest, unbiased reviews! Even with what Subaru did to you guys I know we will receive a true, honest review of this car. Side note: Subaru harps on their “adventurous” demeanor of their vehicles and they were upset you took it off-road and it got scratched. Wow.....
So basically, Subaru was salty??!? Smh
This is great guys! Great effort to get a brand that has not been reviewed in a long time by TFL, only downside is I see way more crosstreks nowadays lol
Shame that it has to come to you guys buying a Subaru. The way subaru has treated you guys always weights in my mind when thinking about vehicle purchases.
The 2.5L is not that powerful, so up hill offroading can be problematic. At low speed, it's mainly an automatic in the sense of having a torque converter. You'll get some revs, some power output, and that's it. Subaru doesn't have a low range. The CVT has a reasonable gearing range but not tremendous. Frankly, you'll just run out of power. This seems common among a lot of offroad reviews of Subarus with the small na engine. They just don't have the power and gearing ratio necessary. I have a modern Legacy with the 3.6L, and frankly that's just adequate for a vehicle this size. The little 2.5L is ok for general putzing around, but you really need more if your actually trying to do more aggressive things. Personally, I haven't found any problem with the CVT and poor traction. With it fully enabled, it works as expected, but I don't find it overly aggressive. It just doesn't want a bunch of wheel spin. You can hold the button and partially disable it, and then it will allow some spin (up to a point) and let you throw a little snow, dirt, etc. The system works pretty well overall and does seem to use the grip available. The big issue is power and gearing. There's only so much there. You might want to blame the CVT, but that's not correct. It's still an auto and still initially managed through a torque converter. You're only going to get so much from the car from a stop, and that's the big limitation. You simile won't have the power to make it go, and the gearing and torque converter stall won't be high enough to give you all that much torque at the wheels. This isn't a traction control problem. It's a problem of mechanical work and available power. For offroading, the 3.6L would have been the better choice, although the price difference is quite moderate. As well, buying the 2.5L is more appropriate for what most people buy. A lot fewer opt for the 3.6L due to the high price difference.
Yep, my 3.6r eats off road trails with no problem. Took it down a 4x4 trail in Utah a couple of months ago totally stock, had no issues. The 4 cylinder is underpowered for how large of a vehicle it is.
I own one and X-Mode IS low range as it changes the CVT to an entirely different mode. When it's engaged, it's night and day, and I say that having owned a Wrangler Rubicon before. I was able to climb hills as steep is the one they couldn't make it up in the video no sweat, but I do live in NC, a lower elevation area than they do.
And I think that's the main problem. The 4 banger just doesn't have the grunt to offroad in Colorado.
I wish I could find documentation on the actual gearing mapping of the X-Mode. All I've ever found was a small marketing graph showing it only holds the min gearing ratio in the CVT over a much longer rpm range and lets you use as much engine as possible within the ratio scope the CVT offers. The little graphic does not show that ratio to be any lower than standard mode, only that it holds the bottom ratio longer through the rev range.
pictures.dealer.com/s/stanleysubarusne/1210/f9a567c19d587b45c971d9345c6ee737x.jpg
I've seen no other reference to gearing ratios besides this graphic.
Yep, I saw that too. It's hard to find a lot of information on the tech inside a lot of Subarus stuff. I know the CVT was changed a bit in 2018 too, but don't really know what exactly, other than it was quiter and supposedly better offroad.
The reality is, CVTs are great. They are great for scooters. Great for fuel efficiency. Also, great for failing before the rest of the vehicle. So great for profit. To all you CVT haters out there, they are great!
Subaru made a huge mistake by discontinuing the 6MT Forester. With the proper offroad tires, I’ve done some great offroading with my jeep buddies in rural WV and VA.
korling99 blame the market. No one wants 6MT.
FYI, the 6-speed manual Forester is still available in Canada. If you are serious about getting one, you better hurry up before they are all gone because the 2019 Foresters will not be available in stick-shift transmissions at all world-wide. How sad!
CVT transmissions are actually good, I used to own 2008 Nissan Altima with CVT, and the transmission was amazingly soft and smooth and if you used to it you will feel a headache when you ride in a car with standard transmission, especially when you ride in American car with rear wheel drive, the transmission is usually rough and clunky.
2nd crosstrek owner. these vehicles are great for our West Texas family. The engine is a bit of a dog, but otherwise a smooth comfortable ride. Not much in the way of hills out here, but great for dirt roads and day to day driving. Really love eyesight also. Will be interested in how the Outback does.
25K is a super price for not being a base model .
Subarus are overrated cars in my opinion. They usually start falling apart by 160,000 kms (100k miles) mechanically and structurally here in Montreal with the harsh conditions. Subarus here are quite popular and the owners are overly proud of their car, to the point where they put much more money into them than the car is worth. Usual suspects include head gaskets, ring lands, blown turbos and rotten structural components on the more common models. Even from new, many engines have considerable oil consumption (well documented). Ever since Toyota bought shares, Subarus have gotten progressively more tame and boring to drive, with numb steering and soft suspension. The older AWD system on manual models was tremendous in the snow but the newer electromagnetic coupling on the CVT models is comparable to the average "slip-n-go" systems offered by the competition.
I am a long time Subaru fan but they have lost me. What they did to TFL is wrong. The CVT has killed their cars. Subaru had to move to CVT to compete with other cars gas mileage but they also have to program them for fuel efficiency. Why do you think a Subaru Legacy is more than 3 seconds slower to 60 than a Nissan Altima? Same HP, Torque and both have CVT's. Subaru has neutered their cars and don't care about the sports car market anymore. What a shame!
Interesting I get so many crappy non-inspiring Subaru ads on TH-cam that I can't wait to click "Skip" on but they never want to lend cars to automotive TH-cam channels where those channels would then make watchable content with their cars as opposed to their unwatchable ads...
Long time viewer, first time poster. I have a 15 Outback 3.6R and love it. Biggest complaint is the stock wheel size limits good tires. Went down a size and have Geolander AT and it has made a huge difference. Between the larger engine, the tires and the great AWD system it hasn't failed me yet. It's not a truck, which should be obvious, but for a wagon it's great. Recently took it to AZ and did parts of the outlaw trail, got a bit stuck a few times but with a reapproach never really slowed down. Looking forward to seeing some more challenging terrain you put it through.
boarder0408 *H6* Subaru’s don’t have V engines.
DanScoob My fault on misrepresenting the cylinder configuration, updated
I've taken mine off road several times without issue. Only used X-Mode once to get uphill in icy-snow. Again, stock tires are horrendous. My all seasons are M/S rated Michelin. Basically the highest rated suv/light truck tired available for the Outback. Almost look like snow tires but are better for rain.
I have a '13 2.5 with CVT, and I offroad it pretty often. I was absolutely astonished in the videos I saw here. My subaru doesn't have this "x mode" and it has ZERO issues going through trails and up hills MUCH more challenging than shown here. I do dislike the cvt it's boring and such, but it has enough umph in first/second for offroad. I used to have a pretty built up jeep XJ that I beat the hell out of, and I'm amazed everytime I'm offroad in the subaru about how much it can handle in comparison.
Love TFL videos, Coloradans doing it right. Please balance the music. I am constantly adjusting music volume down and voice volume up.
Check the battery that comes with that Subaru. Mine came from the factory with a very small capacity battery that is only marginally acceptable. I.E. it 'will' start the car but if you accidentally leave the lights on (headlights, park lights, or dome lights) for even a small time without the car running, you'll not have enough battery left to start the car. It's happened to me 3 times during my two+ years of owning my 2016 Outback. I'm going to replace the factory battery with a MUCH larger capacity battery!
Want power when the ECU is pulling it? Pull the 7.5 amp stop block fuse in the block under the steering wheel. Do this while your in drive and the ECU won't be able to stop you. Youll also get a heap of warning lights + shitloads of wheelspin - But it wont stop you!
please, compare it to other AWD crossovers (rav4, Rogue, CRV...) in the same conditions
I have been driving Subaru for almost 20 years now. I drove in snow, rain uphill or downhill...l was and am so much happy with this car. So this is one experience that l am not going to change my mind. I remember pulling my neighbors out of their house in 1 meter snow to give them a ride for work. They were driving other nice cars that l don’t want to mention here.. so happy to be a Subaru fan..sorry
Subaru is doing these guys a great disservice not loaning them vehicles to review. Colorado is an insanely huge market for Subaru and since TFL is based in Colorado it only makes sense. I’m looking forward to their yearlong review, as a new Subaru Outback owner myself.
I am looking forward to buy a Subaru Impreza, I wasn't sure about the CVT but now I am pretty sure about buying the manual transmission. Thank you guys. Nice work as always.
I am so glad you guys are finally going to review another Subaru!!!
I absolutely love my '18 Crosstrek. I don't do much of anything in the way of real off-roading though. But for a daily driver, it's great for me. Can't wait for winter!
Subaru totally over reacted with you guys scratching up their review car. I really hope you guys can mend the relationship. As a '17 Forester owner I can't wait to see what is to come. A lot of Subaru guys would argue they are offroad vehicles because of the AWD but they are not meant for much more than mild trails to the camp site. They're jack of all trades, masters of none. They're built for practicality and budget minded folks. I'm okay with that; that's why I like my Forester. It does everything well and was cheap at $25k for premium package. Can't wait for the vids!
My wife wanted a Crosstek, but it was too slow. Now she wants a Volvo XC40, which drives better and is more fun. I'm curious how these compare off the beaten path.
RT S Thats a nice car but it would cost me £8000 more than I what i paid for my Subaru. (I love Volvo cars, had them in the past but Subaru could not be beaten on price for proper AWD (not this front to back AWD you see on most cars these days), Android Auto & Adaptive Cruise.)
Car Salesman: **Slaps roof of car** This bad boy can fit so much car reviewers in it
I really liked the sequence shots like when you started the engine. AND you guys took it off road!
I was getting ready to trash this Subaru until I saw the adjusting headrests. Very interesting. My biggest complaints about cars these days is the protruding headrests in almost all of them. I can’t get comfortable in one. Honda Accord, Mazda CX-5 … Hyundai… you name it. I have to recline the seatback further back which I don’t like and don’t feel in good control of the vehicle, and if I adjust the seatback to be more upright, which I like, then the headrest just pushes my head forward causing neck pain. This was not a problem prior to 2008/2009 model year for cars. I think there is a Federal law that requires them to be much closer to the head, but now they are just too close and uncomfortable. I’m starting to look to buy older cars just to get comfortable.
I still have my 15 outback. Runs like a champ. Gonna own her til its beyond economically repairable. I figure ill hit 200k miles maybe more?
I had a 2008 outback turbo 5 speed automatic. It's one of the last few Subarus to use limited slip differentials aside from the WRX. It also had traction and stability control it would have made it up that little hill no problem. I know its a cost cutting thing but nowadays Subarus rely on open differentials and brakes instead LSD's. I guess mass market customers wont know or care about the loss of capability.
I take away that people generally ignore for convenience's sake two facts :
1. Subaru does not build off road vehicles. These are 4WD vehicles able to tackle light offroading. The all-wheel drive (and adjacent drive and even power-train) is built for slippery roads, that's it.
2. Not all CVTs are equal. Having driven both Subarus CVTs (small one for 2.0 N/A and big one for 2.0 turbo engine), I am loathsome of a standard 6- or 7-speed. So uncivilised... so... cluncky. And for the mudgobblers, see 1.
TFL has a history of not being the most knowledgeable when it comes to the cars they are reviewing and their history with Subaru is no different. Nothing really wrong with this most of the time, in fact it's kind of nice to see an average Joe car review, but when you continually try to traverse less than ideal trails you need to know a thing or two about what you're driving. EG: taking Foresters up very snowy hills on all-season tires and almost losing the vehicle off the side of a mountain as well as not properly utilizing VDC, on or off, when a vehicle clearly needs some throttle and potential wheel spin/momentum. I'm sure these accounts factored into Subaru's decision to stop giving TFL cars. When a reviewer isn't aware of all the vehicle's settings and how to use them when on FAR from ideal road conditions combined with getting cars stuck in weather conditions and trails the vehicle isn't meant to traverse in the stock form it reflects poorly on the manufacturer especially when viewers don't know any better. You think Jeep would continue to give a reviewer Wrangler Rubicons, let alone any car, if they continued to take the vehicle on trails that could be driven by a knowledgeable driver, but the reviewer didn't know how to utilize 4 wheel drive or lockers? No, they wouldn't because it reflects poorly on the vehicle and the brand due the uniformed reviewer.
Yikes, So many words to say nothing.
Apparently reading comprehension is also not a skill of TFL...
It must have something to do with elevation. The new Subaru with xmode is the most capable car they've ever made. I've got a 17 Forester and as long as you've got clearance it seems to be effortless through anything I've encountered so far. Can't wait for these reviews!
Super excited to watch this. This car has been on my radar for a long time and this will help me with next purchase.
You got a bargain! I have this same model in a 2016. It appears they level stanced the car more in '18. I think the cvt is great. Conventional autos feel old to me. I'm not rock climbing though. Paddle shifter is great for downshifting in regular Drive mode for engine braking. It autonomously goes back into regular mode That's all I ever use it for. Driver seat back comfort is my biggest complaint.
My Patreon money well spent!😀
Looking forward to seeing this CUV put through its paces. And good job picking the 4-cylinder over the V-6; should be more representative of the whole Subaru fleet.
I have a 98' outback with a lift kit and 5 speed manual trans. It has over 400,000 miles on it and I off-road every week. I wonder why they don't build awesome basic cars anymore...
When the Outback was brand new in 2015 and they were just getting to dealerships they took $4,000 off via email quote. Sticker on mine was $28,400 and I got it for $24,200+tax. Had $9,000 down and they matched Chase Bank 1.5% APR for 60. Incredibly slow car and incredibly boring when there isn't snow but great for trips with the dogs, to the range, etc. Stock tires are utter garbage, bought blizzaks and became a tank. Gas mileage on hills and higher altitude is 22 city and 29 highway.
The Outback does okay cruising up our road in the winter, much better than my Raptor. Now with that said, I can't imagine it doing well on Gold Mine Hill rd but look forward to the results.
Wasn't there time for TFL to just get a polish on the car you damaged?
And how can a dealership have the code for YOUR garage?
It’s not a dealership. The brokers who provide the vehicles through the automaker. They had a garage code. This way, they could swap cars with us in a convenient way. It’s was Subaru’s decision to remove the vehicles.
I never got why people think Subaru’s are actually any good off road. Their diffs are weak and completely unable to transfer torque from side to side. And yet so many fanboys everywhere.
Wont get rid of my Tribeca because it has the bullet proof 5AT. Also have a 15 FXT. CVT blew a seal at the pump around 50k miles.
What - a base 2.5 in Colorado, not a H6? Are you nuts? We first bought a 2.5 Outback in Oklahoma, and it was adequate on the muddy roads and mild hills here. First time in Colorado up the IKE Gauntlet on the way to Breckenridge, it was a total dog. So we bought a 2.5 turbo Outback XT. Awesome choice with all the power you need for any pass and a normal automatic transmission (5EAT) with no stupid CVT transmission to ruin a steep trail climb. CVT and AWD trails don't mix, so I won't buy a newer model Subaru until they give them up.
I test drove a few Subaru’s, not bad kind cheap, and the outdated Boxer motor ran out of breath over 40mph. Went with a Civic EX-T. Awesome car and cheaper than an Impreza!
What about your Subaru Crosstrek from last year?
Going to suck if the same thing happens again as did 5 years ago, likely because the 4 cyl CVT is less robust than in the 3.6R engine (be interesting to see how the 2019 Ascent would fair). Anyways if so, Subaru'll likely continue to embargo on TFL. 🤦🏻♀️ Odd, because Subaru's AWD is always rated higher than AWD systems implemented in other small CUVs (Honda CRV/HRV, Mazda CX3/5, Toyota RAV4, Ford Escape, Nissan Rogue). 🤔
I remember that video. Can't believe it's been five years
I would love to see this vehicle reviewed against comparable all wheel drive SUV’s/wagon’s. I own a 2016 Mitsubishi Outlander SAWC. Bought it specifically over Subaru due to price, seating capacity, and warranty. I would love to see some Subaru vs Mitsubishi videos!
50 down votes from Subaru of America, so I'm giving it an up vote. Roll on lads! BTW I owned a brand new 2002 WRX in manual. After 3 months it got more and more difficult to select reverse. I got to a point that you could only get it in reverse if you rolled forwards in first gear for a few feet, so you had to be very careful when you parked to leave some room in front. That car went back to the dealership 4 times (Subaru in DC) and I was told this is normal, which it was definitely not. Ended up selling it a year later with less that 8K on the clock, and since that piss-poor experience we will never buy a Subaru again.
I had a similar experience with a Subaru dealer in Pennsylvania. They told my wife her car needed a clutch at 30,000 miles and it was going to cost $3,000! I took it to another Subie dealer in Jersey and they found no issues with it. We ended up keeping it for another 7 years and put 100,000 miles on it still with no clutch replacement. What I'm trying to say is some dealerships are scum bags and it has nothing to do with the manufacturer of the car. A good dealership, no matter the brand, should have and would have fixed your car with no problem.
The CVT is the only thing stopping me from buying one of these right now. Why can't they do a manual or even a traditional torque converter auto?
Can't wait for y'all to put it through its paces.