All the Terrans play testing (e.g. Clem, Spirit) are sand bagging to make people think that everything is okay and this patch should go through. Don't believe their scam.
This felt like clem was practically sandbagging, no early game tank push, no raven, generally bad micro early game and less multitasking. Not world champ clem
Gotta love how they gave a bullshit cooldown to the energy overcharge, yet Terran can just spam Orbital Command buildings to use infinite Mule drops and scans all the way into the late game. The balance council is doing their best to pretend they're trying to help Protoss, by only giving the opportunity for mana refills once every 60 seconds. Real solution: no cooldown. Give Protoss the ability to scale into the late game with lots of Nexuses, and strengthen their casters to give legitimate offense or defense into the late game. The ability is worthless otherwise.. Protoss will remain in a weakened state without this.
Is it just me or is Clem playing terribly this game? Not even taking Astrea into account, the pushes are weird, micro is off, and what are those compositions?
Astrea has been playing this style for years and it's definitely stronger in a vacuum if you can get to this point with a decent early-mid game. Obviously clem wanted to try out BF hellions this patch.
@@PiGstarcraft Haha anyway, they were just trying out things. Just funny that every protoss is mourning right now about the patch and Astrea beats the world champ easily here^^
Not to mention, you may not realize this, but this makes it so that positions where libs are out of range of ground units to harass workers pretty much nonexistent. I am sure the pro protoss players really prefer this lib to the old one. As a Terran I would much rather have the old lib.
@@kaiser2261 terran has very hard counters to lurkers and tempests. protoss in particular do not have a hard counter to libs. the unit is already broken vs protoss and buffing it is just one more in a long list of 'fu' to all toss players
Before I watch the video, just what I would do as Clem: Lose the game. Because the patch is insanly good for Terran. And the last thing you want as a Terran is to get any changes. So it would be very smart to lose the game. That reduces the risk of changes to the patch significantly. Appear to be weak when you are strong. Still true in 2024.
Hopefully Protoss comes out with a net positive from this patch when it's finalized, because Xel'naga knows the Protoss need help badly at the highest levels of the game. When's the last time any Protoss won anything significant? It's a joke at this point how piss poor Gateway units are in lategame vs. basic Terran and Zerg units. I can't believe they still haven't given Zealots something like increased damage upon first strike when they charge in. Just anything to help balance the scales a little bit.
Charge lots were nerfed on front end damage because they were strong in the early game. I'd like to see changes to rarely used units first. Void ray, mother's hip is still 8seless. Carriers are crap, even tempest change is useless, since they can't survive still....
If Clem didnt play LAN and Serral didnt play LAN and Maxpax did play LAN, what do you think the tournament results would look like for Toss? They would literally win everything.
Disruptor damage halved... even with a small radius increase, seems a nerf at first glance. It really depends on the target; are we trying to hit some marines/ghost, or trying to delete stationary siege tanks/buildings? (what's this about nerfing static gameplay?) Tempest: remains to be seen. Less range, but less supply. But due to less range, less cost-efficient vs viking. Protoss nexus energy overcharge: still prone to being removed half a second later by a random EMP. (or, for high templar, snipe e.g.) Immortal nerf: wtf. Protoss already has not many cannons for their glass cannon units. And less production often than equivalent Terran or Zerg. Plus, whilst Immortals might counter at low numbers, they can get recked in bigger fights. We're nerfing passive gameplay. Here's salvage on towers, and a radius increase on liberators, oh, and they benefit from smart servos now too. And you can insta-heal your supply depot. Liberator radius increase: on some maps, will make it very difficult indeed to move around the circle with e.g. queens (now more expensive...) or even Stalkers. Compare the radius increase for the disruptor, vs the Thor splash. And yes, Thor loses range in this mode, but still. They could have buffed disruptor or rebalanced it with different damage at different splash distances. We're nerfing static gameplay. Here's stronger broodlords. It's weird tbh. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Not much truly creative for Protoss besides the Nexus. Something like giving adepts with glaives an anti-air attack e.g., give Colossus a bonus vs sieged up or burrowed units maybe, give Immortals anti-air maybe. (Protoss is only race without mobile gass-less anti-air). To make Colossus/Immortal a bit more difficult: add an active ability to these units; maybe.
Biggest buff to protoss is if you can give energy to command centers, you can now spend 400 minerals to give your ally 2 mules every minute to hard carry
one reason ppl are pissed is that not only did protoss get nerfed hard but the terran buffs directly comtradict the stated goal of making ealry agression stronger. They buffed libs, Turrents (salvage) and actually give supply depos an instant heal.
Astrea´s Oracle was deflected asap, so energy wasn´t helpful. Why did Clem retreated in minute 4? 2 cyclones and a bunch of marines would have ended the game in his favor, that would have crushed astrea as there is no way to defend against that, not even with Battery overcharge. The ideas are good, but removing B overcharge is not the solution, Needs to be reworked, maybe. E Overcharge is a good idea, but can just target 1 unit, and has a 60s CD, no way it is viable. Lets suppouse you are out of energy because an EMP disabled all of your units, plus removed all the shields. You recharge 1 single unit to defend against a whole army, but then instantly again another EMP lands and you have to wait another 60 minutes to use the skill.... if you have some energy left in your nexus of course, because EMP affects units and structures. In the case you are figthing against Z, you use sentries to block the enemy´s army or to create a viable terrain to fight. 1 ravager can destroy the force field, with a skill that does not require energy and has a cooldown of 7s..... And storm just does not do any dmg to units as most of them are tanky and or can walk away on creep so fast that they take almost no dmg, even if they hold position on storm it would take 3 to 4 storms to kill roaches, ravagers, lurkers and other units. Using E Overcharge impacts directly on worker production and upgrades, so in order to "defend" you must use that energy, and instantly you are behind in income and production. To be honest, this match looks like was set up. Clem is just taking his time and playing with his food, while astrea struggles to survive. This patch just does not work.
@@PiGstarcraft Sadly the mentioned negative effects come from 1 single change in Protoss. There are another 3 changes that have a negative impact on the race too. And the other 3 are just irrelevant.
Clem didn't push with his cyclones and marines because he has a brain, unlike you, and wants to check out other changes in the game too. And you basically just want to see protoss losing to prove they're weak
@@litlgenjinie2927 wow, clearly someone got angry, and threw a very coherent and fundamented argumen. It's a VS, not a "Test". It's clearly started in the Title of the video. And the point it's not to know "why" it's rethoric, the point is to show that Astrea had no chance to hold against that attack. Cheers!
Now whichever pro is first to do builds around rushing high templar with storm/warp prism drops, instead of DT, will be looking like a genious. Just charge up first two or three templars with energy and destroy opponents worker lines in beginning to mid game ⚡🌩️⚡-RUSH!!! ftw...
Playing or watching? Because playing the game the changes to P are good since P is super dominant on the ladder. Watching is less so, but we will wait and see
Oh come on balance council, the ghost is clearly weak in this game. We need to fix it by merging EMP and Snipe and half the cooldown. I think adding siege mode to the ghost will also help stop camping playstyles especially if we make nuke a cooldown ability. Can we also add a "fly all buildings to the corner of the map" button to help stop flying buildings to the corner of the map playstyle. Oh and buff the widowmine and cyclone and nurf zerg and protoss, just make sure the patch notes say the opposite and no one will ever know. Thanks guys, great job.
Pig people are mad because it's actually beyond a joke at this point and everyone cares about the game as much as top players, it isn't just 'whine' when they are upset. it's appalling the way everyone knows terran is very favored vs p and also to a lesser extent vs z (55% winrate at gm for t vs z when i checked and some maps are 60%+). everyone knows ghosts are the main issue in both matchups, but there are no changes to ghosts. everyone knows terran camping is the main issue with the camping, but they get only buffs to their camping tools and other tools no one asked for too, they don't need a supply depot overcharge, they don't need to be able to salvage their 100 turrets when they decide they camped long enough and both of these changes along with the lib change very obviously are against the suggested theme of the patch. just like last time when it was 'we want to improve p vs t' then they buff bio timings and nerfed distruptors and made cyclones a free win. terran once again get a bunch of new toys but protoss lose their best tool because its 'frustrating'? no, ghosts, libs , scans and mules and playing against terrans that do unpunishable mmm every single game are what is frustrating and they all get untouched or buffed over and over. The only explanation is the council is incredibly biased against protoss and in favour of terran and it is 100% intentional to shaft toss and make clem and maru win everything OR they are all total idiots. since some of the smartest rts players are on that council what is the obvious answer? That is why people are mad because we aren't stupid, barely invested whiners. we are the community and playerbase of a 14 year old game we all have invested untold amounts of time, energy and emotion into and are watching it be ruined by a bunch of people who are clearly biased toward terran and who are clearly shouting down everyone else on the balance committee. not to call him out but for an example Uthermal recently said to his viewers protoss is favoured vs terran on current patch. hes not stupid, it's intellectual dishonesty and everyone can see it.
This reads like an emotional overreaction, what context does it even have to the video? Astrea won, and the new energy recharge has turned out to be incredibly useful unlike what the community predicted so why be so angry? Let's wait out and see more data before jumping to conclusions.
@@tiredtraveler4536 im confused why you are asking that when in the first 30 seconds of the video pig has asked for people to say why they are mad. maybe watch a video before trolling the comments.
Yea but ppl like pig and this tiredtraveler guy will try to gaslight you and dismiss your opinions. If you disagree with them it's all of a sudden "vitriol" and your "mad and emotional". Pig can also somehow tell you have a stutter from reading your posts online 😂. I stopped playing starcraft a long time ago because it's unbalanced and ppl like this don't want it balanced.
I tested today and the energy overcharge ability doesn't work on a nexus or a battery. According to patch notes it should be applicable to structures as well.
one click and 20 supply and 2k resources of specialist detection and light ground targeting unit is rendered useless by one lone unit that costs 2 supply and has 10 specialist uses and can be used to beat close to 100% of army comps in the game, oh and it was invisible so the only counterplay was what? have observers with every group of units you make? why was observer made easy to see, but ghost isnt. ghost can nuke your whole base among 10 other strong uses. observer sees things. why did observer deserve a nerf, but not ghost.
@@verdibyrd Cool, that just means the rest of terran units (such as most mech) is trash if ghost is needed to fill that specialist role. Terrans would be happy to receive a ghost nerf if anything other than MMM wasn't so bad.
At the very start, Clem gives a reaper and 2 marines for free, and the he refuses to push into 1 energyless oracle and 1 adept.... Not even trying a drop. Thats is definetly NOT a way to try the biggest protoss change, the battery.
As a Protoss player. Our early game defense is boo boo now. No mothership core, no battery overcharge and immortal nerf ! Wish we can adepts buff , stalker dps (10% faster ) and observer moves faster ,
People are bad at communicating? Im so confused. They're communicating very clearly. To be clear: Terran has an enourmous amount of options that diversify its play and allow opportunities for micro, that allow it to recover in situations where it should be dead. This makes it imbalanced as the other races dont have those options. On top of that it has been given an overall hard numbers buff. This is obviously extremely irritating.
Yeah, I was worried about the lack of shield overcharge against terran and roach all ins, but seeing the potential of oracles in the early game, maybe it will be ok.
Clem lacking tanks with a abiltiy to zone out easy snipes, ot protect his bio lines, is kind of missing, so templars had more access. Protoss did look hot this match.. I htink the MB wasn't rebuilt because its hp total was not the same. It was a pretty good game. Hellions looked hell=-a scary... more scary than adepts, so I think this should be nerfed... how the attack works is its made into 4 nodes. The Flame damage should do max damage, two units and hte last two units of damage does, 0 light damage.. or. 25% 3 node, and 50% 4 node. so the fire damage scales down.. that instant fry in a total line was a bit strong...Change its dmage radius more but hellions looked ot strong, but astrea was building in expecting hellions because its a new ptr, and he went tempest sbecause he knew valkrie reportings will come.. The only imbalance I can remember from valkeryie was its rate of fire, so a cluster of htem have insane dps... was never angry at its damage or range.... the tip radius is effective, I get it trying ot get rid of the untouchable air unit in siege mode is insane...
@eshwarprasad9218 great. All the people that reviewed the patch agree with me. And i stick to my statement. Obesity the new Meta is hashed out, protoss will lag behind still. Even farther than they do now.
High templar rush is extremely strong with the energy regen. The balance council didnt sell that ability enough, sentries were the most meh unit to showcase it.
The problem with SBO is the cooldown is too short. Ability doesnt need to be removed, just increase the CD, and maybe increase the energy cost. Would be cool to keep the energy recharge part though so they can do both things.
You are correct my friend at last some one who say the truth, all this Toss show they where nerfed is the total opposite , blizz always loved his favorite race protoss😅 and dark elfes in wc3TFT but remember this is a test patch, I believe they will remove many of this "buffs" T and Z recieve and they will maintain and even buffing even more the protoss to the skys remember my words, the spam of storm , stasis , and many cheap spells and magic and wizard smiling after all of this the only good thing I see is see it like this blizz at the momment are not so greedy I see this : I will start with Z is they are trying to give a nerfed veeeeeeeeeery greedy new "dark swarm" to zerg ,before they where "invincible" under the cloud the protoss will spam storms and "Tempest balls" to kill lurkers hydra comps, the anti air cloud resist -50% ground damage.The tempest is like the lurker of zerg and the LIB of terrans. microbial shroud reduced -50% air damage tenpest lvl0 does 40 normal (20 to a hidra) hidra hp:90hp they create that buff "slide" supposely to run from storm (-spd nerf a little) hidra without microbial die in 3 shots with microbial 5😅 lets see if this is going to work , in the terran side the best defense T have to contain Protoss balls is with libs + bioball becose blizz know pross will start to use the same tempest ground range 10 and air range13 (in new patch) terrans will struggle a lot to kill the tempest behind GIANT protoss balls , "bc operational" to expensive thats why they remain the ghost becose they help to combat powerfull protoss casters ,emp was the same as bw and nobody complain in those years 0 energy 0 shielfs period , I think the lib got the adventage on range 13 air and 10 ground they dont need to stop to shoot is a dumb unit, terrans and P they are a siege unit to contain protoss balls, lurker and libs both have a disadventage they need to stop and plant like a s. tank that is so dominant by the protoss side carriers ms protect the tempest with a mined field of stasis spam, storms, feedback spam, graviton beams, and all that wil bring "magic wars" depending on the skills of the player to face 1v1 do you realize thats why in T and Z sides bLizz knows that always since the genesis of this game protss all time have the range advantage and the dominant distance power to not stop to shoot unlike T and Z does in this patch what they are doing is playing the protoss game to kills faster lib tranformations and lurker burrowing that takes micro is slow and many are loose in the way a smart toss will take adventage of that with focus fire exterminating Z and T units 1 by 1and while doing mass aoe pvt for me now is 65P% v 45T adventage in favor of a smart protoss hand. Justice for all
you were talking complete nonsense about the motherships previous and patched attack. 8:40 according to the patch notes, it was 6 beams x 6 dmg = 36, it will be 4 beams x 6 dmg x 4 target = 96!
Every arm chair grandmaster (in reality barely gold league) coming out of the woodworks to cry about the new patch. Even the pros don’t know how all the changes shake out yet, but these dudes take one look at lib range nerf and radius buff and complain one way or another. Yes, maybe lib radius is too big now, or maybe libs no longer having the better range means they show up in a lot less games. Maybe disruptor decreased damage is terrible, or maybe the increased area makes up for it. Maybe things nobody is even paying any attention to are what prove to be the most unbalanced of all. At this point, Pig doesn’t know, Clem doesn’t know. Astrea doesn’t know, or Dark, or Serral, or Maru or any other pro player. Which means certainly neither I, nor any of you numbnuts know.
They have been testing this for ages, they dont just make numbers and abilitys up. It's only just gone public and put on the public test realm. Viewers and players fron bromze to gm can see the results, playstles and units. Sure people might not have the answers or understand the problems entirely but they can see things like ghosts being very strong and say ghosts are too strong. Balance council ignored this completely and focused on.... salvage. Historically people said snipe needed a nurf and they were right, investors were too strong and they were right. Void rays were as well. This patch we ignored all that and buffed the missile turret...
@@danarr3787 Yeah, and for every 1 thing the average person gets right, they get 9 wrong. Doesn't feel like a good track record. All I'm saying is: wait, see, THEN judge. Not the other way around.
@darylbas8216 Absolutely, you are right in that. It is very hard to see the true impact changes have because of the variables and mind games and cheese ect. Either way can still like them or hate them. ❤️ I do like the energy buff mechanic.
I see that the Protoss indeed got significantly buffed with the 100 energy thing, yet I remember every whiner was in fact complaining about how the thing is a net nerf LOL, even those pretending to be neutral/objective said it's questionable or net nerf. But spamming stasis is just an insanely difficult strategy to counter in early and mid games because Ravens are both very costly and easy to die due to their slow movement speed. Scans are too costly in early/mid game as well. Spamming statis, reveal, storm in late game is also very hard to counter. I don't like to whine like the toss and zerg players constantly do, but it's a clear fact that the stasis ward thing actually encourages Protoss to play more defensively in early games and even the best Terran in the world couldn't make early game exciting at all. This is obviously against Balance team's stated goals. I highly suspect this particular change will be at least partially rolled back. Reading the comments I just lost faith in any objectivity of Protoss players LOL. The incessant whining and bias is just insane.
Let’s not jump to conclusions lol. This was just be game and Clem is clearly not trying his hardest here. It’s definitely a nerf for ladder toss, which is good, but for the pros we need to wait and see. Harstem said he thinks it’s a good change in the right direction but still a overall nerf.
Yall spam widow mines and spam mules and spam stim. To fix spamming the hierarchy goes as follows. Zerg > Terran > Protoss. Zergs rank #1 spammer Terran ranks #2 spammer Toss ranks #3 spammer. To fix spam you fix 1-2 first before addressing #3 or you can go to the grocery store and buy some spam either way. You terrans and zergs earned it! Enjoy!
The problem is the early atack zerg and terran. Dont have time and resources to storm. Maybe 1 o 2 oracles (to weak ) but if go to 2 oracle you dont have gate units. Minute 4:30/5 all ins. And this nerf force to open stargate couse inmortal is nerfed (useless: eliminate robo opening) and no time to storm(eliminate twiligth open). Dts? Maybe to defend but the upgrade shadow strike was nerfed in the Last patch... so protoss is dead. Please think if you are protoss, you choose this patch? No. (Sorry for my bad english)
The fundamental issue with Protoss is Maxpax doesnt play LAN. That is literally it. He beats Clem all the time. Balance council is wise enough to consider the needs of ladder players, where Protoss is clearly strong, and not just mindlessly buffing Protoss until they win a big tournament.
terran is favored vs protoss at the top level, only herO can compete but most of GM is toss so there is no shortage of players, the problem is how much better you need to be to win with it which is really imo the biggest question for balance, does the player who played better win? and tbh i really don't think that is always the case in t v p currently. thats also the issue with the everyone on ladder has 50% winrate so their opinion is worthless meme. if im playing faster, scouting better, microing better, macroing better etcetc than someone but they are at the same mmr as me because their race is easier to win games win then that isn't really ok and wouldnt be ok with any community other than starcraft which likes to be elitist and see itself as a hard game where everyone who isn't serral (or whoever else was wining historically is 'just a noob' and their opinion is only 'whine'.
@@hanyu_dadalike half of the GM players on the ladder are toss. It’s just an easier race to win with. Unless you’re the top 0.1% toss is overpowered. Hence why it’s so hard to balance.
god i’m so tired of people complaining about balance. you are not the top of highest play and even if you were then you’d understand that it’s not how it works lol. there’s issues yeah but protoss is not nearly half as bad as what anyone here says haha. we don’t need bronze league heroes giving opinions.
Spoiler shield 🛡️
0 Ravens still built
All the Terrans play testing (e.g. Clem, Spirit) are sand bagging to make people think that everything is okay and this patch should go through. Don't believe their scam.
@@aleccampbell7707any excuse not to build a raven.
@@DistrictTerra Move shield EMP to Raven, ghost EMP only works on energy or requires fusion core upgrade to also work on shields
This felt like clem was practically sandbagging, no early game tank push, no raven, generally bad micro early game and less multitasking. Not world champ clem
Yeah he wanted it to go late so he could check everything out.
obviously he's playtesting, not competing
It's only american server. He has hella ping, while astrea is in his ground
he prolly had 300 more ping than his oppo, tho
One of these players is trying out patched units, the other one is trying to make sure the patch goes through as is.
Don't worry, the balance council could see that nuke is underpowered in this game and needs a buff, buffing it will also help prevent nuke playstyle.
Gotta love how they gave a bullshit cooldown to the energy overcharge, yet Terran can just spam Orbital Command buildings to use infinite Mule drops and scans all the way into the late game. The balance council is doing their best to pretend they're trying to help Protoss, by only giving the opportunity for mana refills once every 60 seconds.
Real solution: no cooldown. Give Protoss the ability to scale into the late game with lots of Nexuses, and strengthen their casters to give legitimate offense or defense into the late game. The ability is worthless otherwise.. Protoss will remain in a weakened state without this.
Yeah it's so odd they felt the need to give it cooldown AND range. Energy charging is an interesting idea, but it needs to lose its limitations.
Is it just me or is Clem playing terribly this game? Not even taking Astrea into account, the pushes are weird, micro is off, and what are those compositions?
It’s a patch game. Neither player is trying super hard and both are experimenting
@@andrewduan5123 I guess that makes sense, trying things out.
Apparently hes playing on american servers and ping is super high
Be honest Pig, how much did you pay Clem to let us think that protoss got a buff? 🤣
Astrea has been playing this style for years and it's definitely stronger in a vacuum if you can get to this point with a decent early-mid game. Obviously clem wanted to try out BF hellions this patch.
Astrea did say after I cast it "disclaimer - I'm pretty sure Clem was super tired and he beats me 6/7 times otherwise"
I want to see proxy marauders vs Protoss on this patch. Is it even possible to hold?
@@PiGstarcraft Haha anyway, they were just trying out things. Just funny that every protoss is mourning right now about the patch and Astrea beats the world champ easily here^^
Protoss got buffed that's a fact.
When you see the first new mass liberator zone literally cover your entire screen: youll get why people are annoyed
Libs are SIEGE units. They HAVE to have a range advantage. Take a look at lurkers or tempests and tell me how the range is unfair
Not to mention, you may not realize this, but this makes it so that positions where libs are out of range of ground units to harass workers pretty much nonexistent. I am sure the pro protoss players really prefer this lib to the old one. As a Terran I would much rather have the old lib.
@@kaiser2261 ok if youre going to compare them with tempest or lurkers, please compare the dps too, sir.
@@SearlyTempest can move and doesn't have to siege. Lurker does aoe.
@@kaiser2261 terran has very hard counters to lurkers and tempests. protoss in particular do not have a hard counter to libs. the unit is already broken vs protoss and buffing it is just one more in a long list of 'fu' to all toss players
Before I watch the video, just what I would do as Clem: Lose the game.
Because the patch is insanly good for Terran. And the last thing you want as a Terran is to get any changes.
So it would be very smart to lose the game.
That reduces the risk of changes to the patch significantly.
Appear to be weak when you are strong.
Still true in 2024.
yeah and then he gets his ghosts hit by distruptors repeatedly which in no world would clem do if he was trying to win
@@verdibyrd Spot on - Toss maybe manages to hit a marine or marauder here and there against him, but that's it.
Hopefully Protoss comes out with a net positive from this patch when it's finalized, because Xel'naga knows the Protoss need help badly at the highest levels of the game. When's the last time any Protoss won anything significant? It's a joke at this point how piss poor Gateway units are in lategame vs. basic Terran and Zerg units. I can't believe they still haven't given Zealots something like increased damage upon first strike when they charge in. Just anything to help balance the scales a little bit.
The second maxpax attends a tournament Protoss will start winning things
Lol "Xel'naga knows" 😂😂😂
Charge lots were nerfed on front end damage because they were strong in the early game.
I'd like to see changes to rarely used units first.
Void ray, mother's hip is still 8seless. Carriers are crap, even tempest change is useless, since they can't survive still....
@@ryankendall3716 That's if he can actually perform on LAN.
If Clem didnt play LAN and Serral didnt play LAN and Maxpax did play LAN, what do you think the tournament results would look like for Toss? They would literally win everything.
Disruptor damage halved... even with a small radius increase, seems a nerf at first glance. It really depends on the target; are we trying to hit some marines/ghost, or trying to delete stationary siege tanks/buildings? (what's this about nerfing static gameplay?)
Tempest: remains to be seen. Less range, but less supply. But due to less range, less cost-efficient vs viking.
Protoss nexus energy overcharge: still prone to being removed half a second later by a random EMP. (or, for high templar, snipe e.g.)
Immortal nerf: wtf.
Protoss already has not many cannons for their glass cannon units.
And less production often than equivalent Terran or Zerg. Plus, whilst Immortals might counter at low numbers, they can get recked in bigger fights.
We're nerfing passive gameplay.
Here's salvage on towers, and a radius increase on liberators, oh, and they benefit from smart servos now too.
And you can insta-heal your supply depot.
Liberator radius increase: on some maps, will make it very difficult indeed to move around the circle with e.g. queens (now more expensive...) or even Stalkers.
Compare the radius increase for the disruptor, vs the Thor splash. And yes, Thor loses range in this mode, but still.
They could have buffed disruptor or rebalanced it with different damage at different splash distances.
We're nerfing static gameplay. Here's stronger broodlords.
It's weird tbh.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Not much truly creative for Protoss besides the Nexus.
Something like giving adepts with glaives an anti-air attack e.g., give Colossus a bonus vs sieged up or burrowed units maybe, give Immortals anti-air maybe.
(Protoss is only race without mobile gass-less anti-air).
To make Colossus/Immortal a bit more difficult: add an active ability to these units; maybe.
Biggest buff to protoss is if you can give energy to command centers, you can now spend 400 minerals to give your ally 2 mules every minute to hard carry
one reason ppl are pissed is that not only did protoss get nerfed hard but the terran buffs directly comtradict the stated goal of making ealry agression stronger. They buffed libs, Turrents (salvage) and actually give supply depos an instant heal.
Astrea´s Oracle was deflected asap, so energy wasn´t helpful.
Why did Clem retreated in minute 4? 2 cyclones and a bunch of marines would have ended the game in his favor, that would have crushed astrea as there is no way to defend against that, not even with Battery overcharge.
The ideas are good, but removing B overcharge is not the solution, Needs to be reworked, maybe. E Overcharge is a good idea, but can just target 1 unit, and has a 60s CD, no way it is viable.
Lets suppouse you are out of energy because an EMP disabled all of your units, plus removed all the shields. You recharge 1 single unit to defend against a whole army, but then instantly again another EMP lands and you have to wait another 60 minutes to use the skill.... if you have some energy left in your nexus of course, because EMP affects units and structures.
In the case you are figthing against Z, you use sentries to block the enemy´s army or to create a viable terrain to fight. 1 ravager can destroy the force field, with a skill that does not require energy and has a cooldown of 7s.....
And storm just does not do any dmg to units as most of them are tanky and or can walk away on creep so fast that they take almost no dmg, even if they hold position on storm it would take 3 to 4 storms to kill roaches, ravagers, lurkers and other units.
Using E Overcharge impacts directly on worker production and upgrades, so in order to "defend" you must use that energy, and instantly you are behind in income and production.
To be honest, this match looks like was set up. Clem is just taking his time and playing with his food, while astrea struggles to survive.
This patch just does not work.
energy ability is BADASS but definitely doesnt fill the hole left by battery overcharge, I agree 100%
@@PiGstarcraft Sadly the mentioned negative effects come from 1 single change in Protoss. There are another 3 changes that have a negative impact on the race too. And the other 3 are just irrelevant.
Clem didn't push with his cyclones and marines because he has a brain, unlike you, and wants to check out other changes in the game too. And you basically just want to see protoss losing to prove they're weak
@@litlgenjinie2927 wow, clearly someone got angry, and threw a very coherent and fundamented argumen.
It's a VS, not a "Test". It's clearly started in the Title of the video. And the point it's not to know "why" it's rethoric, the point is to show that Astrea had no chance to hold against that attack.
Cheers!
Now whichever pro is first to do builds around rushing high templar with storm/warp prism drops, instead of DT, will be looking like a genious. Just charge up first two or three templars with energy and destroy opponents worker lines in beginning to mid game
⚡🌩️⚡-RUSH!!! ftw...
Clem is play testing not competing :))
Clem def throwing haha
These P changes are turning me off the game completely.
Playing or watching? Because playing the game the changes to P are good since P is super dominant on the ladder. Watching is less so, but we will wait and see
Protoss needs cap of 300 instead 200 to even have a chance lmao
Balance to nerf the protoss to the grave. Time to delete sc2
You don't even play the game 🤣 stop pretending, Mr bronze
@@litlgenjinie2927😂😂😂😂
C'mon we all know if clem committed to that cyclone push early game the game would jave been over
Oh come on balance council, the ghost is clearly weak in this game. We need to fix it by merging EMP and Snipe and half the cooldown. I think adding siege mode to the ghost will also help stop camping playstyles especially if we make nuke a cooldown ability. Can we also add a "fly all buildings to the corner of the map" button to help stop flying buildings to the corner of the map playstyle. Oh and buff the widowmine and cyclone and nurf zerg and protoss, just make sure the patch notes say the opposite and no one will ever know. Thanks guys, great job.
Pig people are mad because it's actually beyond a joke at this point and everyone cares about the game as much as top players, it isn't just 'whine' when they are upset. it's appalling the way everyone knows terran is very favored vs p and also to a lesser extent vs z (55% winrate at gm for t vs z when i checked and some maps are 60%+). everyone knows ghosts are the main issue in both matchups, but there are no changes to ghosts. everyone knows terran camping is the main issue with the camping, but they get only buffs to their camping tools and other tools no one asked for too, they don't need a supply depot overcharge, they don't need to be able to salvage their 100 turrets when they decide they camped long enough and both of these changes along with the lib change very obviously are against the suggested theme of the patch. just like last time when it was 'we want to improve p vs t' then they buff bio timings and nerfed distruptors and made cyclones a free win. terran once again get a bunch of new toys but protoss lose their best tool because its 'frustrating'? no, ghosts, libs , scans and mules and playing against terrans that do unpunishable mmm every single game are what is frustrating and they all get untouched or buffed over and over.
The only explanation is the council is incredibly biased against protoss and in favour of terran and it is 100% intentional to shaft toss and make clem and maru win everything OR they are all total idiots. since some of the smartest rts players are on that council what is the obvious answer? That is why people are mad because we aren't stupid, barely invested whiners. we are the community and playerbase of a 14 year old game we all have invested untold amounts of time, energy and emotion into and are watching it be ruined by a bunch of people who are clearly biased toward terran and who are clearly shouting down everyone else on the balance committee. not to call him out but for an example Uthermal recently said to his viewers protoss is favoured vs terran on current patch. hes not stupid, it's intellectual dishonesty and everyone can see it.
This reads like an emotional overreaction, what context does it even have to the video? Astrea won, and the new energy recharge has turned out to be incredibly useful unlike what the community predicted so why be so angry? Let's wait out and see more data before jumping to conclusions.
Exacty, we have been loving the game for 13 years we love it as much as the pros
@@tiredtraveler4536 pig literally asked for people to say why they are mad. did you watch the video?
@@tiredtraveler4536 im confused why you are asking that when in the first 30 seconds of the video pig has asked for people to say why they are mad. maybe watch a video before trolling the comments.
Yea but ppl like pig and this tiredtraveler guy will try to gaslight you and dismiss your opinions. If you disagree with them it's all of a sudden "vitriol" and your "mad and emotional". Pig can also somehow tell you have a stutter from reading your posts online 😂. I stopped playing starcraft a long time ago because it's unbalanced and ppl like this don't want it balanced.
I tested today and the energy overcharge ability doesn't work on a nexus or a battery. According to patch notes it should be applicable to structures as well.
Thank you for this! I’ve been waiting to see a match with the new balance
Move the emp to the raven
That would just completely destroy tvt and make raven overpowered in tvp
@@Rohit0406 it would completely change tvt, and the raven is a much easier target to snipe than the ghost because it doesn't fit in medivacs
ghosts needs a nerf a big one
Isn't smart servos applying to liberators now? I haven't seen clem upgrade it this game.
18:50 Yes
That is the ability that needed balancing
Do you know what a single disruptor hit does to a terran army?
do you know what stasis does? What parabomb does to vikings? What fungal+parabomb does to anything that flies?
one click and 20 supply and 2k resources of specialist detection and light ground targeting unit is rendered useless by one lone unit that costs 2 supply and has 10 specialist uses and can be used to beat close to 100% of army comps in the game, oh and it was invisible so the only counterplay was what? have observers with every group of units you make? why was observer made easy to see, but ghost isnt. ghost can nuke your whole base among 10 other strong uses. observer sees things. why did observer deserve a nerf, but not ghost.
@@geurosthere is counterplay for these
with EMP you just click it and shields+energy are gone instantly
@@verdibyrd Cool, that just means the rest of terran units (such as most mech) is trash if ghost is needed to fill that specialist role. Terrans would be happy to receive a ghost nerf if anything other than MMM wasn't so bad.
At the very start, Clem gives a reaper and 2 marines for free, and the he refuses to push into 1 energyless oracle and 1 adept.... Not even trying a drop.
Thats is definetly NOT a way to try the biggest protoss change, the battery.
Bloodninja robe and wizard hat was bash the old IRC chat thing
Actually glad to see the mama ship now
Stasis OP, needs to have a red laser and no cloak until robobay is built
24:26 Astrea Team Probe mineral steal team 🤣🤣
Astrea better switch to terran or zerg asap
Drawing balance from an insanely in form world champion by comaring him to a rank 50 player is something
Hydrogen bomb VS Coughing Baby
That hellion change is going to be savage. What a terrible idea.
As a Protoss player. Our early game defense is boo boo now. No mothership core, no battery overcharge and immortal nerf ! Wish we can adepts buff , stalker dps (10% faster ) and observer moves faster ,
I like this patch because it's something new and experimental but this can't be final😅
Anti-camping achievement unlocked!
They need to have an upgrade so bio units can hop on mech units for Terran.
People are bad at communicating? Im so confused. They're communicating very clearly. To be clear:
Terran has an enourmous amount of options that diversify its play and allow opportunities for micro, that allow it to recover in situations where it should be dead. This makes it imbalanced as the other races dont have those options.
On top of that it has been given an overall hard numbers buff.
This is obviously extremely irritating.
Sorry - enlarged girth? Are we just breezing past that?
People always mad at change. We should probably go back to sticks and caves to make them all happy again.
The potential of that energy recharge seema crazy strong.
Yeah, I was worried about the lack of shield overcharge against terran and roach all ins, but seeing the potential of oracles in the early game, maybe it will be ok.
@@lvo9197 I never understood why storm wasn't used more often in the pro scene. Seems like they'll have more spamming ability on defense now.
@bobbobby8250, we need it cause a planetary fortress is the ultimate spamming as far as defense.
@@orangepearlf40 I'm all for some new ideas Give the protoss some new tools to be more competitive.
60 second cooldown
Its incredibly weak compared to scan still
Love this game ❤
tempest are a boring unit
I thought nothing can beat the cyclone rework but this patch overall wins the garbage rasberry of 2024. What an insanely stupid list of changes.
I like how they made sure you can still 1 shot your own units if you missclick but not terran or zerg units. The ultimate FU move.
Has anyone tested 2 nexus next to each other with a shield battery for infinite energy?
Nah you can but there’s a global 1 min cool-down
Clem brought out the girth .. but Astrea pulled out the stalk and won.
Clem lacking tanks with a abiltiy to zone out easy snipes, ot protect his bio lines, is kind of missing, so templars had more access. Protoss did look hot this match.. I htink the MB wasn't rebuilt because its hp total was not the same. It was a pretty good game. Hellions looked hell=-a scary... more scary than adepts, so I think this should be nerfed... how the attack works is its made into 4 nodes. The Flame damage should do max damage, two units and hte last two units of damage does, 0 light damage.. or. 25% 3 node, and 50% 4 node. so the fire damage scales down.. that instant fry in a total line was a bit strong...Change its dmage radius more but hellions looked ot strong, but astrea was building in expecting hellions because its a new ptr, and he went tempest sbecause he knew valkrie reportings will come.. The only imbalance I can remember from valkeryie was its rate of fire, so a cluster of htem have insane dps... was never angry at its damage or range.... the tip radius is effective, I get it trying ot get rid of the untouchable air unit in siege mode is insane...
Damn the range sucks imagine restorring an oracles energy to snipe hatcheries
I'm guessing a terran slaughter of protoss.
quite the opposite, you should watch the video. In the hands of able people, the patch plays very differently than in the hands of redditors
@eshwarprasad9218 great. All the people that reviewed the patch agree with me.
And i stick to my statement.
Obesity the new Meta is hashed out, protoss will lag behind still.
Even farther than they do now.
bring back infested terrans! (ok rocket launchers were OP)
Enlarged Girth?!?! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
give us BW storm and call protoss even
Clem should be banned for droping games like this. What a shameless kid!
High templar rush is extremely strong with the energy regen. The balance council didnt sell that ability enough, sentries were the most meh unit to showcase it.
Clem is clearly not playing his A game here because he wants this patch to go through. Super Terran favored.
I think the patch seems great and am excited to try out the changes and see the pros do the same.
Liberate me baby
Engourged freedom zones
The problem with SBO is the cooldown is too short. Ability doesnt need to be removed, just increase the CD, and maybe increase the energy cost. Would be cool to keep the energy recharge part though so they can do both things.
This looks scripted asf
People are complaining but all I see now is Protoss more powerful and fun to play as never
You are correct my friend at last some one who say the truth, all this Toss show they where nerfed is the total opposite , blizz always loved his favorite race protoss😅 and dark elfes in wc3TFT but remember this is a test patch, I believe they will remove many of this "buffs" T and Z recieve and they will maintain and even buffing even more the protoss to the skys remember my words, the spam of storm , stasis , and many cheap spells and magic and wizard smiling after all of this the only good thing I see is see it like this blizz at the momment are not so greedy I see this : I will start with Z is they are trying to give a nerfed veeeeeeeeeery greedy new "dark swarm" to zerg ,before they where "invincible" under the cloud the protoss will spam storms and "Tempest balls" to kill lurkers hydra comps, the anti air cloud resist -50% ground damage.The tempest is like the lurker of zerg and the LIB of terrans. microbial shroud reduced -50% air damage tenpest lvl0 does 40 normal (20 to a hidra) hidra hp:90hp they create that buff "slide" supposely to run from storm (-spd nerf a little) hidra without microbial die in 3 shots with microbial 5😅 lets see if this is going to work , in the terran side the best defense T have to contain Protoss balls is with libs + bioball becose blizz know pross will start to use the same tempest ground range 10 and air range13 (in new patch) terrans will struggle a lot to kill the tempest behind GIANT protoss balls , "bc operational" to expensive thats why they remain the ghost becose they help to combat powerfull protoss casters ,emp was the same as bw and nobody complain in those years 0 energy 0 shielfs period , I think the lib got the adventage on range 13 air and 10 ground they dont need to stop to shoot is a dumb unit, terrans and P they are a siege unit to contain protoss balls, lurker and libs both have a disadventage they need to stop and plant like a s. tank that is so dominant by the protoss side carriers ms protect the tempest with a mined field of stasis spam, storms, feedback spam, graviton beams, and all that wil bring "magic wars" depending on the skills of the player to face 1v1 do you realize thats why in T and Z sides bLizz knows that always since the genesis of this game protss all time have the range advantage and the dominant distance power to not stop to shoot unlike T and Z does in this patch what they are doing is playing the protoss game to kills faster lib tranformations and lurker burrowing that takes micro is slow and many are loose in the way a smart toss will take adventage of that with focus fire exterminating Z and T units 1 by 1and while doing mass aoe pvt for me now is 65P% v 45T adventage in favor of a smart protoss hand. Justice for all
you were talking complete nonsense about the motherships previous and patched attack. 8:40
according to the patch notes, it was 6 beams x 6 dmg = 36, it will be 4 beams x 6 dmg x 4 target = 96!
ok it was corrected 10:22
Every arm chair grandmaster (in reality barely gold league) coming out of the woodworks to cry about the new patch. Even the pros don’t know how all the changes shake out yet, but these dudes take one look at lib range nerf and radius buff and complain one way or another. Yes, maybe lib radius is too big now, or maybe libs no longer having the better range means they show up in a lot less games. Maybe disruptor decreased damage is terrible, or maybe the increased area makes up for it. Maybe things nobody is even paying any attention to are what prove to be the most unbalanced of all.
At this point, Pig doesn’t know, Clem doesn’t know. Astrea doesn’t know, or Dark, or Serral, or Maru or any other pro player. Which means certainly neither I, nor any of you numbnuts know.
They have been testing this for ages, they dont just make numbers and abilitys up. It's only just gone public and put on the public test realm. Viewers and players fron bromze to gm can see the results, playstles and units. Sure people might not have the answers or understand the problems entirely but they can see things like ghosts being very strong and say ghosts are too strong. Balance council ignored this completely and focused on.... salvage. Historically people said snipe needed a nurf and they were right, investors were too strong and they were right. Void rays were as well. This patch we ignored all that and buffed the missile turret...
@@danarr3787 Yeah, and for every 1 thing the average person gets right, they get 9 wrong. Doesn't feel like a good track record. All I'm saying is: wait, see, THEN judge. Not the other way around.
@darylbas8216 Absolutely, you are right in that. It is very hard to see the true impact changes have because of the variables and mind games and cheese ect. Either way can still like them or hate them. ❤️ I do like the energy buff mechanic.
I see that the Protoss indeed got significantly buffed with the 100 energy thing, yet I remember every whiner was in fact complaining about how the thing is a net nerf LOL, even those pretending to be neutral/objective said it's questionable or net nerf. But spamming stasis is just an insanely difficult strategy to counter in early and mid games because Ravens are both very costly and easy to die due to their slow movement speed. Scans are too costly in early/mid game as well. Spamming statis, reveal, storm in late game is also very hard to counter. I don't like to whine like the toss and zerg players constantly do, but it's a clear fact that the stasis ward thing actually encourages Protoss to play more defensively in early games and even the best Terran in the world couldn't make early game exciting at all. This is obviously against Balance team's stated goals. I highly suspect this particular change will be at least partially rolled back.
Reading the comments I just lost faith in any objectivity of Protoss players LOL. The incessant whining and bias is just insane.
Let’s not jump to conclusions lol. This was just be game and Clem is clearly not trying his hardest here. It’s definitely a nerf for ladder toss, which is good, but for the pros we need to wait and see. Harstem said he thinks it’s a good change in the right direction but still a overall nerf.
Yall spam widow mines and spam mules and spam stim.
To fix spamming the hierarchy goes as follows.
Zerg > Terran > Protoss.
Zergs rank #1 spammer
Terran ranks #2 spammer
Toss ranks #3 spammer.
To fix spam you fix 1-2 first before addressing #3 or you can go to the grocery store and buy some spam either way. You terrans and zergs earned it!
Enjoy!
The problem is the early atack zerg and terran. Dont have time and resources to storm. Maybe 1 o 2 oracles (to weak ) but if go to 2 oracle you dont have gate units. Minute 4:30/5 all ins. And this nerf force to open stargate couse inmortal is nerfed (useless: eliminate robo opening) and no time to storm(eliminate twiligth open). Dts? Maybe to defend but the upgrade shadow strike was nerfed in the Last patch... so protoss is dead. Please think if you are protoss, you choose this patch? No. (Sorry for my bad english)
The fundamental issue with Protoss is Maxpax doesnt play LAN. That is literally it. He beats Clem all the time. Balance council is wise enough to consider the needs of ladder players, where Protoss is clearly strong, and not just mindlessly buffing Protoss until they win a big tournament.
how is it clearly strong? lmao, everyone get a 49-51% wr in ladder
terran is favored vs protoss at the top level, only herO can compete but most of GM is toss so there is no shortage of players, the problem is how much better you need to be to win with it which is really imo the biggest question for balance, does the player who played better win? and tbh i really don't think that is always the case in t v p currently. thats also the issue with the everyone on ladder has 50% winrate so their opinion is worthless meme. if im playing faster, scouting better, microing better, macroing better etcetc than someone but they are at the same mmr as me because their race is easier to win games win then that isn't really ok and wouldnt be ok with any community other than starcraft which likes to be elitist and see itself as a hard game where everyone who isn't serral (or whoever else was wining historically is 'just a noob' and their opinion is only 'whine'.
@@hanyu_dadalike half of the GM players on the ladder are toss. It’s just an easier race to win with. Unless you’re the top 0.1% toss is overpowered. Hence why it’s so hard to balance.
Aligulac=> MaxPax is 209-331 (38.70%) in games and 60-109 (35.50%) in matches against Clem...
@@skyryudo311all time is not representative of recent games
god i’m so tired of people complaining about balance. you are not the top of highest play and even if you were then you’d understand that it’s not how it works lol. there’s issues yeah but protoss is not nearly half as bad as what anyone here says haha. we don’t need bronze league heroes giving opinions.
Stasis ward all around the map all game long!!! Blizzard: "we wanted to stop camping defensive strategies" 😂😂😂
We will see a Protoss champ with this patch. Even Astrea can win clem pretty easy with this patch.
Enlarged Girth lmao
CHODE LIBS!!!!