I have never been a Scientologist, but I was in the US Navy for 6 years. My personal opinion is that L. Ron didn’t develop mind control, he merely adopted and amplified what he had already learned as a Navy officer.
@@Brad-xd5ob Yikes! That reminds me. You know the novel and movie “Mr. Roberts”, of course. Well Lafayette claimed that the hero played by Henry Fonda was based on Lafayette himself. The author of the novel, Thomas Heggen, said that the character was a pure invention.
@@Brad-xd5ob Hubbard was in the Black Magik cult right before he came up with his own thing. That cult was established by Aleister Crowley as far I can remember. A lot of the scientology mind control ideas and cult beliefs were somewhat based off of Helena Blavatsky's work, maybe indirectly, since Hubbard probably wasn't familiar with Blavatsky, but through his involvement with Crowley, whose Black Magik originated from Blavatsky's work.
@@fullROM Lafayette was very familiar with both. Quick summary: 1946 he moved moved into home of Jack Parsons in Pasadena. Jack was professor at Caltech. Unrelated, he was head of Crowley’s followers locally. Lafayette engaged with Jack to bring the Anti Christ into being. Jack wrote to Crowley that Lafayette was “the real deal.” Crowley wrote back that Lafayette could not be trusted. Lafayette made off with Jack’s money and his girlfriend. Also, in at least one lecture I listened to Lafayette talked about Blavatsky, how she tricked and manipulated people with her mysticism baloney, and how his baloney was the one true way to spiritual advancement.
@@NatalieLifeAfterACult ( Shrug ) He doesnt that seem that .... smart. example 26:00 He said it was eerie Priscilla Coates was under surveilance. This is ASTONISHIING to me. Hello? OSA, DSA. Snowwhite. Rick Ross doesnt seem to understand the level and degree of surveilance OSA deployed , or that He was likely a direct target. Stalking her house in Glendale would be trivially easy, just due to the large amount of Scn living there and in Burbank. I KNOW for an ABSOLUTE FACT CANs phone were bugged at this time. and were through 1993. I would expect his prosecution was fed information from this, and given To Kendrick Moxon. it didnt surprise me At the time , that they got CAN shut down.
Awesome interview. Rick is extremely knowledgable and incredibly articulate. I feel like I've learned alot and I'm looking forward to another interview with Rick. I've now ordered his book
This was an excellent interview! It was so informative. I was impressed by how you actively listened. One shock for me was how effective Scientology’s propaganda has been in leaving me with a negative opinion of Rick Alan Ross. I am stunned to discover that I misjudged the man with no evidence for my negative opinion. I am surprised to discover that he is a thoughtful and intelligent person. Thank you very much much for this excellent interview.
Thank you both for this great interview and conversation. Much valuable knowledge and experiences. It was very nice to listen to a slow dialogue where both of you seemed to listen to each other and be present.
It's the same mechanism used by Gangs... We'll give you a community, a code, a livelihood, a purpose and protect you AND you will do what we say, period
Saw a big yellow tent at Tweed Heads in, New South Wales in Australia. It was Scientology. Nobody there but made me sick! Area with vulnerable people. 😢
Great Conversation! I was lucky to have had a cult deprogrammer come into our church one evening and give a talk about cults and how they operate. Could have even been Rick Ross as it was the mid to late 80's. It always stayed with me and I resisted the pushing a new friend tried on me for Landmark 20 years after that talk...
@CapriciousCaroline it was sad as my friend had a struggling business and still gave them money, she had a baby and quietly backed away. I like to think I was instrumental as I asked how as a giver she was surrounded by takers. Sadly 20 year friendship gone just this Spring as she was pushing me to do tapping and was ignoring my telling her it was not for me and my ADD brain. I think she was starting a business around it and just couldn't accept me not doing it.
@CapriciousCaroline look it up , its suppose to be some form of calming thing, but she was telling me that she finally realized she does not have to be in pain anymore and I should to This after her suffering for 8 weeks with a mold allergy and saying it to me the day after a cortisone injection where I had a bad reaction and terrible pain... It was weird response
50:33 - That is one of the big discussions I see on the forums and in the wider ex-scn community: "Is scientology primarily a money-making scam or primarily a machine to control people?" Mike obviously won't have a discussion with me about this, but I read what he wrote and I would very much agree: Itis a machine to control people. Once they are controlled, they are ready to be exploited and exploited they are. But that is a secondary consequece of tighter and tighter control. Someone needs to interview Mike about these things... but that sure as heck is not gonna be me!
1:03:00 - I would agree, although there are people who have laft far later than I did and have more insight into the current situation at int management. But If I had to make an educated guess it would be identical to the one Rick Ross made: That Miscavige will likley be replaced not by a single person, but by some coalition of a few powerful individuals. Some sort of "Watchdog comittee 2.0". I also see a pattern in many large, well-structured high control groups: 1. The first leader is a charismatic visionary, good public speaker (Hubbard/Joseph Smith/Lenin type character) 2: The second leader is a ruthless enforcer/crisis management guy who wins the power struggle (Miscavige/Brigham Young/Stalin character) 3. Next, mostly because of the despotism and paranoia of the second leader who never nominated a successor, power is dispersed among a collective governing group (Watchdog comittee/Quorum of the 12/Politbureau). That is my model and I feel like scientology is following it the same way the Mormons and the Soviet regime did. Funny enough, Mike too wrote a very similar prediction at one point.
I met Ken Moxon once. True believer. I remember instantly not liking him. He had this aura and way of talking to people... the "I am the The Great Ken Moxon Tough Lawyer and you are not!" approach. He had this haughtiness, not unlike many ultra-rich Russian entrepreneurs that became self-made millionaires wealthy during 1990s capitalism in Russia. Except they at least they had the aqrgument of: "I started out with almost nothing just like everyone else here and I made this great thing with my own ingenuity and business acumen!". Moxon did not have any of that inbuilt prestige and charisma. He struck me as a guy who just likes to hear himself talk. Pompous and annoying. Side note 01: Looking back, maybe I was annoyed by the fact that my charm didn't seem to work on him? He was too much in love with himself. Side note 02: I realize that there were a number of executives, CMO or OSA people who were self-confident with big egos: M.Rathbun, M.Rinder, M.Jones, Olesya etc. But somehow all of them left the cult after some falling out. Moxon stands out from taht group in the way that is is still in. I do not know what was the 'secret sauce' in his case.
31:40 - Yeah I knew several such people. They would give Scientology money, do courses etc. But Scientology never wanted them in the SO or staff, because they were eitehr lapsing in and out of drugs, had a nasty criminal record, or had some sort of mental health issue. In short: They were 'perpetual PTS' and thus not deemed to be good recruits.
Brave person sharing about Bulimia - keep going beautiful human. ❤
Rick’s last point is spot on: When we get declared SP, that’s our WIN and $cintologee’s admission of FAILURE!!!
Unless you have family or people you care about left in the cult.
I have never been a Scientologist, but I was in the US Navy for 6 years. My personal opinion is that L. Ron didn’t develop mind control, he merely adopted and amplified what he had already learned as a Navy officer.
@@Brad-xd5ob Yikes! That reminds me. You know the novel and movie “Mr. Roberts”, of course. Well Lafayette claimed that the hero played by Henry Fonda was based on Lafayette himself. The author of the novel, Thomas Heggen, said that the character was a pure invention.
@@Brad-xd5ob Hubbard was in the Black Magik cult right before he came up with his own thing. That cult was established by Aleister Crowley as far I can remember. A lot of the scientology mind control ideas and cult beliefs were somewhat based off of Helena Blavatsky's work, maybe indirectly, since Hubbard probably wasn't familiar with Blavatsky, but through his involvement with Crowley, whose Black Magik originated from Blavatsky's work.
@@fullROM Lafayette was very familiar with both.
Quick summary: 1946 he moved moved into home of Jack Parsons in Pasadena. Jack was professor at Caltech. Unrelated, he was head of Crowley’s followers locally. Lafayette engaged with Jack to bring the Anti Christ into being. Jack wrote to Crowley that Lafayette was “the real deal.” Crowley wrote back that Lafayette could not be trusted. Lafayette made off with Jack’s money and his girlfriend.
Also, in at least one lecture I listened to Lafayette talked about Blavatsky, how she tricked and manipulated people with her mysticism baloney, and how his baloney was the one true way to spiritual advancement.
Watching this interview while having lunch on the Carnival Cruise docked in Aruba next to the Freewinds.
@@CapriciousCaroline Now it’s 1:30 pm and I’m too hot to leave the AC of the ship. Will head ashore later for my 5:00 pm Sunset Cocktail Cruise.
@@CapriciousCaroline I really deserve this. 🙂
Enjoy!😉
@@NatalieLifeAfterACult ( Shrug ) He doesnt that seem that .... smart. example 26:00 He said it was eerie Priscilla Coates was under surveilance. This is ASTONISHIING to me. Hello? OSA, DSA. Snowwhite. Rick Ross doesnt seem to understand the level and degree of surveilance OSA deployed , or that He was likely a direct target.
Stalking her house in Glendale would be trivially easy, just due to the large amount of Scn living there and in Burbank.
I KNOW for an ABSOLUTE FACT CANs phone were bugged at this time. and were through 1993. I would expect his prosecution was fed information from this, and given To Kendrick Moxon. it didnt surprise me At the time , that they got CAN shut down.
Amazing interview. Rick is obviously very knowledgeable about Scientology.
Thank you Natalie for this fantabulous interview
Excellent interview and I'm already looking forward to Rick's return for another too - thanks to you both!
Awesome interview. Rick is extremely knowledgable and incredibly articulate. I feel like I've learned alot and I'm looking forward to another interview with Rick. I've now ordered his book
This was an excellent interview! It was so informative. I was impressed by how you actively listened. One shock for me was how effective Scientology’s propaganda has been in leaving me with a negative opinion of Rick Alan Ross. I am stunned to discover that I misjudged the man with no evidence for my negative opinion. I am surprised to discover that he is a thoughtful and intelligent person. Thank you very much much for this excellent interview.
Fantastic interview! Wow!
Thank you for such a great interview, so much knowledge
This conversation was great, so important!
Rick is the best for calling Marty Ratbum out, as a scumbag!
EXCELLENT!
Thank you both for this great interview and conversation. Much valuable knowledge and experiences. It was very nice to listen to a slow dialogue where both of you seemed to listen to each other and be present.
It's the same mechanism used by Gangs... We'll give you a community, a code, a livelihood, a purpose and protect you AND you will do what we say, period
You are on 🔥 with all these interviews, Natalie! Another great one 👏🏼
Great point to ask for a specific counselor, Jeff from Pts for life is taking courses for this specific issue, he would be a great guest with Ross.
Saw a big yellow tent at Tweed Heads in, New South Wales in Australia. It was Scientology. Nobody there but made me sick! Area with vulnerable people. 😢
Great Conversation! I was lucky to have had a cult deprogrammer come into our church one evening and give a talk about cults and how they operate. Could have even been Rick Ross as it was the mid to late 80's. It always stayed with me and I resisted the pushing a new friend tried on me for Landmark 20 years after that talk...
@CapriciousCaroline it was sad as my friend had a struggling business and still gave them money, she had a baby and quietly backed away. I like to think I was instrumental as I asked how as a giver she was surrounded by takers. Sadly 20 year friendship gone just this Spring as she was pushing me to do tapping and was ignoring my telling her it was not for me and my ADD brain. I think she was starting a business around it and just couldn't accept me not doing it.
@CapriciousCaroline no tapping yourself in spots on your body with your fingers...
@CapriciousCaroline look it up , its suppose to be some form of calming thing, but she was telling me that she finally realized she does not have to be in pain anymore and I should to This after her suffering for 8 weeks with a mold allergy and saying it to me the day after a cortisone injection where I had a bad reaction and terrible pain... It was weird response
Great share
Well said! Bravo! Thank you both!👏👏👏❤
😊🌸
What an amazing interview. Thank you to you both!!
Great interview, very informative!
Great interview, Thank you, Natalie & Rick! ❤
Our pleasure!🌸
This was so great. Thank you so much for all the good stuff1!
Loved this interview!
One of my favorites!
Good on you Charlie ❤
I learned soooooo much!
Me too!
Fantastic
Battle Creek Michigan Replay Crew here!❤ Love me some Rick Alan Ross!
Great interview
I learned a lot.
What a excellent interview Natalie ❤❤
Perhaps MR went back IN to SCN to avoid the complete reckoning that might have helped
What a great interview! So informative and helpful. Thanks so much!
50:33 - That is one of the big discussions I see on the forums and in the wider ex-scn community: "Is scientology primarily a money-making scam or primarily a machine to control people?"
Mike obviously won't have a discussion with me about this, but I read what he wrote and I would very much agree: Itis a machine to control people. Once they are controlled, they are ready to be exploited and exploited they are. But that is a secondary consequece of tighter and tighter control. Someone needs to interview Mike about these things... but that sure as heck is not gonna be me!
1:03:00 - I would agree, although there are people who have laft far later than I did and have more insight into the current situation at int management. But If I had to make an educated guess it would be identical to the one Rick Ross made: That Miscavige will likley be replaced not by a single person, but by some coalition of a few powerful individuals. Some sort of "Watchdog comittee 2.0".
I also see a pattern in many large, well-structured high control groups:
1. The first leader is a charismatic visionary, good public speaker (Hubbard/Joseph Smith/Lenin type character)
2: The second leader is a ruthless enforcer/crisis management guy who wins the power struggle (Miscavige/Brigham Young/Stalin character)
3. Next, mostly because of the despotism and paranoia of the second leader who never nominated a successor, power is dispersed among a collective governing group (Watchdog comittee/Quorum of the 12/Politbureau).
That is my model and I feel like scientology is following it the same way the Mormons and the Soviet regime did. Funny enough, Mike too wrote a very similar prediction at one point.
I met Ken Moxon once. True believer. I remember instantly not liking him. He had this aura and way of talking to people... the "I am the The Great Ken Moxon Tough Lawyer and you are not!" approach.
He had this haughtiness, not unlike many ultra-rich Russian entrepreneurs that became self-made millionaires wealthy during 1990s capitalism in Russia. Except they at least they had the aqrgument of: "I started out with almost nothing just like everyone else here and I made this great thing with my own ingenuity and business acumen!".
Moxon did not have any of that inbuilt prestige and charisma. He struck me as a guy who just likes to hear himself talk. Pompous and annoying.
Side note 01: Looking back, maybe I was annoyed by the fact that my charm didn't seem to work on him? He was too much in love with himself.
Side note 02: I realize that there were a number of executives, CMO or OSA people who were self-confident with big egos: M.Rathbun, M.Rinder, M.Jones, Olesya etc. But somehow all of them left the cult after some falling out. Moxon stands out from taht group in the way that is is still in. I do not know what was the 'secret sauce' in his case.
Excellent interview!
These groups also seek out people in crisis
We need someone to intern with him so we have someone to follow on his foot steps !!!
I’d love to!
@NatalieLifeAfterACult that would be amazing! Would he work as an advisor to SPTV Foundation. What a fabulous resource he would be!
You would be perfect and already did it with your daughter ❤️
31:40 - Yeah I knew several such people. They would give Scientology money, do courses etc. But Scientology never wanted them in the SO or staff, because they were eitehr lapsing in and out of drugs, had a nasty criminal record, or had some sort of mental health issue. In short: They were 'perpetual PTS' and thus not deemed to be good recruits.
❤️
How many times has DM altered the words of LRH... hmmmm???
I think that Tom Cruise's acting is not great anymore. He seems to be a super scientologist actor now.
WOW, wonder what running around a pole does to your humanity and emotional health?!? Disassociated much??