Enjoy @EcoFlowTech exclusive preorder offer! Get a Free DELTA Bag on orders that include an EcoFlow DELTA 3 Plus, use my code EFDRTWOB5 for an extra 5% off on DELTA 3 Plus and RIVER 3 standalone valid until October 25th.
cringey exposed gears. this is very unreliable for the wear and tear and dirt of the outdoors. I was highly interested with VAWT for more than a decade but my research/I realized lately it is no match to HAWT. It can explained/summarized like we "mostly" don't use vertical blades for moving air. 2:47 this multimeter design is at least 20 years old and which I bought during college. It works to this day with some quirks. However, a US company R&D using the cheapest available multimeter could be red flag.
That's probably my favourite video on the channel so far. Two nerds nerding out with their big toys, and showing all the design process and the hurdles from lab to production. I just love it
No matter how the wind turbine is designed, don’t put it in an area with modest average annual wind speeds - wind speed is everything- as the power generated varies as the cube of wind speed - this means if wind speed doubles, you get 8 times the power - don’t put wind turbines in places where the average wind speed is least than 15 kilometres per hour - this is also why you want your wind turbine to be high! Like 50 feet above your roof…as houses, trees etc. slow the wind down dramatically. (Did my mech eng thesis on windpower in ‘81 😉)
Also this specific type of turbine is not particularly efficient. The power is pulsing with the rectified sine of the attack angle, because you get less thrust when it's facing anywhere except directly upwind, so that's a lot of windpower wasted already. Making them swept prevents this problem, but also reduces efficiency directly by converting some of the windpower into vertical thrust on the bearings. And the downwind lobe is reducing efficiency directly by 27% on top of that, because it generates drag. The upwind lobe also works purely through drag, which is not aerodynamically efficient compared to lift. The reason this turbine works at all is because the same half-barrel lobe shape has different coefficients of drag depending if it's facing the wind or is opposing it (1.4 vs 0.4 respectively).
Each person would have to make their own decision on this - if the unit is able to function reliably and without any significant maintenance costs for 10-20 years it might pay for itself. For commercial purposes it’s likely a non-starter anyways based on what another poster mentioned in greater detail, Savonius type turbines are nowhere near the efficiency of the standard 3 blade wind turbine. It’ll boil down to final price and average wind speeds in an area. I live almost directly at the base of an escarpment so winds are generally attenuated by it, whereas up on top it can be much more windy, only .5 miles away at most. Part of the appeal could also be to off-grid folks looking to augment their energy availability.
@@willm5814 I could see this designed into the side of a building or on top of a shorter one in a city full of sky scrapers. The buildings would redirect the available air and you’d get a Bernoulli effect
I find the cost difference with solar a big disadvantage. This unit with a max power delivery during a few percent of the time of around 500 W costs 6000 dollars. That money can buy several 400 w solar panels and a few kwh of battery storage. And solar delivers power during a far larger portion of the time. That means systems like these are only interesting in areas where the sun does not shine for large amounts of time like in the far north during winter when a day will only last a few hours. In almost all other cases solar will be a more economical solution.
@dropshot1967 you're trying to compare wind to solar. That's like trying to compare your car to your truck. They serve different purposes. The point here is if you have good wind in your area you will want to get the best technology to capitalize on that otherwise wasted power. We have always advocated (from the beginning) that people should have BOTH wind and solar on their property if they have good levels of both resources. Price-wise, solar was terribly expensive in the beginning and then after 10 - 15 years started coming down significantly. The same thing will happen with our turbines as we push into mas-production levels. The key is to first have tech worthy of further development and investment.
@@HarmonyTurbines I am a big fan of wind turbines 😜 I have owned part of one and currently stil invest in offshore wind farms. But I have to admit that these home wind turbines just do not make sense compared to solar and batteries. Even in winter $6000 will get you more power in most places in the world and negligible maintenance compared to a wind turbine. For balance you can get less solar panels and more battery storage. There may be some places where this makes sense, but that is a niche market.
@@SolAce-nw2hf New tech is always much more costly in the beginning but if we do our job right and make solid products, continually improving as we go, then costs will drop and the tech will make more and more sense for the average person as the product matures. -Just the same way it happened with solar.
@@HarmonyTurbines You are right. Scaling up to mass production could lower the price. The plastic prototype keeps coming back to me as something you could build at a low cost. There are also innovations with recycling used wind turbine blades into a new product (3D printable if I remember correctly). You could also make a small gadget like version that charges phones while hiking (pops out of walking stick) or make something that lowers into the ground (or ship deck) when the wind is not there to make it something millionaires want to impress their friends. You really need to find the application where this makes sense and a large solar panel does not or maybe needs some help in winter. Good luck and don't give up!
As a teenager in the 70s I worked for a man developing a savonius rotor. (Baum, Sr., et al U.S. Pat. No. 4,177,009;) it is interesting to see another design to slow it in a high wind. He started with 50 gallon drums offset. The biggest issue to getting it profitable was generators could'nt hold up to the power.
@padraigAZ please contact us from our main website or send us an email. I'd love to discuss a few things with you that might save us some time in the end. The big challenge for us right now is RPM ranges for generators that we're testing. It's like the wild-wild west out there. I love your sentence "The biggest issue to getting it profitable was generators couldn't hold up to the power." -That is a GREAT problem to have and one we're happy to tackle. So any info you can share to help further our cause would be greatly appreciated.
@@rowanshole: Your idea seems confused. For “regenerative braking”, the generator handles the power. So what problem are you solving? What you might mean is to increase the stator voltage so that more power can be transferred at a higher voltage but without increasing the current. But it will still be constrained by upper limits of what output voltage can be utilized by the rectifier.
@@denverbraughler3948 no, I mean having another generator that runs when the unit is overpowered. Basically, one generator to deal with low wind speed and another to deal with higher wind events.
That small windtunnel test.. A higher voltage (OCV) only tells you it is spinning faster.. Measure Watts if you want to know its power. Also: it may be efficient and good in slow "dirty" air, but when low to the ground and not that big, the power will be small. That said, I do like the product a lot! I would consider buying it.
Quite some time ago, some friends of mine were approached to invest in a wind turbine startup. I was asked to do a verification of the potential power capacity of the prototype, in a real world setting. So, I set it up for a 'Brake Horse Power' test at their site, with my instruments etc. The measurements confirmed my initial views, when it showed it could generate 92 watts @ 22kmph winds (far less than their claims). They were somewhat taken aback, and pointed to their demo that was pumping water. I ashed what was the GPM over the elevation head. The calculation returned a similar result - 95 Watts @ 23kmph. My friends decided to mot invest. Many others lost all their money, when the firm went under as they were unable to produce the power levels they claimed.
These are really exciting! I live downwind and just offshore from Lake Superior. Solar is suboptimal due to heavy cloud cover much of the time, but I very frequently have sustained wind in the 15-40mph range. If I could get couple of these installed, I would be off-grid for both home/lodge and shop electricity. I already use an electric chainsaw, lawn mower, etc. and this would make electric vehicles quite attractive. Michigan’s Upper Peninsula has electricity costs that are among the highest in the US and we lose power annually with storms, further adding to the appeal. If you encounter anyone with cutting edge micro-hydro solutions for a low head stream, I’d love to see that as well. This was great, thanks for posting it. Subscribed.
Just a thought on it, getting a variable speed transmission from the turbine to the generator could help with ensuring a better range on the output going into the generator. As well as setting up the gearing for a common(cheap) generator. Throw in something like a flywheel to dampen out the fluctuations in wind speed.
The mass for the turbine itself could act as a flywheel. Make the whole thing out of stainless steel so it'd be relatively cheap to produce while also being quite heavy, but not so heavy that gentle wind has a hard time getting it to move.
Weather extremes are a must for the creation of wind turbines. (Hot weather, high wind, heavy rain, snow, etc). Would love these to work, can't wait for the future
@@andyhamilton5926 You would buy this thing? Based on what? Price? Efficiency? Durability? Quality? Output? Design? Warranty? Value? Ease of installation? Track record? Reputation? Shiny brochure or video?
Something that this video does not mention but as someone who tried to make his home as energy efficient as possible is that given that 2/3 of all American housing is single family homes in master planned communities that have HOAs. These HOAs often don’t have permissive by laws and are a significant impediment in any modifications to your home. I had to jump through many hoops just to get a solar array, heat pumps to augment the existing hvac, I was denied many a times in my attempt to plant native species in my yard to help with the any standing water. I was denied attempts to convert my front yard into a cloverleaf surface rather than grass that required constant maintenance and a lot more water.
The grossly inefficient land use and resulting car-dependency of R1-zoned tracts of housing is itself a problem that needs to be fixed. We need higher density and mixed-use zoning development to replace dead/underutilized shopping malls and their massive parking moats, and along all the stroads (which themselves need to be converted to "complete streets" with bicycle lanes and bus/tram lanes so people have options to get around other than cars). If more people can live closer to the places and things they want to get to (work, school, grocery shopping, dining and entertainment) and have different ways to get there and back, that would solve a whole lot of problems.
In Washington state, zeroscape and solar panel installation may not be restricted by HOA bylaws. I live in a 48 home community which by state law, our HOA cannot disallow roof solar installation on my home.
States can pass laws stating HOAs cannot stop solar installations, merely provide some reasonable guidelines, like Michigan did in July 2024. Make the case to the state, elect representatives that support it, and then HOAs lose that authority.
A few points: 1) The power available from wind goes as the cube of the wind speed. On a 400W turbine rated at 25MPH, at 12.5MPH, you are going to get 400/8=50W 2) A maximum power point controller can adaptively work with a turbine to optimize the power output but the action will be fairly slow. A good engineer can design you one that will work well. 3) Keeping bad weather off the bearings and the generator is only a little tricky. Rain mostly falls down.The bottom of the rotor can be an upside down cup to make it shed the rain away rather than letting it hit the bearing.
Power potential increases by 8 but realistically power produced is 6 to 7 times as it's scaling is INSANE. For perspective a 25 ft wind turbine making 10KW @ 20 mph makes 490KW @ 80 MPH using a 7 multiplier scaling. Now seek images for generators that large regardless of fuel preference for a size reference.
@@kensmith5694 My calculations were using the graphs directly from the turbine manufacturers 5 mph to 20 mph where I essentially extended the graph at doubling wind speed intervals assuming same efficiency for theoretical contemplation. Not ideal, but it's closer to just overestimating saying "it's 8 multipliers, trust me bro."
@@RP-hn1qc 8 is from physics. The energy content of a chunk of moving air will follow: E = (1/2) * M * V^2 E = energy M = Mass V = Velocity How many of those that go past per second, brings in another "V" leading to a V^3
@@kensmith5694 🤔 We're in agreement but you seem to insist an argument. I'm in total agreement 8 is power potential but the losses will scale as you build it to be stronger (heavier or larger) to sustain the load regardless of blade rotational speed. Hence, 6 to 7 being the true net gain of doubling speed.
This is why I like watching your videos? This is a great idea. This remind me of reading Popular Mechanics back in the day when I was a kid. To see people are stating to be more inventive again. This is why I'm thinking of going back to school for mechanical engineering at age 72 going on 40, ha ha! Nice show dude! Peace!
Great video. I really enjoyed the facility tour. I think your point at the end is particularly important. Cost parity isn't when a 500W wind turbine costs the same as a 500W solar panel. Roughly speaking, wind blows twice as often as the sun shines. (Not a made up number. Solar projects often assume 25% of the time a panel will generate electricity and a turbine will produce power 50% of the time.) Parity can be achieved if a turbine costs is twice that of a panel. Even getting to twice the cost of solar will be a challenge, so it's an uphill battle for sure. I hope this company succeeds!
25mph wind blowing twice as often as sun shines? i don't think so. (that could be true in Antarctica though) and anything below 25mph will produce only tiny fraction of the rated 400w.
Wind projects vary the design of their turbine to reach that 50%. it is not an inherant value from the technology. A larger % means lower power production. You could have 100% generation time if you used a child's toy pinwheel but you won't get any electricity from it.
10:34 said the goal is at 25mph making 400-500 watts. But HOPES to make 20 watts at 7mph. UK average wind speed is 9 miles per hour...... So hoping for maybe 30 watts at 9mph with a turbine that big?! A 400 watt solar panel is £60. Can't see how this is a step forward.
Thanks for the interesting topic. It’s not just the energy capture, it’s also the extreme weather mitigation that is so interesting about wind turbines. This is something significant in hurricane/ typhoon/ tornado locations of the world. Ps love your new vibrant graphics
It all comes down to the math. How much does it cost, how long is the service life, and what are the expected maintenance costs? Compare those numbers with average wind speeds in your region, the expected generation value and expected time for it to pay for itself. If there's a better than 50% chance of it paying for itself in a decade, it's probably worth it. Being in Canada with our oblique sun angles and long winter nights, a product like this would be much more competitive against solar, provided it is engineered well against being impeded by cold, snow, and ice.
I love this video Ricky. I live in San Diego as well on top of the mountain. I think right near you. I’m in La Mesa and honestly, I get a crap load of wind up here because I’m on top. Things in my bathroom also rust because I get that ocean breeze. I would love to try something like this out in the future to offset the night energy usage. Great video man keep up the great work. Everything you said at the last part of the video is exactly what I want to do. Also is capture energy at night and sell it back to the grid or give it back to my batteries, etc..
Basic physics, the available wind energy in a given cross sectional area is proportional to the cube of the wind speed. So if you build a wind turbine that produces 400W at a wind speed of 25 mph then regardless of how good an alternator you have, at 7mph it can only produce (7/25)³ x 400 = 9W.
I also like this design because the bucket that is being pushed by the wind, also dumps its exhaust into the upwind bucket to help offset the force required to divert the airflow.
They started working on that concept in at least the early 1900s - at one time i had some early 1900s electrical engineering books with large turbines like those - I'm from a family of early generator and. Electrical engineers and generator mechanics - Some of the turbines were mounted on rail road flat cars and on tracks that were in a circle with several flat bed cars with those turbines on them - with a brush riding a center track to transmit voltage to a large power house bank of battery's - I started working on generators in the offshore oilfields in the early 70s and have always found power generation interesting -
@@TwoBitDaVinci I'm a bit disappointed people are still giving these charlatans air-time. The "controversy" is that they are liars. This is basic theory that everyone simulates or derives for themself when studying wind power engineering. You may as well be saying newton was wrong about F = ma or that a Joul isnt actually a watt*second. The idea that no one noticed this error and only parroted what they were told is offensive to the entire industry.
@@TwoBitDaVinci A total softball job...IMO. Do your followers a favor, and ask tougher questions. At a minimum, get better versed with the physics of wind generators.
In the great plains a huge percentage of energy is from wind but the thing the million dollar turbines have gotten correct that these little ones dont is how to deal with extremes. We could get two inches of ice buildup in one night then the next day it could all melt and we could have gusts to 80mph followed by hail and lightning. Then in the summer a month of 110 degrees and no wind. If it can handle all that then it makes a lot of sense for residential if there is little or no maintenance. After all in the 1800s windmills were wide spread for water pumping. But solar panels have no moving parts and are already working here on residential homes.
Solar is so much more attractive to the average joe for so many reasons, not least of all, probably, is avoding installing a giant blender on your property lol.
The gap in the center is crucial for increasing efficiency, because it gives another effect similar to a Pelton turbine - air velocity changes direction and imparts more force, and it has an exhaust route that pushes against the rear of the advancing scoop and reduces low pressure drag, which is the case with a closed scoop. You can have more than two scoops per level. 3, 4, 10 or more could work and wouldn't need to be staggered to defend against stalling as there would always be enough available torque.
@@denverbraughler3948 but you *want* angular inertia and torque. Footprint? No change. Gyroscopic torque? Meaningless - the axis of rotation won't change apart from that of the slow Earth's rotation, or if it's fixed rigidly to a ship. There are other methods of furling or braking, such as retraction, shading or shrouding, and which can be done passively as a result of mechanical negative feedback.
I'd suggest ultra-thin G10 fiberglass sheet to bend around instead of metal. It would have lower manufacturing costs, lower replacement costs, and would be lightweight for better efficiency
I get a Lot of wind here in Porto Portugal. I want a wind turbine, but no one wants to install one for me. I gave in and installed a 3.6kwh PV solar panel system. I will still work toward adding to my system by getting the wind turbine. A harmony unit looks amazing. I would love to have one.
I wonder if the open/closing function would be cheaper to produce with a simple mechanical centrifugal linkage. You could get rid of a lot of the gearing and teeth, which tend to cost a lot to produce.
Great video and I'm also really excited to see small scale, residential wind solutions coming to market. I have solar and battery storage and adding wind would round out my production capability. Keep us posted on the progress and can't wait to see your first installation
This sort of reminds me of cold fusion. Everybody wants one, but it is always just around the corner. It seems like forever ago I first saw this featured on one of these science/energy programs.
I don't think this is at all similar. This is relatively cheap, it's not that complex, and has a viable market. Considering the relatively low wattage, I could see this being better for supplemental power.
@@Toastmaster_5000- Exactly. Where wind turbines like this really shine, is in applications/situations where solar can’t, such as days/weeks of stormy weather and/or long periods of overcast conditions, which is the “Achilles Heel” of solar.
@@Toastmaster_5000 Ummmm... I wasn't saying the product was the same. I was saying the inability to bring the product to market was the same. This is a mechanical wind generator that has been in development for an eternity.
That's how I took it, not sure how that was misinterpreted. 🤷♀️ You're absolutely correct, I remember reading that these were right around the corner in popular mechanics in the early ninety's, and seems we're hearing the same things now. @@mikesheahan6906
@@mikesheahan6906 I know what you meant - I used the word "similar" (because that's what you implied by comparing to cold fusion) and ironically, similar doesn't mean same. My point is, this specific type of product hasn't been in development for an eternity. As far as I'm aware, this is a large but very specialized market (VAWTs for relatively low-mount, low-wind, minimal maintenance, small/residential scale) that hasn't really been a thing. VAWTs in general haven't really been subject to much R&D. Regardless, wind power is relatively successful and is growing in usage. Cold fusion, meanwhile, is always "just around the corner" and has been attempted by many organizations around the world at exorbitant costs where the researchers don't promise success. Quite a different situation.
Put a CVT between the turbine and the generator and add a heavy flywheel to the generator? Will be interesting to see wind combined with flywheel. The CVT can help spin the heavy flywheel from a dead stop and allow it to accelerate to a very high speed where the generator is more efficient. Edit: well it's probably not very practical due to cost and the low reliability lol
What about taking the rotational shaft through a “bike chain” with gearing to transfer the rotation to a flywheel, then generate off of that. Use the gearing to build up the energy of lower winds, but also could get it rotating faster. Just a curious thought I have had
Very nice presentation! I hope that you also cover horizontal wind turbines....mounted on the ridge of common home roofs(for example). I'm assuming that the wind would accelerate and pressure would increase as it climbed the roof slope to meet the fins.
That's exactly what I was thinking. If the house happens to face prevailing winds you could get decent power out of it, and visually it'd be barely noticeable up there.
I love wind energy. I especially love this design. I am a bit disappointed that it takes a 25 mph wind to get some good efficiency. I’m still going to build one to charge my deep cycle batteries and light my garage. I get very little wind where I live. My 5k of solar panels are doing extremely good.
Why not synchronize on AC as the design already has dynamic capacity control? A sensor could be used to decide when to disconnect and reconnect. I'd assume the losses are more with a charge controller and inverter setup, but haven't done the calculations.
Let’s be real… most homes have a wind speed of less than 10 MPH on a daily basis. What we need is a small fence made of turbines that can be placed in front of the home. 4’ high, nice looking, sectional (easy to replace sections), can use both the natural wind and the wind generated by cars passing in front of the home.
@@DrShout if it is squished, you don't need Sharp blades. It is a great advantage of the classical Wind turbines: the danger zone is a two dimensional area most birds can avoid. In some experiments birds were breeding on the turbine - yeah, they took what was offered and avoided the blade area. Bats have much more problems avoiding big wind turbines. Fortunately they fly only at certain days in the whole year in high enough altitudes above 100 meters above ground. So, here starts the problem: a fence is far too low and dangerous. Single family homes are still too low. What makes sense is to have high buildings with turbines. A solar fence however: that works very well!
Been following Harmony for quite some time. They are driven to exploit this segment of wind power generation & I firmly believe they will assemble the optimum combination in this market~
Thank you! It helped me understand a bit (or two) more regarding efficiency and reliability. It also helped allay some of my reservations regarding wind power--primarily its danger for bats and birds. My understanding is that the big, horizontal shaft wind turbines take quite a toll on flying vertebrates in general but more so on raptors and bats. The blade tips on those things are going in excess of 100 mph, sometimes far in excess of 100 mph. The vertical shaft turbines aren't as fast because their radius is a couple of meters at the most, at least on this video. Possibly more important is that a screen surrounding these would be possible while being utterly out of the question for the horizontal-shaft turbines.
@@fr3dfixit945 there have been extensive studies on the effects of wind power plants on birds and bats, but no effect on bird or bat population could be proven. Hots are pretty rare and don't endanger the population. Still, new offshore wind parks have bird tracking and slow down the rotors when a swarm approaches, but they've also shown that birds avoid wind parks altogether. A recent study in Germany checked for dead birds in wind parks very thoroughly over a long period but couldn't find significant dead birds. Not more than expected of natural causes in the area.
And why did it have gears? Did he explain it? Perhaps to get started with Profils spreaded and with higher wind getting closed especially for storm security or shut down? There are many studies out there comparing the gaps (x and y) between the blades and the best Solition. Why is the gear this big? Why not a linear closing mechanism? Savonius also generates lift. But there are better profiles, eliptical, modified Bach, Benesh. Profiles easy to reproduces with Alu-sheets.
There have been many ideas on how to get power from wind but nothing beats the horizontal shaft turbine with only a few blades. There is good reason this type dominates large scale wind power.
If they combined those with a flywheel, would that allow it to continue turning & generating power for longer when the wind stops blowing? Or does that just make it more difficult to start turning and destroy any benefit of the flywheel?
Can you do one on the ridge vent turbine? That one, at least esthetically, is pleasing to me, because it's so low profile. These say, I'm definitely a wind turbine.
I'm not sure if it has been suggested, or tested, have they considered venting those tops/bottoms with angled slats similar to a HVAC vent in a home? That angle might add to the torque generated(?) as well as allow the 'caught' wind to escape.
Why not cover the right side with a deflector that pushes more wind into the left side? Deflector attached to the outer frame, not the drive axle, always facing the wind either by shaping that 'fin' or by a trailing 'rudder'? Seems a fairly easy way to optimise the differential wind. What am I missing?
Darned tootin, I would buy one if available. Da Vinci, I've got an ask of you if you think it's worthwhile: water condensing tech, desalination in light of cheap renewables, etc. Thanks and much love
Totally want a vert wind mill on my roof. Live in El Paso.. windy town. Lots of us have flat roofs here. Would be easy to install one of these on my roof next to my solar and boost the homes power generation.. especially at night. My concern would be.. we get REALLY windy quite regularly. Like 30-50 knots is not uncommon. The occasional 50+ at least a couple times a year. I see this thing can close up, i guess for those times when it would become damaging to operate it. But i would be curious what designs exist that can actually continue to operate in high winds. Like the 30-50 mph range. They seem to want these to operate at peak, around 25mph. When do they begin to close? And do they close completely above.. 30 or whatever.. or do they close partially and try to maintain their peak rpm?
@airheart1 that's the entire reason for harmony. If you read our information on our website you'll see that the point is to NEVER stop producing. Why would we want to WASTE those great high winds. Our furling system simply lets us control our RPMs and keep right on producing at maximum (or bonus) power levels safely right on through those high wind events. This is where Harmony could really shine because other small scale turbines actually have to stop spinning to protect themselves. We have a good educational video (1m long) right on our main website demonstrating this for you.
Looking at this WIND TURBINE which is Direct-Drive to the generator, what about a Gear-Box or a Automatic Transmission that changes gears for the different wind speed? Like in a car, RPM changes into a higher gear the faster it moves but the RPM is roughly the same.
Could there be an option to have an “air scoop” like I see at the beginning of the video referred to as the wind tunnel. There would need to be a weather vain at the top that would provide wind direction and speed information to software / computer chip. The air scoop would face the wind. If the wind was too strong &/or erratic the scoop could face away from the wind to protect the structure. Power and mechanical structure would be required of course to move and lock the “air scoop” in the appropriate position. Overall there would be a huge increase in net power output. As usual, it comes down to cost benefit to build and maintain. It is well worth looking into.
I have been following them for awhile now. Been a very "Long" journey and yet I still remain hopeful that this product will be a "Great" solution in the end. I have been wondering "When" Harmony will begin shipping actual product though? Yes, I remain very hopeful and will ultimately be excited when finally there is a product offering to the consumer market. Go Harmony Turbines....
The ancient ones they have to grind grain in Iran have large structures to channel the wind into the turbine like a funnel. Surely that would increase wind speed and control the direction as well. Perhaps walls or roofs of existing structures could help
Exactly. I'm working on this around my homestead using cordless 12vdc and ryobi 40vdc batteries now with many diy applications. I.e. led lighting, can openers, ptc small ovens, etc.
i would like to know where a consistent 25 mph is available and who wants to live in a windy condition like that all the time...is the wind sped up that much more 40-50 feet above the ground...if you live near a lake, it may me a good idea or an ocean because it always seems to be windy in those areas
I already have a spot to install it with regular lake winds but protected mostly from extreme weather events 😊 Im just waiting to hear they're a plug and play system with minimal input and so far it's what I'm seeing 😃👍 Im looking for a system capable of powering 2 homes with full battery backup and grid tied to have lines for repairs and calm weather 😀
Love this... I had no idea workable wind turbines could get this small and efficient! I'm sure with a little bit of AI to help solve some of these problems, you would be able to overcome the stumbling blocks at the moment? The future's bright! or Windy! 😎👍
Do these wind turbine controllers have Max Power Point Tracking (adjusting the motor load, to maximize the power output of the system)? This would auto-adjust with wind-speed, air-temp, air-humidity).
Great episode, the guys here have thought this thru well, I like the magnetic bearing idea. At this point in time though, I think solar is more bang for buck in regards to cost, space and consistency.
Great episode. Better wind is always further up above the ground. This type of turbine appears very heavy so I don't know how to raise it safely to reach height with good wind.
Seems to me that focus should be on designs that exploit/maximize-for low wind conditions and harmonize those with the top-end wind speeds where the big scale energy is. A "farm" with many low speed gens + 1 high speed gen to keep feeding the batteries... maximally.
You’re dealing with two fundamental issues: - The Betz Limit - The Power in Wind equation The Betz Limit is basically a theoretical number of the maximum efficiency you can possibly get. At most, only 59.3% of the kinetic wind energy can be used to spin the turbine and generate electricity. Remember this is a theoretical limit; in practice, you’re going to be closer to 40%. The Power in Wind equation is given as: P = 1/2 x ρ x A x V³ With: P = power in Watts ρ = air density (kg/m³, at about 1.2 at sea level) A = Swept area of the blades (m²) V = Velocity of the wind So, no matter how good your turbine is, you will get in practice at most 40% of the wind energy converted to electricity. To capture the wind energy in the first place, you have two variables to increase (one in your control, the other not): swept area and wind velocity. The smaller you make the turbine, the faster you need to spin to make any meaningful energy. The only variable you control is the swept area, which means making the blades as big as possible. Note that the velocity is cubed in that equation, so you’ll generate much, much less power at low wind speeds. No amount of 'finding the right generator' will change this. In other words, small wind turbines don’t work except in ideal situations because physics.
that's pretty much what I've always heard... low speed wind isn't going to produce much power, and the winds around a building are just not high enough to be productive. Yes, you can generate some power, but the cost per watt is so much higher than for a wind turbine placed a hundred feet above the ground.
Solar only converts 23% at best of the incoming energy, Low efficiency isn't the major problem, its the low energy available in the source that's the problem for small scale
@@nicholaskeur Exactly, that's why the Power in Wind equation is important to take into account. At low wind speeds, there just isn't any power there with a tiny swept area - and any effort on trying to find 'the right generator' or 'increasing voltage' or what have you are pointless.
Exactly. Small wind is hopeless Solar is better by 10x as most home owners will rarely have access to decent wind Besides, solar has no moving parts and makes no noise
you could likely achieve a much more stable RPM of the output for the generator using a simple variable gearbox or CVT. having a constant output RPM or limit would simplify the generator spec, as it would be operating near it's optimal RPM range whenever the wind turbine is in motion. i would gear the turbine so the output spins at high rpm even with low wind. this would require a high torque wind turbine design, i think this could work well with this design.
I currently have a 3KW solar without battery - and planning to upgrade to a battery+solar+wind system to aim for an annual net-zero energy consumption (still utilising the grid to balance over/under production reducing the required size of the system)
What if you had reduction gears to help add rpm going between shaft and generator? At low wind speeds it could be geared up before it hits the generator. Like how a mechanical watch uses a low rotation power source to power other parts at different rpm’s. Maybe a conical shaft to help increase rpm at low wind speeds feeding the generator. Just a thought…thanks for the video. I want a VAT to support my solar also way down here in western Puerto Rico. 🏝️
What's the North like for heat? Fantastic idea with the magnetic bearings but heat would permanently damage the strength, and idk if all metal construction would attract more heat on a hot day or help regulate the bearings temperature :o genius with the adjusting openings
Would it make sense to have two turbines (1) small for low speeds and (1) large for higher velocity. And can i charge the same batteries with wind and solar? The Harmony turbines have a lot of what i call "What if" technology i have been in the HVAC controls industry for 40 years and the opposing magnet bearing checks off one of those "What if's". Good sound engineering and the company has the mindset to always watch return on investment. After all bang for the buck is still king.
I wonder if a shroud that rotates around the turbine so that it can always face the wind could turn the 10 mph wind into a more useable speed. It would certainly make the foot print larger and add some complexity, but given that the relationship of windspeed to power output is exponential it would seem to be a valuable complication.
So do the turbines close up on their own when the wind speed increases or do you have to pay attention to the weather and close it up yourself with controllers?
So about snow: Does anyone have data points on how much snow affects their PV panels when set at tilt = latitude? Personally, I never have issues, at 45° the snow slides off the panels as soon as there is any sun. Anyone have other results?
Considering that October and November are locally very cloudy and Windy, it makes sense to try to capture some of the energy, as long as I don't have to regularly get a 10-ton picker truck out at $400/hour for maintenance.
There is a reason for VAWT's to be largely ignored since the beginning of wind energy, they are a lot less efficient than HAWT's , both in trems of energy production and in terms of construction and maintenance. The numbers speak for themselves, just ask yourself how many VAWT's do you see , either commercial scale or micro wind ?? The idea of attaching a wind turbine to a house, as alluded to in other comments is also a bad idea as the vibrations transmitted into the house would drive the occupants mad 😢 .
VAWTs have an entirely different use case from HAWTs; the latter are massive, requiring a lot of dedicated space and operating best where there are strong, sustained winds, while the former are meant for more compact spaces and production at lower and more variable windspeeds. The relative efficiency would only be a relevant issue if one were pondering replacing one with the other. As it is, what's relevant is whether a VAWT is capable of making economically-viable use of wind energy in places where you _can't_ put a HAWT.
It would be interesting to see power via solar or wind rated in w/24hr or over a week, month etc. Wind does provide less like for like, but over time, it might be comparable if exposed to wind permanently etc. but having both might be a good solution to maintain topped up batteries around the clock.
I'd like to see even smaller versions for a mobile camper. A collection of 4 - 1 at each corner might get you a total of 200-400 watts over the night but it's a perfect supplement to your solar system. Especially if it means you don't have to worry about your backup generator kicking on while you're trying to sleep.
That's the market I'm waiting for, there's got to be millions of campervans around. The bearings need to be top quality & easily changed though, there's nothing worse than a noisy bearing resonating through the frame of your 'van.
@@alanhat5252 the magnetic bearing in this video would do wonders on a smaller version. I wonder why we can't run two sets of charge controllers to solve the problem in the video. We have slow rpm charge controllers and we have high rpm charge controllers. Switch between the two as the rpm increases
A very important part of the video was when he explained that most people only get average wind speeds of far less than the 12 mph minimum turbines need to produce anything. I recall someone complain that his turbine only produces power for few minutes before the wind gets so fast it shuts down; for some reason they did not want to accept that a tower that is too short and too close to trees and his house is not going to get good wind so the problem was not that they were only getting about 200W from 30+mph winds but that they only rarely got the 12 or15 mph that their 2kW or 3kW turbine needed to even start moving...
This comment and others like it make me think this is a video to drive up interest in the company so people invest. Then after having collected the money they will drop the truth about all of those things "dust, dirt, and water" will indeed hurt the magnetic bearings pretty badly and the replacement cost will not make it worth it over standard bearings. Dust, dirt, and natural water sources have ferrous particles that would be drawn to the magnets. Those magnets then moving will collect enough to grind against each other until they eventually fracture. You could isolate from those elements, but it's comments like yours that keep getting repeated that isn't the intention. This video didn't mention the noise they would expect. That's the biggest factor in home wind to date, none of the other obstacles mentioned are as great as the noise issue. Having the wind capture turn slowly is the best way to mitigate noise so far.
@@djdickey Naw. Harmony has been at this for a while already. I always see these comments but they've proven to be very legitimate with consistent updates to design and with what they're working on/stuck on. The generator issue is their biggest thing standing in the way now. They basically need a custom designed charge controller and once that's figured out they should be pretty close to small scale production before ramping up full scale
@@Fenthule you'd think they would mention how they've overcome the problems of existing systems. They didn't. They appear to be reinventing the wheel. The magnetic thrust bearings are fine, but now you're increasing costs or making failures critical (dangerous). Furthermore they don't seem to acknowledge off the shelf programmable generator controllers exist and seem to be after making a proprietary (read expensive) controller.
Unfortunately there are a lot of mature trees around here so I would have to put one on top of a 20m tower to really reap the benefits. In a suburban sprawl or areas with a lot of farmland or plains, where trees aren't really an impediment, it would be a great solution to supplement solar. Having a whole house generator that can run on RNG or bio diesel (treated for long term storage of course) would be a great solution to fill any possible energy gaps during prolonged inclement weather.
Enjoy @EcoFlowTech exclusive preorder offer! Get a Free DELTA Bag on orders that include an EcoFlow DELTA 3 Plus, use my code EFDRTWOB5 for an extra 5% off on DELTA 3 Plus and RIVER 3 standalone valid until October 25th.
Are you responding to msg’s?
cringey exposed gears. this is very unreliable for the wear and tear and dirt of the outdoors. I was highly interested with VAWT for more than a decade but my research/I realized lately it is no match to HAWT. It can explained/summarized like we "mostly" don't use vertical blades for moving air.
2:47 this multimeter design is at least 20 years old and which I bought during college. It works to this day with some quirks. However, a US company R&D using the cheapest available multimeter could be red flag.
Can they put another generator on top? Have one on the bottom and one on the top, the shaft could surely be extended to add it?
You advertise battery storage, you say the output. But not the size of the battery???????
why isn't there a MPPT CHARGE CONTROLLER for wind power
That's probably my favourite video on the channel so far. Two nerds nerding out with their big toys, and showing all the design process and the hurdles from lab to production. I just love it
No matter how the wind turbine is designed, don’t put it in an area with modest average annual wind speeds - wind speed is everything- as the power generated varies as the cube of wind speed - this means if wind speed doubles, you get 8 times the power - don’t put wind turbines in places where the average wind speed is least than 15 kilometres per hour - this is also why you want your wind turbine to be high! Like 50 feet above your roof…as houses, trees etc. slow the wind down dramatically. (Did my mech eng thesis on windpower in ‘81 😉)
Also this specific type of turbine is not particularly efficient. The power is pulsing with the rectified sine of the attack angle, because you get less thrust when it's facing anywhere except directly upwind, so that's a lot of windpower wasted already. Making them swept prevents this problem, but also reduces efficiency directly by converting some of the windpower into vertical thrust on the bearings. And the downwind lobe is reducing efficiency directly by 27% on top of that, because it generates drag. The upwind lobe also works purely through drag, which is not aerodynamically efficient compared to lift. The reason this turbine works at all is because the same half-barrel lobe shape has different coefficients of drag depending if it's facing the wind or is opposing it (1.4 vs 0.4 respectively).
I can see use cases where it would outperform the wind turbine but yes your correct in general and most use cases the higher the better
Some energy is better than NO energy
Each person would have to make their own decision on this - if the unit is able to function reliably and without any significant maintenance costs for 10-20 years it might pay for itself. For commercial purposes it’s likely a non-starter anyways based on what another poster mentioned in greater detail, Savonius type turbines are nowhere near the efficiency of the standard 3 blade wind turbine. It’ll boil down to final price and average wind speeds in an area. I live almost directly at the base of an escarpment so winds are generally attenuated by it, whereas up on top it can be much more windy, only .5 miles away at most. Part of the appeal could also be to off-grid folks looking to augment their energy availability.
@@willm5814 I could see this designed into the side of a building or on top of a shorter one in a city full of sky scrapers. The buildings would redirect the available air and you’d get a Bernoulli effect
I find the cost difference with solar a big disadvantage. This unit with a max power delivery during a few percent of the time of around 500 W costs 6000 dollars. That money can buy several 400 w solar panels and a few kwh of battery storage. And solar delivers power during a far larger portion of the time. That means systems like these are only interesting in areas where the sun does not shine for large amounts of time like in the far north during winter when a day will only last a few hours. In almost all other cases solar will be a more economical solution.
@dropshot1967 you're trying to compare wind to solar. That's like trying to compare your car to your truck. They serve different purposes. The point here is if you have good wind in your area you will want to get the best technology to capitalize on that otherwise wasted power. We have always advocated (from the beginning) that people should have BOTH wind and solar on their property if they have good levels of both resources. Price-wise, solar was terribly expensive in the beginning and then after 10 - 15 years started coming down significantly. The same thing will happen with our turbines as we push into mas-production levels. The key is to first have tech worthy of further development and investment.
@@HarmonyTurbines I am a big fan of wind turbines 😜 I have owned part of one and currently stil invest in offshore wind farms.
But I have to admit that these home wind turbines just do not make sense compared to solar and batteries. Even in winter $6000 will get you more power in most places in the world and negligible maintenance compared to a wind turbine. For balance you can get less solar panels and more battery storage.
There may be some places where this makes sense, but that is a niche market.
@@SolAce-nw2hf New tech is always much more costly in the beginning but if we do our job right and make solid products, continually improving as we go, then costs will drop and the tech will make more and more sense for the average person as the product matures. -Just the same way it happened with solar.
@@HarmonyTurbinesYours is the most excited I’ve been for a wind turbine design ever. Collecting wind energy presents so many engineering challenges.
@@HarmonyTurbines You are right. Scaling up to mass production could lower the price. The plastic prototype keeps coming back to me as something you could build at a low cost. There are also innovations with recycling used wind turbine blades into a new product (3D printable if I remember correctly). You could also make a small gadget like version that charges phones while hiking (pops out of walking stick) or make something that lowers into the ground (or ship deck) when the wind is not there to make it something millionaires want to impress their friends. You really need to find the application where this makes sense and a large solar panel does not or maybe needs some help in winter.
Good luck and don't give up!
As a teenager in the 70s I worked for a man developing a savonius rotor. (Baum, Sr., et al U.S. Pat. No. 4,177,009;) it is interesting to see another design to slow it in a high wind. He started with 50 gallon drums offset. The biggest issue to getting it profitable was generators could'nt hold up to the power.
@padraigAZ please contact us from our main website or send us an email. I'd love to discuss a few things with you that might save us some time in the end. The big challenge for us right now is RPM ranges for generators that we're testing. It's like the wild-wild west out there. I love your sentence "The biggest issue to getting it profitable was generators couldn't hold up to the power." -That is a GREAT problem to have and one we're happy to tackle. So any info you can share to help further our cause would be greatly appreciated.
@@HarmonyTurbinestwo words: Regenerative Braking
@@rowanshole:
Your idea seems confused. For “regenerative braking”, the generator handles the power. So what problem are you solving?
What you might mean is to increase the stator voltage so that more power can be transferred at a higher voltage but without increasing the current. But it will still be constrained by upper limits of what output voltage can be utilized by the rectifier.
@@denverbraughler3948 no, I mean having another generator that runs when the unit is overpowered. Basically, one generator to deal with low wind speed and another to deal with higher wind events.
@@rowanshole so ~2x the price, hence the profitable
That small windtunnel test.. A higher voltage (OCV) only tells you it is spinning faster.. Measure Watts if you want to know its power. Also: it may be efficient and good in slow "dirty" air, but when low to the ground and not that big, the power will be small. That said, I do like the product a lot! I would consider buying it.
Quite some time ago, some friends of mine were approached to invest in a wind turbine startup. I was asked to do a verification of the potential power capacity of the prototype, in a real world setting. So, I set it up for a 'Brake Horse Power' test at their site, with my instruments etc. The measurements confirmed my initial views, when it showed it could generate 92 watts @ 22kmph winds (far less than their claims). They were somewhat taken aback, and pointed to their demo that was pumping water. I ashed what was the GPM over the elevation head. The calculation returned a similar result - 95 Watts @ 23kmph. My friends decided to mot invest. Many others lost all their money, when the firm went under as they were unable to produce the power levels they claimed.
Have a 1kw wind turbine ... You MUST MUST MUST be living in a very very windy area for any reasonable power output from a micro turbine.
These are really exciting! I live downwind and just offshore from Lake Superior. Solar is suboptimal due to heavy cloud cover much of the time, but I very frequently have sustained wind in the 15-40mph range. If I could get couple of these installed, I would be off-grid for both home/lodge and shop electricity. I already use an electric chainsaw, lawn mower, etc. and this would make electric vehicles quite attractive. Michigan’s Upper Peninsula has electricity costs that are among the highest in the US and we lose power annually with storms, further adding to the appeal.
If you encounter anyone with cutting edge micro-hydro solutions for a low head stream, I’d love to see that as well.
This was great, thanks for posting it. Subscribed.
Just a thought on it, getting a variable speed transmission from the turbine to the generator could help with ensuring a better range on the output going into the generator. As well as setting up the gearing for a common(cheap) generator. Throw in something like a flywheel to dampen out the fluctuations in wind speed.
Sounds expensive though
Also there is most likely too much power loss through the transmission. Hope not!
The mass for the turbine itself could act as a flywheel. Make the whole thing out of stainless steel so it'd be relatively cheap to produce while also being quite heavy, but not so heavy that gentle wind has a hard time getting it to move.
Add a Cvt transmission
@@tllt4983those CVTs seems unreliable?
Weather extremes are a must for the creation of wind turbines.
(Hot weather, high wind, heavy rain, snow, etc). Would love these to work, can't wait for the future
Many decades will pass ...
I've been following Harmony for more than a year now, and this is the design that I would buy
@@andyhamilton5926 You would buy this thing? Based on what?
Price? Efficiency? Durability? Quality? Output? Design? Warranty? Value? Ease of installation? Track record? Reputation?
Shiny brochure or video?
Something that this video does not mention but as someone who tried to make his home as energy efficient as possible is that given that 2/3 of all American housing is single family homes in master planned communities that have HOAs. These HOAs often don’t have permissive by laws and are a significant impediment in any modifications to your home. I had to jump through many hoops just to get a solar array, heat pumps to augment the existing hvac, I was denied many a times in my attempt to plant native species in my yard to help with the any standing water. I was denied attempts to convert my front yard into a cloverleaf surface rather than grass that required constant maintenance and a lot more water.
@@kapilchhabria1727 google says 1/3 are HOA, not 2/3
The grossly inefficient land use and resulting car-dependency of R1-zoned tracts of housing is itself a problem that needs to be fixed.
We need higher density and mixed-use zoning development to replace dead/underutilized shopping malls and their massive parking moats, and along all the stroads (which themselves need to be converted to "complete streets" with bicycle lanes and bus/tram lanes so people have options to get around other than cars).
If more people can live closer to the places and things they want to get to (work, school, grocery shopping, dining and entertainment) and have different ways to get there and back, that would solve a whole lot of problems.
In Washington state, zeroscape and solar panel installation may not be restricted by HOA bylaws. I live in a 48 home community which by state law, our HOA cannot disallow roof solar installation on my home.
States can pass laws stating HOAs cannot stop solar installations, merely provide some reasonable guidelines, like Michigan did in July 2024. Make the case to the state, elect representatives that support it, and then HOAs lose that authority.
@@kapilchhabria1727 solution: do NOT live in an HOA. Power corrupts. Do not choose slavery to anyone!
2:08 No expenses spared on the test meter.
A voltage tells us nothing at all. What load is the voltage across?
A few points:
1) The power available from wind goes as the cube of the wind speed. On a 400W turbine rated at 25MPH, at 12.5MPH, you are going to get 400/8=50W
2) A maximum power point controller can adaptively work with a turbine to optimize the power output but the action will be fairly slow. A good engineer can design you one that will work well.
3) Keeping bad weather off the bearings and the generator is only a little tricky. Rain mostly falls down.The bottom of the rotor can be an upside down cup to make it shed the rain away rather than letting it hit the bearing.
Power potential increases by 8 but realistically power produced is 6 to 7 times as it's scaling is INSANE.
For perspective a 25 ft wind turbine making 10KW @ 20 mph makes 490KW @ 80 MPH using a 7 multiplier scaling. Now seek images for generators that large regardless of fuel preference for a size reference.
@@RP-hn1qc In many designs, the scaling would be greater than a factor of 8. There are fixed losses to consider.
@@kensmith5694 My calculations were using the graphs directly from the turbine manufacturers 5 mph to 20 mph where I essentially extended the graph at doubling wind speed intervals assuming same efficiency for theoretical contemplation. Not ideal, but it's closer to just overestimating saying "it's 8 multipliers, trust me bro."
@@RP-hn1qc 8 is from physics.
The energy content of a chunk of moving air will follow:
E = (1/2) * M * V^2
E = energy
M = Mass
V = Velocity
How many of those that go past per second, brings in another "V" leading to a V^3
@@kensmith5694 🤔 We're in agreement but you seem to insist an argument. I'm in total agreement 8 is power potential but the losses will scale as you build it to be stronger (heavier or larger) to sustain the load regardless of blade rotational speed. Hence, 6 to 7 being the true net gain of doubling speed.
Been following these guys since the beginning, hope they go to market soon !!!
They never will.
This is why I like watching your videos? This is a great idea. This remind me of reading Popular Mechanics back in the day when I was a kid. To see people are stating to be more inventive again. This is why I'm thinking of going back to school for mechanical engineering at age 72 going on 40, ha ha! Nice show dude! Peace!
Great video. I really enjoyed the facility tour.
I think your point at the end is particularly important. Cost parity isn't when a 500W wind turbine costs the same as a 500W solar panel. Roughly speaking, wind blows twice as often as the sun shines. (Not a made up number. Solar projects often assume 25% of the time a panel will generate electricity and a turbine will produce power 50% of the time.) Parity can be achieved if a turbine costs is twice that of a panel. Even getting to twice the cost of solar will be a challenge, so it's an uphill battle for sure. I hope this company succeeds!
25mph wind blowing twice as often as sun shines?
i don't think so. (that could be true in Antarctica though)
and anything below 25mph will produce only tiny fraction of the rated 400w.
If you are 'assuming' it is because you made up that number.
Wind projects vary the design of their turbine to reach that 50%. it is not an inherant value from the technology. A larger % means lower power production. You could have 100% generation time if you used a child's toy pinwheel but you won't get any electricity from it.
10:34 said the goal is at 25mph making 400-500 watts.
But HOPES to make 20 watts at 7mph. UK average wind speed is 9 miles per hour......
So hoping for maybe 30 watts at 9mph with a turbine that big?!
A 400 watt solar panel is £60. Can't see how this is a step forward.
That magnetic bearing is very cool
Agreed. The coolest part of the whole presentation. If those batteries last even half the claimed 50 years - seems totally worth it.
11:50 time stamp
Thanks for the interesting topic. It’s not just the energy capture, it’s also the extreme weather mitigation that is so interesting about wind turbines. This is something significant in hurricane/ typhoon/ tornado locations of the world.
Ps love your new vibrant graphics
It all comes down to the math. How much does it cost, how long is the service life, and what are the expected maintenance costs? Compare those numbers with average wind speeds in your region, the expected generation value and expected time for it to pay for itself. If there's a better than 50% chance of it paying for itself in a decade, it's probably worth it. Being in Canada with our oblique sun angles and long winter nights, a product like this would be much more competitive against solar, provided it is engineered well against being impeded by cold, snow, and ice.
@@jamesmcpherson1590 Especially on the coast. We live on the sea 20km up an inlet with no obstructions! Yes, the Nova Scotia wind can roar! 🦁
I love this video Ricky. I live in San Diego as well on top of the mountain. I think right near you. I’m in La Mesa and honestly, I get a crap load of wind up here because I’m on top. Things in my bathroom also rust because I get that ocean breeze. I would love to try something like this out in the future to offset the night energy usage. Great video man keep up the great work. Everything you said at the last part of the video is exactly what I want to do. Also is capture energy at night and sell it back to the grid or give it back to my batteries, etc..
Basic physics, the available wind energy in a given cross sectional area is proportional to the cube of the wind speed. So if you build a wind turbine that produces 400W at a wind speed of 25 mph then regardless of how good an alternator you have, at 7mph it can only produce (7/25)³ x 400 = 9W.
Hats off to this guy investing his time and energy into this venture. I hope it works out for him!
He's been scamming the punters for several years now. To date, nothing to show for it.
I also like this design because the bucket that is being pushed by the wind, also dumps its exhaust into the upwind bucket to help offset the force required to divert the airflow.
But this means that that air is no longer available to push the upwind bucket so it's not obvious how it offers any advantage.
This is such a freaking cool episode. Thanks so much!
They started working on that concept in at least the early 1900s - at one time i had some early 1900s electrical engineering books with large turbines like those - I'm from a family of early generator and. Electrical engineers and generator mechanics -
Some of the turbines were mounted on rail road flat cars and on tracks that were in a circle with several flat bed cars with those turbines on them - with a brush riding a center track to transmit voltage to a large power house bank of battery's -
I started working on generators in the offshore oilfields in the early 70s and have always found power generation interesting -
Great video One of the best I have seen for dealing with wind and charging problems.
Appreciate it, glad you liked it!
@@TwoBitDaVinci I'm a bit disappointed people are still giving these charlatans air-time. The "controversy" is that they are liars. This is basic theory that everyone simulates or derives for themself when studying wind power engineering. You may as well be saying newton was wrong about F = ma or that a Joul isnt actually a watt*second. The idea that no one noticed this error and only parroted what they were told is offensive to the entire industry.
@@TwoBitDaVinci A total softball job...IMO. Do your followers a favor, and ask tougher questions. At a minimum, get better versed with the physics of wind generators.
In the great plains a huge percentage of energy is from wind but the thing the million dollar turbines have gotten correct that these little ones dont is how to deal with extremes. We could get two inches of ice buildup in one night then the next day it could all melt and we could have gusts to 80mph followed by hail and lightning. Then in the summer a month of 110 degrees and no wind. If it can handle all that then it makes a lot of sense for residential if there is little or no maintenance. After all in the 1800s windmills were wide spread for water pumping. But solar panels have no moving parts and are already working here on residential homes.
Solar is so much more attractive to the average joe for so many reasons, not least of all, probably, is avoding installing a giant blender on your property lol.
Don Quixote had a windmill disorder 500 years ago..❤
I hope they take off, good wind turbine company designs.
The gap in the center is crucial for increasing efficiency, because it gives another effect similar to a Pelton turbine - air velocity changes direction and imparts more force, and it has an exhaust route that pushes against the rear of the advancing scoop and reduces low pressure drag, which is the case with a closed scoop.
You can have more than two scoops per level. 3, 4, 10 or more could work and wouldn't need to be staggered to defend against stalling as there would always be enough available torque.
Two scoops on an axle simplifies the furling mechanism and minimizes angular inertia, footprint, and gyroscopic torque.
@@denverbraughler3948 but you *want* angular inertia and torque.
Footprint? No change.
Gyroscopic torque? Meaningless - the axis of rotation won't change apart from that of the slow Earth's rotation, or if it's fixed rigidly to a ship.
There are other methods of furling or braking, such as retraction, shading or shrouding, and which can be done passively as a result of mechanical negative feedback.
I'd suggest ultra-thin G10 fiberglass sheet to bend around instead of metal. It would have lower manufacturing costs, lower replacement costs, and would be lightweight for better efficiency
Onky recycling and durability would be worse
@@kkon5tiexactly. That metal also doesn't create airborne micro plastic or nano plastic particles.
Thank you so much for going to Harmony Wind.
could you dimple the upwind side of the turbine to limit drag and gain efficiency, like the dimples on a golf ball?
I get a Lot of wind here in Porto Portugal. I want a wind turbine, but no one wants to install one for me. I gave in and installed a 3.6kwh PV solar panel system. I will still work toward adding to my system by getting the wind turbine. A harmony unit looks amazing. I would love to have one.
I wonder if the open/closing function would be cheaper to produce with a simple mechanical centrifugal linkage. You could get rid of a lot of the gearing and teeth, which tend to cost a lot to produce.
I wonder if one of these would be good to charge a backup battery system for home emergency etc.
Great video and I'm also really excited to see small scale, residential wind solutions coming to market. I have solar and battery storage and adding wind would round out my production capability. Keep us posted on the progress and can't wait to see your first installation
They have their own youtube channel that they post updates to every couple of months
This sort of reminds me of cold fusion. Everybody wants one, but it is always just around the corner. It seems like forever ago I first saw this featured on one of these science/energy programs.
I don't think this is at all similar. This is relatively cheap, it's not that complex, and has a viable market.
Considering the relatively low wattage, I could see this being better for supplemental power.
@@Toastmaster_5000- Exactly. Where wind turbines like this really shine, is in applications/situations where solar can’t, such as days/weeks of stormy weather and/or long periods of overcast conditions, which is the “Achilles Heel” of solar.
@@Toastmaster_5000 Ummmm... I wasn't saying the product was the same. I was saying the inability to bring the product to market was the same. This is a mechanical wind generator that has been in development for an eternity.
That's how I took it, not sure how that was misinterpreted. 🤷♀️ You're absolutely correct, I remember reading that these were right around the corner in popular mechanics in the early ninety's, and seems we're hearing the same things now. @@mikesheahan6906
@@mikesheahan6906 I know what you meant - I used the word "similar" (because that's what you implied by comparing to cold fusion) and ironically, similar doesn't mean same. My point is, this specific type of product hasn't been in development for an eternity. As far as I'm aware, this is a large but very specialized market (VAWTs for relatively low-mount, low-wind, minimal maintenance, small/residential scale) that hasn't really been a thing. VAWTs in general haven't really been subject to much R&D. Regardless, wind power is relatively successful and is growing in usage. Cold fusion, meanwhile, is always "just around the corner" and has been attempted by many organizations around the world at exorbitant costs where the researchers don't promise success. Quite a different situation.
Put a CVT between the turbine and the generator and add a heavy flywheel to the generator? Will be interesting to see wind combined with flywheel. The CVT can help spin the heavy flywheel from a dead stop and allow it to accelerate to a very high speed where the generator is more efficient. Edit: well it's probably not very practical due to cost and the low reliability lol
A CVT and Flywheel will double the cost. Now you made it 4 times, too expensive. How did that help?
@@MrSummitville Yeah I said it's not very practical due to cost
What about taking the rotational shaft through a “bike chain” with gearing to transfer the rotation to a flywheel, then generate off of that. Use the gearing to build up the energy of lower winds, but also could get it rotating faster.
Just a curious thought I have had
Very nice presentation! I hope that you also cover horizontal wind turbines....mounted on the ridge of common home roofs(for example). I'm assuming that the wind would accelerate and pressure would increase as it climbed the roof slope to meet the fins.
That's exactly what I was thinking. If the house happens to face prevailing winds you could get decent power out of it, and visually it'd be barely noticeable up there.
Actually, I live in a mountain canyon. Very reliable wind every single day. It would be nice to have a small turbine system as a backup.
I love wind energy. I especially love this design. I am a bit disappointed that it takes a 25 mph wind to get some good efficiency.
I’m still going to build one to charge my deep cycle batteries and light my garage. I get very little wind where I live.
My 5k of solar panels are doing extremely good.
Why not synchronize on AC as the design already has dynamic capacity control? A sensor could be used to decide when to disconnect and reconnect. I'd assume the losses are more with a charge controller and inverter setup, but haven't done the calculations.
I'm in the Colorado mountains with a wide open Western exposure! I'd love to try one.
Let’s be real… most homes have a wind speed of less than 10 MPH on a daily basis.
What we need is a small fence made of turbines that can be placed in front of the home.
4’ high, nice looking, sectional (easy to replace sections), can use both the natural wind and the wind generated by cars passing in front of the home.
YES! We'll call it the finger chopping bird killer.
@ what… birds dont fly over the house? Tell that to all the birds that get killed at Wind Farms.
Plus, who says the blades need to be sharp and rigid?
@@DrShout if it is squished, you don't need Sharp blades.
It is a great advantage of the classical Wind turbines: the danger zone is a two dimensional area most birds can avoid. In some experiments birds were breeding on the turbine - yeah, they took what was offered and avoided the blade area.
Bats have much more problems avoiding big wind turbines. Fortunately they fly only at certain days in the whole year in high enough altitudes above 100 meters above ground.
So, here starts the problem: a fence is far too low and dangerous. Single family homes are still too low.
What makes sense is to have high buildings with turbines.
A solar fence however: that works very well!
Hell ya, I'd buy one and even more. I've been following Harmony for a couple of years now. Loving seeing this new progress.
Been following Harmony for quite some time. They are driven to exploit this segment of wind power generation & I firmly believe they will assemble the optimum combination in this market~
@calvincheney7405 thank you for your support. We're doing our best to come through with solid tech for a world in need.
Mass, velocity, area is why wind generators are very large. In terms of energy, these things are pinwheels.
I would love to try out one of these. The only thing you need is fetch for the wind. Great episode. Keep up your good work thanks.
Interesting , Thank you . I hope they work and can scale
Thank you! It helped me understand a bit (or two) more regarding efficiency and reliability. It also helped allay some of my reservations regarding wind power--primarily its danger for bats and birds. My understanding is that the big, horizontal shaft wind turbines take quite a toll on flying vertebrates in general but more so on raptors and bats. The blade tips on those things are going in excess of 100 mph, sometimes far in excess of 100 mph. The vertical shaft turbines aren't as fast because their radius is a couple of meters at the most, at least on this video. Possibly more important is that a screen surrounding these would be possible while being utterly out of the question for the horizontal-shaft turbines.
No screen needed, birds and bats see a solid object in front of them and simply fly around.
@@fr3dfixit945 there have been extensive studies on the effects of wind power plants on birds and bats, but no effect on bird or bat population could be proven. Hots are pretty rare and don't endanger the population.
Still, new offshore wind parks have bird tracking and slow down the rotors when a swarm approaches, but they've also shown that birds avoid wind parks altogether.
A recent study in Germany checked for dead birds in wind parks very thoroughly over a long period but couldn't find significant dead birds. Not more than expected of natural causes in the area.
And why did it have gears? Did he explain it?
Perhaps to get started with Profils spreaded and with higher wind getting closed especially for storm security or shut down?
There are many studies out there comparing the gaps (x and y) between the blades and the best Solition. Why is the gear this big?
Why not a linear closing mechanism?
Savonius also generates lift. But there are better profiles, eliptical, modified Bach, Benesh. Profiles easy to reproduces with Alu-sheets.
I always appreciate your thoughtful research and presentations. You are a blessing. God bless you and your family.
There have been many ideas on how to get power from wind but nothing beats the horizontal shaft turbine with only a few blades. There is good reason this type dominates large scale wind power.
Interested in knowing more about snow and ice accumulation effects on the mechanical components for cold climates.
If they combined those with a flywheel, would that allow it to continue turning & generating power for longer when the wind stops blowing? Or does that just make it more difficult to start turning and destroy any benefit of the flywheel?
Can you do one on the ridge vent turbine? That one, at least esthetically, is pleasing to me, because it's so low profile. These say, I'm definitely a wind turbine.
I've been thinking about those a lot, since I first saw a video about them. I want to know more.
I'm not sure if it has been suggested, or tested, have they considered venting those tops/bottoms with angled slats similar to a HVAC vent in a home? That angle might add to the torque generated(?) as well as allow the 'caught' wind to escape.
Why not cover the right side with a deflector that pushes more wind into the left side? Deflector attached to the outer frame, not the drive axle, always facing the wind either by shaping that 'fin' or by a trailing 'rudder'? Seems a fairly easy way to optimise the differential wind. What am I missing?
Their website only shows 400W wind turbines, which is very low. An average American home needs a 10KW system to meet its energy needs.
My house is drawing far less than 10KW right now. It is dark outside. Wind could carry the load
Darned tootin, I would buy one if available. Da Vinci, I've got an ask of you if you think it's worthwhile: water condensing tech, desalination in light of cheap renewables, etc.
Thanks and much love
Totally want a vert wind mill on my roof. Live in El Paso.. windy town. Lots of us have flat roofs here. Would be easy to install one of these on my roof next to my solar and boost the homes power generation.. especially at night. My concern would be.. we get REALLY windy quite regularly. Like 30-50 knots is not uncommon. The occasional 50+ at least a couple times a year. I see this thing can close up, i guess for those times when it would become damaging to operate it. But i would be curious what designs exist that can actually continue to operate in high winds. Like the 30-50 mph range. They seem to want these to operate at peak, around 25mph. When do they begin to close? And do they close completely above.. 30 or whatever.. or do they close partially and try to maintain their peak rpm?
@airheart1 that's the entire reason for harmony. If you read our information on our website you'll see that the point is to NEVER stop producing. Why would we want to WASTE those great high winds. Our furling system simply lets us control our RPMs and keep right on producing at maximum (or bonus) power levels safely right on through those high wind events. This is where Harmony could really shine because other small scale turbines actually have to stop spinning to protect themselves. We have a good educational video (1m long) right on our main website demonstrating this for you.
@@HarmonyTurbines excellent. That answers my question. I’ll have a look. And wishing you guys luck bringing this to market down the road.
Looking at this WIND TURBINE which is Direct-Drive to the generator, what about a Gear-Box or a Automatic Transmission that changes gears for the different wind speed? Like in a car, RPM changes into a higher gear the faster it moves but the RPM is roughly the same.
Could there be an option to have an “air scoop” like I see at the beginning of the video referred to as the wind tunnel. There would need to be a weather vain at the top that would provide wind direction and speed information to software / computer chip. The air scoop would face the wind. If the wind was too strong &/or erratic the scoop could face away from the wind to protect the structure. Power and mechanical structure would be required of course to move and lock the “air scoop” in the appropriate position. Overall there would be a huge increase in net power output. As usual, it comes down to cost benefit to build and maintain. It is well worth looking into.
I have been following them for awhile now. Been a very "Long" journey and yet I still remain hopeful that this product will be a "Great" solution in the end. I have been wondering "When" Harmony will begin shipping actual product though? Yes, I remain very hopeful and will ultimately be excited when finally there is a product offering to the consumer market. Go Harmony Turbines....
The ancient ones they have to grind grain in Iran have large structures to channel the wind into the turbine like a funnel. Surely that would increase wind speed and control the direction as well. Perhaps walls or roofs of existing structures could help
Wouldn't it be better to start considering DC appliances to reduce conversions?
Exactly. I'm working on this around my homestead using cordless 12vdc and ryobi 40vdc batteries now with many diy applications. I.e. led lighting, can openers, ptc small ovens, etc.
but it also need conversion
i would like to know where a consistent 25 mph is available and who wants to live in a windy condition like that all the time...is the wind sped up that much more 40-50 feet above the ground...if you live near a lake, it may me a good idea or an ocean because it always seems to be windy in those areas
I'd buy it. Been waiting 20 years.
I already have a spot to install it with regular lake winds but protected mostly from extreme weather events 😊
Im just waiting to hear they're a plug and play system with minimal input and so far it's what I'm seeing 😃👍
Im looking for a system capable of powering 2 homes with full battery backup and grid tied to have lines for repairs and calm weather 😀
Love this... I had no idea workable wind turbines could get this small and efficient! I'm sure with a little bit of AI to help solve some of these problems, you would be able to overcome the stumbling blocks at the moment? The future's bright! or Windy! 😎👍
Do these wind turbine controllers have Max Power Point Tracking (adjusting the motor load, to maximize the power output of the system)? This would auto-adjust with wind-speed, air-temp, air-humidity).
Great episode, the guys here have thought this thru well, I like the magnetic bearing idea. At this point in time though, I think solar is more bang for buck in regards to cost, space and consistency.
Great episode. Better wind is always further up above the ground. This type of turbine appears very heavy so I don't know how to raise it safely to reach height with good wind.
Seems to me that focus should be on designs that exploit/maximize-for low wind conditions and harmonize those with the top-end wind speeds where the big scale energy is. A "farm" with many low speed gens + 1 high speed gen to keep feeding the batteries... maximally.
You’re dealing with two fundamental issues:
- The Betz Limit
- The Power in Wind equation
The Betz Limit is basically a theoretical number of the maximum efficiency you can possibly get. At most, only 59.3% of the kinetic wind energy can be used to spin the turbine and generate electricity. Remember this is a theoretical limit; in practice, you’re going to be closer to 40%.
The Power in Wind equation is given as:
P = 1/2 x ρ x A x V³
With:
P = power in Watts
ρ = air density (kg/m³, at about 1.2 at sea level)
A = Swept area of the blades (m²)
V = Velocity of the wind
So, no matter how good your turbine is, you will get in practice at most 40% of the wind energy converted to electricity. To capture the wind energy in the first place, you have two variables to increase (one in your control, the other not): swept area and wind velocity. The smaller you make the turbine, the faster you need to spin to make any meaningful energy. The only variable you control is the swept area, which means making the blades as big as possible.
Note that the velocity is cubed in that equation, so you’ll generate much, much less power at low wind speeds. No amount of 'finding the right generator' will change this.
In other words, small wind turbines don’t work except in ideal situations because physics.
Well explained. Tens of thousands ppl who've tried wind micro generation wish they'd know that!
that's pretty much what I've always heard... low speed wind isn't going to produce much power, and the winds around a building are just not high enough to be productive. Yes, you can generate some power, but the cost per watt is so much higher than for a wind turbine placed a hundred feet above the ground.
Solar only converts 23% at best of the incoming energy, Low efficiency isn't the major problem, its the low energy available in the source that's the problem for small scale
@@nicholaskeur Exactly, that's why the Power in Wind equation is important to take into account. At low wind speeds, there just isn't any power there with a tiny swept area - and any effort on trying to find 'the right generator' or 'increasing voltage' or what have you are pointless.
Exactly. Small wind is hopeless
Solar is better by 10x as most home owners will rarely have access to decent wind
Besides, solar has no moving parts and makes no noise
you could likely achieve a much more stable RPM of the output for the generator using a simple variable gearbox or CVT. having a constant output RPM or limit would simplify the generator spec, as it would be operating near it's optimal RPM range whenever the wind turbine is in motion. i would gear the turbine so the output spins at high rpm even with low wind. this would require a high torque wind turbine design, i think this could work well with this design.
Yes but as wind speed goes down so does input torque
Adding cost and moving parts, but interesting thought.
I currently have a 3KW solar without battery - and planning to upgrade to a battery+solar+wind system to aim for an annual net-zero energy consumption (still utilising the grid to balance over/under production reducing the required size of the system)
I've seen art that looks exactly like this design, wind toys/sculptures just moving with the wind on the side of the road or roundabouts
My revivifier says, “I’m waiting for a turbine from M C Escher” ❤
What if you had reduction gears to help add rpm going between shaft and generator? At low wind speeds it could be geared up before it hits the generator. Like how a mechanical watch uses a low rotation power source to power other parts at different rpm’s. Maybe a conical shaft to help increase rpm at low wind speeds feeding the generator. Just a thought…thanks for the video. I want a VAT to support my solar also way down here in western Puerto Rico. 🏝️
What's the North like for heat? Fantastic idea with the magnetic bearings but heat would permanently damage the strength, and idk if all metal construction would attract more heat on a hot day or help regulate the bearings temperature :o genius with the adjusting openings
Would it make sense to have two turbines (1) small for low speeds and (1) large for higher velocity.
And can i charge the same batteries with wind and solar?
The Harmony turbines have a lot of what i call "What if" technology i have been in the HVAC controls industry for 40 years and the opposing magnet bearing checks off one of those "What if's".
Good sound engineering and the company has the mindset to always watch return on investment. After all bang for the buck is still king.
Most people cannot cost justify a wind turbine.
I wonder if a shroud that rotates around the turbine so that it can always face the wind could turn the 10 mph wind into a more useable speed. It would certainly make the foot print larger and add some complexity, but given that the relationship of windspeed to power output is exponential it would seem to be a valuable complication.
Domestic wind has been and always be a bad idea apart from a few very special situations.
21:26 the verticals turbine can also receive wind from any direction. Conventional wind mills are either fixed to a direction, or needs to reorient
So do the turbines close up on their own when the wind speed increases or do you have to pay attention to the weather and close it up yourself with controllers?
So about snow: Does anyone have data points on how much snow affects their PV panels when set at tilt = latitude? Personally, I never have issues, at 45° the snow slides off the panels as soon as there is any sun. Anyone have other results?
Considering that October and November are locally very cloudy and Windy, it makes sense to try to capture some of the energy, as long as I don't have to regularly get a 10-ton picker truck out at $400/hour for maintenance.
There is a reason for VAWT's to be largely ignored since the beginning of wind energy, they are a lot less efficient than HAWT's , both in trems of energy production and in terms of construction and maintenance. The numbers speak for themselves, just ask yourself how many VAWT's do you see , either commercial scale or micro wind ?? The idea of attaching a wind turbine to a house, as alluded to in other comments is also a bad idea as the vibrations transmitted into the house would drive the occupants mad 😢 .
VAWTs have an entirely different use case from HAWTs; the latter are massive, requiring a lot of dedicated space and operating best where there are strong, sustained winds, while the former are meant for more compact spaces and production at lower and more variable windspeeds. The relative efficiency would only be a relevant issue if one were pondering replacing one with the other. As it is, what's relevant is whether a VAWT is capable of making economically-viable use of wind energy in places where you _can't_ put a HAWT.
@@dwc1964The VAWT is *NOT* economically viable, and probably never will be.
All HAWT, No CATL 😅
It sounds like a really good solution for farms and rural areas at least. I am not sure it would have good acceptance in suburban areas.
It would be interesting to see power via solar or wind rated in w/24hr or over a week, month etc. Wind does provide less like for like, but over time, it might be comparable if exposed to wind permanently etc. but having both might be a good solution to maintain topped up batteries around the clock.
I'm definitely interested for a cold climate coastal application.
Definitely
I'd like to see even smaller versions for a mobile camper. A collection of 4 - 1 at each corner might get you a total of 200-400 watts over the night but it's a perfect supplement to your solar system. Especially if it means you don't have to worry about your backup generator kicking on while you're trying to sleep.
That's the market I'm waiting for, there's got to be millions of campervans around.
The bearings need to be top quality & easily changed though, there's nothing worse than a noisy bearing resonating through the frame of your 'van.
@@alanhat5252 the magnetic bearing in this video would do wonders on a smaller version.
I wonder why we can't run two sets of charge controllers to solve the problem in the video. We have slow rpm charge controllers and we have high rpm charge controllers. Switch between the two as the rpm increases
Please let us know when they become available.
Never ...
A very important part of the video was when he explained that most people only get average wind speeds of far less than the 12 mph minimum turbines need to produce anything. I recall someone complain that his turbine only produces power for few minutes before the wind gets so fast it shuts down; for some reason they did not want to accept that a tower that is too short and too close to trees and his house is not going to get good wind so the problem was not that they were only getting about 200W from 30+mph winds but that they only rarely got the 12 or15 mph that their 2kW or 3kW turbine needed to even start moving...
That magnetic bearing is such a great idea -- dust, dirt and water will not hurt it.
It just needs to be shielded from particulates like dust.
This comment and others like it make me think this is a video to drive up interest in the company so people invest. Then after having collected the money they will drop the truth about all of those things "dust, dirt, and water" will indeed hurt the magnetic bearings pretty badly and the replacement cost will not make it worth it over standard bearings.
Dust, dirt, and natural water sources have ferrous particles that would be drawn to the magnets. Those magnets then moving will collect enough to grind against each other until they eventually fracture. You could isolate from those elements, but it's comments like yours that keep getting repeated that isn't the intention.
This video didn't mention the noise they would expect. That's the biggest factor in home wind to date, none of the other obstacles mentioned are as great as the noise issue. Having the wind capture turn slowly is the best way to mitigate noise so far.
@@djdickey Naw. Harmony has been at this for a while already. I always see these comments but they've proven to be very legitimate with consistent updates to design and with what they're working on/stuck on. The generator issue is their biggest thing standing in the way now. They basically need a custom designed charge controller and once that's figured out they should be pretty close to small scale production before ramping up full scale
@@Fenthule you'd think they would mention how they've overcome the problems of existing systems. They didn't. They appear to be reinventing the wheel. The magnetic thrust bearings are fine, but now you're increasing costs or making failures critical (dangerous). Furthermore they don't seem to acknowledge off the shelf programmable generator controllers exist and seem to be after making a proprietary (read expensive) controller.
Cool, but again, how long until I can buy it and deploy it at my home?
“deploy” means ‘unfold’ in French
Unfortunately there are a lot of mature trees around here so I would have to put one on top of a 20m tower to really reap the benefits. In a suburban sprawl or areas with a lot of farmland or plains, where trees aren't really an impediment, it would be a great solution to supplement solar. Having a whole house generator that can run on RNG or bio diesel (treated for long term storage of course) would be a great solution to fill any possible energy gaps during prolonged inclement weather.