I have had the wheels loosen on my ender 3 through another method: the gantry cable/umbilical was rubbing against the wheel, so every time the bed passed that point in the wrong direction it would undo the wheel very slightly each time. This was the big reason I put cable chains on my printer, just to keep the cables away from the moving bits. I also put the stiffer yellow springs on too, which likely would have been enough on their own
Finally! Ive been saying this on several channels and no one acknowledged it. The easiest solution is just a simple jam nut that tightens into the wheel as the wheel tries to loosen the nut tightens against the wheel more. Even on a very low jerk it will loosen over months.
Never have been able to get used to the “per cubic second” or “per square second” because of its area and volume connotation. At school we were taught expressing it as “per second cubed” or “per second squared”. The other one that gets my hair rising is the “high rate of of speed” used by police in their reporting in many countries (English speaking ones anyway) because I’m so used to rate referring to a change, like rate of change of speed is acceleration. Now I picture these criminals doing acceleration runs up and down a road when the were likely only speeding, that is to say, travelling at a “high speed” or “high rate of change of distance”. This is another case of too many words. By the way, nothing to do with loose wheels or calculus, but have you noticed that the common expression “go ahead and” that many people include as a longer version of “um” does not change the sense of the sentence in any way whether it’s include or not?
I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you there 😂 Yes I had noticed. Interesting thoughts on cubes too...the more I think about it, the more it hurts my brain, I think I played myself with that joke!
Instead of "meters per second squared" or "meters per second cubed" I prefer to use "meters per second per second" or "meters per second squared per second" while thinking about it. Expressing a rate of change over time that way makes it a lot easier for me.
Think it another way. Velocity is straigh forward distance over time whre the time is a fixed period, like m/s or km/h etc. Once familiar with what 1m/s and 5m/s is you can visualize the acceleration in m/s/s whre you have (m/s)/s meaning the gain or loss of velocity in one second. A 1g acceleration means you will gain 9.81m/s every second. Same for other confusing units. Like energy and torque having the same units. Joules are energy unit and one way to see energy is when you apply a force over a set distance hence Newtons for force and meter over the distance traveled with that constant force. So 1J=1N*1m. The ambiguity comes when interpreting torque where 1N force on a 1meter lever will generate a rotational torque of 1Nm. So in fact you can easily state torque values in Joules to add to confusion. A lot of other simplifcations and grouping of known units come from the mass acceleration force and energy since mass times acceleration is a force, and force times distance is joules and joules over time are watts and force times speed are watts. So for certain units you might get weird Watt/Joules/m/s mixups (mathematically and physically correct but ambiguous). So for an example if i say to tighten a bolt to 50Nm but no more than 10Nm/s (beacuse of the weird material that may shatter if tighten fast) i could say tighten to 10W for 5 seconds or tighten to 0.0138888Wh in at least 5 seconds.
My Ender 3 V2 has those aftermarket orange springs. The rear left wheel would completely come off because my cable guide somehow went under the bed and undid the wheel with each Y pass. Solved it by printing a separator to keep the cable upright (I've tried cable chains but didn't like it.)
I have just got back from the pub and watched this then.came straight here to see if someone had posted exactly this, it's very common on the v2 there is even a video of it turning it completely around every time the y axis moved
I have an Ender 3 v2 and the problem of the "moving wheels" was also present. In the end I resolved changing the springs with the yellow ones , after 2 month's the printer is perfect
I had a wheel drop just a couple of weeks ago. A failed print made a huge blob that was dragging across the build plate, both pressing it down and creating vibration as the head dragged across the textured PEI. I had left for the day after seeing it start fine, and when I got home I had a blog monster, spaghetti, and a dropped wheel. (The head had hit a small blob, dislodged the part which stuck to the hot end, then sticking to the hot filament, creating the problem is the best I have worked out.) It was very interesting seeing this and learning what happened to dislodge that wheel! Thank you!
btw, jerk is different in marlin, it's maximum permitted instantaneous change in velocity, in units of mm/s (same as speed). It shouldn't be called jerk, but it is unfortunately.
@@LostInTech3D unlikely? It seems people are generally migrating to junction deviation. If that's the case, there'd be no incentive to rename a legacy implementation
Great video and loved the humor! Watching that thing vibrate and wobble was hilarious! I've seen inkjets do the same thing. haha Also, a very good point in your video.... DON'T RUN OTHER PEOPLE'S G-CODE!! Too true!! Thank you again.
A good solution is to change the springs for a stiffer one (like the orange ones) and adjust the bed at the bottom limits, just when the heat-protection from the heating resistor touches the Y carriage. If you print something heavy and tall it will also shake the bed and unscrew them even at low jerk/accelerations Best solution to prints fast and tall is to get a CoreXY
I woke up at 3am to a bumping sound in the basement last night. All four wheels had fallen of my printer and the hot end was carving its way around the top surface of my print. I had checked the z heighted before the print started, although I don't know how tight my tramming wheels were. Even though my jerk and acceleration settings are very low, it was a large flat print that did involve hours and hours of back and forth.
This happened in the middle of the night last night,the back wheel fell off and then it trashed my Glock stand print and eventually knocked that off the bed as well,bed leveling has been my biggest issue with the ender3, it's even grinded holes in the bed,thank you for this video
I had 3 wheels fall off after printing for about an hour. I was printing a large print where it was creating a large base for a dice roller. The printer was doing the fill for the flat floor. This caused the printer to be printing at a 45 degree angle. On the next level it would go the opposite direction. Since the wheels were losing up it caused the printer to make bumps that it would hit and cause more of a problem of shaking the bed until the wheels fall off.
One thing I can think of is if the bolt got it's threads caught on the edge of the hole only a small amount of movement on the wheel would cause all of the spring tension to be unloaded, then it might take a noisy stepper an hour or so to buzz it off
Jerk set to 100. That was hilarious. Thanks for the video and explanation of jerk, I had no idea the 3rd derivative of position with respect to time made any sense.
Mine come loose when bashing the heated bed to get parts unstuck after a print job. It's just a tenth of a turn here and there until it's fully loose and can unscrew on its own during printing. Yellow springs are much more reliable in this regard. I think it's the real reason yellow springs holds a leveling better.
This may be correctable by peening the threaded inserts. Peening is a trick some machinists use to make a standard nut act like a locknut. All you do is take a centerpunch and make a couple divots on the top of a nut and it distorts the threads enough that it binds slightly when threaded on the bolt.
Same, I was forced into this upgrade after one of the stock springs cut into the solder mask on the bottom of the bed and lost its springiness in the resulting high current event...
They undo because it's a lot more likely than doing up . The force trying to unscrew is both the spring and gravity. Stopping it undoing is only resisted by friction , anything that reduces friction wil cause it to undo.
My Ender 3 v2 use to loosen the wheels over time. I never adjusted the jerk so I can’t say what was causing it. I put a drop of blue Loctite on each wheel & it hasn’t done it since. This might have happened before I replaced the stock springs.
i took some pliers to pinch the threads a little so the nut wont rotate freely. never had them coming lose. i also removed that tab on the z endstop to lower it 5mm further so i can crank down the springs even more.
Yeah, so I have experienced the wheels loosening up (not falling off), but not for quite some time now. It happened to me after I installed my BLTouch on my CR-10. I figured out that it was because I hadn't removed the Zee (or Zed for weirdos) stop and bracket which made it so I couldn't tighten the springs down enough to get it tension enough. I also went with rubber bed mount "springs" which I think also helped....not sure about that though.
@@LostInTech3D #zee! LOL Well, they do compress, so the height will change a bit. I made some little TPU cups that the rubber mounts sit in to make it so they don't compress as much and also compress evenly. Otherwise they kind of compress down and bulge unevenly, which I didn't like. I do like them better than springs though, they just seem to absorb vibrations a bit better.....thats a totally unscientific observation though.
@@LostInTech3D They will return to close to their "unsprung" height, but there will still be some weight from the bed compressing them under gravity, of course. In practice, I've found that you need to squish them down a bit to achieve enough resistance such that the wheels aren't too loose, just like with springs. I've only been using them for a short while, but they seem to make tramming a bit easier and consistent (feeler gauges help A LOT there too!), and they appear to stay "level" longer. All that said, I'm beginning to wonder if solid mounts are a better option, although that essentially necessitates a "perfectly" flat bed, which I know I certainly don't have, and this is your reminder that we're firmly down the rabbit hole...
@@LostInTech3D I've found such clips and put them on all my wheels to correct this issue and it seemed to work (partially). What I noticed is that there's still something that's loosening the wheels even when they can't turn clockwise to loosen, and I noticed that the bolts the wheels screw onto are loosely embedded into the printbed plate - I've even taken the plate off the frame, turned it upside down and tried rotating the bolts to see if they tighten - they don't! So tension seems to keep the bolts somewhat statically positioned but they seem to still rotate in place within the 'locked' wheel. Maybe Jerk is still causing this? Would adding a smaller nut to the bolt until it hits the underside of the base then threading the spring around it before going through leveling would resolve this once and for all?
I had a screw drop down during a print the other day and at first had no idea where it came from. Turned out to be from the hot end! So then I decided to check all of my screws and alot of them were loose! Might start using thread lock..
one of the first things I did with mine was toss those springs and go with the yellow machine compression springs, which ... hold so much better. One of the things I still notice though, is something catching the wheel. this I have observed with the ribbon cable to the screen/controls catching just barely on the wheel - and the printer moved the bed and spun the wheel a bit. I would love if you tried these yellow machine springs to see if you get similar results as you had before, or, if they really are "printing life changing" like everyone claims. (including myself) as all I have is personal experience making it less often to re-tram the bed once I dial it in. also I typically use jerk 16. Also I already have/wanted noisy printer drivers. Keeping my original I have been looking for ways to amplify the noise so that the music of printing can be heard more clearly (this involves a lot more and isn't as supported as silent printers, but some things are making a wooden amplification box, changing fans to be silent fans, getting tensions right, reducing vibrations from unwelcome sources etc)
Probably a little bit of PTFE tape to secure them or even switch out springs for rubber tubing? Never seen this on my Enders (5 plus and 7) but the beds only move on the Z-axis with those, they don't have the violent x-y movement you have.
The only time I've seen this is when some guy on a 3d printing subreddit worked out why all their prints kept failing, the cable leading to the extruder and x axis motor was having the wheel catch on it spinning it back and forth constantly.
There is no such thing as too much tension. Though the v3 has a silicon cuboid below the heater bed which prevents it going down to much so I removed it.
Soo one thing ive noticed is if u try to get the bed as low as possible u bow the bed over the middle rail and takes all the pressure off atleast one spring
I just had this happen, I was printing a hueforg image of a storm with a benchy coming out of the picture. Something went trembly wrong after changing to the white filament and I think my printer started trying to print to low in the z axis and I came in and two of my CR-10 Smart Pro bed nuts were lying under the print bed loose. Strange you mentioned this and only this weekend it happened to me and I’ve been 3d printing since 2016.
I once had the Z axis switch set too high, resulting in the leveling wheels beeing too loose to stay in place. I suspect that on a long enough print it could work all the way out.
An easy fix, just get 4 nuts and screw them on until they are snug against the wheels. It might make it slightly more of a pain to level the bed but if you were to level the bed and then put the nuts on to "lock it in place" then it should be good to go for a very long time without any further adjustment.
Just happened to me. Levelled the bed before the print and 3 hrs later one had fallen off. The machine was smashing over the parts violently and I’m yet to check for damage.
My old Wanhao i3 Plus had a problem with a wandering bed zero, until I installed locking wheels (and only on 3 corners, too..). The old printers used M3 screws and TINY wheels that would hurt your fingers, the newer ones (like my Sidewinder X2) have M4 screws and much larger wheels, which you turn a lot less to move the bed the same amount. The bed on the Sidewinder doesn't shift very much, and I think the fact that it uses a ABL sensor to set the nozzle height disguises any tiny shifting. By the way, the locking wheels are on Thingiverse - the idea is you remove the spring, and install one wheel above the adjustment plate and one below it. I was planning on doing this to the Sidewinder but haven't had a need to thus far. By the way, for 3D printer music - there's several on Thingiverse - the most popular seems to be Darth Vader's theme from Star Wars.
I've had them work loose on a bedslinger when experimenting with more aggressive movement settings. Haven't had the issue on other more rigid printer formats.
I had a similar problem on my really old bedslinger (now happily converted to a CoreXY) that needed a scredriver to level the bed (to say how much old it is =) ): it was localized to a single nut that destroyed my bed leveling every time, I had to resort to threadlock. So I guess you have good threds and all the people that have that problem have one or more bad threads...
i put o rings under mine so the wheels dont unscrew that stopped most of it on the stock wheels, they still unleveled after a few prints though.. replaced them anyhow and upgraded the springs. havnt had a problem since.
If this does actually happen, I would imagine it could only occur when you have a thick bed, such as a stuck on magnetic base and then instead of using the magnetic sheet, you put a glass bed on, which would reduce the compression on the springs. I do occasionally run that configuration on my Ender 3, but I have very stiff aftermarket springs that are still heavily compressed when the wheels are almost undone.
I plan to do just that, but...also check this out, slightly more complicated than my idea but it actually exists www.prusaprinters.org/prints/115938-ender-3-bed-leveling-wheel-clips
@@LostInTech3D I might do that. I have an Ender 3 V2 that should work fine on. Before I finished assembling my printer, I swapped out the springs for heavier ones and haven't noticed it loosen yet.
I have had this happen to me. Not sure of the exact setup as it only happened once and my print failed wonderfully. I want to say I was printing cable chains. Lots of short movements all over the bed. The wheels may have been loose to start.
I had this very issue on a 28 hour long print. I'm pretty sure that mine was caused by the wheel brushing against the hotbed wires when the bed moved backwards and forwards, when it does this a few thousand times over the course of a long print it can have a ratchet effect.
It's TRAMMING..GAH MAN! ...but yeah I've had wheels change during a print before, but it was indeed a thin wall part and ziggy infill with a "high" stock jerk setting, I think it was like 20. Didn't completely ruin the print, but it was enough to make some bulges along one side where the wheels loosened up, annoying! After that I added some nylon nuts to my setup so they wouldn't do that anymore. And reduced the jerk a bit since 8-10 seems adequate most of the time if you're not going for speed records.
If ur experimenting with speed printing this is usefull👌
2 ปีที่แล้ว
had this happen on my friends Anet A8. didn't observe it happening but when I got home one of the springs had come loose and a big noodle around the printer :/ No idea how that would have happened.
my ender pro keeps dropping its wheels when printing an object that is highly textured....the vibrations shake the wheels off...and i even got "delux" new springs and metal wheel updates that are not supposed to do this...but they do...
Interesting video an d subject. I have not experienced a print showing wheel changes during the print, but I have experienced a print which looked good, then did not use the printer for some time, and the next print did not adhere on the first layers. Perhaps this was due to unknown causes, perhaps a wheel or two moved slightly. I should get some lock nuts for my wheels. Dave.
@@LostInTech3D They do. They haven't been on the printer long, but I haven't need to adjust the bed since putting them on. They also don't always click, however, I'm guessing that's because they were printed with a 1mm nozzle on a bed that might not have been 100% level. Now that I'm up and running again, I'm going to print out a second set with a smaller nozzle size and save those for the future.
@@LostInTech3D Also, when the wheel fell off of my printer most of the firmware settings, including jerk, were stock. I'm guessing that the wheel fell off through the combination of lack of spring tension and the motion along the y-axis.
I woke up 2 nights in a row now to all 4 wheels off! I thought someone must be playing a joke on me, but then realized my wife never goes into my office and my daughter is too short to even reach the printer lol, so I printed some clips to attach to the wheels to prevent them from spinning, I even stepped it up and put 2 clips per wheel, woke up again this morning to all 4 wheels off! I think my printer is haunted! Either its haunted, or the actual screw is spinning because the wheels are now locked into place with the clips...
Dude, if you running marlin, jerk is not 3rd d/time. It is initial speed from zero (bc steppers have enough torque to do that). Config files even specify that jerk is measured in mm/s
@@LostInTech3D oh, I see. They are moving away from jerk and leveling specifically for misleading labeling though. Kipper, for example, says "square corner velocity"
The springs should allow some movement on the bed to give you some wiggle-room for your z-level. If your nozzle is quite close to the bed and pushing out filament, a bed that can move down a bit under that pressure can somewhat help and possibly avoid damage in some cases. Of course a good bed mesh and baby-stepped z-offset are better. As for the wheels: print your own wheels with embedded lock nut. No more wheels coming loose on their own ... but way harder to take them off completely when you need to ...
I've been saved many times by the springs, I personally would not run without them. Even ABL failed me when I had some cold filament on the nozzle and the hotend tried to dive into the bed because the ABL wasn't activating. Springs are good, I agree!
My new-out-of-box S1Plus just dropped all 4 wheels during print. My wheels are metal. Not enough tension is my guess. I tightened all the wheels compressing the springs. Re-leveled. Started print again. 2 hours latter one wheel fell off again!!
Errmm 😂 The maths literally doesn't work on these speeds if you look into it, unless your bed is...large, shall we say. As in, football pitch I would guess. I haven't sat down and thought about it but if you add jerk for 1s, then acceleration for 1s, then work out how far you've travelled to get up to that speed...you'll start to see the issue. 👍
Oh it is a thing. Not only did this happen to me, the nozzle, at the time printing at 220 degrees, dragged on my bed/magnetic printing surface, and melted the damn thing. :/ so yeah.
This happens all the time so I just leave it. I have a bent bed so the inside is lower than the out side, so I all ready am at the smallest distance from the nozzle I can get.
How did I find your video? Yes, they can fall off for no reason I could see two wheels at the end of a big print with a Ender 3 s1 pro. Extraordinary that these wheels don't have locks built in. Wake up manufactures. I can't believe after so many years how horrible a job manufacturers have done at improving 3d Printers. Wheels are falling off 🤦🏻♂
yes the problem with troubleshooting someone elses problems is the fact they send a bad picture with bad title and basically no description to discord or reddit. It's useless for troubleshooting.
Oh don't I know it! You spend an hour helping them try to get the first layer to lay down smoothly then realise they have the hot end on upside down 😂 I used to work in phone tech support a long time ago and the struggle was real.
Snap obviously the speed you snap your failed print. Crackle is the speed the crack propagates through your brittle filament Pop is the speed in which you destroy your electronics when the electronic energy moves close to speed of light..
You might be interested in using a tool like fullcontrolgcode to make custom gcode files. It's a super powerful program, and you could use it to easily create a frequency sweep to find a resonant frequency of your printer frame.
@@LostInTech3D No, you can upload a midi and define your steppers and their range of movement then the g-code is a combination of movements at different frequencies to make sounds. Works well with old 8-bit game soundtracks.
You sure? I googled it and the article that came up claimed to move the printer around, but the video definitely was the buzzer 😂 I thought my research was shoddy but that article takes the cake. You can send me a link, I will see it even if it gets moderated.
Grab a midi file, use an online audio converter to make an "rtttl" file, find "ddrboxman" on github and use his program to paste the rtttl file in the generator to make g-code. Paste the g-code in anywhere you like, such as before starting a print (Mario Kart countdown?), finishing a print (Mario level finish?) or to notify of time to change filament in multilayer print (Pac-Man or Donkey Kong fails?) Fun to search for midis, fun to see the tons of g-code and fun to listen to if your printer doesn't just play monotone music but actual sounds! I believe Daniel at Crosslink did a full description on this with RepRapMusic several years ago.
I did contact the maker of one to see if he was willing to have it shown in the vid but no response yet. You can search thingiverse for "Ultimate Ender 3 Bed Leveling Knob" and hopefully find it.
I can't believe this channel only has 8k subs, the videos are always so high quality!
Appreciate the comments. I guess I'll get there 👍
The algorithm isn't fair, this channel belongs up there next to cnckitchen and vector3d.
I know! This guy has a talent for this. These videos are fantastic!
its 34.5k
I have had the wheels loosen on my ender 3 through another method: the gantry cable/umbilical was rubbing against the wheel, so every time the bed passed that point in the wrong direction it would undo the wheel very slightly each time. This was the big reason I put cable chains on my printer, just to keep the cables away from the moving bits. I also put the stiffer yellow springs on too, which likely would have been enough on their own
Same thing on my CR10s! I was going insane trying to figure out why my bed was changing so much every print
Wow, that was really interesting to watch. You were dedicated, committed and stubborn enough to figure it out. I love it!
Finally! Ive been saying this on several channels and no one acknowledged it. The easiest solution is just a simple jam nut that tightens into the wheel as the wheel tries to loosen the nut tightens against the wheel more. Even on a very low jerk it will loosen over months.
Never have been able to get used to the “per cubic second” or “per square second” because of its area and volume connotation. At school we were taught expressing it as “per second cubed” or “per second squared”.
The other one that gets my hair rising is the “high rate of of speed” used by police in their reporting in many countries (English speaking ones anyway) because I’m so used to rate referring to a change, like rate of change of speed is acceleration. Now I picture these criminals doing acceleration runs up and down a road when the were likely only speeding, that is to say, travelling at a “high speed” or “high rate of change of distance”. This is another case of too many words.
By the way, nothing to do with loose wheels or calculus, but have you noticed that the common expression “go ahead and” that many people include as a longer version of “um” does not change the sense of the sentence in any way whether it’s include or not?
I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you there 😂 Yes I had noticed.
Interesting thoughts on cubes too...the more I think about it, the more it hurts my brain, I think I played myself with that joke!
Instead of "meters per second squared" or "meters per second cubed" I prefer to use "meters per second per second" or "meters per second squared per second" while thinking about it. Expressing a rate of change over time that way makes it a lot easier for me.
Think it another way.
Velocity is straigh forward distance over time whre the time is a fixed period, like m/s or km/h etc.
Once familiar with what 1m/s and 5m/s is you can visualize the acceleration in m/s/s whre you have (m/s)/s meaning the gain or loss of velocity in one second. A 1g acceleration means you will gain 9.81m/s every second.
Same for other confusing units. Like energy and torque having the same units. Joules are energy unit and one way to see energy is when you apply a force over a set distance hence Newtons for force and meter over the distance traveled with that constant force. So 1J=1N*1m. The ambiguity comes when interpreting torque where 1N force on a 1meter lever will generate a rotational torque of 1Nm. So in fact you can easily state torque values in Joules to add to confusion.
A lot of other simplifcations and grouping of known units come from the mass acceleration force and energy since mass times acceleration is a force, and force times distance is joules and joules over time are watts and force times speed are watts. So for certain units you might get weird Watt/Joules/m/s mixups (mathematically and physically correct but ambiguous).
So for an example if i say to tighten a bolt to 50Nm but no more than 10Nm/s (beacuse of the weird material that may shatter if tighten fast) i could say tighten to 10W for 5 seconds or tighten to 0.0138888Wh in at least 5 seconds.
My Ender 3 V2 has those aftermarket orange springs. The rear left wheel would completely come off because my cable guide somehow went under the bed and undid the wheel with each Y pass. Solved it by printing a separator to keep the cable upright (I've tried cable chains but didn't like it.)
Ohh I didn't even think about something touching the wheels! Good call!
I have just got back from the pub and watched this then.came straight here to see if someone had posted exactly this, it's very common on the v2 there is even a video of it turning it completely around every time the y axis moved
I have an Ender 3 v2 and the problem of the "moving wheels" was also present.
In the end I resolved changing the springs with the yellow ones , after 2 month's the printer is perfect
I had a wheel drop just a couple of weeks ago. A failed print made a huge blob that was dragging across the build plate, both pressing it down and creating vibration as the head dragged across the textured PEI. I had left for the day after seeing it start fine, and when I got home I had a blog monster, spaghetti, and a dropped wheel. (The head had hit a small blob, dislodged the part which stuck to the hot end, then sticking to the hot filament, creating the problem is the best I have worked out.) It was very interesting seeing this and learning what happened to dislodge that wheel! Thank you!
btw, jerk is different in marlin, it's maximum permitted instantaneous change in velocity, in units of mm/s (same as speed). It shouldn't be called jerk, but it is unfortunately.
that's a bit naughty isn't it! I wonder if they ever intend to fix that?
@@LostInTech3D unlikely? It seems people are generally migrating to junction deviation. If that's the case, there'd be no incentive to rename a legacy implementation
Great video and loved the humor! Watching that thing vibrate and wobble was hilarious! I've seen inkjets do the same thing. haha
Also, a very good point in your video.... DON'T RUN OTHER PEOPLE'S G-CODE!! Too true!!
Thank you again.
Seen it myself when the spring pressure wasn’t enough - switching to yellow springs was a massive improvement
A good solution is to change the springs for a stiffer one (like the orange ones) and adjust the bed at the bottom limits, just when the heat-protection from the heating resistor touches the Y carriage.
If you print something heavy and tall it will also shake the bed and unscrew them even at low jerk/accelerations
Best solution to prints fast and tall is to get a CoreXY
I woke up at 3am to a bumping sound in the basement last night. All four wheels had fallen of my printer and the hot end was carving its way around the top surface of my print. I had checked the z heighted before the print started, although I don't know how tight my tramming wheels were. Even though my jerk and acceleration settings are very low, it was a large flat print that did involve hours and hours of back and forth.
This happened in the middle of the night last night,the back wheel fell off and then it trashed my Glock stand print and eventually knocked that off the bed as well,bed leveling has been my biggest issue with the ender3, it's even grinded holes in the bed,thank you for this video
I had 3 wheels fall off after printing for about an hour. I was printing a large print where it was creating a large base for a dice roller. The printer was doing the fill for the flat floor. This caused the printer to be printing at a 45 degree angle. On the next level it would go the opposite direction. Since the wheels were losing up it caused the printer to make bumps that it would hit and cause more of a problem of shaking the bed until the wheels fall off.
One thing I can think of is if the bolt got it's threads caught on the edge of the hole only a small amount of movement on the wheel would cause all of the spring tension to be unloaded, then it might take a noisy stepper an hour or so to buzz it off
Jerk set to 100.
That was hilarious.
Thanks for the video and explanation of jerk, I had no idea the 3rd derivative of position with respect to time made any sense.
Mine come loose when bashing the heated bed to get parts unstuck after a print job. It's just a tenth of a turn here and there until it's fully loose and can unscrew on its own during printing.
Yellow springs are much more reliable in this regard. I think it's the real reason yellow springs holds a leveling better.
I should have tested the yellow springs. Do you want to try my printer destroying code out? :) :)
This may be correctable by peening the threaded inserts. Peening is a trick some machinists use to make a standard nut act like a locknut. All you do is take a centerpunch and make a couple divots on the top of a nut and it distorts the threads enough that it binds slightly when threaded on the bolt.
I'd heard of the term but this is good info, thanks!
I have had good luck with silicon solid bed mounts on Ender 3. Don't need to adjust them as frequently as the spring bed mounts.
Same, I was forced into this upgrade after one of the stock springs cut into the solder mask on the bottom of the bed and lost its springiness in the resulting high current event...
Just curious how do you know how tight to tighten the knobs when using those? They squish so it seems like it would be a very similar problem?
They undo because it's a lot more likely than doing up . The force trying to unscrew is both the spring and gravity. Stopping it undoing is only resisted by friction , anything that reduces friction wil cause it to undo.
My Ender 3 v2 use to loosen the wheels over time. I never adjusted the jerk so I can’t say what was causing it. I put a drop of blue Loctite on each wheel & it hasn’t done it since. This might have happened before I replaced the stock springs.
i took some pliers to pinch the threads a little so the nut wont rotate freely. never had them coming lose. i also removed that tab on the z endstop to lower it 5mm further so i can crank down the springs even more.
Yeah, so I have experienced the wheels loosening up (not falling off), but not for quite some time now. It happened to me after I installed my BLTouch on my CR-10. I figured out that it was because I hadn't removed the Zee (or Zed for weirdos) stop and bracket which made it so I couldn't tighten the springs down enough to get it tension enough. I also went with rubber bed mount "springs" which I think also helped....not sure about that though.
#zed! I guess the rubber mounts won't change height if they loosen either?
@@LostInTech3D #zee! LOL Well, they do compress, so the height will change a bit. I made some little TPU cups that the rubber mounts sit in to make it so they don't compress as much and also compress evenly. Otherwise they kind of compress down and bulge unevenly, which I didn't like. I do like them better than springs though, they just seem to absorb vibrations a bit better.....thats a totally unscientific observation though.
@@LostInTech3D They will return to close to their "unsprung" height, but there will still be some weight from the bed compressing them under gravity, of course. In practice, I've found that you need to squish them down a bit to achieve enough resistance such that the wheels aren't too loose, just like with springs. I've only been using them for a short while, but they seem to make tramming a bit easier and consistent (feeler gauges help A LOT there too!), and they appear to stay "level" longer.
All that said, I'm beginning to wonder if solid mounts are a better option, although that essentially necessitates a "perfectly" flat bed, which I know I certainly don't have, and this is your reminder that we're firmly down the rabbit hole...
What about 3D printing a clip that would react against the body of the bed so that it can't loosen while the clip is on.
that's actually my thought too, just a simple clip that hits the frame, would work on the ender at least I think!
@@LostInTech3D I've found such clips and put them on all my wheels to correct this issue and it seemed to work (partially). What I noticed is that there's still something that's loosening the wheels even when they can't turn clockwise to loosen, and I noticed that the bolts the wheels screw onto are loosely embedded into the printbed plate - I've even taken the plate off the frame, turned it upside down and tried rotating the bolts to see if they tighten - they don't! So tension seems to keep the bolts somewhat statically positioned but they seem to still rotate in place within the 'locked' wheel. Maybe Jerk is still causing this? Would adding a smaller nut to the bolt until it hits the underside of the base then threading the spring around it before going through leveling would resolve this once and for all?
Yes, stop the spinning by having a rough surface (sand paper)....Also, there are youtube viewos of actual music with just stepper drives. Pretty cool!
ah like a clutch, interesting idea
I had a screw drop down during a print the other day and at first had no idea where it came from. Turned out to be from the hot end! So then I decided to check all of my screws and alot of them were loose! Might start using thread lock..
Yeah I actually think looking back that the extruder looked to be wobbling even before I started the video...checking screws is important I guess!
one of the first things I did with mine was toss those springs and go with the yellow machine compression springs, which ... hold so much better. One of the things I still notice though, is something catching the wheel. this I have observed with the ribbon cable to the screen/controls catching just barely on the wheel - and the printer moved the bed and spun the wheel a bit.
I would love if you tried these yellow machine springs to see if you get similar results as you had before, or, if they really are "printing life changing" like everyone claims. (including myself) as all I have is personal experience making it less often to re-tram the bed once I dial it in.
also I typically use jerk 16.
Also I already have/wanted noisy printer drivers. Keeping my original I have been looking for ways to amplify the noise so that the music of printing can be heard more clearly (this involves a lot more and isn't as supported as silent printers, but some things are making a wooden amplification box, changing fans to be silent fans, getting tensions right, reducing vibrations from unwelcome sources etc)
Probably a little bit of PTFE tape to secure them or even switch out springs for rubber tubing? Never seen this on my Enders (5 plus and 7) but the beds only move on the Z-axis with those, they don't have the violent x-y movement you have.
If you put some thick grease in the threads that will add a good bit of static friction and kill them almost dead
The only time I've seen this is when some guy on a 3d printing subreddit worked out why all their prints kept failing, the cable leading to the extruder and x axis motor was having the wheel catch on it spinning it back and forth constantly.
Yeah that's definitely a thing
There is no such thing as too much tension. Though the v3 has a silicon cuboid below the heater bed which prevents it going down to much so I removed it.
ordinarily no - but if the spring overlaps itself (the cheap springs) I think you could get some unintended effects.
Soo one thing ive noticed is if u try to get the bed as low as possible u bow the bed over the middle rail and takes all the pressure off atleast one spring
Really? That's interesting, I will check it out...!
I just had this happen, I was printing a hueforg image of a storm with a benchy coming out of the picture. Something went trembly wrong after changing to the white filament and I think my printer started trying to print to low in the z axis and I came in and two of my CR-10 Smart Pro bed nuts were lying under the print bed loose. Strange you mentioned this and only this weekend it happened to me and I’ve been 3d printing since 2016.
It happens, usually when there's wire in the way, catching the wheels...seen it several times in my farm
I would think that too much tension on the stock springs would cause them to bunch and potentially shift.
I once had the Z axis switch set too high, resulting in the leveling wheels beeing too loose to stay in place. I suspect that on a long enough print it could work all the way out.
An easy fix, just get 4 nuts and screw them on until they are snug against the wheels. It might make it slightly more of a pain to level the bed but if you were to level the bed and then put the nuts on to "lock it in place" then it should be good to go for a very long time without any further adjustment.
Just happened to me. Levelled the bed before the print and 3 hrs later one had fallen off. The machine was smashing over the parts violently and I’m yet to check for damage.
My old Wanhao i3 Plus had a problem with a wandering bed zero, until I installed locking wheels (and only on 3 corners, too..). The old printers used M3 screws and TINY wheels that would hurt your fingers, the newer ones (like my Sidewinder X2) have M4 screws and much larger wheels, which you turn a lot less to move the bed the same amount. The bed on the Sidewinder doesn't shift very much, and I think the fact that it uses a ABL sensor to set the nozzle height disguises any tiny shifting. By the way, the locking wheels are on Thingiverse - the idea is you remove the spring, and install one wheel above the adjustment plate and one below it. I was planning on doing this to the Sidewinder but haven't had a need to thus far. By the way, for 3D printer music - there's several on Thingiverse - the most popular seems to be Darth Vader's theme from Star Wars.
Jerk is really hard to visualize, but great job. Ive heard of snap being called shimmy.
I've had them work loose on a bedslinger when experimenting with more aggressive movement settings. Haven't had the issue on other more rigid printer formats.
I had a similar problem on my really old bedslinger (now happily converted to a CoreXY) that needed a scredriver to level the bed (to say how much old it is =) ): it was localized to a single nut that destroyed my bed leveling every time, I had to resort to threadlock.
So I guess you have good threds and all the people that have that problem have one or more bad threads...
i put o rings under mine so the wheels dont unscrew that stopped most of it on the stock wheels, they still unleveled after a few prints though.. replaced them anyhow and upgraded the springs. havnt had a problem since.
If this does actually happen, I would imagine it could only occur when you have a thick bed, such as a stuck on magnetic base and then instead of using the magnetic sheet, you put a glass bed on, which would reduce the compression on the springs. I do occasionally run that configuration on my Ender 3, but I have very stiff aftermarket springs that are still heavily compressed when the wheels are almost undone.
Very nice, as usual ! 😃
Thank you! 👍
@@LostInTech3D You are welcomed, always.
You could probably design a clip for the bed that would hold the wheel in place. Or one that mounts somewhere that would lock it into place
I plan to do just that, but...also check this out, slightly more complicated than my idea but it actually exists
www.prusaprinters.org/prints/115938-ender-3-bed-leveling-wheel-clips
@@LostInTech3D I might do that. I have an Ender 3 V2 that should work fine on. Before I finished assembling my printer, I swapped out the springs for heavier ones and haven't noticed it loosen yet.
Blu tack (or white) works ;)
I have had this happen to me. Not sure of the exact setup as it only happened once and my print failed wonderfully. I want to say I was printing cable chains. Lots of short movements all over the bed. The wheels may have been loose to start.
Using anti-slip nuts with nylon inserts will probably solve this issue??
I had this very issue on a 28 hour long print. I'm pretty sure that mine was caused by the wheel brushing against the hotbed wires when the bed moved backwards and forwards, when it does this a few thousand times over the course of a long print it can have a ratchet effect.
It's TRAMMING..GAH MAN! ...but yeah I've had wheels change during a print before, but it was indeed a thin wall part and ziggy infill with a "high" stock jerk setting, I think it was like 20. Didn't completely ruin the print, but it was enough to make some bulges along one side where the wheels loosened up, annoying! After that I added some nylon nuts to my setup so they wouldn't do that anymore. And reduced the jerk a bit since 8-10 seems adequate most of the time if you're not going for speed records.
If your using mesh abl, you might as well use 3 point instead of 1 point.
If ur experimenting with speed printing this is usefull👌
had this happen on my friends Anet A8. didn't observe it happening but when I got home one of the springs had come loose and a big noodle around the printer :/ No idea how that would have happened.
I guess now you know! 👍
my ender pro keeps dropping its wheels when printing an object that is highly textured....the vibrations shake the wheels off...and i even got "delux" new springs and metal wheel updates that are not supposed to do this...but they do...
Haha I guess you can change frequency (speed) and it might stop
Interesting video an d subject. I have not experienced a print showing wheel changes during the print, but I have experienced a print which looked good, then did not use the printer for some time, and the next print did not adhere on the first layers. Perhaps this was due to unknown causes, perhaps a wheel or two moved slightly.
I should get some lock nuts for my wheels.
Dave.
13:20 You monster! That was a war crime!
That was the parts I felt I could publish 😮
This happened to me! It trashed my print. I printed some clicky wheels and replaced the stock ones.
do the clicky wheels work out ok?
@@LostInTech3D They do. They haven't been on the printer long, but I haven't need to adjust the bed since putting them on. They also don't always click, however, I'm guessing that's because they were printed with a 1mm nozzle on a bed that might not have been 100% level. Now that I'm up and running again, I'm going to print out a second set with a smaller nozzle size and save those for the future.
@@LostInTech3D Also, when the wheel fell off of my printer most of the firmware settings, including jerk, were stock. I'm guessing that the wheel fell off through the combination of lack of spring tension and the motion along the y-axis.
Yeah I think it's definitely possible with stock values, just not repeatable like it was for me
Having a thick glass bed cover will cause you to have very loose springs. Moving the Z stop up and re-leveling would fix this problem.
ah yes the load too, forgot about that.
I woke up 2 nights in a row now to all 4 wheels off! I thought someone must be playing a joke on me, but then realized my wife never goes into my office and my daughter is too short to even reach the printer lol, so I printed some clips to attach to the wheels to prevent them from spinning, I even stepped it up and put 2 clips per wheel, woke up again this morning to all 4 wheels off! I think my printer is haunted! Either its haunted, or the actual screw is spinning because the wheels are now locked into place with the clips...
Haha that's hilarious 😂
Dude, if you running marlin, jerk is not 3rd d/time. It is initial speed from zero (bc steppers have enough torque to do that). Config files even specify that jerk is measured in mm/s
It is a main source of ghosting btw iirc
yep see description :)
@@LostInTech3D oh, I see. They are moving away from jerk and leveling specifically for misleading labeling though.
Kipper, for example, says "square corner velocity"
Yeah I gotta get myself into klipper then do a vid on this!
@@LostInTech3D kipper is magic. Reignited my passion for 3ď printers
I've had it happen. Usually just one wheel.
I turn my wheels around so they have a larger contact area rubbing on the frame to increase the friction
should definitely work!
So in summary, jerks make your printer to fall apart? Yeah, makes sense. 😂😂😂
Couldnt you convert a MIDI file into gcode to produce the required notes?
People have done that, but yeah...I make videos... deadlines, you know how it is 🤣
The springs should allow some movement on the bed to give you some wiggle-room for your z-level. If your nozzle is quite close to the bed and pushing out filament, a bed that can move down a bit under that pressure can somewhat help and possibly avoid damage in some cases. Of course a good bed mesh and baby-stepped z-offset are better. As for the wheels: print your own wheels with embedded lock nut. No more wheels coming loose on their own ... but way harder to take them off completely when you need to ...
I've been saved many times by the springs, I personally would not run without them. Even ABL failed me when I had some cold filament on the nozzle and the hotend tried to dive into the bed because the ABL wasn't activating. Springs are good, I agree!
My new-out-of-box S1Plus just dropped all 4 wheels during print. My wheels are metal. Not enough tension is my guess. I tightened all the wheels compressing the springs. Re-leveled. Started print again. 2 hours latter one wheel fell off again!!
My s1 plus lost them in transit in the box 😂
Damn...@@LostInTech3D
Perhaps switch to plastic wheels? Less weight, less movement? @@LostInTech3D
Different question why if we have crazy travel speeds we don't hear sonic booms?
Errmm 😂
The maths literally doesn't work on these speeds if you look into it, unless your bed is...large, shall we say. As in, football pitch I would guess. I haven't sat down and thought about it but if you add jerk for 1s, then acceleration for 1s, then work out how far you've travelled to get up to that speed...you'll start to see the issue. 👍
@@LostInTech3DThanks for sharing your view 😎
Oh it is a thing. Not only did this happen to me, the nozzle, at the time printing at 220 degrees, dragged on my bed/magnetic printing surface, and melted the damn thing.
:/ so yeah.
Love the detail you go into, another great video man!
My wheels just came off. During my print, 84 hours left. Do I put them back on? Or do I continue the print without them? I need help
That's quite a conundrum. Tightening them at all will definitely fail the print.
@@LostInTech3D So far, my print haven't malfunction yet. I'll continue the process and update you how it went.
I have come to my finished prints twice and found 1 wheel on the table.
Thread lock or something sticky would stop it
This happens all the time so I just leave it. I have a bent bed so the inside is lower than the out side, so I all ready am at the smallest distance from the nozzle I can get.
if your bed is bent then it's probably time to look into ways to get mesh leveling working, somehow. There's a few ways to achieve that.
@@LostInTech3D Thank you
Can I have that file into a GCode where the x axis moves side to side along .
the one where I was pushing it? :D
@@LostInTech3D the one that moves the x axis back and forth haha so I can figure out if my x-axis is good or not haha please and thank you sir
I think I was just using the panel, but I did make a thing for it in a past video...I'll see if I can find it since I migrated the website!
@@LostInTech3D okay awesome thank you 🙏🙏
A jigeling printer is a happy printer. It just dances!
Oh...it wasn't happy by the end of the process...I had to do some repairs 😂😬
@@LostInTech3D haha so happy you do these test and we can learn without destroying. The image where you smack the bed is material for nightmares! 🤣
How did I find your video? Yes, they can fall off for no reason I could see two wheels at the end of a big print with a Ender 3 s1 pro. Extraordinary that these wheels don't have locks built in. Wake up manufactures. I can't believe after so many years how horrible a job manufacturers have done at improving 3d Printers. Wheels are falling off 🤦🏻♂
Now you just have to Figure out how to probe then shake the bed to level
Haha what 😁
yes the problem with troubleshooting someone elses problems is the fact they send a bad picture with bad title and basically no description to discord or reddit. It's useless for troubleshooting.
Oh don't I know it! You spend an hour helping them try to get the first layer to lay down smoothly then realise they have the hot end on upside down 😂 I used to work in phone tech support a long time ago and the struggle was real.
@@LostInTech3D I bet is.
This just happened to mine
i was just hum interesting but then i looked over to my ender 3 and i see im missing 2 of my wheels
I've leveled my bed 5 times... and I've been 3d printing for close to a year. I just use z offset until the prints physically don't stick.
This happened to me my wheel did came off
What is happing?! It is happening to me hahahaha
This is pure printer abuse! :( Poor thing
This is why all my other printers behave 😂
Snap obviously the speed you snap your failed print.
Crackle is the speed the crack propagates through your brittle filament
Pop is the speed in which you destroy your electronics when the electronic energy moves close to speed of light..
I can't argue with that, but no name for the 7th? 👍
I blame cats.
I had a section on cats in the original second half 🤣
You might be interested in using a tool like fullcontrolgcode to make custom gcode files. It's a super powerful program, and you could use it to easily create a frequency sweep to find a resonant frequency of your printer frame.
Oh, I plan to mess about with full control at some point :)
@Lost In Tech Google "Midi to G-code" and there is a website to convert any midi file to a completed g-code to play on your printer.
Of course there is! 😜 Someone already did everything.
Isn't it only through the buzzer though?
@@LostInTech3D No, you can upload a midi and define your steppers and their range of movement then the g-code is a combination of movements at different frequencies to make sounds. Works well with old 8-bit game soundtracks.
You sure? I googled it and the article that came up claimed to move the printer around, but the video definitely was the buzzer 😂 I thought my research was shoddy but that article takes the cake. You can send me a link, I will see it even if it gets moderated.
Grab a midi file, use an online audio converter to make an "rtttl" file, find "ddrboxman" on github and use his program to paste the rtttl file in the generator to make g-code. Paste the g-code in anywhere you like, such as before starting a print (Mario Kart countdown?), finishing a print (Mario level finish?) or to notify of time to change filament in multilayer print (Pac-Man or Donkey Kong fails?) Fun to search for midis, fun to see the tons of g-code and fun to listen to if your printer doesn't just play monotone music but actual sounds! I believe Daniel at Crosslink did a full description on this with RepRapMusic several years ago.
Any links to clicky wheel or bedlocks?
I did contact the maker of one to see if he was willing to have it shown in the vid but no response yet. You can search thingiverse for "Ultimate Ender 3 Bed Leveling Knob" and hopefully find it.
Aha - someone on discord has also pointed me to these which I can show you -> www.prusaprinters.org/prints/115938-ender-3-bed-leveling-wheel-clips
I think its in relation to crap springs my arterly x1 would lose it level on the regular unless i tighted the crap out of the springs .
sounds like it but always worth also checking the screws and wheels on the gantry as it can be that too
I printed new "Wheels" and inserted Nylock nuts into them to prevent unwanted loosening
Does that make levelling a pain?
A 1/4 turn on the bed wheels is 0.175mm
good to know..I guess they all use the same screw pitch. I should write that down.
I lose bed level every time I hit it with the calibration hammer. Why is this happening 😭