Attorney here. Lawyers get no training in psychology, unfortunately. So unless they bother to study it, they're clueless, and often doing a narcissist's gaslighting for them. And of course, they can be narcissists themselves. However, once experienced, attorneys and judges tend to see through the lies of those with serious anti-social personality disorders (sociopaths, psychopaths, etc.). Greater awareness of "ordinary" narcissistic abuse among legal professionals would be helpful - it would be great if experts like Dr Ramani could offer this kind of professional education to lawyers.
Attorney here as well. A few years ago I started to educate myself on the narcissistic dynamics just to have better perspective. It’s made me a better lawyer to see through what one’s not telling me.
@@TheLegalCodeNYC Family Law Attorney and therapist Bill Eddy has written some great books and articles on "high conflict" divorces. I agree. Attorneys are clueless.
Years ago, i had a spouse walk out without warning or explanation, to be with someone else. We'd never even had a fight. This was traumatic. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But what was MORE traumatic was the reactions i got from people who assumed that i had somehow mishandled and neglected my marriage. I was being blamed. I was humiliated and enraged by comments like, "this is why communication is so important". We weren't having a communication problem! I was being deceived and used.
Sadly many victims get blamed. I think many that blame victims truly don't care @ all so they go the easy route blame the victim as that takes no reflection or thought so they go for the easy answer thinking they brilliantly came up with what think is a brilliant answer & they don't have to think about it nor do they want to think about it because they really don't care but have to voice an opinion.
I too have a 'runaway husband'- June 29th '22 we went to the grocery, he bought all his usual 2 week groceries, things had been as usual, except he was spending more & drinking a bit more ( which I attributed to him talking to his Malignant narc brother again on the phone), but I felt things were as normal. July 1st, he gets up, starts packing a bag, & says he's going to visit his brother in Florida but he'll be back the following week for some important doctors I & our cat had ( I don't drive)-- HE DISAPPEARED. NO CONTACT FOR MONTHS..then after finding out at a doctors that I had no insurance (!) I texted that again to the silent black hole phone number..figuring nothing. I actually got a text back!- saying 'I know you aren't well- I don't know what's up with the insurance. I plan to keep paying that until we're legally divorced.' 😳 1st time in 23years I EVER heard or saw that word from him. His narc brother orchestrated me losing everything & getting nothing. And their enmeshed family has made me out to be some crazed monster! There are no answers to what happened to the love of my life, my best friend & dear husband. No pleading or begging for answers gets ANYTHING. Even though I found the other woman the brother hooked him up with left him. NOTHING CAN HEAL THAT TYPE OF UNANSWERED ABANDOMENT. And he knew he was leaving me alone with no family or anyone, & sucked me dry of every cent.
This is EXACTLY why I quit family law and have devoted the rest of my professional days helping women and men who have been victimized by the as$#ones. Can't work within the system, so I decided to work against it. Unless an attorney has been a victim of narcissistic abuse, they have ZERO clue. And they are callous AF. It's disgusting.
I’m learning this the hard way. They are conniving, manipulative liars. Very sneaky & calloused & know how to use the system/laws AGAINST you…the victim of their narcissistic abuse.
❤ hats off to you, lady hats off. My attorney knew who and what he was dealing with. It’s still cost me a fortune, and that young man moved on from law after my case and he was a great lawyer.
I’m Japanese and living in Japan. I’m going to presentation about Narcissist at Welfare services for mental disorders where I recently get help for my mental health. Your voices are reaching out and beyond to Japan. So as a Japanese I want to say thank you for your hard work and helping my bloom liltle by liltle.
A friend's ex-husband who was a narcissist...was a family & marriage psychologist! Horrifying. Other narcissist we encountered...was a pastor. These sick creeps seek out these kinds of positions. Thank God for the exposure & education on narcissism.
"narcissist...was a family & marriage psychologist!" Narcissists seek power. What better position of power than to be a psychologist? Psychologists choose this profession for a reason. Sometimes that reason is to understand and deal with past trauma. While that can certainly produce empathy with clients, it can also result in a loss of professional detachment.
In fairness, tons of people in the psyc field have or have dealt with mental illness before. They do have standards and ethics that do and should absolutely apply to them because they are central in alot of court issues, diagnosises, etc. But it shouldn't be assumed that he's shit at his job because he may or may not be a shit husband. In the same way you shouldn't judge a therapist with ptsd, depression, bpd, etc etc
@@User-pw3pu "In the same way you shouldn't judge a therapist with ptsd, depression, bpd, etc etc" I do; sort of. I'm not sure what is meant by "judgment" but a therapist with PTSD and other dysfunctions is going to have difficulty, probably impossible, to know whether an observation is of the client, or oneself *reflected* by the client. But a therapist is not the psychologist; there's probably a benefit to a therapist with the SAME dysfunction as the client; and they can walk together through the valley. The psychologist, however, should have no problems of his own to reflect and mis-judge as being the clients problems. My daughter is an example of a natural reflector; she adopts the behavior, language, even accent, of who she is with. She's also smart and familiar with the DSM and a less experienced psychologist, such as a school counselor, will diagnose exactly what my daughter decides is to be the diagnosis.
Yes, it's usually not conscious either. They need to be in positions of power and control, so that would be in every and any field where there are people to ...dominate. Notice, they tend not to be vets. Animals can't be manipulated like humans.
@@Jennifer-gr7hn I was thinking about why they wouldn't be Vets, and I have an idea. A lot of Marines are on the spectrum, it's a very black and white, cut dry, pass fail type of environment. Could the massive amount of autism tend to push those types away because it A) Destroys inflated egos and B) it's really hard to bullshit people hardwired to be stubborn, rigid and accountable to ridiculous degrees?
This was the entire culture I grew up in. If someone is being abused, they somehow deserve it. I bought into it. I blamed myself. I’ve heard others say they feel they feel they must have something wrong with them for attracting abusers. This is probably the single most destructive part of our society, on a personal level.
Yes and no. I think that a lot of people think that a person in a shitty situating should stand up for themselves and if they don’t then they aren’t a victim, they are a volunteer. I think this largely comes from wishful thinking (if I was in that situation that’s what I would do… or hope to do… kind of thing), largely in part from people who might have trouble emphasizing or accepting weakness (others’ and especially their own)
I certainly don't think someone deserves abuse but I do think someone who is abused ( within context obviously I'm not talking about children etc) believe themselves that they deserve the abuse. We act on our subconscious thoughts. The trick indeed is to not buy into it.
@@sunbeam9222 NAH LOL ALL THAT SHIT HAS BEEN DEBUNKED LOL LIKE BACK IN 2012 SUNBEAM LOL I MEAN THAT WAS LIKE THE BASIC FUNDLEMENTAL OF SELF AWARENESS. THAT IS LIKE STEP 1 LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SUB CONSCIOUS LIVING IN A CULTURE OF COMPLIANCE ONE CAN NOT alter their sub conscious to the point of believing they are living in a different culture society. What I mean is, if everybody is a narc lmao and every single person who is a victim of this EITHER DOES NOT HEAL OR LETS JUST SAY DOES HEAL FROM IT, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE NEXT STEP OF SELF AWARENESS IS? YOU WILL EITHER FEEL FIGHT OR FLIGHT " FROZEN " LOL LITTERLY THE RESPONCE THAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE IS STRESSED OUT LIKE 24/7 LOL ITS LIKE TELLING SOMEONE WHO IS IN PRISON TO JUST STOP BEING IN PRISON HAHAHAHA YOU OBVIOUSLY LOVE YOUR MOM, AND YET YOUR MOM ONE DAY SAYS SHE LOVES YOU, AND THE NEXT DAY SHE SAYS SHE WISHES YOU DIE LOL WTF KIND OF SUBCONSIOUS BELIEF DO YOU THINK YOUR " SELF " SHOULD COME UP WITH ? And lets say, you leave the relationship, lol still stuck, fight or flight from thinking about being abused lol a month, or 2 months go by lol shoot probably 6 months go by. You start to heal, work out, got your mind back to normal, lol what? do you think you wont change into that selfish prick that will never ever give someone a chance with you out of fear? lol you will feel like you have a right to NEVER be abused ever again lol shoot you might even become the abuser since its better than being abused and how do you know what sub conscious beliefs do you want the self to have lol
@@clairelane3642 parents also had their own unhealed trauma that made them act as perpetrators. They remained unhealthy. Healthy people don't act cruel. We are grown now, and seemingly able to realise what was done to us was not justified, what was said to us about ourselves was not true. We ( if awareness is present) have the ability to change the internal dialogue and reparent ourselves. It's sure not a short process. But it's a mandatory one. It's understanding that what happened to us was not our fault in any way and also that the new insights provided bring us a gift and also the responsibility to heal the trauma within us. Otherwise what is the other option. Blame our parents for their own lack of awareness? And keep crying over spilled milk? We can either cry with that child within us, or put on our big pants, offer compassion to that that child and say I''m here now , the grown version of you, and I will explain to you what happened, love and protect you.
It’s so terrifying once you wake up , knowing that the husband you loved and trusted had so little respect for you , and then navigating life with others and seeing the disbelief and lack of empathy , it takes a very courageous person to get to the healing side of this horror .
I can feel you. I am terrified as well. These people are like demons that feast of your hearted human feelings. Always trust your inner sense of truth, and heal yourself with so much love. You deserve it. You worth it. ❤❤❤
I’m just getting out of an 8 month relationship and I got the big discard. I’m telling you it’s been the most painful thing I’ve ever gone through. I cannot even fathom having had gone through years of it and then being left. There would be little hope. For me.
It’s so terrifying once you wake up , knowing that the wife you loved and trusted had so little respect for you... She has a PUBLIC face and a PRIVATE face. Sometimes seems SO NICE! And then at other times is SUCH A B**TH! I have ALWAYS come home every day after work, I have a FEW friends whom I see very occasionally... but does that MATTER to her? NO!
Thats only because you don't believe you deserve better. The work on the self (loving self first) is essential after getting out of a narcissistic relationship.
I don't know if there are more of them now or if they are more noticeable and there's always been this many. These days there are many narcs in the spotlight. Celebs and politicians, etc. And they have emboldened narcs everywhere to be openly horrible where they once stayed hidden in the shadows. In dealing with the narc in trying to get away from, I realized I went from 1 narc relationship after another. I finally started seeing that it was my insecurity and desperate need for love that left me susceptible to their manipulation. I won't be getting into something again until I explore and deal with my own issues because there are plenty of narcs out there waiting to jump in where the last one left off and the only way I can avoid getting sucked into another abusive relationship is to heal myself so that they no longer have the ability to pull me in. Until then. It will always be a line of narcs waiting for me. Broken me is their favorite food. They can smell the insecurity and need from miles away.
@@annatetiad.4991i know the comment said relationship, but with me it's not even about intimate relationships. my dad, mom and ex are 3 different types of narcs. i worked with a narc, got burnt out and the job right after my burnout also had a narc which i had to work with everyday. obviously im not diagnosing them, so these are not facts but a lot of them have tendencies at least. i get triggered by those tendencies and that's why i notice it very often.
There are people waking up to this, but there are also people trying to bury it. Narcissistic abuse absolutely exists and healing from it is a long and painful journey, but it is absolutely worth it. Thank you for staying committed to educating people about this issue, Dr. Ramani!
In my former so-called marriage, red flags were batting me over the head. So, I met up with his ex-wife because I heard horrible stories about her but the stories had changed each time he shared them, which he loved to do with everyone. I have a keen memory. They share two kids together so she was part of the package when we married and I found her to be really nice. Eventually I asked her to coffee because things didn’t add up and I had questions and she was concerned why I was staying at my folks house the last few days. She told me how he beat her so badly that she was hospitalized and he was arrested months after they were married, their child was a newborn at the time of the violent assault. I looked it up and it was on record! During our conversation she told me that he recently met up with his ex girlfriend, gave her money to take his daughter shopping. I knew something was off. He was giving me the silent treatment, it felt like some game and I was done playing. I agree, that you shouldn’t warn the new person in their lives because they already been fed false stories about the you. However, it was nice that I could go to her and ask her to lift the veil from my eyes.
This was an extremely important thing to do and I cannot applaud you enough for doing it! One of the most important lessons in Lundy Bancroft's book, "Why Does He Do That?" states to always try to meet with the previous partners if you can so you can make up your own mind as to whether or not your partner is telling the truth. It's so hard to do, but so important in you can!!!
@@MelancholyRequiem I may read that book, thank you! Anytime a partner talks about how crazy all there exes are really listen. Also see what the family dynamic is with their parents and siblings.
The psychiatric world says there's only 1% of the population that are narcissists. I believe that number is heavily skewed. It's old data that needs to be updated. Narcissism is running rampant in today's society. If it wasn't for amazing people like Dr. Ramani, I think I would have lost my mind already. I unfortunately have had several very abusive narcissists in my life. As if one wasn't enough.
I left my ex on Mother's Day in 1993. I didn't have this, and going to a therapist was a very slow process. I didn't get the Reader's Digest Condensed version of this, nor know that there are tens of thousands of people going through the same exact thing. Only this year, did I find out.
I used to read the ethics column in the NYT. I had to stop reading it and the comments after one too many times of frustration with commenters who have never experienced narcissistic abuse. One too many times reading an account of obvious narcissistic behavior and seeing people respond "you should forgive them. That's your dad, mother, sister, brother, etc." It was triggering.
I was a subscriber for years, but I did have to cancel recently for the same basic reason; so many of the Opinion articles were just blatant victim-blaming and victim-shaming.
We need better and mandatory education for professionals in law and social services on narcissism, trauma bond etc. The victims so often have to fight jet another uphill battle, it's insane. Thank you so much!
In academia, as well. It is insane to me how many psychiatrists in my medical school had no clue about it. It should be taught in medical school and psychology.
@@missdm8137-I never learned about this. I took psychology in college, and I loved it, but they never told us about this… because Narcissists cannot be cured with talk therapy or drug therapy So they’re even more dangerous because nobody’s talking about it in psychology classes in college Which means that nobody you go to for help has learned anything about this To them both people usually look narcissistic, because they’re saying the same things … because the narcissist, of course, is mirroring you Plus, they love to play the victim
They’ll make any excuse.. his excuse is true. He DID cheat for that reason. He would’ve also cheated if you left him alone when he wanted company. Or if you watched your tv show instead of his. Or if you forgot to order his favorite dessert from that restaurant you frequent. All narcissists cheat. And the reasoning will always be your fault or something that has nothing to do with them. Even though it has EVERYTHING to do with their excessive need for attention, admiration, and control. They use sex to control. It’s one of the best ways to control a supply. Anyway, I hope you’re on your journey to healing!! 🎉🙌🏾💗
My uncle was this way. My aunt put up with him for 50+ years and multiple illegitimate children until she had enough when she was in her 60’s. She’s 80 now and married to a wonderful man who she met once she put my awful uncle behind her.
I have read self help books since my late teens. Remember “I’m Okay, You’re Okay”?. I am in my late sixties. I had recently told a dear friend I’m done trying to fix myself. Not done learning and growing, but accepting of myself as the imperfect human that I am. Then I looked up narcissism. It explained SO MANY things. So I just pre-ordered your book. Thank you for your videos.
Your senario of how it should be handled, is exactly how I tried to handle it. I focused on my relationship with my children. Taking them to the zoo. museums, plays, concerts, movies, parks, etc. Taught them my values and morals. Always encouraged whatever arts, music, & other activites interested them. I shared joint custody and had very little conact with him. After 15 yrs., she left him for cheating on her. Our kids were grown and I helped them get out on their own. They recently assured me that my being there for them always, was the only sane part of their lives. They no longer choose to see him.
This very thing happened to me when I went to a divorce attorney. He blamed me to my face that I was the cause when in fact it was a boldface lie. As my husband sat in jail for abuse, I couldn't believe this attorney "turned evil" on me.
Welcome to our modern legal system. It does not care who is right or who is wrong. All that matters is who it decides is going to win at the beginning. They can bring nothing and then lie their asses off under oath day after day (Absolute bizzaro world level nonsense) and nothing will happen to them even when they are getting called out on it live in court, and you can bring in literal books worth and movie-length hours of videos showing them lying and worse from start to finish and none of it will matter if the system decided that they are who they want to back for whatever reason. I went through it for 2+ years. He had nothing that worked in his favor (supported me massively in proving my points though) and both sides knew it. My side brought in an overwhelming amount of evidence against him and in the end, the judge simply refused to look at anything I had, due to how long it would take to review (literal days) and then sided with him citing lack of evidence on my part as the reason. My lawyers were awesome but they flat out said that this is how our legal and law enforcement systems work now. It's no longer about evidence and fact, it's about whomever the judge or law enforcement officers decide they want to see win.
My narc ex married the woman he was cheating with. As far as I am concerned she knew she was marrying a man who is willing to cheat on his wife. I feel absolutely no need to warn her. Thank you Dr. Ramani, you have been a big help in my healing journey. I am a joyful and more authentic self and continue to work on healing.
Completely agree! Reminds me of a fable where a man was crossing a bridge and a talking snake (poisonous) pleaded with the traveler to pick him up and carry him because he was tired and feeling sick. The weary traveler finally decided to pick him up and carry him. When he got him across the bridge to the destination, the snake bit him. The traveler was shocked, and said, “But I saved you, how could you do that?” The snake responded, “You knew what I was when you picked me up”. I feel any woman who openly gets into a relationship with a man who is cheating should not be surprised when they later cheat on them. They knew what he was when they started out.
My son warned my ex’s girlfriend once. He said “he’s not a good man, you should move on.” She heard him, but didn’t. Of course she ended up breaking up with him. I found out he was going to ask her to marry him on HIS birthday. This is a narcissist I was married to for 20 years, and three kids. Every female that he connects to, leaves him within months or less. While I can’t warn them, it seems like they learn soon enough. He wasn’t much of a cheater, but he was rotten every way else. It’s amazing how much better life gets when you leave these people behind. Hope you are doing amazing, and blessings 💖✨ (Edited for grammar and clarity)
I mostly don't feel sorry for her because he more than likely lied on you too her to make her feel like the winner. It's actually sad. But congrats on losing the weight!!
Thank-you so much for your work in these videos! I left a narcissist spouse in October 2001 after 16 years of her drama and gas-lighting. I wish I could have seen your videos back in the 1990's! With very few exceptions, the overwhelming response was summed up by my mother: "You were married to her 15 years longer than we thought you would be!" Friends finally came up to me and told me stories they knew about her that they were afraid to bring to me for fear of losing me as a friend. When divorcing a narcissist, you will find out who your true friends are. I was fortunate to have many friends and a great deal of support. It took me a whole year to work up the courage and to make sure I was doing the right thing by leaving but I have been happy almost every day since walking out. I literally walked out with nothing but an overnight bag. I couldn't take anymore. Nothing I left in the house we owned together was worth another day with her.
The lawyer sounds like a cheater themselves because who truly could defend cheating for ANY reason. Thank you for feeling rage like us regular folks. You’ve always shined a light on what is really happening when it comes to the games narcissist play.
This is something I have never understood. How can a person make a defense for cheating on a spouse? There is no defense for it. None. The message I got when my ex cheated on me seemed to be the same message I've gotten all my life: it was my fault she betrayed me.
Thank you for this video. I work in domestic abuse and only discovered through my job, how many people supporting victims of abuse (e.g. solicitors, social workers of children) don't understand the dynamics played out in domestic abuse. It's frustrating as hell. They make so many decisions so often where me and my colleagues are head-in-hands shaking our heads. Sometimes they put the victim at risk by disclosing information to the abusive person, or keep children with a dangerous and neglectful parent. Like you say, it looks like it's with the assumption that they're dealing with two rational people, who are trying their best to find a solution. Or a "bad break up". Or it'll be described that the abusive parent who neglects the kids "doesn't understand what's expecting of them in regards to meeting the children's needs" and I'm sitting there like "of course they f*cking understand, they just don't f*cking CARE!! They have capacity. They read English. They just don't want to do it!!" It's heartbreaking what ignorance victims of abuse come up against when trying to protect themselves and the most precious beings in their life - their children. I'm glad you've touched on it in this video. And I thinks it's good what you said about feeling it out with different legal people, to see if they understand the imbalanced power dynamic of an abusive relationship.
Dr. Ramani, I am a native Californian (born in 1950). My wife (who is also a native Californian), and I departed the People's Republic of what became "Narcissfornia", in 2010 and have never looked back. We now happily live in rural Virginia. Thank you for your instruction and assistance in dealing with narcissists in our life.
@@darcie1962 Well, yes. We tell them that we are from SoCal. The Good Folk here in Albemarle County don't appear to have a problem with us. Or, if they do have problems, they haven't mentioned it to us. We moved to Northern Virginia (NoVa) in 2009. January of 2014 marks the start of our 15th year in Virginia.
She has changed my life with her knowledge of the how and why of narcissist cruelty and motivations. Years of escalating unkindness and manipulation have been put into perspective. Feeling guilty and confused have diminished as i have realized that my fifty year old daughter will never change no matter what I say or do even though it hurts. Dr. Ramani is a lifesaver.
*Your snarkiness is healing, Dr. Ramani!* 😄❤ I took a conflict resolution class and someone tried the old "every conflict has two contributors" line after I described a betrayal that was truly selfish and one-sided. It was like a mini graduation day that I was able to calmly say No, actually in this case it really was entirely the other person's fault. AND I didn't ruminate or gaslight myself later. Huzzah! 🎓
When my parents were getting a divorce we children got some counseling ourselves. I told them how I was feeling and I HATED it when the counselor dismissed what I said because 'everyone has their own truth to what happened' Such bs, people might have their own truth, but there is also THE truth
@@karinisvetcool What you just said is truth! : - ) I'm sorry you had such an invalidating counselor at such a tough time. : - ( One truth I've learned the hard way is that there are a lot of counselors out there with poor self-insight who project their own issues and biases inappropriately.
@@orielwiggins2225 Aw, thanks! : - ) I still have to battle internalized gaslighting in other situations, but that experience was a turning point in my healing because it was so clear the other person was 100% at fault. It make me realize I'd been brainwashed that I'm not ALLOWED/qualified to validate my own feelings, reality, or worth, and I was so disgusted by that it lit a fire in me to validate the heck out of myself! ; - D Wishing godspeed to you and all of us on this healing journey! ❤
That attorney is so full of bravo sierra. I’m going through a divorce from a narcissistic cheater and for anyone to even imply I had something to do with it is upsetting. I tried EVERYTHING I could even to the point it not only affected my mental health but physical health.
This is exactly the reason I haven’t gotten a divorce…and I never even realized it. The physiological trauma that comes with trying to hold my truth and reality with what he needs me to believe is reality is literally a mind f*%# to the highest power. And having to make yourself hold it for the sake of peace in the house and for my kids is…willing having to accept and participate in insanity to survive. Then there’s the part where he can’t even admit to things I was there for…I’m trying no contact-my anxiety is extreme at times throughout the day waiting for what’s coming next and believing I really have nothing to go on and I don’t even know what to say. Thinking about explaining our life and situation makes my body shake because I can already feel the minimization coming and I can’t afford to get any smaller.
This is exactly what my narcissistic ex-husband would tell me every time he cheated. It was my fault because I caused him so much stress, I didn't appreciate him, I didn't listen to him and blah blah blah. It never occurred to him that his stress was caused by the fact that he was trying to get away with something. I bought it for the first affair, twisted myself into a pretzel trying to please him. Finally got into recovery for co-dependency and was able to leave him.
I was grey-rocking my ex husband not even knowing what it was,I was just so tired of his BS and couldn't listen same fairy tales any more...doing things I like and ignoring him. He turned into a monster, angry and frustrated, in lack of supply. So sad human being 😢
@@Olivera81He blamed me for his lack of supply even though he had no interest in building any actual love between us. It was my fault that he didn’t have anybody to cheat on me with. If he started being nice all of the sudden it was a sure fire way to know he had found a new supply.
I love Dr. Ramani's sarcasm here! After spending most of my 67 years recovering from being raised by a malignant narcissist mother who cheated, got pregnant with her boyfriend when I was a year old, and dragged me through two more of her 5 marriages before escaping to build my own life. People who think they are experts and advised me to make peace with and rebuild my relationship with my mother have constantly been a part of my life that has challenged me. Thank goodness I didn't marry a narcissist and have to deal with this too!
Your mom sounds just like mine. I am also 67. My mom was married four times. She's passed away now. I cut off contact with her when I was just a teenager. I never saw her again. It always made me cringe when people would tell me I should reconnect with my mom. There is no mending a relationship with a narcissist.
It’s still the hardest part of the most narcissistic relationship I’ve ever been here, is her unwavering commitment towards defending herself no matter how clearly she was and it is in the wrong.
I'm an LMFT in upstate NY and I've encountered three law guardians who were as harmful as the one mentioned here. I've experienced a very strong anti-father bias here even when in the cases mentioned, it was the father who was by far the more stable and emotionally healthy and accessible parent. The law guardians in those cases ruined those families by believing the narcissistic mums who successfully alienated the better parent. It made me sick. Thank you for this video.
Then just don't comment, this lawyer put themselves out to be kicked. Plus, I said in a main reply that this ex-wife wasn't trying to keep changing the dynamic and make things better so the comment was off base to the situation.
A lawyer friend told me a story of one of his friends (a woman) who was married to a cheating irresponsible husband. His friend eventually got physically sick to the point that she was dying. She wanted a divorce and contacted him. My friend proudly told me how he mediated them that they went back together. Not long after, his friend died. Looking at the horror in my face, he probably realized that I didn't think keeping them together was a good idea. He then tried to defend his stand, explaining how it was best, and how at least his friend had somebody by herself when she died. After all she was already dying. I was too tired to have an argument, so I just said that if I'd had a husband like that, I'd rather have been alone when I died instead of having a monster standing right next to me.
I understand completely. I get so ill because it's happened to me. I rage and cry privately the unfairness of it all. The narcissist who is the actual perpetrator acts victim, while the actual victim is framed at the perp. The true victim (of betrayal, abuse, exploitation) gets hate, blame, judgement while the narcissist gets all the sympathy, empathy, kindness, is completely innocent, blameless etc. The entire world is absolutely fucked up in this way. It's everywhere you look. Welcome to the mirror world.
I also find, at 75 years old, that people pride themselves on their book learning today and brandish their degrees while exhibiting very little common sense and ability to look into the other person's eyes. I began to notice this trend in the late 80s with job interviews changing from looking you squarely in the eye and making an evaluation on the spot to cringingly clinging to psychological and personality tests which, frankly, revealed more about the interviewer and/or company than the interviewee. I always had the feeling that the interviewer was using these questions like a Rorschach test because they didn't possess the strength of character to intuit or discern a person's real intent or MO, and they hid their weakness behind such tests or HR questionnaires.
Trauma survivors have a particularly hard time differentiating, even if the partner isn't a narcissist. My wife almost cheated and then told me, and we started couples' therapy. I was going over repeatedly in my mind "What did I do? Maybe if I change this... or this." It still took me a good two weeks to admit to myself, and tell her, "this wasn't my fault, and I didn't deserve this" She was glad I told her.
My mediation lady for divorce actually allowed and even egged on my ex-husband’s claims that I have a written diagnoses of borderline personality disorder. And actually no one showed me this supposed evidence they had. And she actually had the audacity to ask me if I’m on medicine for this issue. I asked and actually begged to see this diagnosis that no one could produce. And in the end I looked like the unhinged fool because I was clearly upset being accused of having a mental disorder. I told them I have a diagnosis of CPTSD but not what they accuse me of. I told her I don’t take any medication for any mental disorder. And she said, “sometimes that’s not a good thing. Sometimes medicine helps.” I couldn’t win for losing. Seriously it was horrible.
It's not you and they're so good at turning it all on you. I have the same problem and it continues on and on. You have to find a place of peace and not let anyone into that place. Be mindful and cautious of everyone and anyone who wants to be your friend. I'll bet the "mediation lady" is a narcissist herself. She doesn't have the ability to see what's going on. Don't bring up CPTSD again, DO NOT, it won't work in your favor. These people are really good making you think you're crazy.
No one should be diagnosing you except for mental health professionals. Trying to convince you that you are sick without an official diagnoses is evil.
what fails me is how any kind of mental illness has anything to do with anything in this scenario. but what fails me even more is how a so-called mediator could be so daft and unethical. i'm so sorry you had to put up with such bs.
Dr. Ramani, you are a voice of sanity, reason and just plain commonsense. THANK YOU! Please keep speaking out and up! Narcissism(sp?) isn't just found in people. It's rears its ugly head in businesses, organizations, and supposedly "safe" support groups. I am a 76 yrs old woman and I have experienced narcissisim(?), gaslighting and abuse of all kinds appear in the least expected areas. Keep on educating us!
A few years ago, as I was considering separating from my husband, several people close to me were concerned about what his family would do rather than what my husband would do. Thankfully it worked out and, after going low/no contact with my in-laws, things are stable. They had shown who they truly were upon the divorce of their parents and one sister and it wasn't pretty. I am glad to have removed myself, largely, from the toxicity.
I'm thinking I will have to rent my place and move due to a whole family of narcissicists who live in this building. There is simply no reason for their behaviour, they are all just very toxic. No consideration of other owners legal rights, the body corporate law, council law, and are aggressive and abusive. Needless to say they have zero friends and most are not working. One only lasted in a job a week. Guess they realised what they are dealing with. They have no concept that their issues are actually caused by themselves.
Thank you for this, it was SO validating. My ex husband was emotionally and verbally abusive for years, grossly selfish, and a cheater who ultimately justified his infidelity as follows: “I was so sad and lonely because you made me feel unloved, not enough hugs/sex/praise.” Foolishly I bought his lies, threw myself all over him to prove that I loved him, and guess what: HE KEPT SCREWING AROUND.
having lived a similar scenario I agree 100% … don’t write the letter. I never did and I’m glad. She’ll never understand and any good intentions will not matter. LivingWell is the best revenge for sure.!!! And, YES A+++++ about that comment!❤
The situation described by the letter writer was exactly like my marriage and divorce, except it never occurred to me to warn her because she knew he was cheating on me just as she was cheating on her husband. Healing came to me the day I woke up and realized how lucky I was to be out of a horrible situation. The other woman gave me a chance at a better life by taking my narcissistic spouse away. My life is good, and 20 years later, she is still stuck with an aging, sickly, abusive narcissist.
Bothsiderism isn't just dangerous in politics. I had experience with it on the job. The narcissist makes accusations to the boss that YOU did something horrible. Of course, its been carefully fabricated. The boss says, in a meeting to resolve the fake accusation, says that both are at fault. You can't defend yourself because you didn't even know this was a thing. Then, YOU are unaware. So many situations where this happens. Same song...different tune.
Sadly, you are spot on, as it appears that corporations love to promote narcissists to the highest levels in the organization. Often narcissists are the ones who will step on everyone to get ahead, which means trying to get information out of co-workers, bad-mouthing the boss. Why? So they can run back and tell it, and then move up in ranks for brown-nosing. Once they get promoted, then they find others to do the work for them, because they really aren’t that intelligent, but just sneaky and conniving. I am starting to think many corporations are narcissistic, by design. I wish for no more narcissists, never again.
When one side is acting out of pure evil there is not 2 sided to the story. My narc loves to say there’s 2 sides to the story to try to cover up his evil behaviors.
That's right. They are trying to take from you. That is whole game. If they can convince you, or others who have power over the narrative, that you are equally at fault when it is not true, that opens them up to be able to take more from you and then blame you for it. It's pretty nasty game.@@ThimbleFox350
@@guidinglightorphansinc.5255 It's a bitter pill to swallow when you discover you were manipulated by those who you thought loved you. Stay strong 💪🏼 ❤️
As a child therapist, I've been through a few of these CFI interviews (child family investigators). I have told what I've observed, what I know, my professional opinion, yet EVERY TIME the CFI comes back with a vanilla report going right down the middle between the couple. We're talking about documented child molestation, neglect of a severely autistic girl, one parent being obviously mentally ill and self-absorbed, drug addicted parents, etc. Every time it's 50/50 custody! These investigations cost the families thousands of dollars, and are a COMPLETE waste of money. Meanwhile, I've had CFI's write my name in the report and quote word for word what I told them in confidence, resulting in me being threatened by the dysfunctional parent. Your California "advocate" must be part of some sadistic club that gets off on bilking parents for money while they ruin children's lives.
It's like the teacher who gives everyone a "B" on their homework. 50/50 means nobody has a right to get mad at you... so you can go on being a total unethical slacker at your job.
I tried for a minute to make my ex understand why cheating was so inappropriate and hurtful and why I finally left him. He apologized profusely, but by this time I was such a pro at seeing through his narc behavior, I stopped. I blocked his number after being with him for almost 15 years. The secret to my success is watching your videos every day because they are a reminder that these crazys have no cure and any attempt at fixing them is a pitiful exercise in futility. Thank God for people like you, Dr Ramani.🙏 You are changing the world! I mean it! Love you❤
Good for you!! I know that was tough after being together for so long. But remembering the hurt and pain he caused made it not so tough I’m sure. Keep trudging along! No contact DOES get better!
@@chanel82593 Thank you. I can see how it gets better and better, but I need to stay mindful because any little doubt could be the kiss of death 😀. Thanks for writing!
As you said, "a pitiful exercise in futility" is correct. I have let my guard down a thousand times in the futile hope that I was getting through to him. Ha! What a joke. I can't believe I've been falling for it for decades. God help me out of this mess soon.
@@Vic-Meow take great care and plan your escape! Warmest regards for a successful plan coming to fruition. These people really are living in a different reality. So sad 😧
I am glad I listened to you, I always felt that a third person could not come between two people and so it was somehow a lack or something in the relationship. I am glad you set me straight because I had one relationship with a narcissist that just about destroyed me. Thanks
You are so right! My best friend’s daughter was involved in a narcissist relationship. When they ‘legally separated’ the custody issues were the worst as ‘he’ convinced the legal system what a great dad he was. It took much heartache and documentation of bruises, neglect (leaving a preschool child for up to 6 hours by herself, failure to bathe feed etc) to convince the court that what he said couldn’t be relied upon.
I love the NYT's comment section for this reason. Recently, an ethics article about a husband lying to his hardworking hospital doctor wife for many years about his financial situation. While working her ass off, paying the mortgage, he never told her he was very wealthy, thanks to a hidden family fund. He went for years and years every morning "to work," only to go to a spa, a cafe, or whatever felt right for him, for instance, a golf club. Meanwhile, she sometimes worked double lifts, as expected from a hospital doctor. After so many years, he wonders if she should finally learn how rich he and her life is. So, how were the comments? Same tone, same sentiment as here. At least a few commentators pointed out that if he is lying to her, pretending to have a second life for so long, if he has the means for it, he probably had too many affairs, escorts, and whatnot, right? And that he must be greedy, afraid of telling her how good their life is because she would likely divorce him as soon as she found out that their marriage is a big lie and that he let her work so hard for so many years. But the overall NYT user comments were... frankly, hilarious. Defending him. Congratulating him. Yet, all of it did sound, to me, like a story of a wealthy narcissist who has been controlling his poor wife for ages.
It doesn't surprise me. NYT promotes transphobia and silences their staff for being "unloyal" and "trying to ruin their image" when the staff point out this flaw.
Take the story and reverse victim and offender role to see it in a different light. This same story works for the cheater being the victim of narcissistic abuse. See my comment that explains further.
I absolutely wish that I had heard of you when I was leaving and divorcing my x husband whom is very narcissistic! The whole court system is narcissistic which makes it almost impossible for someone to deal with this in a healthy way.
Thanks for articulating this feeling of frustration so well! I heard something similar to this at my brother's wedding about both people being responsible and that marriages fall apart because BOTH parties dropped the ball. I instantly lost all respect for the person giving the speech because my dad cheated on my mom who, at the time, had her hands full with three kids. It's such a cheap way to avoid taking any responsibility. Anyway, my dad's on his fourth official wife now and even she thinks he's crazy.
You nailed this one. Thank you Dr Ramani. In my case I was replaced for a younger woman. 15 yrs ago. I have finally healed to a lovely life with a new caring man❤️ My children dont see their father unless he invites. They still dont know what is wrong, but my daughter said: “I wish dad would work on himself like you did!” Children are very wise. My attorney knew. She saw through him and followed the rules in my country back then. Long before I understood. I wish you all the best of healing💫
Thank you so much for commenting about your positive life post-betrayal! Stories like yours are like a healing balm for all the hurt and unfairness. : - ) ❤❤
Wise wise lady Ramini❤ not because you are a psychotherapist, but because you invest your empathie and human experience in your professional experience. God bless you 🙏❤love and respects from Beirut 🇱🇧🇱🇧🇱🇧
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Dr. Ramani!! You really understand how these lawyers or even court officials who have the power to make decisions regarding divorce outcomes regarding finances or children can really abuse their power. You really get it!!!
Yes, they do! The ‘destructive narcissist ‘ in my life (a sibling) is famous for graciously ‘forgiving’ you for all the wrongs she has done to you... she’s on my no contact list now...
The counselor I saw during my divorce turned out to be a cheater himself. I figured it out after multiple sympathetic comments about my narcissistic cheating ex. It really made things harder and the reality was that he made my trauma about himself and his ego.
🫨😵💫 my God… And therefore making trauma more…. I hope you’ve been able to to carefully look for a new therapist you must listen to them and know when to dump them and run my heart goes out to you
I've been TWO days in a new job and have been given 'kind warnings' about an 'evil' person in the group. My God, the simmering resentments, perceived slights, inflated egos. So far my strategy is to say "Good to know" "thanks for telling me". Oftentimes it's best to just let things play out in the mess of people's own creation while being like Switzerland- stay neutral and prioritise protecting yourself :)
This reads like you're assuming that MULTIPLE people warning you are all incorrect, oversensitive, and egotistical rather than possibly *right* and driven half-mad by an actually evil person's toxicity. Instead of blaming them, I'd be mentally THANKING them and making my plan to get the F out. I once warned the new admin for a narc boss who destroyed a once well-functioning and harmonious organization that I'd seen people think they could handle her then wind up changed for the worse. She chose to stay despite having another (less prestigious) job offer, *relished* her eventual power as favored right-hand man and snitch, then had the gall to come to me after the narc boss was finally fired humiliatingly and escorted out by security to tell me I'd been right in my warning and try to rehabilitate her reputation. People's reputations, health, hard-won careers, job prospects, finances, children's tuition and insurance, etc. were willfully and sometimes GLEEFULLY damaged by her scumbag overlord, yet she wanted me to retroactively absolve her for colluding in all that harm. No, thanks! In any toxic system there are victims, bystanders, collaborators, and resisters. True victims may not have a choice, but anyone who thinks staying neutral is a morally neutral choice in the presence of toxic behavior is kidding themselves.
That's what I would do at work. Eventually, I watched as I became the "evil" person because... wait for it, I didn't get involved with office politics. Yep, that same person who tried to "warn" me ended up targeting me. Apparently I was "cold" and "stuck up." As a woman, I learned the hard way to keep my distance in work environments. All a woman has to do in a work environment is be seen having lunch with a man more than once for office gossips to spread rumours that she "f*cked her way to the top."
So, are the warnings coming from the narcissists ? Or are victims warning you as to who the narcissist is ? Time will Definitely tell. Either way, be grateful to the bad guys who ALWAYS.. eventually... reveal themselves. And realize you may be better off working anywhere but there. However, a workplace, any workplace nowadays, w/out narcissism is becoming a unicorn 🦄 But I believe you can find a workplace w/out narcissism, so If it were me, I would go back to looking for a job. Buckle up, you're likely in for a rough ride until then.
Thank you Dr Ramani ! Yes we who have lived with it know ! I learnt the hard way so called professionals meditators Solicitors family lawyers Ect can’t comprehend this very cruel personality disorder!
Cheaters gonna cheat. No matter how good or bad the marriage was. The partner who looks elsewhere was going to cheat. Thank you for being the voice of reason. 💝
🤯🤯 My back then best friend said the same to me when I was abused and discarded. I cut her out of my life too. Enablers can be as damaging as narcissists themselves. Thank you very much again for another great video, Dr. Ramani!
I had a therapist who did this to me regarding a toxic work place environment heavy ladden with narcissist bosses. The therapist even stated that there was definite narcissistic abuse done to me and down right toxic workplace environment. But, then told me it was my fault because I need to have better boundaries. Ummmm..... narcissists never adhere to boundaries! Boundaries with bosses, where I have no power or authority, who have a history of destroying people and a large organization that is historically systemic dysfunctional. The reputation was so much so, that where I got my doctoral degree (two states over) from, knew of how toxic the organization was. Needless to say, I became the frog in the pot of boiling water. Didn't get out in time and got severely burned. Anyway, my main point.... even therapists can victim blame. I dropped that therapist immediately. Have boundaries with a narcissist...🤦 There is no such thing, just get the f*** out! The false idea that you will change things or that they will ever change (esp with entire systems) is you need to just (do this or that) and if you didn't it is your fault .... is so damaging. 🤬
Boy, I wish you had been my therapist when I was getting a divorce, and it’s true that a narcissistic spouse does seek novelty, and the more shock factor and gaslighting they can serve up with their betrayals, the happier it makes them. Mediation from my experience, is just another way to shell out more money and these judges who tell you to work it out between yourselves instead of reading your file, need replaced. Thank you Doctor, first time in decades I heard from somebody else the same thing I had been thinking.
I'm internally (because it's almost 2am here in Australia now) screaming with you Dr. Ramani! Your videos helped me heal from a long and traumatic divorce with my narc ex husband 4 years ago. I have 70pages worth of evidence of how much "sorrow" and "frustration" he felt where according to thisss family lawyer in California, justified him enough to cheat and have a secret family for half our marriage, 5 years. To think there ARE many more family lawyers and mediators out there with this kind of skewed mindset and perspective when they honestly do not know the TRUTH of the real matter in these types of scenarios and the games narcs play during a divorce showdown is actually very scary and dangerous. Thank you Dr. Ramani for being the VOICE for us narc survivors and warriors and for calling bs out.
You have to realize that there are narcissistic lawyers so they will side with the narcissist. Be prepared to meet unpleasant people all your life and leave as soon as you perceive that they are not nice people. I have been told by more than one person that “everyone is basically good” while watching the news and crime reports that confirm that there are rapists and murderers out there, criminal organizations, terrorists groups as well as arsonists and looters. Something is not quite right with these people who pretend that there is nothing to worry about from other people.
Totally agree! My former husband was a serial cheater. I did tell my grown children what my private investigator found out and gave them my own eye witness account. This explained to them why I was divorcing their dad. They were behind me 100%. I wrnt through 3 attorneys before I found one who could understand what I wanted I was a "stepford" wife. He just left because I had become accustomed to living life alone, and he felt ignored, unwanted Love your stuff, Dr. Ramani!
Yes, you are absolutely correct. I’ve been through it years ago. I’m fine now after finding my true love who brought me my life back. He helped me fine my self esteem and self worth. Sadly 2 of my 3 grown children have no communication with me without explanation. I still send cards to my grandchildren and them, so they know I will always love them. That’s all that I can do. And pray.
💥🔥🔥🔥🔥 🤬I feel like my head is on fire too after hearing this report. Again and again people and self-acclaimed professionals in our society blame the victim without even knowing the history and the people involved because 1. It's easy, 2. They don't know how to fight the bully 3. They try to be "politically correct", although phony, to say "I need to hear both side of the story first". This is what we are dealing with right now. Thank you Dr Ramani for bringing this up.
I’ve been to a lot of therapists, both throughout my marriage and since, none have mentioned the word narcissist. I think the majority just don’t know. I found out what it was by accident surfing the net, and then went down the rabbit hole, this was a yr out of my marriage. Realised my parents and ex were narcs and I attract them. When we did marriage counselling, they sided with him, I was so mixed up and gaslit that I couldn’t explain myself. Glad to be free and still working on myself.
Me too. It is just fascinating to me how many mental professionals are not familiar with narcissist personality disorder, or some other research. At the beginning, few months after meeting NPD, I was seriously considering leaving and it was, not only the environment, but the therapist who told me a few times that I am imagining, overthinking, having "conspiracy theories" and should stop talking about it all of the time and focus on other things. I wish I saw dr Ramani's video then, but I though narcissist is just a person obsessed with himself and not dangerous so I never googled that. It took me so long to get over shaming my self how stupid I was - even though I knew NPD was bad from the first time we spoke I stayed like an idiot and thought that I am overreacting. Looking now, he had all of the classic text-book first signs of NPD and in stead of therapist validating my perception, they told me I am overdramatizing and should just continue.
Any good therapist is extremely familiar with and have interacted with narc. I worked with one therapist for 5 consecutive years after a traumatic divorce from a narc. She helped me understand I had been raised by a narc mother then married one! It took a long time to heal from the damage.
@@missdm8137 - all licensed therapists are educated about NPD. They have to be just as they have to be educated about all personality disorders and mental health diagnoses!!
I am so so so happy that professionals like you shed light on what narcissists abuse truly is and now it affects others. Before finding your videos and learning about narcissistic abuse, I believed that it was my fault…that I was not good enough for him…for the marriage. It is amazing how these “so called” professionals have that kind of prejudgment without any empathy for the actual victims!
Get'em! Dr Ramani don't play always giving me that therapy and knowledge I need. thank you bc of you I have healed tremendously I took my life back giving narc injuries every time they come around me
I’ve been in situations like this one….that I call “twilight zone”….because I have a severely autistic son and have to deal with many different types of professionals and government people…it’s BAD out there!! There are soooooo many narcissists in this world nowadays and they cause so much damage when they are in “helping” professions. Before I knew what narcissism was, it was mind boggling. Now, thanks to earth angels like yourself and a few others, I’ve learned and developed the gift of discernment. I mean, just look at all the politicians nowadays. Our world is in trouble. We have an ETHICS/MORALS problem and the self regulation of these professionals is a joke….as the complaints are handled by more narcissists!! I call it spiritual warfare…..scary times 😢
I Agree! I always thought politicians should be serving the people, looking at problems from all sides, gathering information, making informed decisions.Even if having differing views there should be an element of RESPECT. We are losing this element of our society. Some politicians are actively modelling/encouraging DISRESPECT. I feel for children growing up in in this world and ultimately for the future of it (the planet). Regarding the self regulation of professionals eg politicians, CEO’s etc - the system seems geared to stop that happening. Eg. See what happened to Bandy X Lee.
Thank you for making these videos. You have made a difference in my life. I’ve gained valuable insight, & learned how to establish healthy boundaries. Simply amazing !!❤
As a therapist who deals in family law (formerly a public paralegal before they outlawed this), in my rural area, the legal system truly is run by the good-ol'-boy system. Narcissism is absolutely thick in the court/legal system. The judge has allowed the other party in my own case to have such leniency (for not showing up in court!), that the dissolution has drug on for over 1.5 years where there is nothing to fight over (no kids, no home) and my own attorney labels the actions he sees as "passive-aggressive" but still not sure what I'm paying him for if this isn't resolving. The Sheriff's Department was instructed to ARREST the other party for contempt after not showing up so many times (mind you, days off work that I have taken where it has been loss of income, and witnesses hanging out in court hallways that I have to pay for), but reported that the Sheriff's Office was "understaffed" to arrest, so papers were served, but no court date and it still drags on. The clerk won't set a date without an arrest because that was the judge's order. So, thousands of dollars later while I await folks to get their stuff together, I'm still stalked and harassed - a lot of details being left unsaid, but include his brother's trucking company driving by my bedroom window engaging Jake Brakes or the cable cords outside the house being yanked with a 2-week re-installation wait. I often have folks come in to see me and tell me how they were "tricked" into coming to our county by the love bombing of narcissists, and as they are walking away, are impregnated or stripped of ability to have their own income and then trapped in the county (because it is the county of the child's birth or there is no economy or relatives to help step in). So, with no job, and having a narcissist as the co-parent/ex who just feeds on their struggles - it creates multiple issues for all involved, except the narcissist. This is so bad that I have a working theory that our little place (formerly known as Murderville) was founded by corrupt people (murderers, miners, infantry who crossed over the mountains in their pursuit of take-take-take), that over time, and due to isolation, this is where those behaviors fester and grow. Their abuses don't always thrive in society, but they thrive here. Children exposed to these behaviors, guess what, choose partners themselves who resemble their parent(s). I'm not surprised to hear that the NY attorney in your story has these ideas. People, from all professions or educations/backgrounds, tend to leap to judgments without having the true research - they don't bother to go there either because they don't have to - they make money by just going along with their working theories. In 2023, I often wonder why these types of educational basics aren't taught in high school, and of course the answer is to follow the dollar. You know who else has their system in the palms of their hands (& that expression is meant with all the nuances/ interpretations one might apply) - people who run school districts, people who set the curriculum standards for the states, politicians. Dr. Ramani - I don't have to tell you, but we have a problem here.
I am sympathetic to the sexist abuse culture of your town. But you wrong about one thing. Psychology isn’t a non subject at high school because of corruption. Psychology has only been invented for about 100 years, and until recently was non scientific. If you didn’t like having sex with your husband that was bad at it, they’d tell you to “embrace the penis” mentally instead of someone teaching him foreplay. That was the level of psychology until about the 1980s. It’s all new, mostly built upon original studies that don’t pass standards, etc. until they get it sorted out to less of a personal talent kind of thing, it’s not appropriate for unqualified teachers to teach it.
I agree that qualified folks need to teach subject material - but also, some of the basics of communication and relationship should be taught, not how to "embrace the penis". Some folks with other types of genitals are abusive also. Basics like "take your time to see if it is a good fit" or "how to have non-violent communication" etc are perfectly non-political topics that could/should be taught in perhaps a social studies class, not necessarily a higher level course or in psychology. Also, I have recently taught in the K - 12 system (CA), and I know they don't teach any of that @@M_SC
Ugh I had a therapist tell me that I was the reason someone strayed. I am very attractive and often am treated badly by other women, and I realize now this is possibly where this therapist was coming from. This video reminded me this happened and hearing you say this has really healed me.
many women do and it has gotten me bullied out of jobs@@marycampeau9378 . This therapist was not my therapist but someone highly revered in the community who ran theater productions for survivors of abuse...so I basically was abused by an abuse survivor healing group founder and leader. I mentioned this to someone in the DV organization and they got mad at me for saying she did that to me. Well, she did that to me. Really lame.
I warned my daughters, both beautiful, that their looks alone made them targets of jealousy. Other girls want to take you out of the game and boys just want sex. Unfortunately, they did not heed much advice and experienced trauma from other girls and unfaithful boys. The older is now married to a good man but the scars of a succession of unfaithful boys and men cause her anxiety about her current relationship and that can be a harmful thing.
This is narcissistic gaslighting 101. When someone says that no bad behaviour exists. Except within you. i.e. no one in the world is selfish/unreasonable etc except for you because you won't shut up.
Thank you for this CLARITY. For calling the bullshit with your clear, sane and honest words. Thank you for stepping into the arena in this way. It feels like taking a plunge into some fresh cool water and coming up into this this clear, reset and un-fucked state of being - returning to that intuitive remembering that hey - I fucking know when something is bullshit and when something isn't. You are that voice, returning us to that clarity, and thank you for that.
Spot on, Dr. Ramani...You have excellently described the serial, repeated, conniving cheater is the narcissistic betrayer! They don't stop, they just get good at hiding it.
I had a mediator just like this at my custody hearing in California years and years ago. I thought they were crazy then and I still do. Hearing your assessment of this kind of behavior is validating to my experience some years ago
❤ i’m learning everybody gets to be who they are so we can really see that truth and sometimes it’s our job to simply recognize it, slowly back away, turn, and RUN
Oh Dr Ramani, this was brilliant and witty and I was cheering on all of us as the story unfolded!! Thank you! And trust that those who are healing can see these fundamentally narcissistic attitudes from miles. Trust yourselves, victim blaming can take highly sophisticated levels, but it's still detectable - nope, there's always an honest chat before you cheat. After that, it's done. 😊❤
My ex’s sudden demand for divorce after 17 years of marriage was a blow, and they have continued in the 5 years post-divorce. But the gaslighting as she settled into her new life and buying a home with her new partner felt like I was riding a merry-go-round and being punched each time around. Thanks to ongoing therapy, much work, and information from you and other professionals, I feel that I am healing and have learned that this is a much more pervasive issue than I thought.
Merry-go-round punching😂😂😂😂😂I can relate, they are children still playing and we stand there saying get off, grow up, but they laugh and give you another punch. Love this, thanks survivor friend!
Dr. Ramani, I love you so much! Thank you for telling it like it truly is. You so “get it,” and I am so thankful that you let it be known! Everything you said in this video is 100% accurate. You are a pillar of strength and valuable validation to the list of us who have endured narcissistic abuse.
When they say that both people are to be blamed when a relationship fails, it makes me mad and very sad. When you are dealing with a narcissist, nothing you do matters: they make sure to ruin the entire thing. And, while you stay, you try harder and harder, only for them to treat you worse and worse while blaming you for the problems! My narcissistic partner, for example, tells me that I never apologize for anything while he is the only one to apologize. In a way he's right: he apologizes all the time; only that his apologies mean nothing. Even worse: he thinks he is the hero of the relationship for apologizing. It allows him to blame me even more. In the face of the things he does, apologizing, in this relationship has lost its value.
Narcissists will hurt you and act like you hurt them.
That’s exactly what they do! Lots of projection on their part🤮
They cry out in pain as they strike you.
And convince everyone that you did hurt them lol you cant win with these people, all you can do is let them play themselves
Yessss!!! They do!!!
The comment I didn’t know I needed, but did! So true!!! Omg
Attorney here. Lawyers get no training in psychology, unfortunately. So unless they bother to study it, they're clueless, and often doing a narcissist's gaslighting for them. And of course, they can be narcissists themselves. However, once experienced, attorneys and judges tend to see through the lies of those with serious anti-social personality disorders (sociopaths, psychopaths, etc.). Greater awareness of "ordinary" narcissistic abuse among legal professionals would be helpful - it would be great if experts like Dr Ramani could offer this kind of professional education to lawyers.
Attorney here as well. A few years ago I started to educate myself on the narcissistic dynamics just to have better perspective. It’s made me a better lawyer to see through what one’s not telling me.
Watching all of Dr. R's videos on this topic is a good start.
Family Law Attorney and therapist Bill Eddy has written some great books and articles on "high conflict" divorces. I agree. Attorneys are clueless.
@@TheLegalCodeNYC Family Law Attorney and therapist Bill Eddy has written some great books and articles on "high conflict" divorces. I agree. Attorneys are clueless.
I assumed all lawyers were narcs themselves, judges for sure.
Years ago, i had a spouse walk out without warning or explanation, to be with someone else. We'd never even had a fight. This was traumatic. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But what was MORE traumatic was the reactions i got from people who assumed that i had somehow mishandled and neglected my marriage. I was being blamed. I was humiliated and enraged by comments like, "this is why communication is so important". We weren't having a communication problem! I was being deceived and used.
That is so tough Lisa. I am so sorry.
@@lindamaygregory thanks Linda.
Sadly many victims get blamed. I think many that blame victims truly don't care @ all so they go the easy route blame the victim as that takes no reflection or thought so they go for the easy answer thinking they brilliantly came up with what think is a brilliant answer & they don't have to think about it nor do they want to think about it because they really don't care but have to voice an opinion.
I too have a 'runaway husband'- June 29th '22 we went to the grocery, he bought all his usual 2 week groceries, things had been as usual, except he was spending more & drinking a bit more ( which I attributed to him talking to his Malignant narc brother again on the phone), but I felt things were as normal. July 1st, he gets up, starts packing a bag, & says he's going to visit his brother in Florida but he'll be back the following week for some important doctors I & our cat had ( I don't drive)-- HE DISAPPEARED. NO CONTACT FOR MONTHS..then after finding out at a doctors that I had no insurance (!) I texted that again to the silent black hole phone number..figuring nothing. I actually got a text back!- saying 'I know you aren't well- I don't know what's up with the insurance. I plan to keep paying that until we're legally divorced.' 😳 1st time in 23years I EVER heard or saw that word from him. His narc brother orchestrated me losing everything & getting nothing. And their enmeshed family has made me out to be some crazed monster! There are no answers to what happened to the love of my life, my best friend & dear husband. No pleading or begging for answers gets ANYTHING. Even though I found the other woman the brother hooked him up with left him. NOTHING CAN HEAL THAT TYPE OF UNANSWERED ABANDOMENT. And he knew he was leaving me alone with no family or anyone, & sucked me dry of every cent.
How dare those people judge you. I’m so sorry. 😮
This is EXACTLY why I quit family law and have devoted the rest of my professional days helping women and men who have been victimized by the as$#ones.
Can't work within the system, so I decided to work against it.
Unless an attorney has been a victim of narcissistic abuse, they have ZERO clue.
And they are callous AF.
It's disgusting.
My divorce lawyer told me his clients were more honest in criminal law than in family law. I can't imagine working in the negativity of family law.
I’m learning this the hard way. They are conniving, manipulative liars. Very sneaky & calloused & know how to use the system/laws AGAINST you…the victim of their narcissistic abuse.
❤ hats off to you, lady hats off. My attorney knew who and what he was dealing with. It’s still cost me a fortune, and that young man moved on from law after my case and he was a great lawyer.
God bless you, hon.
I’m Japanese and living in Japan.
I’m going to presentation about Narcissist at Welfare services for mental disorders where I recently get help for my mental health.
Your voices are reaching out and beyond to Japan.
So as a Japanese I want to say thank you for your hard work and helping my bloom liltle by liltle.
I was just there! I loved japan. Btw, hope the presentation goes well
@@swagmuffin9000 Thank you. I hope your health and everything is okey.
I live in Japan. Narcissism is my favorite subject.
@@grapegrappa2133 I thought you live in US. I wish your enjoying life in Japan.
Best wishes for your health and happiness 🙏
One of greatest challenges is to find a lawyer who is unbiased or not a narcissist themselves. This lawyer most likely is a narcissist.
Commissioners and Judges, too, my experience currently.
But won’t you want a narcissist to fight the other narcissist? Or you think they work together to fuck you over
Most lawyers are.
If you aren't crazy, the establishment has no place for you.
Really important advice also for a psychiatrist or therapist. I SO wish I didn't need to learn that one the hard way.
A friend's ex-husband who was a narcissist...was a family & marriage psychologist! Horrifying. Other narcissist we encountered...was a pastor. These sick creeps seek out these kinds of positions. Thank God for the exposure & education on narcissism.
"narcissist...was a family & marriage psychologist!"
Narcissists seek power. What better position of power than to be a psychologist?
Psychologists choose this profession for a reason. Sometimes that reason is to understand and deal with past trauma. While that can certainly produce empathy with clients, it can also result in a loss of professional detachment.
In fairness, tons of people in the psyc field have or have dealt with mental illness before. They do have standards and ethics that do and should absolutely apply to them because they are central in alot of court issues, diagnosises, etc.
But it shouldn't be assumed that he's shit at his job because he may or may not be a shit husband. In the same way you shouldn't judge a therapist with ptsd, depression, bpd, etc etc
@@User-pw3pu "In the same way you shouldn't judge a therapist with ptsd, depression, bpd, etc etc"
I do; sort of. I'm not sure what is meant by "judgment" but a therapist with PTSD and other dysfunctions is going to have difficulty, probably impossible, to know whether an observation is of the client, or oneself *reflected* by the client. But a therapist is not the psychologist; there's probably a benefit to a therapist with the SAME dysfunction as the client; and they can walk together through the valley. The psychologist, however, should have no problems of his own to reflect and mis-judge as being the clients problems. My daughter is an example of a natural reflector; she adopts the behavior, language, even accent, of who she is with. She's also smart and familiar with the DSM and a less experienced psychologist, such as a school counselor, will diagnose exactly what my daughter decides is to be the diagnosis.
Yes, it's usually not conscious either. They need to be in positions of power and control, so that would be in every and any field where there are people to ...dominate. Notice, they tend not to be vets. Animals can't be manipulated like humans.
@@Jennifer-gr7hn I was thinking about why they wouldn't be Vets, and I have an idea. A lot of Marines are on the spectrum, it's a very black and white, cut dry, pass fail type of environment. Could the massive amount of autism tend to push those types away because it A) Destroys inflated egos and B) it's really hard to bullshit people hardwired to be stubborn, rigid and accountable to ridiculous degrees?
This was the entire culture I grew up in. If someone is being abused, they somehow deserve it. I bought into it. I blamed myself. I’ve heard others say they feel they feel they must have something wrong with them for attracting abusers. This is probably the single most destructive part of our society, on a personal level.
Yes and no. I think that a lot of people think that a person in a shitty situating should stand up for themselves and if they don’t then they aren’t a victim, they are a volunteer. I think this largely comes from wishful thinking (if I was in that situation that’s what I would do… or hope to do… kind of thing), largely in part from people who might have trouble emphasizing or accepting weakness (others’ and especially their own)
I certainly don't think someone deserves abuse but I do think someone who is abused ( within context obviously I'm not talking about children etc) believe themselves that they deserve the abuse. We act on our subconscious thoughts. The trick indeed is to not buy into it.
@@sunbeam9222 NAH LOL ALL THAT SHIT HAS BEEN DEBUNKED LOL LIKE BACK IN 2012 SUNBEAM LOL I MEAN THAT WAS LIKE THE BASIC FUNDLEMENTAL OF SELF AWARENESS. THAT IS LIKE STEP 1 LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SUB CONSCIOUS LIVING IN A CULTURE OF COMPLIANCE ONE CAN NOT alter their sub conscious to the point of believing they are living in a different culture society. What I mean is, if everybody is a narc lmao and every single person who is a victim of this EITHER DOES NOT HEAL OR LETS JUST SAY DOES HEAL FROM IT,
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE NEXT STEP OF SELF AWARENESS IS?
YOU WILL EITHER FEEL FIGHT OR FLIGHT " FROZEN " LOL LITTERLY THE RESPONCE THAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE IS STRESSED OUT LIKE 24/7 LOL ITS LIKE TELLING SOMEONE WHO IS IN PRISON TO JUST STOP BEING IN PRISON HAHAHAHA YOU OBVIOUSLY LOVE YOUR MOM, AND YET YOUR MOM ONE DAY SAYS SHE LOVES YOU, AND THE NEXT DAY SHE SAYS SHE WISHES YOU DIE LOL WTF KIND OF SUBCONSIOUS BELIEF DO YOU THINK YOUR " SELF " SHOULD COME UP WITH ?
And lets say, you leave the relationship, lol still stuck, fight or flight from thinking about being abused lol a month, or 2 months go by lol shoot probably 6 months go by. You start to heal, work out, got your mind back to normal, lol what? do you think you wont change into that selfish prick that will never ever give someone a chance with you out of fear? lol you will feel like you have a right to NEVER be abused ever again lol shoot you might even become the abuser since its better than being abused and how do you know what sub conscious beliefs do you want the self to have lol
@@sunbeam9222 These people who think they "deserve the abuse?" Look to the parents, the TRUE PERPETRATORS.
@@clairelane3642 parents also had their own unhealed trauma that made them act as perpetrators. They remained unhealthy. Healthy people don't act cruel. We are grown now, and seemingly able to realise what was done to us was not justified, what was said to us about ourselves was not true. We ( if awareness is present) have the ability to change the internal dialogue and reparent ourselves. It's sure not a short process. But it's a mandatory one. It's understanding that what happened to us was not our fault in any way and also that the new insights provided bring us a gift and also the responsibility to heal the trauma within us. Otherwise what is the other option. Blame our parents for their own lack of awareness? And keep crying over spilled milk? We can either cry with that child within us, or put on our big pants, offer compassion to that that child and say I''m here now , the grown version of you, and I will explain to you what happened, love and protect you.
It’s so terrifying once you wake up , knowing that the husband you loved and trusted had so little respect for you , and then navigating life with others and seeing the disbelief and lack of empathy , it takes a very courageous person to get to the healing side of this horror .
I can feel you. I am terrified as well. These people are like demons that feast of your hearted human feelings. Always trust your inner sense of truth, and heal yourself with so much love. You deserve it. You worth it. ❤❤❤
Yes, its not human
Jeannie Mai is going through this with Jeezy...So, SAD...🙏😔🙏
I’m just getting out of an 8 month relationship and I got the big discard. I’m telling you it’s been the most painful thing I’ve ever gone through. I cannot even fathom having had gone through years of it and then being left. There would be little hope. For me.
It’s so terrifying once you wake up , knowing that the wife you loved and trusted had so little respect for you...
She has a PUBLIC face and a PRIVATE face. Sometimes seems SO NICE! And then at other times is SUCH A B**TH!
I have ALWAYS come home every day after work, I have a FEW friends whom I see very occasionally... but does that MATTER to her? NO!
Narcissism has become such a cancer in society that even if you walk away from one narcissistic relationship, you wind up dealing with another one.
Thats only because you don't believe you deserve better. The work on the self (loving self first) is essential after getting out of a narcissistic relationship.
Being vigilant and doing the inner work needed to renew one's mind is necessary .
Especially when living in the age of A Global Narcissism Epidemic .
@@annatetiad.4991 not really like that. You get so confused you don't know if it is you or them causing the problems.
I don't know if there are more of them now or if they are more noticeable and there's always been this many. These days there are many narcs in the spotlight. Celebs and politicians, etc. And they have emboldened narcs everywhere to be openly horrible where they once stayed hidden in the shadows. In dealing with the narc in trying to get away from, I realized I went from 1 narc relationship after another. I finally started seeing that it was my insecurity and desperate need for love that left me susceptible to their manipulation. I won't be getting into something again until I explore and deal with my own issues because there are plenty of narcs out there waiting to jump in where the last one left off and the only way I can avoid getting sucked into another abusive relationship is to heal myself so that they no longer have the ability to pull me in. Until then. It will always be a line of narcs waiting for me. Broken me is their favorite food. They can smell the insecurity and need from miles away.
@@annatetiad.4991i know the comment said relationship, but with me it's not even about intimate relationships. my dad, mom and ex are 3 different types of narcs. i worked with a narc, got burnt out and the job right after my burnout also had a narc which i had to work with everyday. obviously im not diagnosing them, so these are not facts but a lot of them have tendencies at least. i get triggered by those tendencies and that's why i notice it very often.
There are people waking up to this, but there are also people trying to bury it. Narcissistic abuse absolutely exists and healing from it is a long and painful journey, but it is absolutely worth it. Thank you for staying committed to educating people about this issue, Dr. Ramani!
In my former so-called marriage, red flags were batting me over the head. So, I met up with his ex-wife because I heard horrible stories about her but the stories had changed each time he shared them, which he loved to do with everyone. I have a keen memory. They share two kids together so she was part of the package when we married and I found her to be really nice. Eventually I asked her to coffee because things didn’t add up and I had questions and she was concerned why I was staying at my folks house the last few days. She told me how he beat her so badly that she was hospitalized and he was arrested months after they were married, their child was a newborn at the time of the violent assault. I looked it up and it was on record! During our conversation she told me that he recently met up with his ex girlfriend, gave her money to take his daughter shopping. I knew something was off. He was giving me the silent treatment, it felt like some game and I was done playing.
I agree, that you shouldn’t warn the new person in their lives because they already been fed false stories about the you. However, it was nice that I could go to her and ask her to lift the veil from my eyes.
This was an extremely important thing to do and I cannot applaud you enough for doing it! One of the most important lessons in Lundy Bancroft's book, "Why Does He Do That?" states to always try to meet with the previous partners if you can so you can make up your own mind as to whether or not your partner is telling the truth. It's so hard to do, but so important in you can!!!
@@MelancholyRequiem I may read that book, thank you! Anytime a partner talks about how crazy all there exes are really listen. Also see what the family dynamic is with their parents and siblings.
But that’s the thing about narcissists. They can try to fool you, with all their heart, but in the end, they’re just fooling themselves.
pretty much. They will believe their own lies. Hence, the habitual lying.
🎯
But that doesn't matter to them at all.
A habitual liar doesn't change
Well said!
Dr. Ramani is a gift to the Universe. If she yells in a hotel room you can bet she is justified!
The psychiatric world says there's only 1% of the population that are narcissists. I believe that number is heavily skewed. It's old data that needs to be updated. Narcissism is running rampant in today's society. If it wasn't for amazing people like Dr. Ramani, I think I would have lost my mind already. I unfortunately have had several very abusive narcissists in my life. As if one wasn't enough.
More a gift from the universe to us.
I left my ex on Mother's Day in 1993. I didn't have this, and going to a therapist was a very slow process. I didn't get the Reader's Digest Condensed version of this, nor know that there are tens of thousands of people going through the same exact thing. Only this year, did I find out.
I used to read the ethics column in the NYT. I had to stop reading it and the comments after one too many times of frustration with commenters who have never experienced narcissistic abuse. One too many times reading an account of obvious narcissistic behavior and seeing people respond "you should forgive them. That's your dad, mother, sister, brother, etc." It was triggering.
I was a subscriber for years, but I did have to cancel recently for the same basic reason; so many of the Opinion articles were just blatant victim-blaming and victim-shaming.
We need better and mandatory education for professionals in law and social services on narcissism, trauma bond etc. The victims so often have to fight jet another uphill battle, it's insane. Thank you so much!
In academia, as well. It is insane to me how many psychiatrists in my medical school had no clue about it. It should be taught in medical school and psychology.
@@missdm8137oh my God that should be studied in so much deaths depth!!! 😮😢😢
@@missdm8137-I never learned about this. I took psychology in college, and I loved it, but they never told us about this… because Narcissists cannot be cured with talk therapy or drug therapy
So they’re even more dangerous because nobody’s talking about it in psychology classes in college
Which means that nobody you go to for help has learned anything about this
To them both people usually look narcissistic, because they’re saying the same things … because the narcissist, of course, is mirroring you
Plus, they love to play the victim
Geez I thought they would cover this in psychology classes. What the heck do they teach?
My narc ex cheated because our new baby was taking the attention away from him and he “didn’t like being a parent”.
Sounds like you ducked a bullet early on with that clown.
He cheated because he’s a cheater, simple. Also you might found this one out when you had a baby, it wasn’t his first time I’m pretty sure.
Yeah and then that's what they spin as them being so hurt and suffering for so long unhappy in the marriage. I'm so sorry. 😢😢
They’ll make any excuse.. his excuse is true. He DID cheat for that reason. He would’ve also cheated if you left him alone when he wanted company. Or if you watched your tv show instead of his. Or if you forgot to order his favorite dessert from that restaurant you frequent. All narcissists cheat. And the reasoning will always be your fault or something that has nothing to do with them. Even though it has EVERYTHING to do with their excessive need for attention, admiration, and control. They use sex to control. It’s one of the best ways to control a supply.
Anyway, I hope you’re on your journey to healing!! 🎉🙌🏾💗
My uncle was this way. My aunt put up with him for 50+ years and multiple illegitimate children until she had enough when she was in her 60’s. She’s 80 now and married to a wonderful man who she met once she put my awful uncle behind her.
I have read self help books since my late teens. Remember “I’m Okay, You’re Okay”?. I am in my late sixties. I had recently told a dear friend I’m done trying to fix myself. Not done learning and growing, but accepting of myself as the imperfect human that I am. Then I looked up narcissism. It explained SO MANY things. So I just pre-ordered your book. Thank you for your videos.
"Remember “I’m Okay, You’re Okay”?"
One of the first and still one of the best.
I also read self-help books for years..👍
Your senario of how it should be handled, is exactly how I tried to handle it. I focused on my relationship with my children. Taking them to the zoo. museums, plays, concerts, movies, parks, etc. Taught them my values and morals. Always encouraged whatever arts, music, & other activites interested them. I shared joint custody and had very little conact with him. After 15 yrs., she left him for cheating on her. Our kids were grown and I helped them get out on their own. They recently assured me that my being there for them always, was the only sane part of their lives. They no longer choose to see him.
This very thing happened to me when I went to a divorce attorney. He blamed me to my face that I was the cause when in fact it was a boldface lie. As my husband sat in jail for abuse, I couldn't believe this attorney "turned evil" on me.
Hope you fired him forthwith.
Welcome to our modern legal system. It does not care who is right or who is wrong. All that matters is who it decides is going to win at the beginning.
They can bring nothing and then lie their asses off under oath day after day (Absolute bizzaro world level nonsense) and nothing will happen to them even when they are getting called out on it live in court, and you can bring in literal books worth and movie-length hours of videos showing them lying and worse from start to finish and none of it will matter if the system decided that they are who they want to back for whatever reason.
I went through it for 2+ years. He had nothing that worked in his favor (supported me massively in proving my points though) and both sides knew it. My side brought in an overwhelming amount of evidence against him and in the end, the judge simply refused to look at anything I had, due to how long it would take to review (literal days) and then sided with him citing lack of evidence on my part as the reason.
My lawyers were awesome but they flat out said that this is how our legal and law enforcement systems work now. It's no longer about evidence and fact, it's about whomever the judge or law enforcement officers decide they want to see win.
He’s most likely a cheater himself.
I hope you got rid of this attorney. And, fast!!
Report him to the bar association
My narc ex married the woman he was cheating with. As far as I am concerned she knew she was marrying a man who is willing to cheat on his wife. I feel absolutely no need to warn her.
Thank you Dr. Ramani, you have been a big help in my healing journey. I am a joyful and more authentic self and continue to work on healing.
Completely agree! Reminds me of a fable where a man was crossing a bridge and a talking snake (poisonous) pleaded with the traveler to pick him up and carry him because he was tired and feeling sick. The weary traveler finally decided to pick him up and carry him. When he got him across the bridge to the destination, the snake bit him. The traveler was shocked, and said, “But I saved you, how could you do that?” The snake responded, “You knew what I was when you picked me up”. I feel any woman who openly gets into a relationship with a man who is cheating should not be surprised when they later cheat on them. They knew what he was when they started out.
My son warned my ex’s girlfriend once. He said “he’s not a good man, you should move on.” She heard him, but didn’t. Of course she ended up breaking up with him. I found out he was going to ask her to marry him on HIS birthday. This is a narcissist I was married to for 20 years, and three kids. Every female that he connects to, leaves him within months or less. While I can’t warn them, it seems like they learn soon enough. He wasn’t much of a cheater, but he was rotten every way else.
It’s amazing how much better life gets when you leave these people behind. Hope you are doing amazing, and blessings 💖✨
(Edited for grammar and clarity)
I experienced the same thing. My ex is now 64 years old and married to the woman he last cheated on me with. Do they ever get too old to cheat?
I mostly don't feel sorry for her because he more than likely lied on you too her to make her feel like the winner. It's actually sad. But congrats on losing the weight!!
“The world doesn’t “get” this. Don’t let them gaslight you about it.” It’s so crazy-making. Thank you Doctor 💖
Thank-you so much for your work in these videos! I left a narcissist spouse in October 2001 after 16 years of her drama and gas-lighting. I wish I could have seen your videos back in the 1990's! With very few exceptions, the overwhelming response was summed up by my mother: "You were married to her 15 years longer than we thought you would be!" Friends finally came up to me and told me stories they knew about her that they were afraid to bring to me for fear of losing me as a friend. When divorcing a narcissist, you will find out who your true friends are. I was fortunate to have many friends and a great deal of support. It took me a whole year to work up the courage and to make sure I was doing the right thing by leaving but I have been happy almost every day since walking out. I literally walked out with nothing but an overnight bag. I couldn't take anymore. Nothing I left in the house we owned together was worth another day with her.
When involved with a narcissist, you're technically single because your heart is taken by someone you can never have.
Or a child alone in a family.
Yes. You are married to a fake, a fictional character.
Brilliant
...."
So true
The lawyer sounds like a cheater themselves because who truly could defend cheating for ANY reason. Thank you for feeling rage like us regular folks. You’ve always shined a light on what is really happening when it comes to the games narcissist play.
That was my first thought. Projection anyone?
This is something I have never understood. How can a person make a defense for cheating on a spouse? There is no defense for it. None. The message I got when my ex cheated on me seemed to be the same message I've gotten all my life: it was my fault she betrayed me.
Thinking this too
ENABLER/CHEATER
@@E.P.Greene What a coincidence. It was my fault my X cheated on me!
Thank you for this video. I work in domestic abuse and only discovered through my job, how many people supporting victims of abuse (e.g. solicitors, social workers of children) don't understand the dynamics played out in domestic abuse. It's frustrating as hell. They make so many decisions so often where me and my colleagues are head-in-hands shaking our heads. Sometimes they put the victim at risk by disclosing information to the abusive person, or keep children with a dangerous and neglectful parent.
Like you say, it looks like it's with the assumption that they're dealing with two rational people, who are trying their best to find a solution. Or a "bad break up".
Or it'll be described that the abusive parent who neglects the kids "doesn't understand what's expecting of them in regards to meeting the children's needs" and I'm sitting there like "of course they f*cking understand, they just don't f*cking CARE!! They have capacity. They read English. They just don't want to do it!!" It's heartbreaking what ignorance victims of abuse come up against when trying to protect themselves and the most precious beings in their life - their children.
I'm glad you've touched on it in this video. And I thinks it's good what you said about feeling it out with different legal people, to see if they understand the imbalanced power dynamic of an abusive relationship.
Feels like ...aweful
Thank you from someone who's used their local WA. I honestly don't think I'd have been able to leave my ex without their help and education
Dr. Ramani, I am a native Californian (born in 1950). My wife (who is also a native Californian), and I departed the People's Republic of what became "Narcissfornia", in 2010 and have never looked back. We now happily live in rural Virginia. Thank you for your instruction and assistance in dealing with narcissists in our life.
Seriously your comment just highlights you are both narcissistic and now live in rural Virginia. I am sure rural Virginia now who you are.
@@darcie1962
Well, yes. We tell them that we are from SoCal. The Good Folk here in Albemarle County don't appear to have a problem with us. Or, if they do have problems, they haven't mentioned it to us. We moved to Northern Virginia (NoVa) in 2009. January of 2014 marks the start of our 15th year in Virginia.
You are a gift to us all Dr. Ramani! Knowledge, truth, sanity.
She really is amazing 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
She has changed my life with her knowledge of the how and why of narcissist cruelty and motivations. Years of escalating unkindness and manipulation have been put into perspective. Feeling guilty and confused have diminished as i have realized that my fifty year old daughter will never change no matter what I say or do even though it hurts.
Dr. Ramani is a lifesaver.
Yes - exactly; sanity. Feels so good to get this clear, sane and direct words from this woman. Calling the bullshit.
*Your snarkiness is healing, Dr. Ramani!* 😄❤ I took a conflict resolution class and someone tried the old "every conflict has two contributors" line after I described a betrayal that was truly selfish and one-sided. It was like a mini graduation day that I was able to calmly say No, actually in this case it really was entirely the other person's fault. AND I didn't ruminate or gaslight myself later. Huzzah! 🎓
yes! ❤
Go you! I'm so trying to get to this point.
When my parents were getting a divorce we children got some counseling ourselves. I told them how I was feeling and I HATED it when the counselor dismissed what I said because 'everyone has their own truth to what happened'
Such bs, people might have their own truth, but there is also THE truth
@@karinisvetcool What you just said is truth! : - ) I'm sorry you had such an invalidating counselor at such a tough time. : - ( One truth I've learned the hard way is that there are a lot of counselors out there with poor self-insight who project their own issues and biases inappropriately.
@@orielwiggins2225 Aw, thanks! : - ) I still have to battle internalized gaslighting in other situations, but that experience was a turning point in my healing because it was so clear the other person was 100% at fault. It make me realize I'd been brainwashed that I'm not ALLOWED/qualified to validate my own feelings, reality, or worth, and I was so disgusted by that it lit a fire in me to validate the heck out of myself! ; - D
Wishing godspeed to you and all of us on this healing journey! ❤
That attorney is so full of bravo sierra. I’m going through a divorce from a narcissistic cheater and for anyone to even imply I had something to do with it is upsetting. I tried EVERYTHING I could even to the point it not only affected my mental health but physical health.
This is exactly the reason I haven’t gotten a divorce…and I never even realized it. The physiological trauma that comes with trying to hold my truth and reality with what he needs me to believe is reality is literally a mind f*%# to the highest power. And having to make yourself hold it for the sake of peace in the house and for my kids is…willing having to accept and participate in insanity to survive. Then there’s the part where he can’t even admit to things I was there for…I’m trying no contact-my anxiety is extreme at times throughout the day waiting for what’s coming next and believing I really have nothing to go on and I don’t even know what to say. Thinking about explaining our life and situation makes my body shake because I can already feel the minimization coming and I can’t afford to get any smaller.
This is exactly what my narcissistic ex-husband would tell me every time he cheated. It was my fault because I caused him so much stress, I didn't appreciate him, I didn't listen to him and blah blah blah. It never occurred to him that his stress was caused by the fact that he was trying to get away with something. I bought it for the first affair, twisted myself into a pretzel trying to please him. Finally got into recovery for co-dependency and was able to leave him.
I was grey-rocking my ex husband not even knowing what it was,I was just so tired of his BS and couldn't listen same fairy tales any more...doing things I like and ignoring him. He turned into a monster, angry and frustrated, in lack of supply. So sad human being 😢
@@Olivera81yes same!! I didn’t know what it was either and now I know. I felt so depleted I just started being silent. He was so sickening!!
@@Olivera81He blamed me for his lack of supply even though he had no interest in building any actual love between us. It was my fault that he didn’t have anybody to cheat on me with. If he started being nice all of the sudden it was a sure fire way to know he had found a new supply.
I love Dr. Ramani's sarcasm here! After spending most of my 67 years recovering from being raised by a malignant narcissist mother who cheated, got pregnant with her boyfriend when I was a year old, and dragged me through two more of her 5 marriages before escaping to build my own life. People who think they are experts and advised me to make peace with and rebuild my relationship with my mother have constantly been a part of my life that has challenged me. Thank goodness I didn't marry a narcissist and have to deal with this too!
Congrats on your pick. Best wishes going forward!
5?
@@MiteshDamania , thank you!
@@hahag-zw6qn , yes she has been married 5 times. She's 88 and 1 of her 5 offspring are currently in contact with her. I'm not one of them.
Your mom sounds just like mine. I am also 67. My mom was married four times. She's passed away now. I cut off contact with her when I was just a teenager. I never saw her again. It always made me cringe when people would tell me I should reconnect with my mom. There is no mending a relationship with a narcissist.
It’s still the hardest part of the most narcissistic relationship I’ve ever been here, is her unwavering commitment towards defending herself no matter how clearly she was and it is in the wrong.
😮my mother does that too much, but she calls herself an empath 😢 she says her dad was a narcissist 😞
I'm an LMFT in upstate NY and I've encountered three law guardians who were as harmful as the one mentioned here. I've experienced a very strong anti-father bias here even when in the cases mentioned, it was the father who was by far the more stable and emotionally healthy and accessible parent. The law guardians in those cases ruined those families by believing the narcissistic mums who successfully alienated the better parent. It made me sick. Thank you for this video.
I guess a lawyer who defends both cheating spouses and non cheating doesn’t want to alienate the cheaters from being a potential client.
Bingo.
But they don't have to do it in a way that is damaging to the victim of abuse or the children of the mess created by a problematic serial cheater. 😊
Then just don't comment, this lawyer put themselves out to be kicked. Plus, I said in a main reply that this ex-wife wasn't trying to keep changing the dynamic and make things better so the comment was off base to the situation.
They probably want to cater to the spouse that has control of the most money. @@orielwiggins2225
Nailed it.
A lawyer friend told me a story of one of his friends (a woman) who was married to a cheating irresponsible husband. His friend eventually got physically sick to the point that she was dying. She wanted a divorce and contacted him. My friend proudly told me how he mediated them that they went back together. Not long after, his friend died.
Looking at the horror in my face, he probably realized that I didn't think keeping them together was a good idea. He then tried to defend his stand, explaining how it was best, and how at least his friend had somebody by herself when she died. After all she was already dying. I was too tired to have an argument, so I just said that if I'd had a husband like that, I'd rather have been alone when I died instead of having a monster standing right next to me.
I understand completely. I get so ill because it's happened to me. I rage and cry privately the unfairness of it all. The narcissist who is the actual perpetrator acts victim, while the actual victim is framed at the perp. The true victim (of betrayal, abuse, exploitation) gets hate, blame, judgement while the narcissist gets all the sympathy, empathy, kindness, is completely innocent, blameless etc. The entire world is absolutely fucked up in this way. It's everywhere you look. Welcome to the mirror world.
I also find, at 75 years old, that people pride themselves on their book learning today and brandish their degrees while exhibiting very little common sense and ability to look into the other person's eyes. I began to notice this trend in the late 80s with job interviews changing from looking you squarely in the eye and making an evaluation on the spot to cringingly clinging to psychological and personality tests which, frankly, revealed more about the interviewer and/or company than the interviewee. I always had the feeling that the interviewer was using these questions like a Rorschach test because they didn't possess the strength of character to intuit or discern a person's real intent or MO, and they hid their weakness behind such tests or HR questionnaires.
I blame HR consultancy firms. Job hunting now is so demoralising, time consuming and hard to find out any information on the position advertised.
Trauma survivors have a particularly hard time differentiating, even if the partner isn't a narcissist. My wife almost cheated and then told me, and we started couples' therapy. I was going over repeatedly in my mind "What did I do? Maybe if I change this... or this." It still took me a good two weeks to admit to myself, and tell her, "this wasn't my fault, and I didn't deserve this" She was glad I told her.
My mediation lady for divorce actually allowed and even egged on my ex-husband’s claims that I have a written diagnoses of borderline personality disorder. And actually no one showed me this supposed evidence they had. And she actually had the audacity to ask me if I’m on medicine for this issue. I asked and actually begged to see this diagnosis that no one could produce. And in the end I looked like the unhinged fool because I was clearly upset being accused of having a mental disorder.
I told them I have a diagnosis of CPTSD but not what they accuse me of.
I told her I don’t take any medication for any mental disorder. And she said, “sometimes that’s not a good thing. Sometimes medicine helps.”
I couldn’t win for losing. Seriously it was horrible.
That’s how they are. Glad to get rid of both of them…
It's not you and they're so good at turning it all on you. I have the same problem and it continues on and on. You have to find a place of
peace and not let anyone into that place. Be mindful and cautious of everyone and anyone who wants to be your friend. I'll bet the
"mediation lady" is a narcissist herself. She doesn't have the ability to see what's going on. Don't bring up CPTSD again, DO NOT, it won't
work in your favor. These people are really good making you think you're crazy.
No one should be diagnosing you except for mental health professionals. Trying to convince you that you are sick without an official diagnoses is evil.
Been there! I am so sorry this happened to you!
what fails me is how any kind of mental illness has anything to do with anything in this scenario. but what fails me even more is how a so-called mediator could be so daft and unethical. i'm so sorry you had to put up with such bs.
Dr. Ramani, you are a voice of sanity, reason and just plain commonsense. THANK YOU! Please keep speaking out and up! Narcissism(sp?) isn't just found in people. It's rears its ugly head in businesses, organizations, and supposedly "safe" support groups. I am a 76 yrs old woman and I have experienced narcissisim(?), gaslighting and abuse of all kinds appear in the least expected areas. Keep on educating us!
A few years ago, as I was considering separating from my husband, several people close to me were concerned about what his family would do rather than what my husband would do. Thankfully it worked out and, after going low/no contact with my in-laws, things are stable. They had shown who they truly were upon the divorce of their parents and one sister and it wasn't pretty. I am glad to have removed myself, largely, from the toxicity.
I'm thinking I will have to rent my place and move due to a whole family of narcissicists who live in this building. There is simply no reason for their behaviour, they are all just very toxic. No consideration of other owners legal rights, the body corporate law, council law, and are aggressive and abusive. Needless to say they have zero friends and most are not working. One only lasted in a job a week. Guess they realised what they are dealing with. They have no concept that their issues are actually caused by themselves.
Thank you for this, it was SO validating. My ex husband was emotionally and verbally abusive for years, grossly selfish, and a cheater who ultimately justified his infidelity as follows: “I was so sad and lonely because you made me feel unloved, not enough hugs/sex/praise.” Foolishly I bought his lies, threw myself all over him to prove that I loved him, and guess what: HE KEPT SCREWING AROUND.
Came for the title, stayed for the message ❤
having lived a similar scenario I agree 100% … don’t write the letter. I never did and I’m glad. She’ll never understand and any good intentions will not matter. LivingWell is the best revenge for sure.!!! And, YES A+++++ about that comment!❤
The situation described by the letter writer was exactly like my marriage and divorce, except it never occurred to me to warn her because she knew he was cheating on me just as she was cheating on her husband. Healing came to me the day I woke up and realized how lucky I was to be out of a horrible situation. The other woman gave me a chance at a better life by taking my narcissistic spouse away. My life is good, and 20 years later, she is still stuck with an aging, sickly, abusive narcissist.
Bothsiderism isn't just dangerous in politics. I had experience with it on the job. The narcissist makes accusations to the boss that YOU did something horrible. Of course, its been carefully fabricated. The boss says, in a meeting to resolve the fake accusation, says that both are at fault. You can't defend yourself because you didn't even know this was a thing. Then, YOU are unaware. So many situations where this happens. Same song...different tune.
Sadly, you are spot on, as it appears that corporations love to promote narcissists to the highest levels in the organization. Often narcissists are the ones who will step on everyone to get ahead, which means trying to get information out of co-workers, bad-mouthing the boss. Why? So they can run back and tell it, and then move up in ranks for brown-nosing. Once they get promoted, then they find others to do the work for them, because they really aren’t that intelligent, but just sneaky and conniving. I am starting to think many corporations are narcissistic, by design. I wish for no more narcissists, never again.
That happens even when it’s not a narcissist. The average manager is an idiot
When one side is acting out of pure evil there is not 2 sided to the story. My narc loves to say there’s 2 sides to the story to try to cover up his evil behaviors.
That's right. They are trying to take from you. That is whole game. If they can convince you, or others who have power over the narrative, that you are equally at fault when it is not true, that opens them up to be able to take more from you and then blame you for it. It's pretty nasty game.@@ThimbleFox350
Dr. Ramani has helped me more than she will ever know. ❤
Am with you. I never heard of the term narc, now I am healing slowly but surely ❤. Thank you Dr. Ramani
Me too!
@@guidinglightorphansinc.5255 It's a bitter pill to swallow when you discover you were manipulated by those who you thought loved you. Stay strong 💪🏼
❤️
@@donttreadonme2 It seems the good Doctor has helped us all on her Channel. Now it is time to help ourselves. ❤️
Me 2, better watch world n say people this,people that like ramini. Shes my idol. I wanna embody her, she is a goddess.
Thank you Dr Ramani for what you do!
Thank you for calling this out Dr.!!!
I agree with you 100%.
The lawyer threw me under the bus after paying them for 5 years. I never got to trial 😢
As a child therapist, I've been through a few of these CFI interviews (child family investigators). I have told what I've observed, what I know, my professional opinion, yet EVERY TIME the CFI comes back with a vanilla report going right down the middle between the couple. We're talking about documented child molestation, neglect of a severely autistic girl, one parent being obviously mentally ill and self-absorbed, drug addicted parents, etc. Every time it's 50/50 custody! These investigations cost the families thousands of dollars, and are a COMPLETE waste of money. Meanwhile, I've had CFI's write my name in the report and quote word for word what I told them in confidence, resulting in me being threatened by the dysfunctional parent. Your California "advocate" must be part of some sadistic club that gets off on bilking parents for money while they ruin children's lives.
It's like the teacher who gives everyone a "B" on their homework. 50/50 means nobody has a right to get mad at you... so you can go on being a total unethical slacker at your job.
So very sad🥲
Give me names of these investors and the corporate entities they operate from. I'm going to write the attorney general.
Do you mind saying what state you're in?
I tried for a minute to make my ex understand why cheating was so inappropriate and hurtful and why I finally left him. He apologized profusely, but by this time I was such a pro at seeing through his narc behavior, I stopped. I blocked his number after being with him for almost 15 years. The secret to my success is watching your videos every day because they are a reminder that these crazys have no cure and any attempt at fixing them is a pitiful exercise in futility. Thank God for people like you, Dr Ramani.🙏 You are changing the world! I mean it! Love you❤
Good for you!! I know that was tough after being together for so long. But remembering the hurt and pain he caused made it not so tough I’m sure. Keep trudging along! No contact DOES get better!
@@chanel82593 Thank you. I can see how it gets better and better, but I need to stay mindful because any little doubt could be the kiss of death 😀. Thanks for writing!
As you said, "a pitiful exercise in futility" is correct. I have let my guard down a thousand times in the futile hope that I was getting through to him. Ha! What a joke. I can't believe I've been falling for it for decades. God help me out of this mess soon.
@@Vic-Meow take great care and plan your escape! Warmest regards for a successful plan coming to fruition. These people really are living in a different reality. So sad 😧
I am glad I listened to you, I always felt that a third person could not come between two people and so it was somehow a lack or something in the relationship. I am glad you set me straight because I had one relationship with a narcissist that just about destroyed me. Thanks
You are so right! My best friend’s daughter was involved in a narcissist relationship. When they ‘legally separated’ the custody issues were the worst as ‘he’ convinced the legal system what a great dad he was. It took much heartache and documentation of bruises, neglect (leaving a preschool child for up to 6 hours by herself, failure to bathe feed etc) to convince the court that what he said couldn’t be relied upon.
I love the NYT's comment section for this reason. Recently, an ethics article about a husband lying to his hardworking hospital doctor wife for many years about his financial situation. While working her ass off, paying the mortgage, he never told her he was very wealthy, thanks to a hidden family fund. He went for years and years every morning "to work," only to go to a spa, a cafe, or whatever felt right for him, for instance, a golf club. Meanwhile, she sometimes worked double lifts, as expected from a hospital doctor. After so many years, he wonders if she should finally learn how rich he and her life is. So, how were the comments? Same tone, same sentiment as here. At least a few commentators pointed out that if he is lying to her, pretending to have a second life for so long, if he has the means for it, he probably had too many affairs, escorts, and whatnot, right? And that he must be greedy, afraid of telling her how good their life is because she would likely divorce him as soon as she found out that their marriage is a big lie and that he let her work so hard for so many years. But the overall NYT user comments were... frankly, hilarious. Defending him. Congratulating him. Yet, all of it did sound, to me, like a story of a wealthy narcissist who has been controlling his poor wife for ages.
I think it’s a good example of how misogynistic Americans are.
😢oh my gosh!
🥺🤯 Narcissism is alive and well, unfortunately.
wow that is a nightmare scenario you laid out ❤ I hope this person is okay
It doesn't surprise me. NYT promotes transphobia and silences their staff for being "unloyal" and "trying to ruin their image" when the staff point out this flaw.
You nailed it!!!! I was appalled upon hearing that story.
Thank you for bringing this out to us that are victims of a narcissist!!!!
Do you tell them? No point, they won't listen I know.
Take the story and reverse victim and offender role to see it in a different light. This same story works for the cheater being the victim of narcissistic abuse. See my comment that explains further.
I absolutely wish that I had heard of you when I was leaving and divorcing my x husband whom is very narcissistic! The whole court system is narcissistic which makes it almost impossible for someone to deal with this in a healthy way.
Thanks for articulating this feeling of frustration so well! I heard something similar to this at my brother's wedding about both people being responsible and that marriages fall apart because BOTH parties dropped the ball. I instantly lost all respect for the person giving the speech because my dad cheated on my mom who, at the time, had her hands full with three kids. It's such a cheap way to avoid taking any responsibility. Anyway, my dad's on his fourth official wife now and even she thinks he's crazy.
You nailed this one. Thank you Dr Ramani.
In my case I was replaced for a younger woman. 15 yrs ago. I have finally healed to a lovely life with a new caring man❤️
My children dont see their father unless he invites. They still dont know what is wrong, but my daughter said: “I wish dad would work on himself like you did!”
Children are very wise.
My attorney knew. She saw through him and followed the rules in my country back then. Long before I understood.
I wish you all the best of healing💫
Thank you so much for commenting about your positive life post-betrayal! Stories like yours are like a healing balm for all the hurt and unfairness. : - ) ❤❤
❤️
Nice to read you found a caring man after such experience. All the best!
❤️
Dr. Ramani...you are brilliant and a riot!
Wise wise lady Ramini❤ not because you are a psychotherapist, but because you invest your empathie and human experience in your professional experience. God bless you 🙏❤love and respects from Beirut 🇱🇧🇱🇧🇱🇧
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Dr. Ramani!! You really understand how these lawyers or even court officials who have the power to make decisions regarding divorce outcomes regarding finances or children can really abuse their power. You really get it!!!
Yes, they do! The ‘destructive narcissist ‘ in my life (a sibling) is famous for graciously ‘forgiving’ you for all the wrongs she has done to you... she’s on my no contact list now...
The counselor I saw during my divorce turned out to be a cheater himself. I figured it out after multiple sympathetic comments about my narcissistic cheating ex. It really made things harder and the reality was that he made my trauma about himself and his ego.
🫨😵💫 my God… And therefore making trauma more…. I hope you’ve been able to to carefully look for a new therapist you must listen to them and know when to dump them and run my heart goes out to you
The counselor is a hillarious hypocrite joke...
@@erflingnot Praise His Holy Name.
I've been TWO days in a new job and have been given 'kind warnings' about an 'evil' person in the group. My God, the simmering resentments, perceived slights, inflated egos. So far my strategy is to say "Good to know" "thanks for telling me".
Oftentimes it's best to just let things play out in the mess of people's own creation while being like Switzerland- stay neutral and prioritise protecting yourself :)
This reads like you're assuming that MULTIPLE people warning you are all incorrect, oversensitive, and egotistical rather than possibly *right* and driven half-mad by an actually evil person's toxicity. Instead of blaming them, I'd be mentally THANKING them and making my plan to get the F out. I once warned the new admin for a narc boss who destroyed a once well-functioning and harmonious organization that I'd seen people think they could handle her then wind up changed for the worse. She chose to stay despite having another (less prestigious) job offer, *relished* her eventual power as favored right-hand man and snitch, then had the gall to come to me after the narc boss was finally fired humiliatingly and escorted out by security to tell me I'd been right in my warning and try to rehabilitate her reputation.
People's reputations, health, hard-won careers, job prospects, finances, children's tuition and insurance, etc. were willfully and sometimes GLEEFULLY damaged by her scumbag overlord, yet she wanted me to retroactively absolve her for colluding in all that harm. No, thanks!
In any toxic system there are victims, bystanders, collaborators, and resisters. True victims may not have a choice, but anyone who thinks staying neutral is a morally neutral choice in the presence of toxic behavior is kidding themselves.
That's what I would do at work. Eventually, I watched as I became the "evil" person because... wait for it, I didn't get involved with office politics. Yep, that same person who tried to "warn" me ended up targeting me. Apparently I was "cold" and "stuck up." As a woman, I learned the hard way to keep my distance in work environments. All a woman has to do in a work environment is be seen having lunch with a man more than once for office gossips to spread rumours that she "f*cked her way to the top."
So, are the warnings coming from the narcissists ?
Or are victims warning you as to who the narcissist is ?
Time will Definitely tell.
Either way, be grateful to the bad guys who ALWAYS..
eventually... reveal themselves.
And realize you may be better off working anywhere but there.
However, a workplace, any workplace nowadays, w/out narcissism is becoming a unicorn 🦄
But I believe you can find a workplace w/out narcissism, so If it were me, I would go back to looking for a job.
Buckle up, you're likely in for a rough ride until then.
Don't let any of them know ANYTHING about your personal life whatsoever.
@@bellaluce7088 How is the OP to know who is telling the truth? taking chances or sides here seems overly risky.
Thank you Dr Ramani ! Yes we who have lived with it know ! I learnt the hard way so called professionals meditators Solicitors family lawyers Ect can’t comprehend this very cruel personality disorder!
Cheaters gonna cheat. No matter how good or bad the marriage was. The partner who looks elsewhere was going to cheat. Thank you for being the voice of reason. 💝
🤯🤯
My back then best friend said the same to me when I was abused and discarded. I cut her out of my life too. Enablers can be as damaging as narcissists themselves.
Thank you very much again for another great video, Dr. Ramani!
I had a therapist who did this to me regarding a toxic work place environment heavy ladden with narcissist bosses. The therapist even stated that there was definite narcissistic abuse done to me and down right toxic workplace environment. But, then told me it was my fault because I need to have better boundaries. Ummmm..... narcissists never adhere to boundaries! Boundaries with bosses, where I have no power or authority, who have a history of destroying people and a large organization that is historically systemic dysfunctional. The reputation was so much so, that where I got my doctoral degree (two states over) from, knew of how toxic the organization was. Needless to say, I became the frog in the pot of boiling water. Didn't get out in time and got severely burned.
Anyway, my main point.... even therapists can victim blame. I dropped that therapist immediately.
Have boundaries with a narcissist...🤦 There is no such thing, just get the f*** out!
The false idea that you will change things or that they will ever change (esp with entire systems) is you need to just (do this or that) and if you didn't it is your fault .... is so damaging. 🤬
Boy, I wish you had been my therapist when I was getting a divorce, and it’s true that a narcissistic spouse does seek novelty, and the more shock factor and gaslighting they can serve up with their betrayals, the happier it makes them. Mediation from my experience, is just another way to shell out more money and these judges who tell you to work it out between yourselves instead of reading your file, need replaced. Thank you Doctor, first time in decades I heard from somebody else the same thing I had been thinking.
I'm internally (because it's almost 2am here in Australia now) screaming with you Dr. Ramani! Your videos helped me heal from a long and traumatic divorce with my narc ex husband 4 years ago. I have 70pages worth of evidence of how much "sorrow" and "frustration" he felt where according to thisss family lawyer in California, justified him enough to cheat and have a secret family for half our marriage, 5 years. To think there ARE many more family lawyers and mediators out there with this kind of skewed mindset and perspective when they honestly do not know the TRUTH of the real matter in these types of scenarios and the games narcs play during a divorce showdown is actually very scary and dangerous. Thank you Dr. Ramani for being the VOICE for us narc survivors and warriors and for calling bs out.
You have to realize that there are narcissistic lawyers so they will side with the narcissist. Be prepared to meet unpleasant people all your life and leave as soon as you perceive that they are not nice people. I have been told by more than one person that “everyone is basically good” while watching the news and crime reports that confirm that there are rapists and murderers out there, criminal organizations, terrorists groups as well as arsonists and looters. Something is not quite right with these people who pretend that there is nothing to worry about from other people.
Totally agree! My former husband was a serial cheater. I did tell my grown children what my private investigator found out and gave them my own eye witness account. This explained to them why I was divorcing their dad.
They were behind me 100%.
I wrnt through 3 attorneys before I found one who could understand what I wanted
I was a "stepford" wife.
He just left because I had become accustomed to living life alone, and he felt ignored, unwanted
Love your stuff, Dr. Ramani!
Yes, you are absolutely correct. I’ve been through it years ago. I’m fine now after finding my true love who brought me my life back. He helped me fine my self esteem and self worth. Sadly 2 of my 3 grown children have no communication with me without explanation. I still send cards to my grandchildren and them, so they know I will always love them. That’s all that I can do. And pray.
💥🔥🔥🔥🔥 🤬I feel like my head is on fire too after hearing this report. Again and again people and self-acclaimed professionals in our society blame the victim without even knowing the history and the people involved because 1. It's easy, 2. They don't know how to fight the bully 3. They try to be "politically correct", although phony, to say "I need to hear both side of the story first". This is what we are dealing with right now. Thank you Dr Ramani for bringing this up.
I’ve been to a lot of therapists, both throughout my marriage and since, none have mentioned the word narcissist. I think the majority just don’t know. I found out what it was by accident surfing the net, and then went down the rabbit hole, this was a yr out of my marriage. Realised my parents and ex were narcs and I attract them. When we did marriage counselling, they sided with him, I was so mixed up and gaslit that I couldn’t explain myself. Glad to be free and still working on myself.
Oh they know. I just think many of them are narcs themselves honestly.
Me too. It is just fascinating to me how many mental professionals are not familiar with narcissist personality disorder, or some other research. At the beginning, few months after meeting NPD, I was seriously considering leaving and it was, not only the environment, but the therapist who told me a few times that I am imagining, overthinking, having "conspiracy theories" and should stop talking about it all of the time and focus on other things. I wish I saw dr Ramani's video then, but I though narcissist is just a person obsessed with himself and not dangerous so I never googled that. It took me so long to get over shaming my self how stupid I was - even though I knew NPD was bad from the first time we spoke I stayed like an idiot and thought that I am overreacting. Looking now, he had all of the classic text-book first signs of NPD and in stead of therapist validating my perception, they told me I am overdramatizing and should just continue.
Any good therapist is extremely familiar with and have interacted with narc. I worked with one therapist for 5 consecutive years after a traumatic divorce from a narc. She helped me understand I had been raised by a narc mother then married one! It took a long time to heal from the damage.
@@missdm8137 - all licensed therapists are educated about NPD. They have to be just as they have to be educated about all personality disorders and mental health diagnoses!!
😢😮❤❤❤
I am so so so happy that professionals like you shed light on what narcissists abuse truly is and now it affects others.
Before finding your videos and learning about narcissistic abuse, I believed that it was my fault…that I was not good enough for him…for the marriage.
It is amazing how these “so called” professionals have that kind of prejudgment without any empathy for the actual victims!
Dr. Ramani, thank you for doing these videos! You have no idea how much they help.
Get'em! Dr Ramani don't play always giving me that therapy and knowledge I need. thank you bc of you I have healed tremendously I took my life back giving narc injuries every time they come around me
I’ve been in situations like this one….that I call “twilight zone”….because I have a severely autistic son and have to deal with many different types of professionals and government people…it’s BAD out there!! There are soooooo many narcissists in this world nowadays and they cause so much damage when they are in “helping” professions. Before I knew what narcissism was, it was mind boggling. Now, thanks to earth angels like yourself and a few others, I’ve learned and developed the gift of discernment. I mean, just look at all the politicians nowadays. Our world is in trouble. We have an ETHICS/MORALS problem and the self regulation of these professionals is a joke….as the complaints are handled by more narcissists!! I call it spiritual warfare…..scary times 😢
Agee with this 💯
Amen.
Our country doesn’t honor God.
I Agree! I always thought politicians should be serving the people, looking at problems from all sides, gathering information, making informed decisions.Even if having differing views there should be an element of RESPECT. We are losing this element of our society. Some politicians are actively modelling/encouraging DISRESPECT. I feel for children growing up in in this world and ultimately for the future of it (the planet). Regarding the self regulation of professionals eg politicians, CEO’s etc - the system seems geared to stop that happening. Eg. See what happened to Bandy X Lee.
Thank you for screaming for all of us, Dr. Ramani.
Thank you for making these videos. You have made a difference in my life. I’ve gained valuable insight, & learned how to establish healthy boundaries.
Simply amazing !!❤
I absolutely love Dr. Ramani!! If nothing else, I know where her heart is in these difficult situations.
As a therapist who deals in family law (formerly a public paralegal before they outlawed this), in my rural area, the legal system truly is run by the good-ol'-boy system. Narcissism is absolutely thick in the court/legal system. The judge has allowed the other party in my own case to have such leniency (for not showing up in court!), that the dissolution has drug on for over 1.5 years where there is nothing to fight over (no kids, no home) and my own attorney labels the actions he sees as "passive-aggressive" but still not sure what I'm paying him for if this isn't resolving. The Sheriff's Department was instructed to ARREST the other party for contempt after not showing up so many times (mind you, days off work that I have taken where it has been loss of income, and witnesses hanging out in court hallways that I have to pay for), but reported that the Sheriff's Office was "understaffed" to arrest, so papers were served, but no court date and it still drags on. The clerk won't set a date without an arrest because that was the judge's order. So, thousands of dollars later while I await folks to get their stuff together, I'm still stalked and harassed - a lot of details being left unsaid, but include his brother's trucking company driving by my bedroom window engaging Jake Brakes or the cable cords outside the house being yanked with a 2-week re-installation wait. I often have folks come in to see me and tell me how they were "tricked" into coming to our county by the love bombing of narcissists, and as they are walking away, are impregnated or stripped of ability to have their own income and then trapped in the county (because it is the county of the child's birth or there is no economy or relatives to help step in). So, with no job, and having a narcissist as the co-parent/ex who just feeds on their struggles - it creates multiple issues for all involved, except the narcissist. This is so bad that I have a working theory that our little place (formerly known as Murderville) was founded by corrupt people (murderers, miners, infantry who crossed over the mountains in their pursuit of take-take-take), that over time, and due to isolation, this is where those behaviors fester and grow. Their abuses don't always thrive in society, but they thrive here. Children exposed to these behaviors, guess what, choose partners themselves who resemble their parent(s). I'm not surprised to hear that the NY attorney in your story has these ideas. People, from all professions or educations/backgrounds, tend to leap to judgments without having the true research - they don't bother to go there either because they don't have to - they make money by just going along with their working theories. In 2023, I often wonder why these types of educational basics aren't taught in high school, and of course the answer is to follow the dollar. You know who else has their system in the palms of their hands (& that expression is meant with all the nuances/ interpretations one might apply) - people who run school districts, people who set the curriculum standards for the states, politicians. Dr. Ramani - I don't have to tell you, but we have a problem here.
Wow, thanks for sharing your story, as it may be so helpful to others in similar situations, regarding the juvenile games being played.
Right on!
I am sympathetic to the sexist abuse culture of your town. But you wrong about one thing. Psychology isn’t a non subject at high school because of corruption. Psychology has only been invented for about 100 years, and until recently was non scientific. If you didn’t like having sex with your husband that was bad at it, they’d tell you to “embrace the penis” mentally instead of someone teaching him foreplay. That was the level of psychology until about the 1980s. It’s all new, mostly built upon original studies that don’t pass standards, etc. until they get it sorted out to less of a personal talent kind of thing, it’s not appropriate for unqualified teachers to teach it.
thank you - that was the idea :) @@azalea1043
I agree that qualified folks need to teach subject material - but also, some of the basics of communication and relationship should be taught, not how to "embrace the penis". Some folks with other types of genitals are abusive also. Basics like "take your time to see if it is a good fit" or "how to have non-violent communication" etc are perfectly non-political topics that could/should be taught in perhaps a social studies class, not necessarily a higher level course or in psychology. Also, I have recently taught in the K - 12 system (CA), and I know they don't teach any of that @@M_SC
Blaming the victims. This “family” lawyer needs to be read the riot act… omg could you imagine the harm she’s doing …. They do more harm than good…😊
There's a possibility that the commenter wasn't a real lawyer
Praise His Holy Name.
Dr. Ramani: Beautiful! Bold! Blessed! Brava!
Love the sarcastic tone Doc!😍
You are so real💯
Thank you ma'am❤️
Ugh I had a therapist tell me that I was the reason someone strayed. I am very attractive and often am treated badly by other women, and I realize now this is possibly where this therapist was coming from. This video reminded me this happened and hearing you say this has really healed me.
Best thing about getting old is that sh*t like that quits happening. I would never treat a cute young girl bad.
many women do and it has gotten me bullied out of jobs@@marycampeau9378 . This therapist was not my therapist but someone highly revered in the community who ran theater productions for survivors of abuse...so I basically was abused by an abuse survivor healing group founder and leader. I mentioned this to someone in the DV organization and they got mad at me for saying she did that to me. Well, she did that to me. Really lame.
I warned my daughters, both beautiful, that their looks alone made them targets of jealousy. Other girls want to take you out of the game and boys just want sex. Unfortunately, they did not heed much advice and experienced trauma from other girls and unfaithful boys. The older is now married to a good man but the scars of a succession of unfaithful boys and men cause her anxiety about her current relationship and that can be a harmful thing.
@@thomasmaughan4798 yup. It hurts to be beautiful…is what my mother used to say.
I hope you got another therapist. It's not clear why she said you're the PROBLEM if everyone treats you badly❗
This is narcissistic gaslighting 101. When someone says that no bad behaviour exists. Except within you. i.e. no one in the world is selfish/unreasonable etc except for you because you won't shut up.
Dr. Ramani, you're information is helping me heal. Thank you
Thank you for this CLARITY. For calling the bullshit with your clear, sane and honest words. Thank you for stepping into the arena in this way. It feels like taking a plunge into some fresh cool water and coming up into this this clear, reset and un-fucked state of being - returning to that intuitive remembering that hey - I fucking know when something is bullshit and when something isn't. You are that voice, returning us to that clarity, and thank you for that.
Spot on, Dr. Ramani...You have excellently described the serial, repeated, conniving cheater is the narcissistic betrayer! They don't stop, they just get good at hiding it.
I had a mediator just like this at my custody hearing in California years and years ago. I thought they were crazy then and I still do. Hearing your assessment of this kind of behavior is validating to my experience some years ago
❤ i’m learning everybody gets to be who they are so we can really see that truth and sometimes it’s our job to simply recognize it, slowly back away, turn, and RUN
Thank you Dr. Ramani. You are a shining beacon of hope in a world filled with narcissists. I appreciate you more than you can possibly know.
Oh Dr Ramani, this was brilliant and witty and I was cheering on all of us as the story unfolded!! Thank you! And trust that those who are healing can see these fundamentally narcissistic attitudes from miles. Trust yourselves, victim blaming can take highly sophisticated levels, but it's still detectable - nope, there's always an honest chat before you cheat. After that, it's done. 😊❤
My ex’s sudden demand for divorce after 17 years of marriage was a blow, and they have continued in the 5 years post-divorce. But the gaslighting as she settled into her new life and buying a home with her new partner felt like I was riding a merry-go-round and being punched each time around. Thanks to ongoing therapy, much work, and information from you and other professionals, I feel that I am healing and have learned that this is a much more pervasive issue than I thought.
Merry-go-round punching😂😂😂😂😂I can relate, they are children still playing and we stand there saying get off, grow up, but they laugh and give you another punch. Love this, thanks survivor friend!
Dr. Ramani, I love you so much! Thank you for telling it like it truly is. You so “get it,” and I am so thankful that you let it be known! Everything you said in this video is 100% accurate. You are a pillar of strength and valuable validation to the list of us who have endured narcissistic abuse.
That’s right Dr. Ramani, tell it like it is! I love how raw, and yet fair you are! You know how to look at the whole picture, always.
When they say that both people are to be blamed when a relationship fails, it makes me mad and very sad. When you are dealing with a narcissist, nothing you do matters: they make sure to ruin the entire thing. And, while you stay, you try harder and harder, only for them to treat you worse and worse while blaming you for the problems! My narcissistic partner, for example, tells me that I never apologize for anything while he is the only one to apologize. In a way he's right: he apologizes all the time; only that his apologies mean nothing. Even worse: he thinks he is the hero of the relationship for apologizing. It allows him to blame me even more. In the face of the things he does, apologizing, in this relationship has lost its value.