I feel like Tweek learned a lot about sephiroth versus rosa that set, it was too late but you could see something finally clicked and he was able to start consistently zoning out Luma and gaining pressure. Amazing stuff from Dabuz as always too of course!
I don't think so. Tweek beat dabuz's Rosa with sephiroth game 5 at GOML. Tweek did not really do that much better in the end as the beginning, he just caught Rosa in a bad spot, which is just the matchup.
@@AWater22 Tweek looks lost in the MU here. It's absolutely confusing how he was in disadvantage for so long and how he didn't start zoning. Retreating Fairs and Bairs are incredibly difficult for Rosa to deal with yet he barely did them. Even with the time and room he opts for Nairs. Even if Tweek beat Dabuz's Rosa in the past it sure looks like he doesn't remember the MU here and didn't use Sephiroth's best tools in the MU enough.
@@NyctNyct retreating fairs and Baird don’t help in the mu unless luma is dead. Starbits outranges all of sephiroth’s moves while coming out faster so she just clicks starbits and it beats retreating fair and bair. It doesn’t help that luma down tilt low profiles sephiroth fair and clanks with sephiroth bair. Nair is just sephiroth’s only fast move that can properly poke out luma. Dabuz just outplayed Tweek in the advantage state idk what else to say.
@AWater22 ....? Have you ever played the MU? Fairs and Bairs are key. Fairs and Bairs poke out Luma. They hit even when you shield. Nairs are far more dangerous for Seph. Staying above Rosa is dangerous. Guess what Tweek did? You wouldn't have to cause you can see it. Just watch the third stock and see what Bairs were doing to Luma. Star bits are about the same range as Seph's sword but the difference being the maximum range starbits do almost no damage as only one or two would ever connect. While after the Seph connection he can go for another hit. Everything you explained is nonsense. That's not the MU. Nair is literally what every Rosa prays a Seph would rely on. He gives up his speed and angles of attack to do so and involves jumping which Rosa deals with extremely well. If you watch how Tweek played his last stock was extremely different from the first two. He did not play the MU correctly throughout.
@@NyctNyctYes I've played this MU. Many times actually. 23:42 Dabuz should have went for LJ up tilt here instead of jab as it would have given him a punish. Even since he did go for jab he shouldn't have finished it, because it gave tweek a free chance to poke luma. Luma gets faired for this, but dabuz could have dash attacked and hit sephiroth while low profiling fair. After this, he used starbits before luma got out of end lag causing him to whiff. This is just a bad situation to be in. Tweek could have f tilted luma and killed him instead of back airing. Unfortunately dabuz misses the punish against tweek's whiffed back air. Tweek then nairs luma, and could have nair chained luma away from rosa, if he didn't mess up. 23:47 This was a free down tilt that Dabuz should have done. It would have hit tweek in this position and clanked with back air if tweek managed to land it. After, Dabuz goes for jump back side b, which trades with f-tilt. It may have been better if he just dropped shield and held stage control, because he corners himself again. 23:50 This was a pretty bad up tilt to go for because if sephiroth is hovering in a position diagonal to luma, he obviously wants to go for fair or back air. At that point you want to Dash attack cancel wavedash to position luma under sephiroth or run forward and shield to parry him. Luma gets back aired and Dabuz got stuck in disadvantage for a while which is a common thing in this matchup. 24:22 Dabuz again goes for up tilt here while tweek is is hovering diagonal to luma. Although fair whiffs, Dabuz is in too much lag to use starbits here. He may have been able to go for a down tilt but idk. Anyways, Luma ends up getting poked. Dabuz then calls luma back and plays a lot more movement base in response to tweek being really defensive which works very well. He is able to get decent damage and a short advantage state from this. 23:43 This sequence is why nair is good for sephiroth to go for. He out of shield naired luma and dabuz was not in a position to punish. Here you basically guess whether tweek either would retreat and space aerials, try to pressure Rosa, or be aggressive and go for luma. Dabuz thought tweek would retreat and use more fairs and bairs (tweek had been playing pretty defensive up until now) and tweek is able to catch rosa and luma in a bad spot with cross up nair (Rosa can't punish there and tweek can combo luma). Tweek then kills luma in a combo. Dabuz may have been able to punish him there because he used laggy moves like up air and back air, but it's very understandable why he didn't as sephiroth has huge aerials that could hit him while he tries to punish. 25:05 It's kind of unfortunate that luma got stuck on the platform here. Dabuz then retreats here hoping that tweek would try and hit him, and that he could get a luma down tilt -> rosa f smash, but tweek instead goes for luma. 25:18 oof dabuz messes up the up tilt wavedash tech. He then commits too hard to trying to punish Sephiroth and gets hit. 25:31 Dabuz got a bit greedy here. He should have shielded sephiroth nair. And I think those are all of the times in the last stock when Dabuz messed up. It wasn't a lot of times, but it was mainly just Dabuz getting caught in bad positions. Tweek did change his playstyle in between and managed to kill luma a few times, but this matchup is so polarizing that it can make a big difference. It wasn't anything like tweek figuring out the MU. Nair is really good in the matchup if your opponent knows how to play it. Sure, if you are fighting a rosa player who holds shield, tries to approach you, and runs into your sword moves, fair and bair can be amazing. but if you face a Rosa who actually knows the matchup (like dabuz) who plays very detethered to specifically counterplay sephiroth going for his sword moves, you are not going to get very far. Sephiroth has to take every opening he gets in the matchup, it's just that polarizing. He can't just slowly poke luma with fairs and bairs when he is able to. He has to land nairs, so he can chain luma to death. Otherwise, Rosa just wins off of accumulating so much damage in neutral.
That's not true. Octaslash has so much end lag that that dash forward f smash was absolutely guaranteed regardless of the extra hit lag caused by hitting Luma. What got tweek killed there was accidentally going past the ledge w/ his octaslash and landing on stage. There's no way he meant to do that. He was probably meaning to grab ledge. Actually I take it back I main Seph and I've felt for a while that hitting the opponent with octaslash gives you a tiny bit more distance. I bet Luma is the reason Tweek ended up going past ledge onto stage on accident after all. But it's not a matter of the hit lag.
Hitting the opponent does not carry Sephiroth any farther. He was going to land on the stage from that distance regardless. But also yes, either way f smash was guaranteed 😅
I think it would have been too risky, Dabuz still had his air dodge. Tweek usually goes for that if he has a stock lead or if the opponent used their air dodge already.
Diddy beats min min and loses to rosa Seph beats rosa and loses to min min It mainly comes down to who wins the blind 1st pick. Also dabuz hella outplayed that last game
@@greedo194 seph Rosa is evenish It’s probably very slightly losing like -0.5ish It’ll probably become winning for Rosa as people get better at getting around sephiroth’s advantage state, getting better at neutral, and punishing sephiroth a lot harder.
@@sass_king5576 Rosa has at most 3 -2 matchups. Sephiroth is nowhere close to that. Starbits completely shuts down sephiroth’s plan as it completely zones him out. Sephiroth’s main anti zoning tool, shadow flare, doesn’t even work on Rosa as luma just blocks it and can’t have the orbs orbit him. Luma also beats sephiroth at mid range, with down tilts low profiling fair and clanking with bair and f tilt, and up tilt stops jumps. Me thinking the matchup is even is not that crazy of an opinion. I know Rosa players who think she wins the matchup.
tweek shouldve octoslashed game 1 near the end when dabuz was offstage. he was aggressively mashing arms offstage the whole game and couldve octoslashed diagonally upwards and stole his soul.
Nah it's too telegraphed and Dabuz is good enough that he was definitely looking out for it. Not to mention the random jank that could happen and Dabuz randomly pops out of the back or something. Not a good risk
Fym the Dabuz lineup is clean g. DaMinMin goes crazy, not the most exciting but it's a good fit because he's very good at understanding space and Rosa just goes fucking crazy
Dabuz is so clean tho. You have to respect how clean he is, I also just think people are a bit silly and can't watch somewhat slow gameplay even tho most players are playing slow or careful
Bro it's a fucking game, they fulfill two different neeee. Not everyone wants to play melee. I find this whole fight is kind of pointless considering the games don't play remotely the same, I like watching both for different reasons. Melee has it's own viewing problems as well considering that game's low character diversity past top 16 and the fact that the stages are generally less interesting
I like Dabuz as a person, but his character choices are so boring and repetitive for me to watch. Rosalina, Min Min, Olimar, it's all camping and ranging out 🫤
I feel like Tweek learned a lot about sephiroth versus rosa that set, it was too late but you could see something finally clicked and he was able to start consistently zoning out Luma and gaining pressure. Amazing stuff from Dabuz as always too of course!
I don't think so. Tweek beat dabuz's Rosa with sephiroth game 5 at GOML. Tweek did not really do that much better in the end as the beginning, he just caught Rosa in a bad spot, which is just the matchup.
@@AWater22 Tweek looks lost in the MU here. It's absolutely confusing how he was in disadvantage for so long and how he didn't start zoning. Retreating Fairs and Bairs are incredibly difficult for Rosa to deal with yet he barely did them. Even with the time and room he opts for Nairs.
Even if Tweek beat Dabuz's Rosa in the past it sure looks like he doesn't remember the MU here and didn't use Sephiroth's best tools in the MU enough.
@@NyctNyct retreating fairs and Baird don’t help in the mu unless luma is dead.
Starbits outranges all of sephiroth’s moves while coming out faster so she just clicks starbits and it beats retreating fair and bair. It doesn’t help that luma down tilt low profiles sephiroth fair and clanks with sephiroth bair.
Nair is just sephiroth’s only fast move that can properly poke out luma.
Dabuz just outplayed Tweek in the advantage state idk what else to say.
@AWater22 ....? Have you ever played the MU? Fairs and Bairs are key.
Fairs and Bairs poke out Luma. They hit even when you shield. Nairs are far more dangerous for Seph. Staying above Rosa is dangerous.
Guess what Tweek did? You wouldn't have to cause you can see it. Just watch the third stock and see what Bairs were doing to Luma.
Star bits are about the same range as Seph's sword but the difference being the maximum range starbits do almost no damage as only one or two would ever connect. While after the Seph connection he can go for another hit.
Everything you explained is nonsense. That's not the MU. Nair is literally what every Rosa prays a Seph would rely on. He gives up his speed and angles of attack to do so and involves jumping which Rosa deals with extremely well.
If you watch how Tweek played his last stock was extremely different from the first two. He did not play the MU correctly throughout.
@@NyctNyctYes I've played this MU. Many times actually.
23:42 Dabuz should have went for LJ up tilt here instead of jab as it would have given him a punish. Even since he did go for jab he shouldn't have finished it, because it gave tweek a free chance to poke luma. Luma gets faired for this, but dabuz could have dash attacked and hit sephiroth while low profiling fair. After this, he used starbits before luma got out of end lag causing him to whiff. This is just a bad situation to be in. Tweek could have f tilted luma and killed him instead of back airing. Unfortunately dabuz misses the punish against tweek's whiffed back air. Tweek then nairs luma, and could have nair chained luma away from rosa, if he didn't mess up.
23:47 This was a free down tilt that Dabuz should have done. It would have hit tweek in this position and clanked with back air if tweek managed to land it. After, Dabuz goes for jump back side b, which trades with f-tilt. It may have been better if he just dropped shield and held stage control, because he corners himself again.
23:50 This was a pretty bad up tilt to go for because if sephiroth is hovering in a position diagonal to luma, he obviously wants to go for fair or back air. At that point you want to Dash attack cancel wavedash to position luma under sephiroth or run forward and shield to parry him. Luma gets back aired and Dabuz got stuck in disadvantage for a while which is a common thing in this matchup.
24:22 Dabuz again goes for up tilt here while tweek is is hovering diagonal to luma. Although fair whiffs, Dabuz is in too much lag to use starbits here. He may have been able to go for a down tilt but idk. Anyways, Luma ends up getting poked. Dabuz then calls luma back and plays a lot more movement base in response to tweek being really defensive which works very well. He is able to get decent damage and a short advantage state from this.
23:43 This sequence is why nair is good for sephiroth to go for. He out of shield naired luma and dabuz was not in a position to punish. Here you basically guess whether tweek either would retreat and space aerials, try to pressure Rosa, or be aggressive and go for luma. Dabuz thought tweek would retreat and use more fairs and bairs (tweek had been playing pretty defensive up until now) and tweek is able to catch rosa and luma in a bad spot with cross up nair (Rosa can't punish there and tweek can combo luma). Tweek then kills luma in a combo. Dabuz may have been able to punish him there because he used laggy moves like up air and back air, but it's very understandable why he didn't as sephiroth has huge aerials that could hit him while he tries to punish.
25:05 It's kind of unfortunate that luma got stuck on the platform here. Dabuz then retreats here hoping that tweek would try and hit him, and that he could get a luma down tilt -> rosa f smash, but tweek instead goes for luma.
25:18 oof dabuz messes up the up tilt wavedash tech. He then commits too hard to trying to punish Sephiroth and gets hit.
25:31 Dabuz got a bit greedy here. He should have shielded sephiroth nair.
And I think those are all of the times in the last stock when Dabuz messed up. It wasn't a lot of times, but it was mainly just Dabuz getting caught in bad positions. Tweek did change his playstyle in between and managed to kill luma a few times, but this matchup is so polarizing that it can make a big difference. It wasn't anything like tweek figuring out the MU.
Nair is really good in the matchup if your opponent knows how to play it. Sure, if you are fighting a rosa player who holds shield, tries to approach you, and runs into your sword moves, fair and bair can be amazing.
but if you face a Rosa who actually knows the matchup (like dabuz) who plays very detethered to specifically counterplay sephiroth going for his sword moves, you are not going to get very far. Sephiroth has to take every opening he gets in the matchup, it's just that polarizing. He can't just slowly poke luma with fairs and bairs when he is able to. He has to land nairs, so he can chain luma to death. Otherwise, Rosa just wins off of accumulating so much damage in neutral.
Luma extending Seperoth's hitbox allowed Dabuz just enough time for the last smash attack. Luma clutch AF.
That's not true. Octaslash has so much end lag that that dash forward f smash was absolutely guaranteed regardless of the extra hit lag caused by hitting Luma.
What got tweek killed there was accidentally going past the ledge w/ his octaslash and landing on stage. There's no way he meant to do that. He was probably meaning to grab ledge. Actually I take it back I main Seph and I've felt for a while that hitting the opponent with octaslash gives you a tiny bit more distance. I bet Luma is the reason Tweek ended up going past ledge onto stage on accident after all. But it's not a matter of the hit lag.
Nah. What the guy above said is right, luma had nothing to do there with no hit lag. 😂
Might've let him charge it a bit more, at least. Luma still took one for the team lol
@@Simbaninogamingnah it didn’t effect the end lag but it def carried him further 😊
Hitting the opponent does not carry Sephiroth any farther. He was going to land on the stage from that distance regardless. But also yes, either way f smash was guaranteed 😅
Dabuz has really been making that slow progression from Dacringe to Dapopoff
Dabuz' Rosa is amazing. I can't believe luma has more range than sephiroth
You mean a camper? Yeah he does that well
i got so triggered just watching it
Dabuz pop off time 😂
Dabuz Rosa is artwork, it feels like he’s getting closer and closer to complete mastery of that character. Seriously, put that into a museum.
Dabuz post game w/Luma: "Don't talk to me or my son ever again."
Surprised Tweek didn’t go for the octoslash off stage at the end of game 1.
I think it would have been too risky, Dabuz still had his air dodge. Tweek usually goes for that if he has a stock lead or if the opponent used their air dodge already.
20:47
You could make a whole platform fighter around the rosa/luma mechanic.
Such a quirky concept.
What version is this? 😂
@@chuck_st its a tweek joke.
version: heavy fist
Tweek looking so lost that last game started waking up on that last stock but it was too late
You guys never hold back with the ads, huh?
Dabuzキター！！！
Why wasnt tweek abusing side b to get some free hits off
Against Min Min bro can just walk away and arm. And if dabuz learns what he's doing he'll just punish him for it
The fact any character can take hits at 200% is insane. What is this game???
Brawl percents but as an intentional part of gameplay 💀
Min Min VS Sephiroth is almost as slow as two Steves 😅
Dabuz is back.
Luma and minmin = counter tweek main characters
Diddy beats min min and loses to rosa
Seph beats rosa and loses to min min
It mainly comes down to who wins the blind 1st pick. Also dabuz hella outplayed that last game
@@greedo194 seph Rosa is evenish
It’s probably very slightly losing like -0.5ish
It’ll probably become winning for Rosa as people get better at getting around sephiroth’s advantage state, getting better at neutral, and punishing sephiroth a lot harder.
@@AWater22lol seph rosa is trash, no where near even lol it’s -1 / -2 for rosa
@@sass_king5576 Rosa has at most 3 -2 matchups. Sephiroth is nowhere close to that.
Starbits completely shuts down sephiroth’s plan as it completely zones him out. Sephiroth’s main anti zoning tool, shadow flare, doesn’t even work on Rosa as luma just blocks it and can’t have the orbs orbit him.
Luma also beats sephiroth at mid range, with down tilts low profiling fair and clanking with bair and f tilt, and up tilt stops jumps.
Me thinking the matchup is even is not that crazy of an opinion. I know Rosa players who think she wins the matchup.
anyone else skip pass the min min games?
Nah I love MinMin
Was watching live so no.
I also want Dabuz to win too much to not watch the entire set live
Let’s go Dabuz!! 🎉
tweek shouldve octoslashed game 1 near the end when dabuz was offstage. he was aggressively mashing arms offstage the whole game and couldve octoslashed diagonally upwards and stole his soul.
Nah it's too telegraphed and Dabuz is good enough that he was definitely looking out for it. Not to mention the random jank that could happen and Dabuz randomly pops out of the back or something. Not a good risk
I fucking love DaMinMin
FIRST LEZZGO HYPE
First game seeing seph and minmin was the least smash gameplay of all time in terms of top players, so slow and cringe to watch
Does Dabuz main all the annoying characters?
Fym the Dabuz lineup is clean g. DaMinMin goes crazy, not the most exciting but it's a good fit because he's very good at understanding space and Rosa just goes fucking crazy
Snore fest of a character and player.
Dabuz is so clean tho. You have to respect how clean he is, I also just think people are a bit silly and can't watch somewhat slow gameplay even tho most players are playing slow or careful
ultimate is literally air-dodge the game. so sad, quit now while u have a brain and play some melee
Bro it's a fucking game, they fulfill two different neeee. Not everyone wants to play melee. I find this whole fight is kind of pointless considering the games don't play remotely the same, I like watching both for different reasons. Melee has it's own viewing problems as well considering that game's low character diversity past top 16 and the fact that the stages are generally less interesting
Nah, ultimate plays like a proper fast paced fighter. Melee is so slow and boring to watch. The two are not the same 🤦♂️
😡💢
I like Dabuz as a person, but his character choices are so boring and repetitive for me to watch. Rosalina, Min Min, Olimar, it's all camping and ranging out 🫤