In the mid '60's i had a James Sports Superswift with the Villiers 2T motor, and i loved it. It sounded just like my mates Yamaha YDS2 but that was the only thing it had in common with the Yammy. I kept it for 2 years before trading it in for a Honda. I wish i still had the James.
My first bike was a new (old-stock) 1964 Falcon 87 in 1969. Currently riding a 1960 Cruiser 80. Had a scrambler with the AMC engine and an early Falcon (field-bike)with a Villiers 197 engine. Went from Dublin to North Galway and back one summer day last year, on the Cruiser. No problems, except that the exhaust pipe nut unscrewed, a roadside fix😊
I had a 199cc AMC engined Falcon from new around 1962, practically identical that which appears at 2.05 in the video. Did some 45000 miles on a 26 mile return trip to work without any major catastrophes apart from a broken chain and the occasional puncture. Although - I'd only had it about a week when part of the wiring harness caught fire - fixed under guarantee by the local dealer. When I first had it, the engine sounded fine, no unusual noises. One of the older lads at work said "When you've had it a year or so it'll sound like a bucket of nuts and bolts". He was right - it did! One thing that seemed to break on a fairly regular basis was the return spring on the gear-change pedal. Really enjoyed the video - nice to see the old bike, or at least its doppelganger, again Thanks!
I believe by 62 Villiers we’re doing engine assembly for AMC Makes you wonder why they didn’t just use Villiers in the first place and saves a ton of cash
When he bought a VW Beetle in 1967, my father gave me his 200cc FB Falcon with single-cylinder Piatti engine. And, as I soon fund out, what a vibratory old banger it was! Although I was mad keen on motorbikes it eventually conked out and/or I just gave up on it. No wonder the British bike industry died, with embarrassingly inept efforts like that...
@@VincentComet-l8e Piatti engine is poor no doubt But a beetle Just another tin box, Classic or not I’m a biker clues in the tittle German or Korean, just a box on wheels clogging up the roads
In retrospect, what have you got against the VW Beetle - or any other car - for that matter? I only mentioned the VW because it’s what my father bought to replace that appalling FB - obviously the sensible thing to do having young children. Why so tunnel-visioned, only fixating on one form of transport? However impractical and potentially unsafe it might be. Personally, I appreciate both cars & bikes… @@bikerdood1100
Love your work, thanks for the vid and keep up the good work. In 1979 as a newly licensed 16 year old I bought by first bike - it was a 'classic' then, a 1960 FB Falcon with the 197 AMC engine. I loved it. Reasonably reliable when I wasn't swapping the head gasket for one I made of tinfoil (more compression = more speed) and running it on a Avgas as a higher octane fuel (... even more speed 😉). I recall looking behind me to see a trail of pure white smoke worthy of a jet airliner and she did indeed go faster for about a mile before the gasket failed. All good fun, and remarkably and against the odds - I lived to tell the tale.
My first bike was a James sports captain back in 1964. The only good thing about the bike was it self taught me how to rebuild engines, it spent more time being repaired than ridden. Still have a brand new sports captain brake pedal hanging on the garage wall,been hanging on various garage walls for over 50 years. As said in the video, if ridden with some mechanical sympathy the AMC engines are not too bad and a fairly cheap way into sixties classic(grey porridge) motorcycling.
I think most people’s first bike was like that My Suzuki got pushed a few times Never really like the term get porridge for these bikes I reality it’s what most people had at leat at the beginning They may all claim they owned Goldstars but somehow I doubt it Nothing wrong with a get you to work bike The Honda Cub has some how become fashionable after all
@bikerdood1100 Funny enough I did own a goldie from Sept 1967 to Sept 1969. The reg was 830 OTB, its still out there somewhere. The term grey porridge was I think coined by Onetrack when he was a regular colunmist for the magazine Sport Motorcycle back in the eighties. His description of the more mundane machines compared to the more sporty/classic big twins. One of the best looking british two stroke bikes in my opinion is the last of the villiers engined James captains fitted with the upright 10E engine.
@@Vanrides. sport bike Of course 🙄 They were rather one track minded as majority of the bike journalists would later become Pushing everyone onto expensive lite bikes until the bubble burst when people realised what poor road bikes they make
I worked in a motorcycle shop in 1963 and we had a Francis Barnett Fulmar in stock for ages - never saw it sold but the worst thing was a customer came in and traded an ageing Lambretta for a new James scooter. A few days later he brought it back and asked for his Lambretta back. The boss said he'd lose money on the deal but he didn't care, he left with his Lambretta!
My first bike was a 1955 James Comet with a 98cc Villiers engine. I then bought a 150cc James Cadet with the AMC engine and passed my test on it. After that I gave it to my brother in law who used it untill he bought a car. He then used it in the hardcore for his garden shed, shame really, I would love to have it back now.😢
British electrics were often poor. Early battery coil ignition systems from Luca permanently damaged the reputation of BSAs early A65s and left many riders at the side of the road pining for their magneto driven A10s
To be fair to it How old was it by then and how many years of abuse had it suffered ? Not too many bikes put with the abuse of the average young rider, something that is still very true today
Nice little video on what were very popular 'learner' bikes of the Sixties. A few friends owned 'Fanny Bs' all those years ago. l remember one owned a 350 version. This was before the Japanese invasion. They finished off an already ailing motorcycle industry....The guy riding in a trench coat was the norm for blokes using them purely for work transport... for us young blades it was ice blue jeans, a leather jacket, a skid-lid helmet or Jet type and boots with seaman's white socks turn over the top.....even when we were on learner type bikes.
I bought a Francis Barnet cruiser 89 250 twin for £50 in the 80’s. Thrashed the nuts out of it. Used to chuck out loads of smoke at 20.1 heat seized occasionally but a bloody good bike, & the 2T exhaust note was great.
I learnt to ride on a Francis Barnett 250 that a friend lent me. Probably the worst bike I have ever used, but I was desperate to get to work. It leaked oil and was always breaking down. I'll never forget the look on his face when he came to fix a roadside breakdown and when he restarted it and let out the clutch it went BACKWARDS!
The running backwards thing was well known All two strokes kick it some all Total loss after all Japanese included But apart from the gear box there is no oil to leak as such just what get blown out of the exhaust
I operated a 197 Villiers Francis Barnett. Sure this is about AMC engines, however it remined me of my bike. The FB had a sound, which earned it the name "Peanut-Roaster". It was an ex scrambler that had been straightened and painted. The crank taper for the magneto flywheel had seen better days - and so often it would fly off and hurtle ahead down the road leaving me to chase it. Then I became expert at attaching it and timing it. It was no super-bike by any means, and most days a medium breeze would knock it back to what seemed a crawl. A barrel attachment lug cracked off, so we had it re attached by metal spray welding. That bike was target of endless ridicule.
I also owned a Villiers 1957 225 single FB which cost 70 pounds in 1960 . i was 16 at the time. Did not know the history, so many thanks for this informative documentary.
My mate's dad was transport manager at the Barnet and I could have bought one direct at a discount, but I chose to buy a new Jawa 250 instead; I needed reliable transport for my 75-mile each way commute!
@@bikerdood1100 Sure was! Not fun in the early 1960's, wearing a jet helmet, goggles, PVC riding suit and frequently-sodden gauntlets and boots, in snow, fog, hail, rain and (occasionally!) sunshine, day and night all year round.
My very first bike in 1961 was a brand new James Comet with 98cc Villiers with two speed foot change gears. One up and one down. (or was it the other way round) so long ago. Compared to Japanese Honda C50 & 90's that were just coming on stream, the James was a heavy bike for that little two stroke to push along. I was a 16 yrs old weighing elevn & Half stone and on the straight and level could manage no more than 42mph. Chin on the tank with a good wind behind me 45mph. Even then a Honda C50 with electric start, automatic gears, plastic mudguards, indicators and fuel level instrumentation was faster than that bike of mine. No wonder British bikes started to rapidly decline.
Yeh not surprising…..I recall back in ‘63 a friend having a new Honda Dream 250 when I had a Norton 650 ss; many people were saying about the Japanese bike - “we don’t need electric starters, direction indicators, fuel gauge etc and we certainly we don’t want bright colours”. The British bike industry at the time were so complacent and that’s why so many went bust. Regarding my Norton 650 and my earlier 350 Navigator I spent a lot of time trying (unsuccessfully!) to stop oil leaks; my mates Honda never leaked oil from anywhere. At 80 I’m running a 2002 Honda VFR V-tech and the only oil that ‘leaks’ is from the Scottoiler!
i have a 64 and a 60 falcon which i am restoring, great video and keep up the good work, I think with the technology we have now the AMC engine can be made just as good as any villiers so long as its not for performance, which it was never meant to be
I had a 1951 F.B. Falcon 197, with a Villiers 6E engine, my first ever bike at 13 years old, in 1963. Wasn't fast but utterly reliable on the country tracks we bombed about on. Next, was a Norman B3 with the Villiers 2T engine. had this one on the road. Had to use Red-X in it to stop it seizing now and again. I was young and didn't have a lot of mechanical knowledge back then. I'd be a lot better with it now though!! Back then, when Villiers stopped producing their own engines, it was well known the the AMC (people reckoned they had a French connection) were utter crap. My brother had a James Commodore with a 225cc Villiers engine and that bike was brilliant!!
AMC engines were poor output because they were deflector pistons to try change and keep the charge in the cylinder, older Villiers used deflector topped pistons . Performance is not a name to be used for either. We sold the 200 FB and bought a new Suzuki M15. 50cc which was superb performance machine for its size and nearly as fast as the 200 and faster than my previous 8E panther 200 which was always trying to kill me as it so bad in every way.
My first bike, a 175 FB. Thrashed and abuse it. Even used cooking oil as lubricant once. It never let me down! Would keep up with a mates 175 Bantam (just). Later fitted a Sports Captain engine and that quite a bit faster.
How sad was I on my 16th birthday in 1971 when my metallic blue James Captain seized 70 miles from home! Come to think of it I seized my next bike as well. But a CB 175 could seize at 70 mph on the M1 in a blizzard.
My first bike was a second hand Francis Barnett Cruiser 225cc single; I think the engine was AMC but I’m not certain. It was reliable for the 18 months I owned it. I changed it in 1963 for a Norton 650 ss (£343)….quite a contrast. Wish I’d kept both…hindsight eh? (the Norton wasn’t too reliable!).
Norton to be fair to them planned to build a new production facility in 1960 AMC had other ideas and Nortons were built on increasing worn out machine tools
@@bikerdood1100 No one told me that! I took my Norton back to the factory at Bracebridge Street in Birmingham; as I recall it was a red brick building. Don’t recall how I found it without a satnav….
Great video but pity it wasn't a bit longer - I was just getting into it! I'm not surprised FB and James went to the wall in the mid 60's. Given a choice between a plodding unreliable Fanny Barnett and a Suzuki X6 or Yamaha YDS3 what would you choose. I'm old enough to remember people making that choice and they all went Japanese. Even if an X6 was out of financial reach something like a YL1 Yamaha would still be a far better choice. Even the Villiers engined ones were only marginally better.
Those AMC two strokes did no end of damage really. I think the only thing they achieved was too endure Villiers income dropped leaving them with zero development funding. A pity because despite popular opinion some very good engineers worked there.
It was a major error building their own motors With their main customers gone Villiers didn’t have the cash to develop new engines, with the possible exception of the star maker, leaving them falling behind the competition. They had the design expertise had the development funds been there
My first bike was Piatti scooter. Two days after I bought it I slid across the road on two wheels and a footboard into a parked car. In my defense, I was sixteen.
No because they were in competition Don’t believe BSA supplied engines to anyone else back then and they probably sold all the Bantams they could make. This was the late 50s before the mini and Ford pop started stealing motorcycle sales
U might not see this but tommorow im going to look at what i think is a crusier 89. Ive been given the chance to buy one thats been in a garage for 9 years for £800 What things should i worry about tryong to restore this bike?
Not too much I think, Restoring a small bike is as expensive as a big one. I don’t know what the supply of Piatta engine spares is like, Villiers is excellent. The AMC motor if that’s what’s in it should be ok really as long as you can get parts they just didn’t much like being thrashed back in the day Owners club should be very helpful
@@bikerdood1100 That was my bike at 5.05 (red Cruiser 84)and me ridding it. I rebuilt it 12 years ago from boxes of parts. I sold it a few months ago to finance another build. I never really had any issues with it once i fixed the clutch. The main problem was the AMC assembly room which resented having to build them so it fell to apprentices mainly as the tradesmen preferred working on the bigger 4 stroke machines. In the later years after Villiers were contracted to assemble them, those engines had a V added to the engine identification and they became the AMC 25T V. Another issue was the proximity of the ring gaps to the transfer ports which frequently broke rings. Another semi unique innovation was the cutouts in the piston skirt that covered and uncovered the intake and transfer ports. The piston top design you mention are matched with a combustion chamber that has wedge shapes that go down inside the bore to create the squish. (i hope that makes sense?) If you look closely you might notice that the whole front end is exactly the same as the Norton Jubilee and many other parts were shared with other AMC lightweight bikes like Matchless and AJS. The gear change return spring was shared with the jubilee also as were the clutch baskets for some engines. so it wasn't just James and Fanny B's that shared parts, other amc marques got in on the action no doubt to save money. This also contributed to their unreliability as Piatti didn't necessarily approve of all changes/design constraints to his design. Nice video as it was very hard to find any info when i built mine. The Francis Barnett owners club are fantastic though..
Currently rebuilding a Francis barnett fulmar I've owned for many years but realy struggling to find final drive sprocket for a 15t engine. If anyone knows of one I'd be really grateful if they'd let me know.
I recall seeing a Matchless or AJS machine at a dealership in the late '50s or early '60s that was a two-stroke, somewhere about 165cc. Would it have been one of the kind shown in this video? I don't think the dealer had gotten but one and it was rather dated looking compared to the new Yamahas that he'd taken on.
I don’t think the AJS or Matchless names were used on two at that time, well not in the UK. The AMC parent company of course owned Francis Barnett and James. In the US who knows what badges were applied to what. In the late 60s there was the AJS Stormer trail bike which used a two stroke engine and that machine was produced in tiny numbers for years even after the industry had gone pop
@@bikerdood1100 IIRC, Cooper Motors in California was the importer and distributor of Matchless and AJS in the U.S. and that would have been the source for the dealership I was referring to in Wichita, Ks. It was long ago but the basic shape of the engine is what led me to watch the video which was interesting. I'm pretty positive it had to be one of the AMC machines, probably rebranded because Matchless/AJS was a fairly strong contender in the British made machines but FB and the other names would have barely gotten a yawn, was that way for me anyhow. There were few Villiers powered machines being ridden at the time and I never saw the machine run but, with my keen discernment (!..:-)..) of the time, I thought it looked "puny" compared to my Zundapp or any of the German two strokes that were around.
yes me first Motor bile FB 250 amc Crouser 80 flat torque curve groan Lambkin rode a scramble version but he ran it on dope My FB well it worked got us and girl friend around one thing it kept breaking gear foot lever return spring
My first bike in about 1972 was a 175cc Franny Barnett Light Cruiser 79 with an AMC 17T engine, reg no. PRJ24. I paid £8 and a pack of 20 fags for it. I remember sometimes if the engine was just about to stop and I caught it right it would run in reverse😁 I later sold the bike for £100 and the reg plate separately to some nutcase north of the border who used the plate before transferring it legally and I got loads of parking tickets and no tax summonses sent to me. I think the bike had a Q-plate issued to it, but would like to know what happened to it and whether its still running?
In the mid '60's i had a James Sports Superswift with the Villiers 2T motor, and i loved it. It sounded just like my mates Yamaha YDS2 but that was the only thing it had in common with the Yammy. I kept it for 2 years before trading it in for a Honda. I wish i still had the James.
Well at least the 2T would have been smooth
Yamaha fast but definitely not so smooth and user friendly
I had a yds3 in 1965 fast smooth, but very thirsty (45mpg) !!😃😃
My first bike was a new (old-stock) 1964 Falcon 87 in 1969. Currently riding a 1960 Cruiser 80. Had a scrambler with the AMC engine and an early Falcon (field-bike)with a Villiers 197 engine. Went from Dublin to North Galway and back one summer day last year, on the Cruiser. No problems, except that the exhaust pipe nut unscrewed, a roadside fix😊
Nice 👌
I had a 199cc AMC engined Falcon from new around 1962, practically identical that which appears at 2.05 in the video. Did some 45000 miles on a 26 mile return trip to work without any major catastrophes apart from a broken chain and the occasional puncture. Although - I'd only had it about a week when part of the wiring harness caught fire - fixed under guarantee by the local dealer. When I first had it, the engine sounded fine, no unusual noises. One of the older lads at work said "When you've had it a year or so it'll sound like a bucket of nuts and bolts". He was right - it did! One thing that seemed to break on a fairly regular basis was the return spring on the gear-change pedal.
Really enjoyed the video - nice to see the old bike, or at least its doppelganger, again Thanks!
I believe by 62 Villiers we’re doing engine assembly for AMC
Makes you wonder why they didn’t just use Villiers in the first place and saves a ton of cash
When he bought a VW Beetle in 1967, my father gave me his 200cc FB Falcon with single-cylinder Piatti engine.
And, as I soon fund out, what a vibratory old banger it was!
Although I was mad keen on motorbikes it eventually conked out and/or I just gave up on it.
No wonder the British bike industry died, with embarrassingly inept efforts like that...
Well the Piaggio engine is not really a good demonstration of the industry as a whole more problems within AMC as a company
A beetle 🤦
VW Beetle - an automtive classic.
But the Francis Barnet...?
@@bikerdood1100
@@VincentComet-l8e Piatti engine is poor no doubt
But a beetle
Just another tin box, Classic or not
I’m a biker clues in the tittle
German or Korean, just a box on wheels clogging up the roads
In retrospect, what have you got against the VW Beetle - or any other car - for that matter?
I only mentioned the VW because it’s what my father bought to replace that appalling FB - obviously the sensible thing to do having young children.
Why so tunnel-visioned, only fixating on one form of transport?
However impractical and potentially unsafe it might be.
Personally, I appreciate both cars & bikes…
@@bikerdood1100
@@VincentComet-l8e
'Beetles an automotive classic' ???????
I know they have their fans but I always considered them very crude cars indeed.
And for those who didn't know - I had to look it up, AMC stood for Associated Motor Cycles.
One would hope most people would
Some say disassociated motors would have been more appropriate
Love your work, thanks for the vid and keep up the good work. In 1979 as a newly licensed 16 year old I bought by first bike - it was a 'classic' then, a 1960 FB Falcon with the 197 AMC engine. I loved it. Reasonably reliable when I wasn't swapping the head gasket for one I made of tinfoil (more compression = more speed) and running it on a Avgas as a higher octane fuel (... even more speed 😉). I recall looking behind me to see a trail of pure white smoke worthy of a jet airliner and she did indeed go faster for about a mile before the gasket failed. All good fun, and remarkably and against the odds - I lived to tell the tale.
Things we did to those poor old bikes
My first bike was a James sports captain back in 1964. The only good thing about the bike was it self taught me how to rebuild engines, it spent more time being repaired than ridden. Still have a brand new sports captain brake pedal hanging on the garage wall,been hanging on various garage walls for over 50 years. As said in the video, if ridden with some mechanical sympathy the AMC engines are not too bad and a fairly cheap way into sixties classic(grey porridge) motorcycling.
I think most people’s first bike was like that
My Suzuki got pushed a few times
Never really like the term get porridge for these bikes
I reality it’s what most people had at leat at the beginning
They may all claim they owned Goldstars but somehow I doubt it
Nothing wrong with a get you to work bike
The Honda Cub has some how become fashionable after all
@bikerdood1100 Funny enough I did own a goldie from Sept 1967 to Sept 1969. The reg was 830 OTB, its still out there somewhere. The term grey porridge was I think coined by Onetrack when he was a regular colunmist for the magazine Sport Motorcycle back in the eighties. His description of the more mundane machines compared to the more sporty/classic big twins. One of the best looking british two stroke bikes in my opinion is the last of the villiers engined James captains fitted with the upright 10E engine.
@@Vanrides. sport bike
Of course 🙄
They were rather one track minded as majority of the bike journalists would later become
Pushing everyone onto expensive lite bikes until the bubble burst when people realised what poor road bikes they make
I ;Ike your approach and content. Keep up the great work.
Thank you, nice to get some positive feedback
I worked in a motorcycle shop in 1963 and we had a Francis Barnett Fulmar in stock for ages - never saw it sold but the worst thing was a customer came in and traded an ageing Lambretta for a new James scooter. A few days later he brought it back and asked for his Lambretta back. The boss said he'd lose money on the deal but he didn't care, he left with his Lambretta!
The James looked nice but the engine laying horizontal exposed the the joy that is British weather always seems a bad idea
I was lucky enough to have a James Sports Captain, an eye catching machine, fitted with a Villiers motor
Villiers engines, much maligned but pretty dependable things I’ve found.
The James sports captain was fitted with the 199 AMC engine.
My first bike was a 1955 James Comet with a 98cc Villiers engine. I then bought a 150cc James Cadet with the AMC engine and passed my test on it. After that I gave it to my brother in law who used it untill he bought a car. He then used it in the hardcore for his garden shed, shame really, I would love to have it back now.😢
Sad
@@bikerdood1100
Yes it was a shame, however the good news is, that Francis Barnett are back in business as are Villiers 👍😎
AMC engined bikes were always regarded as less reliable than Villiers back in the day. A lot of it was down to the Wico-pacy electrical systems.
British electrics were often poor. Early battery coil ignition systems from Luca permanently damaged the reputation of BSAs early A65s and left many riders at the side of the road pining for their magneto driven A10s
I had a Fanny Barnet, in the 70's, it looked great just never ran.
To be fair to it
How old was it by then and how many years of abuse had it suffered ?
Not too many bikes put with the abuse of the average young rider, something that is still very true today
Nice little video on what were very popular 'learner' bikes of the Sixties. A few friends owned 'Fanny Bs' all those years ago. l remember one owned a 350 version. This was before the Japanese invasion. They finished off an already ailing motorcycle industry....The guy riding in a trench coat was the norm for blokes using them purely for work transport... for us young blades it was ice blue jeans, a leather jacket, a skid-lid helmet or Jet type and boots with seaman's white socks turn over the top.....even when we were on learner type bikes.
Learner or not as my son demonstrates, it’s always been important to look good
I bought a Francis Barnet cruiser 89 250 twin for £50 in the 80’s. Thrashed the nuts out of it. Used to chuck out loads of smoke at 20.1 heat seized occasionally but a bloody good bike, & the 2T exhaust note was great.
Quite a tough motor by reputation the 2T
I learnt to ride on a Francis Barnett 250 that a friend lent me. Probably the worst bike I have ever used, but I was desperate to get to work. It leaked oil and was always breaking down. I'll never forget the look on his face when he came to fix a roadside breakdown and when he restarted it and let out the clutch it went BACKWARDS!
The running backwards thing was well known
All two strokes kick it some all
Total loss after all
Japanese included
But apart from the gear box there is no oil to leak as such just what get blown out of the exhaust
I operated a 197 Villiers Francis Barnett. Sure this is about AMC engines, however it remined me of my bike. The FB had a sound, which earned it the name "Peanut-Roaster". It was an ex scrambler that had been straightened and painted. The crank taper for the magneto flywheel had seen better days - and so often it would fly off and hurtle ahead down the road leaving me to chase it. Then I became expert at attaching it and timing it. It was no super-bike by any means, and most days a medium breeze would knock it back to what seemed a crawl. A barrel attachment lug cracked off, so we had it re attached by metal spray welding. That bike was target of endless ridicule.
We had an excelsior 150, it was a ton of fun but
Bloody slow
I also owned a Villiers 1957 225 single FB which cost 70 pounds in 1960 . i was 16 at the time. Did not know the history, so many thanks for this informative documentary.
One thing about worn out old bikes is the experience gained both riding and keeping the thing going
My mate's dad was transport manager at the Barnet and I could have bought one direct at a discount, but I chose to buy a new Jawa 250 instead; I needed reliable transport for my 75-mile each way commute!
Long way in bad weather
@@bikerdood1100 Sure was! Not fun in the early 1960's, wearing a jet helmet, goggles, PVC riding suit and frequently-sodden gauntlets and boots, in snow, fog, hail, rain and (occasionally!) sunshine, day and night all year round.
My very first bike in 1961 was a brand new James Comet with 98cc Villiers with two speed foot change gears. One up and one down. (or was it the other way round) so long ago. Compared to Japanese Honda C50 & 90's that were just coming on stream, the James was a heavy bike for that little two stroke to push along. I was a 16 yrs old weighing elevn & Half stone and on the straight and level could manage no more than 42mph. Chin on the tank with a good wind behind me 45mph. Even then a Honda C50 with electric start, automatic gears, plastic mudguards, indicators and fuel level instrumentation was faster than that bike of mine. No wonder British bikes started to rapidly decline.
Crude little engine that 98cc job. Some bikes the excelsior used it with a hand change, in the 50s?
Yeh not surprising…..I recall back in ‘63 a friend having a new Honda Dream 250 when I had a Norton 650 ss; many people were saying about the Japanese bike - “we don’t need electric starters, direction indicators, fuel gauge etc and we certainly we don’t want bright colours”. The British bike industry at the time were so complacent and that’s why so many went bust.
Regarding my Norton 650 and my earlier 350 Navigator I spent a lot of time trying (unsuccessfully!) to stop oil leaks; my mates Honda never leaked oil from anywhere. At 80 I’m running a 2002 Honda VFR V-tech and the only oil that ‘leaks’ is from the Scottoiler!
i have a 64 and a 60 falcon which i am restoring, great video and keep up the good work, I think with the technology we have now the AMC engine can be made just as good as any villiers so long as its not for performance, which it was never meant to be
Well modern oils would definitely help
Ironically Villiers assemble the engines in later years
I had a 1951 F.B. Falcon 197, with a Villiers 6E engine, my first ever bike at 13 years old, in 1963. Wasn't fast but utterly reliable on the country tracks we bombed about on. Next, was a Norman B3 with the Villiers 2T engine. had this one on the road. Had to use Red-X in it to stop it seizing now and again. I was young and didn't have a lot of mechanical knowledge back then. I'd be a lot better with it now though!! Back then, when Villiers stopped producing their own engines, it was well known the the AMC (people reckoned they had a French connection) were utter crap. My brother had a James Commodore with a 225cc Villiers engine and that bike was brilliant!!
Often wonder how reliable they would have been with modern oils
I do like the 2T would love the feature some day
Very informative! Thanks for sharing 😁👍
No worries mate
AMC engines were poor output because they were deflector pistons to try change and keep the charge in the cylinder, older Villiers used deflector topped pistons . Performance is not a name to be used for either. We sold the 200 FB and bought a new Suzuki M15. 50cc which was superb performance machine for its size and nearly as fast as the 200 and faster than my previous 8E panther 200 which was always trying to kill me as it so bad in every way.
Piatti design was indeed quite poor but was in fairness to him effected by management penny pinching
What's a deflector piston. Genuinely interested. Rather you tell me before I goggle it.
My first bike, a 175 FB.
Thrashed and abuse it. Even used cooking oil as lubricant once. It never let me down! Would keep up with a mates 175 Bantam (just). Later fitted a Sports Captain engine and that quite a bit faster.
Are those British two strokes
@@bikerdood1100 yes.
Basically a ride to work motorcycle.
Never intended to be a performance machine.
How sad was I on my 16th birthday in 1971 when my metallic blue James Captain seized 70 miles from home! Come to think of it I seized my next bike as well. But a CB 175 could seize at 70 mph on the M1 in a blizzard.
I’m thinking a young man with a heavy throttle hand
But everyone says Japanese bikes are indestructible 😂
"Heartbeat" bike.
Well yes
Francis Barnett
My first bike was a second hand Francis Barnett Cruiser 225cc single; I think the engine was AMC but I’m not certain. It was reliable for the 18 months I owned it.
I changed it in 1963 for a Norton 650 ss (£343)….quite a contrast. Wish I’d kept both…hindsight eh? (the Norton wasn’t too reliable!).
Norton to be fair to them planned to build a new production facility in 1960
AMC had other ideas and Nortons were built on increasing worn out machine tools
@@bikerdood1100 No one told me that! I took my Norton back to the factory at Bracebridge Street in Birmingham; as I recall it was a red brick building. Don’t recall how I found it without a satnav….
@@neilurquhart8622 strange how we used to somehow manage just fine without a world of electronic crap isn’t it
My first bike was a James
Hopefully it gave good service, not rapid but dependable
Great video but pity it wasn't a bit longer - I was just getting into it! I'm not surprised FB and James went to the wall in the mid 60's. Given a choice between a plodding unreliable Fanny Barnett and a Suzuki X6 or Yamaha YDS3 what would you choose. I'm old enough to remember people making that choice and they all went Japanese. Even if an X6 was out of financial reach something like a YL1 Yamaha would still be a far better choice. Even the Villiers engined ones were only marginally better.
Those AMC two strokes did no end of damage really. I think the only thing they achieved was too endure Villiers income dropped leaving them with zero development funding. A pity because despite popular opinion some very good engineers worked there.
It was a major error building their own motors
With their main customers gone Villiers didn’t have the cash to develop new engines, with the possible exception of the star maker, leaving them falling behind the competition.
They had the design expertise had the development funds been there
Had an aftermarket piston and alloy barrel on a James cotswold that went OK but standard they were slow.
Well I expect they were built for a reliable daily commute.
Just been looking at the video and I was shocked when I came on the screen starting my James 250 the green and white one.
Nice
Hope it’s running well sometimes have to grab footage where you can
Not much of the AMC two strokes at all
@@bikerdood1100 I sold the bike two years ago I dont ride anymore lost confidence .did you see the video of the first time I started the engine.
@@derekevans8266 shame about that can’t imagine stopping
My first bike was Piatti scooter. Two days after I bought it I slid across the road on two wheels and a footboard into a parked car. In my defense, I was sixteen.
Enough said really 😂
Couldn't they get bantam motors from BSA?
No because they were in competition
Don’t believe BSA supplied engines to anyone else back then and they probably sold all the Bantams they could make. This was the late 50s before the mini and Ford pop started stealing motorcycle sales
U might not see this but tommorow im going to look at what i think is a crusier 89.
Ive been given the chance to buy one thats been in a garage for 9 years for £800
What things should i worry about tryong to restore this bike?
Not too much I think,
Restoring a small bike is as expensive as a big one. I don’t know what the supply of Piatta engine spares is like, Villiers is excellent. The AMC motor if that’s what’s in it should be ok really as long as you can get parts they just didn’t much like being thrashed back in the day
Owners club should be very helpful
The Cruiser 89 has a Villiers twin engine fitted. All parts are available from Villiers services in the UK.@@bikerdood1100
At 4:29 is a Francis Barnett Cruiser 84. Is the engine the Piatti designed AMC motor?
Yep
@@bikerdood1100 That was my bike at 5.05 (red Cruiser 84)and me ridding it. I rebuilt it 12 years ago from boxes of parts. I sold it a few months ago to finance another build. I never really had any issues with it once i fixed the clutch.
The main problem was the AMC assembly room which resented having to build them so it fell to apprentices mainly as the tradesmen preferred working on the bigger 4 stroke machines. In the later years after Villiers were contracted to assemble them, those engines had a V added to the engine identification and they became the AMC 25T V. Another issue was the proximity of the ring gaps to the transfer ports which frequently broke rings. Another semi unique innovation was the cutouts in the piston skirt that covered and uncovered the intake and transfer ports. The piston top design you mention are matched with a combustion chamber that has wedge shapes that go down inside the bore to create the squish. (i hope that makes sense?)
If you look closely you might notice that the whole front end is exactly the same as the Norton Jubilee and many other parts were shared with other AMC lightweight bikes like Matchless and AJS. The gear change return spring was shared with the jubilee also as were the clutch baskets for some engines. so it wasn't just James and Fanny B's that shared parts, other amc marques got in on the action no doubt to save money. This also contributed to their unreliability as Piatti didn't necessarily approve of all changes/design constraints to his design. Nice video as it was very hard to find any info when i built mine. The Francis Barnett owners club are fantastic though..
Currently rebuilding a Francis barnett fulmar I've owned for many years but realy struggling to find final drive sprocket for a 15t engine. If anyone knows of one I'd be really grateful if they'd let me know.
Good luck
Good to see another machine saved
I recall seeing a Matchless or AJS machine at a dealership in the late '50s or early '60s that was a two-stroke, somewhere about 165cc. Would it have been one of the kind shown in this video? I don't think the dealer had gotten but one and it was rather dated looking compared to the new Yamahas that he'd taken on.
I don’t think the AJS or Matchless names were used on two at that time, well not in the UK. The AMC parent company of course owned Francis Barnett and James.
In the US who knows what badges were applied to what.
In the late 60s there was the AJS Stormer trail bike which used a two stroke engine and that machine was produced in tiny numbers for years even after the industry had gone pop
@@bikerdood1100 IIRC, Cooper Motors in California was the importer and distributor of Matchless and AJS in the U.S. and that would have been the source for the dealership I was referring to in Wichita, Ks. It was long ago but the basic shape of the engine is what led me to watch the video which was interesting. I'm pretty positive it had to be one of the AMC machines, probably rebranded because Matchless/AJS was a fairly strong contender in the British made machines but FB and the other names would have barely gotten a yawn, was that way for me anyhow. There were few Villiers powered machines being ridden at the time and I never saw the machine run but, with my keen discernment (!..:-)..) of the time, I thought it looked "puny" compared to my Zundapp or any of the German two strokes that were around.
yes me first Motor bile FB 250 amc Crouser 80 flat torque curve groan Lambkin rode a scramble version but he ran it on dope My FB well it worked got us and girl friend around one thing
it kept breaking gear foot lever return spring
Silly little things on a lot of old bikes that just dragged an otherwise capable bike down
My first bike in about 1972 was a 175cc Franny Barnett Light Cruiser 79 with an AMC 17T engine, reg no. PRJ24. I paid £8 and a pack of 20 fags for it. I remember sometimes if the engine was just about to stop and I caught it right it would run in reverse😁
I later sold the bike for £100 and the reg plate separately to some nutcase north of the border who used the plate before transferring it legally and I got loads of parking tickets and no tax summonses sent to me. I think the bike had a Q-plate issued to it, but would like to know what happened to it and whether its still running?
They do have a reputation for running backwards those Piatti designed engines
Quirky design all round