Good comment from Patron Michael Mann that I wanted to share: I did have one "yes, but..." point about the plot convenience of having a werewolf attack just as Oz came back to town, though. Based on the dialogue when Oz and Willow are under the full moon outside her dorm, it seems that he intentionally chose that time of the month to return and demonstrate his ability to control the wolf. It's not a coincidence that a werewolf attack would be possible on that particular night - just that there would be a mishap on that particular full moon. Given the frequency of paranormal/underworldly happenings in Sunnydale on a regular basis, I think the probability of a werewolf getting loose this month is sufficiently high to suspend my disbelief.
Dear PotN, I have a question. I've had a line of your dialogue running through my head every now and again about something you said about Willow. Something like "We get a glimpse of that darkness when the light goes out." You were referring to a grounding force in Willow's life (either Tara or Oz) and I was just wondering if you knew where in your content you said that. It's just been bugging me
It’s still a coincidence that they resembled werewolves, but the creatures that attack the team are just a type of demon. It’s a contrivance but having them be werewolves would’ve been just too big a contrivance. You can tell they’re demons as they have horns and werewolves never do in this universe. Also, Willow does in fact make a choice in this episode. She might not say it in dialogue, but it is there and very, very obvious. She tells Oz in softer terms that they are pretty much over and that she moved on, and tells Tara in the final scene that she’s with who she loves. It’s subtle, but it’s not THAT subtle. I can tell pretty clearly from the dialogue that it was the intent here, not some ambiguous lack of choice that to be honest is a stretch.
Isn't the conversation regarding Miss Kitty Fantastico the one where Willow initially assumes that Tara wants a cat as a familiar, but Tara clarifies that she means as a pet? I love that moment: Willow thinking that the cat is supposed to be a use for magic, while Tara just wants a cat to have a pet for them. Willow's focus on the magic versus Tara's focus on the normal; sure, Tara's got magic, too, but she also is capable of seeing things in terms of "normal", to maybe put it badly, whereas Willow... Look, basically, I think it's decent foreshadowing of future conflicts for them, showing how Willow's focus is on the magic, increasingly, while Tara's like, "No, I just want to have a pet for us--nothing magical, just a normal pet."
Rewatching the series the 4th time around paying attention to how often Willow tries to get a quick solution to a normal life problem rather than facing it head on and how much she ties her identity to being a spellcaster, it really stands out. I almost forgot about her thinking familiar rather than pet. Good catch!
Indeed, Willow had tech as a more natural part of her, where as magic became a crutch for her instead. It wasn't until post-darkwillow that it became more of a natural part of her. She had to dip into the darkest depth of magical corruption before she could be saved from it lure and truly begin to make magic a part of her as a whole, rather than a lowkey addiction.... just one more cigarette before work, just a cup of coffee before waking up in full... the little addictions that are used to keep our daily lives going, for a lot of people. I dun see it as a hard addiction tho, it's more like an inability to sleep so is on constant sleeping aides, or an addict towards gambling, etc.
Yes yes yes, I love the familiar/pet line here, underscoring how Tara has grown up with magic (mainly through her mother) and has a handle on it that Willow - at this stage - still lacks.
I actually like that it wasn’t a choice Willow had to make in the end, rather an organic growth of character. In the time Oz has been gone, Willow has had time to process and come to term with what happened, and I think she forgave Oz, hence not being mad at him for leaving. Oz, meanwhile, has focused so much energy into his wolf rehab - and we can safely assume it was partly, of not mostly, FOR Willow - in relative isolation. We tend to assume that things will stay in stasis when we leave a place, that’s why revisiting a childhood home can feel so weird. I don’t think it’s only Willow’s new relationship that throws Oz off, it’s the new EVERYTHING. Both Willow and Sunnydale evolved while Oz was gone, and he wasn’t able to evolve with it.
I like MUCH of that in this episode and probably should have spent a little more time on it. The final Oz and Willow scene is loaded with a lot to say about love and loss. I just still feel like the way in which the story is structured is a problem. I will come back to some of it later on.
Passion of the Nerd Thanks for the reply!! Actually, something I forgot to mention previously - I really like this positive portrayal of falling out of love. They’re still friends, they still have an undeniable connection, but they’re not in love any more. And that’s okay. I can’t think of any other media I’ve seen that’s done that! Edit: And one more thing, because apparently I have all the opinions about this episode! I don’t at all mind that Riley stops Oz’s experimentation because he knows him, for two reasons: firstly, I don’t think it even is just because of that, I think this is where Riley finally draws a line, but in order to stop the other soldiers he has to say something that they can relate to; secondly, that’s basically the reason why Angel didn’t get staked - because Buffy had a big ol’ lady boner for him!
She does make a choice though - she makes it clear that she isn’t going to be with Oz. She’s sweet about it and acknowledges that loving someone doesn’t just leave you even after months of them being absent, but she makes it absolutely clear. It’s pretty damn clear actually from the final two scenes that Willow is choosing to be with Tara - some people just seem to need it to be said rather than the blatant inference that can be made.
One of many great things about BTVS is a generous view of romantic love: As far as we can see, Willow's adolescent love for Xander was real, her love for Oz was real, and her love for Tara was real, and there's no reason to think any of those are incompatible.
@@RussophileAmethystTsarina30 is that in reference to spike? If so I think Spike genuinely did love buffy- but at the end of the day he was a demon, which is why he then went to get his soul
I just noticed that in the opening of this episode, Willow is wearing the sweater that Kathy borrowed and spilled ketchup on in Living Conditions. It's not really deeply relevant to the episode themes, but I love the little hint that Buffy is either getting over her selfishness or at least more willing to share with someone she deeply loves and wants to support.
Nah, I think Willow is making a choice subtextually. It happens this way because Oz is so non-verbal and intuitive. Once the veil is lifted (smelling Willow on Tara), the truth is obvious to him. This is who Willow is now. If she weren't, if she were still his, the wolf wouldn't be a problem. But things are the way they are, and he has to leave. Most of the most important choices come from deep inside of us. They're not choices made consciously. What's important is Willow stops veiling who she is to the world and her friends. The end of the episode is cream, well-earned and richly enjoyable.
I like the way you've put it. I guess in that way the conflict isn't actually "Who will Willow choose" So much as it is "Will Willow come out to her friends". She's been hiding Tara from them for a while and although Faith recognized it instantly. (Personal belief it's because Faith is queer herself) no one else had a clue. In that way the payoff isn't supposed to be Oz in the car, but instead Willow's "It's complicated because of Tara". Willow never really struck me all episode as feeling tempted to go back to Oz so much as sad as her hand was forced.
It's an interesting point, and I agree mostly. But, I do think the wolf is still a problem. He thought he had it under control totally, and something set it off. This time it was losing Willow, but there is no way to know for sure that that's the only trigger.
This is how I saw it too. Her choice didn't need to be said. She moved in. It was obvious in her behavior this whole episode. I LOVED her and Oz but... Come in..that chemistry with tarah was literally magical.
You beautiful tiny ginger... I snorted out an embarrassingly loud laugh right now, riding the bus home from work. Aaaaaand now the little lady opposite is looking at me funny. Thank you, Ian.
In all the dozen dozen times I have watched this episode, I had NEVER noticed Willow was holding a stuffed dog. I was simply unable to look away from Alyson Hannigan’s face for even the fraction of a second needed to register anything but Willow’s conflict. Remarkable.
Maybe Willow didn't make a big dramatic choice in this episode on it's own, but what Oz noticed was that she had already chosen to move on. Oz's arrival also pushes her to come out to Buffy and after the closure (or as close to closure as anybody gets) of talking to Oz she throws herself more openly into her relationship with Tara. The episode shone such a light on what had changed in Oz's absence that it makes his presence uncomfortable in some ways, like somebody photoshopped him in. For me, it worked because she had already made so many choices, and the episode just had that sense of time moving people on, almost more than they want it to move them.
I agree. Willow is emotionally muted in much of the episode because Oz is an unwanted complication in her relationship with Tara. She's trying to find a way to express that to him that isn't hurtful. He loses control not because he smells her scent on Tara, but because he senses the psychic connection they have that he and Willow can't have. He and Willow both know that his leaving because he lost control is really a polite deception, that it's just a way for him to leave with dignity.
Wow, I always watched it as Willow making a choice, but you're right, she absolutely did not, at least not out loud. It's funny the things you see and then see differently. I also love that Buffy character moment "No, absolutely no to that question..." I wish I had a friend like Buffy Summers.
Bornonthecusp To be fair, maybe it was bc we all knew that Seth was only back for THAT episode. 😉 Btw, love your YT name: Buffy was also born on the cusp. i can't remember if she said "Cap born o. t. cusp of Aquarius or Aqua b. o. t. cusp of Capricorn" as a wickedly funny reply to: "What are you?" 😆😂😂😂✌💞
Maybe, I still wonder what his planned season 6 return would've been like! I heard he was inevitably going to be a source of tension for Willow and Tara. Aww thank you! yesss, she totally does. She's a Capricorn on the cusp of Aquarius, I'm the next over on the cusp of Pisces. Gotta love some Buffy Summers wit.
She only doesn’t state the choice out loud. She still very much overtly makes that choice, she’s not a passive character in the story letting Oz decide. In the scene in his van she makes it perfectly clear they are over, it’s just with subtler dialogue than most people are used to from this sort of scene. In most TV, the characters would say ‘it’s over!’ and have some kind of drama over it too. On this show, it’s a lot more subtle. Willow uses many more words to say it but she very much overtly tells Oz things are now over between them, she moved on, and to Tara that she is with who she loves. That’s a choice.
There are no flawless Buffy episodes. I think this is a good one, mainly because I believe the emotional payoff of that last scene between Willow and Tara hits home, but also because I love Willow's "coming out" scene as well as the scene in the van where Oz says goodbye. Three huge emotional wallops in one episode? That's a good episode in my book, one of the best of season 4.
Hush and Once More With Feeling are VERY close to flawless. The Gift could be a distant third. That's really neither here nor there. Your comment just got me thinking. BUT I tried very hard to suggest that the thrust of my commentary really had no bearing on the emotional resonance of those wonderful scenes. The episode has always felt like something was flat to me and I think it was the way the story was setup and structured.
2:51 okay, i get the "oh, Riley's chest is so hairless and weird" joke but... Spike and Angel also have very shaved bodies, why doesn't anyone made a big deal out of that out?
I think maybe it’s due to the plastic-like badly done remaster of season 4. I always notice how plastic everyone looks in season 4 especially in the initiative scenes in the base. In the digital remaster they didn’t take the time to distinguish grain from skin texture so everyone has a weirdly smooth look to them. In the later seasons where we see spike shirtless and the same with the earlier seasons with Angel, I feel like everything has a more realistic look and in their shirtless scenes their skin doesn’t look like perfectly smooth plasticine skin. Atleast that’s why I think it’s appears more noticeable for Riley ( I’m pretty sure the remastered version isn’t the footage used in this video though)
I rarely disagree with you Ian, but Willow DOES make a choice. Tara's line was "No, I understand. You have to be with the person you love", to which Willow responds with "I am", implictly stating that SHE is the person she loves when adding the context of the choice she's been grappling with.
Ian states clearly that the fact that Willow loves Tara doesn't exclude she loves Oz; on the contrary, is very likely she loves both. She'd probably have chosen Tara anyway, but she didn't have to in this episode.
@@ildelpra3846 if that’s what he was getting at, it was poorly articulated. Yes, love isn’t a choice but Willow makes it clear to Oz things are over and aren’t going back to the way things were.
Old comment but the scene is also worded the way it is due to them having to tap dance around the network restraints. Bizarre this video doesn’t even acknowledge that when its a fundamental influence on the entire construction of this relationship. This scene is Willow affirming to Tara that shes the person she loves and wants to be with in the strongest, clearest words the writers were able to get on screen at the time.
I loved this episode, but i absolutely hated the whole Buffy and Riley conflict. Especially these lines: BUFFY "But you sounded like Mr. Initiative. "Demons bad. People good." RILEY "Something wrong with that theorem?" BUFFY "Well, yeah. There's degrees of ..." RILEY "Evil." BUFFY "It's different with different demons. There's creatures... vampires, for example, that aren't evil at all." It just made me suddenly realise what a hypocrite Buffy can be. So she blames Riley for thinking all demons are bad, but then goes out slaying vampires/random demons without even questioning that oh perhaps some of them might be peaceful. I mean sure, we've seen good demons. Doyle, for instance. Now imagine this: early season 4 of Buffy. Doyle comes to Sunnydale for whatever reason and accidentally bumps into two aggressive drunken guys who are looking to start a fight. So they punch Doyle a couple of times, throw him to the ground, get out a knife. Doyle gets incredibly pissed off, changes into his demon form and begins to fight back. Few minutes later, Buffy happens to bump in the three of them. How does the situation look from her perspective? Two terrified guys screaming for help and helplessly trying to protect themselves from a mean green spiky demon! What does Buffy do? Question what's going on? No! Stake the mean green spiky demon, obviously. This hasn't happened in the show, of course. But we don't know that. Maybe some of those demons Buffy killed had a really good reason to act aggressive. Or weren't being aggressive at all. Maybe it was a mixed up situation. Maybe the poor girl that mean vampire killed was an evil maniac who killed his parents. Buffy never questioned so we can't know for certain...
Aaaand this is why Angel is an important show. With its nuanced demon representation it's a much more mature side of the Buffyverse. For as smart as Buffy is, she still tends to operate in black and white, whereas Angel--the show about being an adult--is all about the moral gray. I wonder if Angel shared any of his favourite philosophy books with Buffy while they were dating.
I’m pretty sure she was subtly talking about angel with the “vampires for example...” if you listen to the way she delivers the line... Also later on she’s shown to be friends with Clem, a demon. She called out whistler for being a good demon (if not lazy), and then of course Anya. I think in this scene she was trying to show Riley the shades of gray.
I really dont think buffy has or would kill any "good" demons. "good" demons I think would make themselves apparent even in the midst of battle like the books of ascension demon and others mentioned. When there is any moral quandary it comes up like in the Thanksgiving episode. Or if a do-good-er gets killed mistakenly they would find out after the fact like with the Deputy Mayor (not that he was good) or Katerina. An investigation happens. If the demon or what ever was good it would of had a mission or people in search of that demon/person And would be discovered. I think it's just something you get a sense for in battle. and there there are times where you have go "better its bits then mine" if someone/something is attacking you you have a right to offend yourself. not trying to sound argumentative just trying to assure your faith in Buffy ;)
Whedon was adamant about the demons in the show serving their original mission statement as a metaphor for impediments on the path to adulthood Angel introduced the moral ambiguity, which is our increasingly complex understanding of the world as we mature and develope in it hence his show dealing more with the journey of adulthood then the journey of arriving at it. Even with the consistency of Btvs theme and its multidimensional characters, it is interesting no segment of the audience was ever led to identify with the demons as a symbol of marginalization and demonization because that could have been a unintended consequence.
"I feel like some part of me will always be waiting for you. Like if I'm old and blue-haired and I turn the corner in Istanbul, and there you are. I won't be surprised... Because you're with me, you know?" If Willow shut the door completely on her relationship with Oz there probably would have been a bigger push back against her relationship with Tara at the time.
I never took that to mean there was a possibility of future romance just that their relationship will always be a part of her even if they spend their lives apart
For those of you who want to know what Oz did in Tibet read the Buffy comics Oz miniseries from 2002 and season 8 Retreat Part 2 from 2009. The story involves Tibetan Monks, evil werewolves, lots of meditating, the drinking of much Butter Tea, and a woman named Bayarmaa.
So much to love in this guide as always, and you really are such a great writer. There are some things I read differently, but I actually really like it when someone reads something I love differently. Especially when it's someone I respect. It challenges me to really look at why I read the thing the way I do and I've been doing that with this episode since your live tweet. I think it's because I see this episode as being less about a choice than about the consequences of choices already made. Like Oz's wolf issues changing is kind of a literalizing of the fact that there isn't a place for him now because of his choices in Wild at Heart and since. Willow's love for Tara exists partly because she made a choice to move on. When Buffy chose to get serious with Riley it was inevitable that he would learn about Angel. The thing about consequences is we can't always choose what they are, but we can choose how we react to them, how we handle the situation. How people do that shows a lot about there character, and that to me is the meat of the episode; who our characters are when faced with the consequences of their choices. Oz could have run off again, but instead chooses to talk things out so generously with Willow and that says so much about who he is. It says a lot about who Willow is that she avoids dealing with things or making a choice until that choice is taken from her. Anyway, I think that's why I love this one so much, I am always more interested in character than plot, so maybe I'm reading the plot wrong. Love the guide as always, and I may be nearing 40 but those red arrows still make me giggle like a schoolgirl.
I like it. Tough part about these reviews is my perspective is constantly evolving. There are a number that would be written differently from Season 1 and 2 now. I suppose I should embrace that as one of the BENEFITS of having to write essays like this one and that is getting to read and share in other people's perspectives. I enjoyed yours here.
Great video, as always! As for the "Willow's choice" debate - I totally agree with the principles you state here, about the importance of choices in storytelling... And yet, emotionally, Willow's arc here DOES feel satisfying. And I put a great deal of weight on the emotional power of stories - if a story makes us feel something, then that story is doing something right, even if we don't understand how it's doing it. So, I wonder why that final scene with Tara & Willow STILL feels satisfying, despite the very logical argument you raised against it... And I have a theory: Willow's choice in this episode wasn't between being with Oz or being with Tara - her real choice was between fulfilling her romance with Tara, or keeping their relationship platonic. It's easy to forget this, but Willow & Tara's relationship has NOT been shown as more than sub-textual until this point. We can theorize, but the fact remains that we haven't seen them do anything explicitly romantic with each other - they haven't even said "I love you" until this episode. And while people may theorize that they've done all this off-screen (due to WB censorship), I prefer to think that Willow & Tara were being just as subtextual with each other as the show was. Therefore, Oz's return ended up serving as a catalyst for a REAL choice that Willow made here - the choice between remaining Tara's friend, or becoming Tara's girlfriend. That's the true choice that Willow makes at the end of the episode. And it's a choice that was set up AND paid off properly. "You should be with the person you love." "I am". That's it, that's the choice. That's their first "I love you". That's Willow choosing to be Tara's girlfriend, and not just her friend. As for Willow's OTHER conflict, about choosing between Oz & Tara - that was only a red herring. And given that the emotion of all these scenes WORKS, I'm gonna say that it was a successful red herring. This episode makes you think that it's a love-triangle story, when it's actually a coming-out story.
I like that interpretation and I think that is the way to watch the episode. I just don't think that that is the way the episode was written (if that makes any sense.) Willow keeping her sexuality private was set up through her not wanting to introduce Tara to the group - which has since been resolved. Since then they have not gotten back to the story of her "grappling" with it, which I think would be necessary to make the ending that was delivered here, [completely] satisfying. The conflict of this episode is not set up as her continuing to grapple with that or coming out to Buffy or any of that, but Oz vs Tara. Because of that, the episode has ALWAYS felt to me like something was missing (even before I put my finger on it with this viewing.) And if you insert Willow into the school scene for Tara, I think you still get ALL of the positive things you describe in your comment AND fix the problem I'm bringing up. No NEED for a red herring. Each of those scenes ARE emotionally satisfying but they're enabled by SO MUCH previous content in the series. That doesn't really relate one way or another to the plot and storytelling strokes of this episode. Where the Wild Things Are has great scenes between Anya and Xander. And Behind Blue Eyes. That's inherited glow. The episode's story still leaves much to be desired. NMR is FAR better than WTWA. I'm just trying to make a point about storytelling. With this video, I'm not describing an episode that failed but one that missed an opportunity.
Very good point about the red herring being unnecessary! You're right, the drama could have probably been tighter/better without that. Thematic twists are a tricky thing to pull off properly, and sometimes it's better not to try... I don't really agree with the "inherited glow" part. though. I think that, while this episode wasn't written PERFECTLY, it was still written well in a lot of aspects, and those scenes work due to that too. The inherited glow helps, but it's not ALL because of that. But that's just arguing semantics, probably. You're definitely right about this episode not being as powerful as it can be.
This is the one spot where I think Ian’s overarching frame of absurdist choice trips him up a bit. Willow choosing between Oz & Tara is not the conflict in this ep, and I don’t think it’s what A.H. plays. The conflict is in her need to acknowledge and understand the choice she’s already made, and to communicate that to her friends, to Tara and to herself, and to deal with the consequences of that. This is a tough choice in itself because it involves risking rejection, and potentially causing pain. Dealing with consequences and not trying to paper them over is not a strength for Willow, as we will see repeatedly. Here Oz’s return is a catalyst forcing her to move forward, or, if you will, outward. In other words, Willow DOES choose in this episode, just not in the Oz’s van scene (as beautiful as the callback to “Innocence” is). She chooses, quite bravely, in the dorm room with Buffy, and in Tara’s room at the end. The structural problem with the episode is that Oz is also asked to catalyze the Riley / Initiative arc, which was already in a pointless loop, and just keeps spinning here. Those scenes feel mostly like an enlarged version of those Season 1 or 2 eps where the Master or Angel would wander in for a scene to remind us they exist.
You are the literal only reason I want to get patreon when I have more disposable income, I love your work so much it keeps me sane, and every buffy/angel vid you pump out has been having a positive impact on my shitty mental health for the last year and a half. Can't wait for the next one, much love from down under
It’s so insane that you are only at season 4! We will be watching theses for at least another year before you get to the end. I honestly wanna binge watch your season 5 episodes but you haven’t got there yet 😭. Keep up the amazing work
The episodes where there is good raw material but it just doesn't run smoothly are the best ones for these videos. Picking it apart and looking for the creaking gears and why those don't fit for thematic of logic reasons.. you do that so well.
I think you need to not look at this episode in the context of what Willow chooses but in how she reacts to Oz leaving all over again. It’s sort of like catharsis. The first time she was broken, the second time she was ok. In a way I don’t see the episode as a choice between Tara and Oz (because in many ways that might invalidate the love she and Oz shared). It’s more of an episode about Willow’s growth and her recovery after their relationship ended, like a character arc parallel. It shows that she had actually gotten over Oz leaving before he arrived back in Sunnydale, even if she does still love him in a way. I also love her little speech about the two of them being inevitable, like he’s a part of her. It cements their relationship as something that is forever, and not something that she decided against, even though she now suspects she’s gay.
Thank you! I remember watching this when it first aired like "But..she didn't actually make a choice, Oz had to leave AGAIN!" A bit of a sticking point for me, but I actually found it compelling in that it leaves one to wonder what the choice would've been had there been a choice to make...if that makes sense?
I think it is amazing how you always know why I feel something about an episode of Buffy, while I don´t. I just think: "This episode should be great, but somehow it doesn't quite work for me." Then I watch your videos and I say: "That's why!"
I think Willow does choose by not asking Oz to stay. I think her problem was mostly how to tell Oz that she has feelings for Tara. Of course she loves Oz but I always felt that she *knows* she will choose Tara at the end, and it's telling Oz that seems to be hard for her. She tells Tara "I know what he *meant* to me" "And here comes the thing I *wanted* most of all..". She knows it's past. That's how it looked like to me and i'm a WillOz shipper *heartbreak*. The second Oz figures it out he realises there is no choice to be made here and leaves. The choice was made for her not by him leaving but by him finding out about Tara. Remember he did ask Xander if she was seeing someone, the implication being that he didn't want to come between her and her new relationship.
Yours and Shan's vids are the ones I always hope to see when I open youtube. Don't worry, my Mum didn't cry when I told her I was an Atheist, but she was not happy at all, it s something a lot of people go through.
Is it bad that I just wanted to leave the Initiative stuff out altogether? I think you were right about the fandom - wide "Riley Allergy." And if any episode is proof that Willow is actually bisexual...it's this one.
The bi erasure of Willow's character is probably the thing I hate most about any of the Scoobies. It doesn't decrease her love for Tara if she comes out as bi. If she was able to fall in love with and have a strong physical attraction to Oz, how can that all be vetoed by her being gay? I remember in one episode Willow said something along the lines of "Gay now!" as though that's how sexuality works.
be careful with your friends if they say they're gay and have had a serious relationship with a person of the opposite sex. You might do more harm then good by not believing them - take it from me. I am a lesbian who's had a two year, serious relationship with a guy in high school. Much like Willow. If my friends wouldn't have believed that I was gay, it would have hurt me immensely.
Honestly, I would hve agreed with you, but after watching many Rantasmo videos, I guess I can kinda see the point of a self-identified lesbian being able to fall in love with guys. Basically considering sexual orientation as a spectrum, there are people who are mostly attracted to one of the sexes, that they prefer to identify with that, rather than calling themselves bi for having some attraction to the other sex. There are many people who consider themselves bi but than add that they are so much more attracted to their opposite sex, they might as well call themselves straight (or gay if mostly attracted to same sex). If a girl, in order to find to find a guy that interests her, needs to meet 100, while girls is 1 in 10, why wouldn't she describe herself as a lesbian, even if there are a few guys who might be compatible with her? I have never seen Willow that way, but her becoming a lesbian instead of bi used to bother me more. Ultimately it's up to each individual to decide how they describe their sexual orientation, even if someone with the exact same level of attraction to each sex would describe themselves differently
Hailey I agree with some lesbian going through a phase of discovery, but I think you are being a bit unfair as to why people insist she's bi instead of lesbian, it's not just because bi representation but because she was in love with Xander for yearss, and she dated Oz - a pretty serious relationship, and I guess she becoming a lesbian can be seen as "invalidating" those. Was it compulsory heterosexuality or actual feelings? It seemed like the latter. There are a lot of lesbians who had relationships with men before assuming that figuring themselves out, some pretty serious that last for years, but because we almost never actually meet those people and just hear the stories, people tend to assume there were no real feelings, and it was just pressure to fit in within a society who expects hetero relationships, even if that's not the reality entirely. For many people, Willow was the first they "met" who had a serious relationship with a guy and had been in love with another and then came out as a lesbian. I think Willow is the one who can define herself, but I can see why some people find it hard to process her "becoming" a lesbian
@@wribit I'd believe that a friend of mine is gay if they come out and I'd support them but in Willow's case she's a fictional character who was obviously in love with Oz and she was physically very attracted to him.
The fact that Oz talked to Xander before going to see Willow hints at a stronger friendship that they might have had than we tend to see. Xander was also the first one to greet Oz. I like to think that after highschool, the two of them actually bonded more - I would have liked to see some more of their conversations - like the Superman bit in (I think) Helpless.
Willow coming out in this episode helped me come out. Seeing this episode on TV when I was in High School was an amazing experience, the next day at school I remember people talking about this episode, a lot of them were gay bashing Willow...that was in 2000.
I've been binging these reviews and enjoying them, so thank you for this content! I wanted to comment on your complaint about how the tension in the Oz/Tara/Willow triangle was problematic and could have been done better. You're right, it might have been a better story if Willow had spoken her truth and shown her power, and it probably would have been more satisfying. But the way they did it is still true to her character: Willow started life in the series as a shrinking violet, uncomfortable with conflict and feeling unworthy to pursue what she wanted. Here she's confronted with a situation in which she desperately wants two things simultaneously, but she can only have one of them. She's shown as doing what we all do periodically, which is backslide. Old Willow returns and is frozen by decision paralysis. Mature, powerful Willow would resolve this by taking a deep breath and jumping, but this is the return of young, shy Willow who doesn't know how to stand up for herself. If these choices hadn't surrounded two people whom she desperately loves and respects it might have been easier to put on her big girl panties and get it over with, but she desperately wants to please both and she doesn't want to lose either. What if she can get Oz back? Can she keep Tara at the same time? How can she make this impossible choice? The fact that the second plot was running parallel to this one means they didn't do as good a job exploring this and showing Willow's growth in dealing with this regression and moving forward. You're not wrong that it wasn't as strong an episode as it could have been. But I don't think they were mistaken in showcasing how people can revert to old habits when they feel trapped.
I was watching the episode and I feel like maybe our interpretations of the ending are a bit different. I do feel like Willow made a choice, that's always the impression I have when I watch the episode, the thing is that she saying "I'm dating Tara" to Oz is elipsed because we already know that's what she said, because all the characters already know it and the scenes before that made that clear already. She explains to Oz that now is not their time before he gets to tell her he's not staying, so she does make a choice, it's just not overly dramatic which also makes sense as some life discussions are not dramatic either. Anyway, I'm open to debate.
I thought Willow's lack of decisiveness was a very apt reflection of where her arc is at, at this point in the series. She very rarely makes choices at this point without the aid of magic. Her only real moment upto this point of making a hard choice that affects the direction of herself and the others, is her choice to forego an ivy league school and remain in Sunnydale to help Buffy fight. It's not until much later, s7, that Willow has to start to make hard choices again. Her behaviour in this episode is very revealing of her character at this point. She is unable to take a decisive action because she is unable to see herself as a worthy agent, instead waiting to be validated by either Tara or Oz. This is further revealed in her dream sequence later this season, when dream Tara tells her everyone already knows her secret. Is this secret being gay or about her insecurity and shaky moral core. Does she really believe that she is good? We've seen something throughout with Willow that flashes subtly from time to time. It is the same moral uncertainty that plagues Jonathan, and like him, a reaction to bullying and trauma. The trauma becomes internalized and manifests as the desire for the world and those in it to be malleable and changeable. For one's fantasies to be realized. Both Willow and Jonathan achieve this through Magic. It is a metaphor for the power of female sexuality but also a metaphor for those who are bullied achieving power. The show is asking and demonstrating how those who are abused become abusers, of themselves and others. We've seen before and will see later that Willow is not a subjective actor excercising choice from her internal conflict and growth but someone who takes shortcuts. Oz leaving again, succumbing to the 'male' canine wolf nature, is her shortcut to Tara. It is only much later that Willow learns to make hard choices and it comes with loss and an inability to shortcut around it. It is only when she faces this 'secret' about herself, her feeling of being the 'sideman' or more accurately Buddy's moral inferior that she finally grows etc. cut to Goddess scene. Something that is never explicitly shown, except for a brief exchange between Buffy and Willow in s6 and is so obvious, rewatching the series, is that Willow must have asked herself. What if it had been me, would I be good enough? And here again we see that question, even though the set up is that the choice is hers between Tara and Oz. Am I good enough? The plot answers this question for her and she never actually has to choose, never has to face the possibility of rejection, either by Tara, or by risking loving Oz again only for him to leave.
> It's not until much later, s7, that Willow has to start to make hard choices again. She made choices that were hard in the sense of being difficult to execute in S6 between eps. 8 and 18. She chooses who to let into her life and who not to in 6x12 (although maybe that wasn't a hard choice). And she had to choose whether to focus on victim vs. perpetrator in 6x19/6x20. > knows her secret. Is this secret being gay or about her insecurity and shaky moral core. Clearly it's that she cried over the broken yellow crayon. Okay, seriously, in her coming out scene I sensed that she had to push herself a bit to come out to Buffy, and she's still a bit worried in 4x20 with "you can't handle Tara being my girlfriend". But her friends accept Willow's sexuality and they embrace Tara as a Scoobie; this is shown strongly in Family (5x6) which granted is after restless, but I figure Willow will have picked up on the Scoobies being accepting of Tillow. Willow reverts to her 1x1 dress In Restless; her insecurities go _all_ the way back. The yellow crayon incident is stuff that runs deep and has festered for long. I figure it's the yellow crayon thing.
Firstly, I just discovered your channel & loving it. The other thing with Oz returning, there seems to be a sense of entitlement from Oz, it seems like he thinks he can get back with Willow automatically just because she said no to seeing anyone.
Love it! Thanks for this gift of a video. I was smiling the whole time. Oz and Willow in their fluffy coats was perfect. They both like their fluff. (With him it's a bit less of a choice than for her...). And when she starts dating Tara officially, her style stops being fluffy and becomes more flowy and Mother Earthy to match Tara.
i really love how buffy handles willow coming out to her - she's startled at first because it's such a serious thing that she probably wasn't expecting and it takes her a bit to process it, but she realizes pretty quickly that it's still the exact same willow, her best friend who trusts her enough to share this with her, and that willow has enough emotional stress going on already without having to add to the "what if she doesn't accept me or wants to make a super big deal out of it" worries that always go along with making the decision to come out to someone. before i was publicly out i always hoped that everyone would react to me the same way buffy did to willow.
It's funny but I grew up warching Buffy in high school. I had just moved to a new state junior year and I had no friends. As sad as it sounds this show was like my friends. It helped me get through many rough periods throughout my life. When I finally made my own friend group and even now some 20 years later I know very few people that loved this show or even watched. But since watching your guide and reading the comments I now realize I am not alone in seeing this show for the amazing art that it is and how many like myself was spoken to at times directly in the stories of Buffy and her intrepid Scoobies! 💖😊😍
I so agree with you about Willow not making a choice. I always believed it was because he would come back again. In fact, I just knew he would be back in the series finale if not before. I thought the interjection of Kennedy was a mistake. Willow loved Oz because he was Oz. Willow loved Tara because she was Tara. Kennedy was a fling not a forever. Oz should have come back to help Willow through the pain regardless of what happened between them as a couple. That was Willow and Oz.
om-this frustrates me SO much. Why can EVERYONE have multiple partners, but Kennedy is "a fling"? 🙍 Literally: Spike had Dru, Harm, & Buffy. Angel had Darla, Buffy, & Nina. Xander had Cordy, Willow, & Anya. GILES had Jenny, SEX with Joyce, & Olivia. BUFFY HAD: Angel, Parker, Riley, AND Spike! Willow had Oz, Tara, & Kennedy-but she doesn't count. Seriously, pls explain to me why *EVERYONE* could date other ppl, (ESP. Giles dating after Jenny's *death* ) but Willow HAD to remain alone after Tara's death. i'll wait. ~🌈
@@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165 Well, for one thing Kennedy is (by her own admission) an insufferable brat. She's unpleasant to watch, she doesn't have a damn thing in common with Willow, and forcing her in so that the show could "prove" that Willow was really gay and Tara wasn't just her one exception felt like a disservice to Willow as a character and to Tara's memory.
I detest Kennedy and while I adore Oz I am kinda glad they didn't fall into the way too common "queer female character's relationship endgame will always be with a guy, usually an ex" trope (I am assuming you were referring to Oz and Willow getting back together, if not: my apologies for the misunderstanding). I believe that was also the writers intention behind giving Willow Kennedy as her new LI; to avoid that trope (as misguided as that was, considering how awful Kennedy as a character was). Personally I think they should just have allowed Willow to grieve and stay single for the last season.
Am I the only one who would've loved to see a Faith/Willow casual fling in S7? Would pay off S3 Faith getting all hungry and horny spending her nights with Buffy, if you know what I mean ;-)
This episode is full of consequential choices, though, that for me made it very satisfying. Willow chose to come out to Buffy and commit to a relationship with tara, oz chose to leave because he realized he couldn't control his wolf response around the woman he still loved... and probably more, but I haven't seen the episode in a while. I like this episode a lot, though, because it's great to see oz one last time and because it ends on a happy willow note (I'm so with you on loving them both). Apparently not all that you want, but I'm very happy with it.
This, more than anything, is the episode I love and cling to through all the "But I'm gay now!" and "Willow, you're a gay woman, you're only attracted to gay women!" and "I'm gay, I don't want the boys" and whatever else bisexuality erasure they try to force down our throats through the rest of the show. This makes it glaringly evident that - and let me be as clear as possible - WILLOW WAS IN LOVE WITH BOTH OZ AND TARA. BOTH A MAN AND A WOMAN. Sure, she moved on from Oz and then fell in love with Tara, but that doesn't mean she wasn't actually in love with him and it was "just a phase" or whatever. I do know it was the 90s and whatever wlw representation we could get is basically miraculous, and Willow and Tara *are* an amazing, fantastic couple that represent great strides for representation and lgbtq+ rights, but bi erasure is still real, and what I mean is, specifically, not the Tara/Willow relationship, or Willow's choices in romantic partners, but the outright explicit "gay now" and "a woman who loves a woman cannot possibly love any men" thing they started doing later (or the reverse, for Buffy, in which "a woman who loves a man cannot possibly love any women" but that's whole other conversation for another time). Through all the things it does well, BTVS fails in that regard. BUT in this episode, they never once diminish Willow's relationship with Tara or with Oz when in comparison to each other. It's made evident she cares greatly for both. I applaud this episode in that regard, but not the rest of the show.
Some women do have fulfilling relationships with men before they come to terms with their homosexuality. It's not always as clear cut or simple. But I agree: Willow should have been depicted as being bi but considering how much they had to fight to just depict her as being gay, no way the suits would have allowed her to be bisexual. Heck, that is still an issue to this day. They did it even worse in the comics where Buffy sleeps with another Slayer (unfortunately not Faith whom they decided to have literally state she's totally only into men 🙄) and instead of having it be Buffy maybe accept she might not be as straight as she thought she was and likely bisexual, they basically have her alongside Kennedy and Willow go "Buffy's no homo!" on the Slayer she slept with. Yeah.... 😐
Way late to the party, but I wouldn't say a werewolf attack on the same night is contrived since he specifically timed his return so he could show Willow his news on a night with a full moon. Other werewolves would be active during that time.
They weren’t even werewolves, the Initiative just assumed they were and they fit the vague description. But they had horns, and werewolves in this universe don’t ever have those.
1:45 Riley going into "nice guy" mode there with his "Willow should have been into nice guys like me and not "dangerous" guys like Oz." It's also more of his naive black and white "All humans are good and all supernatural beings are evil because they're not human" thing.
I hear that mere exposure is one of the best antidotes to bigotry. Riley backpedaled on his bigotry when he discovered that some of his best friends are werewolves. By the way, I've noticed that Riley scales back his bigotry in exactly the episode where Willow's new same-sex relationship is put front and center. What a coinci-tentionality.
I think Whedon has established that he doesn't view catharsis as necessary. He likes to leave some things open ended. As far as the Willow/ Oz or Willow/Tara aspect I don't think that was really the point. This was really about Willow coming to terms with who she is. It was a way to let the audience know that Willow isn't dabbling and that her relationship with Tara is serious and real. Yes she loved Oz and she loves Tara but the real choice is whether she is going to live authentically as a gay woman or pretend to be something she's not.
I like that. I just wish that the plot had been a little more structured around that idea and managed to deliver a more satisfying wrap-up episode for Oz in that case. I still think it might've delivered on what you're describing a little more successfully if she had said as much to Oz rather than having the scene in the hallway where Oz attacked Tara. I do enjoy this episode, it just feels like there were several missed opportunities the way they set it up.
My parents were relieved when I said I was an atheist, lol. I remember being surprised--and later I loved that they hid their beliefs and encouraged me to explore what I believe. Sorry to hear it was tense for you. Too many Americans think religiousness is the same as morality. I think it's clear you turned out pretty well! You're a smart, open-minded good guy.
I really liked the set up for Riley's transformation. I never saw his comment about "the guy's a student, I know him," as suggesting that torturing Oz was bad because he was someone Riley knew. I think that it was just intensifying the moment by contrasting the blatant disregard of the people in the Initiative with Riley's compassion. Riley's mention that Oz was a student was simply an attempt to humanize him and put the scientists' actions in context; I think that Riley's change hinges on the fact that Oz was a *person,* not that he was Oz.
I actually think that buffy being all woo for the hoo with oz having overcome the werewolf, may have something to do with her own experience with a certain mopey ex boyfriend with a monster side that also left because of his nature got on the way of the relationship, and while it was possible for oz to control his inner monster, it wasn't like that for captain brooding trench coat . Is a small detail and I know Is more that a little stretch the compare Oz to Angel, but i think is kind of a neat detail and makes Buffy's reaction be more than just the fact that the writers overlook the problem with how Oz left and ended things with Willow.
honestly, i felt like it undercut his character a bit. i mean he was always known as the composed member of the scoobies and yet, the minute he finds out what's been going on, he just goes berserk
But you gotta realize Oz, cool as he may be, is emotionally open when it comes to Willow. Naturally, it's easy to understand whether it be protecting Willow, worrying, or being jealous, that he would have such a strong emotional response. The entire time he was away, it was in order for him to be in control for himself and Willow as well. For him to find out that she's seeing someone else and that it's serious, well obviously it would be really difficult for someone such as Oz, being werewolf and all, to maintain composure.
Great review Ian :) I was 12 when I first saw Buffy and the WillowTara relationship really helped me with my own bisexuality! I love Oz as much as everyone else but it was amazing for a major tv show to put a lesbian relationship in the mix. I hate Riley..... he’s just ..... ewwwwy.
I don't actually mind that Willow never explicitly rejects Oz and chooses Tara (though, as pointed out in other comments, she has made smaller, implicit choices that led her here, and Oz coming back was simply her confronting and owning up to them) because I love all three characters so much, that I have no issue with not one of them being "to blame" or having a conflict. It's resolved peacefully, because that's how Oz, Willow AND Tara all usually do things (Oz's wolfing out excluded) so it's actually in character and, I think, very natural for them
> 9:53 T: you have to be with the person you love // W: I am > PotN: Not a choice, a description: Willow is with someone she loves Tara used the _definite_ singular, as in _the_ person you love. From "I am", I infer that Willow is not just with _a_ person she loves but with _the_ (one and only) person she loves. She has gone from "it's complicated, because of [options and I have to make a choice]" to "I have chosen you", at some point between her coming out scene and this scene.
I just totally ADORE this episode, Ian! I sorta get where you're coming from, but for once I think you might be overanalyzing it. I agree with Nada Sal down below in the comments. He says, "I think her problem was mostly how to tell Oz that she has feelings for Tara." Yep. They stayed up all night talking, and Tara's name never came up once. (This is apparent when Oz goes all wolfy--"Her scent is all over you...wait, are you WITH her?!" (I may be paraphrasing here.) . Willow NEVER says she loves Oz NOW. (As Nada quotes: "She tells Tara 'I know what he MEANT to me.") . Part of the problem, I think, is that none of the other Scoobies really knows about Tara up until this point. They all just think she's someone from Willow's campus coven; they have no idea how intimate the pair have become. (The one time Willow attempted to introduce Tara to Buffy--well, we all know how that turned out--it actually being Faith, I mean.). It's understandable--Willow herself says at one point that she just wants to keep their relationship to themselves. (Sorry, I don't remember exactly when she says this--was it this episode?). She just wants to enjoy it as something she owns, something that's happened to her, not anything that's connected to Buffy or Xander or "high school." It's Willows first stand for independence. (Gee, I hope I'm making sense here.) Bottom line is Willow never actually has to TELL Oz, because, as the always independent thinker, the one who was part of the Scoobies and yet not, he sees it before anyone else.
Three years late, but I'm going to offer a thought on the Willow choice thing. However, rather than offer an in-universe thought, I'm going to go with authorial intent. I think the intent was that Willow makes a choice, but that the writers failed to properly express it due to the characters involved. Based on the way Oz's loss of control is framed, I think his statement at the end is oversimplified Oz-speak for the actual problem because his statement is factually wrong. He was with Willow during the full moon and didn't change - she is not the catalyst for his wolf. Instead, I think what Oz was supposed to communicate that Willow being with someone else was the catalyst. If Willow had chosen Oz, then he could have controlled the wolf and stayed with her. Because she chose Tara (by sleeping with her, as implied by Willow's scent on Tara, whereas she only talked with Oz), Oz lost control. He can't be around her when she's with someone other than him. Anyway, I think that's what the authors were going for. It's what the text implies for me, even if the text fails to properly state it. And again, I think it's Oz's and Willow's verbal patterns that cause this. Oz because the writers like keeping his lines short, hence the obviously untrue comment about Willow - it was an overly condenses summary that left out important information. Likewise, I think that the smell comment was suppose to indicate that Willow made her choice through actions, but since Willow never confirms this through any dialogue due to her verbal style being very stream-of-consciousness, it's only subtext rather than text. If that's the case, then while the writers did err here, it was due to not making their intent clear rather than setting up a choice and then not having the character make it. That's how I read it, anyway.
I agree that eventually it didn't matter what Willow choses because Oz decides to leave anyway but there is a choice made and it's reflect on the way she speaks to him in the van. He says he is leaving right after they describe how they cannot be together now but they are in each other's heart. And, still, even if she didn't have to make a choice (which she did), I don't really get why... why can't she stay in love with both of them? I guess the answer is "convention"...
![Restless [SPOILERS] • S04E22 • TPN's Buffy Guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g_T3hboQQyM/mqdefault.jpg)
Good comment from Patron Michael Mann that I wanted to share: I did have one "yes, but..." point about the plot convenience of having a werewolf attack just as Oz came back to town, though. Based on the dialogue when Oz and Willow are under the full moon outside her dorm, it seems that he intentionally chose that time of the month to return and demonstrate his ability to control the wolf. It's not a coincidence that a werewolf attack would be possible on that particular night - just that there would be a mishap on that particular full moon. Given the frequency of paranormal/underworldly happenings in Sunnydale on a regular basis, I think the probability of a werewolf getting loose this month is sufficiently high to suspend my disbelief.
well as a wise man once said " i wear the cheese , the cheese does not wear me."i think that is something Oz would've taken into consideration .
Dear PotN, I have a question. I've had a line of your dialogue running through my head every now and again about something you said about Willow. Something like "We get a glimpse of that darkness when the light goes out." You were referring to a grounding force in Willow's life (either Tara or Oz) and I was just wondering if you knew where in your content you said that. It's just been bugging me
It’s still a coincidence that they resembled werewolves, but the creatures that attack the team are just a type of demon. It’s a contrivance but having them be werewolves would’ve been just too big a contrivance. You can tell they’re demons as they have horns and werewolves never do in this universe.
Also, Willow does in fact make a choice in this episode. She might not say it in dialogue, but it is there and very, very obvious. She tells Oz in softer terms that they are pretty much over and that she moved on, and tells Tara in the final scene that she’s with who she loves.
It’s subtle, but it’s not THAT subtle. I can tell pretty clearly from the dialogue that it was the intent here, not some ambiguous lack of choice that to be honest is a stretch.
Isn't the conversation regarding Miss Kitty Fantastico the one where Willow initially assumes that Tara wants a cat as a familiar, but Tara clarifies that she means as a pet? I love that moment: Willow thinking that the cat is supposed to be a use for magic, while Tara just wants a cat to have a pet for them. Willow's focus on the magic versus Tara's focus on the normal; sure, Tara's got magic, too, but she also is capable of seeing things in terms of "normal", to maybe put it badly, whereas Willow... Look, basically, I think it's decent foreshadowing of future conflicts for them, showing how Willow's focus is on the magic, increasingly, while Tara's like, "No, I just want to have a pet for us--nothing magical, just a normal pet."
Rewatching the series the 4th time around paying attention to how often Willow tries to get a quick solution to a normal life problem rather than facing it head on and how much she ties her identity to being a spellcaster, it really stands out. I almost forgot about her thinking familiar rather than pet. Good catch!
And that's why I love Tara so much. Her, Willow, Fred and Spike are my favorite Buffy characters.
Indeed, Willow had tech as a more natural part of her, where as magic became a crutch for her instead. It wasn't until post-darkwillow that it became more of a natural part of her. She had to dip into the darkest depth of magical corruption before she could be saved from it lure and truly begin to make magic a part of her as a whole, rather than a lowkey addiction.... just one more cigarette before work, just a cup of coffee before waking up in full... the little addictions that are used to keep our daily lives going, for a lot of people.
I dun see it as a hard addiction tho, it's more like an inability to sleep so is on constant sleeping aides, or an addict towards gambling, etc.
Yes yes yes, I love the familiar/pet line here, underscoring how Tara has grown up with magic (mainly through her mother) and has a handle on it that Willow - at this stage - still lacks.
I actually like that it wasn’t a choice Willow had to make in the end, rather an organic growth of character. In the time Oz has been gone, Willow has had time to process and come to term with what happened, and I think she forgave Oz, hence not being mad at him for leaving. Oz, meanwhile, has focused so much energy into his wolf rehab - and we can safely assume it was partly, of not mostly, FOR Willow - in relative isolation. We tend to assume that things will stay in stasis when we leave a place, that’s why revisiting a childhood home can feel so weird. I don’t think it’s only Willow’s new relationship that throws Oz off, it’s the new EVERYTHING. Both Willow and Sunnydale evolved while Oz was gone, and he wasn’t able to evolve with it.
Great comment. I think Ian's analysis is convincing and well-articulated, but your view is basically how I view the episode as well.
I like MUCH of that in this episode and probably should have spent a little more time on it. The final Oz and Willow scene is loaded with a lot to say about love and loss. I just still feel like the way in which the story is structured is a problem. I will come back to some of it later on.
Passion of the Nerd Thanks for the reply!! Actually, something I forgot to mention previously - I really like this positive portrayal of falling out of love. They’re still friends, they still have an undeniable connection, but they’re not in love any more. And that’s okay. I can’t think of any other media I’ve seen that’s done that!
Edit: And one more thing, because apparently I have all the opinions about this episode! I don’t at all mind that Riley stops Oz’s experimentation because he knows him, for two reasons: firstly, I don’t think it even is just because of that, I think this is where Riley finally draws a line, but in order to stop the other soldiers he has to say something that they can relate to; secondly, that’s basically the reason why Angel didn’t get staked - because Buffy had a big ol’ lady boner for him!
She does make a choice though - she makes it clear that she isn’t going to be with Oz. She’s sweet about it and acknowledges that loving someone doesn’t just leave you even after months of them being absent, but she makes it absolutely clear.
It’s pretty damn clear actually from the final two scenes that Willow is choosing to be with Tara - some people just seem to need it to be said rather than the blatant inference that can be made.
One of many great things about BTVS is a generous view of romantic love: As far as we can see, Willow's adolescent love for Xander was real, her love for Oz was real, and her love for Tara was real, and there's no reason to think any of those are incompatible.
There is no love in a relationship that has rape involved.
@@RussophileAmethystTsarina30 I get where you're coming from, but you literally could not be more vague
@@RussophileAmethystTsarina30 what
@@RussophileAmethystTsarina30 ammm... what? can you please clarify?
@@RussophileAmethystTsarina30 is that in reference to spike? If so I think Spike genuinely did love buffy- but at the end of the day he was a demon, which is why he then went to get his soul
I just noticed that in the opening of this episode, Willow is wearing the sweater that Kathy borrowed and spilled ketchup on in Living Conditions. It's not really deeply relevant to the episode themes, but I love the little hint that Buffy is either getting over her selfishness or at least more willing to share with someone she deeply loves and wants to support.
Nah, I think Willow is making a choice subtextually. It happens this way because Oz is so non-verbal and intuitive. Once the veil is lifted (smelling Willow on Tara), the truth is obvious to him. This is who Willow is now. If she weren't, if she were still his, the wolf wouldn't be a problem. But things are the way they are, and he has to leave.
Most of the most important choices come from deep inside of us. They're not choices made consciously. What's important is Willow stops veiling who she is to the world and her friends. The end of the episode is cream, well-earned and richly enjoyable.
I like the way you've put it. I guess in that way the conflict isn't actually "Who will Willow choose" So much as it is "Will Willow come out to her friends". She's been hiding Tara from them for a while and although Faith recognized it instantly. (Personal belief it's because Faith is queer herself) no one else had a clue.
In that way the payoff isn't supposed to be Oz in the car, but instead Willow's "It's complicated because of Tara". Willow never really struck me all episode as feeling tempted to go back to Oz so much as sad as her hand was forced.
agreed! :)
It's an interesting point, and I agree mostly. But, I do think the wolf is still a problem. He thought he had it under control totally, and something set it off. This time it was losing Willow, but there is no way to know for sure that that's the only trigger.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is how I saw it too. Her choice didn't need to be said. She moved in. It was obvious in her behavior this whole episode. I LOVED her and Oz but... Come in..that chemistry with tarah was literally magical.
You beautiful tiny ginger... I snorted out an embarrassingly loud laugh right now, riding the bus home from work.
Aaaaaand now the little lady opposite is looking at me funny. Thank you, Ian.
That is what I'm here for.
In all the dozen dozen times I have watched this episode,
I had NEVER noticed Willow was holding a stuffed dog.
I was simply unable to look away from Alyson Hannigan’s face
for even the fraction of a second needed to register anything
but Willow’s conflict. Remarkable.
Maybe Willow didn't make a big dramatic choice in this episode on it's own, but what Oz noticed was that she had already chosen to move on. Oz's arrival also pushes her to come out to Buffy and after the closure (or as close to closure as anybody gets) of talking to Oz she throws herself more openly into her relationship with Tara. The episode shone such a light on what had changed in Oz's absence that it makes his presence uncomfortable in some ways, like somebody photoshopped him in. For me, it worked because she had already made so many choices, and the episode just had that sense of time moving people on, almost more than they want it to move them.
I agree. Willow is emotionally muted in much of the episode because Oz is an unwanted complication in her relationship with Tara. She's trying to find a way to express that to him that isn't hurtful. He loses control not because he smells her scent on Tara, but because he senses the psychic connection they have that he and Willow can't have. He and Willow both know that his leaving because he lost control is really a polite deception, that it's just a way for him to leave with dignity.
Beautifully stated
"More of a dog person myself" I CANNOT BELIEVE I DIDNT MAKE THAT CONNECTION TO OZ!! ._.
Wow, I always watched it as Willow making a choice, but you're right, she absolutely did not, at least not out loud. It's funny the things you see and then see differently. I also love that Buffy character moment "No, absolutely no to that question..." I wish I had a friend like Buffy Summers.
Also, I never felt throughout the entire episode that Willow and Tara's relationship was in danger at all
I agree, I just re-watched it, Willow didn't come across particularly torn, to me. She seemed more like somebody reaching acceptance of it being over.
Bornonthecusp
To be fair, maybe it was bc we all knew that Seth was only back for THAT episode. 😉
Btw, love your YT name: Buffy was also born on the cusp. i can't remember if she said "Cap born o. t. cusp of Aquarius or Aqua b. o. t. cusp of Capricorn" as a wickedly funny reply to: "What are you?" 😆😂😂😂✌💞
Maybe, I still wonder what his planned season 6 return would've been like! I heard he was inevitably going to be a source of tension for Willow and Tara.
Aww thank you! yesss, she totally does. She's a Capricorn on the cusp of Aquarius, I'm the next over on the cusp of Pisces. Gotta love some Buffy Summers wit.
She only doesn’t state the choice out loud. She still very much overtly makes that choice, she’s not a passive character in the story letting Oz decide. In the scene in his van she makes it perfectly clear they are over, it’s just with subtler dialogue than most people are used to from this sort of scene. In most TV, the characters would say ‘it’s over!’ and have some kind of drama over it too. On this show, it’s a lot more subtle.
Willow uses many more words to say it but she very much overtly tells Oz things are now over between them, she moved on, and to Tara that she is with who she loves. That’s a choice.
Willoz will never be forgotten 😞
They are way better than Tillow.
@@RussophileAmethystTsarina30 Cannot say I agree. Tillow is definitely my favorite pairing for Willow, but Willoz is a close second 😊
@@Khenfu_Cake Rapist apologist
There are no flawless Buffy episodes. I think this is a good one, mainly because I believe the emotional payoff of that last scene between Willow and Tara hits home, but also because I love Willow's "coming out" scene as well as the scene in the van where Oz says goodbye. Three huge emotional wallops in one episode? That's a good episode in my book, one of the best of season 4.
Hush and Once More With Feeling are VERY close to flawless. The Gift could be a distant third. That's really neither here nor there. Your comment just got me thinking.
BUT I tried very hard to suggest that the thrust of my commentary really had no bearing on the emotional resonance of those wonderful scenes. The episode has always felt like something was flat to me and I think it was the way the story was setup and structured.
*cough cough* The Body
So shut up Riley, Oh how those words sound good to me.
Right?! Total internet high five for Ian! ✋✋✋
2:51 okay, i get the "oh, Riley's chest is so hairless and weird" joke but... Spike and Angel also have very shaved bodies, why doesn't anyone made a big deal out of that out?
oh lmao is that what the arrows were suggesting?? I was so confused
@@boo5860 SAME lol, I literally paused the video and scrolled the comments to figure out what I was missing. Thanks for explaining @Little Fox !
I think maybe it’s due to the plastic-like badly done remaster of season 4. I always notice how plastic everyone looks in season 4 especially in the initiative scenes in the base. In the digital remaster they didn’t take the time to distinguish grain from skin texture so everyone has a weirdly smooth look to them. In the later seasons where we see spike shirtless and the same with the earlier seasons with Angel, I feel like everything has a more realistic look and in their shirtless scenes their skin doesn’t look like perfectly smooth plasticine skin. Atleast that’s why I think it’s appears more noticeable for Riley ( I’m pretty sure the remastered version isn’t the footage used in this video though)
Bye Seth Green.
Have fun shooting Austin Powers in Goldmember. And creating Robot Chicken. And marrying a model.
How could I forget about Family Guy?
And don't forget the Ninja Turtles!
Without a Paddle made me finally okay with Oz leaving
*sobs*
He was in "Restless" 😉
I absolutely love the last shot of this episode. It’s beautiful. And, "technically" begins my favorite relationship on the show.
The lighting in that scene is wonderful. Insanely romantic and lovely.
Couldn't agree more Ian.
Once More with Tension is my new head cannon alter name for Once More with Feeling.
I rarely disagree with you Ian, but Willow DOES make a choice. Tara's line was "No, I understand. You have to be with the person you love", to which Willow responds with "I am", implictly stating that SHE is the person she loves when adding the context of the choice she's been grappling with.
Love is not a choice, that's what ian is stating. She already knew that Tara was the answer, cause she loves her
Ian states clearly that the fact that Willow loves Tara doesn't exclude she loves Oz; on the contrary, is very likely she loves both. She'd probably have chosen Tara anyway, but she didn't have to in this episode.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ildelpra3846 if that’s what he was getting at, it was poorly articulated. Yes, love isn’t a choice but Willow makes it clear to Oz things are over and aren’t going back to the way things were.
Old comment but the scene is also worded the way it is due to them having to tap dance around the network restraints. Bizarre this video doesn’t even acknowledge that when its a fundamental influence on the entire construction of this relationship. This scene is Willow affirming to Tara that shes the person she loves and wants to be with in the strongest, clearest words the writers were able to get on screen at the time.
"Hide his "bait and tackle" hahaha fantastic! 🎣😳🤣🙈🐟
I binged all of your Buffy and Angel content in a weekend. I've only ever had to wait for this episode, and it was too long to cope.
Ahahahaha welcome to hell, my friend!
Yea this is one channel you subscribe and then forget for a month or two LOL welcome to the club
It becomes a pleasant surprise after a while and I've only been here for a month or so.
As someone whose been here since the beginning, welcome to the sweet torture.
HER SHIRT!!!!
C'mon, man, you can't just spring that on a person without warning!
I loved this episode, but i absolutely hated the whole Buffy and Riley conflict. Especially these lines:
BUFFY "But you sounded like Mr. Initiative. "Demons bad. People good."
RILEY "Something wrong with that theorem?"
BUFFY "Well, yeah. There's degrees of ..."
RILEY "Evil."
BUFFY "It's different with different demons. There's creatures... vampires, for example, that aren't evil at all."
It just made me suddenly realise what a hypocrite Buffy can be. So she blames Riley for thinking all demons are bad, but then goes out slaying vampires/random demons without even questioning that oh perhaps some of them might be peaceful.
I mean sure, we've seen good demons. Doyle, for instance. Now imagine this: early season 4 of Buffy. Doyle comes to Sunnydale for whatever reason and accidentally bumps into two aggressive drunken guys who are looking to start a fight. So they punch Doyle a couple of times, throw him to the ground, get out a knife. Doyle gets incredibly pissed off, changes into his demon form and begins to fight back. Few minutes later, Buffy happens to bump in the three of them. How does the situation look from her perspective? Two terrified guys screaming for help and helplessly trying to protect themselves from a mean green spiky demon! What does Buffy do? Question what's going on? No! Stake the mean green spiky demon, obviously.
This hasn't happened in the show, of course. But we don't know that. Maybe some of those demons Buffy killed had a really good reason to act aggressive. Or weren't being aggressive at all. Maybe it was a mixed up situation. Maybe the poor girl that mean vampire killed was an evil maniac who killed his parents. Buffy never questioned so we can't know for certain...
Little Fox
Brilliant! What a clever little fox you truly are!!
Aaaand this is why Angel is an important show. With its nuanced demon representation it's a much more mature side of the Buffyverse. For as smart as Buffy is, she still tends to operate in black and white, whereas Angel--the show about being an adult--is all about the moral gray.
I wonder if Angel shared any of his favourite philosophy books with Buffy while they were dating.
I’m pretty sure she was subtly talking about angel with the “vampires for example...” if you listen to the way she delivers the line...
Also later on she’s shown to be friends with Clem, a demon. She called out whistler for being a good demon (if not lazy), and then of course Anya. I think in this scene she was trying to show Riley the shades of gray.
I really dont think buffy has or would kill any "good" demons. "good" demons I think would make themselves apparent even in the midst of battle like the books of ascension demon and others mentioned. When there is any moral quandary it comes up like in the Thanksgiving episode. Or if a do-good-er gets killed mistakenly they would find out after the fact like with the Deputy Mayor (not that he was good) or Katerina. An investigation happens. If the demon or what ever was good it would of had a mission or people in search of that demon/person And would be discovered. I think it's just something you get a sense for in battle. and there there are times where you have go "better its bits then mine" if someone/something is attacking you you have a right to offend yourself.
not trying to sound argumentative just trying to assure your faith in Buffy ;)
Whedon was adamant about the demons in the show serving their original mission statement as a metaphor for impediments on the path to adulthood Angel introduced the moral ambiguity, which is our increasingly complex understanding of the world as we mature and develope in it hence his show dealing more with the journey of adulthood then the journey of arriving at it.
Even with the consistency of Btvs theme and its multidimensional characters, it is interesting no segment of the audience was ever led to identify with the demons as a symbol of marginalization and demonization because that could have been a unintended consequence.
"So, shut up Riley..."
This. This so much.
"I feel like some part of me will always be waiting for you. Like if I'm old and blue-haired and I turn the corner in Istanbul, and there you are. I won't be surprised... Because you're with me, you know?" If Willow shut the door completely on her relationship with Oz there probably would have been a bigger push back against her relationship with Tara at the time.
I never took that to mean there was a possibility of future romance just that their relationship will always be a part of her even if they spend their lives apart
For those of you who want to know what Oz did in Tibet read the Buffy comics Oz miniseries from 2002 and season 8 Retreat Part 2 from 2009.
The story involves Tibetan Monks, evil werewolves, lots of meditating, the drinking of much Butter Tea, and a woman named Bayarmaa.
They should have done a spin off about Oz in that aspect.
Always makes my night when you drop a video!
That lightning quick cut to Riley's "Oh" face when you mentioned his mommy issues killed me.
So much to love in this guide as always, and you really are such a great writer. There are some things I read differently, but I actually really like it when someone reads something I love differently. Especially when it's someone I respect. It challenges me to really look at why I read the thing the way I do and I've been doing that with this episode since your live tweet.
I think it's because I see this episode as being less about a choice than about the consequences of choices already made. Like Oz's wolf issues changing is kind of a literalizing of the fact that there isn't a place for him now because of his choices in Wild at Heart and since. Willow's love for Tara exists partly because she made a choice to move on. When Buffy chose to get serious with Riley it was inevitable that he would learn about Angel.
The thing about consequences is we can't always choose what they are, but we can choose how we react to them, how we handle the situation. How people do that shows a lot about there character, and that to me is the meat of the episode; who our characters are when faced with the consequences of their choices. Oz could have run off again, but instead chooses to talk things out so generously with Willow and that says so much about who he is. It says a lot about who Willow is that she avoids dealing with things or making a choice until that choice is taken from her. Anyway, I think that's why I love this one so much, I am always more interested in character than plot, so maybe I'm reading the plot wrong.
Love the guide as always, and I may be nearing 40 but those red arrows still make me giggle like a schoolgirl.
I like it.
Tough part about these reviews is my perspective is constantly evolving. There are a number that would be written differently from Season 1 and 2 now. I suppose I should embrace that as one of the BENEFITS of having to write essays like this one and that is getting to read and share in other people's perspectives. I enjoyed yours here.
Great video, as always!
As for the "Willow's choice" debate - I totally agree with the principles you state here, about the importance of choices in storytelling... And yet, emotionally, Willow's arc here DOES feel satisfying. And I put a great deal of weight on the emotional power of stories - if a story makes us feel something, then that story is doing something right, even if we don't understand how it's doing it.
So, I wonder why that final scene with Tara & Willow STILL feels satisfying, despite the very logical argument you raised against it... And I have a theory:
Willow's choice in this episode wasn't between being with Oz or being with Tara - her real choice was between fulfilling her romance with Tara, or keeping their relationship platonic.
It's easy to forget this, but Willow & Tara's relationship has NOT been shown as more than sub-textual until this point. We can theorize, but the fact remains that we haven't seen them do anything explicitly romantic with each other - they haven't even said "I love you" until this episode. And while people may theorize that they've done all this off-screen (due to WB censorship), I prefer to think that Willow & Tara were being just as subtextual with each other as the show was.
Therefore, Oz's return ended up serving as a catalyst for a REAL choice that Willow made here - the choice between remaining Tara's friend, or becoming Tara's girlfriend. That's the true choice that Willow makes at the end of the episode. And it's a choice that was set up AND paid off properly.
"You should be with the person you love."
"I am".
That's it, that's the choice. That's their first "I love you". That's Willow choosing to be Tara's girlfriend, and not just her friend.
As for Willow's OTHER conflict, about choosing between Oz & Tara - that was only a red herring. And given that the emotion of all these scenes WORKS, I'm gonna say that it was a successful red herring. This episode makes you think that it's a love-triangle story, when it's actually a coming-out story.
I like that interpretation and I think that is the way to watch the episode. I just don't think that that is the way the episode was written (if that makes any sense.) Willow keeping her sexuality private was set up through her not wanting to introduce Tara to the group - which has since been resolved. Since then they have not gotten back to the story of her "grappling" with it, which I think would be necessary to make the ending that was delivered here, [completely] satisfying. The conflict of this episode is not set up as her continuing to grapple with that or coming out to Buffy or any of that, but Oz vs Tara. Because of that, the episode has ALWAYS felt to me like something was missing (even before I put my finger on it with this viewing.) And if you insert Willow into the school scene for Tara, I think you still get ALL of the positive things you describe in your comment AND fix the problem I'm bringing up. No NEED for a red herring.
Each of those scenes ARE emotionally satisfying but they're enabled by SO MUCH previous content in the series. That doesn't really relate one way or another to the plot and storytelling strokes of this episode. Where the Wild Things Are has great scenes between Anya and Xander. And Behind Blue Eyes. That's inherited glow. The episode's story still leaves much to be desired. NMR is FAR better than WTWA. I'm just trying to make a point about storytelling. With this video, I'm not describing an episode that failed but one that missed an opportunity.
Very good point about the red herring being unnecessary! You're right, the drama could have probably been tighter/better without that. Thematic twists are a tricky thing to pull off properly, and sometimes it's better not to try...
I don't really agree with the "inherited glow" part. though. I think that, while this episode wasn't written PERFECTLY, it was still written well in a lot of aspects, and those scenes work due to that too. The inherited glow helps, but it's not ALL because of that.
But that's just arguing semantics, probably. You're definitely right about this episode not being as powerful as it can be.
But Oz knows Tara and Willow are friends because he met her in the morning - if she didn't smell intimately of Willow he wouldn't have freaked out.
2:59 thanks for that flash of Riley's... face... Always great to see.... (euggggh)
Everytime he puts it in there that screaming that ends with *WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING* immediately pops into my head
I do wish Seth Green came back later on at least once or twice.
He comes back once at the end of the season
I don't remeber that. What does he do?
He's in the finale, Restless, in Willow's dream
Yeah but that doesn't really count for me since it's just in a dream and we never see Oz as a character back on the show.
This is the one spot where I think Ian’s overarching frame of absurdist choice trips him up a bit.
Willow choosing between Oz & Tara is not the conflict in this ep, and I don’t think it’s what A.H. plays. The conflict is in her need to acknowledge and understand the choice she’s already made, and to communicate that to her friends, to Tara and to herself, and to deal with the consequences of that. This is a tough choice in itself because it involves risking rejection, and potentially causing pain. Dealing with consequences and not trying to paper them over is not a strength for Willow, as we will see repeatedly. Here Oz’s return is a catalyst forcing her to move forward, or, if you will, outward.
In other words, Willow DOES choose in this episode, just not in the Oz’s van scene (as beautiful as the callback to “Innocence” is). She chooses, quite bravely, in the dorm room with Buffy, and in Tara’s room at the end.
The structural problem with the episode is that Oz is also asked to catalyze the Riley / Initiative arc, which was already in a pointless loop, and just keeps spinning here. Those scenes feel mostly like an enlarged version of those Season 1 or 2 eps where the Master or Angel would wander in for a scene to remind us they exist.
It might be better that Willow didn't have to choose. I mean choosing between Oz and Tara is almost impossible!
You are the literal only reason I want to get patreon when I have more disposable income, I love your work so much it keeps me sane, and every buffy/angel vid you pump out has been having a positive impact on my shitty mental health for the last year and a half. Can't wait for the next one, much love from down under
#BeautifulTinyGinger
Getting closer and closer to Restless, I’m to excited!!
It’s so insane that you are only at season 4! We will be watching theses for at least another year before you get to the end.
I honestly wanna binge watch your season 5 episodes but you haven’t got there yet 😭.
Keep up the amazing work
The episodes where there is good raw material but it just doesn't run smoothly are the best ones for these videos. Picking it apart and looking for the creaking gears and why those don't fit for thematic of logic reasons.. you do that so well.
I think you need to not look at this episode in the context of what Willow chooses but in how she reacts to Oz leaving all over again. It’s sort of like catharsis. The first time she was broken, the second time she was ok. In a way I don’t see the episode as a choice between Tara and Oz (because in many ways that might invalidate the love she and Oz shared). It’s more of an episode about Willow’s growth and her recovery after their relationship ended, like a character arc parallel. It shows that she had actually gotten over Oz leaving before he arrived back in Sunnydale, even if she does still love him in a way.
I also love her little speech about the two of them being inevitable, like he’s a part of her. It cements their relationship as something that is forever, and not something that she decided against, even though she now suspects she’s gay.
Thank you! I remember watching this when it first aired like "But..she didn't actually make a choice, Oz had to leave AGAIN!" A bit of a sticking point for me, but I actually found it compelling in that it leaves one to wonder what the choice would've been had there been a choice to make...if that makes sense?
I think it is amazing how you always know why I feel something about an episode of Buffy, while I don´t.
I just think: "This episode should be great, but somehow it doesn't quite work for me." Then I watch your videos and I say: "That's why!"
I think Willow does choose by not asking Oz to stay. I think her problem was mostly how to tell Oz that she has feelings for Tara. Of course she loves Oz but I always felt that she *knows* she will choose Tara at the end, and it's telling Oz that seems to be hard for her. She tells Tara "I know what he *meant* to me" "And here comes the thing I *wanted* most of all..". She knows it's past. That's how it looked like to me and i'm a WillOz shipper *heartbreak*.
The second Oz figures it out he realises there is no choice to be made here and leaves. The choice was made for her not by him leaving but by him finding out about Tara. Remember he did ask Xander if she was seeing someone, the implication being that he didn't want to come between her and her new relationship.
@Nada Sal: Totally agree!!!!!
Yours and Shan's vids are the ones I always hope to see when I open youtube. Don't worry, my Mum didn't cry when I told her I was an Atheist, but she was not happy at all, it
s something a lot of people go through.
Jimmy Dark Ian and Shan are awesome.
Definitely.
And once more, you're doing a great job at understanding and speaking exactly how I feel about this episode - I've never been let down by this Guide.
THAT sounds like a challenge. :-)
I'mma let you know if it ever happens tho, no worries
WillOz and WillTara ... they both have my heart :)
Is it bad that I just wanted to leave the Initiative stuff out altogether? I think you were right about the fandom - wide "Riley Allergy."
And if any episode is proof that Willow is actually bisexual...it's this one.
The bi erasure of Willow's character is probably the thing I hate most about any of the Scoobies. It doesn't decrease her love for Tara if she comes out as bi. If she was able to fall in love with and have a strong physical attraction to Oz, how can that all be vetoed by her being gay? I remember in one episode Willow said something along the lines of "Gay now!" as though that's how sexuality works.
be careful with your friends if they say they're gay and have had a serious relationship with a person of the opposite sex. You might do more harm then good by not believing them - take it from me. I am a lesbian who's had a two year, serious relationship with a guy in high school. Much like Willow. If my friends wouldn't have believed that I was gay, it would have hurt me immensely.
Honestly, I would hve agreed with you, but after watching many Rantasmo videos, I guess I can kinda see the point of a self-identified lesbian being able to fall in love with guys. Basically considering sexual orientation as a spectrum, there are people who are mostly attracted to one of the sexes, that they prefer to identify with that, rather than calling themselves bi for having some attraction to the other sex. There are many people who consider themselves bi but than add that they are so much more attracted to their opposite sex, they might as well call themselves straight (or gay if mostly attracted to same sex). If a girl, in order to find to find a guy that interests her, needs to meet 100, while girls is 1 in 10, why wouldn't she describe herself as a lesbian, even if there are a few guys who might be compatible with her?
I have never seen Willow that way, but her becoming a lesbian instead of bi used to bother me more.
Ultimately it's up to each individual to decide how they describe their sexual orientation, even if someone with the exact same level of attraction to each sex would describe themselves differently
Hailey I agree with some lesbian going through a phase of discovery, but I think you are being a bit unfair as to why people insist she's bi instead of lesbian, it's not just because bi representation but because she was in love with Xander for yearss, and she dated Oz - a pretty serious relationship, and I guess she becoming a lesbian can be seen as "invalidating" those. Was it compulsory heterosexuality or actual feelings? It seemed like the latter.
There are a lot of lesbians who had relationships with men before assuming that figuring themselves out, some pretty serious that last for years, but because we almost never actually meet those people and just hear the stories, people tend to assume there were no real feelings, and it was just pressure to fit in within a society who expects hetero relationships, even if that's not the reality entirely.
For many people, Willow was the first they "met" who had a serious relationship with a guy and had been in love with another and then came out as a lesbian. I think Willow is the one who can define herself, but I can see why some people find it hard to process her "becoming" a lesbian
@@wribit I'd believe that a friend of mine is gay if they come out and I'd support them but in Willow's case she's a fictional character who was obviously in love with Oz and she was physically very attracted to him.
next episode "The Yoko Factor" is one of my favourite episodes in the season!!! I can't wait for your review on it.
Seriously, your comments makes me smile all the time.
The fact that Oz talked to Xander before going to see Willow hints at a stronger friendship that they might have had than we tend to see. Xander was also the first one to greet Oz. I like to think that after highschool, the two of them actually bonded more - I would have liked to see some more of their conversations - like the Superman bit in (I think) Helpless.
Such a touching episode
I always felt that some love stories are like that. And I loved this episode for not getting them closure. There was none...
Willow coming out in this episode helped me come out. Seeing this episode on TV when I was in High School was an amazing experience, the next day at school I remember people talking about this episode, a lot of them were gay bashing Willow...that was in 2000.
Joss Whedon originally wanted Willow to choose Oz if Seth Green decided to stick around. But because he didn't it went to Tara.
I've been binging these reviews and enjoying them, so thank you for this content!
I wanted to comment on your complaint about how the tension in the Oz/Tara/Willow triangle was problematic and could have been done better. You're right, it might have been a better story if Willow had spoken her truth and shown her power, and it probably would have been more satisfying. But the way they did it is still true to her character: Willow started life in the series as a shrinking violet, uncomfortable with conflict and feeling unworthy to pursue what she wanted. Here she's confronted with a situation in which she desperately wants two things simultaneously, but she can only have one of them. She's shown as doing what we all do periodically, which is backslide. Old Willow returns and is frozen by decision paralysis. Mature, powerful Willow would resolve this by taking a deep breath and jumping, but this is the return of young, shy Willow who doesn't know how to stand up for herself. If these choices hadn't surrounded two people whom she desperately loves and respects it might have been easier to put on her big girl panties and get it over with, but she desperately wants to please both and she doesn't want to lose either. What if she can get Oz back? Can she keep Tara at the same time? How can she make this impossible choice?
The fact that the second plot was running parallel to this one means they didn't do as good a job exploring this and showing Willow's growth in dealing with this regression and moving forward. You're not wrong that it wasn't as strong an episode as it could have been. But I don't think they were mistaken in showcasing how people can revert to old habits when they feel trapped.
I was watching the episode and I feel like maybe our interpretations of the ending are a bit different. I do feel like Willow made a choice, that's always the impression I have when I watch the episode, the thing is that she saying "I'm dating Tara" to Oz is elipsed because we already know that's what she said, because all the characters already know it and the scenes before that made that clear already. She explains to Oz that now is not their time before he gets to tell her he's not staying, so she does make a choice, it's just not overly dramatic which also makes sense as some life discussions are not dramatic either. Anyway, I'm open to debate.
“THEY DON’T HAVE PHONES IN TIBET YOU...beautiful tiny ginger. I can’t stay mad at Oz.”
Pure facts. Not a lie anywhere.
I thought Willow's lack of decisiveness was a very apt reflection of where her arc is at, at this point in the series. She very rarely makes choices at this point without the aid of magic. Her only real moment upto this point of making a hard choice that affects the direction of herself and the others, is her choice to forego an ivy league school and remain in Sunnydale to help Buffy fight. It's not until much later, s7, that Willow has to start to make hard choices again. Her behaviour in this episode is very revealing of her character at this point. She is unable to take a decisive action because she is unable to see herself as a worthy agent, instead waiting to be validated by either Tara or Oz. This is further revealed in her dream sequence later this season, when dream Tara tells her everyone already knows her secret. Is this secret being gay or about her insecurity and shaky moral core. Does she really believe that she is good? We've seen something throughout with Willow that flashes subtly from time to time. It is the same moral uncertainty that plagues Jonathan, and like him, a reaction to bullying and trauma. The trauma becomes internalized and manifests as the desire for the world and those in it to be malleable and changeable. For one's fantasies to be realized. Both Willow and Jonathan achieve this through Magic. It is a metaphor for the power of female sexuality but also a metaphor for those who are bullied achieving power. The show is asking and demonstrating how those who are abused become abusers, of themselves and others. We've seen before and will see later that Willow is not a subjective actor excercising choice from her internal conflict and growth but someone who takes shortcuts. Oz leaving again, succumbing to the 'male' canine wolf nature, is her shortcut to Tara. It is only much later that Willow learns to make hard choices and it comes with loss and an inability to shortcut around it. It is only when she faces this 'secret' about herself, her feeling of being the 'sideman' or more accurately Buddy's moral inferior that she finally grows etc. cut to Goddess scene. Something that is never explicitly shown, except for a brief exchange between Buffy and Willow in s6 and is so obvious, rewatching the series, is that Willow must have asked herself. What if it had been me, would I be good enough? And here again we see that question, even though the set up is that the choice is hers between Tara and Oz. Am I good enough? The plot answers this question for her and she never actually has to choose, never has to face the possibility of rejection, either by Tara, or by risking loving Oz again only for him to leave.
> It's not until much later, s7, that Willow has to start to make hard choices again.
She made choices that were hard in the sense of being difficult to execute in S6 between eps. 8 and 18. She chooses who to let into her life and who not to in 6x12 (although maybe that wasn't a hard choice). And she had to choose whether to focus on victim vs. perpetrator in 6x19/6x20.
> knows her secret. Is this secret being gay or about her insecurity and shaky moral core.
Clearly it's that she cried over the broken yellow crayon.
Okay, seriously, in her coming out scene I sensed that she had to push herself a bit to come out to Buffy, and she's still a bit worried in 4x20 with "you can't handle Tara being my girlfriend". But her friends accept Willow's sexuality and they embrace Tara as a Scoobie; this is shown strongly in Family (5x6) which granted is after restless, but I figure Willow will have picked up on the Scoobies being accepting of Tillow.
Willow reverts to her 1x1 dress In Restless; her insecurities go _all_ the way back. The yellow crayon incident is stuff that runs deep and has festered for long. I figure it's the yellow crayon thing.
OMG I've been waiting so long for this episode. Eeep, so happy. :D
Firstly, I just discovered your channel & loving it. The other thing with Oz returning, there seems to be a sense of entitlement from Oz, it seems like he thinks he can get back with Willow automatically just because she said no to seeing anyone.
Love it! Thanks for this gift of a video. I was smiling the whole time. Oz and Willow in their fluffy coats was perfect. They both like their fluff. (With him it's a bit less of a choice than for her...). And when she starts dating Tara officially, her style stops being fluffy and becomes more flowy and Mother Earthy to match Tara.
i really love how buffy handles willow coming out to her - she's startled at first because it's such a serious thing that she probably wasn't expecting and it takes her a bit to process it, but she realizes pretty quickly that it's still the exact same willow, her best friend who trusts her enough to share this with her, and that willow has enough emotional stress going on already without having to add to the "what if she doesn't accept me or wants to make a super big deal out of it" worries that always go along with making the decision to come out to someone. before i was publicly out i always hoped that everyone would react to me the same way buffy did to willow.
It's funny but I grew up warching Buffy in high school. I had just moved to a new state junior year and I had no friends. As sad as it sounds this show was like my friends. It helped me get through many rough periods throughout my life. When I finally made my own friend group and even now some 20 years later I know very few people that loved this show or even watched. But since watching your guide and reading the comments I now realize I am not alone in seeing this show for the amazing art that it is and how many like myself was spoken to at times directly in the stories of Buffy and her intrepid Scoobies! 💖😊😍
YESSSS!! Awesome review on one of my favorite episodes!
I so agree with you about Willow not making a choice. I always believed it was because he would come back again. In fact, I just knew he would be back in the series finale if not before. I thought the interjection of Kennedy was a mistake. Willow loved Oz because he was Oz. Willow loved Tara because she was Tara. Kennedy was a fling not a forever. Oz should have come back to help Willow through the pain regardless of what happened between them as a couple. That was Willow and Oz.
om-this frustrates me SO much. Why can EVERYONE have multiple partners, but Kennedy is "a fling"? 🙍 Literally:
Spike had Dru, Harm, & Buffy. Angel had Darla, Buffy, & Nina. Xander had Cordy, Willow, & Anya. GILES had Jenny, SEX with Joyce, & Olivia. BUFFY HAD: Angel, Parker, Riley, AND Spike! Willow had Oz, Tara, & Kennedy-but she doesn't count. Seriously, pls explain to me why *EVERYONE* could date other ppl, (ESP. Giles dating after Jenny's *death* ) but Willow HAD to remain alone after Tara's death. i'll wait. ~🌈
@@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165 Well, for one thing Kennedy is (by her own admission) an insufferable brat. She's unpleasant to watch, she doesn't have a damn thing in common with Willow, and forcing her in so that the show could "prove" that Willow was really gay and Tara wasn't just her one exception felt like a disservice to Willow as a character and to Tara's memory.
How can rape and mind rape in a selfish way can be interpreted as love by you people? Have you not watched Season 6?
I detest Kennedy and while I adore Oz I am kinda glad they didn't fall into the way too common "queer female character's relationship endgame will always be with a guy, usually an ex" trope (I am assuming you were referring to Oz and Willow getting back together, if not: my apologies for the misunderstanding).
I believe that was also the writers intention behind giving Willow Kennedy as her new LI; to avoid that trope (as misguided as that was, considering how awful Kennedy as a character was).
Personally I think they should just have allowed Willow to grieve and stay single for the last season.
Am I the only one who would've loved to see a Faith/Willow casual fling in S7? Would pay off S3 Faith getting all hungry and horny spending her nights with Buffy, if you know what I mean ;-)
This episode is full of consequential choices, though, that for me made it very satisfying. Willow chose to come out to Buffy and commit to a relationship with tara, oz chose to leave because he realized he couldn't control his wolf response around the woman he still loved... and probably more, but I haven't seen the episode in a while. I like this episode a lot, though, because it's great to see oz one last time and because it ends on a happy willow note (I'm so with you on loving them both). Apparently not all that you want, but I'm very happy with it.
Yay one of my favourite shows from one of my favourite TH-cam's and on my 18th birthday woop
happy birthday
Happy Birthday!
congratulations!
Congratulations, good to see young people are still watching!
Happy Birthday
Absolutely love these videos, keep up the great work 😊
This, more than anything, is the episode I love and cling to through all the "But I'm gay now!" and "Willow, you're a gay woman, you're only attracted to gay women!" and "I'm gay, I don't want the boys" and whatever else bisexuality erasure they try to force down our throats through the rest of the show. This makes it glaringly evident that - and let me be as clear as possible - WILLOW WAS IN LOVE WITH BOTH OZ AND TARA. BOTH A MAN AND A WOMAN. Sure, she moved on from Oz and then fell in love with Tara, but that doesn't mean she wasn't actually in love with him and it was "just a phase" or whatever. I do know it was the 90s and whatever wlw representation we could get is basically miraculous, and Willow and Tara *are* an amazing, fantastic couple that represent great strides for representation and lgbtq+ rights, but bi erasure is still real, and what I mean is, specifically, not the Tara/Willow relationship, or Willow's choices in romantic partners, but the outright explicit "gay now" and "a woman who loves a woman cannot possibly love any men" thing they started doing later (or the reverse, for Buffy, in which "a woman who loves a man cannot possibly love any women" but that's whole other conversation for another time). Through all the things it does well, BTVS fails in that regard.
BUT in this episode, they never once diminish Willow's relationship with Tara or with Oz when in comparison to each other. It's made evident she cares greatly for both. I applaud this episode in that regard, but not the rest of the show.
Some women do have fulfilling relationships with men before they come to terms with their homosexuality. It's not always as clear cut or simple. But I agree: Willow should have been depicted as being bi but considering how much they had to fight to just depict her as being gay, no way the suits would have allowed her to be bisexual. Heck, that is still an issue to this day.
They did it even worse in the comics where Buffy sleeps with another Slayer (unfortunately not Faith whom they decided to have literally state she's totally only into men 🙄) and instead of having it be Buffy maybe accept she might not be as straight as she thought she was and likely bisexual, they basically have her alongside Kennedy and Willow go "Buffy's no homo!" on the Slayer she slept with.
Yeah.... 😐
Way late to the party, but I wouldn't say a werewolf attack on the same night is contrived since he specifically timed his return so he could show Willow his news on a night with a full moon. Other werewolves would be active during that time.
They weren’t even werewolves, the Initiative just assumed they were and they fit the vague description. But they had horns, and werewolves in this universe don’t ever have those.
1:45 Riley going into "nice guy" mode there with his "Willow should have been into nice guys like me and not "dangerous" guys like Oz." It's also more of his naive black and white "All humans are good and all supernatural beings are evil because they're not human" thing.
Someone disregarding their own bigotry when it concerns somebody they know is incredibly realistic though
I hear that mere exposure is one of the best antidotes to bigotry. Riley backpedaled on his bigotry when he discovered that some of his best friends are werewolves.
By the way, I've noticed that Riley scales back his bigotry in exactly the episode where Willow's new same-sex relationship is put front and center.
What a coinci-tentionality.
l love this episode. Lots of feels because the acting is so good and the stories have been built so well. Willow/Oz
Agree one thousand percent about being disappointed Willow didn't actually make a choice. Totally saying everything I thought about this episode.
"That's MISS Kitty Fantastico, Mr. Ian; 'Mrs. Kitty Fantastico was my mother!" 😼
“Shut up ,Riley” 😆. “Of course she does” 🐕
FINALLY IAN YES I WAS WAITING FOR THIS
I think Whedon has established that he doesn't view catharsis as necessary. He likes to leave some things open ended. As far as the Willow/ Oz or Willow/Tara aspect I don't think that was really the point. This was really about Willow coming to terms with who she is. It was a way to let the audience know that Willow isn't dabbling and that her relationship with Tara is serious and real. Yes she loved Oz and she loves Tara but the real choice is whether she is going to live authentically as a gay woman or pretend to be something she's not.
I like that. I just wish that the plot had been a little more structured around that idea and managed to deliver a more satisfying wrap-up episode for Oz in that case. I still think it might've delivered on what you're describing a little more successfully if she had said as much to Oz rather than having the scene in the hallway where Oz attacked Tara.
I do enjoy this episode, it just feels like there were several missed opportunities the way they set it up.
My parents were relieved when I said I was an atheist, lol. I remember being surprised--and later I loved that they hid their beliefs and encouraged me to explore what I believe. Sorry to hear it was tense for you. Too many Americans think religiousness is the same as morality. I think it's clear you turned out pretty well! You're a smart, open-minded good guy.
I really liked the set up for Riley's transformation. I never saw his comment about "the guy's a student, I know him," as suggesting that torturing Oz was bad because he was someone Riley knew. I think that it was just intensifying the moment by contrasting the blatant disregard of the people in the Initiative with Riley's compassion. Riley's mention that Oz was a student was simply an attempt to humanize him and put the scientists' actions in context; I think that Riley's change hinges on the fact that Oz was a *person,* not that he was Oz.
Got class in the morning and 4 hours of sleep yet here I am
Thank you so much for another great review!
I actually think that buffy being all woo for the hoo with oz having overcome the werewolf, may have something to do with her own experience with a certain mopey ex boyfriend with a monster side that also left because of his nature got on the way of the relationship, and while it was possible for oz to control his inner monster, it wasn't like that for captain brooding trench coat . Is a small detail and I know Is more that a little stretch the compare Oz to Angel, but i think is kind of a neat detail and makes Buffy's reaction be more than just the fact that the writers overlook the problem with how Oz left and ended things with Willow.
honestly, i felt like it undercut his character a bit. i mean he was always known as the composed member of the scoobies and yet, the minute he finds out what's been going on, he just goes berserk
But you gotta realize Oz, cool as he may be, is emotionally open when it comes to Willow. Naturally, it's easy to understand whether it be protecting Willow, worrying, or being jealous, that he would have such a strong emotional response. The entire time he was away, it was in order for him to be in control for himself and Willow as well. For him to find out that she's seeing someone else and that it's serious, well obviously it would be really difficult for someone such as Oz, being werewolf and all, to maintain composure.
“They don’t have phones in Tibet…y-you beautiful, tiny ginger?!…I can’t stay mad at Oz.” *WHEEZE* 💀 I can’t either. XD
Um Ian you missed something very important... Spike in that army outfit 😍😍😍 😍 I’ll see myself out
So excited to see this video out!!
Great review Ian :) I was 12 when I first saw Buffy and the WillowTara relationship really helped me with my own bisexuality! I love Oz as much as everyone else but it was amazing for a major tv show to put a lesbian relationship in the mix. I hate Riley..... he’s just ..... ewwwwy.
I don't actually mind that Willow never explicitly rejects Oz and chooses Tara (though, as pointed out in other comments, she has made smaller, implicit choices that led her here, and Oz coming back was simply her confronting and owning up to them) because I love all three characters so much, that I have no issue with not one of them being "to blame" or having a conflict. It's resolved peacefully, because that's how Oz, Willow AND Tara all usually do things (Oz's wolfing out excluded) so it's actually in character and, I think, very natural for them
Okay, so I just goofed off work for quarter of an hour!! #PowerOfANewBuffyGuide
Loved the sneak-in of Rileys O-face! Very well done sir.
I have Ben waiting on u man lol. I can't wait to see the later seasons.
Finally a Buffy review.
> 9:53 T: you have to be with the person you love // W: I am
> PotN: Not a choice, a description: Willow is with someone she loves
Tara used the _definite_ singular, as in _the_ person you love. From "I am", I infer that Willow is not just with _a_ person she loves but with _the_ (one and only) person she loves. She has gone from "it's complicated, because of [options and I have to make a choice]" to "I have chosen you", at some point between her coming out scene and this scene.
I just totally ADORE this episode, Ian! I sorta get where you're coming from, but for once I think you might be overanalyzing it.
I agree with Nada Sal down below in the comments. He says, "I think her problem was mostly how to tell Oz that she has feelings for Tara."
Yep. They stayed up all night talking, and Tara's name never came up once. (This is apparent when Oz goes all wolfy--"Her scent is all over you...wait, are you WITH her?!" (I may be paraphrasing here.) .
Willow NEVER says she loves Oz NOW. (As Nada quotes: "She tells Tara 'I know what he MEANT to me.") . Part of the problem, I think, is that none of the other Scoobies really knows about Tara up until this point. They all just think she's someone from Willow's campus coven; they have no idea how intimate the pair have become. (The one time Willow attempted to introduce Tara to Buffy--well, we all know how that turned out--it actually being Faith, I mean.).
It's understandable--Willow herself says at one point that she just wants to keep their relationship to themselves. (Sorry, I don't remember exactly when she says this--was it this episode?). She just wants to enjoy it as something she owns, something that's happened to her, not anything that's connected to Buffy or Xander or "high school." It's Willows first stand for independence. (Gee, I hope I'm making sense here.)
Bottom line is Willow never actually has to TELL Oz, because, as the always independent thinker, the one who was part of the Scoobies and yet not, he sees it before anyone else.
For ONCE? I always assumed I'm overthinking everything. You're too kind, Mindy.
"They don't have phones in Tibet you.. beautiful tiny ginger " haha
Three years late, but I'm going to offer a thought on the Willow choice thing. However, rather than offer an in-universe thought, I'm going to go with authorial intent.
I think the intent was that Willow makes a choice, but that the writers failed to properly express it due to the characters involved.
Based on the way Oz's loss of control is framed, I think his statement at the end is oversimplified Oz-speak for the actual problem because his statement is factually wrong. He was with Willow during the full moon and didn't change - she is not the catalyst for his wolf. Instead, I think what Oz was supposed to communicate that Willow being with someone else was the catalyst. If Willow had chosen Oz, then he could have controlled the wolf and stayed with her. Because she chose Tara (by sleeping with her, as implied by Willow's scent on Tara, whereas she only talked with Oz), Oz lost control. He can't be around her when she's with someone other than him.
Anyway, I think that's what the authors were going for. It's what the text implies for me, even if the text fails to properly state it. And again, I think it's Oz's and Willow's verbal patterns that cause this. Oz because the writers like keeping his lines short, hence the obviously untrue comment about Willow - it was an overly condenses summary that left out important information. Likewise, I think that the smell comment was suppose to indicate that Willow made her choice through actions, but since Willow never confirms this through any dialogue due to her verbal style being very stream-of-consciousness, it's only subtext rather than text.
If that's the case, then while the writers did err here, it was due to not making their intent clear rather than setting up a choice and then not having the character make it. That's how I read it, anyway.
Seeing Oz and Riley side by side is like seeing Frodo and Aragorn side by side
I agree that eventually it didn't matter what Willow choses because Oz decides to leave anyway but there is a choice made and it's reflect on the way she speaks to him in the van. He says he is leaving right after they describe how they cannot be together now but they are in each other's heart.
And, still, even if she didn't have to make a choice (which she did), I don't really get why... why can't she stay in love with both of them? I guess the answer is "convention"...
I think Willow's conversations with Oz and Tara make things pretty decisive.
“So shut up Riley.”
Exactly