It isn't really smart to implement VTOLs in one of the busiest airspaces in the country. The safety aspect is a major concern with more air vehicles in use. In good news, the Red Line extension to 130th is a great investment by the CTA, but more frequent service on other lines is a must.
Especially in the early mornings frequencies can be absolutely tragic. And maybe if O’Hare’s biggest moneymaker wants this, officials will turn a blind eye to the obvious logistical issues? Lol
Everything has to be a gimmick when we already have perfectly good methods of travel like rail.Well now I know that Chicago is the third largest city in the USA, guessing;New York City, first, and Los Angeles, second?
Our policy makers are often distracted by shiny new things and consequently they ignore what is proven to work. Same deal with all the hyperloop studies and proposals we saw being done in the last decade
@@tonywalters7298 Almost every city or transit agency tries to reinvent the wheel with some sort of gadgetbahn that they tout as the solution to all the area’s transportation woes, instead of just investing in tried-and-true transportation modes like buses, light rail, and heavy rail trains. For Chicago it’s these sky taxis, for other cities it’s Hyperloop or Boring Tunnels, in Pittsburgh it was the “Skybus”. Pissing away money that could have been used to create/expand a much more comprehensive (and *useful*) transit network.
Exactly, the fact CTA has new stock and yet NONE OF THEM are special O'Hare ones with luggage racks is a huge disappointment. And the thing is, the CTA BUILT infrastructure FOR an O'Hare/Midway Express from downtown back in the mid 2000s! A superstation below Block 37 using 200 million dollars of taxpayer money. It was designed so that using existing L trackage, O’Hare trains would join the Blue Line just before Clark/Lake, while Midway trains would join the Red at Washington and switch to the Orange Line via a little-used connector between the subway and elevated just south of Roosevelt, at State/13th. What happened to it? It's sitting ABANDONED. Why? Because under a 2005 agreement with The Mills Corporation who originally developed Block 37, it stated that the service must begin when it opens in 2008...it wasn't ready in time. The CTA had to keep up with the development, scrambling to get it done, but there was no additional capital funding for express tracks, and using existing tracks would have had significant adverse effects on CTA’s other lines. They didn't have the one billion estimated to make it happen
Well, since they are still currently building the trains at the Chicago factory it might be possible to add racks to some of the trains that haven't been built yet
@@Thom-TRA Idk. I wish it worked out. According to a Chicago L fan website, "Some of the luggage racks were removed in later years, as the racks were not well-utilized. Some of the issues with the racks were that the size of overhead racks could not accommodate larger suitcases, and that the racks at the end of the car were not convenient as passengers would not want to leave bags unattended due to fear of theft. The remainder of the racks were removed during the cars' mid-life overhaul."
Well done!. As I see it, the problem with public transportation in our country is that it is considered as a sort of "luxury for the working class", as opposed to in other countries where public transportation is treated as an essential service like water, gas and electricity
True. But in some parts of Europe it's not that glamorous either. Here in Denmark where I'm from its basically just seen a s a social service for the youth, the elderly, or otherwise impaired and misfits, and that's it. There's a stigma to taking transit, especially outside of Copenhagen and especially if you're not something like a university student and not a retiree. Then again these groups are also the only groups that have access to affordable transit, since the regular prices are absurdly high, all while service cuts have happened left, right, and all over for the last 16 years!
I would make a frequent Metra service to O'Hare using the existing tracks but skipping more stations and improved frequency (which I know is basically already your proposal). Probably something like the UP Express in Toronto. With the people mover to the terminals themselves and a not to expensive fare, it could be very well used!
Another issue: Weather. These devices will not be able to operate 9n windy days and rain/ snow storms. In Chicago this will be a big problem many days.
Great video! I can’t imagine actually using this service myself, having to go all the way out to the medical district just to take a glorified 50-100$ ride share is wild. Like, If I were a millionaire and wanted to fly my private jet to Chicago to see a game or concert at the United Center, then go home the same night, maaaaybe it would seem convenient and reasonably priced (and that right there is the inherent problem with this entire idea).
It’s also unsafe with current technology. Skyscrapers do have helipads but few people use them. Much safer to take a helicopter or private jet to the airport and then take a limo to wherever you’re going. In Chicago, Meigs Field used to serve this purpose. In NYC, Teterboro is where the rich people go.
@@Db--jt7bt is that the airport that used to be on Northerly Island that Daly illegally decommissioned? I thought about mentioning that as it is a much more convenient location for accessing downtown imo.
The sad truth for people like the OP who hate this new service is that public transit's considered to be low class, so unless the city and state can make the CTA and METRA look good (or can come up with something like the Union-Pearson Express here in Toronto), people (mainly wealthy people) will be taking services like this one.
Hi Thom! As someone who used to work for CN in Chicago and through my current employer regularly works Metra assignments I can tell you first hand the unfortunate reality is that when it comes to expanding Metra service if it's not on a route where Metra owns the tracks expansion is a pipe dream at best. Most railroads want all Metra trains off of their trackage, and during my time at CN every time Metra would go to them asking for expanded service or route extensions the idea was shot down immediately. Unfortunately, the only reason Metra (and to a lesser extent Amtrak) is able to operate on CN trackage at all is due to the services beginning operation prior to CN owning the trackage (NCS under WC and HC being a holdover from the GM&O/ICG). I could go on for hours about all the things I have experienced with Metra from living in and around Chicago my whole life, but in a nutshell we have freight railroads owning the trackage and a lack of funding from the state and local municipalities to thank for the lack of Metra service on most routes, among many other issues.
@@AL5520 An Alternative would be to construct a new train terminal next to the Milwaukee District west. Not only will it relieve congestion from the Blue line and remove difficulties from the NCS line but it would also allow Milwaukee District west trains to have access to O'hare Airport, Amtrak trains would also get access to O'hare, and Electrification more easily be implemented since you don't have to deal with Canadian National and an airport express can easily be implemented and access to the terminals via O'hare ATS.
I'm feeling very positive with our new mayor, a mayor who actually rides CTA which we haven't had since Rahm Emanuel and transit was probably the one thing Rahm was decent on. I also think it's telling that the first thing Johnson did after his win was shake hands with voters and talk with transit workers at the Cermak/Chinatown Red Line Station 😊
Hi Thom and thanks for making this video. I am an engineer, (PE) that works on urban infrastructure development and I also prefer to travel by rail, and support more rail infrastructure development. However, I support the eVTOL by Archer aviation for Chicago specifically and here is why. I had to travel to Chicago twice, once in 2021 and again in 2022. These were my first trips to Chicago. I live in the Houston area where we lack any meaningful public transit and even less rail. On both of my trips to Chicago, I took the blue line from O'hare to downtown Chicago. It was a very jarring experience. I am in a wheelchair. At the O'hare airport, I had to wait until an employee came to place a ramp so that I could board the train because the gap is too large for a wheelchair to pass over. Most stops on the blue line, and the CTA system wide, lack elevators. This is a problem for not just me, but also for others who maybe walk with a cane but can not negotiate stairs safely. It's also a problem for people with luggage. I saw a man with 2 large suitcases and a carryon bag struggle to manage his large bags down some stairs. It made me wonder how many women have had the same struggle. Next, the train was at points, extreme rough, I was even doing a video recording when myself along with 2 other able-bodies passengers were knocked out of out seats. It took the other person traveling with me to help me get back into my wheelchair. This is not only unacceptable, but a safety hazard. On my last trip, I boarded in downtown and the trains were so crowded I had to wait for 2 more trains before I could find enough space that I could board. Once we got on, again, I was recording video, there were 2 men who felt that society norms and laws didn't apply to them and it was making myself and other passengers uncomfortable. Our trips took 55 minutes. Given these arguments, how can you promote the CTA blue line over Archer's eVtol? Archer's eVtol's isn't meant to be the solution for mass transit. It is suppose to let some take alternative transportation that is faster. By allowing some to take alternative methods, it should free up space on the blue line. But I think the problem is deeper, and you alluded to it in your video when you indicated that funding is subpar. At every station that actually had an elevator and actually worked, finding the elevator from street level to use and access the station was difficult, it was not clearly marked, or in some cases, marked at all. Having to wait until an employees decided to work and come place the ramp that spans the gap is not a pleasant experience. It makes me feel like I'm a burden to others and a second class citizen. According to the CTA's own statistics, only 9% of total ridership on that line actually travels from downtown to O'hare airport. Given the lack of accessibility, the difficulty for elderly or those traveling with luggage, the safety on board, the rough rides, and the behavior or other riders, I have no problem paying $70 or $100 to take Archer's eVtol. And I can't be the only person with these experiences. What you guys need is a dedicated train from O'hare to downtown that makes maybe 2 stops at major transfer centers along the way. That will speed up the train so it's faster than driving, and keep a lot of unpleasant behavior off this specific train. Add security, and fix stations that have elevators and add elevators, and fix the gap. I have rode trains in Dallas, Houston, Miami's Brightline, Denver RTD, San Francisco's BART, St. Louis, and Wash D.C. Metro and none of them have this gap issue between the station platform and the train car. Each of them them also had working elevators. So I conclude, Chicago's gap problem is a lack of giving a crap, not the cost and engineering ability to fix it. As an engineer, I can tell you the cost to fix the gap is minimal. As far as an express which I have eluded to above, and you indicated in your video, that is the solution. And there are engineering solutions to make it happen. But it will be a business use case and political public benefit case to make and win. As an engineer, we don't make the decisions on what to build. We develop plans based on the customer or political body who is paying for the given project. We can design the most perfect project the is the safest, fastest, or whatever, but the best usually means to expensive, so political leaders say no to that much money so we cut things out, and make compromises until it matches the budget the political governing body will accept. That same body often mandates certain feature or aspects for political reasons and it can result in poor execution and poor service that makes the engineering look like crap. Asking Chicago to build an express blue line with the case that it will have acceptable public benefit at the billions it will take to build when it cost Chicago pennies to allow private companies like Archer to come in and be a part of the solution...., that's a hard sell. My Conclusion, if Chicago is unable or unwilling to make meaningful changes to funding and infrastructure transit plans, the result will be private companies filling that gap for travelers who are unwilling to put up with current CTA service standards. I am not wealthy, just average middle class, but am willing to pay for eVtol. Again thanks for making this video. I am a strong rail supporter, and this is one of the few cases where I support something other than rail. I would encourage you to become part of the solution, study ideas, and bring them to the city and CTA, create an advocacy group to promote a better rail service.
Thanks for today's presentation . We could take a cue from Europe. Many people I have conversed with over time feel the same way. I am in the tech industry. I respect technology and wish for improved rail service too!😊
I have used the blue line transit to and from O’Hare airport. While it could be improved, especially providing for baggage racks. It does the job getting you there and back and at a good price. The same for the orange line to Midway airport. It is a convient and low cost alternative without road traffic delays to and from the loop.
Hear, here, Thom! Improving the rail. Service to the airport would bring more riders in for rideshare and public transportation. I will use public transportation when I can and if it was paid attention to, it would be excellent. I am questioning the wisdom of the EVTOL project maybe for the Chicago area, but, maybe not for more remote areas if the aircraft have range.
Exactly! This would be a great way to serve people in areas where low population density doesn’t justify flights or rail. The technology isn’t bad, the location is!
@@Thom-TRA I do not think it would cost much to upgrade the blue and Orange lines to handle passengers for O’Hare. Maybe augmenting security and adding luggage racks. I do not know about Express service. Maybe Metra could do a better job there. I rode the blue line a long time ago and I had no issue with security, but the one thing I remember was the Noise! I hope I do not need to bring ear protection when the trains become subways. MTA and Bart are much quieter.
@@jslasher1 context matters. This video is about O’Hare. It’s obvious which airport he means. That aside, “service to the airport” is a very general way of phrasing it and could mean he means improving service to all airports.
@@jslasher1 For the purpose of the discussion, I am referring to the Blue line to O’Hare as I fly both Alaska and United and I have stayed at the Hilton out there.
One idea would be to make the Blue Line quad track between Addison and O'Hare, the median nature of this section of the line seems to provide enough space for 2 more tracks. One thing I really want for our median train lines, not really related but... I think it would make sense to add platform screen doors. They would cut down on the noise from the expressways and improve safety, we've unfortunately had too many instances of people on the tracks recently. Another place we could start adding screen doors is the new stations currently being built on the RPM project, the new Green Line station on Damen, and the new State/Lake Loop station
They also need to stop claiming that they're the first electric air taxi service (no it isn't), and that there are "zero points of failure." That's complete nonsense.
I agree, this eVTOL thing for Chicago is a terrible idea imo. We already have the Blue Line and Metra to O’Hare airport. The capacity is limited for the eVTOL compared to the Blue Line and Metra’s NCS. The Vertiport location is hard to go to without a car since it is not easy for you to get there with transit and they are not that convenient to reach them for all around Chicago. And the price is probably gonna more likely be much higher than riding Metra and the Blue Line as we see with Lyft, and Lux for example, so this apparently means that this mode to O’Hare will more likely be for the rich and it is most likely that mostly rich people will buy trips on this mode to the airport and that this method is not financially sustainable for a larger group people to use. Adding 70 to 100 bucks to your flight is a lot of money for some people and it is not only rich people that fly. I agree with when Adam said the wealthy continues to build infrastructure that keeps them entertained while people who do not have as much money are continuing to deal with deteriorating infrastructure that they are left with. I agree that trains are good and better for the environment compared to cars for example. We should continue to improve public transportation instead of making stuff only for the wealthy and that not many people can afford as much to get to their destinations. Trains for the most part can carry more capacity, they can access downtown better, they can access neighborhoods along the way easier, and they are a cheaper alternative for more people. Overall I agree with this review.
Years ago, Chicago Helicopter Service used to fly from the Loop to both O'Hare and Midway. Chicago Helicopter used gates on Concourse H, back when H had Delta, North Central, and Southern. United also used to fly between Miegs and O'Hare. That avoided the traffic on the Kennedy, and the security and check-in lines at O'Hare. There are 2 train issues. The CTA can't figure how to run express trains from the Loop to O'Hare. Plus, schlepping luggage on the CTA is a pain. While Metra service to O'Hare is fast, whether from Union Station or the North Suburbs, then you have to get on the ATS with the rental car and remote parking crowd and schlep through the garage to the train station. United's plan means you will be inside security for departing O'Hare and don't have to deal with the baggage claim if arriving O'Hare.
Baggage racks can be added easily to a train. And the advantage of the Blue Line is all the communities it serves along the way. The ATS is not a problem as it drops you off directly in front of security and check in. I doubt doing security at the vertiport will save much time, since it’s such a small facility. Plus, with the tiny capacity of an eVTOL, wait times will be longer. Not to mention travel times. The United Plan will serve a very small number of people and is a colossal waste of money. Money that, if United invested it in other forms of transportation, would have the potential to improve the trip for thousands of people.
Hi Thom! Excellent analysis. I am Italian, but I love Chicago, a city I visit at least once per year and indeed improving rail connectivity of O’ Hare is obviously the right priority. You are Dutch, right? Keep on pushing!
The Blue Line express could run from the Loop to O'Hare without stopping anywhere. I know it's not ideal but it could definitely help during concerts, conventions, and other major gatherings especially. Kind of like the Purple Line.
Hi! I am long time Chicagoan who grew up on the south side [Woodlawn and Chatham] and has been living on the north side [Rogers Park] since 1979. I am have ridden all CTA lines as well as Metra UP-N, UP-NW, Rock Island and MED. I agree with electrifying Metra lines which could serve O'Hare. Until that is done as an alternative how about busways that connect with the closes stations to O'Hare and use electric buses on them?
When I was around your age Thom, I had the desire to try, just once, the Los Angeles Airways helicopter service that I could hear every day flying to and from Disneyland three miles away. It was that loud. The service had begun in 1947 from, wait for it... right next door to LA Union Station downtown. It flew to several destinations besides Disneyland in Anaheim, but that was its main destination for the two and a half decades that it survived as a business. Two fatal accidents finally brought the company down.
That Sky Taxi's are maybe an alternative for business people, but its no public transport. I think it would be a good idea to look at the public transport in the big European cities. In most of that cities public transport, mostly by rail, is so good that there is no need for flying taxi's or even cars to get everywhere in the city in a short time. Connections with airports nearby are also very good with railtransport, often with dedicated raillines.
When I'm on the Blue Line to O'Hare I'm always zooming past the traffic on the highway. And the Orange line from the loop to Midway. 30 min. No road will EVER beat that.
Especially these days, it’s really fun to ride the blue line. Traffic has gotten so bad even the terrible Forest park branch trains are beating cars, and they go about 2mph…
You know, my friend’s dream is to make transit good. And part of that dream is better transit to airports! My friend dreamed up a fast automated express train where what would normally be the power car would instead be used as the baggage car, as his idea involved distributed traction. He also imagined In Town Check In in a special part of Union Station which he called the Downtown Air Terminal!
Thom, Thank you for your report, I'm glad I live here in South Florida, as we have Brightline, Tri-Rail and Amtrak, and with all the buses, we are doing fine, except that many of the buses are never full. Keep up the good work on your videos.
Thom, I can show you a few secrets in LA (that exist at the Grand Avenue Arts/Bunker Hill station is bored 250 feet below the surface., from the street level, there are two banks of four to six high speed elevators that take you from Street Level.to the Mezzanine of the station. This means the only escalators are in the paid area of the station leading between the platforms and Mezzanine. The LA Metro Systems longest station escalators are at Wilshire/Western between the street and lower platform level. I think the east side escalators are both deep and long. In your BART videos, the Mezzanine to west/southbound platform elevators are longer and deeper and longer escalators than Dupont Circle or Wheaton stations in the Washington, DC area and the congested Pentagon and Rosslyn station stops in Arlington, VA and New York Penn Station from the 33rd/8th side of the station.
Agreed about amount of traffic in Chicago. I live in the Chicago area. When Meigs Field was in operation, Chicago did have a helicopter service to O'Hare and Midway. It stopped service sometime in the 1970s .There were heliports located in other areas that served the helicopter service to O'Hare and Midway airports. Look up CHICAGO HELICOPTER AIRWAYS. Otherwise, great video as always.
This idea's one solid advantage is for electrifying private air taxis and helicopter tours. Yeah, Chicago's airspace is too crowded for these gadgets to replace public transit
The blue line on the highways are sooooo uncomfortable to wait at. It feels like you’re an inconvenience being in the middle of the highway. It’s not relaxing or enjoyable. Feels like a last minute ideaz
So true about the bike lanes. Makes me heated that the biggest barrier to improving bike and bus infrastructure is the parking meter deal we still got 60 years left on
...Chicago used to have scheduled helicopter service from Meigs Field (now closed) on the lakefront to O'Hare and Midway on Chicago Helicopter AIrways which operated from 1956 to 1974 using Sikorsky S-58Cs Back in 1960s the fare was 6.00$ for the 11- 12 minute flight from Meigs to O'hare which would be about 60$ today just taking inflation into account. I do agree having small drone like aircraft operating with a high frequency in that airspace would be an ATC nightmare, particularly today as the ATC system is understaffed. (there was eve3n a call for airlines to reduce the number of flights this summer) Back in the late 1960s through mid 70s when I lived in SE Milwaukie, I would often see planes destined for O'hare in holding patterns overhead.and off the Lake Michigan shore.That's how saturated the airspace for Chicago area was even then. Speaking of Milwaukee, airports, and trains, there is an actual Amtrak station at the west end of the airport with train departure and arrivals times shown in the main terminal As for luggage accommodations, Seattle's LRT, which serves SeaTac from Downtown and Northgate, does have spaces for luggage.
Chicago needs high speed rail to and from the airport and blue line express trains!!! I thought high speed rail was going to happen?!?!??! What happened? Awesome video and I agree with you!!!
I used to come to Chicago for the Socialism conference at McCormick Center. The first trip showed a direct Metra line from O’Hare to a station under McCormick. Then I saw the sparse schedule that would never match up with any of my flights. I could only take the Blue line to downtown then transfer to the Orange and then either wait for buses that come two or three times an hour or just shlep my bags six blocks from Cormac station. The downtown Metra is also not joined up with the L. Maybe comrade Brandon, your brand new mayor, is interested in working with CN to get increased Metra frequency btwn downtown and O’Hare and tweaking the downtown and airport Metra stations so they link up conveniently with the L?
I think the E-VTOL idea is cool but definitely not practical, at least for Chicago. The blue line is my favourite CTA line, and I agree that we should improve it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Is there, perhaps, an available embankment along CN's ROW that they can give to the RTA to build high speed track to O'Hare on? Maybe another similar route along the Heritage Corridor to Midway, and then maybe a connecting route between the airports via a Belt Railway embankment. They could charge $10 a trip and call it the Triangle Line! (Loop-O'Hare-Midway) You could have two high speed trains doing loops around in both directions. Just an idea.
Haha your description of bike commuting and transit was spot on with my experience as a visitor! I would hate to bike commute outside of the Lakeshore Trail and downtown. Got to experience a 10+ minute bus delay for my L transfer. Not so reliable as I thought coming from small city Idaho with one bus route. On this video, NYC has a current helicopter to the LaGuardia airport from Manhattan, but it's $200 and more for the insane views than a public transit option.
Dear Thom, This was a very reasonable critique of the proposed airport helicopter service. I would add a strong statement that the environmental damages are not being addressed or perhaps ignored,
Stopped CN trains are always blocking the Water Street crossing at mile 249.21 (from Chicago) in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. This is the primary route to cross the tracks for pedestrians and bikers. The tracks cut the town in half. I can hear the electronic bell from the crossing all the time cause I live a few blocks away. I primarily walk or bike for short trips and that creates a problem for me and many other non motorized travelers. It is a 1/2 mile extra to walk to the Church Street underpass (1930's vintage with 4 traffic lanes and two sidewalks in a 50 foot wide space) and in the winter the sidewalks are not cleared by the responsable owner (the city) so we either go over or under the train or risk our lives by trudging through snow that turns into ice chunks on a sidewalk only an arms length distance from 40 mph road traffic. I like trains but not the way they are now being run by the corporate culture of the owners. And our state is basically run by the rich red counties near Milwaukee who don't want any train service, only new roads. Thanks to gerrymandering they will always be controlling our state's destiny and train service will not cross into Wisconsin. The Hiawatha services will not travel past Milwaukee to places like Green Bay or Madison as long as they are in office. They changed the laws so Metra cannot run north of Kenosha to Milwaukee because they say we have good roads and trains are an outdated expensive boondoggle. I want the Soo Line Laker passenger train that ran from Chicago to Duluth and Minneapolis, and was discontinued in 1965, restored but the track owner, CN railroad and our GOP leaders will make sure that never happens.
It’s horrible what snow and ice can do to pedestrian conditions. And even worse what terrible politicians and greedy corporate officials do to ideas that would actually benefit other people. Stay safe out there.
They'll change their minds once Oil Prices go skyhigh and Honestly the US should piss off the Arabs so much that they completely stop selling oil to the US and not only will it allow the destruction of Isreal but would force the US to give up on Car dependency.
I'd also just note that Gov. Pritzker is so rich that $70-$100 is nothing to him. So the effect of this idea on normal people is not something he may think about. Which is part of the price of Illinois having a governor rich enough not to be a crook.
Hi! Old baby boomer here. You are an exceptionally intelligent young man. You do your research. I wish I was your grandmother so I could brag about you!
Chicago needs to build an equivalent to the Pearson express in Toronto in addition to the blue line. Maybe add one stop in Logan square/bucktown but something to union station would be ideal. No more than $20 each way.
i live in downtown by the lakefront by the concrete beaches. i really wish the highway is just rerouted. turn it into a pedestrian only superplaza and it'll transform chicago
Even if the NCS doesn’t do it’s full route all day, they could do more short turns to O’hare or a bit further 2-3 times an hour with full trips only hourly at best
There's an amazing number of flights between Chicago and Detroit. An amazing amount of traffic would be happy to bypass the airports as soon as there's high speed rail between Chicago and Detroit! (I'm from Ann Arbor. The high speed train needs to stop here too.)
@@Thom-TRA Chicago is a great destination. I’m happy that Amtrak has 3 routes between Chicago and each of the biggest population centers in the state. But there should also be a passenger train from Toledo to Muskegon via Detroit, Lansing and Grand Rapids.
You Are So Right!! It Makes Me Crazy How So Many criticize Trains and Buses and they wouldn't be caught dead on one. This is only the thoughts of Americans. The rest of the World Embraces Trains and Buses. It's shameful!! Your Channel Is Fabulous.🌴
Great video. I agree rail service to and from O'hare needs to be improved. And concerning an express service from O'hare to the Loop, why not an express bus in its own dedicated BRT lane along the Kennedy?
I think I would staunchly oppose the BRT idea. Either cars would get in the lane or buses would get stuck getting off downtown. If we’re going to dedicate space in the Kennedy to public transportation, it seems logical to me to expand the tracks that are already in the middle.
@@Thom-TRA Yeah, I can understand that. Track expansion with an express train would be amazing. I guess I fall into the thinking of making compromises with those 'special interest parties' that brush off rail solutions due to high cost, and then proceed to do nothing to actually improve the situation-or come up with ridiculous false-solutions like drone-copters or a hyper-loop. Express buses aren't perfect but they're something. Better than sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the Kennedy. Also, could possibly be completed in our lifetimes. Just something to think about.
As RM Transit would say that EVTOL thing or whatever that is would be considered a gadget bahn, and will not do good for Chicago, what the city should do is improve and expand their public transportation system like major upgrades and extending the line heck even buying new equipment, and that Crossrail Chicago proposal must be under consideration as well
I watched this video earlier and then had a thought about your pricing from downtown to the airport. You talked about the price of taking an evTol to the airport. Uber etc adding around 70 dollars to the cost of your travel. you would also have to factor in an additional 70 dollars or so for your return trip.
This specific service might have some viable transit alternatives, but it's also a good starting point to develop the concept. Ultimately EVTOL aircraft might provide a lot of the short hop air service as city-to-city flights instead of airport-to-airport, eliminating both short haul jet flights and medium haul car trips. Could regional rail provide a similar service? Sure, but in the current state that's a very limited and slow option. Most people do opt to drive from Chicago to Peoria instead of taking a 5 hour bus trip. Imagine if that only took 90 minutes and had zero emissions? The Chicago Vertiport doesn't get any public funding as far I can find. Is United or Vertiport getting any state or city money for the project? The FAA is funding some EVTOL and Vertiport development, but I don't know if this project gets any of the FAA funds. Let the private companies pour money into this so the state and the city can spend our money on good transit and not have to deal with people who'll never take it demanding direct freeways between every city in Illinois.
Also from Chicago over here. I'm curious to see how Brandon Johnson improves transit and bike infrastructure. Rahm Emanuel (as much as I didn't like him) was one of the best mayors in recent times in regards to these projects and policies. Lori was terrible for transit/biking. And no, I'm not interested in having a political debate about the mayors. I only brought it up to talk about their views/policies on biking/transit.
Out of all the candidates, he seemed the most open to increased funding for transit. I don’t think we’ll have 8 new L lines quite yet, but things certainly won’t get worse.
I'm sure somebody else has probably mentioned this in the comments already but where I see VTOL's being really useful is for emergencies where are the fire departments are having trouble getting equipment 40 stories up on a highrise and the elevators are broken. The same idea for emergency evacuation's. Until we have better battery chemistry I see no way that we could use these VTOL's for transit over buses and trains which our orders of magnitude more efficient.
Excellent arguments for improving transportation between downtown and O’Hare. If more Chicagoans had experienced the excellent airport transportation in other countries, especially Japan, they might be demanding changes in Chicago.
I think a good case study for this proposal might be Blade here in NYC. Granted they use traditional helicopters, but there are a lot of similar issues at play.
NASCAR's Chicago street race is a better option than having VTOLs in Chicago. If only the layout was thoroughly tested before being announced though...
The idea that this trip would be as cheap as an Uber is absolutely ridiculous. First of all, Uber isn't profitable. Second, the energy needed to keep ~2 tons airborne will be way, way higher than that of a car. Third, pilots will have a significantly higher salary than drivers. Fourth, the research, development and maintenance of a small fleet of these new helicopters will not even be comparable to a fleet of mass-produced cars. There's probably a million other reasons why this wouldn't work economically. ON TOP OF THAT, there's a million non-economic reasons, some of which you touched on in the video.
There is no way it would be that cheap, based on the images provided it looks like a low capacity. Which when you considered the FAAs severe level of safety regulations the maintenance will be cripplingly expensive for their low capacity. Which will make it's way down to ticket prices that will absolutely be like $100-200.
I guess United's trying to influence the CTA to discontinue the Blue Line to O'Hare, LOL. It's not going to work. Taking the El to O'Hare may take 45 minutes from the Loop, but it totally beats trying to navigate through downtown Chicago and get caught in traffic on the Kennedy Expressway. The solution to this is leave extra early to add in the travel time. Those "e-copters" are a financial disaster waiting to happen if they were to occur.
They should instead construct a new train terminal next to the Milwaukee District west. Not only will it relieve congestion from the Blue line and remove difficulties from the NCS line but it would also allow Milwaukee District west trains to have access to O'hare Airport, Amtrak trains would also get access to O'hare, and Electrification more easily be implemented since you don't have to deal with Canadian National and an airport express can easily be implemented and access to the terminals via O'hare ATS.
I presume there is some sort of airport train that would lose it's monopoly if that happened. Which then means they'll lobby relentlessly to keep the status quo.
We need to be more and more efficent with out energy in the future. And some think, the most energy consuming mode of transportation (helicopter) should be the solution? Nope, that's the most efficent mode of transportation: the railway!
0:43 So that Chicago River colored into green thing wasn't just from The Fugitive? Even so, yeah, that eVTOL thing is really dumb and appears to be a safety hazard for the airplanes around O'Hare, and I'm not gonna lie, I honestly think that either an expansion of Metra's north central service, or making some sort of Blue Line express service. Also if this were an Adam Something video he'd definitely work the eVTOL around to make it into a train. And I am certain that he's probably doing it (or has done it).
While these are cool vehicles,they are not the best for this situation! Working on the roads and rail systems would make more sense! Your ideas are what they need to do!
realistically, I can see the EVTOLs basically just being a weird supplemental service, kind of akin to rideshare. I see little likelihood that this system will be scalable as mass transit, basically being pods and all. I see why someone would think it's cool, but that's about where the system's appeal ends. Just take the damn train like everyone else
Oh shoot! I’m about to miss my flight! Let me call an Uber to get me to Little Italy, then wait in line, then go through security, then board a tiny plane, then walk to my big plane! That will fix it!
okay, hear me out, what if we make a new project and just call it electric hover vtol superhighways, but just... build a bunch of train lines with futuristic looking fiberglass shells that make it look like they're flying. if they can be fooled into thinking that hundreds of eVTOLs will meaningfully impact anything even slightly related to MASS transit, they can be fooled into building trains if you make them look futuristic enough.
I live in Chicago in these VTOLs seem to be one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of. We have had helicopter service between the loop and O'Hare, but Mayor Daley senior ended this because he thought it was too dangerous which it is. We already have convenient rail service to both airports, and they work well in all types of weather. Let's end this project right now, just because a couple of FatCats want to look cool.
I constantly scream in my head "ELECTRIFY ALL THE METRA LINES AND MAKE THE YELLOW LINE A WEST ALIGNED NORTH SOUTH LINE THAT CONNECTS ALL THE OTHER L LINES (AS WELL AS CONNECT THE BROWN LINE TO THE BLUE LINE AT JEFFERSON PARK, AMONG OTHER INTRALINE CONNECTIONS). ALSO EXPAND SOUTH SHORE LINE AND REINSTATE THE BORTH SHORE LINE TO MILWAUKEE. Lastly, I don't even care about high speed rail, can we JUST PLEASE get the Keystone Corridor extended all the way to Chicago (and electrified) and have the Wolverine service electrified and run medium speed ACS-64 Amtrak trains between Chicago/Detroit and Chicago/NEC.... That's all I want. Just generally add new Metra and CTA lines as well as increase service cadence. Electrify electrify electrify ... Reroute all nonsense funding from shit like eVTOLs and gigahighways (and shit like the O'Hare ring road). That's all I want.
This is j ust a repeat of the helicopter airlines of the 1950s to 1970s It was proven to not be viable outside of a very limited selection of routes then (without incredible subsidies) & it'll probably just be proven again
The only hope is that your ground crew is reduced since you don't need fuel, just charge. Your maintenance is reduced since your engines have a different and simpler maintenance regime. And automation on the flight deck makes the dispatch and landing and high traffic flight environment manageable. I doubt these savings make the concept better enough to be a good alternative.
@@Lildizzle420 it's still not going to change how much energy anything that flies inherently needs & how much more energy is needed for vertical take off. Or how incredible the amount of maintenance anything that flies needs, Helicopters are even worse for this & tiltrotors even worse than helicopters. These things cannot safely spend more than 1 hour flying for every 2-6 hours of maintenance.
@@Lildizzle420 You end up spending so much extra on the vehicles, the guidance systems, the vertiport facilities, etc that it's utterly unfeasible. How cheap do you think a hypothetical 20 or 30 person air shuttle can be? And how many of them would you need in order to offer adequate service?
@@Lildizzle420 it saves energy vs regular helicopters but vertical take off/landing has always been incredibly inefficient & consumes a ton of energy vs almost every other part of flight while limiting payload a ton
@@Thom-TRA where do you think would be the best locations for them? That would be so awesome. I live in Edgewater, so the red line helps out a lot, but if I want to go to let's say wicker park or Logan square, it's a nightmare.
VTOLs would be fine for getting passengers from smaller towns and cities to much larger hubs. There is a caveat though, and these services would likely need to he funded by the Essential Air Service. Let's take the cities of Peru, Sterling, DeKalb, Pontiac, and Kankakee, for instance. One could go to their downtown heliport, park for free, go through TSA in these small towns instead of Chicago, and connect to several world class airlines quickly.
It isn't really smart to implement VTOLs in one of the busiest airspaces in the country. The safety aspect is a major concern with more air vehicles in use. In good news, the Red Line extension to 130th is a great investment by the CTA, but more frequent service on other lines is a must.
Especially in the early mornings frequencies can be absolutely tragic.
And maybe if O’Hare’s biggest moneymaker wants this, officials will turn a blind eye to the obvious logistical issues? Lol
Same price as an Uber Lol 😂😂. I see it as high end option.
Everything has to be a gimmick when we already have perfectly good methods of travel like rail.Well now I know that Chicago is the third largest city in the USA, guessing;New York City, first, and Los Angeles, second?
That guess is correct
Our policy makers are often distracted by shiny new things and consequently they ignore what is proven to work. Same deal with all the hyperloop studies and proposals we saw being done in the last decade
@@tonywalters7298 Almost every city or transit agency tries to reinvent the wheel with some sort of gadgetbahn that they tout as the solution to all the area’s transportation woes, instead of just investing in tried-and-true transportation modes like buses, light rail, and heavy rail trains. For Chicago it’s these sky taxis, for other cities it’s Hyperloop or Boring Tunnels, in Pittsburgh it was the “Skybus”. Pissing away money that could have been used to create/expand a much more comprehensive (and *useful*) transit network.
@@tonywalters7298 I forgot about the Hyperloop! 😂😂😂
Keep in mind that this is same country that got impressed by solar roadways or a Hyperloop that's practically impossible.
Exactly, the fact CTA has new stock and yet NONE OF THEM are special O'Hare ones with luggage racks is a huge disappointment. And the thing is, the CTA BUILT infrastructure FOR an O'Hare/Midway Express from downtown back in the mid 2000s! A superstation below Block 37 using 200 million dollars of taxpayer money. It was designed so that using existing L trackage, O’Hare trains would join the Blue Line just before Clark/Lake, while Midway trains would join the Red at Washington and switch to the Orange Line via a little-used connector between the subway and elevated just south of Roosevelt, at State/13th.
What happened to it? It's sitting ABANDONED. Why? Because under a 2005 agreement with The Mills Corporation who originally developed Block 37, it stated that the service must begin when it opens in 2008...it wasn't ready in time. The CTA had to keep up with the development, scrambling to get it done, but there was no additional capital funding for express tracks, and using existing tracks would have had significant adverse effects on CTA’s other lines. They didn't have the one billion estimated to make it happen
And now all the connecting hallways have been sealed up…
Well, since they are still currently building the trains at the Chicago factory it might be possible to add racks to some of the trains that haven't been built yet
The cta already tried the whole luggage racks thing. It didn't work out
@@robk7266 I love American exceptionalism. How even the most basic proven ideas never seem to work out here.
@@Thom-TRA Idk. I wish it worked out. According to a Chicago L fan website, "Some of the luggage racks were removed in later years, as the racks were not well-utilized. Some of the issues with the racks were that the size of overhead racks could not accommodate larger suitcases, and that the racks at the end of the car were not convenient as passengers would not want to leave bags unattended due to fear of theft. The remainder of the racks were removed during the cars' mid-life overhaul."
Well done!. As I see it, the problem with public transportation in our country is that it is considered as a sort of "luxury for the working class", as opposed to in other countries where public transportation is treated as an essential service like water, gas and electricity
True. But in some parts of Europe it's not that glamorous either. Here in Denmark where I'm from its basically just seen a s a social service for the youth, the elderly, or otherwise impaired and misfits, and that's it. There's a stigma to taking transit, especially outside of Copenhagen and especially if you're not something like a university student and not a retiree. Then again these groups are also the only groups that have access to affordable transit, since the regular prices are absurdly high, all while service cuts have happened left, right, and all over for the last 16 years!
I would make a frequent Metra service to O'Hare using the existing tracks but skipping more stations and improved frequency (which I know is basically already your proposal). Probably something like the UP Express in Toronto. With the people mover to the terminals themselves and a not to expensive fare, it could be very well used!
I could see it as a good option between a place like Long Island and NE. Especially for college students from LI, or in Hawaii to Island hop
Another issue: Weather. These devices will not be able to operate 9n windy days and rain/ snow storms. In Chicago this will be a big problem many days.
Salt Lake City would like to have a word with the CTA about keeping trains clean and running to time, if RMTransit is to be believed.
Great video! I can’t imagine actually using this service myself, having to go all the way out to the medical district just to take a glorified 50-100$ ride share is wild. Like, If I were a millionaire and wanted to fly my private jet to Chicago to see a game or concert at the United Center, then go home the same night, maaaaybe it would seem convenient and reasonably priced (and that right there is the inherent problem with this entire idea).
Yeah this is just kind of a fun toy
It’s also unsafe with current technology. Skyscrapers do have helipads but few people use them. Much safer to take a helicopter or private jet to the airport and then take a limo to wherever you’re going. In Chicago, Meigs Field used to serve this purpose. In NYC, Teterboro is where the rich people go.
@@Db--jt7bt is that the airport that used to be on Northerly Island that Daly illegally decommissioned? I thought about mentioning that as it is a much more convenient location for accessing downtown imo.
The sad truth for people like the OP who hate this new service is that public transit's considered to be low class, so unless the city and state can make the CTA and METRA look good (or can come up with something like the Union-Pearson Express here in Toronto), people (mainly wealthy people) will be taking services like this one.
@@Lildizzle420 So what you're saying is that 9/11 should be a daily occurrence? Gotcha.
The blue line needs luggage racks for not just the Ohare passengers, but the passengers arriving into Chicago Union Station!
And we need a better connection between the Blue Line and Union Station
The used to. Nobody used them
Hi Thom! As someone who used to work for CN in Chicago and through my current employer regularly works Metra assignments I can tell you first hand the unfortunate reality is that when it comes to expanding Metra service if it's not on a route where Metra owns the tracks expansion is a pipe dream at best. Most railroads want all Metra trains off of their trackage, and during my time at CN every time Metra would go to them asking for expanded service or route extensions the idea was shot down immediately. Unfortunately, the only reason Metra (and to a lesser extent Amtrak) is able to operate on CN trackage at all is due to the services beginning operation prior to CN owning the trackage (NCS under WC and HC being a holdover from the GM&O/ICG). I could go on for hours about all the things I have experienced with Metra from living in and around Chicago my whole life, but in a nutshell we have freight railroads owning the trackage and a lack of funding from the state and local municipalities to thank for the lack of Metra service on most routes, among many other issues.
Thanks for the insight! I wish there was a way to add a track in the right of way, just for such a short distance.
@@AL5520 An Alternative would be to construct a new train terminal next to the Milwaukee District west. Not only will it relieve congestion from the Blue line and remove difficulties from the NCS line but it would also allow Milwaukee District west trains to have access to O'hare Airport, Amtrak trains would also get access to O'hare, and Electrification more easily be implemented since you don't have to deal with Canadian National and an airport express can easily be implemented and access to the terminals via O'hare ATS.
I'm feeling very positive with our new mayor, a mayor who actually rides CTA which we haven't had since Rahm Emanuel and transit was probably the one thing Rahm was decent on. I also think it's telling that the first thing Johnson did after his win was shake hands with voters and talk with transit workers at the Cermak/Chinatown Red Line Station 😊
Fun fact: one of the two times I met Rahm Emanuel was at Clark/Lake after he won in 2011
I think he will be good for the city
Hi Thom and thanks for making this video. I am an engineer, (PE) that works on urban infrastructure development and I also prefer to travel by rail, and support more rail infrastructure development. However, I support the eVTOL by Archer aviation for Chicago specifically and here is why.
I had to travel to Chicago twice, once in 2021 and again in 2022. These were my first trips to Chicago. I live in the Houston area where we lack any meaningful public transit and even less rail. On both of my trips to Chicago, I took the blue line from O'hare to downtown Chicago. It was a very jarring experience.
I am in a wheelchair. At the O'hare airport, I had to wait until an employee came to place a ramp so that I could board the train because the gap is too large for a wheelchair to pass over. Most stops on the blue line, and the CTA system wide, lack elevators. This is a problem for not just me, but also for others who maybe walk with a cane but can not negotiate stairs safely. It's also a problem for people with luggage. I saw a man with 2 large suitcases and a carryon bag struggle to manage his large bags down some stairs. It made me wonder how many women have had the same struggle.
Next, the train was at points, extreme rough, I was even doing a video recording when myself along with 2 other able-bodies passengers were knocked out of out seats. It took the other person traveling with me to help me get back into my wheelchair. This is not only unacceptable, but a safety hazard.
On my last trip, I boarded in downtown and the trains were so crowded I had to wait for 2 more trains before I could find enough space that I could board. Once we got on, again, I was recording video, there were 2 men who felt that society norms and laws didn't apply to them and it was making myself and other passengers uncomfortable. Our trips took 55 minutes.
Given these arguments, how can you promote the CTA blue line over Archer's eVtol?
Archer's eVtol's isn't meant to be the solution for mass transit. It is suppose to let some take alternative transportation that is faster. By allowing some to take alternative methods, it should free up space on the blue line.
But I think the problem is deeper, and you alluded to it in your video when you indicated that funding is subpar. At every station that actually had an elevator and actually worked, finding the elevator from street level to use and access the station was difficult, it was not clearly marked, or in some cases, marked at all. Having to wait until an employees decided to work and come place the ramp that spans the gap is not a pleasant experience. It makes me feel like I'm a burden to others and a second class citizen.
According to the CTA's own statistics, only 9% of total ridership on that line actually travels from downtown to O'hare airport.
Given the lack of accessibility, the difficulty for elderly or those traveling with luggage, the safety on board, the rough rides, and the behavior or other riders, I have no problem paying $70 or $100 to take Archer's eVtol. And I can't be the only person with these experiences.
What you guys need is a dedicated train from O'hare to downtown that makes maybe 2 stops at major transfer centers along the way. That will speed up the train so it's faster than driving, and keep a lot of unpleasant behavior off this specific train. Add security, and fix stations that have elevators and add elevators, and fix the gap. I have rode trains in Dallas, Houston, Miami's Brightline, Denver RTD, San Francisco's BART, St. Louis, and Wash D.C. Metro and none of them have this gap issue between the station platform and the train car. Each of them them also had working elevators. So I conclude, Chicago's gap problem is a lack of giving a crap, not the cost and engineering ability to fix it. As an engineer, I can tell you the cost to fix the gap is minimal.
As far as an express which I have eluded to above, and you indicated in your video, that is the solution. And there are engineering solutions to make it happen. But it will be a business use case and political public benefit case to make and win. As an engineer, we don't make the decisions on what to build. We develop plans based on the customer or political body who is paying for the given project. We can design the most perfect project the is the safest, fastest, or whatever, but the best usually means to expensive, so political leaders say no to that much money so we cut things out, and make compromises until it matches the budget the political governing body will accept. That same body often mandates certain feature or aspects for political reasons and it can result in poor execution and poor service that makes the engineering look like crap.
Asking Chicago to build an express blue line with the case that it will have acceptable public benefit at the billions it will take to build when it cost Chicago pennies to allow private companies like Archer to come in and be a part of the solution...., that's a hard sell.
My Conclusion, if Chicago is unable or unwilling to make meaningful changes to funding and infrastructure transit plans, the result will be private companies filling that gap for travelers who are unwilling to put up with current CTA service standards. I am not wealthy, just average middle class, but am willing to pay for eVtol.
Again thanks for making this video. I am a strong rail supporter, and this is one of the few cases where I support something other than rail. I would encourage you to become part of the solution, study ideas, and bring them to the city and CTA, create an advocacy group to promote a better rail service.
Thanks for today's presentation . We could take a cue from Europe. Many people I have conversed with over time feel the same way. I am in the tech industry. I respect technology and wish for improved rail service too!😊
I have used the blue line transit to and from O’Hare airport. While it could be improved, especially providing for baggage racks. It does the job getting you there and back and at a good price. The same for the orange line to Midway airport. It is a convient and low cost alternative without road traffic delays to and from the loop.
Hear, here, Thom! Improving the rail. Service to the airport would bring more riders in for rideshare and public transportation. I will use public transportation when I can and if it was paid attention to, it would be excellent. I am questioning the wisdom of the EVTOL project maybe for the Chicago area, but, maybe not for more remote areas if the aircraft have range.
Exactly! This would be a great way to serve people in areas where low population density doesn’t justify flights or rail. The technology isn’t bad, the location is!
@@Thom-TRA I do not think it would cost much to upgrade the blue and Orange lines to handle passengers for O’Hare. Maybe augmenting security and adding luggage racks. I do not know about Express service. Maybe Metra could do a better job there.
I rode the blue line a long time ago and I had no issue with security, but the one thing I remember was the Noise! I hope I do not need to bring ear protection when the trains become subways. MTA and Bart are much quieter.
@@jslasher1 context matters. This video is about O’Hare. It’s obvious which airport he means.
That aside, “service to the airport” is a very general way of phrasing it and could mean he means improving service to all airports.
@@jslasher1 That's not semantics at all, it's basic context.
@@jslasher1 For the purpose of the discussion, I am referring to the Blue line to O’Hare as I fly both Alaska and United and I have stayed at the Hilton out there.
One idea would be to make the Blue Line quad track between Addison and O'Hare, the median nature of this section of the line seems to provide enough space for 2 more tracks.
One thing I really want for our median train lines, not really related but... I think it would make sense to add platform screen doors. They would cut down on the noise from the expressways and improve safety, we've unfortunately had too many instances of people on the tracks recently. Another place we could start adding screen doors is the new stations currently being built on the RPM project, the new Green Line station on Damen, and the new State/Lake Loop station
I am a huge proponent of PSDs
@@Thom-TRA I would imagine having spent time in Japan. I was in Seoul for a month in 2010
They also need to stop claiming that they're the first electric air taxi service (no it isn't), and that there are "zero points of failure." That's complete nonsense.
A lot of talk and not a lot of action!
I agree, this eVTOL thing for Chicago is a terrible idea imo. We already have the Blue Line and Metra to O’Hare airport. The capacity is limited for the eVTOL compared to the Blue Line and Metra’s NCS. The Vertiport location is hard to go to without a car since it is not easy for you to get there with transit and they are not that convenient to reach them for all around Chicago. And the price is probably gonna more likely be much higher than riding Metra and the Blue Line as we see with Lyft, and Lux for example, so this apparently means that this mode to O’Hare will more likely be for the rich and it is most likely that mostly rich people will buy trips on this mode to the airport and that this method is not financially sustainable for a larger group people to use. Adding 70 to 100 bucks to your flight is a lot of money for some people and it is not only rich people that fly. I agree with when Adam said the wealthy continues to build infrastructure that keeps them entertained while people who do not have as much money are continuing to deal with deteriorating infrastructure that they are left with. I agree that trains are good and better for the environment compared to cars for example. We should continue to improve public transportation instead of making stuff only for the wealthy and that not many people can afford as much to get to their destinations. Trains for the most part can carry more capacity, they can access downtown better, they can access neighborhoods along the way easier, and they are a cheaper alternative for more people. Overall I agree with this review.
Years ago, Chicago Helicopter Service used to fly from the Loop to both O'Hare and Midway.
Chicago Helicopter used gates on Concourse H, back when H had Delta, North Central, and Southern.
United also used to fly between Miegs and O'Hare. That avoided the traffic on the Kennedy, and the security and check-in lines at O'Hare.
There are 2 train issues. The CTA can't figure how to run express trains from the Loop to O'Hare. Plus, schlepping luggage on the CTA is a pain.
While Metra service to O'Hare is fast, whether from Union Station or the North Suburbs, then you have to get on the ATS with the rental car and remote parking crowd and schlep through the garage to the train station.
United's plan means you will be inside security for departing O'Hare and don't have to deal with the baggage claim if arriving O'Hare.
Baggage racks can be added easily to a train. And the advantage of the Blue Line is all the communities it serves along the way.
The ATS is not a problem as it drops you off directly in front of security and check in.
I doubt doing security at the vertiport will save much time, since it’s such a small facility. Plus, with the tiny capacity of an eVTOL, wait times will be longer. Not to mention travel times.
The United Plan will serve a very small number of people and is a colossal waste of money. Money that, if United invested it in other forms of transportation, would have the potential to improve the trip for thousands of people.
Hi Thom! Excellent analysis. I am Italian, but I love Chicago, a city I visit at least once per year and indeed improving rail connectivity of O’ Hare is obviously the right priority. You are Dutch, right? Keep on pushing!
Grazie!
The Blue Line express could run from the Loop to O'Hare without stopping anywhere. I know it's not ideal but it could definitely help during concerts, conventions, and other major gatherings especially. Kind of like the Purple Line.
Hi! I am long time Chicagoan who grew up on the south side [Woodlawn and Chatham] and has been living on the north side [Rogers Park] since 1979.
I am have ridden all CTA lines as well as Metra UP-N, UP-NW, Rock Island and MED. I agree with electrifying Metra lines which could serve O'Hare. Until that is done
as an alternative how about busways that connect with the closes stations to O'Hare and use electric buses on them?
When I was around your age Thom, I had the desire to try, just once, the Los Angeles Airways helicopter service that I could hear every day flying to and from Disneyland three miles away. It was that loud. The service had begun in 1947 from, wait for it... right next door to LA Union Station downtown. It flew to several destinations besides Disneyland in Anaheim, but that was its main destination for the two and a half decades that it survived as a business. Two fatal accidents finally brought the company down.
I agree, and plus the hovercrafts could run out of battery and fall. Once again a great video.
That Sky Taxi's are maybe an alternative for business people, but its no public transport. I think it would be a good idea to look at the public transport in the big European cities. In most of that cities public transport, mostly by rail, is so good that there is no need for flying taxi's or even cars to get everywhere in the city in a short time. Connections with airports nearby are also very good with railtransport, often with dedicated raillines.
Great video, I totally agree thanks for sharing!
You’re welcome! Video from your namesake city coming soon
@@Thom-TRA I am so excited! If it's about the Delmar Loop Trolley please be nice, it has great potential! :]
When I'm on the Blue Line to O'Hare I'm always zooming past the traffic on the highway. And the Orange line from the loop to Midway. 30 min. No road will EVER beat that.
Especially these days, it’s really fun to ride the blue line. Traffic has gotten so bad even the terrible Forest park branch trains are beating cars, and they go about 2mph…
You know, my friend’s dream is to make transit good. And part of that dream is better transit to airports! My friend dreamed up a fast automated express train where what would normally be the power car would instead be used as the baggage car, as his idea involved distributed traction. He also imagined In Town Check In in a special part of Union Station which he called the Downtown Air Terminal!
Thom, Thank you for your report, I'm glad I live here in South Florida, as we have Brightline, Tri-Rail and Amtrak, and with all the buses, we are doing fine, except that many of the buses are never full. Keep up the good work on your videos.
And warm weather! Something we definitely don’t have
@@Thom-TRA Yes, true, I forgot 🙂
Thom, I can show you a few secrets in LA (that exist at the Grand Avenue Arts/Bunker Hill station is bored 250 feet below the surface., from the street level, there are two banks of four to six high speed elevators that take you from Street Level.to the Mezzanine of the station. This means the only escalators are in the paid area of the station leading between the platforms and Mezzanine. The LA Metro Systems longest station escalators are at Wilshire/Western between the street and lower platform level.
I think the east side escalators are both deep and long.
In your BART videos, the Mezzanine to west/southbound platform elevators are longer and deeper and longer escalators than Dupont Circle or Wheaton stations in the Washington, DC area and the congested Pentagon and Rosslyn station stops in Arlington, VA and New York Penn Station from the 33rd/8th side of the station.
The blue line used to have baggage racks, but they got rid of them because nobody was using them
Agreed about amount of traffic in Chicago. I live in the Chicago area. When Meigs Field was in operation, Chicago did have a helicopter service to O'Hare and Midway. It stopped service sometime in the 1970s .There were heliports located in other areas that served the helicopter service to O'Hare and Midway airports. Look up CHICAGO HELICOPTER AIRWAYS. Otherwise, great video as always.
I will look it up! Always love learning something new
This idea's one solid advantage is for electrifying private air taxis and helicopter tours. Yeah, Chicago's airspace is too crowded for these gadgets to replace public transit
The blue line on the highways are sooooo uncomfortable to wait at. It feels like you’re an inconvenience being in the middle of the highway. It’s not relaxing or enjoyable. Feels like a last minute ideaz
So true about the bike lanes. Makes me heated that the biggest barrier to improving bike and bus infrastructure is the parking meter deal we still got 60 years left on
I barely bike which sucks because I love biking so much
...Chicago used to have scheduled helicopter service from Meigs Field (now closed) on the lakefront to O'Hare and Midway on Chicago Helicopter AIrways which operated from 1956 to 1974 using Sikorsky S-58Cs Back in 1960s the fare was 6.00$ for the 11- 12 minute flight from Meigs to O'hare which would be about 60$ today just taking inflation into account.
I do agree having small drone like aircraft operating with a high frequency in that airspace would be an ATC nightmare, particularly today as the ATC system is understaffed. (there was eve3n a call for airlines to reduce the number of flights this summer)
Back in the late 1960s through mid 70s when I lived in SE Milwaukie, I would often see planes destined for O'hare in holding patterns overhead.and off the Lake Michigan shore.That's how saturated the airspace for Chicago area was even then.
Speaking of Milwaukee, airports, and trains, there is an actual Amtrak station at the west end of the airport with train departure and arrivals times shown in the main terminal
As for luggage accommodations, Seattle's LRT, which serves SeaTac from Downtown and Northgate, does have spaces for luggage.
I frequently use the Kennedy expressway and it’s very crowded at times
Chicago needs high speed rail to and from the airport and blue line express trains!!! I thought high speed rail was going to happen?!?!??! What happened? Awesome video and I agree with you!!!
Things here take time. Waaaaaay too much time.
Thom, you made excellent points in your video.
Thank you!
I used to come to Chicago for the Socialism conference at McCormick Center. The first trip showed a direct Metra line from O’Hare to a station under McCormick. Then I saw the sparse schedule that would never match up with any of my flights. I could only take the Blue line to downtown then transfer to the Orange and then either wait for buses that come two or three times an hour or just shlep my bags six blocks from Cormac station.
The downtown Metra is also not joined up with the L.
Maybe comrade Brandon, your brand new mayor, is interested in working with CN to get increased Metra frequency btwn downtown and O’Hare and tweaking the downtown and airport Metra stations so they link up conveniently with the L?
I think the E-VTOL idea is cool but definitely not practical, at least for Chicago. The blue line is my favourite CTA line, and I agree that we should improve it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
On many routes in Europe and Japan, high speed rail has replaced short-haul flying. This is ridiculous.
Hey! I live in Chicago. I love Chicago. It’s so easy to get around. Except rush-hour Friday night. But I know all the shortcuts.
Fridays are the quietest day of the week.
Is there, perhaps, an available embankment along CN's ROW that they can give to the RTA to build high speed track to O'Hare on? Maybe another similar route along the Heritage Corridor to Midway, and then maybe a connecting route between the airports via a Belt Railway embankment. They could charge $10 a trip and call it the Triangle Line! (Loop-O'Hare-Midway) You could have two high speed trains doing loops around in both directions. Just an idea.
Probably the best sponsor message I've seen in a long time!
Somebody got it! Good for you, Joel!
Haha your description of bike commuting and transit was spot on with my experience as a visitor! I would hate to bike commute outside of the Lakeshore Trail and downtown. Got to experience a 10+ minute bus delay for my L transfer. Not so reliable as I thought coming from small city Idaho with one bus route.
On this video, NYC has a current helicopter to the LaGuardia airport from Manhattan, but it's $200 and more for the insane views than a public transit option.
The lakeshore trail is great. Except… those pesky pedestrians who never realize they have their own trail right next to it!
@@Thom-TRA Haha true no one wants to take the right pathways
Keep it up Tom great video! So many criticisms and you didn't even get to safety and reliability!
It has to actually fly before we can criticize reliability and safety!
@Thom-TRA yah that is 100% true at this point it's still all cgi
@@Lildizzle420 Stop being a corporate sheep
I totally agree our investment for the future should be in the rails and not flying services.
How right you are, sir!
Dear Thom,
This was a very reasonable critique of the proposed airport helicopter service. I would add a strong statement that the environmental damages are not being addressed or perhaps ignored,
Yes, these would be reliant on batteries, as well as polluting feeder service to the vertiport! So not great for the environment, as you say!
It literally uses a lithium ion battery and charges using the grid. If anything it will create more emissions than an EV.
@@Lildizzle420 Stop being a corporate sheep
We definitely have the money but Canadian National is being an asshole just because passenger trains run on their tracks
Stopped CN trains are always blocking the Water Street crossing at mile 249.21 (from Chicago) in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. This is the primary route to cross the tracks for pedestrians and bikers. The tracks cut the town in half. I can hear the electronic bell from the crossing all the time cause I live a few blocks away. I primarily walk or bike for short trips and that creates a problem for me and many other non motorized travelers. It is a 1/2 mile extra to walk to the Church Street underpass (1930's vintage with 4 traffic lanes and two sidewalks in a 50 foot wide space) and in the winter the sidewalks are not cleared by the responsable owner (the city) so we either go over or under the train or risk our lives by trudging through snow that turns into ice chunks on a sidewalk only an arms length distance from 40 mph road traffic. I like trains but not the way they are now being run by the corporate culture of the owners. And our state is basically run by the rich red counties near Milwaukee who don't want any train service, only new roads. Thanks to gerrymandering they will always be controlling our state's destiny and train service will not cross into Wisconsin. The Hiawatha services will not travel past Milwaukee to places like Green Bay or Madison as long as they are in office. They changed the laws so Metra cannot run north of Kenosha to Milwaukee because they say we have good roads and trains are an outdated expensive boondoggle. I want the Soo Line Laker passenger train that ran from Chicago to Duluth and Minneapolis, and was discontinued in 1965, restored but the track owner, CN railroad and our GOP leaders will make sure that never happens.
It’s horrible what snow and ice can do to pedestrian conditions. And even worse what terrible politicians and greedy corporate officials do to ideas that would actually benefit other people.
Stay safe out there.
They'll change their minds once Oil Prices go skyhigh and Honestly the US should piss off the Arabs so much that they completely stop selling oil to the US and not only will it allow the destruction of Isreal but would force the US to give up on Car dependency.
I'd also just note that Gov. Pritzker is so rich that $70-$100 is nothing to him. So the effect of this idea on normal people is not something he may think about.
Which is part of the price of Illinois having a governor rich enough not to be a crook.
Hi! Old baby boomer here. You are an exceptionally intelligent young man. You do your research. I wish I was your grandmother so I could brag about you!
Haha this is the best compliment I’ve received all week! You sound like an awesome grandma
Chicago needs to build an equivalent to the Pearson express in Toronto in addition to the blue line. Maybe add one stop in Logan square/bucktown but something to union station would be ideal. No more than $20 each way.
i live in downtown by the lakefront by the concrete beaches. i really wish the highway is just rerouted. turn it into a pedestrian only superplaza and it'll transform chicago
Yeah I live near the lake too and I’d go there everyday except the highway adds almost a mile to the walk
As a Muslim, I'm so disappointed in my Muslim brothers in Saudi Arabia and how selfish they have become.
Swapping a traffic jam on the road for a traffic jam in the air...
Pretty much
@@Thom-TRA It would also increase the likelyhood of another 9/11 like event and NOBODY wants another 9/11 type event
Even if the NCS doesn’t do it’s full route all day, they could do more short turns to O’hare or a bit further 2-3 times an hour with full trips only hourly at best
If you could clear TSA at the vertiport, that might change things-but i doubt that would happen
A frequent service to O’Hare is well within the realm of possibility, as long as the political will is there.
you can do an express train by building rails above the stations like bridges
True. Expensive but possible.
There's an amazing number of flights between Chicago and Detroit. An amazing amount of traffic would be happy to bypass the airports as soon as there's high speed rail between Chicago and Detroit! (I'm from Ann Arbor. The high speed train needs to stop here too.)
Let’s build a branch from Kalamazoo to GR so I can visit my family! Lol
@@Thom-TRA my son lives in Lansing and my mother-in-law lives in Grand Rapids. Why does every Amtrak route in the state go to Chicago?
@@FameyFamous because, you know, we’re the best place in the whole world (just kidding)
@@Thom-TRA Chicago is a great destination. I’m happy that Amtrak has 3 routes between Chicago and each of the biggest population centers in the state. But there should also be a passenger train from Toledo to Muskegon via Detroit, Lansing and Grand Rapids.
@@FameyFamous oh yeah, I 100% agree. Michigan has a few good corridors that would actually be successful if they actually just went and did it.
You Are So Right!! It Makes Me Crazy How So Many criticize Trains and Buses and they wouldn't be caught dead on one. This is only the thoughts of Americans. The rest of the World Embraces Trains and Buses. It's shameful!! Your Channel Is Fabulous.🌴
Great video. I agree rail service to and from O'hare needs to be improved. And concerning an express service from O'hare to the Loop, why not an express bus in its own dedicated BRT lane along the Kennedy?
I think I would staunchly oppose the BRT idea. Either cars would get in the lane or buses would get stuck getting off downtown. If we’re going to dedicate space in the Kennedy to public transportation, it seems logical to me to expand the tracks that are already in the middle.
@@Thom-TRA Yeah, I can understand that. Track expansion with an express train would be amazing. I guess I fall into the thinking of making compromises with those 'special interest parties' that brush off rail solutions due to high cost, and then proceed to do nothing to actually improve the situation-or come up with ridiculous false-solutions like drone-copters or a hyper-loop. Express buses aren't perfect but they're something. Better than sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the Kennedy. Also, could possibly be completed in our lifetimes. Just something to think about.
As RM Transit would say that EVTOL thing or whatever that is would be considered a gadget bahn, and will not do good for Chicago, what the city should do is improve and expand their public transportation system like major upgrades and extending the line heck even buying new equipment, and that Crossrail Chicago proposal must be under consideration as well
Chicago sounds preety dope
I watched this video earlier and then had a thought about your pricing from downtown to the airport. You talked about the price of taking an evTol to the airport. Uber etc adding around 70 dollars to the cost of your travel. you would also have to factor in an additional 70 dollars or so for your return trip.
Good point, thanks for bringing that up!
High winds, snows storms, air traffic control overload, just to name a few. Stupid idea.
Three cheers for the miserable Chicago weather
I usually support our governor, but in this instance,he is wrong.
By the way, the US is not the wealthiest country in the world. It is Luxembourg.
That's per capita, the US is the net wealthiest
This specific service might have some viable transit alternatives, but it's also a good starting point to develop the concept. Ultimately EVTOL aircraft might provide a lot of the short hop air service as city-to-city flights instead of airport-to-airport, eliminating both short haul jet flights and medium haul car trips. Could regional rail provide a similar service? Sure, but in the current state that's a very limited and slow option. Most people do opt to drive from Chicago to Peoria instead of taking a 5 hour bus trip. Imagine if that only took 90 minutes and had zero emissions?
The Chicago Vertiport doesn't get any public funding as far I can find. Is United or Vertiport getting any state or city money for the project? The FAA is funding some EVTOL and Vertiport development, but I don't know if this project gets any of the FAA funds. Let the private companies pour money into this so the state and the city can spend our money on good transit and not have to deal with people who'll never take it demanding direct freeways between every city in Illinois.
Also from Chicago over here. I'm curious to see how Brandon Johnson improves transit and bike infrastructure. Rahm Emanuel (as much as I didn't like him) was one of the best mayors in recent times in regards to these projects and policies. Lori was terrible for transit/biking.
And no, I'm not interested in having a political debate about the mayors. I only brought it up to talk about their views/policies on biking/transit.
Out of all the candidates, he seemed the most open to increased funding for transit. I don’t think we’ll have 8 new L lines quite yet, but things certainly won’t get worse.
Absolute madness Thom 😂 #AmericanThings
What’ll they think of next, a cable car over a river? 😜
@@Thom-TRA or a train that goes underground!
I'm sure somebody else has probably mentioned this in the comments already but where I see VTOL's being really useful is for emergencies where are the fire departments are having trouble getting equipment 40 stories up on a highrise and the elevators are broken. The same idea for emergency evacuation's. Until we have better battery chemistry I see no way that we could use these VTOL's for transit over buses and trains which our orders of magnitude more efficient.
Exactly! There’s plenty of great applications for this technology. Like getting people from remote communities to airports.
This just isn’t it.
Yeah and it's hella dangerous when they eventually crash into each other or frustrated people shoot at them or shine Lazer pointers at the pilots
Excellent arguments for improving transportation between downtown and O’Hare. If more Chicagoans had experienced the excellent airport transportation in other countries, especially Japan, they might be demanding changes in Chicago.
I love the Keisei Skyliner to Narita Airport, used to ride it all the time. And the Rapit to KIX in Osaka is the #1 train on my bucket list.
I think a good case study for this proposal might be Blade here in NYC. Granted they use traditional helicopters, but there are a lot of similar issues at play.
I also wonder how wheelchair accessible those eVTOLs are. I'm guessing not much.
Probably not at all
NASCAR's Chicago street race is a better option than having VTOLs in Chicago. If only the layout was thoroughly tested before being announced though...
The idea that this trip would be as cheap as an Uber is absolutely ridiculous. First of all, Uber isn't profitable. Second, the energy needed to keep ~2 tons airborne will be way, way higher than that of a car. Third, pilots will have a significantly higher salary than drivers. Fourth, the research, development and maintenance of a small fleet of these new helicopters will not even be comparable to a fleet of mass-produced cars. There's probably a million other reasons why this wouldn't work economically. ON TOP OF THAT, there's a million non-economic reasons, some of which you touched on in the video.
There is no way it would be that cheap, based on the images provided it looks like a low capacity. Which when you considered the FAAs severe level of safety regulations the maintenance will be cripplingly expensive for their low capacity. Which will make it's way down to ticket prices that will absolutely be like $100-200.
I guess United's trying to influence the CTA to discontinue the Blue Line to O'Hare, LOL. It's not going to work. Taking the El to O'Hare may take 45 minutes from the Loop, but it totally beats trying to navigate through downtown Chicago and get caught in traffic on the Kennedy Expressway. The solution to this is leave extra early to add in the travel time. Those "e-copters" are a financial disaster waiting to happen if they were to occur.
They should instead construct a new train terminal next to the Milwaukee District west. Not only will it relieve congestion from the Blue line and remove difficulties from the NCS line but it would also allow Milwaukee District west trains to have access to O'hare Airport, Amtrak trains would also get access to O'hare, and Electrification more easily be implemented since you don't have to deal with Canadian National and an airport express can easily be implemented and access to the terminals via O'hare ATS.
I presume there is some sort of airport train that would lose it's monopoly if that happened. Which then means they'll lobby relentlessly to keep the status quo.
@@FadkinsDiet If Canadian National wasn't such an Asshole there wouldn't be a need for an additional terminal
This idea seems pretty terrible given it's location. Also, rich people are usually flying out of the executive airport up by Northbrook.
FYI, for the CTA, each car is considered as "comfortable" with 61 passengers per car (or 488 passengers per train).
It's not terrible in my POV it's kind of distinctive but this would fit goodly for areas e.g. South Korea, Japan or the advanced countries.
We need to be more and more efficent with out energy in the future. And some think, the most energy consuming mode of transportation (helicopter) should be the solution? Nope, that's the most efficent mode of transportation: the railway!
0:43 So that Chicago River colored into green thing wasn't just from The Fugitive?
Even so, yeah, that eVTOL thing is really dumb and appears to be a safety hazard for the airplanes around O'Hare, and I'm not gonna lie, I honestly think that either an expansion of Metra's north central service, or making some sort of Blue Line express service.
Also if this were an Adam Something video he'd definitely work the eVTOL around to make it into a train. And I am certain that he's probably doing it (or has done it).
While these are cool vehicles,they are not the best for this situation!
Working on the roads and rail systems would make more sense!
Your ideas are what they need to do!
realistically, I can see the EVTOLs basically just being a weird supplemental service, kind of akin to rideshare. I see little likelihood that this system will be scalable as mass transit, basically being pods and all. I see why someone would think it's cool, but that's about where the system's appeal ends. Just take the damn train like everyone else
Like I said, I’ll try it for fun once. Then it’s back to making decisions my wallet will appreciate.
Oh shoot! I’m about to miss my flight! Let me call an Uber to get me to Little Italy, then wait in line, then go through security, then board a tiny plane, then walk to my big plane! That will fix it!
@@Lildizzle420 You're not a Clown. You're the Entire Circus
okay, hear me out, what if we make a new project and just call it electric hover vtol superhighways, but just... build a bunch of train lines with futuristic looking fiberglass shells that make it look like they're flying. if they can be fooled into thinking that hundreds of eVTOLs will meaningfully impact anything even slightly related to MASS transit, they can be fooled into building trains if you make them look futuristic enough.
I say let's try it
I live in Chicago in these VTOLs seem to be one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of. We have had helicopter service between the loop and O'Hare, but Mayor Daley senior ended this because he thought it was too dangerous which it is. We already have convenient rail service to both airports, and they work well in all types of weather. Let's end this project right now, just because a couple of FatCats want to look cool.
Agreed
Yeah, I don't see why they can't just increase the frequency of the trains to O'Hare. It seems like it would be easier and cheaper.
They gotta find people to work. As a daily blue line commuter: please find them soon!
I constantly scream in my head "ELECTRIFY ALL THE METRA LINES AND MAKE THE YELLOW LINE A WEST ALIGNED NORTH SOUTH LINE THAT CONNECTS ALL THE OTHER L LINES (AS WELL AS CONNECT THE BROWN LINE TO THE BLUE LINE AT JEFFERSON PARK, AMONG OTHER INTRALINE CONNECTIONS). ALSO EXPAND SOUTH SHORE LINE AND REINSTATE THE BORTH SHORE LINE TO MILWAUKEE.
Lastly, I don't even care about high speed rail, can we JUST PLEASE get the Keystone Corridor extended all the way to Chicago (and electrified) and have the Wolverine service electrified and run medium speed ACS-64 Amtrak trains between Chicago/Detroit and Chicago/NEC.... That's all I want.
Just generally add new Metra and CTA lines as well as increase service cadence. Electrify electrify electrify ... Reroute all nonsense funding from shit like eVTOLs and gigahighways (and shit like the O'Hare ring road). That's all I want.
Honestly Good Luck getting any politician to do any of these things and Good luck getting Congress to approve all of this.
Bring this up to the new mayor-elect of Chicago
Johnson seems like one of the most pro-transit of all the candidates who ran
You tell 'em, Thom.
Thank you haha
Agree, it's a very bad idea.
This is j ust a repeat of the helicopter airlines of the 1950s to 1970s
It was proven to not be viable outside of a very limited selection of routes then (without incredible subsidies) & it'll probably just be proven again
The only hope is that your ground crew is reduced since you don't need fuel, just charge. Your maintenance is reduced since your engines have a different and simpler maintenance regime. And automation on the flight deck makes the dispatch and landing and high traffic flight environment manageable. I doubt these savings make the concept better enough to be a good alternative.
@@Lildizzle420 it's still not going to change how much energy anything that flies inherently needs & how much more energy is needed for vertical take off. Or how incredible the amount of maintenance anything that flies needs, Helicopters are even worse for this & tiltrotors even worse than helicopters. These things cannot safely spend more than 1 hour flying for every 2-6 hours of maintenance.
This hasn’t been introduced in even one major metro area. What alternate timeline are you living in?
@@Lildizzle420 You end up spending so much extra on the vehicles, the guidance systems, the vertiport facilities, etc that it's utterly unfeasible. How cheap do you think a hypothetical 20 or 30 person air shuttle can be? And how many of them would you need in order to offer adequate service?
@@Lildizzle420 it saves energy vs regular helicopters but vertical take off/landing has always been incredibly inefficient & consumes a ton of energy vs almost every other part of flight while limiting payload a ton
Chicago needs a train that circles throughout the city that connects all the lines together
It really does! An inner one and an outer one
@@Thom-TRA where do you think would be the best locations for them? That would be so awesome.
I live in Edgewater, so the red line helps out a lot, but if I want to go to let's say wicker park or Logan square, it's a nightmare.
VTOLs would be fine for getting passengers from smaller towns and cities to much larger hubs. There is a caveat though, and these services would likely need to he funded by the Essential Air Service. Let's take the cities of Peru, Sterling, DeKalb, Pontiac, and Kankakee, for instance. One could go to their downtown heliport, park for free, go through TSA in these small towns instead of Chicago, and connect to several world class airlines quickly.
Exactly, these are great for more sparsely populated areas and would make a lot of people more mobile
A few days like today in Chicago (high and gusty winds) will stop those transfers. Only going to get worse with time.
Yeah the weather change the past 24 hours has been wild
@@Thom-TRA it’s the equivalent of the Boring company with wind shear