Nikon D850 vs D5 - Focus & 3D Tracking
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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My autofocus never shifted away from Stephanie
his neither, that's why he is giggling in every video together with her :P
Lol😂
IKR he's got a thing for asian looking chicks.
Same here
lol, all these comments
Her smile lights up the world.
I noticed people complaining about Nikon's 3D autofocus setting in the comments so I thought I would add something to the discussion. I used to to not like using 3D in my D3s and now my D5 but later learned I was not using it correctly. This is very important, with the meter on and the center point focus point lit up, you must place the lit up focus point on your subject then press and hold down the shutter release half way or press and hold down the af-on button. the 3D has now locked on to the subject and will follow it.
I never knew this tid bit of info and thus when I used 3D it wouldn't work correctly. I'm not saying everyone who doesn't like 3D doesn't already know this but some probably don't know.
yes I have encountered a small focus point in the center, but in which side of the setting I forgot, now I haven't found it, my body is Nikon D500
Just recently switched from Nikon Z6ii to Nikon D5 and is unbelievable how good for sports is the D5. I am not a professional photographer but love to shoot anything really. I do miss the flip screen and a few other features like EVF but Love the D5.
I would like to see Matt do some runs
😅
and kicks ;-)
he would like to do some runs too.
i don't know if I'd like to see it but yeah, he should 😅
It would me sick!
I shot a high school football game last night to test a D850 and a D810 on a field with only four light poles. I tested with a Nikon 2.8 70-200mm and a 24-70mm because they are a part of the holy trinity of lenses. If you are well positioned, you can often get plays that come right at you, just like the papers want.
I shoot continuous AF-C in single point when the play is far downfield to ensure that the AF stays on the one player. Likewise AF-C Group AF was right on when the ball was closer. I shot AF-C 9-pt or 25-pt dynamic with great results when I can be within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage . I reversed lenses and bodies at half time.
The D850 nailed fous 9 out of 10 times, 8/10 in the shadowy end zones. The D810 was 7 or 8 out of 10. Try 3-D just once for close, mid, or long range in these cases and you would never do it again. The D810 nails focus 10/10 time under college stadium lights or daylight.
I got the same results in dimly lit gyms for basketball and volleyball with the D810. 3D BAD. I don't know anyone who uses 3D tracking for sports because 3D zeros in on the contrast of the referees' black and white shirts.
Sidenote 1: The D810 ISO 3600 is grainy. The D850 is cleaner at 6400 ISO and usable to 12k ISO. The D5 ISO is great at 52k.
Sidenote 2: The D850 30 frames per second was perfect for getting extra point kicks with the ball just leaving the foot.
Sidenote 3: Matt used 3D Auto-Focus with a model bouncing towards him. I have never shot that sport.
I've shot sports for about 7 years, and I agree, the 3D tracking on Nikon cameras just wasn't worth using for sports. I tried it both with the D810 and D5, and went immediately back to either single point or 9 point AF. In 2020, it seems better with the Sony A9ii, but honestly I still prefer the good old Nikon single or 9 point AF way.
Boy that gal sure is photogenic!
Matt,May I suggest that the focus comparison you did (D5 vs D850)
has more to do with the battery voltage than the camera itself. You
can hardly expect to throw heavy glass elements around as fast with 7 volts as
you can with a 10.8 volt battery. Try it again but with the battery grip.
I don't think it has to do with the lens. The camera body itself couldn't figure out which AF point to use. You can see this when the squares don't follow her. If it were a lens speed issue, the focus should have caught up with her eventually, but it never did. Also, the lens isn't moving that much.
@@thingsdemystified People talking about the battery voltage/grip add on d850 will improve the af performance. You are talking about lens, form which planet are you from?
I'm not surprised, had the same experience with the D810 action tracking comparison with the D4
Excellent video, Matt. Thanks to both you and Stephanie for making it.
Terrific test that looked and sounded great! And, most importantly, it seemed to demonstrate the difference in autofocus performance between the two cameras. Bravo!
Larry Luke the specs say they are the same.
I love how you test it Matt, this reveal more than ads do, great work!
BTW, the girl is cute.
Hi Matt.
I just want to add another vote for doing the test with the d5 battery in the d850 grip too (at 9fps happily).
The d5 battery of course delivers more voltage, which is what allows the d850 to actuate the shutter faster. My d700 (anecdotally) focusses better with the grip and the higher voltages that brings, than with the standard battery.
I could imagine the processor to work faster as well as the body simply being able to drive the lens motor faster improving AF performance.
Thanks
Well there were just too many differences for this to be a good test. A better test would be to make sure the D850 had the grip with the EN EL18 battery so both cameras would be using the same voltage. You also should set the D850 to use an image size as close as possible to the much smaller D5 sensor resolution. Its logical moving 45MP around vs 20MP using the same CPU will be slower. It would also be very interesting to test it against a D500 where the buffer will not fill up and has a similar sensor resolution. So how bout a quick test like that Matt?
I think the problem here is the 3d af - i never use it. I find it pretty unreliable even on my d5. it is ok for slow moving subjects . you would be far better to put d9 or the group on her face and hold it there . I would love to see that comparison .
Ian S agree 100%. I tried 3D AF for about 5 minutes of one event and said NOPE...back to group area AF or D9 or D25
Exactly...i never use 3D , its awfully erratic and unreliable
To give Nikon some credibility, they even state it in the manual
pg.99-100 for 3D tracking:
"with subjects that are moving erratically
from side to side (e.g., tennis players)"
they also stated that if the subjects goes out of frame the tracking will fail.
That said, on a D850 you have to be more careful on what AF mode to use, and it will still be slightly worse then the flagships like a 1Dx 2 or the D5.
This is where the A9 runs rings around the nikons, its 3d tracking is out of this world
I don't know anyone who uses 3D tracking for sports because 3D zeros in on the contrast of the referees' black and white shirts. Try AF-C in single point when far away. AF-C Group AF when closer. AF-C 9-pt or 25-pt dynamic when very close.
No matter what camera/lenses you want to review in the future, please do keep Steph.
She's beautiful!
To do a fair test why didn’t you wait to use the extra more powerful grip?
That would have put the two cameras on a more levelled playing field .
If the 850 performed better than the d5 in every aspect than there would be much
point to continue the production of the d5.
I doubt Nikon wanted the D850 to compete against one of their own. It is still an impressive body as you said. This video is useful for sports or action photographers if they were thinking of picking the D850 up as their workhorse vs. something more expensive like the D5 or equivalent body from other manufacturers. Hope you could also test it further tracking race cars or planes at an airshow to get really exhaustive with the AF and Tracking tests.
Astonishing result. There is nothing better than a real world test
Great illustration, cheers for sharing this Matt, great job.PS always enjoy your videos!
I think its worth rewatching this without sound, id still give it a thumbs up. Stephanie is just a serotonin boost
This was really cool to watch
does the additional battery grip help? since it boosts the frames from 7 to 9
Great video. D5 is good sport camera. I’d like to see landscape test and portrait 👍🏻
Very fair comment - they are different cameras. And where the D5 shines in some areas, the D850 sure does in others.
I found the same with the D500, meant to be the same D5 AF system but 3D tracking was always poor.
Matt: both use separated dedicated processor to process AF. So, if you use full frame of D850 which is 47 Mpix though. You should have set D850 to DX mode that is 20 Mpix, which is apple-to-apple comparing with D5. I think it is fair to say...
good one Matt . really helped view through the hype of d850.
I'd like to see this test with the D850 using the battery grip with the D5 battery -- the higher voltage might/should drive the AF motor faster making tracking better.
Great Job Matt. I want the same test for tracking D5 - D500 !!
I'm still using a D800,which works great for me. I want to upgrade to a D850 rather than the Z7ll for three reasons: the D850 is now showing up used in near new condition at significant savings; The battery lasts longer in the D850; and I don't need an adapter to continue using my current lenses.
I like to see Sony A9 to join this competition :D
I am really dissapoint with focus tracking of d850 d5 seems look good thank you matt!
How does the D850 tracking compare with the D500 ?
I know this was mentioned in the comments, but this test should also be done with the D850 + MB-18 (once released) + EN-EL18b vs D5.
I would love to see this same test, or your thoughts (Matt), on the D4s vs the D850. I'm in the market for a new body, and leaning towards the D4s (need really good AF for fast action dogs).
I'm just surprised she didnt break your camera with that infectious smile. Thanks for the real world test, i just got back from Laguna Seca shooting Motorcycles and worked on many focus settings with the D850 and a D3. I found similar results with the D3 doing better at follow focus and the D850 lacking on its buffer.
Thank you Matt for your review. I own a D4s for the past 4 years and sometimes not happy with the continues focusing. Also sometimes it struggles to hunt in low light. I use the holy trinity lenses. Any recommendations that I should get the D5 in replacement of D4s. Kind of reluctant to switch to Z6 as the focus tracking is not as good as D4s.
Thanks for clearing this up Matt. You nailed it. 👌🏼🙌🏼 AF and high ISO is important to me so D5 it is.
I just have to say this because it's my strong opinion, and i think it matters for anyone concerned with AF performance of the D850 or D5 or other Nikons. The Default AF setup of the D850, is probably more adjusted towards static, or less erratically moving subjects. There are settings that adjust the behavior of the 3D Tracking. If this test had been done with the " Blocked shot AF Response" set to 1 instead of the default of 3, along with the subject motion set to erratic, than I think this test could have gone differently. It only makes sense that Nikon would set the default settings to slightly different purposes between the D5 and D850. If this had been tested under different circumstances with the default settings, than its possible the D850 would have out performed with a less erratically moving subject. However, a setting change makes a world of difference, as these cameras come out of the box designed to do different things. They should both be able to match each other ability when setup properly. However I could be wrong, and maybe the D850 is still handicapped in some way. We won't know this for sure however until someone who owns these cameras tests them with different settings.
It's not that the D850 is handicapped. The D5 just has far more processing power for its AF system.
I see some comments similar to mine but as a Nikon D850 owner and *not* a D5 owner, i would certainly be curious how the D5/D850 perform when the D850 has the battery grip (when they give mine to me!) and when the D850 is scaled to similar resolutions...
Not saying the D850 will behave any differently, but it'd still be interesting to see.
And no, you may not have my D850... love it too much.
+Bubba da Hut ok. But that's not comparing them at the stock (& optimal) state
agreed on that fully. just a curiosity point really.
the D5 is the D5 for a reason.. D850 absorbed features. I know all too well that it has to have compromises somewhere. Just curious if anything changes if they are on similar settings. But you're right that stock on both is still a very fair comparison. Nikon never said "It's got the D5 focus system, but doesn't work the same" :) all we know is it has the D5 focus system-ish :) and your tests i agree show that it's not performing the same at this point in the same scenes.
Try D850 with EN-EL18 in MB-D18 grip.
Blackout time is shorter, so af system can "see" subject for a longer time. Performance equalizes.
Very, very interesting - of course my D750 is more than enough for my needs and budget (less so, perhaps, desires), so I'm only watching this because it looks like such fun, and because of Steph's black belt smile. :)
Loved the test. Loved her bubbly energy.
I think you missed something Matt. You did not mention how many megapixels the D8 50 was set on doing the tracking. As you know the D5 has half the megapixels and therefore can work and record quicker. If you set the amount of megapixels in the D850 to equal what is in the D5 then possibly it can track just as fast as the D5. can you try that please.
Can you speculate WHY the D5 is better? Different sensor but that doesn’t matter with PDAF. Same AF module and processor? So what specifically makes the D5 better?
my view Mike is this has a lot to do with the data being processed. The D5 RAW file is 45Mb and the D850 100Mb. @MattGranger shot jpeg too but that misses the point as the camera still has to process all that data. They share the same processor. It would have been interesting if he'd changed to medium RAW. It might not help for the reasons above but Nikon have been very clever giving that option.
Very well tested, I thought. Most will never run into situations that and lack in the 850 will ever be noticed. I for one, very seldom have a crazy person running directly at me while taking pictures. 😃
Great video, you should do another where you compare the D5 and the D850 with the new grip, maybe that 9 fps mode, boost also the autofocus acquisition and the tracking .....
Hi, same result with the D500. It could be related to the Battery, maybe the processor is running faster. Maybe if you happen to have access to the grip you may want to chek. Exelent findings. The other issue is the number of pixels: maybe the processor has less free time to devote to the AF. Steph is simply great. It was a fantastic person for the colaborations. She is not only super beatiful, she is atletic, smart and good sport and the camera loves her.. Dificult to want anything else for a Photography channel.
Did you use the exact same lens for both test? Otherwise it wont be apples to apples. The lens plays an important role in tracking and focus speed.
Very interesting. The results beg the question of why, the difference in performance? I added my own sound effects...dah dah dah dah....di di di di... for Steph's bionic performance.
That smile and those dimples----forgot we were even talking about cameras! Ironically this video was about
focus, clearly I need to focus.
Is it possible to put both cameras side by side and shoot movement simultaneously? For example, twin cameras taking photos of birds would show nature photographers the most accurate comparisons. Keep up the the good (and critical) work.
What AF mode is he using, I'd be using group or D25, didn't look like either. Also how did they compare at same res. Resample D850 to 20MP or D5 to 46MP. With smaller battery D850 will not drive lens as fast at least with superteles, not sure about the 70-200.
It would be nice a comparison like this between the D5 and de D500!
I wonder if the high megapixel count of the D850 just shows the out of focus shots more than the lower megapixel D5?
+John Smalldridge That's why is showed the actual tracking through viewfinder.
Matt, you should have tested on the medium RAW so the image size is close. They share the same processor but the D850 is processing several times the data so logically will be slower. It's the same processor doing three times to workload so lagging is logical.
Jon Godfrey Well, not really. The D5 is taking a hell of a lot more shots, so it cuts both ways. The AF couldn't keep up, simple as that. Also, the D850 had to be shot as jpgs because the buffer was too small; is a 45.7MP jpg larger than a 20.8MP raw file? Probably not.
this probably has to do with processing power. the AF module hardware is the same but main processor is the issue. Nikon clearly states in their website that D5 and D500 has dedicated AF processors but no details about the nos of processors in the D850 or is it using a different AF processors etc.? But it looks like it only has one… needs to be verified. The D850 could be using shared/common processor. this is the same for Canon. Both 1DX2 and 5D4 uses the same AF module but the 1DX2 has 3 processors and the 5D4 has 2 processors.
Thx for good video, I think key aspect for this results is sensor readout time. It is impossible to read almost 50 megapixels as fast as 20 without stock sensor technology, it is also optimized for low noise readout (for great dynamic range) which is completely different from D5 core idea.
If you think about autofocus as PDAF sensor unit then yes ;), but if you think about autofocus as process of grabbing perfect sharp images fast, then it start being much more complex term :)
Excellent video! well done ☺️
Do You understand a shutter blockout time ? Take MB-D18 and EN-EL18 inside it. Much shorter blackout time much better Tracking AF results.
Im blown away by stephanie, she's 👍
The problem with this test we don't know nothing about inner settings on both cameras if I'm not mistaken one is with grip another is not & different voltage between both of them than resolution come in & processor workout... So the whole test is so so... Hehehe just one guy idea
+ker der Settings identical.
Let the D850 recalls begin.
Good review matt
AF tune the lens on the D850 and your results will be better, I had the same issue on my D850, it back focused a hair on the non VR version of the 24-70
Thanks so much for doing this. Given that the D850 has the 'same' autofocus system as the D5, this came as a surprise to me. Question though: How does this compare to the D500 or even the Sony A6500? I only occasionally need to track fast moving objects, so the D5 feels like overkill to me. And how do they compare to the A7Rii? I know, you can't studio test just everything, but usually your intuitive feeling wouldn't be so wrong.
I just gotta say that it is rather difficult to be able to kick with that much weight on her feet - that's quite impressive.Were any shots done without the shoes on? to see the difference her movement as well?
The marketing issue is ; Nikon could sell D5 at $6,500 if the D850 (at $3,300) is as good in term of focus tracking in sport action ? and a main bonus which is a 46.5Mpixels sensor ?
But, may be the marketing guys think there is not enough to justify the $3,200 price difference in the USA. I think that the marketing target of the D850 was to produce an astonishing product... who should not kill the D5.
Great video, fun and informative!
All else being equal (which is), D5's mirror mechanism can move fast enough achieve 14fps. By shooting both at 7fps, D5's spend like 3x more time with mirror down, so sensor has more time to measure focus and its better to no one's suprise. My Point? While technically video tests them on equal conditions, from usability I don't think this isn't a "fair" test. Because you either A) Keep 3d tracking and take photos when something happens. OR B) shoot in "spray and pray" mode with highest burst rate possible, so that is 14fps on D5 vs 7fps on D850, because I don't think there is a realistic use case where fast focus is needed but shooter will dial down to ~7fps.
In use case A, I suspect both D5 and D850 will perform the same. If D5 still focuses better while shooting at 14fps vs D850's 7fps, then I'll be impressed.
Matt not a fair comparison the D850 without the grip has the smaller battery. I was told with the grip its much faster.
Henry Dinardo They were both set to 7fps. That's about as fair as you can make it...
perhaps should have tried lowering the resolution as it looked a little like processor lag. I wonder if it's struggling to process all that data perhaps? 20.8 vs 45 Mp? That's a tonne of additional data to keep up with... I think the EXPEED 5 processor is common to both so this might be worth a test on medium RAW (mRAW) at 25.5 MP???
Come on. On a photography channel, could we have a conversation about AF systems and not a bunch of creepy dudes objectifying this woman?
Could you do this test again with D850 using a battery grip and EN-EL18a battery? The difference of the focus tracking performances of these camera might be due to their different batteries. Update: I've just noticed that someone else already mentioned the battery difference.
I'm sure he will do but the grip is not available yet. (As of 23/9/17.)
The grip is $1,000 usd as well.
I hope he will. Anyway, I have a MB-D18 grip for D850, but do not have an EN-EL18a/b battery nor its charger. photos.app.goo.gl/wdH1SixcGbCMLdYp1
Hypatiakitten The battery grip is available since a week, I bought it in a camera store on the 17th..
Drezzzer Here. That's good to know. Here in the UK the camera is still pre order only until the end of this month! :-(
I don't recall seeing any Nikon material that said D850 AF was better or as good as D5. It clearly said same multicam system (which may or may not imply same real world performance- my interpretation) It definitely means similar attributes which is clearly the case. For dynamic range the claim was similar or better than D810 which is the actual experience from most that have done any analysis. I believe Nikon this time around has been more careful with its marketing.
All this MultiCAM stuff is all marketing. You can tell how fast an AF system is by where the body is positioned in the hierarchy. The best pro body is going to destroy everything else below it. Even older models are faster than new "prosumer" bodies.
Someone already said it but I’d like to know what the result would be with the grip and bigger battery. I have a sneaky feeling that the performance will be closer if the processors are getting more power. That may be one way the squeezed out so much more battery life out of the 850 than the 500 even at more than twice the resolution.
Man this makes me feel a lot better about how dirty I thought my mirror/sensor was all this while 05:08
Should it have tracked better using group AF instead of single point - Have heard for most action shoots, they use Group AF instead of Single Point.
Great hard working model! As for the cameras I suspect it´s the same as when i went from a D800 to the D4s, a lot less MP but they are all at home!
I would really like to know if it’s just a software issue, firmware issue, or lack of voltage that would cause it to be slower. After all it is supposed to have identical AF systems. Watching this vid makes me think this could be correctable, and close the gap between the amount of shots lost to out of focus frames.
That D5 is crazy good. Too bad you don't have an A9 in your back pocket Matt, would have loved to see how that would do on this test.
Awesome review .
Thanks for the video !
:)
Matt, please do a comparison of AF tracking between d850 and d500...
Would love to see how D850 compare to D500 in term of the focusing as well.
Hi Matt,
Out of interest, did you do any testing of the AF that wasnt using the 3D lock on AF?
E.g. holding your point over the subject and then seeing if the AF keeps up - this is often how i shoot sports rather than relying on tracking.
Also, be interested to see if the D850 in crop mode focus performance is the same as the D500
Some reviewers have said that the D500 isnt as good as the D5.... so maybe they lifted the system from the D500 instead?
+Blake Parry D500 is also same AF system as D5 - but it's the whole camera package that matters
This would be interesting to test. I've never really used 3d tracking, always single point, or 9 point. I should try the 3d though but I like control.
Note D5 ok just for close shooting ,Spray and Pray. BUT what about the tiny files size? 20 MP? when all other are at least 24 M now. D850 needs best that is Fastest lens out there to keep up with focus. and use manual mode instead of FULL AUTO everything
Slightly disappointed at the focus tracking on the 850...but not on your model choice, she is fantastic...first thoughts were Lara Croft - Tomb Raider...use her more if you can....great work as always
I wonder how group AF would have worked in this scenario on the D850...
How about scaling down the 850’s pixel count to match the d5? And everyone please keep repeating about using the grip on d850 which makes it into a much superior D5..
The best between
d850 and d5:
ME *I'M IN LOVE ALREADY*
😍😘😅
I'm curious on how the D850's Auto-focus compares to the D500.
Check the delayed auto focus on the D850 settings, and change it to quick.
This will fix your problem.
Also in her zigzag motion, set the motion track setting to “erratic” and you will find a huge difference.
Yep.
D5 hands down! My D4 in AF-C and 9 points is awesome
One thing that could be relevant is that the d5 only has less than half the pixels as the D850, so it's a lower threshold for "perfectly sharp". A more fair comparison would be the D850 @ medium size against the D5.
Just found this also which may have to do with what you see through the viewfinder.
"So far as we can tell, the only significant difference between the D850's AF system and the D5's is the viewfinder display. The D5 has an organic electro-luminescent display layer that allows it to light the active AF points as they change in 3D tracking mode, the D850 has an LCD layer on which the points only light up when they're manually moved or when focus is initiated or acquired."
www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d850-first-impressions-review/2
She has a beautifull personality. Keep up the good job. Findings are expected.
Nice review. Will you be comparing the D850 against the D750 at all as I'd like to know how the AF compares, and the shutter noise actually?
when you hand held in the park, did you turn 3d AF off, or did you leave it on? Sorry, I'm unclear on that.
Great Test... and she looks so positive! Guys look good as a couple! ;)
Yes Matt but with a smaller battery. What was you shutter speed because the exposures looked different.
Probably a bit too much data to process, the d850 is probably pushing the sensor control chip to the limit, I think if having the extra battery voltage won't do much then that'll be the real problem for the slower focusing, I wonder at how much bandwidth is being used in this camera to get the images processed this fast?
I've roughly worked it out to around 1 gigabit, maybe that's why it's a bit slower.
+zagan1 IF that's the case, it's worth noting I changed the 850 to just jpeg, and d5 was raw+jpeg