You are the only person who I trust when it comes to RC Heli's. Your books and videos made learning to fly helicopters accessible and kept the frustration to a minimum. Thank you for everything you do for the hobby.
Thnx John for all your help. Your books and videos got me flying, which I’ve been trying to do for a while. Your info made the process much much easier and enjoyable to learn! Thnx again!
Even if I went to OpenTX university for eight years there is exactly ZERO chance of me understanding what you so clearly explained in this video. Your mind operates on another level. Are you like Elon? Part Alien ;-)
Finally got my Heli in the air. Reverted the radio Firmware to 2.6. Had to manually move the channel outputs around until I got the right servo's moving... Then it was just a matter of reversing some servo directions to get it doing what it's supposed. Massive learning curve. Would have been absolutely impossible without your tutorials. Thanks for the great videos.
Hey John, how are you? Not sure if you remember me but five or six years ago you helped me build a really killer model of the ESP 600 with you building the frame and may supply any electronics of my choice. I just wanted to let you know again That I truly think you are the expert when it comes to anything to do with a RC Helicopters, including Mike Rowe, scale, basically anything you name. For anybody out there who’s not familiar with John Salt I’m a helicopter builder myself and I always reference either his videos or his website. You cannot go wrong by working with such a class act human being, who is always looking for ways to improve everything about the RC hobby, including looking over items that are brand new straight out of the box. Anyway, I wanted to again thank you John for working with me I just to let you know that I still follow you all these years later and I genuinely appreciate how easy it was to work with you back in oh 16. Sincerely, Todd Baumer (New Jersey, USA) please keep putting out as many videos as you can find the time to do. All they do is benefit every single person that takes the time to watch a channel. I wish nothing but the best for you buddy. Hope to talk to you soon!
This is great, thank you! This information is not easy to find, and most people will tell you just to not bother doing CCPM in OpenTX/EdgeTX. This is not nearly as difficult as I had expected. I'm going to be using a TX16 w/ ExpressLRS to fly my Raptor 50. Just waiting for summer!
It works great. The Raptor uses mechanical mixing, so there's really nothing special going on in EdgeTX, just throttle and pitch curves. I would recommend a throttle governor on the 600N if it doesn't already have one. That takes a lot of the guesswork out of your curves and takes care of the throttle for you.@@Zillawill
@@MontegaB thanks, I'll take a look see if it has one when I take it apart to rebuild it, at moment only thing I know for sure is it has Spektrum servos, and a Futaba tail + GY401 gyro
I love the video all of them , i uave learned alot but i was hoping you could do a gyro video and programing to different values as you change flight modes. I understand some but i have not understooo programing to match gyro to mode flight . If i could down load your program to my radio i would lol
Hi John, I enjoy your videos! I especially enjoyed your books. Got me hovering with your recommended heli setup values. I recently switched over to a TX16s tx and watching your videos helps cutting thru the fog. I wanted to ask you where you got your Sound Pack for your TX? I like some of the comments your TX makes. I like to get a hold of the Sounds. Thnx
@al can - it's the "Amber" sound pack. Found the link at OpenTX University's web site. I'm sure a bit of Google searching and you'll find several other sources for Amber as well.
@@Rchelicopterfun Hey John, I've got my TX all set up, but my heli doesn't want to react the same way as it should. i checked the channel monitors, and it all works fine. I'm using an AR620 receiver with the 3GX. Elevator works fine, rudder works fine, but something is wrong with the collective. it just doesn't want to do what i tell it to. The motor is beeping, and my Aileron seems to act 1:1 to the throttle. i've made sure now 5 times that they are plugged in correctly into the 3GX. does channel mapping matter to the AR620? I'm at a loss :/ I feel so dumb lol EDIT: I switched Elevator and Throttle on the receiver, now it works. I'm going to recheck if they are plugged in correctly into the 3GX since it's still not working as it should. 3GX is such a pain lol!
fantastic I finally understood I understand this radio. listen helicopter with flybar we use this method, if I connect a helicopter without flybar does all the flybarless... the right method for a flybarless is to associate pitch curves only at channel 6? (and in case of spirit gt, brain etc page HELI SETUP I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS) ??
Hey John excellent video really helped from switching radios my question is I have a governor on my nitro motor which adjust with my older transmitter how do I go about setting that up ? And also gyro gains this heli is align 600dfc with 3gx flybarless thanks
No idea on governor throttle channel output as they are all different - go by your governor instructions for what it wants for throttle channel output and then adjust your throttle curves or channel output % accordingly. Their is only one remote gain setting on the 3GX - tail gain. You would set it as any other remote tail gain setting. Tail gain channel is RX & FBL dependent, but on the 3GX it should be channel 7. If so, you would set your channel 7 travel output/s for the specific tail gain you want (enough to give good tail lock while avoiding oscillation). Cyclic gain on the 3GX is adjusted on the unit via the pitch & roll (elevator & aileron) potentiometers.
Great video and easy to follow. I still don't know if I understand the difference between internal and external CCPM mixing. I have an Align 700, 700 with Align 3GX flybarless systems. Which mixing setup method should I be using?
@William B. - The Align 3G & 3GX flybarless units have no internal CCPM mixing so the mixing has to be done within the radio. You would therefore use the internal radio mixing template outlined in this video.
@@Rchelicopterfun Thank-you John. I rewatched part1 and noticed you actually mention that the 3GX setup requires internal mixing. Very well done videos. Thank-you very much!
First of all THANKS for the vids been out of it for a few years and going right to EdgeTX (raw) you have made it easier BUT I do have a question. You on the Heli setup page you set your ELE to operate around the Longit. axis, I have always been taught the Long. axis runs length wise and movement around such is called roll controled by the Aileron. Can yu explain your reason for this, I realize in CCPM they are just wires coming off a RX but I am woundering the possible ramifications with a FBL unit where the things are hard wired with not as much versatility as ccpm? ALSO I probably have missed it in my ignorance but when I attempt to set the sources to the different CYC channels I have NO option for CYC1,2,3. I have them in companion and can create them there but not in the radio itself, what did I miss?
Not sure I understand your question. Aileron / cyclic roll is always left-right stick movement - just like in a full size aircraft. Elevator / cyclic pitch is always up-down, again just like the control stick in a full size aircraft. If you don't have those cyclic mix options, perhaps you didn't uncheck "no heli" in the build options; that or Edge TX is different? Since I don't use Edge myself, I can't comment on that possibility either way.
Hi John I am new to radio master tx16s. For the last 10 years I have been using spectrum radios. I followed your video most of it was work except channel 2. Trying to set up my flybard trex 500.i have got in the right muddle. Could you please send me your settings for a flybar helicopter this is a headache for me lol😃
Appreciate if you could help answer my doubts: Looking at the radio monitoring, the elevator servo always moves twice percentage as much as the alileron and pitch servos. I am confused if it is correct on bench.
Recall you your basic trigonometry. Pit & Ail are at a tangential angle. The math is fully covered in OpenTX University how the mixing sin & cos calculations are done on the tangents of the swash. Here is a link to the CCPM trig calculations page on their site: open-txu.org/home/special-interests/helicopter/ccpm-for-taranis/ Now you understand why I'm a huge fan of OpenTX U.
Thank you for your nice videos John. I have a question which i find difficult to explain but here it goes. If i put all the mixes on 60 to get the desired pitches, the cyclic output channels reaches 100% before reaching the end of the max stick input. Causing strange behavour of the swashplate. To overcome that i have to put all mixes to 45 but then i don't have the desired pitches. this heli works fine on my other none open tx radio. What am i missing here?
I can't see how you would be getting over 100% on your cyclic channels (aileron & elevator) while at center/mid point on your collective if you have your CCPM mixes set to 60%? Something else is going there in your radio programming if that's the case. The 3 CCPM mix percentages will also almost always be different from 60% and will also likely be different from each other. 60% as I stated is just the starting value I use. Generally not high enough to overdrive any of the 3 swash servos, and also usually fairly close to the finalized value which is typically in the 40% to 80% range. It's all dependent on the helicopter's specific servo arm to swash geometry, and the swash to blade grip or bell mixer geometry. The actual CCPM mix values are set with your pitch gauge to get the maximum cyclic pitch and collective pitch angles your helicopter is capable of producing (listed in your heli manual) just as I explain in the Swash setup ebook.
Thanks John. Cant wit until spring to try it out. I tried the university route but my Blade 400 did not fly right. Your expanations are much better. Question, I have a Futaba GY 401 on my helicopter. Do you have a video about how to set it up with channel 5 on my Taranis to switch modes or even acitvate it? Thanks Again.
Recommended channel output for the 401 gain is explained in the instructions of the gyro and what values to start with. You would simply change the channel travel in the output screen of the radio for whatever channel you are controlling tail gain with to match the gain setting you want to start at along with what toggle you want to use. For example if you want to start at 75%, you would set the output to value to 50% because OpenTX uses the -100 to +100 travel range scale (cover conversions between the two scales in my setup & tips ebook if you have it). You could also use curve programming to set the gain outputs or weighted settings in the mix edit menu for that channel. If you really want to get ambitious, hook your gain channel up to one of the dials for variable output adjustment. You can then really fine tune the gain. Once you have it spot on, look at your channel output for that channel (not moving the dial) to see what the output is and then set the fixed output level for that channel. These are just a few ideas as there are many ways to set the channel output level with opentx. Others that come to mind are logical switch programming or simply mix your gain channel to your flight mode toggle so you have different tail gains at different head speeds - that is likely the best final option once you have experimented with tail gain settings at your various head speeds and now which work best. Setting up your tail gain channel output is only limited by one's imagination 🙂
@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks John. Rally appreciate the help. I will look into the manuel for the gyro and get the numbers. Thanks very much. Best videos on the subject.
Hi John..is there anything about nitro setup on your website or ebooks? what I dont get is when a nitro starts up I would think the main blades would start spinning but in videos they dont.
They use a centrifugal clutch - explained in detail on my nitro heli page on my site: www.rchelicopterfun.com/nitro-rc-helicopter.html Setup is the same as it is for electric other than having a throttle servo getting the throttle signal over an ESC. The main heli setup & swash setup is identical all covered in the two ebooks I mention in each video. I have nothing on nitro engine setup, tuning, and carburetor tuning however which is a hobby in and of itself almost 🙂 I also made a video a while back showing my IC (internal combustion engine) idle trim method on OpenTX using the ADD multiplex function. It's on a plane but the process would be the same for a heli carburetor idle trim control: th-cam.com/video/-cK6DZfu86s/w-d-xo.html Similar idea on an OpenTX turbine heli video I did: th-cam.com/video/R77obpPpyDQ/w-d-xo.html
Hey John just setup my radio with the help of your video . Part 1 and part 2 . But how do I set the two dial S1 and S2 for PT pitch trim and TT throttle trim thank you
1. I never use pitch trim so no idea. I have only altered my pitch curves as required to obtain the desired collective ranges - collective trim was used back in the day when we didn't have programable pitch curves and thus is rarely used anymore. If you still wanted it, you would have to create an add function to that channel output most likely but that is just a guess (I'm not an Open/EdgeTX expert by any stretch). Perhaps OpenTX university has something on it? Likely a way with logical switch programming as well. 2. Throttle trim. I take it you don't want to use the digital throttle trim for that? Throttle trim is another thing that is not used much anymore, other than with IC engines in which case the throttle digital trim will work, but it's obviously very slow and tedious to dial up and down one click at a time. So if you want faster control of throttle trim output for IC engines, I did a video a while back showing one possible method on a gas plane that would also work on a nitro/gas heli: th-cam.com/video/-cK6DZfu86s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AlQz11QaI0x6Ga6I
@@Rchelicopterfun hey John I got it work . Have to make it a input . The in the mix add to the phantom Ch and it worked . Lol your the best thank you again
Yep, that's a good observation. Vario however uses 4 servo 90 (H4 swash layout), this one only supports 3 servo 90, usually called an HE3 layout which I personally don't know any brand or model using. I suppose however, it would be fairly easy with OpenTX to use the 3 servo 90 (HE3) arrangement and simply use a second elevator mix channel also using CYC1 to get your 2 elevator swash servo outputs (front & rear). Never really thought about it 🤔. Might have to try that now as you sparked the curiosity bug within 👍.
@stevealoia. I actually show throttle on both options; Ch1 in the primary part of the video because that is a Spektrum/JR channel mapping order template (TAER). At the end of the video, I then show the template for Futaba channel mapping order (AETR). Sorry, I don't what you mean by "is the servo still plugged into CH3". What servo? With Spektrum/JR channel mapping order (TAER), the elevator servo would need to be plugged into channel 3. With Futaba channel mapping order (AETR), the ESC, FADEC (turbine) or throttle servo/ throttle servo governor (nitro / gas heli) would be plugged into channel 3.
Mr. Salt I buy a fs-t6 radio and my friend gave me his HK 450 heli that he crash, Id like to convert the mechanism into flybarless, I've done it, my question is a fs-t6 is capable of 120⁰ ccpm with just programing the radio or need more mixing electronics to attain collective cyclic mixing? Thanks ed frm. Ph.
I've never looked at the FS-T6 specs, but as long as it says it will support helicopters, that generally means it supports a few eCCPM mix programs, with 120 degree being one of them since next to 90 degree, it's them most common. It will specify supported swash types the manual that came with your radio.
Thank U very much Sir John, I have already done, the 120⁰ swash programing but tha aeleron can't make it in right direction it always in reverse direction of flight whenever input collective soon the rpm increase and I have to correct heading the rights is left and left is right, I tried exchanging and reversing the servo but no success, and when the reverse is done the two aeleron servo is nit responding to 3rd servo as I increase the revolution it tend to over forward in respond
Yes you would since this is a helicopter template only; regardless of power type it has to be tweaked for every individual heli you setup. If you are specifically asking about the throttle channel configuration so you can have idle control of the carb (without using miserable digital trims for idle control), I've covered that in another video. th-cam.com/video/-cK6DZfu86s/w-d-xo.html It's on a gas powered RC plane, but the procedure is identical for nitro and it's exactly what I also use on my last remaining nitro heli.
To the best of my recollection, the TT Raptor 30 V2 uses mechanical swash mixing (ie. CCPM is done mechanically by the bell crank linkage system on the heli); so it would use the no internal mix OpenTX template.
Hi. I've now done this over and over and over again each time starting from scratch. I've got a Brand new Radiomaster TX16s Max V2 currently on EDGE TX 2.7.1 which I got 4 days ago. I'm trying to setup a quite old Tarot 450 V2 flybar Heli that has a Spektrum AR6210 Rx which was working(and flying) on my DX8. As far as I can tell I have done everything step by step the way you have. But for some reason it's all backwards and wrong on my Heli.. In the outputs screen I have the identical behaviours you have but on the heli, collective pitch is reversed with some odd behaviour in the Ch2 Aileron servo towards max extension. Pitch and roll is only moving the elevator and "aux" channel Aileron servo. I'm at a complete loss do you, or anyone from the community have any useful suggestions? Edit: I've swapped to a Flysky FS-IA6 Rx and getting the same results after doing a complete new setup.
As you already figured, it has nothing to do with the RX. It's due to swash mix direction (+ vs -) in combination with channel direction setting for your 3 swash servos. I cover swash mix reversals and how they relate to channel reversal in depth and how to get them all interacting correctly & in the right direction in my swash setup ebook if you happen to have it: www.rchelicopterfun.com/swashplate-setup.html Otherwise, you'll just have to play with your swash mix weight +/- values in combination with channel reversal for the 3 cyclic channels until you find the right combination of both to get all 3 servos interacting in the correct directions.
@@Rchelicopterfun I've updated the 4 in 1 module firmware and selected TAER setup.. Maybe this will make a difference seeing as it was behaving as if my servo's were connected to the wrong outputs. will update.
still no luck.. messed around a bit, seems it's outputting EATR instead of TAER ... set it up as a plane, when I swap input's around in the radio the throttle channel outputs on the elevator. something very odd going on with my radio.
Well I almost got there. When I push up on the throttle the swash goes down and the motor runs. If I reverse the throttle in model setup the swash is correct but the motor is full speed with stick down. Also gyro is only showing 2 percent on all switch positions. Any ideas please. Aha I reversed the outputs on channel 1 2 and 6 which corrected the swash.
I cover this at 4:30 and in my swash ebook if you have it. It's not channel reversing issue; it's mix weight reversing issue (using negative or positive value in your heli swash mix menu for collective). No idea on gyro output at there are many reasons this could happen in Open/EdgeTX. Common ones to check are to make sure your weight for whatever input you have your toggle assigned to is 100%. Same in the mix menu. And to make sure you have -100 to+100 in your travel screen. Of course modifying the travel output afterward to get the exact gain output (travel output) you want. Or you setup a special gain curve for a stepped travel output for gain adjustment. Other ways as well - many options with Open/edge TX.
Strange if I reverse the settings left and right etc is good but up and down are wrong. Can't get both right. I will keep playing lol. 6 hrs later I've had enough. I will check out your info.
"Going in circles" is the term I also use in the swashplate ebook. You have to approach 120 degree eCCPM interaction & mixing systematically. 1st you get all 3 servos moving in the same direction with collective stick movement by altering channel direction for whichever of the 3 servos is not moving in the same direction of the other two; unless of course they are all moving in the same direction in which case you can skip to step 2. 2nd. you get the mix directions set correctly (in terms of stick movement) with the positive or negative value of the mix % (weight).
@@Rchelicopterfun erm I almost understood that. I will probably order your pdf . I can only get get up n down correct or left right forward backward. Never both.
Thanks John that has been very helpful. However I have followed your instructions but I seem to have an issue with the collective pitch on my Align Trex 450XL; when I increase the throttle the swashplate starts tilting back and eventually all the way back. However the swashplate seems to work/move fine when I use the elevator and the ailerons. What could be wrong? To fix the above issue I reversed the elevator servo and that has made the swashplate work fine with the collective pitch. However now the swashplate tilts backwards when I give it forward elevator and vice versa which is not correct, right?
Are you following the process I show in my Swashplate eBook for setting your channel directions and weighted mix output directions (pgs 27 to 31)? If so, I show how to first set your channel directions so all 3 servos are interacting and moving in the same direction with each other with collective. Next step is setting your 3 weighted mix % polarity values (positive or negative) so the swash is moving in the correct direction corresponding to your stick movements (ie. up collective, down collective, left cyclic, right cyclic). Going by your description, this could be either your elevator channel direction needs to be reversed ( or the other two), or your elevator weight mix is set to the wrong polarity - maybe a combination. As I show in that ebook, there are two ways to achieve the same output results for each of the 3 servos dependent on channel travel direction and mix polarity.
@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks for responding. I managed to fix the issue by changing the weight to minus 60 for the elevator in the heli page. However when I reverersrd the servo for the elevator in the output page it did not help. It seems that it has to be changed in the heli page.
Part 1 of OpenTX Helicopter Setup: th-cam.com/video/XdFOndPG7xo/w-d-xo.html
Swashplate Setup & Leveling eBook: www.rchelicopterfun.com/swashplate-setup.html
You are the only person who I trust when it comes to RC Heli's. Your books and videos made learning to fly helicopters accessible and kept the frustration to a minimum. Thank you for everything you do for the hobby.
Glad to help
The bell 222 behind you is gorgeous
Thnx John for all your help. Your books and videos got me flying, which I’ve been trying to do for a while. Your info made the process much much easier and enjoyable to learn! Thnx again!
Glad to help
Super cool ! Now i can set up my Trex 450L with the Align 3GX. Thank you again for these very informative and useful OpenTX videos.
🙂
Well done on another excellent tutorial. Really appreciate it very much. Now I just need to buy a couple of your books.
Even if I went to OpenTX university for eight years there is exactly ZERO chance of me understanding what you so clearly explained in this video. Your mind operates on another level. Are you like Elon? Part Alien ;-)
Finally got my Heli in the air. Reverted the radio Firmware to 2.6. Had to manually move the channel outputs around until I got the right servo's moving... Then it was just a matter of reversing some servo directions to get it doing what it's supposed. Massive learning curve. Would have been absolutely impossible without your tutorials. Thanks for the great videos.
👍
Awesome, John! THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH! I didn't realize it was THAT 'simple'/straight forward! :)
Glad it helped
Hey John, how are you? Not sure if you remember me but five or six years ago you helped me build a really killer model of the ESP 600 with you building the frame and may supply any electronics of my choice. I just wanted to let you know again That I truly think you are the expert when it comes to anything to do with a RC Helicopters, including Mike Rowe, scale, basically anything you name. For anybody out there who’s not familiar with John Salt I’m a helicopter builder myself and I always reference either his videos or his website. You cannot go wrong by working with such a class act human being, who is always looking for ways to improve everything about the RC hobby, including looking over items that are brand new straight out of the box. Anyway, I wanted to again thank you John for working with me I just to let you know that I still follow you all these years later and I genuinely appreciate how easy it was to work with you back in oh 16. Sincerely, Todd Baumer (New Jersey, USA) please keep putting out as many videos as you can find the time to do. All they do is benefit every single person that takes the time to watch a channel. I wish nothing but the best for you buddy. Hope to talk to you soon!
🙂🙂
Thanks, this is EXACTLY the info I was looking for!
Glad to hear it.
Thank u John,
This was verry helpfull to setup my trex600n
Glad to hear it helped!
Muchas gracias por el video. Ha sido de mucha ayuda. Thank you!!!!
Very good info John, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice elicopter there in background
This is great, thank you! This information is not easy to find, and most people will tell you just to not bother doing CCPM in OpenTX/EdgeTX. This is not nearly as difficult as I had expected. I'm going to be using a TX16 w/ ExpressLRS to fly my Raptor 50. Just waiting for summer!
Have fun 🙂
Can I ask how you got on with that? I just got a old Trex 600N pretty much for free but don't really know where to start with old school flybar helis
It works great. The Raptor uses mechanical mixing, so there's really nothing special going on in EdgeTX, just throttle and pitch curves. I would recommend a throttle governor on the 600N if it doesn't already have one. That takes a lot of the guesswork out of your curves and takes care of the throttle for you.@@Zillawill
@@MontegaB thanks, I'll take a look see if it has one when I take it apart to rebuild it, at moment only thing I know for sure is it has Spektrum servos, and a Futaba tail + GY401 gyro
The GY401 is a great gyro, it's what I have in my Raptor as well. Good luck!@@Zillawill
I love the video all of them , i uave learned alot but i was hoping you could do a gyro video and programing to different values as you change flight modes. I understand some but i have not understooo programing to match gyro to mode flight . If i could down load your program to my radio i would lol
Awesome.
Hi John, I enjoy your videos! I especially enjoyed your books. Got me hovering with your recommended heli setup values. I recently switched over to a TX16s tx and watching your videos helps cutting thru the fog. I wanted to ask you where you got your Sound Pack for your TX? I like some of the comments your TX makes. I like to get a hold of the Sounds. Thnx
@al can - it's the "Amber" sound pack. Found the link at OpenTX University's web site. I'm sure a bit of Google searching and you'll find several other sources for Amber as well.
Thank you thank you THANK YOU!!!
Happy to help 🙂
@@Rchelicopterfun Hey John, I've got my TX all set up, but my heli doesn't want to react the same way as it should. i checked the channel monitors, and it all works fine. I'm using an AR620 receiver with the 3GX. Elevator works fine, rudder works fine, but something is wrong with the collective. it just doesn't want to do what i tell it to.
The motor is beeping, and my Aileron seems to act 1:1 to the throttle. i've made sure now 5 times that they are plugged in correctly into the 3GX. does channel mapping matter to the AR620? I'm at a loss :/ I feel so dumb lol
EDIT: I switched Elevator and Throttle on the receiver, now it works. I'm going to recheck if they are plugged in correctly into the 3GX since it's still not working as it should.
3GX is such a pain lol!
fantastic I finally understood I understand this radio.
listen helicopter with flybar we use this method, if I connect a helicopter without flybar does all the flybarless...
the right method for a flybarless is to associate pitch curves only at channel 6? (and in case of spirit gt, brain etc page HELI SETUP I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS) ??
Yaes nice
Hey John excellent video really helped from switching radios my question is I have a governor on my nitro motor which adjust with my older transmitter how do I go about setting that up ? And also gyro gains this heli is align 600dfc with 3gx flybarless thanks
No idea on governor throttle channel output as they are all different - go by your governor instructions for what it wants for throttle channel output and then adjust your throttle curves or channel output % accordingly.
Their is only one remote gain setting on the 3GX - tail gain. You would set it as any other remote tail gain setting. Tail gain channel is RX & FBL dependent, but on the 3GX it should be channel 7. If so, you would set your channel 7 travel output/s for the specific tail gain you want (enough to give good tail lock while avoiding oscillation). Cyclic gain on the 3GX is adjusted on the unit via the pitch & roll (elevator & aileron) potentiometers.
Congratulations again I already understood and sorry I will bother you if I buy that station greetings and thank you
Great video and easy to follow. I still don't know if I understand the difference between internal and external CCPM mixing. I have an Align 700, 700 with Align 3GX flybarless systems. Which mixing setup method should I be using?
@William B. - The Align 3G & 3GX flybarless units have no internal CCPM mixing so the mixing has to be done within the radio. You would therefore use the internal radio mixing template outlined in this video.
@@Rchelicopterfun Thank-you John. I rewatched part1 and noticed you actually mention that the 3GX setup requires internal mixing. Very well done videos. Thank-you very much!
First of all THANKS for the vids been out of it for a few years and going right to EdgeTX (raw) you have made it easier BUT I do have a question. You on the Heli setup page you set your ELE to operate around the Longit. axis, I have always been taught the Long. axis runs length wise and movement around such is called roll controled by the Aileron. Can yu explain your reason for this, I realize in CCPM they are just wires coming off a RX but I am woundering the possible ramifications with a FBL unit where the things are hard wired with not as much versatility as ccpm?
ALSO I probably have missed it in my ignorance but when I attempt to set the sources to the different CYC channels I have NO option for CYC1,2,3. I have them in companion and can create them there but not in the radio itself, what did I miss?
Not sure I understand your question. Aileron / cyclic roll is always left-right stick movement - just like in a full size aircraft. Elevator / cyclic pitch is always up-down, again just like the control stick in a full size aircraft.
If you don't have those cyclic mix options, perhaps you didn't uncheck "no heli" in the build options; that or Edge TX is different? Since I don't use Edge myself, I can't comment on that possibility either way.
Hi John I am new to radio master tx16s.
For the last 10 years I have been using spectrum radios.
I followed your video most of it was work except channel 2.
Trying to set up my flybard trex 500.i have got in the right muddle.
Could you please send me your settings for a flybar helicopter this is a headache for me lol😃
You just saved my life after days of hair pullings
Glad it helped a bit 🙂
Appreciate if you could help answer my doubts: Looking at the radio monitoring, the elevator servo always moves twice percentage as much as the alileron and pitch servos. I am confused if it is correct on bench.
Recall you your basic trigonometry. Pit & Ail are at a tangential angle. The math is fully covered in OpenTX University how the mixing sin & cos calculations are done on the tangents of the swash. Here is a link to the CCPM trig calculations page on their site: open-txu.org/home/special-interests/helicopter/ccpm-for-taranis/
Now you understand why I'm a huge fan of OpenTX U.
Thank you for your nice videos John. I have a question which i find difficult to explain but here it goes. If i put all the mixes on 60 to get the desired pitches, the cyclic output channels reaches 100% before reaching the end of the max stick input. Causing strange behavour of the swashplate. To overcome that i have to put all mixes to 45 but then i don't have the desired pitches. this heli works fine on my other none open tx radio. What am i missing here?
I can't see how you would be getting over 100% on your cyclic channels (aileron & elevator) while at center/mid point on your collective if you have your CCPM mixes set to 60%? Something else is going there in your radio programming if that's the case. The 3 CCPM mix percentages will also almost always be different from 60% and will also likely be different from each other. 60% as I stated is just the starting value I use. Generally not high enough to overdrive any of the 3 swash servos, and also usually fairly close to the finalized value which is typically in the 40% to 80% range. It's all dependent on the helicopter's specific servo arm to swash geometry, and the swash to blade grip or bell mixer geometry. The actual CCPM mix values are set with your pitch gauge to get the maximum cyclic pitch and collective pitch angles your helicopter is capable of producing (listed in your heli manual) just as I explain in the Swash setup ebook.
Thanks John. Cant wit until spring to try it out. I tried the university route but my Blade 400 did not fly right. Your expanations are much better. Question, I have a Futaba GY 401 on my helicopter. Do you have a video about how to set it up with channel 5 on my Taranis to switch modes or even acitvate it? Thanks Again.
Recommended channel output for the 401 gain is explained in the instructions of the gyro and what values to start with. You would simply change the channel travel in the output screen of the radio for whatever channel you are controlling tail gain with to match the gain setting you want to start at along with what toggle you want to use.
For example if you want to start at 75%, you would set the output to value to 50% because OpenTX uses the -100 to +100 travel range scale (cover conversions between the two scales in my setup & tips ebook if you have it). You could also use curve programming to set the gain outputs or weighted settings in the mix edit menu for that channel.
If you really want to get ambitious, hook your gain channel up to one of the dials for variable output adjustment. You can then really fine tune the gain. Once you have it spot on, look at your channel output for that channel (not moving the dial) to see what the output is and then set the fixed output level for that channel.
These are just a few ideas as there are many ways to set the channel output level with opentx. Others that come to mind are logical switch programming or simply mix your gain channel to your flight mode toggle so you have different tail gains at different head speeds - that is likely the best final option once you have experimented with tail gain settings at your various head speeds and now which work best. Setting up your tail gain channel output is only limited by one's imagination 🙂
@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks John. Rally appreciate the help. I will look into the manuel for the gyro and get the numbers. Thanks very much. Best videos on the subject.
Hi John..is there anything about nitro setup on your website or ebooks? what I dont get is when a nitro starts up I would think the main blades would start spinning but in videos they dont.
They use a centrifugal clutch - explained in detail on my nitro heli page on my site: www.rchelicopterfun.com/nitro-rc-helicopter.html
Setup is the same as it is for electric other than having a throttle servo getting the throttle signal over an ESC. The main heli setup & swash setup is identical all covered in the two ebooks I mention in each video. I have nothing on nitro engine setup, tuning, and carburetor tuning however which is a hobby in and of itself almost 🙂
I also made a video a while back showing my IC (internal combustion engine) idle trim method on OpenTX using the ADD multiplex function. It's on a plane but the process would be the same for a heli carburetor idle trim control: th-cam.com/video/-cK6DZfu86s/w-d-xo.html
Similar idea on an OpenTX turbine heli video I did: th-cam.com/video/R77obpPpyDQ/w-d-xo.html
Hey John just setup my radio with the help of your video . Part 1 and part 2 . But how do I set the two dial S1 and S2 for PT pitch trim and TT throttle trim thank you
1. I never use pitch trim so no idea. I have only altered my pitch curves as required to obtain the desired collective ranges - collective trim was used back in the day when we didn't have programable pitch curves and thus is rarely used anymore.
If you still wanted it, you would have to create an add function to that channel output most likely but that is just a guess (I'm not an Open/EdgeTX expert by any stretch). Perhaps OpenTX university has something on it? Likely a way with logical switch programming as well.
2. Throttle trim. I take it you don't want to use the digital throttle trim for that? Throttle trim is another thing that is not used much anymore, other than with IC engines in which case the throttle digital trim will work, but it's obviously very slow and tedious to dial up and down one click at a time.
So if you want faster control of throttle trim output for IC engines, I did a video a while back showing one possible method on a gas plane that would also work on a nitro/gas heli: th-cam.com/video/-cK6DZfu86s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AlQz11QaI0x6Ga6I
@@Rchelicopterfun hey John I got it work . Have to make it a input . The in the mix add to the phantom Ch and it worked . Lol your the best thank you again
So would this be my new DX6e?
awesome.could i apply to 3gx flybarless?my radio is taranis x9d.
Yes, presuming you are running OpenTX on your radio.
HI John, infinite thanks for this guide, are your templates to download somewhere? Thanks again.
Nope, that is why I went to the trouble to show them and explain them.
@@Rchelicopterfun Thank you again for your fantastic work.
Hello sir
I have walkera v450d03
Can i use radiomaster tx16s
And what method i have to use part 1 or part 2
Sorry, I don't know what protocol the RX in that heli uses and I don't know if the FBL unit has internal or external mixing.
Vario helis use 90 degrees swash connections.
Yep, that's a good observation. Vario however uses 4 servo 90 (H4 swash layout), this one only supports 3 servo 90, usually called an HE3 layout which I personally don't know any brand or model using. I suppose however, it would be fairly easy with OpenTX to use the 3 servo 90 (HE3) arrangement and simply use a second elevator mix channel also using CYC1 to get your 2 elevator swash servo outputs (front & rear). Never really thought about it 🤔. Might have to try that now as you sparked the curiosity bug within 👍.
Dumb question . On the throttle. In the radio you set throttle to ch 1 . On the receiver is the servo still plugged into CH3 . Thanks
@stevealoia. I actually show throttle on both options; Ch1 in the primary part of the video because that is a Spektrum/JR channel mapping order template (TAER). At the end of the video, I then show the template for Futaba channel mapping order (AETR).
Sorry, I don't what you mean by "is the servo still plugged into CH3". What servo? With Spektrum/JR channel mapping order (TAER), the elevator servo would need to be plugged into channel 3. With Futaba channel mapping order (AETR), the ESC, FADEC (turbine) or throttle servo/ throttle servo governor (nitro / gas heli) would be plugged into channel 3.
@@Rchelicopterfun thanks John . I have to rewatch the videos .a bit busy here today . BTW I just got your EBook for the heli setup thank you
@stevealoia - thanks for the patronage 👍 happy setup.
Mr. Salt I buy a fs-t6 radio and my friend gave me his HK 450 heli that he crash, Id like to convert the mechanism into flybarless, I've done it, my question is a fs-t6 is capable of 120⁰ ccpm with just programing the radio or need more mixing electronics to attain collective cyclic mixing? Thanks ed frm. Ph.
I've never looked at the FS-T6 specs, but as long as it says it will support helicopters, that generally means it supports a few eCCPM mix programs, with 120 degree being one of them since next to 90 degree, it's them most common. It will specify supported swash types the manual that came with your radio.
Thank U very much Sir John, I have already done, the 120⁰ swash programing but tha aeleron can't make it in right direction it always in reverse direction of flight whenever input collective soon the rpm increase and I have to correct heading the rights is left and left is right, I tried exchanging and reversing the servo but no success, and when the reverse is done the two aeleron servo is nit responding to 3rd servo as I increase the revolution it tend to over forward in respond
Would I need to tweak anything for a nitro helicopter?
Yes you would since this is a helicopter template only; regardless of power type it has to be tweaked for every individual heli you setup. If you are specifically asking about the throttle channel configuration so you can have idle control of the carb (without using miserable digital trims for idle control), I've covered that in another video. th-cam.com/video/-cK6DZfu86s/w-d-xo.html
It's on a gas powered RC plane, but the procedure is identical for nitro and it's exactly what I also use on my last remaining nitro heli.
What wood one of the helicopter be hind you on this video behind you cost
Specifics - which one? I see 5 behind me and they range in price from around $200 up to $2000.
Am I right to believe that a Thunder Tiger Raptor 30 v2 has a 90° swashplate and is also non ccpm?
To the best of my recollection, the TT Raptor 30 V2 uses mechanical swash mixing (ie. CCPM is done mechanically by the bell crank linkage system on the heli); so it would use the no internal mix OpenTX template.
@@Rchelicopterfun thanks, I will try that.
Hi. I've now done this over and over and over again each time starting from scratch. I've got a Brand new Radiomaster TX16s Max V2 currently on EDGE TX 2.7.1 which I got 4 days ago. I'm trying to setup a quite old Tarot 450 V2 flybar Heli that has a Spektrum AR6210 Rx which was working(and flying) on my DX8. As far as I can tell I have done everything step by step the way you have. But for some reason it's all backwards and wrong on my Heli.. In the outputs screen I have the identical behaviours you have but on the heli, collective pitch is reversed with some odd behaviour in the Ch2 Aileron servo towards max extension. Pitch and roll is only moving the elevator and "aux" channel Aileron servo.
I'm at a complete loss do you, or anyone from the community have any useful suggestions?
Edit:
I've swapped to a Flysky FS-IA6 Rx and getting the same results after doing a complete new setup.
As you already figured, it has nothing to do with the RX. It's due to swash mix direction (+ vs -) in combination with channel direction setting for your 3 swash servos. I cover swash mix reversals and how they relate to channel reversal in depth and how to get them all interacting correctly & in the right direction in my swash setup ebook if you happen to have it: www.rchelicopterfun.com/swashplate-setup.html
Otherwise, you'll just have to play with your swash mix weight +/- values in combination with channel reversal for the 3 cyclic channels until you find the right combination of both to get all 3 servos interacting in the correct directions.
@@Rchelicopterfun I've updated the 4 in 1 module firmware and selected TAER setup.. Maybe this will make a difference seeing as it was behaving as if my servo's were connected to the wrong outputs. will update.
still no luck.. messed around a bit, seems it's outputting EATR instead of TAER ... set it up as a plane, when I swap input's around in the radio the throttle channel outputs on the elevator. something very odd going on with my radio.
Well I almost got there. When I push up on the throttle the swash goes down and the motor runs. If I reverse the throttle in model setup the swash is correct but the motor is full speed with stick down. Also gyro is only showing 2 percent on all switch positions. Any ideas please. Aha I reversed the outputs on channel 1 2 and 6 which corrected the swash.
I cover this at 4:30 and in my swash ebook if you have it. It's not channel reversing issue; it's mix weight reversing issue (using negative or positive value in your heli swash mix menu for collective).
No idea on gyro output at there are many reasons this could happen in Open/EdgeTX. Common ones to check are to make sure your weight for whatever input you have your toggle assigned to is 100%. Same in the mix menu. And to make sure you have -100 to+100 in your travel screen. Of course modifying the travel output afterward to get the exact gain output (travel output) you want. Or you setup a special gain curve for a stepped travel output for gain adjustment. Other ways as well - many options with Open/edge TX.
Strange if I reverse the settings left and right etc is good but up and down are wrong. Can't get both right. I will keep playing lol. 6 hrs later I've had enough. I will check out your info.
I changed the weight to minus 60 which corrected the up and down but it has reversed the left and right f b . Going in circles lol
"Going in circles" is the term I also use in the swashplate ebook. You have to approach 120 degree eCCPM interaction & mixing systematically.
1st you get all 3 servos moving in the same direction with collective stick movement by altering channel direction for whichever of the 3 servos is not moving in the same direction of the other two; unless of course they are all moving in the same direction in which case you can skip to step 2.
2nd. you get the mix directions set correctly (in terms of stick movement) with the positive or negative value of the mix % (weight).
@@Rchelicopterfun erm I almost understood that. I will probably order your pdf . I can only get get up n down correct or left right forward backward. Never both.
Thanks John that has been very helpful. However I have followed your instructions but I seem to have an issue with the collective pitch on my Align Trex 450XL; when I increase the throttle the swashplate starts tilting back and eventually all the way back. However the swashplate seems to work/move fine when I use the elevator and the ailerons. What could be wrong?
To fix the above issue I reversed the elevator servo and that has made the swashplate work fine with the collective pitch. However now the swashplate tilts backwards when I give it forward elevator and vice versa which is not correct, right?
Are you following the process I show in my Swashplate eBook for setting your channel directions and weighted mix output directions (pgs 27 to 31)? If so, I show how to first set your channel directions so all 3 servos are interacting and moving in the same direction with each other with collective. Next step is setting your 3 weighted mix % polarity values (positive or negative) so the swash is moving in the correct direction corresponding to your stick movements (ie. up collective, down collective, left cyclic, right cyclic). Going by your description, this could be either your elevator channel direction needs to be reversed ( or the other two), or your elevator weight mix is set to the wrong polarity - maybe a combination. As I show in that ebook, there are two ways to achieve the same output results for each of the 3 servos dependent on channel travel direction and mix polarity.
@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks for responding. I managed to fix the issue by changing the weight to minus 60 for the elevator in the heli page. However when I reverersrd the servo for the elevator in the output page it did not help. It seems that it has to be changed in the heli page.
Explication en français s.v.p