That reaction to Spike showing up was awesome. I can't believe the intro actually contains Spike though. I don't remember if I knew he was in it before he was tbh. Just very glad you didn't notice him when you glanced too early on the opening credits. "I mourned him" brilliant 😆
@@Nexusofgeek Stateside I guess there would be loads of advertisements but here in the UK I think we'd only know if we went on forums etc. No TH-cam? I doubt I'd have heard about it. But as I said, I can't be 100% as it's too far back to remember exactly. If I did then it's only because a friend told me.
Angel was going to be cancelled after season 4 but Joss Whedon told the network he could get Spike in and that convinced the Network to keep Angel for another season. Unfortunately with Marsters coming in the network would not pay to have Him and Charisma Carpenter on the show so sadly Charisma was let go. Marsters spoke of feeling bad about it but thankfully he met Carpenter and she was cool with him about it which he was relieved about as he genuinely wasn’t sure how she would react to him. However she wasn’t happy with Whedon.
Alexis Denisof came down with bell's palsy while filming this episode and the side of his face was paralyzed. So they filmed almost entirely on one side.
Also He was supposed to be clean shaven as he was before Connor, since now he has forgotten Connor, But they kept the rugged look to help hide the paralysis
They probably couldn't do that for action scenes, and I'm pretty sure the original plan involved putting her in more of those, considering the training scenes she had in season 3. I don't think one has to disregard the need to rework the story in order to acknowledge how immaturely Whedon handled the situation. I don't even think one has to disregard how much stress he was under with that and what happened to Firefly and the end of Buffy and everything else going on around that time. He had plenty of reasons to feel stressed out and frustrated, and everyone has bad days. The problem was taking that stress and frustration out on her and making his bad days her bad days as well. Regardless of whether or not the unexpected creative challenge was as big as he may have perceived it to be, his alleged response to said challenge presented by her pregnancy was disproportionate, needlessly rude, and clearly exacerbated by things that had nothing to do with her. And more than that, his unwillingness to acknowledge and apologize for it after all this time makes him look particularly immature.
Top 5 things in this episode: 1. Fred's Chicks poster 2. Sassy Angel (always a plus) 3. New Gunn who dis 4. Harmony, assistant TO the CEO 5. the ending
Actually I have a 6th: the set. This is my favorite Buffyverse set by far, with Buffy's magic shop at a close second. I love the sliding doors and how open it feels.
The spell probably works like Doctor Strange's spell that made everyone forget Spider-Man's secret identity. Any time someone thinks about things connected to Conner, they forget the details and are compelled to not think about it.
Yeah same thing. I'm glad Angel made whole world didn't remember his biological son Connor so Connor have new healthy wonderful normal life. Sadly only Angel and Cordelia secertly still remember Connor. Oh boy I wish I see Angel and Cordelia reunited with Connor as family. Cordelia will made up things with her surrogate son Connor after Jasmine / The Beastmaster wronged, corrupted and possessed her. I mean I'm wondering everybody create Cangel season 5 episode 18 Origin fanfiction. Cordelia wants her surrogate son Connor reunited with real family (his biological father Angel, his surrogate mom Cordelia, his surrogate uncle Charles, his surrogate uncle Wesley, surrogate uncle Spike, surrogate aunt Fred, and surrogate aunt Faith.)
Cordi deserved better, however there is kind of a happy ending. A new audiobook called Slayers was just released and, no spoilers on how she comes back, but Charisma returns as part of the main voice cast
The happy ending is the return of Cordy for a proper goodbye later on, which was indeed beautifully done. Pretty sure 90% of the people who watched Buffy and Angel don't really know or care about the comics, regardless of someone calling them canon or not.
Your enjoyment of season 4 really did give me a whole new outlook on the season, and I find it so much more enjoyable now. I'm thirty years old and I watched seasons four and five live and I watched the whole show through probably hundreds of times because it aired two episodes on syndication every weekday morning on the American TV Channel TNT for like a decade so I've seen season four A LOT lol and yet your introspection and appreciation for it has really made me look at it in a new light! As for season 5 it's absolutely my favorite season of Angel and tied with season 5 of Buffy for favorite season of the entire Buffyverse. (Something about season fives with this franchise lol). YOU'RE IN FOR A WILD AND CRAZY RIDE.
Explanation for random small joke: Our Gang was also known as The Little Rascals, a series of American comedy shorts from the early 20th century, about a group of poor children. One of the characters was called Spanky. Another was called Alfalfa, and he had a bit of hair that stood straight up. A movie called The Little Rascals was also made in 1994. And I absolutely loved your reaction to seeing Spike!
@@Nexusofgeek oh, so sad! Someone who is maybe in her 20s hasn't watched everything from 100 years of film and television. What is the world coming to?
@@shaynaformity1384 I know right? But seriously no one knows anything about anything anymore, film, art, literature. Google has made everyone into ignorant zombies. Sad.
yes, the network knew how popular Spike was with the fandom so getting JM to come over to Angel with no Buffy still airing was a huge boost for the final season. As things worked out, it wasn't enough to stave out cancellation due to other factors, but I am glad how things ended. Some shows go on too long so it's good this one went out not "jumping the shark" imo
Not everyone knew. I watched during the first airing and I had the same shocked PIkachu face at his return. I was surprised at him being in the credits then the final scene got me because he hadn't been in the entire episode.
I was minimizing the Connor-related stuff in my mind but couldn't. The Beast, Angelus, Faith coming to the rescue, the destruction of Wolfram & Hart etc. that's a lot to erase.
To be fair, A5 is probably the hardest I've ever seen a show try to repair and makeup for and apologize for a shitty season. The Connor/cordy stuff is abysmal, but damn this season really really really makes an effort to repair it
I will also say that this season is my favorite because of just how creepy it is. You juat know behind all that flashy office decor and shiny coating, fancy lawyer implanted knowledge, that there is some truly horrific shit. They're in the belly of the beast, and that saying about "dancing with the Devil, the Devil doesn't change, it changes you", will be a constant theme throughout this entire last season.
Charisma Carpenter’s fate in the show is a sad one, but like Valerie Harper’s, and Suzanne Somer’s before her, it’s a cautionary tale. No matter how big a star you think you are, that your agent tells you that you are, you are still a commodity in Hollywood. And you occasionally need to tread carefully. But fans will never forget her performances on both shows.
Well known Beef with Joss and Carpenter. Won’t say how it ends but Carpenter goes on to describe a closed-door meeting with Whedon in which he allegedly asked her if she was going to “keep” her baby. “He proceeded to attack my character, mock my religious beliefs, accuse me of sabotaging the show, and then unceremoniously fired me the following season once I gave birth,”
i honestly was both happy and mad. mostly mad and frustrated. Spike died an amazing death, it had meaning, it was tragic...and he is just bac 2 weeks after as if nothing happened...i dont know ALSO I CANT BELIEVE NO ONE TOLD YOU TO SKIP OR CLOSE YOUR EYES DURING THE CREDITS. the freaking spoiler
Surprised season 4 is one of your favourites. Its suuuuch a weird season. Starts making us want to commit crimes aginst the writers but it gets soooo good. I also love that ending. I just cant really rate that season cause every good moment has a cordy-connor after taste
@@DJZ64X For me its 2nd only to S3 and Darlas arc. I hate S5 apart from the last few eps since it all becomes a bit sanitised generic monster of the week. The only people who say its their favourite is Spike obsessives who dont give a shit he brutally assaulted buffy while trying to rape her on her bathroom floor.
It's always great to see people discovering this episode without having been spoiled of Spike's return. Even in France, Spike was shown beforehand in commercials... But to be honest, as I had stopped watching Angel around S3, if it wouldn't have been for seeing him in the said commercial that aired I believe right after Buffy's finale (not on the same channel, but I believe the very same day, or the day after), I may not have give its chance to this final season, which retro-actively made me give a second chance to the whole show, so... Can't really blame them for doing that.
So glad no one ruined this surprise. I remember being so happy to see him again when this premiered became I didn't see it coming. Buckle up Lex, it's gonna be Angel and Blondie Bear hanging out for the rest of this season, best buds, maybe
It was probably Wolfram & Hart that forced everybody else to forget about Connor except Angel so he'd have to suffer alone in his pain or maybe they just wanted things that way for some other evil purpose. The situation was different in I Will Remember You as it seemed like The Powers That Be were testing to see if Angel was committed to being their champion and once he passed the test there was no more reason to tempt him with Buffy by having her remember it too. I used to think that the rest of the team just got false memories like what happened with Dawn but maybe they simply had only vague memories of things involving Connor. That reaction to the twist at the end was priceless.
Funny how little things escape notice but things change and then they’re glaring. Dude called Fred “el jefe” but that should be “LA JEFA!”. I’ve been maintaining my streak on Duolingo since quarantine so I know at least that much Spanish!
Thank you for realising the injustice Cordelia and Charisma faced, just because Charisma was pregnant. Every other show works around pregnancies but Joss decided to destroy 6 seasons of character development and then abandon her in a coma.
@@Matthew-ij3zm Normally you’re correct but Joss did treat Charisma horribly. Not the character but the actress because of her pregnancy and in fact even yelled at her!
whedon wasn't outraged that carpenter was pregnant; he was outraged that she knew she was pregnant and kept it a secret, thus endangering the jobs of everyone on the show team. i think we can all agree that whedon's last-minute rewrite of the season four plot was not his best work, but maybe he would have done better with more time.
I'm glad you were surprised by Spike, most of us weren't. Not only from the opening credits, but because they started advertising his move to Angel BEFORE BUFFY EVEN FINISHED. It completely gutted his sacrifice in the Buffy finale, we all knew he was coming back. Your experience was the one we should have had.
wow, i didn’t know they did that 😲 what a bummer way to end buffy then. i understand they wanted more viewers for angel but i would’ve been so mad if i experienced that in real time
Congratulations on realizing the extent of the absolute bullshit that Joss Whedon dished out to Cordelia, all because Charisma Carpenter got pregnant a year before. Remember, at the time, nobody knew the truth about why Cordelia was left in a coma at the end of season 4. It took years for the truth to come out. Also, yay for Blondie Bear.
It was known shortly after, when Charisma told the story at every comic con. Everybody knew, they just accepted it as a shitty thing that happened, that everybody got over it.
It’s funny that I’ve not picked up all the Matrix references in the Buffy verse yet. But during the scene when they zoomed in on Gunn during his operation, I suddenly expected him to say “I know Kung Fu!” Or perhaps “Habeas Corpus” would be more likely. But they hadn’t reached that reveal yet.
Speaking of The Matrix… Conviction guy was doing a pretty decent Agent Smith interpretation. I don’t think that was necessarily a Matrix reference but It’s in my head now.
At the time, most of the audience didn't even mourn Spike because it was well publicized that James Marsters was joining the cast of Angel well before the series finale of Buffy. If you didn't know, you didn't have an internet connection. In an April 2003 Scifiwire article, Whedon said, "We're still finding out who's where and what's what and making sure the show comes back. But as far as I'm concerned, everyone should stop by." It wasn't a definite thing for Charisma Carpenter to not come back, or else they wouldn't have left the coma window in the first place, she would have just died in season 4. It's just how it worked out with James Marsters joining the show, they didn't have room, and she was still caring for a newborn at the time anyway.
No no no your last sentence sanitizes things. From all we have learned since the show ended nearly 20 years ago, Cordelia never wanted to leave and has since talked about how scary it was to be a single mom without a steady income after she was let go. They screwed her over big time.
@@Nexusofgeek It's the truth, deal with it. However she _feels,_ it will only ever be a feeling and not a fact. She came back to the show and brought her kid to the set for the 100th episode, and then she said she'd work with him again after several years of having a chip on her shoulder, and then she changed her mind again with the Ray Fisher news. Feeling anxiety about finding work is something normal people have to go through, not a cross to bear. And she wasn't exactly out of work. In 2003 to 2004, she has 7 credits to her name, two of which were multi-episode TV roles. I have zero doubt that moving into smaller roles was ideal for her life as a new parent compared to the typical 16-20 hour shooting day regular cast members have to commit to.
While the Senior Partners were mention as early as the season 1 pilot, it wasn't until season 2 that it was confirmed they could really travel on earth under most circumstances. The creators seemed to really want by the Powers That Be and there opposition to remain unseen for the most part. It's why they got rid of the oracles to the PTB after the first season. So the most you can hope for is meeting certain powerful demons that have the tightest connections to the SP on earth.
Angel made decision of saving his biological son Connor and his future love of his life Cordelia's live while taking over Wolfram&Hart by give Connor have good normal life and recover for Cordelia's coma. And protect Los Angeles County California too. Like Luke Cage made decision of taking over HP nightclub by becoming new King of Harlem to protect New York. Even Daredevil made deal take over The Hand's organization to protect New York. Only two members of Team Angel Investigations who secertly still remember Connor is Angel and Cordelia.
While there is plenty to complain about the way Cordelia's character was dealt with, the simple reason Cordelia is not a main cast member in Season Five is because Charisma Carpenter was on maternity leave. She had a baby, and took time off.
0:42 Season 4 is my favourite season of Angel, Mostly for Angelus and Faith how can you not love that rematch? Going from Good Angel vs Evil Faith to Evil Angel vs Good Faith.
Well you made it Lexi to Angel S5 the best Season in the Buffyverse IMHO. From the very start of this episode we can see the improvement in production values and much better fight choreography etc. They really threw the kitchen sink in budget for this final Season. As you can see the one take scene in the Wolfram & Hart HQ involving all the main characters is amazing in itself. This one was written and directed by Whedon himself. It is really very much a two-parter along with E2 Just Rewards. The transition to the new base at Wolfram & Hart offices in L.A. is somewhat overwhelming for the gang, but they soon meld into corporate life. The first surprise of Harmony being reintroduced as Angel's assistant gives us BTVS continuation, as we know she is comedy gold throughout, and is one of the most underrated characters in The Buffyverse. Gunn gets the total makeover having been used to download the complete Law into his brain, giving us absolute foreshadowing here by Joss Whedon for the premise of Dollhouse, and of course we have Amy Acker in Lab coat, more foreshadowing for Dollhouse for her part as Dr Claire Saunders. Great scene when Gunn enters the courtroom in a suit so sharp it cuts, and precedes to act as if he just came out of L.A. Law and Boston Legal, and a little bit of Ally McBeal thrown in as well. Great scene also with Angel in the school taking out the complete Black Ops Covert Swat Team. The 'mercy' scene is superb. The final twist of course is back at H.Q. when Angel opens the package and the amulet drops to the floor, Spike is re-born again, giving us the brilliance of his character to cement S5 a great Season.
Again why do people romanticise this shit and just make stuff up. Joss clearly confirmed at the time Angel S5 was given a shoe string budget compared to previous seasons hence why main and recurring cast members were cut. They also had no longer had budget to shoot externally so majority of sets were cardboard and filmed in the same studio. Fair enough if its your fave season just don't make up shit about the production.
Harmony right jere is why Angel vs Angelus argument doesnt have a leg to stand on. Combined with Spike its clear that they dont just become soulless killing machines without a soul. Angel is just particularly evil.
No. You can't trust a soulless vampire. They can decide to do good, but they have no feelings of guilt or remorse if they should do evil. Harmony wants the job, so that forces her to behave. And Spike had the chip. But you are right about Angelus having his own special brand of evil.
Angel: Explain why I shouldn't kill you. Lexi: Because she's fucking awesome! Kinda missing the point here...Angel wouldn't be killing her because she isn't awesome.
Something nobody talks about. Joss Whedon repeatedly said that Amy Acker was the best actress he ever worked with. So now she is basically leading lady on Angel. Joss had Amy over to his house reading Shakespeare and stuff. Amy (unlike all the other actresses) has never had a bad word for Joss. And shortly after this time Joss got a divorce from his wife. I don’t know anything for sure, but the mathematician in me has trouble not adding up two and two.
I don’t think that’s fair to Amy. I’ve never heard Anya or Harmony or Darla or Drusila say a bad word about him either. And can anyone watch this season and say Amy isn’t an amazing actress?!
I never watched Angel, for some reason. I don't know, I never really cared for him and don't ship him and Buffy, but saw the thumbnail and have to see the reaction. 😮
Not spoiling anything but when your done with the show google how Charisma Carpenter was screwed over by Joss Whedon. He did her very wrong. Sad to think how a guy who made 3 of my top 10 TV shows of all time was such a bad person.
The fifth season is great. As great as the fourth season or even better, probably because of Amy Acker' acting and Spike and Harmony. Totally agree that the first episode is the weakest in general, even having some brilliant episodes. However, i don't like Palea arc, even though it is really unique. For me, second and third seasons are Darla seasons, because I really like Darla. I have even watched Dexter because of her(great show by the way, better than expected).
I'm happy they brought him back. His character arc wasn't satisfying by the end of the series. They needed to get him away from Buffy so they can finish his arc off.
Charisma Capenter backed the writers into a corner and they pretty much lost patience with her and put her into a coma so they could bring her back if real life issues were resolved. No spoilers here but you can research pretty easy what was going on at the time. Did Spike survive? When you assume...
@@kerrigoff347 it was a little more involved than just her pregnancy. As I said, she can read up for herself and choose a side, but she should be informed before saying what was done to the character is unjust.
Losing Charisma was really hard. Honestly, I would have rather lost both Gun and Wesley before losing Cordelia and the love interest for Angel. She could have got the lawyer brain. I was really looking forward to your reaction to Spike appearing. Harmony will be around pretty consistently, since she is Angel's assistant.
I was fine with losing Cordy, I never really came back around to liking her again after all the stuff she did in season 4, and I don't care if she technically was controlled by Jasmine, and yeah between Spike and Cordy I'll always choose Spike, easy choice
That ending was too funny. Also did you watch Cruel Intentions yet? Speaking of Willow and Fred relationship Sarah Michelle Gellar has one of the most iconic/famous lesbian kisses in that movie, didn't wanna spoil that for you but you're done reacting to Buffy & it's the last season of Angel so I'm running out of times to ask 😅
Didn't think anything could annoy me more than people posting spoilers in the comments but here we are with reactors themselves posting videos with thumbnails that spoil storylines.
And thus, the perfect Buffyverse couple was born........Spike & Angel.
Yay for Spangel! 😂👌
Yes! Seriously, the dynamic between those two is my favorite in the entire buffyverse.
Hands down the best married couple on TV.
I ship the (bleep) out of them! Angel is just so clueless, it’s adorable.
I’m glad you were upset about Cordy. She deserved so much better. 😭
I know the hype is all for Spike, but ngl seeing Harmony joining the team made me so happy.
Agreed.
That reaction to Spike showing up was awesome. I can't believe the intro actually contains Spike though. I don't remember if I knew he was in it before he was tbh. Just very glad you didn't notice him when you glanced too early on the opening credits. "I mourned him" brilliant 😆
yes we knew he would be joining the cast of Angel. It is not like the WB at the time kept it a secret, which is why he was in the intro
@@Nexusofgeek Stateside I guess there would be loads of advertisements but here in the UK I think we'd only know if we went on forums etc. No TH-cam? I doubt I'd have heard about it. But as I said, I can't be 100% as it's too far back to remember exactly. If I did then it's only because a friend told me.
@@Marwolaeth01 that is correct no TH-cam. TH-cam would start two years after this episode aired.
Angel was going to be cancelled after season 4 but Joss Whedon told the network he could get Spike in and that convinced the Network to keep Angel for another season. Unfortunately with Marsters coming in the network would not pay to have Him and Charisma Carpenter on the show so sadly Charisma was let go. Marsters spoke of feeling bad about it but thankfully he met Carpenter and she was cool with him about it which he was relieved about as he genuinely wasn’t sure how she would react to him. However she wasn’t happy with Whedon.
In fact, James replaced Charisma twice-he became main cast in _BtVS_ season 4 largely because Charisma left to do _Angel._
James and Charisma actually guest starred in an episode of Supernatural together as a married witch couple.
I mean she wasn't going to be on a show anyway, it's either the show is canceled or you know, she is replaced 😬
In the comic con she was given compliments to joss
@@jamalbryant8099 Which one?
I love watching the confusion turn to shock to whatever they feel for Spike as a character on reaction viewers faces as Spike magically appears.
It always impresses me how well you remember the details of earlier episodes, it's as if you've been a fan for years 😂
Season five is a real treat, one of the best seasons of television ever
Apparently Angel's final form isn't Batman, it's Bruce Wayne.
I still feel like saying "Harmony has MINIONS??" every time I see her in Angel or Buffy again.
Let's face it, it's adorable
All that blood and she didn't get any?? LOL
Alexis Denisof came down with bell's palsy while filming this episode and the side of his face was paralyzed. So they filmed almost entirely on one side.
Also He was supposed to be clean shaven as he was before Connor, since now he has forgotten Connor,
But they kept the rugged look to help hide the paralysis
It’s crazy they could do that but not shoot Charisma from the chest up.
They probably couldn't do that for action scenes, and I'm pretty sure the original plan involved putting her in more of those, considering the training scenes she had in season 3. I don't think one has to disregard the need to rework the story in order to acknowledge how immaturely Whedon handled the situation. I don't even think one has to disregard how much stress he was under with that and what happened to Firefly and the end of Buffy and everything else going on around that time. He had plenty of reasons to feel stressed out and frustrated, and everyone has bad days. The problem was taking that stress and frustration out on her and making his bad days her bad days as well. Regardless of whether or not the unexpected creative challenge was as big as he may have perceived it to be, his alleged response to said challenge presented by her pregnancy was disproportionate, needlessly rude, and clearly exacerbated by things that had nothing to do with her. And more than that, his unwillingness to acknowledge and apologize for it after all this time makes him look particularly immature.
Yes, girl BLONDIE BEAR is here😄
Top 5 things in this episode:
1. Fred's Chicks poster
2. Sassy Angel (always a plus)
3. New Gunn who dis
4. Harmony, assistant TO the CEO
5. the ending
Actually I have a 6th: the set. This is my favorite Buffyverse set by far, with Buffy's magic shop at a close second. I love the sliding doors and how open it feels.
Spike was in and Connor out - both promised a really good season.
Creatures of the night, unite! 😂 I love Harmony.
Came here to hear that end rant about Cordy. They build here up so well.
I hope you are prepared for a HELL of a season!
The spell probably works like Doctor Strange's spell that made everyone forget Spider-Man's secret identity. Any time someone thinks about things connected to Conner, they forget the details and are compelled to not think about it.
Yeah same thing. I'm glad Angel made whole world didn't remember his biological son Connor so Connor have new healthy wonderful normal life. Sadly only Angel and Cordelia secertly still remember Connor.
Oh boy I wish I see Angel and Cordelia reunited with Connor as family. Cordelia will made up things with her surrogate son Connor after Jasmine / The Beastmaster wronged, corrupted and possessed her.
I mean I'm wondering everybody create Cangel season 5 episode 18 Origin fanfiction. Cordelia wants her surrogate son Connor reunited with real family (his biological father Angel, his surrogate mom Cordelia, his surrogate uncle Charles, his surrogate uncle Wesley, surrogate uncle Spike, surrogate aunt Fred, and surrogate aunt Faith.)
Cordi deserved better, however there is kind of a happy ending. A new audiobook called Slayers was just released and, no spoilers on how she comes back, but Charisma returns as part of the main voice cast
The happy ending is the return of Cordy for a proper goodbye later on, which was indeed beautifully done. Pretty sure 90% of the people who watched Buffy and Angel don't really know or care about the comics, regardless of someone calling them canon or not.
@@Matthew-ij3zm yeah but I'd still rather people stay away from the spoiler-y stuff re the tv show
@@Matthew-ij3zm that’s a major spoiler, I hope she doesn’t read it
omg i was so worried u'd see spike in the intro
Let's go! The main reason this season is the best is the chemistry between Spike and Angel.
Your enjoyment of season 4 really did give me a whole new outlook on the season, and I find it so much more enjoyable now. I'm thirty years old and I watched seasons four and five live and I watched the whole show through probably hundreds of times because it aired two episodes on syndication every weekday morning on the American TV Channel TNT for like a decade so I've seen season four A LOT lol and yet your introspection and appreciation for it has really made me look at it in a new light!
As for season 5 it's absolutely my favorite season of Angel and tied with season 5 of Buffy for favorite season of the entire Buffyverse. (Something about season fives with this franchise lol). YOU'RE IN FOR A WILD AND CRAZY RIDE.
Explanation for random small joke: Our Gang was also known as The Little Rascals, a series of American comedy shorts from the early 20th century, about a group of poor children. One of the characters was called Spanky. Another was called Alfalfa, and he had a bit of hair that stood straight up. A movie called The Little Rascals was also made in 1994. And I absolutely loved your reaction to seeing Spike!
the fact this has to even be explained is sad because people today don't know the classics
@@Nexusofgeek oh, so sad! Someone who is maybe in her 20s hasn't watched everything from 100 years of film and television. What is the world coming to?
@@shaynaformity1384 I know right? But seriously no one knows anything about anything anymore, film, art, literature. Google has made everyone into ignorant zombies. Sad.
@@Nexusofgeek back in the day, people could even recognize satire!
Back in the day it was known that Spike was joining Angel way before the final episode of Buffy even aired.
yes, the network knew how popular Spike was with the fandom so getting JM to come over to Angel with no Buffy still airing was a huge boost for the final season. As things worked out, it wasn't enough to stave out cancellation due to other factors, but I am glad how things ended. Some shows go on too long so it's good this one went out not "jumping the shark" imo
Not everyone knew. I watched during the first airing and I had the same shocked PIkachu face at his return. I was surprised at him being in the credits then the final scene got me because he hadn't been in the entire episode.
you'r right to be man about Cordi.. people have been mad about it for 20 years. both Cordi and Charisma deserved more respect
I was minimizing the Connor-related stuff in my mind but couldn't. The Beast, Angelus, Faith coming to the rescue, the destruction of Wolfram & Hart etc. that's a lot to erase.
Answer to all that: MAGIC. Lazy but in-universe fits.
To be fair, A5 is probably the hardest I've ever seen a show try to repair and makeup for and apologize for a shitty season. The Connor/cordy stuff is abysmal, but damn this season really really really makes an effort to repair it
I will also say that this season is my favorite because of just how creepy it is. You juat know behind all that flashy office decor and shiny coating, fancy lawyer implanted knowledge, that there is some truly horrific shit. They're in the belly of the beast, and that saying about "dancing with the Devil, the Devil doesn't change, it changes you", will be a constant theme throughout this entire last season.
Yep, was waiting for your reaction to this episode! Lol
33:44 “I saw the man in the white room. He does a lot of scary things but lion isn’t one of them.”
Nope. It’s a panther.
😆😆🤣🤣
Charisma Carpenter’s fate in the show is a sad one, but like Valerie Harper’s, and Suzanne Somer’s before her, it’s a cautionary tale. No matter how big a star you think you are, that your agent tells you that you are, you are still a commodity in Hollywood. And you occasionally need to tread carefully. But fans will never forget her performances on both shows.
omg the bad guy is also in charmed as a bad guy
Well known Beef with Joss and Carpenter. Won’t say how it ends but Carpenter goes on to describe a closed-door meeting with Whedon in which he allegedly asked her if she was going to “keep” her baby. “He proceeded to attack my character, mock my religious beliefs, accuse me of sabotaging the show, and then unceremoniously fired me the following season once I gave birth,”
i honestly was both happy and mad. mostly mad and frustrated. Spike died an amazing death, it had meaning, it was tragic...and he is just bac 2 weeks after as if nothing happened...i dont know
ALSO I CANT BELIEVE NO ONE TOLD YOU TO SKIP OR CLOSE YOUR EYES DURING THE CREDITS. the freaking spoiler
@34:43-34:48 I didn't hear anything, but for some reason the dogs around the neighborhood started barking. They must hear something.
Cordi basically got the gs ball treatment in pokemon
We’re all pretty upset about Cordy and Charisma.
Surprised season 4 is one of your favourites. Its suuuuch a weird season. Starts making us want to commit crimes aginst the writers but it gets soooo good. I also love that ending. I just cant really rate that season cause every good moment has a cordy-connor after taste
Season 4 is also one of my favourites, and for a lot of People to.
@@DJZ64X For me its 2nd only to S3 and Darlas arc. I hate S5 apart from the last few eps since it all becomes a bit sanitised generic monster of the week. The only people who say its their favourite is Spike obsessives who dont give a shit he brutally assaulted buffy while trying to rape her on her bathroom floor.
@@ItsMeBarnaby i totally agree with you. I really enjoy Jasmine arc. But it has so much wasted potential
It's always great to see people discovering this episode without having been spoiled of Spike's return.
Even in France, Spike was shown beforehand in commercials... But to be honest, as I had stopped watching Angel around S3, if it wouldn't have been for seeing him in the said commercial that aired I believe right after Buffy's finale (not on the same channel, but I believe the very same day, or the day after), I may not have give its chance to this final season, which retro-actively made me give a second chance to the whole show, so... Can't really blame them for doing that.
So glad no one ruined this surprise. I remember being so happy to see him again when this premiered became I didn't see it coming. Buckle up Lex, it's gonna be Angel and Blondie Bear hanging out for the rest of this season, best buds, maybe
How did I miss Hodgins in Angel?
Bug Boy!
It was probably Wolfram & Hart that forced everybody else to forget about Connor except Angel so he'd have to suffer alone in his pain or maybe they just wanted things that way for some other evil purpose. The situation was different in I Will Remember You as it seemed like The Powers That Be were testing to see if Angel was committed to being their champion and once he passed the test there was no more reason to tempt him with Buffy by having her remember it too.
I used to think that the rest of the team just got false memories like what happened with Dawn but maybe they simply had only vague memories of things involving Connor.
That reaction to the twist at the end was priceless.
Hello 👋🏻. Just remember back then the fans had to wait about 5 months to see Spike come back.
Seen this episode countless times and just noticed the Dixie Chicks poster behind Fred in the lab office
She mentioned 'Bones' and I immediately went to check is she's reaction to it!!!
Funny how little things escape notice but things change and then they’re glaring.
Dude called Fred “el jefe” but that should be “LA JEFA!”. I’ve been maintaining my streak on Duolingo since quarantine so I know at least that much Spanish!
I absolutely loved this season! Was so pissed and confused it was the last season.
Came here specifically to find out your Spike realiveness reaction. Hahah
Sad for Cordelia BUT Harmony is AMAZING
19:08 "El Jefe". Well, "La Jefa" in this case... wait, 'heffa' means something else in English, doesn't it.
You are thinking of Heffer.
@@NoThankUBeQuiet I've heard a few people use 'heffa' as in, "this heffa wants to fight!" by context I'm guessing it's an insult.
Omg ur intro was legit everyone's reaction
Did Lexi really say in her intro "it will be cool to see a bit of a RE-VAMP for the show?" 😂😂
17:37 a familiar face David will go on to work with for his equally as successful show
Thank you for realising the injustice Cordelia and Charisma faced, just because Charisma was pregnant. Every other show works around pregnancies but Joss decided to destroy 6 seasons of character development and then abandon her in a coma.
Oh my gosh. Surely you realize things aren't THAT simple?
@@Matthew-ij3zm
Normally you’re correct but Joss did treat Charisma horribly. Not the character but the actress because of her pregnancy and in fact even yelled at her!
@Matthew-ij3zm Pregnancies aren't simple. Not always a fan of Cordelia, but they should've accommodated her better.
@@Matthew-ij3zmWhen your boss asks you if you are going to terminate your pregnancy- that’s toxic
whedon wasn't outraged that carpenter was pregnant; he was outraged that she knew she was pregnant and kept it a secret, thus endangering the jobs of everyone on the show team. i think we can all agree that whedon's last-minute rewrite of the season four plot was not his best work, but maybe he would have done better with more time.
I'm glad to hear season 4 is your favorite, it's far from perfect but it really doesn't deserve all the hate.
I'm glad you were surprised by Spike, most of us weren't. Not only from the opening credits, but because they started advertising his move to Angel BEFORE BUFFY EVEN FINISHED. It completely gutted his sacrifice in the Buffy finale, we all knew he was coming back. Your experience was the one we should have had.
wow, i didn’t know they did that 😲 what a bummer way to end buffy then. i understand they wanted more viewers for angel but i would’ve been so mad if i experienced that in real time
BLONDIEBEAR!?!
lol
0:01 when I saw this. 0:03 yh that was my reaction also lol
Congratulations on realizing the extent of the absolute bullshit that Joss Whedon dished out to Cordelia, all because Charisma Carpenter got pregnant a year before. Remember, at the time, nobody knew the truth about why Cordelia was left in a coma at the end of season 4. It took years for the truth to come out. Also, yay for Blondie Bear.
It was known shortly after, when Charisma told the story at every comic con. Everybody knew, they just accepted it as a shitty thing that happened, that everybody got over it.
@@alicequinn505You knew that Joss asked her if she was going to have an abortion?
It’s funny that I’ve not picked up all the Matrix references in the Buffy verse yet. But during the scene when they zoomed in on Gunn during his operation, I suddenly expected him to say “I know Kung Fu!” Or perhaps “Habeas Corpus” would be more likely. But they hadn’t reached that reveal yet.
Speaking of The Matrix… Conviction guy was doing a pretty decent Agent Smith interpretation. I don’t think that was necessarily a Matrix reference but It’s in my head now.
At the time, most of the audience didn't even mourn Spike because it was well publicized that James Marsters was joining the cast of Angel well before the series finale of Buffy. If you didn't know, you didn't have an internet connection.
In an April 2003 Scifiwire article, Whedon said, "We're still finding out who's where and what's what and making sure the show comes back. But as far as I'm concerned, everyone should stop by." It wasn't a definite thing for Charisma Carpenter to not come back, or else they wouldn't have left the coma window in the first place, she would have just died in season 4. It's just how it worked out with James Marsters joining the show, they didn't have room, and she was still caring for a newborn at the time anyway.
No no no your last sentence sanitizes things. From all we have learned since the show ended nearly 20 years ago, Cordelia never wanted to leave and has since talked about how scary it was to be a single mom without a steady income after she was let go. They screwed her over big time.
@@Nexusofgeek It's the truth, deal with it. However she _feels,_ it will only ever be a feeling and not a fact. She came back to the show and brought her kid to the set for the 100th episode, and then she said she'd work with him again after several years of having a chip on her shoulder, and then she changed her mind again with the Ray Fisher news.
Feeling anxiety about finding work is something normal people have to go through, not a cross to bear. And she wasn't exactly out of work. In 2003 to 2004, she has 7 credits to her name, two of which were multi-episode TV roles. I have zero doubt that moving into smaller roles was ideal for her life as a new parent compared to the typical 16-20 hour shooting day regular cast members have to commit to.
I watched during the initial run of both series but I did not have the interwebs. I was super shocked.
While the Senior Partners were mention as early as the season 1 pilot, it wasn't until season 2 that it was confirmed they could really travel on earth under most circumstances. The creators seemed to really want by the Powers That Be and there opposition to remain unseen for the most part. It's why they got rid of the oracles to the PTB after the first season. So the most you can hope for is meeting certain powerful demons that have the tightest connections to the SP on earth.
Angel made decision of saving his biological son Connor and his future love of his life Cordelia's live while taking over Wolfram&Hart by give Connor have good normal life and recover for Cordelia's coma. And protect Los Angeles County California too.
Like Luke Cage made decision of taking over HP nightclub by becoming new King of Harlem to protect New York.
Even Daredevil made deal take over The Hand's organization to protect New York.
Only two members of Team Angel Investigations who secertly still remember Connor is Angel and Cordelia.
While there is plenty to complain about the way Cordelia's character was dealt with, the simple reason Cordelia is not a main cast member in Season Five is because Charisma Carpenter was on maternity leave. She had a baby, and took time off.
0:42 Season 4 is my favourite season of Angel, Mostly for Angelus and Faith how can you not love that rematch? Going from Good Angel vs Evil Faith to Evil Angel vs Good Faith.
31:40 I concur. Indeed, what a horrible, supernatural transformation.
They couldn’t afford spike and Cordelia so we got the blonde one instead
Well you made it Lexi to Angel S5 the best Season in the Buffyverse IMHO. From the very start of this episode we can see the improvement in production values and much better fight choreography etc. They really threw the kitchen sink in budget for this final Season. As you can see the one take scene in the Wolfram & Hart HQ involving all the main characters is amazing in itself. This one was written and directed by Whedon himself. It is really very much a two-parter along with E2 Just Rewards. The transition to the new base at Wolfram & Hart offices in L.A. is somewhat overwhelming for the gang, but they soon meld into corporate life. The first surprise of Harmony being reintroduced as Angel's assistant gives us BTVS continuation, as we know she is comedy gold throughout, and is one of the most underrated characters in The Buffyverse. Gunn gets the total makeover having been used to download the complete Law into his brain, giving us absolute foreshadowing here by Joss Whedon for the premise of Dollhouse, and of course we have Amy Acker in Lab coat, more foreshadowing for Dollhouse for her part as Dr Claire Saunders. Great scene when Gunn enters the courtroom in a suit so sharp it cuts, and precedes to act as if he just came out of L.A. Law and Boston Legal, and a little bit of Ally McBeal thrown in as well. Great scene also with Angel in the school taking out the complete Black Ops Covert Swat Team. The 'mercy' scene is superb. The final twist of course is back at H.Q. when Angel opens the package and the amulet drops to the floor, Spike is re-born again, giving us the brilliance of his character to cement S5 a great Season.
Again why do people romanticise this shit and just make stuff up. Joss clearly confirmed at the time Angel S5 was given a shoe string budget compared to previous seasons hence why main and recurring cast members were cut. They also had no longer had budget to shoot externally so majority of sets were cardboard and filmed in the same studio. Fair enough if its your fave season just don't make up shit about the production.
Truly the greatest season of the entire buffyverse. Bones is so awesome ❤
Magic fills in the gaps
Yeah, they did Cordy/Charisma dirty. But hey, Spike and Harmony.
You do realise this is the last fresh opener to a Buffyverse series you will ever watch?
Harmony right jere is why Angel vs Angelus argument doesnt have a leg to stand on. Combined with Spike its clear that they dont just become soulless killing machines without a soul. Angel is just particularly evil.
No. You can't trust a soulless vampire. They can decide to do good, but they have no feelings of guilt or remorse if they should do evil. Harmony wants the job, so that forces her to behave. And Spike had the chip. But you are right about Angelus having his own special brand of evil.
So we're just going to ignore all of the things that Harmony has done and will in this season that shows she lacks any sense of morality.
I personally feel like Spike and Harmony are a fair trade for Cordelia.
No.
Angel: Explain why I shouldn't kill you.
Lexi: Because she's fucking awesome!
Kinda missing the point here...Angel wouldn't be killing her because she isn't awesome.
Something nobody talks about. Joss Whedon repeatedly said that Amy Acker was the best actress he ever worked with. So now she is basically leading lady on Angel. Joss had Amy over to his house reading Shakespeare and stuff. Amy (unlike all the other actresses) has never had a bad word for Joss. And shortly after this time Joss got a divorce from his wife. I don’t know anything for sure, but the mathematician in me has trouble not adding up two and two.
I don’t think that’s fair to Amy. I’ve never heard Anya or Harmony or Darla or Drusila say a bad word about him either. And can anyone watch this season and say Amy isn’t an amazing actress?!
Charisma Carpenter finally got sick of Joss Whedon's bullshit. She'd have to wait decades before she could actually speak up about it.
I never watched Angel, for some reason. I don't know, I never really cared for him and don't ship him and Buffy, but saw the thumbnail and have to see the reaction. 😮
Angel is way better than Angel in Buffy
@@deathalizer82this one made me think maybe I should watch it after all.
*perhaps I'll just do the abridged version via Lexi reactions. Lol
Blondie Bear?😃
james or "spike" got Cordelia fired. They wanted him on the show, he wanted a lot of money. So they fired her to pay him.
Told you.😁
Did you really think Spike would die?
End of the buffyverse but still not the end of the Whedonverse. There is still Firefly and Dollhouse. Both worth a watch.
Firefly is amazing. One of my favorite shows ever.
I haven’t watched Dollhouse yet, but I know lots of folks dig it.
I *think* she’s watched Dollhouse already. I remember her mentioning it in one reaction or another. (Great show, writers’ strikes did it dirty).
I’ll wait to talk about Cordelia’s character, and how Joss Wheadon impacted how she was used.
Was Spike really not in Season 3 of Buffy at all?
One episode. Lovers Walk
Not spoiling anything but when your done with the show google how Charisma Carpenter was screwed over by Joss Whedon. He did her very wrong. Sad to think how a guy who made 3 of my top 10 TV shows of all time was such a bad person.
That's one of the few situations where I have to separate the artist from the art.
You have reached ritual sacrifice. For goats press 1 or say goats.
The fifth season is great. As great as the fourth season or even better, probably because of Amy Acker' acting and Spike and Harmony.
Totally agree that the first episode is the weakest in general, even having some brilliant episodes. However, i don't like Palea arc, even though it is really unique. For me, second and third seasons are Darla seasons, because I really like Darla. I have even watched Dexter because of her(great show by the way, better than expected).
I love spike but I hate they brought him back. His death and sacrifice meant nothing!
I'm happy they brought him back. His character arc wasn't satisfying by the end of the series. They needed to get him away from Buffy so they can finish his arc off.
They will never be forgiven for what they did to Cordy's character. Season 4 bottom forever.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Charisma Capenter backed the writers into a corner and they pretty much lost patience with her and put her into a coma so they could bring her back if real life issues were resolved. No spoilers here but you can research pretty easy what was going on at the time. Did Spike survive? When you assume...
She was having premature labor! She did not back them into a corner. She was taking care of herself and her baby.
@@kerrigoff347 it was a little more involved than just her pregnancy. As I said, she can read up for herself and choose a side, but she should be informed before saying what was done to the character is unjust.
Losing Charisma was really hard. Honestly, I would have rather lost both Gun and Wesley before losing Cordelia and the love interest for Angel. She could have got the lawyer brain. I was really looking forward to your reaction to Spike appearing. Harmony will be around pretty consistently, since she is Angel's assistant.
I was fine with losing Cordy, I never really came back around to liking her again after all the stuff she did in season 4, and I don't care if she technically was controlled by Jasmine, and yeah between Spike and Cordy I'll always choose Spike, easy choice
HE IS BAAAACK!!!! :D :D
That ending was too funny. Also did you watch Cruel Intentions yet? Speaking of Willow and Fred relationship Sarah Michelle Gellar has one of the most iconic/famous lesbian kisses in that movie, didn't wanna spoil that for you but you're done reacting to Buffy & it's the last season of Angel so I'm running out of times to ask 😅
Don’t trust that guy
cant wait till 5X16
Is that the funny one or the depressing one?
Oh wait no it's the half sad one right? Like not the devastating one but like the bummer
Was that Smile Time, or the C***i one?
@@nedzed3663 not gonna say what emotions
The episode is titled Shells. Dunno why people bother asking when Google is instant.
Didn't think anything could annoy me more than people posting spoilers in the comments but here we are with reactors themselves posting videos with thumbnails that spoil storylines.
Unfortunately no. Cordelia never wakes up from her coma and we don’t see her in the show ever again.