Restore and review of Roland CM-300
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
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In this episode I do a retrobrite treatment to a Roland CM-300 sound module and also show a uniqe vinyl record.
wow, it actually looks older than the black one
uelssom a lot... it's racist to think that white things are older :)
primary868 its true, and yes, the screen is a big advantahe
the color resembles how old pcs used to look.
and useless.
It is a budget/cheap version of the full thing (the Roland SoundCanvas SC-55 analogrelics.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/sc-55-1.jpg)
"this power switch is so long, makes me wonder why they designed it that way"
Well, if you were genuinely curious: usually it's to do with ease of laying out the pcb, not having to run traces carrying the mains power all the way to the front of the enclosure (or having to run wires to do the same job) Usually you want to keep high voltage stuff isolated in it's own part of the pcb. Less noise coupled into sensitive stuff, less risk of electric shock or having something go wrong and shoving 230 volts up a midi cable.
Except this thing uses an external power supply. But yeah, the basic concept is the same, you don't want your unregulated power traces coupling into notoriously sensitive audio circuits. And that concept is the same with the digital PCB, it's separate so they can isolate the signals, ground and power planes from the audio section.
If you look at the pcb it has only connections on one side (or brake out boards connected via leads). There might be a 19 inch rack mount version, which has all inputs on the front, as well as the knob and power button - the power brick would the probably be integrated into the case and the power button just flipped.
Also, the output pcb is one layer, because it uses THT components, while the digital board uses some smd components. PCBs used to be very expensive for 2-layers.
If you look at the pcb it has only connections on one side (or brake out boards connected via leads). There might be a 19 inch rack mount version, which has all inputs on the front, as well as the knob and power button - the power brick would the probably be integrated into the case and the power button just flipped.
Also, the output pcb is one layer, because it uses THT components, while the digital board uses some smd components. PCBs used to be very expensive for 2-layers.
8-Bit Keys, LGR, and Techmoan all in one day, Yesssssssssssssss.
Score!!!
lol I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt that way :-D
and vwestlife
its amazing!
correction;
8-Bit Guy/Keys
Have you considered doing a video on MIDI? How it works, development, adaption, extensions. Could probably be multiple videos.
Yeah, like an "How graphics work on 8-bit computers" but for MIDI/GM/XG and friends.
Yes and also how to make a MIDI version of a song you like? Is it easy?
You have to do an arrangement of the song, which means you need to know how to play the song or how to copy the sheet music into a sequencer program.
Rosegarden! (MIDI)
Jack Frost It's just like writing music in any other format although you can use a "piano roll" editor if you don't want to deal with reading and writing sheet music, and it's faster imo. That being said, some programs and apps are easier to use than others, but I usually have fun doing it regardless of what I'm using, personally.
After almost 2 years, I'm curious to know if the yellowing returned...
0he doesnt smoke so doubt it
@@clivelambert-oe7kg Yellowing doesn't really just come from smoking. It can, but the most common yellowing comes from sitting in the sunlight.
@@BackPalSA oh yes im stupid mate :P thanks for telling me bud
I think he once told us that he has special filters on his lights in the room he keeps the devices in so that they don't yellow again.
+clive lambert it can also yellow from sunlight or heat
that record is a lathe cut record, the way they are made is similar to the acetate lacquer that vinyl records are derived from.
The way it works is that the a cutting head will have a super sharp needle that has essentially two speakers connected(physically) to it so that the needle vibrates and cuts the lacquer or lathe cut record. You can also lathe cut polycarbonate plastic, but that yields pretty low fifdelity compared to a normal LP or a lathe cut vinyl record.
I was going to say the same thing. The question I have is this. Was the record sent to you lacquer or vinyl? The lacquer record will be much harder and will actually shatter if you're not careful with it. These are made so copies can be made on vinyl. Here's a great weblink from the Oregonian: th-cam.com/video/Pl8bhzob0fQ/w-d-xo.html
Here's a tip! Your Miracle Piano can select 128 instruments! Just hook the CM-300's in port to the Miracle's out port, then press Volume UP while holding down Synthesizer then you can use the Piano button on the Miracle to go up 1 instrument and Vibraphone button to go down 1 instrument!
This is THE BEST intro sound of 8-bit keys EVER MADE! Wow! It sounds just amazing!
Been watching for years. You know everything plus one about old computers and hardware, but when it comes to turntables you're a fish out of water.
Strange how the MT-32 looks so much more modern than the CM-30.
The CM-300 looks like a cheap Chinese clone of the MT-32, especially with that cheap plastic case and the yellow resin-paper PCB that was and still is common in knockoff/very cheap products because it is so much cheaper (and worse) than proper FR4 fiberglass resin PCB.
I wonder if the CM-300 was marketed as a more "budget" device back in the day, considering it lacks a display...
The CM line was a cut down (crappy case, no display and almost no buttons) home computer line. All devices looked pretty much like the CM-300 (the MT-32 version was the CM32-L).
Here a picture of the full successor device.
analogrelics.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/sc-55-1.jpg
Thanks :-)
It was. It's basically a cut-down SC-55 intended only for playback.
Ah right, makes sense :)
7:24 "According to the SCF, up to 80 percent of the sun's UV rays can pass through clouds"
At higher elevations, that percentage can go as high as 105%.
That's one good reason NOT to go sunbathing at places like Hanging Lake (about 8,600 feet above sea level). Sunburn City, ouch. x.x
Fun Fact: At the summit of Mount Everest, the level of UV Exposure is over 220%. It wouldn't take long to take serious damage from that high level of exposure, though to be honest, sixteen inch thick snowdrifts blowing about at consistent gale force wind speeds do inhibit a LOT of the UV rays, thus making an exposure blanket of -150%.
@Lassi Kinnunen possibly due to the to having more UV at higher altitudes so 100% of UV at "normal" altitude (possibly sea level or something). + 5% extra from being at higher altitudes.
Every time your video is like new movie. I sit in front of display with cup of tea and watch the video without breathing!
As well as sending the program change message from a PC (either swap the cables or use a midi merge box) there are also little microcontroller boxes that let you do it in a standalone box, from a quick search a current one seems to be "MTG MIDI Patch Changer Keypad"
Why do I like watching someone clean old tech so much?
When doing your next retro-brite could you do a timelapse of it? Like, if you have a GoPro or so could you simply set it up next to it in timelapse mode? I'm curious how it'd look like, plus it'd make a nice visual representation as a video clip :D
EpicLPer yeah! that'd be cool
A very good idea.
I second that ( well third that) Very good idea:D
Nice idea. it would be nice to have a time stamp on it as well so we can get a better feel for how long it takes.
Er, what? You want to watch minutes of video of how the color yellow is slowly replaced by the color gray (or beige)?? I'm sure David already has enough experience to just say how long it usually takes for the process to complete to an acceptable level.
U and LGR are the reason why I'm now in love with MIDI files and programs
I remember an episode of Mr. Rodgers where he had a record cutter in use. I've been enamored since. :)
Yep. I remember seeing a clip of it around.
Oh man..... my OCD wants that thing cleaned perfect!!!! I feel your pain!
1:43 I think cigarette smoke seriously contributes to the "yellowing" of that kind of material
It does, but this is not smoke, this is just bromine compounds decomposing and leaching out of ABS plastic, they are present as flame retardants. They yellow in presence of sunlight and oxygen, smoke or no smoke, indeed smoke stains are likely to even protect ABS from inherent yellowing. Smoke stains can be mostly just washed off with dish soap, but they can eat into plastics too, so it's not really a valid method of protection. :)
Basically this. Smoke stains wash off. This type of yellowing does not. It's caused by UV light. Noone has ever smoked where I live (and I've been here 10 years). I have a cat water fountain that is slowly turning yellow like this on one side (the side that faces the window of course). I might eventually retrobrite it.
It can. Absolutely. It definitely does to white paint over time.
uvulum n
seeing your restoration videos is always awesome, I love seeing old electronics looking new again.
5:08 Amadeus Amadeus, Amadeus. And now I can't get that song out of my head. lol!
Come on Rock me Amadeus!
MisterMsk Did Not know that tis Song is/was popular outside of Germany.
Florian Daßler used to play all the time on 98 rock in the US when it came out.
it was effectively a one hit wonder in America.
"Der Kommissar" and "Vienna Calling" got some radio play in the US as well, but that may just have been the influence of having music videos on MTV at a time when that was actually important.
I was born in the 90’s, so I have no idea what half these computers do, but I do love watching you restoring them. :)
First LGR's IBM PC AT, now this... Best day ever
I could watch restorations all day
Another amazing video. Thanks for that. Take care from Portugal
One thing about Roland gear, at least the vintage stuff, is they were superbly built, as you mentioned.
Soundtrack purchased, David I really enjoy your videos and the music selection from Anders a lot. I use an ad blocker in my browsers so I hope I can make a contribution to you and the artists in this way.
What I really like in good old stuff is that it can be easily unscrewed and then screwed again without any harm.
when u watched lgr's ibm at vid earlier and this comes on
The dismantling and restoration process is so relaxing to me.
I use one of my old REEF light's to do all my retro-bright. Tends to get the job done very fast as well. normally it only taks 2-4 hours and the item is good as new under the lights
I could watch you retrobrite stuff everyday!
9:52 So that is where Zap Branigan from Futurama came from.
TheMr77469 Roger Wilco, Space Janitor. Just google Space Quest. He came before Futurama to say the least. ;)
The guy's a genius. He records taking the kit apart so he knows how to put it back together again.
I'd really like to see a vinyl release of your soundtrack CD
Yes
how the fuck did you comment 14 hours ago
Daniel Bartholomew Patreons get to view before public release.
are you THE Anders Jensen?
I love the 8 Bit Keys Remix!!!
The super upbeat 80s music style suits the channel perfectly.
Falco! :D
I am constantly amazed how things from the 1980s 1990s still work like new... decades later !
if I were to guess based on the way they look alone, I'd guess that the MT-32 was the modern device. The CM-300 looks like those really old computers, while the MT-32 has a more sleek, modern design and look to it. Ironic then, that it's actually the other way around.
Alexander Krivács Schrøder CM-series (and other low end devices, such as SC-7) are deliberately made to look cheap.
Because they ARE cheap. They've cut every corner possible in order to make them more affordable for gamers. Google the SC-55, that's the top of the line prosumer version of the CM-300, with all the same sounds and abilities, and you'll see how nice it looks.
The 8 bit guy saves the day once again
You should look into reviewing synthesizers and workstations on this channel. Sound modules are a step in the right direction. :)
Super cool demo, didn't know the sound quality was that good.
2:06 read the text on the circuit board
Ass
I find these restoration videos helpful. The cleaning tips are very useful! keep up the good work David.
Couldn't you just use the computer to send the patches and use a USB keyboard as an input device?
Yes
Or with some modules, you don’t need a computer
The Roland 32 looks cooler, but then '80s tech nearly always did. :) I love watching you restore things. Never gets old.
I feel like if Anders Jensen ever did show up on a video he would just look like the guy from Wolfenstein 3D
rzeka I'll try my best. ;)
@@AndersEngerJensen woowww
The madlad actually replied
The reason for the long plastic shaft to allow the power switch to be located close to where it is required and away from the audio circuits. It keeps the noise down by not having to run the power all the way to a switch on the front of the unit. These units always went yellow with sun light both mine are completely yellow. Loved the clean up method.
"Why don't you use a UV light?" Because he lives in Texas, that's why.
Your voice is rather nice calm and soothing...its like walking into your Roland dealership store and having Ned Flanders from the Simpsons demo the gear lol.
Great Vid Hope Anders gets some LPs Printed
Wow, so many disks and deck on one contemporary shop!
Successor? Really? That thing looks way, way older than the black Roland.
agreed
it really do tho
I remember in the early 80's going through the "platinum" stage. It was refreshing and new compared to the piano black and chrome finishes of earlier stuff. Starting with the Apple II line, particularly the Apple IIc , IIe Platinum edition and IIgs as well as the Commodore C64c and C128, The TRS-80 Model 4 & Color Computer 4, TI-994a in a white scheme, as well as the Mac/PC/Amiga products of the time which made anything that wasn't light beige colored look like pure garbage . ie an earlier TI-994a, TRS-80s (Trash 80s), Breadbin 64s, VICs, Sinclairs (ZX), etc.
Roland has some of the best presets in the industry. My first workstation was an XP-60 Roland and the sound bank and the filters we're just great!
lmao supervalu baking soda, work for that company. funny seeing it in your video
You should hook him up as a brand rep with an endorsement.
*slams the like button as soon as SQ5 is mentioned*
Well, i was going to like it at the end anyway for the restoration, but unexpected Sierra moments are always great for me
Yesterday, I bought a keyboard that was made before the dissolution of the Soviet Union, for $2.25. It works just fine with my brand new gaming PC.
Has it really been that long?
That was in like 1992
Cutting a record is a slow process in which a vibrating cutting head actually puts the grooves in the record. When a record is pressed, one copy is cut and each side gets a mold made of hard, non-bending metal made from it. These molds are put into a hydraulic press and molten plastic is injected between the two. The press squeezes the soft plastic an when it hardens the press releases and you have an exact copy of the original cut. With pressing you can whip out multiple copies a minute where as cutting one can take hours to get right. Hope this helped :)
In the 1940s and before, this was done in real time, as tape recorders were not common. Almost every sound recording from ca. 1920 to WW2 was recorded and mixed directly to a turntable, then mechanically reproduced. Blank records sometimes had a steel backing with a soft recording surface on one side.
I heard noticeable slowdown in both games you showed, with the worst being Space Quest 5. I don't remember that being an issue with either when I played them on my old computers, so was that a Dosbox problem, a problem with the device, or the MIDI sound output requiring more system resources?
Dosbox definitely. Some games are totally unplayable, despite what people say ("meh, you don't need an old machine, just download dosbox and it will run perfectly" NOT TRUE). Dosbox is good for early 8088 games to 486 games, anything above that (Pentium, AMD K6 or 486DX2) will lag as hell on Dosbox.
That's why I still have a K6-2 machine running perfectly, to enjoy Pentium games like Tyrian, Space Quest IV or Screamer 2 :P
The only reason I use dosbox is for Tandy-only games, because I don't have any PC with the proprietary Tandy 3-voice sound chip and graphics card.
Peter Gill It's just settings in Dosbox that needs to be adjusted. :)
MrOpenGL: Yeah, I figured. I hated trying to play Doom in Dosbox, it just felt weird, though it was the steam release with the outdated Dosbox version. I didn't really know it had a problem with Pentium games in general, but then again I have a few old computers I prefer to play old games on whenever possible.
Other than that the only big problem I have with Dosbox is its terrible PC speaker emulation. Run any old Sierra game (like the first three King's Quest games) without PCjr/Tandy sound enabled, and any notes that are held warble like crazy. Still, though, I really like Dosbox despite its downfalls.
One tip don't use massively outdated DosBox versions.
That includes the (stable) version on DOSBox.com.
That version was last updated in the year 2010.
As much as I am a daily Linux user, I prefer using real machines rather than wasting time into fiddling settings, trying !UNSTABLE! SVN versions in Dosbox.
Retrobriting: What I have done if use cooktop polishing cream on that same material and within 2 minutes it is success. I have a Novus 850 from 1974, and it was in bad material condition so I used that crème and it worked good as new!
9:45 Star Trek anyone?
David: Addresses complaints of not using a UV light because the sun can do the job in a day.
Also David: runs out of sunlight and can't get the job finished.
After almost 2 years, 6 months, I'm curious to know if the yellowing returned...
Wow Doom sounded great on the CM-300. Love hearing games through different midi-modules. Keep the midi modules episoded coming!
the sound of this thing really make me think of the midi synth in windows……
I want to hear CANYON.MID played through this thing.
MUNT emulator can handle roland midi sounds in windows.
Humanised Sonic because the midi synth in windows is an emulation of this midi synth
Win95 ~ WinXP used a roland sound canvas back in the day , not sure what they use now if any support for the Roland
Roland sound on classic games... wow that is so awesome! And 8 bit in vinyl also great!!
That song on the Doom game at 8:51 sounds a lot like Metallica's Master Of Puppets
Not a coincidence.
That sierra intro takes me back. One of my favorites
Couldn't you just hook up the cm 300 to your mac via usb midi and use garageband or some daw to play it ?
great video as always! I love older technology and despite using newer stuff (skylake cpu and gs7 phone) i love old stuff, 90's kid in me i guess! :)
The long rod on the power switch is a common way of keeping all the mains circuitry confined to a little area of the board around the mains inlet whilst still having a proper mains on/off button on the front panel.
1. Click new 8-bit Keys video.
2. Click "Like"
3. Watch video.
watch him clean.
Exactly what I was going to say!
Same!
10 PRINT " 8 BIT KEYS"
20 GO TO 10
RUN
Love your videos! It's extra cool that you're also from Texas!
I work on appliances for a living and what we use to clean off stubborn marks is lacquer thinner we buy the "clean strip"lacquer thinner stuff it comes in the same can as your denatured alcohol from walmart or where ever. lacquer thinner is the most powerful cleaner that i've used it gets everything off of anything. I'm not sure about using it on plastics but you can try it, its powerful stuff.
that bathroom sink is 8bit
if you had the Roland SC 55, SC-50, or SC-55 MKII you would be able to select the sounds from the front panel, and the SC-55 with earlier ROM revisions has the General MIDI reset interpreted as a GS reset, and GM program change 122 is Flute Key Click (suppose to be on GS bank 1) instead of Breath Noise. and for bank changes, you use MIDI control change 0 which lets you select the available GS banks if you are using a MIDI controller from 1991 onwards.
Are you still doing a review on the Casio SK5 or are you still trying to mod it?
you put so much effort into your videos and you can tell its all because your love for these things. thank you for your great work, keep it up!
The older mt32 looks so much better; and to me actually more modern, though, ...
RenéRebe I know right! 8-Bitch Guy
The CM-300 is actually a slightly stripped down version of the Roland SC-55, it's basically an SC-55
with no membrane buttons or display. The MT-32 was also produced as a CM-32L in that same beige box
although the CM-32L does have extra sound effects in it's drum kit and was typically bought with a CM-32P
which is a very stripped down version of a Roland U-110 or U-220 that gave you 64 of those PCM sounds
so it was a way of having some of the same sounds as a Roland U-110, U-20/220, MV-30 or D-70 at just
a fraction of the cost. The CM-32P also has a slot for one PCM card.
NOICE. I've just started watching your channel (I'm restoring my old Roland A90ex, Casio AZ-1 key tar, and my stupid A-hole ex-roommate left a Yamaha DX-7 in near-mint condition when she moved out, and I didn't know what that was, and she DEFINITELY didn't, so...), and I'm about to crack open my MT-32 for a cleaning.
the build quality is amazing
I like these restoration videos. So satisfying to watch.
The irony of playing digital music from an analog phonograph.
yeah bit of a gimmick
many love the HF roloff and noises of vinyl. though I think it's more about the ritual
@@TH-camSupportTeams it is indeed, a gimmick.
However, its meant more of a collectible. Sort of the same way people collect posters and stuff.
Please keep up with these restoration videos :) I love seeing the effect a good clean and retrobright does, doesn't matter if it's keyboards, PCs or other electronics.
comments from 15 hours ago, video released about 7 minutes ago.
Cvaxx I think patreons were watching it before
TH-cam logic.
Patreons get early access
woah technology
Although your older keyboards do not have 128 patch selections, you could easily plug your MIDI keyboard into your computer and use the patch selection function of any DAW software set up for a General MIDI module to selection sounds. The CM-300 doesn't have a display or any patch selection functions because it was made to permanently connect to a computer. The Audio inputs were designed to mix the computers sound card (for the sound effects) with the CM-300's music.
So is Retro-bright just hydrogen peroxide cream?
Hydrogen peroxide plus ultraviolet light.
10 inch records are usually used for EPs, which are like shorter mini-albums, mostly smaller bands release stuff in that format but larger bands will use it from time to time for more experimental or fan oriented releases.
Warranty void if the case is opened.
Pretty sure the warranty expired approx. 24 years ago. ;)
it's obvious geeks have no sense of humour
@@AndersEngerJensen dude it's a joke ? jeez
People have already mentioned it. The CM-series are for Computer Music and lack the control panel that the SC sound canvases had. The Yamaha MU-500 was a similar item for their MU series of GM/XG units. It looks like one of the cheaper ways to get something keyboard controllable in the Sound Canvas line is to get an SK-500 keyboard with the unit built in, which unfortunately gets it's MIDI input over USB (output is still the 31.25kbps over DIN cable). I've been researching for a planned end-of semester project.
Generally when you find yellowing on the bottom it means that it both had feet, and sat on a reflective desk for a number of years. Either a desk with a glossy finish, or a desk with a glass top
the sound out of that thing was fantastic
The CM series like the CM-32L sounded slightly improved and included 33 extra sound effects, but I much preferred being able to crank up the reverb and change instruments on games with the MT-32.
I remember the sales setup for these at a distributor office. There was a series of matching boxes, such as drum machines, a soundless midi input keyboard, and an official DOS or Windows application that would link it all together, with instrument selection on the computer keyboard, but music playing on the MIDI keyboard. Basically like a later version of the Sequential keyboard for the C=64.
The actual Roland Keyboards were beast. I've used big Yamaha's and big Roland's in my time at school in music lessons. They were the big players until KORG joint them as well my schools were so lucky to have those keyboards in full size because those big sized ones were megabucks back when they were new don't know about now for the classic ones which they would be now of course as I'm in my 30s.
I'd imagine the new upgrades of those old full sized ones are megabucks though just like them back when they came out.
Roland Sound Canvas Midi interface for using with them just makes me speak about the classic full sized keys Roland keyboard.
they put those switch extensions on so the switch can be in front while leaving the actual electrical switch back by the power supply part of the board. it prevents the need for big traces or wires running back and forth.
I LOVE YOUR BACKGROUND MUSIC!
If it only was free to use...
WHY ARE THE UNDERRATED SONGS ALWAYS PAID???
Adam SK/EN It’s all free on SoundCloud and most streaming stores? Plus it’s just a dollar away on BandCamp... :)
Again, love the technique
Reason for powerswitch reaching all the way to backend of cabinet: Wiring socket voltage AC to the front is likely to introduce hum to the board. This solution is also seen in a lot of hifi divices
I have the same turntable, mine is in black. The white version looks quite nice. I like the ceramic look.