@@aldenpotamus a thing to note with this interaction is that Hex makes it easier to make happen as you have more durations to play with, and potent toxins makes it harder for the same reason
@abigailmcdowell4248 great point, more turns means more potential overlaps. I'm assuming that each poison duration beyond the first gets one chance at a stun... but I've never looked in the logs to confirm it works this way.
@@aldenpotamus hello!! I wanted to tell you I've been able to clear the second and third level by now thanks to your tips and videos! Thank you so much. I'm enjoying the game a lot more!
[01:17:52] Organic Armor - Is ok with Vampire as it does give a significant boost to healing and you can get tankiness from block and resistance instead. For it to be excellent you need a lot of perks to align. Now, if you have Sanguine Fuel and Bodybuilder then throwing Organic Armor into the mix can give you a significant damage buff. Items can give a lot of armor that is turned into even more health that is used to give extra damage. (Also has nice synergy with Thickness) Note that the armor skill that gives temporary armor now gives you a decent damage buff through temporary health. Does not provide healing - that would have been crazy. Still 125armor *150% = 187.5health which likely gives you +18%melee damage and +9%damage. Worse than a Great Axe buff but it frees up the weapon slot.
@pflernak good call out, the build you're referring to I generally call the "Health Mage" and when the stars align they can be quite strong... with health contributing to both damage and phys damage you can rack up some pretty heavy hitters that are near unkillable!
I personally still found Specialist to be worthwhile on a bloodmage with a spear. 2 strengthened triple swipes and 2 strengthened piercing thrusts are enough to wipe out most enemy groups and I usually don't have enough AP on my heroes to do much after spending those 8 already. One place where the Epidemic and the Poisonous perks have chemistry is on the toxic opportunity tank build, where you equip a warshield on a hero with Sadism, wade into a crowd and press End Turn to immediately have Poisonous proc up to 20 or so opportunism, which Epidemic boosts to up to 40 per turn, all without having to spend a single AP. In this case, spreading the poison is less significant than simply proccing free sadism off everything around you, potentially fuelling Bully for a +50% crit bonus to combine with your opportunism and Perfect Guard multiplier for very high numbers on the next round.
@ErpyAGDI I'm curious though, do you find that in that case Specialist is better than just having two spears? I find that you can get a lot of stats out of 2 spears and that generally is more flexible than the 50% damage that usually on a bloodmage I don't really need. Sadist Poisonous is an interesting one, I generally find that contagion + sadist is much better at farming sadist procs, but perhaps there's something to this. My biggest hesitation is just that everything you proc poison on either need to be in the base and dying or outside the base and not dying... which is kind of a delicate balance.
@@aldenpotamus In all honesty, the one time I played a spear-wielding blood mage, the RNG didn't give me a lot of spears and the difference between my best spear and my second best spear was significant enought that just my best spear and specialist seemed a better choice. The last time I tried a sadistic poisonous tank, I placed him just outside the base, with minimal investment into the poison stat and fairly solid investment in opportunism and I'd use my one-handed axe to clean up anything that walked past me. It is kinda tricky so part of me would have preferred the Poisonous perk to kick in at the end of the horde's turn as opposed to at the end of the heroes' turn.
@ErpyAGDI very reasonable... I think Specialist just really needs some love. It's such a cool concept but in it's current form 2 weapons is almost always better than one.
For Critical Runes, the way people I think use it is have Mana Collector and Critical Runes, so you are constantly topping up your mana and have high crit after spending your mana. the thing with Critical Runes is that it'd be best with a very large mostly empty mana pool, so that the 10 mana you are gaining and losing with mana collector (or the 14 from mana crystal) don't substantially change your crit chance. I still think it's the worst of the 3 tier 2 crit perks
I can see it... but I think we're aligned that that's a lot of work when you can just pick up a few critical level-up and call it a day and use those precious T2 perks for other things.
I would never take those two together. Mana collector generates so much mana that you are pretty much always at 100% mana. You want the other one, the one that adds damage when your mana is topped up to pair with mana collector. Crit runes was kinda terrible prior to the DLC. With the DLC you have stout beer. Previously, all serious mana regen was done *before* the night starts, leaving your hero with not much utility from crit runes. Now, with stout, you leave the hero drained and drink a beer whenever you need to cast and it's just monster for hand-crossbow builds that don't need to use mana every turn. You don't even need mana collector anymore, since you plan to charge your mana with the beer on an as-needed basis.
@TysonJensen interesting, mana collector is a max of 10 mana and I think you can pretty safely spent 10 mana per turn to keep yourself low on mana while also having a lot of mana to spend. Might be a more viable synergy that it looks like on first blush.
Initiator is actually pretty good in Gildenburg as you are unlikely to have the opportunity to reach the multi-hit cap. It's also much more useful before you have unlocked weapon variants and items that have a base multi hit stat. Because they make reaching the cap a lot more reliable. Basically it's a mid-experience player trap. Because it's good early on, but falls off dramatically once you have things unlocked and are playing longer or more difficult maps.
We're having exactly this discussion right now in the discord. I think the thing I wasn't think about before is that most of the builds where I think it has some limited value (bloodmage) are so over subscribed on T3 perks that I still won't ever take it.
I mentioned the meta pregression stuff in one of my comments, the gildenberg map length thing is also a good point. But I think those things are so hard to evaluate, and even with all those things it's still not a good perk
@@abigailmcdowell4248 It's not a very good perk, yes. But there are cases where I would pick it up and what I really wanted to point out is that when you're just starting and discover how overpowered multi-hit is, +2 multi-hit looks amazing. And I've noticed quite a few people who are not quite new to the game, but also not very experienced value it quite highly without realizing how badly it falls off once you get to a certain point in player skill and meta-progression. Past that point, it's really only good on Gildenberg. Arguably on it's okay on Glenwald if you are building 3 or more multi-hit heroes as you are unlikely to find enough items to reliably get to 5 on all of them.
There are situations, that's why I put it in C tier rather than banishing it all the way down to F tier like I have previously... but I don't want people to get the wrong idea and thing it's not bad, hehe!
Relentless can be a good Axe/Great Axe perk, when you kill so effecintely that you have to move 2 or 3 tiles to reach the next tile it can be useful to not get stranded
I do think that movement recovery is pretty awesome in most of it's forms. With the movement cap I think that you're always going to want more than you can have initially.
I couldn't agree more with the Harvester vs Mana Growth discussion! also worth mentioning that on a blood mage Mana Growth becomes resistance, which can often be more important than other tier 1 perks
Max mana definitely has more synergy potential.... but you're never gonna get resistance rich off mana growth and I think that T1 for Blood Mages has a lot of potential.
Resupply also gives an ability to resupply catapult shots. 3 per night, if I'm not mistaken. The only reason I know this is from my testing of the catapult berserk combo. Where you catapult your own hero to ramp up berserk really fast. I find this hilarious, but it only works in a few builds and requires quite a bit of preparation. Still, 80(or 96 at apoc 4+) materials for 8% damage is pretty good. It's even better if you can make it work with 2 heroes.
Yah know I've never given it a go against high block enemies with a hand crossbow... I could see the unblockable being pretty good against bulkies for instance @dssdfsdfds .
at the risk of seeming like a noob, isnt perseverance better on a cannon wielding hero, since only 1 targer of the aoe has to miss in order to trigger (half a point, so 2 misses across 2 diff aoes to get a point).?
@Locklen your logic is 100% correct that hitting more targets increases the chances of proc'ing perseverance. I think the issue with it generally is that it never goes AP positive and really will only ever help mitigate something that is more easily mitigated with accuracy. Missing is basically never the best outcome and the best fix is to not miss rather than recoup something on missing. Hope this helps!
The way i look at it, Spiky Counter is on the hero that I usually want to face tank, and such a hero are usually bad at clearing up archer/ hunter. SC are perfect perk to eliminate that weakness, so for me, it should be higher. It's kind of a build-defining perk for me: If this hero is a dwarf, and he have SC, then HH build become a consideration, otherwise it's not.
@sorrowseeker I generally agree, to clarify I love Spiky Counter but realized as I was thinking about it that the "face tank and get strong" style of build benefits a lot more from Berserk than it does from Spiky so I decided to reflect that a little... I think you can make a very effective tank in the game without this specific perk.
Critical runes is pretty good on a hand crossbow wielder (Sure, I take one of the best weapons in the game, but still). Allow you to reach 100%crit pretty easily, and 1H-crossbow doesn't need mana to be effective ! But I agree, this is only one specific build !
@strix4609 someone a bit earlier also highlighted having an empty mana pool and using mana collector to keep casting. Both are valid but agreed they're a little niche.
@@aldenpotamus I tried doing that. Mana collector is too good. you end up at 100% mana very quickly. The new build I do with crit runes is drain the hero down, then drink the mana beer whenever they need to cast. It makes crit runes a *lot* less quirky.
I know you're a crossbow hater, but proximity shot does have great synergy with crossbow, especially with boom. I do wish the crossbow aoe line skill had 1 less min range though, but it still generally gets great value. Hoping the new dlc has more close ranged builds 🤞
So the way Aggressiveness is reading to me is that u would need 300 armor then let that get taken down and at 0/300 armor u would then have the 60% dmg. I'm assuming it procs the following turn after the armor is depleted.
@jrdoolin5250 that's correct, but I'll say that you need a very reliable way to get rid of the armor without getting rid of say health. The challenge for me is that as you stack defensive stats like resistance and block you are making it harder to lose 300 armor. It's a very tricky needle to thread in my experience. That being said, the way you described it is indeed the way it works.
The opportunity cost of a couple level ups is not to be underestimated though, and this one showing up 1/2 the time is really easy to count on when the levels don't go you way!
@@aldenpotamus oh definitely! but for me that's what seperates S tier perks from A tier ones. S tier perks let you do things that no reasonable amount of stats and gear can do
So I think some discussion of against the wall vs lone wolf should have been had, I definitely think lone wolf is better, but you have against the wall higher within the same tier. Lone wolf is easier to proc imo, and less limited in what you can do while using it. it's also easier to find and gives you a bigger buff most of the time
I think on this one... and I should have called this out more specifically, Stone Medals kinda need to be considered a little differently than perks that cost a perk point. Lone Wolf in my eyes is a little lower because it's competing for a different resource. Rarely do I have a trinket that can give me as much damage as against the wall so I compared it to other trinkets and considered it's cost as a "trinket slot" rather than Lone Wolf which consumes a perk point. But I think it's valid to point out.
Here to learn different thought processes. Maybe share more weird combos 😅😋 If they ever add a race that builds temporary turrets maybe back protection will be better. Edit: I learned a lot and I understand better the feedback I received on my weird builds comment. Good vid.
Cheers @MeanKno ! Always a pleasure seeing you pop up in the comments! Temporary turrets actually sound like a really cool idea that might almost be doable in the current game code... hmmm
ya know, I'm a little surpirsed more people aren't debating the value of "Look at my Muscles", I agree with you, but in other places people always seem to want to defend it
I feel like early on I got a lot of people being like nudist + LamM chatter, but since then I haven't heard much. I think it's really easy to be seduced by the AP but getting a chest with 1AP is easy so I really only value it at like +1AP
@Desocupad0 I think I missed the thread on this one, I'm sure it's referring to something I said, I'm just not sure what. My best guess is that it has to do with how I compared poison being single stat driven to other damage which is multiple stat driven, but I'm not sure. Perhaps you're just highlighting that poison base damage scales with weapon level and maybe doubles from T0 -> T5? Very curious, cheers!
I disagree with your take on Perseverance. If you are running a multihit build hand crossbow, you can deliberately hit dodger once or twice every turn to proc it. This essentially double your AP to the point where you have to stack 2 crossbows and blow all your arsenal, then punch them some more to deplete your AP. Try it out!
Hi @minhielts2700 , so just to clarify, you're intentionally leaving your accuracy very low (to the point where you can miss a dodger reliably), and then targeting a bunch of enemies and using one of your multi-hits to recoup an AP from the action. Presumably then you're using a second hero to kill the enemies with dodge or just using that refunded AP to hopefully kill them with brute force? It's an interesting concept for an early game where you're using hand crosbows. I'm not sure that elevates it too far up the ranks given the niche situation... I'm not sure I'd keep a hero on low accuracy just to trigger perseverance, but it is interesting. Thanks for the comment!
So I think even a dodger at the furthest reaches of the hand crossbow range would still be a likely hit, unless you were using some other thing to actively reduce your accuracy (which can be quite inconsistent for other enemies that are important to hit), and then perserverance also gives you an accuracy buff, making it even harder to get multiple misses in the same turn unless you're really really low on accuracy/have used some other hero to debuff your accuracy. Also, Legendary assasin already gives you more AP than you can spend with a hand crossbow, but it does it by killing things which is already what you want to do
I considered mentioning Legendary Assassin, but it comes so late in the game I felt like it wasn't really worth calling out. I was thinking of this more as an early game strategy.
@@aldenpotamus yeah, I think perserverence is best used as a way to make up for a low accuracy starting hero with it's late came potential being entirely dependent on Shower of Blows
my 2 cents on initiator: as a new player, i cant imagine getting to the cap of multi-hit. i just don't have gear with this stat nor weapons along side really low chances for rare stat grades on level ups. initiator provides me with such a rare stat that at this state of my game, its a straight up S tier. ok, that's quite an overestimation, but nonetheless, definitely not "F" (okay, a bit rushed, but nonetheless you are way to harsh with it while praising omen of second chance). also, i am pretty sure that even at max unlocks its pretty hard to get max multi-hit on first map duo to its short nature
@D-N-0 initiator is definitely one of those perks that's really hard to rate. I think that for me the issue is that the "hard to find stat" is only available until you get a kill, so functionally when under MH cap it's 2 extra hits likely once per turn. That's why I really like it on Blood Mages with spear as you only have the one multi-hit per turn. As for Gildenberg (the first map) agreed I think on that map taking it is OK, but T3 of perks is just so strong (tons of amazing perks) I still find it hard to take, but I completely understand where you're coming from!
@@aldenpotamus nop. I am rather new to the game (as i already stated) and you are the only one i watched, so i have no clue. But i dont think that it has to be a youtuber, maybe just a friend of yours to provide the second pov
So ignoring my dislike of Great Axe for a second, I know it's hard. Even there shortening the distance of leap and also your buffing range with the damage buff still feels kinda bad doesn't it?
Also glad to hear you mentioning the poison duration interaction, one of my favourite weird mechanics I've found
It seems like a big, but it's a REALLY nice bug :)
@@aldenpotamus a thing to note with this interaction is that Hex makes it easier to make happen as you have more durations to play with, and potent toxins makes it harder for the same reason
@abigailmcdowell4248 great point, more turns means more potential overlaps. I'm assuming that each poison duration beyond the first gets one chance at a stun... but I've never looked in the logs to confirm it works this way.
the only time you don't take runic gift is when you have the traits that give you an extra trinket slot anyway lol
1000x this
I cannot get past the second stage and your channel is teaching me a lot. Thank you!
Heck yeah @WastelandH ! Report back when you manage to make it through!!
@@aldenpotamus hello!! I wanted to tell you I've been able to clear the second and third level by now thanks to your tips and videos! Thank you so much. I'm enjoying the game a lot more!
Heck yeah! Well done @WastelandH
[01:17:52] Organic Armor - Is ok with Vampire as it does give a significant boost to healing and you can get tankiness from block and resistance instead.
For it to be excellent you need a lot of perks to align. Now, if you have Sanguine Fuel and Bodybuilder then throwing Organic Armor into the mix can give you a significant damage buff. Items can give a lot of armor that is turned into even more health that is used to give extra damage. (Also has nice synergy with Thickness)
Note that the armor skill that gives temporary armor now gives you a decent damage buff through temporary health. Does not provide healing - that would have been crazy.
Still 125armor *150% = 187.5health which likely gives you +18%melee damage and +9%damage. Worse than a Great Axe buff but it frees up the weapon slot.
@pflernak good call out, the build you're referring to I generally call the "Health Mage" and when the stars align they can be quite strong... with health contributing to both damage and phys damage you can rack up some pretty heavy hitters that are near unkillable!
I personally still found Specialist to be worthwhile on a bloodmage with a spear. 2 strengthened triple swipes and 2 strengthened piercing thrusts are enough to wipe out most enemy groups and I usually don't have enough AP on my heroes to do much after spending those 8 already.
One place where the Epidemic and the Poisonous perks have chemistry is on the toxic opportunity tank build, where you equip a warshield on a hero with Sadism, wade into a crowd and press End Turn to immediately have Poisonous proc up to 20 or so opportunism, which Epidemic boosts to up to 40 per turn, all without having to spend a single AP. In this case, spreading the poison is less significant than simply proccing free sadism off everything around you, potentially fuelling Bully for a +50% crit bonus to combine with your opportunism and Perfect Guard multiplier for very high numbers on the next round.
@ErpyAGDI I'm curious though, do you find that in that case Specialist is better than just having two spears? I find that you can get a lot of stats out of 2 spears and that generally is more flexible than the 50% damage that usually on a bloodmage I don't really need.
Sadist Poisonous is an interesting one, I generally find that contagion + sadist is much better at farming sadist procs, but perhaps there's something to this. My biggest hesitation is just that everything you proc poison on either need to be in the base and dying or outside the base and not dying... which is kind of a delicate balance.
@@aldenpotamus In all honesty, the one time I played a spear-wielding blood mage, the RNG didn't give me a lot of spears and the difference between my best spear and my second best spear was significant enought that just my best spear and specialist seemed a better choice.
The last time I tried a sadistic poisonous tank, I placed him just outside the base, with minimal investment into the poison stat and fairly solid investment in opportunism and I'd use my one-handed axe to clean up anything that walked past me. It is kinda tricky so part of me would have preferred the Poisonous perk to kick in at the end of the horde's turn as opposed to at the end of the heroes' turn.
@ErpyAGDI very reasonable... I think Specialist just really needs some love. It's such a cool concept but in it's current form 2 weapons is almost always better than one.
For Critical Runes, the way people I think use it is have Mana Collector and Critical Runes, so you are constantly topping up your mana and have high crit after spending your mana. the thing with Critical Runes is that it'd be best with a very large mostly empty mana pool, so that the 10 mana you are gaining and losing with mana collector (or the 14 from mana crystal) don't substantially change your crit chance. I still think it's the worst of the 3 tier 2 crit perks
I can see it... but I think we're aligned that that's a lot of work when you can just pick up a few critical level-up and call it a day and use those precious T2 perks for other things.
I would never take those two together. Mana collector generates so much mana that you are pretty much always at 100% mana. You want the other one, the one that adds damage when your mana is topped up to pair with mana collector.
Crit runes was kinda terrible prior to the DLC. With the DLC you have stout beer. Previously, all serious mana regen was done *before* the night starts, leaving your hero with not much utility from crit runes. Now, with stout, you leave the hero drained and drink a beer whenever you need to cast and it's just monster for hand-crossbow builds that don't need to use mana every turn. You don't even need mana collector anymore, since you plan to charge your mana with the beer on an as-needed basis.
@TysonJensen interesting, mana collector is a max of 10 mana and I think you can pretty safely spent 10 mana per turn to keep yourself low on mana while also having a lot of mana to spend. Might be a more viable synergy that it looks like on first blush.
Initiator is actually pretty good in Gildenburg as you are unlikely to have the opportunity to reach the multi-hit cap.
It's also much more useful before you have unlocked weapon variants and items that have a base multi hit stat.
Because they make reaching the cap a lot more reliable.
Basically it's a mid-experience player trap. Because it's good early on, but falls off dramatically once you have things unlocked and are playing longer or more difficult maps.
We're having exactly this discussion right now in the discord. I think the thing I wasn't think about before is that most of the builds where I think it has some limited value (bloodmage) are so over subscribed on T3 perks that I still won't ever take it.
I mentioned the meta pregression stuff in one of my comments, the gildenberg map length thing is also a good point. But I think those things are so hard to evaluate, and even with all those things it's still not a good perk
@@abigailmcdowell4248
It's not a very good perk, yes.
But there are cases where I would pick it up and what I really wanted to point out is that when you're just starting and discover how overpowered multi-hit is, +2 multi-hit looks amazing.
And I've noticed quite a few people who are not quite new to the game, but also not very experienced value it quite highly without realizing how badly it falls off once you get to a certain point in player skill and meta-progression.
Past that point, it's really only good on Gildenberg. Arguably on it's okay on Glenwald if you are building 3 or more multi-hit heroes as you are unlikely to find enough items to reliably get to 5 on all of them.
There are situations, that's why I put it in C tier rather than banishing it all the way down to F tier like I have previously... but I don't want people to get the wrong idea and thing it's not bad, hehe!
Well done, as always.
Yes. Love to watch these kind of videos over a week or so lol
Thank you @SirSwindler as always! Cheers
@cougarmama7589 that is completely understandable... this one was a marathon to record :)
Relentless can be a good Axe/Great Axe perk, when you kill so effecintely that you have to move 2 or 3 tiles to reach the next tile it can be useful to not get stranded
I do think that movement recovery is pretty awesome in most of it's forms. With the movement cap I think that you're always going to want more than you can have initially.
"the limited uses per turn are really... limiting" you have such a way with words haha
Modern day Shakespeare they call me ;)
Great update! Love it!
@origprankster cheers! It was long overdue but with the DLC now in full swing there was no better time to!
I couldn't agree more with the Harvester vs Mana Growth discussion! also worth mentioning that on a blood mage Mana Growth becomes resistance, which can often be more important than other tier 1 perks
Max mana definitely has more synergy potential.... but you're never gonna get resistance rich off mana growth and I think that T1 for Blood Mages has a lot of potential.
Resupply also gives an ability to resupply catapult shots. 3 per night, if I'm not mistaken.
The only reason I know this is from my testing of the catapult berserk combo. Where you catapult your own hero to ramp up berserk really fast.
I find this hilarious, but it only works in a few builds and requires quite a bit of preparation.
Still, 80(or 96 at apoc 4+) materials for 8% damage is pretty good. It's even better if you can make it work with 2 heroes.
The dream of a berserk hero powered by catapults :) Can't not love that!
respect the hard work
@rogueduelist3137 respect the view and comment, truly thank you! Cheers!
Initiator is better with very limited meta progression when reaching the multi hit cap is much harder
I feel like that's a situational dynamic that's very hard to figure into things... but also valid. Not sure how I would weigh something like that.
@@aldenpotamus Ask bad players like me. It's literally that easy.
Lol @SirSwindler I need more experts at all levels!
More tierlists, my beloved.
Hey @kindatim ! Who doesn't love a tierlist :)
Like a shark can be useful with e.g., a one handed crossbow
Yah know I've never given it a go against high block enemies with a hand crossbow... I could see the unblockable being pretty good against bulkies for instance @dssdfsdfds .
at the risk of seeming like a noob, isnt perseverance better on a cannon wielding hero, since only 1 targer of the aoe has to miss in order to trigger (half a point, so 2 misses across 2 diff aoes to get a point).?
@Locklen your logic is 100% correct that hitting more targets increases the chances of proc'ing perseverance. I think the issue with it generally is that it never goes AP positive and really will only ever help mitigate something that is more easily mitigated with accuracy. Missing is basically never the best outcome and the best fix is to not miss rather than recoup something on missing. Hope this helps!
@@aldenpotamus it's not about getting more ap than you spend anyway, why do you take that as the standard
The way i look at it, Spiky Counter is on the hero that I usually want to face tank, and such a hero are usually bad at clearing up archer/ hunter. SC are perfect perk to eliminate that weakness, so for me, it should be higher. It's kind of a build-defining perk for me: If this hero is a dwarf, and he have SC, then HH build become a consideration, otherwise it's not.
@sorrowseeker I generally agree, to clarify I love Spiky Counter but realized as I was thinking about it that the "face tank and get strong" style of build benefits a lot more from Berserk than it does from Spiky so I decided to reflect that a little... I think you can make a very effective tank in the game without this specific perk.
Critical runes is pretty good on a hand crossbow wielder (Sure, I take one of the best weapons in the game, but still). Allow you to reach 100%crit pretty easily, and 1H-crossbow doesn't need mana to be effective !
But I agree, this is only one specific build !
@strix4609 someone a bit earlier also highlighted having an empty mana pool and using mana collector to keep casting. Both are valid but agreed they're a little niche.
@@aldenpotamus I tried doing that. Mana collector is too good. you end up at 100% mana very quickly. The new build I do with crit runes is drain the hero down, then drink the mana beer whenever they need to cast. It makes crit runes a *lot* less quirky.
@TysonJensen you gotta spend 10 mana per turn... that's 2 magic missiles and 2 blazes, I know you can do it if you try ;)
@@aldenpotamus exactly. I'm forced to use *shudder* propagate abilities just to try to lose mana.
Blaze isn't that bad, is it? :) It's such a low prop number I feel like I can generally keep it in the base!
I know you're a crossbow hater, but proximity shot does have great synergy with crossbow, especially with boom. I do wish the crossbow aoe line skill had 1 less min range though, but it still generally gets great value. Hoping the new dlc has more close ranged builds 🤞
Crossbow Boom! is an interesting combo, I'll give you that @drchickensalad
So the way Aggressiveness is reading to me is that u would need 300 armor then let that get taken down and at 0/300 armor u would then have the 60% dmg. I'm assuming it procs the following turn after the armor is depleted.
@jrdoolin5250 that's correct, but I'll say that you need a very reliable way to get rid of the armor without getting rid of say health. The challenge for me is that as you stack defensive stats like resistance and block you are making it harder to lose 300 armor. It's a very tricky needle to thread in my experience.
That being said, the way you described it is indeed the way it works.
the biggest issue faced by longer weapons is that it doesn't do anything that a couple good level ups or nice gear stats can't do just as well.
The opportunity cost of a couple level ups is not to be underestimated though, and this one showing up 1/2 the time is really easy to count on when the levels don't go you way!
@@aldenpotamus oh definitely! but for me that's what seperates S tier perks from A tier ones. S tier perks let you do things that no reasonable amount of stats and gear can do
So I put Longer Weapons in A tier also... so perhaps we're just in violent agreement? >:)
@@aldenpotamus yeah, my original comment was trying to come up with why such a good perk still didn't feel S tier haha
Ahhh i gotcha
So I think some discussion of against the wall vs lone wolf should have been had, I definitely think lone wolf is better, but you have against the wall higher within the same tier. Lone wolf is easier to proc imo, and less limited in what you can do while using it. it's also easier to find and gives you a bigger buff most of the time
I think on this one... and I should have called this out more specifically, Stone Medals kinda need to be considered a little differently than perks that cost a perk point. Lone Wolf in my eyes is a little lower because it's competing for a different resource. Rarely do I have a trinket that can give me as much damage as against the wall so I compared it to other trinkets and considered it's cost as a "trinket slot" rather than Lone Wolf which consumes a perk point.
But I think it's valid to point out.
Here to learn different thought processes.
Maybe share more weird combos 😅😋
If they ever add a race that builds temporary turrets maybe back protection will be better.
Edit: I learned a lot and I understand better the feedback I received on my weird builds comment. Good vid.
Cheers @MeanKno ! Always a pleasure seeing you pop up in the comments! Temporary turrets actually sound like a really cool idea that might almost be doable in the current game code... hmmm
ya know, I'm a little surpirsed more people aren't debating the value of "Look at my Muscles", I agree with you, but in other places people always seem to want to defend it
I feel like early on I got a lot of people being like nudist + LamM chatter, but since then I haven't heard much. I think it's really easy to be seduced by the AP but getting a chest with 1AP is easy so I really only value it at like +1AP
Poison amount in skill increase the base value up to 100% for tier 5 weapons.
@Desocupad0 I think I missed the thread on this one, I'm sure it's referring to something I said, I'm just not sure what. My best guess is that it has to do with how I compared poison being single stat driven to other damage which is multiple stat driven, but I'm not sure. Perhaps you're just highlighting that poison base damage scales with weapon level and maybe doubles from T0 -> T5? Very curious, cheers!
I disagree with your take on Perseverance. If you are running a multihit build hand crossbow, you can deliberately hit dodger once or twice every turn to proc it. This essentially double your AP to the point where you have to stack 2 crossbows and blow all your arsenal, then punch them some more to deplete your AP. Try it out!
Hi @minhielts2700 , so just to clarify, you're intentionally leaving your accuracy very low (to the point where you can miss a dodger reliably), and then targeting a bunch of enemies and using one of your multi-hits to recoup an AP from the action. Presumably then you're using a second hero to kill the enemies with dodge or just using that refunded AP to hopefully kill them with brute force?
It's an interesting concept for an early game where you're using hand crosbows. I'm not sure that elevates it too far up the ranks given the niche situation... I'm not sure I'd keep a hero on low accuracy just to trigger perseverance, but it is interesting. Thanks for the comment!
So I think even a dodger at the furthest reaches of the hand crossbow range would still be a likely hit, unless you were using some other thing to actively reduce your accuracy (which can be quite inconsistent for other enemies that are important to hit), and then perserverance also gives you an accuracy buff, making it even harder to get multiple misses in the same turn unless you're really really low on accuracy/have used some other hero to debuff your accuracy. Also, Legendary assasin already gives you more AP than you can spend with a hand crossbow, but it does it by killing things which is already what you want to do
I considered mentioning Legendary Assassin, but it comes so late in the game I felt like it wasn't really worth calling out. I was thinking of this more as an early game strategy.
@@aldenpotamus yeah, I think perserverence is best used as a way to make up for a low accuracy starting hero with it's late came potential being entirely dependent on Shower of Blows
I think perseverance is primarily good for -100% accuracy runs... but who would do something like that? ;)
Alright now this is gold and silver. Thank you sir.
Cheers @Sesshyru !
my 2 cents on initiator:
as a new player, i cant imagine getting to the cap of multi-hit. i just don't have gear with this stat nor weapons along side really low chances for rare stat grades on level ups.
initiator provides me with such a rare stat that at this state of my game, its a straight up S tier. ok, that's quite an overestimation, but nonetheless, definitely not "F" (okay, a bit rushed, but nonetheless you are way to harsh with it while praising omen of second chance).
also, i am pretty sure that even at max unlocks its pretty hard to get max multi-hit on first map duo to its short nature
@D-N-0 initiator is definitely one of those perks that's really hard to rate. I think that for me the issue is that the "hard to find stat" is only available until you get a kill, so functionally when under MH cap it's 2 extra hits likely once per turn. That's why I really like it on Blood Mages with spear as you only have the one multi-hit per turn.
As for Gildenberg (the first map) agreed I think on that map taking it is OK, but T3 of perks is just so strong (tons of amazing perks) I still find it hard to take, but I completely understand where you're coming from!
@@aldenpotamus might consider doing future tier lists with someone? collaboration of sorts
@D-N-0 I haven't done a lot of collabs on the channel, but I'm super open to it... do you have a creator in mind? Let me know!
@@aldenpotamus nop. I am rather new to the game (as i already stated) and you are the only one i watched, so i have no clue. But i dont think that it has to be a youtuber, maybe just a friend of yours to provide the second pov
Interesting idea, I'll give it some thought! Cheers!
Steady aim is so bad that on the challenge where the heroes literally could not move Alden still didn't take it.
This is a good data point @TysonJensen ... lol
nice
No you.
thank you!
You're incredibly welcome @GiulianoSpahn ... cheers!
shorter weapons on greataxe but you don't like greataxe anyway so obviously you think it's bad
So ignoring my dislike of Great Axe for a second, I know it's hard. Even there shortening the distance of leap and also your buffing range with the damage buff still feels kinda bad doesn't it?
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