Nightwish The Poet and the Pendulum Live at Wembley 2015 Reaction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2022
- You've been asking for this video for a while and here it is! We hope you enjoy as much as we did. It sort of took us back to the days of Album rock stories, like floyd, Boston, Children of the Sun, etc. It has four distinct parts to it. At some point, we will probably do a break down of each part.
As always, Much Love
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Tuomas sought refuge in his parents house. The lyrics of the last part are actually the words from his parents, they nursed him back. The rest of the band couldn't help him, they were also "smashed" by all the hatred that came over them all (the shoulder cries more). But to write a song about his depression like this, boggles the mind! Tuomas asked the technicians to cut of the sound in his in-ears of Floo'r's singing otherwise he couldn't perform. And to see Emppu and Marko standing beside him at the end, to support him...chills everytime I see it.
I always thought that the lyric ”the shoulder cries more” is a reference to Tarja who literally cried in about all the interviews she gave after they dissmissed her. She really played the victim and even I, who wasn’t a Nightwish fan at the moment, saw that that was not the case.
Edit. I mean, the press really gave her all the chances for that. At least here in 🇫🇮
Yep it doesn’t any better than this - most of us Nightwish fans have watched this hundreds of times, it never gets old.
And yet it still gets in the feels.... every *** time.
I love Floor's soft " Thank You" at the end in this performance.
As I say to myself every time, and as many a reactor has said, "No...thank YOU!!!"
I too
I concur
I love Floor and Marko both together .. Nightwish is Marko and floor is the perfect combination .. But if he's not there ...Like in the USA ,then it's not really Nightwish .
Goddes floor
Oh Sue.... I think you felt every second of that song. Thank you for your heartfelt reaction.
You're right about that - its so touching!
Nightwish Army UK popping in for an emotional reaction.
Oh shoot, you cut it off a split second early LoL. love Floor's soft "Thank you"
Okay, you're sold. Nightwish (and especially Floor Jansen) fans forever :-)
Facts Bert - Facts!
Thanks for the good music "!The Poet and the Pendulum and Nightwish" from Germany all time!
The most epic, touching, emotional song I've ever heard.
"You have such oceans within. In the end, I will always love you".
NIghtwish genius, masterpiece, folklore. You name it you got it.
this performance is the highlight every day in my life - i watched it hundreds of times - awesome! - thanks for your reaction!
My joy in reaction videos (especially Nightwish) is watching your honest and from the heart reaction...WITHOUT WORDS. If all REACTORS waited till the end to speak...what a wonderful world it would be. Just LISTEN and experience.
Brilliant composition, starting with the end and ending with the beginning. I love it every time I see people sincerely react to it.
I'm 62 years old and have seen this many many times. And I end up a crying mess every time. Thank-you.
Breathtaking masterpiece 🔥❤️ The End. The Beginning 🙏🏻
Hello .
The song "The Poet and the Pendulum" is a 13 Minute journey through the mind and turmoil of Tuomas Holopainen after the year 2005. It was in that year the band parted with their long-time singer Tarja Turunen and had a personal falling out with her. The pain of the separation was big on both sides, and shown in this song. There is guilt for what happened, there is the responsibility that the band and Holopainen had to show towards the fans,. It was the End of an Era for them, and reason for Holopainen being lost as described in these lyrics. We can only of course to a certain degree suppose how much of these are truly Holopainen's feelings, wishes and pains - but we do know that the lyrics of Nightwish have been up to then very personal. Other songs on the album also digest this separation and falling out of the members with Turunen.
However personal and "real" these thoughts are, I feel like this song definitely takes us not only on a journey with Holopainen but also into ourselves. The music underlines the emotional gravity of the song extremely well. And I believe a lot of people can actually relate to a sense of guilt and being overwhelmed that all they desired for is the safety of home and innocence. While being personal, the song can still ring true to it's listener. That's a quality Nighwish possesses in many, many more songs. The emotional journey is one we can all share and very few bands know how to put that journey into song and especially into sound as well as Nightwish does.
The band remains through all it's shores and Oceans, one of my main favourites and I hold special place for the band in my musical heart. I hope you have enjoyed reading my analysis and share some of my thoughts. If you do have any comments, please feel free to let me know. And remember the beauty of interpretation is that it is subjective; we can see all and feel different things in the same song and continue to love it endlessly.
Lyric analysis by Annika Hausen
Greetings from the Netherlands
This was Tuomas' suicide by song because of all the hate he received when the band let go of Tarja, the bands first vocalist They were childhood friends and had formed the band wih Empuu. Tuomas was in a deep state of depression and this was his way of coping with all the hate mail, trolls, etc. Unfortunately many of these haters are still around today.
You missed Floors sweet Thank You at the End .
Great reaction guys , i felt the emotion thru my phone.
Thanks silver black! Sorry we missed the thank you though :(
@@susanhoffman4835 no , thank you , you guys are amazing ....Sue your one of those people , your emotions are contagious, you feel it , i feel it , i know you have a good heart .
We have many bands making music , Nightwish make art 🤘🤘
Well said, my friend!!
Absolutley true. Can i steel your comment arnaldo?😊🤔
@@ralfmeyer9086 yes, sure.
@@arnaldotanta3630 🤘🤗 greetings from nothern Germany
Time to give Tuomas some credits composing these songs. Don’t know what’s inside his head, but I would like to have even piece of that
A tear was shed, this side of the screen. Yet again!
I could tell you two also were shaken and disconcerted, and then comforted all the same...
This song is a masterpiece of spiritual death and resurrection. I will say no more.
I LOVE you guys! So few reactioners, reactors reactionaries...whatever take the time to just watch and experience without pausing to yap every 30 seconds. Keep it up, guys!
Thx man - blessings to you and yours !
One of the band's most emotion-provoking songs. Floor is able to bring such depth to Tuomas' near-brush with suicide. This song.has only been performed live a dozen.or so.times, and Tuomas has the vocal feed to his in-ear monitors turned off.
The soprano at the start, and spoken word parts by a young Guy Elliott.
I look fwd to hearing more from you both...this one hits you in the feels, for sure!
I love singing this one bc it's challenging...but if I slip and start thinking about the words...I lose it. Oddly.enough, this isn't the song that moves me most....for me, it's the deep existential theme of The Greatest Show On Earth.
Thanks for reacting to this it is the saddest song from nightwish but also strangely the most uplifting. The start of the song says the end and the end says the beginning it is genius songwriting and song beautifully as usual by floor from the nightwish in england
I like it when Floor looked over at Tuomas when she was sitting down. Floor says a soft thank you at the end.
This is a masterpiece! I have heard that they are not going to play it live again. But i hope that they will play it again because it is really as i said an masterpiece
The Poet and The Pendulum is always a banger, I can never get enough of it
A great song from Nightwish. You should read the open letter from them to Tarja. And than you will understand where this song is about. Tuomas was so depressed from all the negativity that he did get . That he luckely did kill himself in the song instead of doing it in real live. Gives me goosebumbs every time i hear it
At the beginning of The Pacific when the bowed double bass plays along with Floor's beautiful voice, it is just magnificent. It's my favorite part of the song.
Here we go. My No 1 NW song. 🍿
Hope you had tissues to hand when you watched this. We shall see - off we go...
As soneone who has lived through depression I recognise every stage Tuomas documents here.
There's enough here to write a thesis, but best leave that to others this time.
In outline, it is a song of 5 parts:
I. White Lands of Empathica
II. Home
III. The Pacific
IV. Dark Passion Play
V. Mother and Father
Each describes something of the journey through depression, after the split with Tarja, to salvation by his parents and the beginning of a new version of Nightwish
This is Tuomas' the most impressive song ever 🤘💕
Thank you for reacting to this masterpiece! I've watched this video maybe a hundred times.. never gets old, and it "gets" me every single time! 👍💖
The first time I heard this song, I played it at least 15 more times immediately after that because I was so captivated by it. It was so beautiful and I could not digest it all at once.
Agreed!
They will never play this again. Mythical Wembley, one of the most important songs in bands history and Floor absolutely kills it. They know it was perfect execution and should not even try to repeat that. This is what it was always meant to be.
I agree, although part of me is curious about how Floor would sound attempting Marko's "second robber to the right of Christ" part. But yeah, I agree this performance simply couldn't have been any better
A true masterpiece! So much emotion in the music and lyrics. Tuomas a certified genius. They only performed this live 20 times with Floor and not since 2016, and unlikely ever again. Those that saw it performed live are quite fortunate, and we are lucky to have this video from Wembley. Keep exploring Nightwish!
Thank you for the kind words and I concur with you 100% -- a masterpiece!!
@@susanhoffman4835 decided to rewatch this again, after a little more insight learned today. Even more powerful. You guys took this on fairly early in your journey. I feel like I failed you in not giving you fair warning or preparation, or even recommending you hold off. You have an amazing daughter and family. 🫶
@@kentk2215 thank you first of all! And yeah I agree with you on doing this too soon ...
Thank you guys again❤ There is quite big story behind this Master piece. But I hope you Will not discuss about it here In tube!!!! But read it. It is long gone and buried. We really do not need another, like 10 000 debates here anymore. Thank you. NW-fan since 1996. Regards from Finland❤❤❤
good song when life going like that way when no body happy and when there is not good or bad ones. again emotional song nightwish,like so many,i love it. thanx great reaction and have wonderful weekend.
I never tire of watching this performance, though I find it pretty draining, even after endless viewings. I get drawn in every time, and the hand across the throat still gives me chills. It's probably Tuomas's magnum opus. Great reaction, guys. Look forward to a deeper analysis.
Thanks Jeannette! Be blessed!
You may get comments saying "you should do your research"! Ignore them. This masterpiece can be appreciated on several levels, and you clearly 'felt' it. It is Tuomas' story of dealing with depression. There is a long back story which doesn't have to be rehashed here, there are plenty of places to find that if you want to. The last part, after the 1000 pages of erased text, is what Tuomas' parents said to him which helped him to recover. I think deep down Sue felt exactly that. This song is unlikely to be played live again as Tuomas says he doesn't feel like this any more. Thank you for doing this one. I must have seen and heard it more than a hundred times and it still gets me!
Agree to disagree. While the song can be enjoyed without understanding it's inspiration I feel the emotional impact is much less. I have seen reactors do it both ways and very clearly those who understand the backstory get the full emotional impact of the song which is what makes it such a masterpiece.
I agree. The song is amazing to any "uneducated" listener, and if that person then does research into the song, it will become a masterpiece to them. I think to many people don't get a lot of the symbolism/references to the actual Poem too.
I think poetry can be felt and understood on an emotional level through music - music that no words could adequately describe. That being said, I do enjoy and experience songs better when I know the whole story. And yes Dave I DID feel exactly that! Be blessed my friend!
@@rnowak85 I agree. You get the full impact if you know the back story. It's a difficult song to decipher without that back story
This is such an emotional song there are opposing thoughts when one part of Tuomas mind not wanting Tarja to leave and the other side knowing it was the best thing thoughts from a severed head. Love watching both of you guys reacting i feel it too as we all. God bless.
This was Tuomas’ suicide-by-song after Tarja was dismissed. Letting her go was depressing enough, as they had been old friends, but then the backlash he got from fans just made it worse. The last section consists of the words his mother said to him that helped him come around. Another testament to Tuomas’ genius…from the point where the narration says, “I have three minutes and counting” to the point where you see Tuomas make the throat-slashing gesture: exactly three minutes.
Thanks for the info Zozo - so interesting! Be blessed!
Hey SueSue and wolfman…already tickets for Nightwish, this month in USA. Great show in Helsinki and Toronto . Floor live…the best there is.
Im so envious! I hope you have the time of your life!
I could see the profound effect this most deeply emotional offering from Tuomas had upon you both and I look forward to your follow up video. You guys have quickly become one of my favourite channels, its a pleasure to be part of your journey 🤘
Thanks so much Jim! Blessings to you!
Couldn't agree more.
@@susanhoffman4835 thankyou 🙂
Thankyou for your reaction to this masterpiece
What a singer that Marco is......!
Facts!
I'm here early this time! Excited that you guys reacted to this! Such a powerful song with such a unique story behind its writing that makes it all the more emotional.
Your faces during the song said it all..This masterpiece is somthing else..Thank you for this wonderful reaction.
Greetings again SueSueandthe Wolfman! Nightwish Army Nebraska checking back in. I absolutely loved your reaction to this song. As many have explained, this song is very deep and meaningful so I appreciate you reading the lyrics and feeling the song the way it was meant to be felt. Hopefully you guys can see Nightwish on their current tour. I will be at the concert in Denver May 15th and I’m beyond excited. I am looking forward to more reactions.
Btw…I love that you ask if anyone needs prayer. 😊
Thank you Steve! I hope you have a magical time!
And prayers said for you anytime !
Thanks, i love this song, greetings from Colombia
Hey Leonardo!
Great reaction, again. Thanks SueSue and Wolfman
Bless you Jab!
By the way you always do such a great job reacting 😀
Bless you Chris !
The big brained singer is a channel that goes word for word explaining every line of this masterpiece.
Great reaction from you guys love from Canada
It was nice to see how this most personal song by Tuomas touched you. Unfortunately, you didn't have time to go into it properly. I'm really looking forward to seeing you do it again.
Thanks Kelsea! For some reason youtube doesn't allow us to do a video more than 15 minutes long, but I think Wolfman found a way through that and we can do longer now!
Good one.
Legendary
"The end........ The beginning"
And Helluwa Lot in between.
🤩👌💥💯
🤘😎 🇫🇮 💙
You got that right !! 💜
their best
Thanks great reaction !!
Thats why she is the Goodess
You 2 miss Floors *"Thank you"*
shoot! I'm sorry about that!
i love her thank you.so humble and heartfelt
🇬🇧 Norfolk on your journey
Masterpiece ! Who else but Tuomas can say I only have three minutes and counting and then exactly three minutes later the blade falls?
And the riff Marco plays when he sings solo part without looking !
missed the dogs again. haha day off maybe?..thanx again for your sweet reaction to this epic song....
yes! Since the weather has been nice they have so much fun outside! We bring them on when they're in the mood - lol. Be blessed!!
NIghtwish - Gethsemane live "99 !!!!
Search for beauty, find your shore
Try to save them all, bleed no more
It’s even more moving when you do the research on the song Wyatt was with written it is Thomases musical suicide so he didn’t do it in real life and those at the end the words mother and father were from my understanding exactly what his mother had talk to him about and when they do play the song which I don’t think they really do anymore Thomas usually hast to disconnect from the headphones so he cannot hear Flor sing because it hurts his heart so much that’s why you see Mpuru and Marco go up to him at the end of checking on him to see if he’s OK
Oh and just reminded of something else you should hear, if you haven't yet: Sahara from the Tampa, Florida, show.
Y’all Austinites? I see your Austin shirt. I live in Hyde park in Austin. I’m going to see Nightwish next week in Minneapolis!
I hope you have the time of your life! That will be so fun! No, we are in Arkansas, but have lived all over - including Texas! Be blessed Rachael!
What a masterpiece by Tuomas Holopainen. I am so thrilled that Nightwish started their May 2022 North America Tour two nights ago in Toronto. Here is their setlist:
* Opening drum solo from Music
1. Noise
2. Planet Hell
3. Tribal
4. Elan
5. Storytime
6. She is My Sin
7. Harvest
8. 7 Days to the Wolves
9. Dark Chest of Wonders
10. I Want My Tears Back
11. Ever Dream
12. Nemo
13. How's the Heart (acoustic)
14. Shoemaker
15. Last Ride of the Day
16. Ghost Love Score
17. The Greatest Show on Earth
Nightwish Army, let's help them sell out every show.
Watching your body language I was surprised by how much Wolfman was effected...Your squirming gave you away ... It's ok , we all cry with this song...It was supposed to do that...
Maybe their finest performance.
There is a version texted with the 5 chapters, including the spoken words of the soprano boys.
****
That one really got you 👍
True Kim!
"All I Am Is Smoke And Mirrors" -Tuomas Holopainen-
FLOOR making us grown man crying
True !
In SHORT - this is there most personal song its about Tuomas after the open letter to the world about the firing of 1st singer Tarja , He had deep depression from the backlash . This is an on stage suicide by Tuomas to help him put the pain behind , Note the part "I have but 3 min" exactly 3 min is when he kills himself. the last part (Mother & Father) are words said to him by his parents then at the very end Emppu & Marco stand next to him to for support.
Thanks! 👍
Hey Kai 😄
Take some time with this one, it was obvious the song moved you so enjoy whatever exploration you want.
Nightwish = Metal Mozarts
Wow that was epic and very deep (loved the quiet part near the end when they sat down together). Thanks again for uploading and look forward to your analysis. All the best.
The studio version was recorded with Anette as lead singer. She didn't do operatic vocals, so choirs did them. Floor wanted to take over all of them when she joined, but Tuomas wanted to keep the boy soprano at the beginning of this song.
Near the beginning ,you see Emppu go say something to Tuomas, he was asking him how he was doing. You can see Tuomas say 'Awesome'. At the end Emppu and Marko go to him in a show of support. And Floor pauses and looks over to him for a moment before saying 'Thank You'
Is there something limiting your videos to 15 minutes? Or did you only have that amount of time to do this? I hope it's the latter because The Greatest Show On Earth is a 21 minute song.
Forky couldn't handle it right from the start
Yeah he had just had enough! lol! Blessings to you Jeroen!
You guys jumped right into the deep end of the pool with this one. The Poet and the Pendulum was written after firing Tarja the original singer. She was the face of Nightwish at the time, and Tuomas considered her a muse to many of the songs he had written at that point. They had also grown up in the same city and knew each other since early childhood. All the band members decided together to fire her for acting too much of a diva. According to all the band members, Tarja was missing lots of rehearsals and would not even travel with the band anymore. Tuomas was painted as the devil by many fans, and went through a deep dark depression. He even considered ending the band and committing suicide. He wrote The Poet and the Pendulum at that time, and actually kills himself in the song. He said he killed himself in the song, as to not do it in real life. To this day every time he plays it, it takes him back to those feelings, and shows on his face. In the last part, Mother and Father, words are sung to him that his real mother said to him at that time of his deep depression. One part that touches me at the end when the guitarist Emppu and bassist Marko, the only other two involved with firing Tarja (that were still active with the band)were standing with Tuomas at the end in solidarity and love. The Open Letter to Tarja is the letter the band gave to Tarja dismissing her signed off on by all band members. nightwish.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Tarja_Turunen
Thanks for all the great info Allen!
If you check the lyrics it is defined in parts. It might help that you to know Edgar Allen Poe's, The Pit and the Pendulum.
However, this piece is written backwards and starts at the end, which is whispered and you saw the physical end titled the beginning when I believe Tuomas went to his parents and confided he could not carry on under the intense vilification from all sides, as your commentators note, this is partly verbatim of what Tuomas' parents said to him, the deadly pendulum also being an allegory for this pressure.
Marko. to my mind, portrays the anger and hatred coming from the fans and media.
Marko and Emppu went through it too and stand with Tuomas at the end in support, however, in the upbeat number before this in the set, Floor, who wasn't there at the time, gives her own way of supporting Tuomas through what was a difficult time and a very difficult song for him to perform.
I'll remind you when you get to that.
No need to break this one up. It is an amazing piece that should be appreciated as a whole. Sadly there are still Tarja fans who can't accept her dismissal whereas if she had left as she intended perhaps Tuomas would not have been in a state to write this and other great songs.
Try Northward. When love dies. It's a side project of Floors
music: a combination of sounds, with a view to beauty and expression of emotion... and that's what this song is.
for your next reaction to one of Nightwish's masterpieces I suggest you the song "the greatest show on earth" in the incredibly spectacular performance of the 2015 concert in Tampere - Finland th-cam.com/video/45brzDJKZ3o/w-d-xo.html
its ok take your time i promise you will listen and watch this 80 times, i applaud you not pausing 50 times during the video thats FN awesome this is a 5 part masterpiece on the pain of dismissing the original lead singer tarja turenen, who co founded the group in 96 with tuomas and empuu tarja married in 99 and was easing to solo career, so the band wanted her fdismissed and tuomas was suicidal over having to fire his lifelong BFF, he decided to create a song on the feelings of deep loss paranoia as nightwish fans and their homelsand blamed tuomas as he thought nightwish was finished part 5 mother and father are consoling him on his loss oh BTW its best to not resist a fullon floorgasm from our 6' 141 pound dutch valkyrie queen floor jansen, i never can, i assume you've reacted to ghost love score so complete the nightwish holy trinity, the greatest show on earth either one tampere or with richard dawkins, with vocal messaging the whole world should hear you'll also love last ride of the day, everdream, romanticide and 2 softer ones sleeping sun and elan
And Live🤘♥️
Here are a few more recommendations:
1. Nightwish - Yours Is An Empty Hope.Vehicle Of Spirit.Live at Wembley
2. Nightwish live at Tampere The Greatest Show On Earth (Please take Tampere Show and not Wembley)
3. Nightwish - The Kinslayer (Floor Jansen) [Decades - Live In Buenos Aires 2019] Reaction!
4. Nightwish - The Phantom Of The Opera (OFFICIAL LIVE) with the original singer Tarja
5. Nightwish - Sleeping Sun (LIVE) with original singer Tarja
6. Nightwish - Sleeping Sun (Live) with Floor Jansen - 2016
7. Nightwish - Wishmaster [Live] with original singer Tarja
8. Nightwish - Shoemaker (Official Lyric Video) (new Album and Video)
Recommendations for Epica:
1. Epica - Sancta Terra (feat Floor Jansen) Live Retrospect show
2. Epica - Consign To Oblivion (Live at Zenith)
3. Epica - Kingdom of Heaven PT 3 - (ΩMEGA ALIVE) (OFFICIAL VIDEO)
Reconmendation for Wintersun
1. Wintersun - Sons Of Winter And Stars (TIME I Live Rehearsals At Sonic Pump Studios) REMASTER
2. Wintersun - Time (TIME I Live Rehearsals At Sonic Pump Studios) REMASTER
Recommendation Sabaton
1. Sabaton - En Livstid I Krig (Live - The Great Tour - Gothenburg)
2. Sabaton - No Bullets Fly (Animated Story Video)
Recommendation Rammstein ( Best live shows on earth and best music videos and most unique metal band in these days)
1. Rammstein - Paris - Du Hast (Official Video)
2. Rammstein - Engel (Live from Madison Square Garden)
3. Rammstein - Ich Tu Dir Weh (Live from Madison Square Garden)
4. Rammstein - Mein Teil [Live Hurricane Festival 2013 HD] (Subtítulos Español)
5. Rammstein - Rammlied (Live from Madison Square Garden)
6. Rammstein - Feuer Frei! (LIVE at Download Festival 2013) | [Pro-Shot] HD 1080p
7. Rammstein - Deutschland (Official Video)
8. Rammstein - Mein Herz Brennt (Official Video)
9. Rammstein - Ich Will (Hurricane Festival 2016) PROSHOT HD [GER/ENG/RU/ES/FR]
10. Rammstein - Sonne / PROSHOT(Download Festival 2016) HD [GER/ENG/RU/ES/FR]
11. Rammstein - Zeit (new Album and Video)
12 Rammstein - Angst (new Album and Video)
Live these transitions on Nihgtwish producrions. Tuomas IS Genie
Completely of topic of Nightwish which is hard for me to do😅 Anyway if you haven't already try Falling in Reverse "Zomified" completely different but I thin you will like it., could be wrong but yeah never know 🍻😎
We are together again nordics
Wow, this one got to you, especially SueSue was soon in to it. Would be nice to hear your thoughts on this song.
At the time we did this video we thought that we were limited to a 15 minute reaction so we kind of hurried through it. Now we found out that we can go longer than that I think we might do another reaction to it because it’s such a dense, loaded song with so much to respond to.
@@susanhoffman4835 sounds Good because this is one of the most "important" songs in the Nightwish discography. And they will most likely never play it live again.
1
Popular Monster as well by them FIR
Such a great performance
However this song without knowing the context can be confusing for first time listeners.
It's great art, although it's definitely not a "feel good" song :-) Tuomas has an amazing ability to put music to his emotions :-)
yes you're right its not a "feel good" song, but its so enthralling and captivating and genius. Bless you Carsten !
Norway is not even part of Eu but i could go there like im one of them. I can fish and camp every scandi coutry
You goto bar here is 10
"The poet and the pendulum" is from Anette's time. It was released on the album Dark Passion Play (2007), the group's sixth. According to Tuomas this song was the way he found to deal with the depression after Tarja's departure. The band received a lot of hatred from all over the world. They lost a lot of fans. I'm going to summarize the story for you to understand why people's reaction was so negative.
Tarja's resignation was a very dramatic episode. The relationship between her and the band had been bad for some time, so at the end of 2004 she decided to tell the band that she would leave. The idea was to record one last album and go on a farewell tour. She wanted to announce her decision to the public and prepare fans for the vocalist change, however, Tuomas convinced her not to do so at the time.
It turns out that, after that meeting, the band planned a public firing on the sly. They delivered a letter to Tarja at the end of the "End of an era" show and posted it on the band's website the next day. The band made several accusations against Tarja and her husband. It was a scandal.
In response, Tarja wrote a letter and held a press conference to respond better to the group's accusations. Her husband also spoke. He answered more than 150 questions from fans around the world and posted the answers on the internet.
Given the reports that were brought and other available records, including videos and documentaries, a large part of the fan base revolted against the band. Faced with criticism from different sides, Tuomas fell into a depression and wrote "The poet and the pendulum" as a way of dealing with the situation.
Some say that Tuomas suffered from unrequited love for Tarja. This feeling would have been the fuel for the composition of some songs. The question of Tuomas' love for Tarja is actually an old theory of fans. This theory was built even before Tarja's dismissal, and is based on old interviews and on the lyrics that Tuomas used to write.
The idea of the existence of unrequited love was strengthened when Marcelo himself (Tarja's husband) spoke about the subject in the responses he gave to fans. See these answers:
"36) Many people say that everything this happened because
he Tuomas felt something for the Tarja and this feeling was not corresponded. It was the impression that passed. This can be answered? Or not?
Heluza Mercaus Viegas Brazil
I promised that everything was going to be answered.
To cut a long story short, in October 2004 I needed to ask Tuomas to come to talk to Tarja and me in our hotel room in the middle of the tour.
Even though he knows Tarja many years before me, he never could achieve his goal.
In this meeting I clearly told him that his chances to be with Tarja were gone.
I needed to tell him that there was no reason to keep on trying any longer, since I married her.
As usual he didn't speak much, but he said to me that nobody was going to be able to stop his love for Tarja.
After this unhappy meeting, everything changed.
The guy that until then said in interviews that, without Tarja, that would be the end of Nightwish, changed his message into: Nightwish is my band, my music, my lyrics, the scenery of my soul.
Is up to you to check all interviews from the band before and after end of 2004 until today.
Tarja never changed her thoughts about her position in the band.
She has never mentioned that Nightwish was her band or that she was more important than the other band members.
Nightwish lyrics are Tuomas' life diary, as it has been said. With this new information that I am sharing with you, please check once again some of them. We all can find amazing songs with beautiful lyrics full of poetry. Their meaning won't remain that uncertain any longer.
37) Was Tarja in any romance/love way with Tuomas (he seems jelouice to me).
Mariela Todoroviè Slovenia
Tarja never had any romance nor was ever in love with him.
I have received many questions accusing Tuomas of being jealous, envious, bitter and of being in love. I have no interest in making any judgement about those things and people's feelings.
Other people than Tuomas also told me how much they love Tarja. There are many different levels of love and I have no problems with any of them as long as reasonable limits are not exceeded.
Is funny if you carefully check the cover of End of an Era (that Tarja didn't propose, but accepted).
You will find what seems to be an angel (Tarja's nickname in the official forum of her web page) and a demon or god. Only these two characters dominate the scene. I couldn't find any other characters in the cover at all.
They are standing facing away from each other.
Between them there is turmoil and a strong light, whether striking into or coming out of a cracked heart.
It is definitely not Tarja's heart. Her heart is very healthy and full of love, because she has always listened to it (instead of me); as Tuomas advised her to do in the open letter.
The title of the scene is "Nightwish - End of an Era".
You can make your own conclusions. I am merely describing a DVD cover
157) What were, in your opinion, the real motives for Tarja Turunen to be out of Nightwish?
¿Cuáles fueron, en tu opinión, los verdaderos motivos de la salida de Tarja Turunen de Nightwish? Marta Perez Spain
I think we will never know the real motives. Motives rest in Tuomas, some close people and band members' hearts. Seems there has been at least very strong motives to kick out Tarja, specially the way they did it.
Some of them might be the mentioned cultural differences that band members have in their minds and hearts with me, the non corresponded love from Tuomas to Tarja, Tarja's values that didn't match Tuomas and Tarja's maturity that didn't match Tuomas and the others, not compatible life styles between band members, different concept of friendship and responsibilities that comes with it, different approach to record business, the obvious problem to communicate within the band; just to name a few."
The depression itself and the song "The poet and the pendulum" can, in theory, be read as a reflection of this love drama. Regardless of whether this theory about Tuomas is true or not, the fact is that bringing internal issues to the public was the worst choice. A lot of the band's past has been brought up and no one has come out unscathed. Because of the scandal, Tarja lost some fans and contracts for her solo career. On the other hand, the band also lost fans and had little-known events brought to a wider audience. For example, Tarja suffered an attempted sexual abuse in the middle of a concert in Guadalajara in 2000.
At the time, the band continued playing as if nothing had happened, even after Tarja left the stage along with the criminal and the security guards. There are videos of the episode here on TH-cam. Later, after Tarja left, the band itself mentioned the event in its official biography.
The way the band decided to fire Tarja and the facts of the past that were brought to public knowledge infuriated many fans. To get a sense of how big the fan base was in the past, look at the number of views of the first videos with Anette ("Bye, bye, beautiful" and "Amaranth"). These numbers are representative of the fan base situation at the end of Tarja's period and beginning of Anette.
The first album with Anette was the band's first album ever released with TH-cam ever running. We were all curious to know who the new singer was and what she sounded like. Unfortunately Anette didn't please a large part of the original fan base, which also contributed to the band losing more fans. Anette and Floor helped to attract a different audience and reconfigure the fan base. Some old fans have returned with the entry of Floor. She is nothing new to us. For example, I've known her since her first band, After Forever. Here are some sources:
Resignation letter written by the band: nightwish.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Tarja_Turunen
Tarja's press conference after the dismissal, in full:
th-cam.com/video/ATDFinGZ8D8/w-d-xo.html
Marcelo's detailed response to questions sended by Nightwish fans at the dismissal
epoque: www.tuomasholopainen.fora.pl/wywiady-artykuly,29/odpowiedzi-marcelo-na-pytania-fanow-czerwiec-2006,455.html
Letter written by Tarja: nightwish.fandom.com/wiki/Open_Letter_from_Tarja_Turunen
A snippet from the book "Once Upon a Nightwish" detailing the abuse incident -
fromwishestoeternity.tumblr.com/post/111177476493/alfaangel-i-just-put-together-some-facts-about/amp
The video of the abuse incident: th-cam.com/video/3bj4h1807kY/w-d-xo.html