Is the Compact Tractor Obsolete? Avant Mini Articulated Loader Test Drive!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- There were multiple small articulated loaders at the GIE Expo last week. Tractor Time with Tim test drives the Avant with log grapple!
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Now after Tim put in some seat time in the little loader did the machine increase or decrease in value 😁
Try the bigger Avant 635, hired one which had the hydraulic rear hitch fitted as a extra, & I had several attachments, backhoe,pallet forks & 4 in 1 bucket,which was just superb, couldn't fault the machine,plus you can add extra rear & side counterweights,there also wheel weights available.
So much versatility,better than the tractor or even a skid steer.
BUT, Bobcat has just annouced their new Compact Articulated Loader due out spring 2020.
Hi Tim,
Thanks for the great video of the Avant loader. I looked at these very closely earlier this year. They have some awesome features and their design is state of the art. Especially when you consider what they can do for their size. I like the fact that the larger units have a Kohler diesel engine! Also the larger units have quite a bit more horsepower that the new Bobcat entry. The only unfortunate issue I had, was the price point. It's steep! Better dig deep into your wallet. And as you mentioned in the video that the dealer network is kind of slim, but for me the closest dealer was only a little more than an hour away.
We personally have an avant 225 in our fleet, every worker who has operated it has liked them better than the mini track loaders( mt55, toro dingo). The only problem with our machine like time mentioned is the dealer network. Everytime we have to get it serviced we have to drive 1hr30min - 2hrs( depending on traffic). Parts is also another part of it, we had to wait 3 weeks for a part to arrive from finland, so the machine was down 3weeks. The mini articulated loader is a game changer for the landscape industry. Less wear and tear on tires, turf, concrete. We want to pick up another articulated loader, but with a bad dealer avant will have to wait. The bobcat seems like it is definitely going to be a game changer, bigger dealer network, only 15min away from me.
You might want to put a message avant that you would like better spare parts available.
I've seen these machines all over Michigan for a few years now, they're owned (almost exclusively) by landscape/hardscape companies. The only dealer I know of in Michigan that sells and services Avant is Alta Equipment Company; they've got ~10 locations scattered across the state.
I look forward to relax in the evening and what your videos. Thanks
One every day this week! Lots of relaxing time! Thanks for watching!
You see “industrial espionage” like that at a lot of equipment shows such as conexpo
Standard R&D (Rip-off & Duplicate)... same thing at Auto Shows when you see someone taking 10 pictures of a car's headlight.
Very interesting. That might take a little bit to get used to. Good video Tim. ....they should've let you jump the line to get the video made 😁
Wow! I went to their website and was amazed at all the tasks that these machines can do, check out their backhoe. Like Ventrac, you have to make a decision to go all-in on your implements as they are hydraulically powered vs PTO. I think I would miss my 3 pt hitch too much if I give up my JD 2025R but I wouldn't turn down an Avant if somebody offered me one! Grinning hugely.
You can get Skid steer and mini skid steer adapters for the Avants, so you can buy skid steer attachments, and mini skid like toro etc. Switching attachments with an avant is fast because you just lift 2 pins to decouple the attachment and pull 1 lever to disconnect both hydraulic lines. There's an option to be able to electrically lift the pins in the cab, so you don't need to get out, switch attachments.
Even without the electrical pin option, to attach a new attachment, you don't need to leave the cab if there's no hydraulic hookup, like attaching pallet forks or a bucket, for example, but to hook up the hydraulics is simple and quick. You just put the quick connect into the multi connector and pull the lever to lock the lines in th-cam.com/video/UfRCDBfDqHA/w-d-xo.html
Do they have counterweight packs available for the rear like they do for some MiniEX machines?
Yes, rear, rear sides & wheel weights available.
Seems like a sturdy little thing.
Loved playing with one
Them small wheel loaders definitely look nice. Don’t look like it go in 7 foot garage door. It handed that log well.
Versatile little loaders!
i saw other brands of these on here with other people at gie and one has mower and other attachments, i really like them
Yes, more of them than ever before. Seems to be a trend.
@@TractorTimewithTim
The Avant is special, it has better stability due to its construction.
Doesn't Human the tree guy have one of these ? Thought he said he hated it ?
I am pretty sure he did
Nice machine but I will keep my tractor. Again it is what do you need to do with your machine and buy based on your needs.
Interesting. Enjoy seeing all that is out there but think I will keep my Johnny.
Try going up an incline with that log. It won’t go !!!! Great for flatl land. What good is that !!
Around here...that is fine :-)
Yes it will.
I've wondered why articulated sub compacts weren't popular in the U.S. Some of the home modified articulated garden tractors are pretty well done and seem to work well. Having 4 equal sized drive wheels ought to be useful in a subcompact
Could see this being good if you had some light forestry work routinely.
Well, for THIS attachment. Remember, there are over 100 attachments.
@@TractorTimewithTim
150 or more. From Avant and even the competitors attachments fit.
Hi Tim! That’s a very nice device! Does it come in Kubota orange? 😀
Compact tractors obsolete? Not likely, I've looked at similar machines and while they do have advantages the sticking point for me is: implements with hydraulically driven motors generally seem to cost more per foot of working width than PTO-driven implements, and also seem to require higher hp machines per foot of working width.
That being said when it comes to loader work they do have several an advantages (e.g. visibility, loader arm rigidity when digging), and (to my mind) one major disadvantage: the lack of being able to add a functional counterweight (i.e. a second implement). It's not often I use both a front and rear implement at the exact same time, but there are occasions I do. More frequently I'll be using them in sequence in which case not having to change implements (and transiting from the spot where I'm working to do so) is also handy.
So really in my opinion all comes down to individual tradespace of what's needed to perform the tasks, and what trade-offs are acceptable. ...and I'd wager there's enough variation in individuals'/business's needs that all of these different types of machines will continue to have & gain buyers.
Excellent analysis in my opinion. Agree on more expensive attachments when hydraulic.
Tim, have you reviewed the Giant brand of small loaders? Holland company selling out of DesMoines, IA. They seem to offer a nice variety of attachments
I have not.
Amazing pice of equipment 👍
Back Tires loaded on that Tim?
I have no idea....but they would be if I had one!! Rimguard!!!
Is it a single type of operation machine or are there other implements to put on it?
At least over 100 attachments for Avant. Designed and manufactured here in Finland, go www.avanttecno.com for more information.
Not paid for advertisement, just lived 5 miles from factory.
I would take Norcar from Finland, because cab should be on rear frame, but that's just me having experience from bigger loaders.
It looked like one wheel was coming off the ground. Does the articulation not rotate like on a Ventrac?
Good point. Not sure.
Hi Jimmy.
The only articulation is the bend-in-the-middle joint to give steering. There is no suspension, no axle articulation, and no swivel between the front and rear halves to allow all four wheels to stay on the ground. If you jacked up the front left wheel, the front right wheel or the back left wheel would also lift.
Although this set-up can give the driver a bumpy ride over rough surfaces, it greatly helps stability when a load is lifted high, eg when emptying grain with a bucket into a high-sided trailer.
We used to have swinger which was similar but not as advanced for sure. Great for landscapers. Suck in mud.
hey tim, have you seen or used kubotas articulated loader yet i think the one i seen here in Australia is 2ton -2,500kg ton rated
no
@@TractorTimewithTim maybe it's something you might be able to look into they're pretty cool but dunno if jD has one yet and would be best of both worlds if they did
We have them here in Canada as well. The landscaping company up the road has them a fleet of them. Work great for snow clearing.
My dad has an avant
WELL THAT FIRST MOVE WAS IF I MAY SAY WAS JUST FLAMING NUTS.... OTHER THAN THAT I'LL GIVE YOU CREDIT YOU TESTED IT OUT, MY GUESS IS THAT YOU SCARED THE BEJESUS OUT OF THEM.
Ha.
if deere made one like that for 25,000 i would certainly be getting one... but i wold rather the cab be mounted on the rear section like on the bigger loaders...
Avant R-series. But it's actually better when mounted on the front.
I don't think anyone sells these for 20 or 25 thousand they all are more like 35 to 45 thousand except for the Chinese brands.
Eventually I think they'll take a lot of the market away from the skid steers.
As a dedicated manufacturer Kubota could pull it off. Deere and Bobcat are not the same quality they used to be. I know that Bobcat was sticking their name on Kioti made gear at one point.
Are there other attachments for the boom, like forks, or is that a single purpose machine?
Specialty item
Mini skid is more versatile
Not really a skid loader curious what their target audience is? Maybe small sawmills? That’s an odd feeling when your seat is attached to the front part of the articulation. I like it the other way, gives a better sense of which way you will be going in reverse.
Uh, think more broadly than the log grapple! It has 100+ attachments!
Tractor Time with Tim oh that’s a game changer, like skidsteers if you can afford the attachments. For sure versatile if it can change out .
ALTWT ? We'd have to buy new shirts, caps, etc..
Yes, and they are quite nice.
I've got an Avant and a JD 1036r. The Avant gets used ten times more than the compact tractor. The Avant far more manoeuvrable and gets used on more jobs. It lifts more and takes less time to change tools than any tractor.
Yes for $25k
I want one of those things so bad. I think the maneuverability and the size alone is nice. But you don't have any three point hitch options on a machine like that
Not real 3-point hitch, but there is a hydraulic rear mount available for attachments. So possible to use tools behind the machine also.
Why do we need a 3 point hitch? Every conceivable attachment is available for the front.
@@TractorTimewithTim that is a very good point. I didn't think of that. And Thanks for the great videos
www.skidsteersolutions.com/motorized-3-point-adapter-eterra/
Works great provide about 12 pto hp with standard flow
You just have to remember. An articulated loader is always more unstable than non-articulated. Can't change the laws of physics. If you can keep that in mind and don't be a dumb dumb then those things have a lot of great uses in many different fields.
Avant loaders don't really ever tip over.
Ha!
Powered by Kubota over priced by Avant and bobcat. 600lb log????
What would you estimate? I dunno. ...and I said I didn’t know.
So kind of like John Deere copying the Kubota BX series since it was the first Sub Compact tractor.
1st again
russia can make one cheaper than that
Ironic last scene, JD build most of the stuff they have by copying/stealing or buying into other peoples inventions. I don't like that in any way or form no matter who does it.
When I see those guys looking at all the machinery in an attempt to "copy" it - I then wonder how they actually ever sell anything - because of similar booths where similar guys are trying to sell knockoffs that mostly look dangerous. I'm wondering who is actually buying that stuff - GIE booths are not cheap.
I suspect doing analysis on a small tractor is easier than sending a few guys to a trade show. They can simply have someone purchase the machines and attachments from a local dealer and load them in a shipping container.
I checked those out at Paul Bunyan show, pretty cool little unit
Do they have test drive area @ Paul Bunyan?
@@TractorTimewithTim, no test drives, have lots of demo equipment running, sawmills, grinders, processors but no where for attendees to run anything
@@OutdoorsWithTheMorgans
Hi Mike.
I did a comment on this on your channel a long time ago. You will find the Avant easily doing the same work as the two smaller RK`s on your property.
Boy does that thing ever look not fun to operate lol I'm sure its ok but seems pretty sketchy on the slightest of uneven ground with a load.
Would be good to actually make more compact equipment and machinery. Small farmers/ hobby farmers would be the best customers. If the prices could be lesser, and big greedy not all big farmers, would stop trying to push the little guys out. The small 4 -6 town combines, small round bale equipment would be awesome to have. Jist take awhile to start paying for themselves. I'm slowly getting there. Thanks
I'm considering the Avant 423 as a first machine. While I ultimately want to get some land and do lumbermilling, right now we live in a small city (the municipality calls itself a city, but I'd say small town) with about 1/4 acre of yard.
The 423 is light enough I could safely and legally trailer it with my minivan, so I could try to develop a side gig as landscaping without being under USDOT. Even at this size, though, the capability of the machine is still pretty high.
It looks like they have things covered in the attachment department. I don't see a woodchipper and I've emailed Avant about the availability of an adapter to use Avant attachments on a skid steer style loader.
If I'm able to get land someday I'd probably supplement with a tractor of about 50 HP and won't want to be in a rush to purchase duplicate functionality.
He thinks that log is 600lbs 😂
The attachment alone is 500lbs and he’s not even thinking about that
The issue is how the attachments run the line near a pinch point instead of routing the hydraulic lines up. Amazing machine otherwise
The Mrs. probably thinking 🤔 enjoy your temporary toy. But you have enough
they are nice machines but they are way too expensive
At the same price point as a similar sized tractor they would sell
The smallest Avant loader in Australia costs a little more than a brand name sub compact tractor. However it comes with a Kohler petrol/gasoline engine. I’m not keen on petrol engines. Avant makes a battery powered loader which I am interested in. I’d love to have a battery powered machine in my orchard. Stopping at trees to do work would bring on silence.
I’m interested in seeing an Avant loader drive on a slope. How safe are Avants on slopes?
They are sage, but better with some weight in the front end. I suppose you will bring a tool anyway, as a pallet fork og bucket for carrying things.
I use mine on slopes and it is not behind a tractor.
New friend here! Great video.. Looking forward to catching up on content! 😁
Hey, thanks for checking in. Welcome to our channel. Over 500 episodes published. You'll be up all night! :-)
That articulated loader is pretty cool I could definitely see that being useful for tree work and landscape/hardscaping projects
Look up the you tube chanle human they use them .. he is a lot more Foul mouth
It seems like a bit too much money for the load it's made to handle. Cool machine though, thanks for the review.
It can lift about 1000 kg on a pallet. I'd say thats very reasonable for the price.
As a sinner, thank you Jesus for forgiving my "envy" of Tim's time with tractors and stuff. Good video. Waiting on the Bobcat tractors reviews, I see there are several size/hp/trans/options , Bobcat dealer has good reputation/service around central Indiana. Should be interesting to see how Bobcats new re /entry into small tractor market plays out, Big investment on their part it seems. I want to here details about how its a bobcat, made by bobcat. and how much better than the last try at tractors, as we know the new ones do need to be better.
Saturday 3pm for the Bobcat tractors. And no, they are not made by bobcat yet. It is identical to the Kioti.
The video will share some details about their future plans to change that.
Nice, hope the Local dealer works with you to let us all see a real TTWT demo of one or two of the new tractors.
This sound like a machine that kuboda would come out with
kubota has made a articulated loader already but it's 2 ton rated i think for memory, we have few in Australia
I ment a smaller loader.
Avant already has the Kubota engine onboard.
@@marshallwilliams5214 kubota did make something like it my local nursery has a couple with nursery jaws
The Avant is way overpriced and is no even close to the Weidemann, called Wacker in US I recon.
The bobcat makes the Avant look like a steal!
I have no idea how much the avant- costs. Did it sound like I was saying it was $25k? I did not say that. Rather, I said, what if...
If deere or kubota had one at the $25k point I'd be getting one tomorrow
Why? Avant is better.
25k kinda sounds like a steal. That said, I don't really have the money. I'm going to build a loader for my Cub Cadet 149 instead hopefully. Should be fun. Can't beat a 4WD loader machine though, really nice to have that front wheel traction I'm sure when loading the bucket.
Tim Christi thanks would never hsve seen one work most places only talk to job site managers
God Bless
PaK
Hi Tim and Christy nice machine but i dont think the compact tractor will become Obsolete anytime soon
Could be very use full to a small logging operation
Thanks for bringing the GIE to us. I couldn't attend I had to work even if org was only 1 hour away. . At least we get to see some of it. Thank you.
I do tree work. It looks awesome for that!
Hi Tim , nice video . I have the 420 model with a Kubota diesel, awesome machine , one of the best things I have ever bought for tree work !
I'm looking at a 423 model.. just depends on financing or waiting a few months
What size was the one in the video?
Nice machine tim ,you can pick up trees in every angel and with a grapple only in one position
Very nice machine.
my dream loader
Looks like it was a lot of fun🤠
What I’d like to know is how you think this would compare to the new bobcat version of this. Seems like 20k (give or take a few bob) is much better priced to the Bobcat version and more in line with the Ventrac! How would you compare it to Vinny
where did you see $20k? I thought I heard that the Avant was much more expensive than that.
I could see some places where this type of machine could have some advantages, but I can not see it replacing compact tractors. The wide versatility of the compact tractor of a wide variety of implements will keep it has a solid option in the market in my opinion.
I have been a lucky owner of Avant for some years now. It is surprisingly flexible, and has most attachments you can ever think about, and some more 🙂 have a look at some attachments here avantequipment.com/attachment_category/all-attachments/
You need to get one tim
we have a dealer near us for avant in the uk they dell a few but I think what holds people back is the license laws to operate one whitch you have to consider
wow. Glad we don't live in Europe!
Great video!
Great for commercial beekeeping
I don't know if you are aware of it, but one of the many attachments for
the Avant is a Beehive Mover! See th-cam.com/video/gu6yLkhcTPA/w-d-xo.html
A larger version would be nice for professional loggers, but that one seem to be too small for work in the forest for logging. I worked on the adverse terrain forklifts while in the Air Force and we had to use them to move cargo which could not be moved with a regular forklift and they was more practical for the work we used them for and also for work in the forest by loggers.
Professional loggers probably have little use for hauling around one log. They already use Clambunk skidders which can haul around 20-times the number of logs.
Take a look at the 700 og 800 series. Lift capacity up to 2.000 kg.
Tree guy near me has one. We had abig storm 2 years ago here took the trailer up and he loaded it 3 or 4 times with an Avant loader. Worked fantastically well, he was very gentle with my trailer and fast. Compared to a compact tractor there was a major speed difference as he traveled between the pile and my trailer. faster than I could run. With the little Deere I ran it would have been bunny hopping at that speed.
Tim, have you tried the Steiner version like the Ventrac to see if there is much difference other than being solid red?
Have not tried a Steiner.
So was there any comments from the representative staff after your testing? Since you did raise their eyebrows a bit did they just let you go about your business.
No, they didn't say a word!
Very interesting but too niché of a machine. No rear three point hitch and pto. A single boom arm well outfitted with hydraulics but, does it have additional implement options beside (auger, grapple...)?
It is not to be compared with compact tractors, very different market for these.
Better for loading, handling and for attachments that require hydraulic flow.
These machines are very common in Northern Europe for landscaping and snow removal etc. We practically have no compact tractors here, so very different point of view. Avant and other mini loaders also count on the variety of tools, they are just like Swiss Army Knives.
over 100 attachments. Why is a rear 3 point hitch needed? Everything available on the front.
@@TractorTimewithTim hi Tim. I guess I was under the impression this video was to imply this would be a direct competitor to a subcompact tractor as opposed to an addition to a fleet of toys. You know all too well the desire to use two implements like front loader with a heavy hitch to move trailers, or rear tiller / box blade. On its own it is interesting but surely not a direct competitor to the subcompact tractor segment.
Ok, I see your perspective. ...and yes, I like to use 2 attachments at once.
My perspective was different. Not a 'direct competitor' in the sense of running the same exact attachments, but rather achieving all the same goals.
Just topic for discusion. I'm not sure myself. This is the closest I've see yet.
@@TractorTimewithTim
Just order it with rear implement attachment frame. Don`t conclude before you know what is availible.
There is one tractor being made in Italy I believe that is a nice high speed capable backhoe.
There are several italian tractors. Antonio Cararro is among them.
Where they diesel powered tim ?
yes.
I'd look at one only if the lift capacity is over 2 tons with fork carriage.
Go for the 700 or 800 series. they do the lifting.
The 860i lifts 2.000 kg on a pallet.
that machine looks limited. Great at what is does, but it has its limitations. Keep Johnny!
Name some limitations. Seems quite flexible to me.
@@TractorTimewithTim I spent a couple of hours coming up with an answer, some of it driving Multione F25.
I think these machines would not work that well for hilling potatoes or other tasks requiring higher ground clearance. Compact tractor aren't, to my knowledge, that much higher but that small difference might be all that's needed.
Yes, row crops probably not good for these. Good point.
Ok Tim , I’m going to get off topic here referring to your video I’m watching now. Cool looking machine but can you put a plow on it?🤣
Since I hit the send button to quickly here goes. I just watched a video from someone who said it was not financially fiscal to purchase a backhoe for your compact tractor. My dilemma is I have an old farm and I want to dig more water lines septic tank and a shop foundation. The problem I have is I’m on the road a lot and generally don’t have full weekends to go rent a machine then get it back to the rental place before Monday’s work day. I was just kind of looking for your opinion on this subject since you have a backhoe all ready.
I can't remember for sure...do you have a 1025R?
Be careful how you interpret the other video. He may have meant something much more limited.
It usually doesn't make sense to ADD a backhoe to a compact tractor AFTER the sale. Usually you have to pay full price for the backhoe, rather than a discounted price when included with the tractor. So, lots of folks simply trade their 1025r for a new 1025r with backhoe rather than add the backhoe. New warranty, new zero percent financing, etc.
Now, as for the overall value of the backhoe, I think it is incredibly valuable. Like you, I hate renting stuff. I don't want to work a 15 hour day, or 40 hour weekend to get my task done. Rather, I want to do it on my own time.
So, even if cheaper to rent, I try to avoid it.
Does this make sense?
@@roberthenrymatthis I believe you watched Tractor Mike's video and the point I got from it was: if one uses backhoe very rarely, like once or twice a year, it's probably worth it to rent rather than buy.
Well, I just disagree with Mike on this.
i like the multi-one over the avant. not sure if that one has surfaced in the usa yet
interesting. Why?
Multi-one had a booth with several machines at GIE. I believe there is some connections between them and Avant in the past.
No way I would pay anywhere near 25,000 for this
I'd pay 25k for one that lifts over 1500 lbs easily. Way more manuverable then a compact tractor
@@andrewstratton806 it actually lifts 1.000 kg (2.200 lbs)
Like the concept for sure, but our land can be wet at times and wonder how these would be in the mud??
The machine that is being demo'd in the video is equipped with turf tyres, but tractor tyres are very often fitted which will increase traction.
Drive is to all four wheels, with each wheel having its own hydraulic motor. However, to allow the Avant to steer with minimal damage to the surface, the wheels are normally free to rotate at different speeds, and wheel slip can easily happen in mud or if one gets suspended in the air.
To increase traction, a lock valve is fitted to the hydraulic drive lines as standard, and this can be switched on by the operator when slippage of diagonally-opposite wheels occurs.
Even when the lock valve is engaged, the same-side wheels may slip (eg front left and back left). An optional Anti-Slip Valve can also be fitted elsewhere to the drive lines, and when the operator switches *that* on, traction is improved even more. This will prevent same-side wheels spinning, giving the best traction possible.
See th-cam.com/video/Y3_fY5g0T2c/w-d-xo.html for an explanation.
I am in the UK and use an Avant 520 equipped with tractor tyres in hilly fields to tow a paddock vacuum or a flail mower. Like any machine, an Avant can get bogged down in muddy ground, or the wheels can slip on wet slopes. I have got it stuck a few times, but the telescopic boom is very useful when trying to extract the machine, and I have only had to tow it out once.
I find it a very versatile machine, and would highly recommend it. It is particularly useful when its small turning circle, narrow width and low height allow it to get into places where larger machines cannot go. The huge range of attachments allow it to perform a multitude of tasks.
@@JSaundersTube Hi Forrest, thanks for the great answer back. I can only hope we can find an opportunity to try one. My question/thought came from the similarities to a wheeled skid-steer, which isn't any good in the mud. Take care.
th-cam.com/video/ww-66AvvXNY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/O3vxNDUPhOU/w-d-xo.html
Thank God. I asked you to take a look at the Avant over a year ago. Dealer nearby you.
I would love you to take home and test one out especially with the bagging mower attachment.
They have about a hundred other attachments you could also get. Would like to see all used in a real world environment.
They are very tip over resistant also and very good in mud.
Seems like a ventrac but with much more reach and height with forks
Can get with a Cab with AC and Heat.
I liked the Bobcat tool cart better only because it holds two people.
Please do a more extensive review
These things don't look very stable. How will the function on a grade?
Won’t know unless/until we get one to put it through some testing.
th-cam.com/video/TtRbesXXdfQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/6dSY5YNf_dY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/ocgl8Kq59Zk/w-d-xo.html
by far the most stable articulated loader on the market.
I drove one if those too. One with a Harley rake and glass cab.