This is the best and most concise, well put together video from any pinball TH-camr I've seen to date. Thank you for your hard work and please keep making videos! :)
A very honest passionate review of where Pinball has gone in the past 10 years. Exactly what us owners are thinking and need to look out for. Thank you for your good work on this clip.
Thanks for the great video! I live in the USA and have been debating over a newer stern game. Thank goodness i came across this video! I would have gotten a machine and would have been a bit shell shocked on repairs. I just didn't realize it would be so much to repair some simple problems. I think i will wisely look for an older machine first and move my way up. thank you so much for the video! It helped explain a lot to me!
Hey Anthony, it's been 3 years, so maybe not relevant. But I wouldn't let this video keep you from buying new Stern machines because of repair costs. I've owned many modern Sterns and never had any significant repair issues. For the most part, a home owner will be unlikely to encounter many board issues. Now there are other concerns with pf clear coats and the like, but actual pinball board problems are rare.
Im assuming you have the acdc luci pinball in your collection ,? Judging by ya name sake. LOL.Im thinking of buying the stern luci ac/dc vault edition. But now rethinking that after watching this. They cutting too many corners
Well to be fair, the creator of this video was caught importing Stern machines in violation of Stern's policies. He was slapped down, and so he's not necessarily completely neutral. Just fyi.
Viewer from Sweden. Recently opened up eyes to pinball. Love your video! Honest! Constructive! Experienced! Repeatadly consequent, and on the buyers side. Wow if there only could be more people making reviews like this! Great job!
Hello Tommy in Sweden and thank you, I'm a pinball buyer too. I think we need more knowledgeable people from every industry to share their experience and honest thoughts be they positive or negative. I certainly like to know if the quality and value for money is there when I buy something!
From someone who has always been a fan of the game but is now just getting interested in purchasing a machine, this video was very educational and produced very well. Thank you for your hard work.
Great video 👍 more connections more issues but connections are improved. Replacement of bulbs was easy back then twist and plug but now we need a butane hot air solder iron to replace bad LEDs. Stern and other companies are following this method because it's cheaper and more reliable. I like to see updated video this year.
What I find Ironic is that with the increase of value of old pinball machines these day's. I started to think. Well if a second hand awesome pinball can cost up to 5.000 euro's what is 20 years old. It is smarter to save up more money and buy a brand new one. That way you have a machine with less problems when you purchase it now and in the future. NOT. it seems after watching this video. I don't know if Stern is a private company or is recently owned by company stock owners. Because that would explain why they became a worst company. Thank you for making this video. The knowledge that you give to us non experts is truly valuable and very much appreciated.
I can see from your mannerisms that you eat and breathe your trade and I have the upmost respect for you. I recently told my son, who’s mother is a doctor and who’s father is not, to do whatever it is in life that makes you the happiest. Also, be the best at what you do and always strive to do better and never become complacent. I’m going to own a pinball table soon but it’s a shame that I’m in Kentucky and not a bit closer because you are the man I would have working on my table, good job.
This is an excellent video with well-articulated concerns. That being said, something important to keep in mind is that while many of these changes are inconvenient to owners and operator, these and previous cost-saving measures are likely one of the reasons we have new pinball machines to discuss at all. Let's not forget about the great pinball crash that took out everyone but Stern. Of course now, the market is becoming somewhat competitive again, with Jersey Jack, Spooky and others entering the fray. Perhaps the increased competition will cause Stern to step up.
Late to the game but thanks for the vid! My family was in the coin op business so I have been playing Pinball for almost 50 years. I stopped seeking new games when Williams went out of business. I am lucky that we have a place in Lyons Colorado US that has a ton of decent machines and whenever I get to Vegas I head over to the Pinball Hall Of Fame to get some time on old EM machines and classic Williams tables. The first machine I owned was an old Williams Lady Luck EM machine.. Nice to see someone still spreading the love.. Gave you a like and sub..
He said the Best way to Keep everything clean is with " Extra Hold Haispray " Wonder if it really works ? I guess it keeps it from corrosion and protects it for SPIKE Systems. Works wonders on mine , Just bought a New Premium Ghost Busters Love the Vidoes keep it up !
Thank you Mark for your objective review. My timing for discovering your video couldn't have been worse. Later this week, I will be taking delivery of a new "Munsters" pinball machine. Oh well, I will just have to cross my fingers and see how it holds up. Because this is my first Stern machine, I very much appreciated seeing how the back-box and coin doors are latched. So I benefited from seeing your video anyway.
This is an excellent video! At the SFGE show, one of the vendors was pushing the new Stern stuff hard. A couple of machines were experiencing issues with the node boards, having been taken out of the box new at the start of the show. I'll keep my late 80s and 90s WMS games, though I really would like a TNA from Spooky. Great game, and very supportive maker.
Great info. As someone considering purchasing a pin ball machine, this was extremely informative. I feel equipped to go to my local (Chicago, IL USA) supplier and talk intelligently about the various components and manufacturer revisions.
Based on what you read from the marketing, it sounds like their intent is for the machine to be fully serviceable by someone that is essentially unskilled, so a module might be more expensive, but you’re not paying a a skilled technician to come out, track down the problem and replace a discrete component. So, is it cheaper to spend $200 on a part you can replace yourself, or $5 on a part plus $200 for a skilled technician to come out and service the machine.
Well said. Agree with most except code updates, mainly the updates are to add more modes and fix bugs that were in gaming code at release. Best example - BM66. Every code update added more modes and balanced scoring! A top 10 pin now.
Is easy to hate on Stern for looking to cut their costs and make more profit, but at least they are still in business and making machines in an industry dominated by out of business manufacturers.
Thank you for these honest and insightful notes. Long time Iron Maiden fan close to afford, put up and hopefully being able to pay for maintainance of my first pinball machine. Do you (or does anyone) have any information about reliability and issues of the IM Pinball yet? Are there technical differences, up- or downgrades to their previous machines? Love the design, song choices and gameplay though...Saving up for an IM Pro, but maybe I am better off with buying an fun Williams sys11 pinball classic in playable condition first, as repair or servicing seems much more manageable and affordable.
Sadly for pinball fans, Stern have continued there cost cutting, their reliability has not improved and the quality has declined. In my opinion you'd be much better off buying another brand or a used game with a better track record. Don't buy a brand that will cost you alot of money in repairs from either frequent faults and/or very expensive parts prices.
This was a very informative video. I'm not entirely sure I was in the market for one of these, but I will now give it some hard thought should one present itself. Sticking with 80s/90s machines seems like it will not only save money, but be more fun as well.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you found it helpful. If you enjoy more complex and sophisticated games many 80 and 90's Pinballs are a safe and wise option. They have a well established history and the parts and repair costs are significantly less. Also some of the most popular games ever made were in the 90's and most have excellent resale value.
Thanks for the video. I am, or possibly was, searching for another new pinball for my game room. I really learned a lot from your video and I will limit my selection to the Stern games with a SAM system.
Man! What are they thinking! What a killer video. Can you believe they moved the on switch! I have no desire to own a pinball machine that I can't change a bulb in and have to buy a complete new board. That makes absolutely no sense. Making boards that are not interchangeable really makes it impossible to keep a game going in an arcade. It looks like Stern needs to go back to the drawing board if they are going to stick around. Thanks for the video. Very nice!
how can u rebuild the lightening in side the games ?? LCDs are solded directly on the boards?! WOW! I’m stunned! I certainly didn’t expect to see that from Stern.
Interesting to learn about all of this. I don't really blame them for trying to lower costs, because they are so expensive to make, but they probably went too far in some areas.
What are your thoughts on Bally made pinballs and others? Very informative video and very surprising. It certainly has me exercising caution moving forward with any Stern pinball.
Thanks for the breakdown on the different Stern systems. I met Gary Stern several times at different pinball conferences in 2013, and I can remember when he would say that they would never make an original machine, it would all be based on movies, TV shows, bands etc. I now see that Steve Ritchie has at least got them started on continuing some of his best work namely Black Night Sword of Rage, this is a good direction but not totally original. I am wondering if Jersey Jack Pinball machines suffer from the same problems as the SPIKE system does since they are very multimedia oriented. Maybe do a video on these machines as well? I honestly believe that Stern would still be on Dot Matrix displays if it was not for the success of JJP's The Wizard of Oz. Gary Stern did not seem to be open to newer designs Like the William's Pinball 2000 system, and its partially understandable since at that time I think SAM had been around since 2006 and SPIKE was being designed and released 2 years later.
Awesome video, very informative, glad there's some honesty about these machines especially as most retail at around £8000 you want to know the pro's and con's.
"Pinball knowledge is power". A very good summary of the differences and concerns. This is not some type of "technician conspiracy" Stern is causing their own problems by letting the investor council control the production of game with "short term profit methodology". This topic has been in discussion for over two and half years by technicians, operators, and long time pinball collectors, yet some still don't have the information or a firm understanding of the cost savings measures (albeit increasing MSRP prices anyway) that have been implemented while severely impacting future serviceability of games. One of the most significant errors on Stern PC SMD boards is that Stern removed necessary fuse voltage overload protection on SPIKE games, which is aberrant from the standpoint of either as an operator or private owner. It just is not there, and the overload protection does not always engage, causing main board damage. This essentially delineates that Stern pinball games should no longer be classified as commercial devices, but rather consumer electronics. This is exceptionally evident based on removal of release of the schematics of the boards or even a proper manual (pdf or paper) provided with games since 2015. This is a standard akin that is not a standard in commercial electronics, but rather once again consumer devices that are not designed to be directly repaired by an end user. This video showcases what some distributors don't like to talk about to new potential buyers, because it would hurt their sales. I hope Stern recognizes that the boycotts against their game, quality of construction, and loss of features for continued increasing MSRPs are going, and when the latest pinball interest fades, their company may once again be at the verge of failure.
Thanks for this. I was looking at a Jurassic Park Pro, now I'm having second thoughts. Is there a list somewhere of Stern SAM games? Or is it ever game produced by Stern prior to 2015?
A really nice and Stern (couldn't help myself with that pun) video on the new Stern tables. It kinda scares me from buying a new Stern table. I think I might have to look for an older table from the 90's and before.
You Sir, Bring a level of professionalism and high calibre to this industry then I have seen elsewhere. I absolutely love your communication style it’s very good, I just can’t help think about old “employee orientation” or safety instruction videos when I hear the cadence and voice patterns you use though! LOL
Thank you so much for this video. You have touched on every concern I have about my home use only Stern game. I have been owning pinball machines off an on for 20 years. I recently bought a Ghosbuster Pro NIB. It is the only game I have ever bought NIB. The Spike system has given me great concern. What happens in five years if a node goes bad? I assume I could buy one and put a new board in, update the code, and voila working game. I did not know that two Spike boards that have basically identical functions might not be interchangeable (as you noted at 7:37) between games. This is awful! How hard would have been for Stern to make a modular system that is common to all games? I get there are custom components to every game but the overall underlying driver technology could be standardized across all games thus making node boards interchangeable and less expensive. Should I buy, and stock, a replacement for every node board in my particular game? I may just start doing that. I totally agree on the replacing LED bulbs. Through hole LEDs could be changed with relative ease for a home user as opposed to surface mount LEDs. Replaceable LED bulbs in sockets would be the best and easiest overall. But at least through hole LEDs can be replaced by a novice who is good at basic desoldering/soldering. The lock down bar latches are annoying. Seems backwards compared to a single lever. It is an awkward hand movement to simply lock the bar down. I agree on power switch location. It took me 30 minutes to figure out how to turn on my game! I was so used to the power on switch on the bottom of the cabinet it never occurred to me to look at the manual just to turn on the game. Although minor annoyance compared to the Spike Node and LED replacement issues, it is still a head scratcher on why it was moved in the first place. A lot of these concerns are also about maintenance being time consuming. When a person has games at home, the time it takes to replace components is less troubling. When an operator has many games on a route, well, as they say, time is money. If a repair that should normally take five minutes, takes 45 minutes, then that is lost money as well as time. Something as simple as an LED bulb replacement should take a few minutes, not a board replacement and 45 minutes worth of labor. Didn't mean to go on about my game this long but thank you for, unfortunately, verifying my "concerns" about maintenance and upkeep of this game. I love it. Despite all of its air-balls and misaligned shots. I hope to keep for a long time, but the maintenance and upkeep does scare me a bit. Cheers. Ron
I thought new sterns where good but when I was playing a new machine and ended up breaking it from just playing it normally has made me second think their build quality this video as definitely backed up my thinking
Amazing video with great info about a disappointing common trend nowadays. As a renovator of Williams WPC machines, able to do board repairs for pennies, I am glad I have nothing to do with these new Stern games. WPC forever !
I'd like to have more that just a look at Jersey Jack pinball first. I have not had much experience with them to date but more are coming into Australia and we will see them more often in future.
An interesting question and suggestion. I haven't had much experience with Virtual pinballs. My focus is on real pinballs, I see virtual pinballs as video games. They certainly do have following and they offer people a good idea of what playing pinball is like. I think they are good advertising for pinball and tempt players to try the real thing.
Great video. I’ve been in the hobby for while and was thinking of buying a NIB Metallica or Iron Maiden. I’m still in the fence but I think I’d be annoyed with the unserviceable nature of the Spike System which Iron Maiden has. Maybe I’ll just sell my current games (90’s and back) and just put my money where it belongs, the bank.
Hey Mark, nice video with loads of useful information. That was fair dinkum, mate! *thumbs up* ;-) Hopefully Stern did watch or will watch it, too. Have a nice time down under. --Thank goodness I am not using social media!
This is really well done and a good evaluation. I was going to buy a new Stern Star Wars machine but not now. I can't get my arms around having to replace a board for a chip or transistor and especially not for a light. The disposable nature of these things seemingly make them them less collectible going forward. No thanks!
Thanks for the feedback and yes, I agree completely. Stern pinballs have continued on this cost cutting, disposable path even more in the last 2 years!
Just bought a Star Wars Pro, then saw this very well made video. I haven't bought a new game in ages and was concerned when I saw all the PCBs attached to the playfield. I was impressed with the game initially and was thinking of getting a few more. Not now though. Hopefully, my game will survive long enough to be worthwhile. I might move it on before too many components start falling off the PCBs though.
great video. I was planning to buy a new stern pinball machine this year but I am having doubts. In your opinion, what company makes better quality pinball machines (new)?
Good question, I've been asked this alot since doing this show and while I continue to keep an eye on new Stern pinballs, I've also been looking at other pinball manufacturers. As of late Feb 2018 there isn't one new pinball I would buy with confidence BUT there are some new manufacturers that look quite promising, I just haven't had sufficient time or opportunity to decisively trial and evaluate some of them. When I say promising I mean manufacturers offering good to high quality built games at a purchase price reflecting the overall build quality, serviceability and reliability. Actual game play is not a key part of my quality/price assessment, a games play appeal is for individual players to decide. I'll certainly do a show about new pinball machine manufacturers when I have something more solid to say.
The Chicago Gaming Planetary pinball brand has made 2 remakes of late 1990's Williams games. Externally each game appears almost identical to the original BUT INTERNALLY they are VERY DIFFERENT to the originals. They don't use Williams original electronic design nor do they use Sterns current electronic hardware although they do have a very similar disposable platform to Sterns which may be very expensive to replace when faults occur. Due to the rather low volume of sales and circulation, Planetary pinballs reliability is undetermined. Having said that I strongly suggest buyers check replacement electronics prices before purchasing and get those prices in writing!.
Great insight on the product. I was considering the new Ninja Turtle Pinball, not anymore. What's your thought son Star Trek 2013 production & Tron 2011. Am I best to invest in those? Moe
The overall build quality of Jersey Jack games is pretty good. As for Pirates of the Caribbean, I wont comment on the game play just the actual build quality. Pirates and other Jersey Jack games are certainly better quality and built to a higher standard than any new Sterns games made in 2018 or so far in 2019. Jersey Jacks overall quality seems to be consistent while Sterns quality continues to decline.
Yes, many owners will need a technician to determine the cause of a fault, and when a new node board is needed it automatically becomes very expensive.
Yeah I had the transistors checked and they were all fine. Very frustrating. It was extremely easy to switch the board but I'd much sooner it be repairable. Very difficult when Stern don't release the schematics
Thanks for a great analysis. I am very worried about servicing my Sterns when connectors start to cause problems or just simply replacing a surface mounted part. I disagree with your point about the LCD being cheaper. It might cost less than a DMD, but the content (graphics) that must go onto it costs a hell of a lot more - it is like making a small video game. I suspect this is why prices have gone up when Spike should be cheaper. If I had a choice I would rather have a DMD and pay $500-1000 less for my machine. As Gomez says, the game is under the glass.
The difficulty and cost to service Spike games is a valid, serious concern. Creating LCD graphics can be costly depending on the detail, length of time and sophistication although Sterns LCD graphics don't seem very elaborate. Most graphics you see are sampled from established TV or Movie footage. The cost to create LCD graphics is quite small (well under $100 per game) when you consider the total cost is spread over the production of a few thousand games.
He said the Best way to Keep everything clean is with " Extra Hold Haispray " Wonder if it really works ? I guess it keeps it from corrosion and protects it for SPIKE Systems. Works wonders on mine , Just bought a New Premium Ghost Busters Love the Vidoes keep it up ! SECOND: THE IDEA BEHIND "SPIKE" IS TO BUY THE PART(S) JUST LIKE A CAR DEALERSHIP. Its all about marketing branding and Product Control.
I have been in the slot machine business for 21 years. We moved from a single main processor unit (MPU) to a distributed system with inter-board cable links. Yes it was cheaper but it created nightmares for service. Tracking down errors was much harder, and replacing one board took 2 minutes, where as replacing 7 could take an hour. It was a nightmare. The company went bust about 8 years later...
There aren't many on the Market and for good reason, these remakes look the same outside from a players perspective but internally they are nothing like the originals, they are made very cheaply with similar electronics to Sterns disposable Spike system. In my opinion they are overpriced, low quality remakes, a definite don't buy.
Gotta call a little BS on this video. Those surface mount LEDs on the Spike system are super easy to replace if you can do basic soldering. Maybe its time to upgrade your skill set. Soldering is not hard, I taught myself.
This is the best and most concise, well put together video from any pinball TH-camr I've seen to date. Thank you for your hard work and please keep making videos! :)
A very honest passionate review of where Pinball has gone in the past 10 years. Exactly what us owners are thinking and need to look out for. Thank you for your good work on this clip.
Thanks, It's important people know what they are buying before the actual purchase.
Thanks for the great video! I live in the USA and have been debating over a newer stern game. Thank goodness i came across this video! I would have gotten a machine and would have been a bit shell shocked on repairs. I just didn't realize it would be so much to repair some simple problems. I think i will wisely look for an older machine first and move my way up. thank you so much for the video! It helped explain a lot to me!
I am glad you found it helpful. Thanks for the message, Mark.
Hey Anthony, it's been 3 years, so maybe not relevant. But I wouldn't let this video keep you from buying new Stern machines because of repair costs. I've owned many modern Sterns and never had any significant repair issues. For the most part, a home owner will be unlikely to encounter many board issues. Now there are other concerns with pf clear coats and the like, but actual pinball board problems are rare.
I'm glad to see an honest review of new generation pinball machines. Maybe the only honest review I have seen in a very long time
Thanks
Im assuming you have the acdc luci pinball in your collection ,? Judging by ya name sake. LOL.Im thinking of buying the stern luci ac/dc vault edition. But now rethinking that after watching this. They cutting too many corners
Well to be fair, the creator of this video was caught importing Stern machines in violation of Stern's policies. He was slapped down, and so he's not necessarily completely neutral. Just fyi.
Viewer from Sweden. Recently opened up eyes to pinball. Love your video! Honest! Constructive! Experienced! Repeatadly consequent, and on the buyers side. Wow if there only could be more people making reviews like this! Great job!
Hello Tommy in Sweden and thank you, I'm a pinball buyer too. I think we need more knowledgeable people from every industry to share their experience and honest thoughts be they positive or negative. I certainly like to know if the quality and value for money is there when I buy something!
From someone who has always been a fan of the game but is now just getting interested in purchasing a machine, this video was very educational and produced very well. Thank you for your hard work.
Thankyou, I'm glad you found helpful.
Great video 👍 more connections more issues but connections are improved. Replacement of bulbs was easy back then twist and plug but now we need a butane hot air solder iron to replace bad LEDs. Stern and other companies are following this method because it's cheaper and more reliable. I like to see updated video this year.
What I find Ironic is that with the increase of value of old pinball machines these day's. I started to think. Well if a second hand awesome pinball can cost up to 5.000 euro's what is 20 years old. It is smarter to save up more money and buy a brand new one. That way you have a machine with less problems when you purchase it now and in the future. NOT. it seems after watching this video. I don't know if Stern is a private company or is recently owned by company stock owners. Because that would explain why they became a worst company. Thank you for making this video. The knowledge that you give to us non experts is truly valuable and very much appreciated.
Thank you, I am glad you found it informative.
I can see from your mannerisms that you eat and breathe your trade and I have the upmost respect for you. I recently told my son, who’s mother is a doctor and who’s father is not, to do whatever it is in life that makes you the happiest. Also, be the best at what you do and always strive to do better and never become complacent. I’m going to own a pinball table soon but it’s a shame that I’m in Kentucky and not a bit closer because you are the man I would have working on my table, good job.
High praise indeed & good advise for your son, thank you for the compliment and feedback.
What a lucid and thorough video, Mark. Subscribed.
That is one of the best pinball vids ever made. Thank You!
This is an excellent video with well-articulated concerns. That being said, something important to keep in mind is that while many of these changes are inconvenient to owners and operator, these and previous cost-saving measures are likely one of the reasons we have new pinball machines to discuss at all. Let's not forget about the great pinball crash that took out everyone but Stern. Of course now, the market is becoming somewhat competitive again, with Jersey Jack, Spooky and others entering the fray. Perhaps the increased competition will cause Stern to step up.
Late to the game but thanks for the vid! My family was in the coin op business so I have been playing Pinball for almost 50 years. I stopped seeking new games when Williams went out of business. I am lucky that we have a place in Lyons Colorado US that has a ton of decent machines and whenever I get to Vegas I head over to the Pinball Hall Of Fame to get some time on old EM machines and classic Williams tables. The first machine I owned was an old Williams Lady Luck EM machine.. Nice to see someone still spreading the love.. Gave you a like and sub..
That was a very informative video. Todd Tuckey of TNT told me about it. Glad I watched it. ^_^ Thank you for the information sir.
He said the Best way to Keep everything clean is with " Extra Hold Haispray " Wonder if it really works ? I guess it keeps it from corrosion and protects it for SPIKE Systems. Works wonders on mine , Just bought a New Premium Ghost Busters Love the Vidoes keep it up !
Great information - Thanks for taking the time to provide such a helpful insight into Stern's SPIKE system.
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for watching and for your feedback.
Wow! Thanks for the incredibly well organized and comprehensive review of the spike system. Fantastic video!
Thank you Mark for your objective review. My timing for discovering your video couldn't have been worse. Later this week, I will be taking delivery of a new "Munsters" pinball machine. Oh well, I will just have to cross my fingers and see how it holds up. Because this is my first Stern machine, I very much appreciated seeing how the back-box and coin doors are latched. So I benefited from seeing your video anyway.
This is an excellent video! At the SFGE show, one of the vendors was pushing the new Stern stuff hard. A couple of machines were experiencing issues with the node boards, having been taken out of the box new at the start of the show. I'll keep my late 80s and 90s WMS games, though I really would like a TNA from Spooky. Great game, and very supportive maker.
(16:45). You said it!!! So much cost-cutting, yet the price is higher.
Great info. As someone considering purchasing a pin ball machine, this was extremely informative. I feel equipped to go to my local (Chicago, IL USA) supplier and talk intelligently about the various components and manufacturer revisions.
Would love to hear your insights on Jersey Jack pinball machines.
I'll be doing shows about Jersey Jack and other brands.
Based on what you read from the marketing, it sounds like their intent is for the machine to be fully serviceable by someone that is essentially unskilled, so a module might be more expensive, but you’re not paying a a skilled technician to come out, track down the problem and replace a discrete component. So, is it cheaper to spend $200 on a part you can replace yourself, or $5 on a part plus $200 for a skilled technician to come out and service the machine.
When I retire and start looking at buying a few pinball machines, I will definitely consider what Mark has to say. Bravo for calling out Stern.
Thank you very much, that's what I am trying to do, encourage people to consider what to buy based on facts.
WOW thank you for being so honest AND RESPECTFUL. you def are someone who has major knowledge on these machines. thank yee
Well said.
Agree with most except code updates, mainly the updates are to add more modes and fix bugs that were in gaming code at release.
Best example - BM66. Every code update added more modes and balanced scoring! A top 10 pin now.
Very informative video and clearly thought out. Thank you
Nice to see a mature professional comparison of something on youtube. Watched the whole video and I don't even own a pin yet.
Thank you very much. It's so important buyers have access the clear and concise facts to make informed decisions about what they buy.
Is easy to hate on Stern for looking to cut their costs and make more profit, but at least they are still in business and making machines in an industry dominated by out of business manufacturers.
I disagree, I'd rather have no pinball manufacturers if the alternative was only low quality new games.
Thank you for these honest and insightful notes. Long time Iron Maiden fan close to afford, put up and hopefully being able to pay for maintainance of my first pinball machine. Do you (or does anyone) have any information about reliability and issues of the IM Pinball yet? Are there technical differences, up- or downgrades to their previous machines? Love the design, song choices and gameplay though...Saving up for an IM Pro, but maybe I am better off with buying an fun Williams sys11 pinball classic in playable condition first, as repair or servicing seems much more manageable and affordable.
Sadly for pinball fans, Stern have continued there cost cutting, their reliability has not improved and the quality has declined. In my opinion you'd be much better off buying another brand or a used game with a better track record. Don't buy a brand that will cost you alot of money in repairs from either frequent faults and/or very expensive parts prices.
This was a very informative video. I'm not entirely sure I was in the market for one of these, but I will now give it some hard thought should one present itself. Sticking with 80s/90s machines seems like it will not only save money, but be more fun as well.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you found it helpful. If you enjoy more complex and sophisticated games many 80 and 90's Pinballs are a safe and wise option. They have a well established history and the parts and repair costs are significantly less. Also some of the most popular games ever made were in the 90's and most have excellent resale value.
EXCELLENT video and spot on! Thank you!!
Thanks Mark certainly will call if I need a hand with mine. Very informative
You can just about hear, a sub tone of contempt for Sterns new Spike system. Mark sounds very informed, and weary!. Thanks for telling us how it is.
How old are you sir? I´m a 42 years old human from Sweden, and this is gold to me! It reminds me of my childhood..
Mid 50's. glad you enjoyed the shows.
@@PinballExpert Enjoyed?! I LOVE it!
Thanks for the video. I am, or possibly was, searching for another new pinball for my game room. I really learned a lot from your video and I will limit my selection to the Stern games with a SAM system.
That's a very wise plan.
Man! What are they thinking! What a killer video. Can you believe they moved the on switch! I have no desire to own a pinball machine that I can't change a bulb in and have to buy a complete new board. That makes absolutely no sense. Making boards that are not interchangeable really makes it impossible to keep a game going in an arcade. It looks like Stern needs to go back to the drawing board if they are going to stick around. Thanks for the video. Very nice!
how can u rebuild the lightening in side the games ?? LCDs are solded directly on the boards?! WOW! I’m stunned! I certainly didn’t expect to see that from Stern.
Interesting to learn about all of this. I don't really blame them for trying to lower costs, because they are so expensive to make, but they probably went too far in some areas.
Great video. I subscribed since you are in fact a pinball professional. Keep the great informative videos coming sir !!!!
What are your thoughts on Bally made pinballs and others? Very informative video and very surprising. It certainly has me exercising caution moving forward with any Stern pinball.
What is your opinion on Jersey Jack pins?
I think Jersey Jack Pinballs are quite reliable and pretty well made, they aren't perfect but they're much better quality than new Stern pinballs.
Excellent summary and visuals.
Thanks for the breakdown on the different Stern systems. I met Gary Stern several times at different pinball conferences in 2013, and I can remember when he would say that they would never make an original machine, it would all be based on movies, TV shows, bands etc. I now see that Steve Ritchie has at least got them started on continuing some of his best work namely Black Night Sword of Rage, this is a good direction but not totally original.
I am wondering if Jersey Jack Pinball machines suffer from the same problems as the SPIKE system does since they are very multimedia oriented. Maybe do a video on these machines as well?
I honestly believe that Stern would still be on Dot Matrix displays if it was not for the success of JJP's The Wizard of Oz. Gary Stern did not seem to be open to newer designs Like the William's Pinball 2000 system, and its partially understandable since at that time I think SAM had been around since 2006 and SPIKE was being designed and released 2 years later.
Wow! Batman 66 was one that I really wanted! I’ll do some more research first now! Thanks!
Any changes to Stern with newer machines 2024? Can you review new machines from other brands?
Thanks for the video, Very helpful as i want to purchase my first pinball machine soon.
You're welcome I'm glad this show was helpful.
Very professional explanations of what is going on at Stern. Thank you for some eyes opening facts and investigations. Thumps up from me! Cheers!
Very informative. Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback.
Awesome video, very informative, glad there's some honesty about these machines especially as most retail at around £8000 you want to know the pro's and con's.
Awesome video! Thanks for the detailed information!!
Great info. Well presented. Thanks, Mark.
"Pinball knowledge is power".
A very good summary of the differences and concerns.
This is not some type of "technician conspiracy" Stern is causing their own problems by letting the investor council control the production of game with "short term profit methodology".
This topic has been in discussion for over two and half years by technicians, operators, and long time pinball collectors, yet some still don't have the information or a firm understanding of the cost savings measures (albeit increasing MSRP prices anyway) that have been implemented while severely impacting future serviceability of games. One of the most significant errors on Stern PC SMD boards is that Stern removed necessary fuse voltage overload protection on SPIKE games, which is aberrant from the standpoint of either as an operator or private owner. It just is not there, and the overload protection does not always engage, causing main board damage. This essentially delineates that Stern pinball games should no longer be classified as commercial devices, but rather consumer electronics. This is exceptionally evident based on removal of release of the schematics of the boards or even a proper manual (pdf or paper) provided with games since 2015. This is a standard akin that is not a standard in commercial electronics, but rather once again consumer devices that are not designed to be directly repaired by an end user.
This video showcases what some distributors don't like to talk about to new potential buyers, because it would hurt their sales. I hope Stern recognizes that the boycotts against their game, quality of construction, and loss of features for continued increasing MSRPs are going, and when the latest pinball interest fades, their company may once again be at the verge of failure.
Thanks for the comment, you've obviously been studying Sterns recent games too.
Thanks for this. I was looking at a Jurassic Park Pro, now I'm having second thoughts. Is there a list somewhere of Stern SAM games? Or is it ever game produced by Stern prior to 2015?
I watched all of your Videos, The Videos are excellent! Thank you for sharing your experience.
Great job Mark. You nailed it!
A really nice and Stern (couldn't help myself with that pun) video on the new Stern tables. It kinda scares me from buying a new Stern table. I think I might have to look for an older table from the 90's and before.
You Sir, Bring a level of professionalism and high calibre to this industry then I have seen elsewhere. I absolutely love your communication style it’s very good, I just can’t help think about old “employee orientation” or safety instruction videos when I hear the cadence and voice patterns you use though! LOL
High praise indeed, thank you very much :-)
Good information to know. I just bought a new Munsters machine.
Good luck with it, I hope you don't have any problems.
Thank you so much for this video. You have touched on every concern I have about my home use only Stern game. I have been owning pinball machines off an on for 20 years. I recently bought a Ghosbuster Pro NIB. It is the only game I have ever bought NIB.
The Spike system has given me great concern. What happens in five years if a node goes bad? I assume I could buy one and put a new board in, update the code, and voila working game. I did not know that two Spike boards that have basically identical functions might not be interchangeable (as you noted at 7:37) between games. This is awful! How hard would have been for Stern to make a modular system that is common to all games? I get there are custom components to every game but the overall underlying driver technology could be standardized across all games thus making node boards interchangeable and less expensive.
Should I buy, and stock, a replacement for every node board in my particular game? I may just start doing that.
I totally agree on the replacing LED bulbs. Through hole LEDs could be changed with relative ease for a home user as opposed to surface mount LEDs. Replaceable LED bulbs in sockets would be the best and easiest overall. But at least through hole LEDs can be replaced by a novice who is good at basic desoldering/soldering.
The lock down bar latches are annoying. Seems backwards compared to a single lever. It is an awkward hand movement to simply lock the bar down.
I agree on power switch location. It took me 30 minutes to figure out how to turn on my game! I was so used to the power on switch on the bottom of the cabinet it never occurred to me to look at the manual just to turn on the game. Although minor annoyance compared to the Spike Node and LED replacement issues, it is still a head scratcher on why it was moved in the first place.
A lot of these concerns are also about maintenance being time consuming. When a person has games at home, the time it takes to replace components is less troubling. When an operator has many games on a route, well, as they say, time is money. If a repair that should normally take five minutes, takes 45 minutes, then that is lost money as well as time. Something as simple as an LED bulb replacement should take a few minutes, not a board replacement and 45 minutes worth of labor.
Didn't mean to go on about my game this long but thank you for, unfortunately, verifying my "concerns" about maintenance and upkeep of this game.
I love it. Despite all of its air-balls and misaligned shots. I hope to keep for a long time, but the maintenance and upkeep does scare me a bit.
Cheers.
Ron
Nice video and fun to watch. Take care now.
Thank you very much.
Wow that lights not being removed is crazy thxs for the info if I do get a pinball machine not going to be with them I loved ghost busters tho
Yes, it certainly is a major hassle to change a failed light.
I thought new sterns where good but when I was playing a new machine and ended up breaking it from just playing it normally has made me second think their build quality this video as definitely backed up my thinking
I've heard of many failures in new Stern pinballs, the drop in quality is a real shame.
Lots of cost saving, yet none passed on to the customer,
@@argiodsilvertongue3589 it would be nice if Stern used all available info to help upgrade and pass on the savings to the customer
Welcome to the 21st century. Where caring about the customer have gone the way of the dodo bird
What’s a dodo bird
Thanks!, well done video, a really serious work.
Greetings from Buenos Aires
Amazing video with great info about a disappointing common trend nowadays. As a renovator of Williams WPC machines, able to do board repairs for pennies, I am glad I have nothing to do with these new Stern games. WPC forever !
great video, mostly agree with you, would like to see a comparison to the jersy jack system, if you have access to one
I'd like to have more that just a look at Jersey Jack pinball first. I have not had much experience with them to date but more are coming into Australia and we will see them more often in future.
Thanks for sharing your insight.
LEDs are solded directly on the boards?! WOW! I’m stunned! I certainly didn’t expect to see that from Stern. 😳
what do you think about virtual pinball cabinets? maybe you can make a video in future?
An interesting question and suggestion. I haven't had much experience with Virtual pinballs. My focus is on real pinballs, I see virtual pinballs as video games. They certainly do have following and they offer people a good idea of what playing pinball is like. I think they are good advertising for pinball and tempt players to try the real thing.
Wow, very good video. I keep learning.
Great video. I’ve been in the hobby for while and was thinking of buying a NIB Metallica or Iron Maiden. I’m still in the fence but I think I’d be annoyed with the unserviceable nature of the Spike System which Iron Maiden has. Maybe I’ll just sell my current games (90’s and back) and just put my money where it belongs, the bank.
Iron Maiden is a fantastic pin
Hey Mark, nice video with loads of useful information. That was fair dinkum, mate! *thumbs up* ;-) Hopefully Stern did watch or will watch it, too. Have a nice time down under. --Thank goodness I am not using social media!
Thank you very much. Yes I know the management at Stern have seen this show.
Agree with everything you said, but the code updating is awesome and easy to do.
This is really well done and a good evaluation. I was going to buy a new Stern Star Wars machine but not now. I can't get my arms around having to replace a board for a chip or transistor and especially not for a light. The disposable nature of these things seemingly make them them less collectible going forward. No thanks!
Thanks for the feedback and yes, I agree completely. Stern pinballs have continued on this cost cutting, disposable path even more in the last 2 years!
Awesome insight Mark. Thanks
Great detail, thanks for doing this.
I'm glad you found it informative, a detailed assessment needed to be done by someone.
the deadpool pinball is coming out mark do you like the playfield
Just bought a Star Wars Pro, then saw this very well made video. I haven't bought a new game in ages and was concerned when I saw all the PCBs attached to the playfield. I was impressed with the game initially and was thinking of getting a few more. Not now though. Hopefully, my game will survive long enough to be worthwhile. I might move it on before too many components start falling off the PCBs though.
very interesting, even for non english native (as me), as you speak slowly and its clear & easy to understand... well done :)
Thanks for your interest and feedback.
I agree! This was a flawless presentation! Excellent! 👍🏻
great video. I was planning to buy a new stern pinball machine this year but I am having doubts. In your opinion, what company makes better quality pinball machines (new)?
Good question, I've been asked this alot since doing this show and while I continue to keep an eye on new Stern pinballs, I've also been looking at other pinball manufacturers. As of late Feb 2018 there isn't one new pinball I would buy with confidence BUT there are some new manufacturers that look quite promising, I just haven't had sufficient time or opportunity to decisively trial and evaluate some of them. When I say promising I mean manufacturers offering good to high quality built games at a purchase price reflecting the overall build quality, serviceability and reliability. Actual game play is not a key part of my quality/price assessment, a games play appeal is for individual players to decide. I'll certainly do a show about new pinball machine manufacturers when I have something more solid to say.
Great video, how does Sterns approach compare to that of Chicago Gaming Company please?
The Chicago Gaming Planetary pinball brand has made 2 remakes of late 1990's Williams games. Externally each game appears almost identical to the original BUT INTERNALLY they are VERY DIFFERENT to the originals. They don't use Williams original electronic design nor do they use Sterns current electronic hardware although they do have a very similar disposable platform to Sterns which may be very expensive to replace when faults occur. Due to the rather low volume of sales and circulation, Planetary pinballs reliability is undetermined. Having said that I strongly suggest buyers check replacement electronics prices before purchasing and get those prices in writing!.
Great insight on the product. I was considering the new Ninja Turtle Pinball, not anymore. What's your thought son Star Trek 2013 production & Tron 2011. Am I best to invest in those? Moe
Great information many thanks
Excellent Info, thanks for this great video.
Thanks for the insights
Thanks for this, how do you rate Jersey Jack Pirates of the Caribbean?
The overall build quality of Jersey Jack games is pretty good. As for Pirates of the Caribbean, I wont comment on the game play just the actual build quality. Pirates and other Jersey Jack games are certainly better quality and built to a higher standard than any new Sterns games made in 2018 or so far in 2019. Jersey Jacks overall quality seems to be consistent while Sterns quality continues to decline.
Brilliant video mate, very informative. I had a node board go on my GB Pro, cost me £258 to repair. Not cool
Yes, many owners will need a technician to determine the cause of a fault, and when a new node board is needed it automatically becomes very expensive.
Yeah I had the transistors checked and they were all fine. Very frustrating. It was extremely easy to switch the board but I'd much sooner it be repairable. Very difficult when Stern don't release the schematics
Thanks for a great analysis. I am very worried about servicing my Sterns when connectors start to cause problems or just simply replacing a surface mounted part. I disagree with your point about the LCD being cheaper. It might cost less than a DMD, but the content (graphics) that must go onto it costs a hell of a lot more - it is like making a small video game. I suspect this is why prices have gone up when Spike should be cheaper. If I had a choice I would rather have a DMD and pay $500-1000 less for my machine. As Gomez says, the game is under the glass.
The difficulty and cost to service Spike games is a valid, serious concern. Creating LCD graphics can be costly depending on the detail, length of time and sophistication although Sterns LCD graphics don't seem very elaborate. Most graphics you see are sampled from established TV or Movie footage. The cost to create LCD graphics is quite small (well under $100 per game) when you consider the total cost is spread over the production of a few thousand games.
WHO makes and sells brand new SAM machines ??? thanks
The SAM system was replaced with the Spike system. No new SAM system games are made anymore by anyone.
does STern have shareholders ? .... if they do then that may explain the corner cutting and greed factors ?
I just want Williams. Because they made my childhood awesome.
They put so much effort into making unique and interesting games back then.
He said the Best way to Keep everything clean is with " Extra Hold Haispray " Wonder if it really works ? I guess it keeps it from corrosion and protects it for SPIKE Systems. Works wonders on mine , Just bought a New Premium Ghost Busters Love the Vidoes keep it up !
SECOND: THE IDEA BEHIND "SPIKE" IS TO BUY THE PART(S) JUST LIKE A CAR DEALERSHIP. Its all about marketing branding and Product Control.
Excellent video. Thanks
What do you think about jersey jack pinballs? They look like they are built better
From a technical point of view I have not worked on many Jersey Jack pinballs so i can't say much about them.
I have been in the slot machine business for 21 years. We moved from a single main processor unit (MPU) to a distributed system with inter-board cable links. Yes it was cheaper but it created nightmares for service. Tracking down errors was much harder, and replacing one board took 2 minutes, where as replacing 7 could take an hour. It was a nightmare. The company went bust about 8 years later...
What are your thoughts on the Chicago Gaming remakes as far as ownership value and reliability?
There aren't many on the Market and for good reason, these remakes look the same outside from a players perspective but internally they are nothing like the originals, they are made very cheaply with similar electronics to Sterns disposable Spike system. In my opinion they are overpriced, low quality remakes, a definite don't buy.
do you back the Melbourne storm mark
Gotta call a little BS on this video. Those surface mount LEDs on the Spike system are super easy to replace if you can do basic soldering. Maybe its time to upgrade your skill set. Soldering is not hard, I taught myself.
What's a prayfield?
Maybe you should do an update on Stern machines?