When scribing a square bar to find the centre, alway turn it over 180 degrees and scribe again…that way you immediately know if it’s in the centre..😉 Excellent video..👍
Working in fractions? I have yet to use fractions while in the machine shop. Once you get to measuring, inspection, machine adjustment, it all becomes decimal. Fractional is either an old drawing that needs converted to decimal or your in construction. In the years ive been in machine shops, ive never worked in fractional except maybe grabbing a fractional drill. It all becomes decimal once on the floor so no need to argue about fractions or metric.
Use a Joe Block to set your Vernier Hight Gage. Imperial or Metric makes no difference it’s all numbers. 25.4 Being that most material and tooling is in Imperial it’s makes sense to use imperial. Neither is superior to the other. It’s a matter of personal preference. 😉 Starrett makes a great wiggler and I’ve used it a few times but prefer an edge finder, Brown & Sharp or Sterrett 😉 It’s nice to see someone actually use a wiggler.
As an apprentice I was shown this method of determining the position of the spindle centreline in relation to the work face but most of the older machine men would lick a small piece of cigarette paper and stick it to the work face to indicate when the cutter was about to touch on. Despite this sounding crude and unhygienic it was quick and surprisingly accurate.
Personally, I make metric parts on metric bikes and Imperial parts on bikes made in inches. Guess I'm OCD but it drives me crazy when people start fitting 'wrong' threads and sizes. Some older Honda's (mid 60's~70's) actually used Whitworth thread on spokes, bit of a shock finding 1/8" Whitworth thread on a 'modern' bike. I had a couple of V-50's and a V-75 several years ago, liked them simply because they are 'different'
....................plus, it isn't possible to set 12.35 when scale only reads in 0.02mm increments. 'Proper' machinists swap back and forth between metric and inches without a problem, even American machinists on You Tube are now doing it (although I'm 'old' and grew up with Imperial system until Britain forced metric on us after joining EEC)
Thanks for sharing!!! You wouldn’t believe the trouble in finding the right video on how to correctly uses of a wiggler. People call all sorts of things “wigglers” and “center finders” are worse!!!
people think that imperial is in fractions... it is not. One inch is split up into 1000 or 10000's of an inch... where is the fraction? only woodworkers use fractions. Thus imperial is no different from the French system. And don't get me started on that! I do not know why anyone would use a system metered out ( pun intended) by two of the most incompetent surveyors that France ever produced.
😢interesting and useful information for the new starts in model engineering. However we should also show safe practice. You should never use a finger to set a wiggles. Always use the side of a pencil etc and not something that will bleed!
Brilliant Video Mark. Thanks for taking the time and effort to film and produce these excellent tutorial videos., which I apreciate is a long job. Cheers.
I’m trying to force myself to use more and more metric, very close to driving myself to insanity.. 😊 The lathe I bought has all metric dials.. so convert it to standard… or learn to use the metric system and start buying metric instruments. So now I hate both systems.That’s where I’m at now. Haha 😛
Informative video. Edge finders are better. This is an old school method that actually takes longer than using an edge finder and happens to be less accurate. Imagine that.
I have a wiggler in My tool box for Years. I have never used it. I always use indicators or edge finders. You are right. Edge finders have made these obsolete. What is the advantage of using the pointer on the wiggler to line up to scribe lines when You can just use a pointer in the chuck or collet? It seems such a waste of time.
Hi, I dont understand the difference between grabbing the tip shape point on the wiggler rather than using the chuck and making the same eye alignment process. Is the wiggler supposed to be more precise??
The wiggler compensates for any bent thing that you'd stick in the chuck and use to align it. The wiggler point when it isn't moving while rotating, absolutely HAS TO BE under the rotational axis.
Chuck is designed for higher torque tightening with a chuck key. wiggler chuck is designed hand tight which will not damage holding shank and correct pressure for slip to wigggle.
Is it acceptable in engineering to use a wiggler as a edge finder instead of a dedicated edge finder. I ask this as if you put a wiggler poing onto the edge of the work you have the edge straight away without calculating the diameter of a dedicated edge finder and then moving it again once you have halved the edge finders diameter if that makes sense.
Nice video and very informative if a budding engineer has need to understand the wiggler! I do have a couple of (hopefully constructive) comments if I may. 1. Whilst I respect your preference for the metric system when reading the vernier scale and converting 0.5" to 12.7mm the scale is required to be between the 0.4 and 0.6 marks so you are reliant on your eye (not that I am doubting your eyesight) but the 0.25" has an exact mark on the scale so why not use it? You may have made a quick comparison when setting the height gauge and if so you have used the imperial scale anyway. 2. This is a minor comment but as your video was perhaps aimed at the less experienced engineer I think it would have been no bad thing if you had demonstrated that your micrometer zeroed out before measuring your stock so that your final measurement of the stock would have had perhaps more credence. I like the use of the magnifying glass I often do the same, we all need the additional assurance that this brings after all the first contact with the centre drill is the most important one.
I learned something the other day at work about the DRO and the wiggler edge finder in a mill drill. The second way you found the center zero out then find the other side, then hit the 1/2 button and the axis to the right (not the zero axis button). The DRO will half the number for you, by turning the handle wheel and move that axis to zero you will be on the center line of that axis. Thanks for sharing! P.S. the height gauge is self checking, rotate you stock 180 and scribe it again. You will see the error and can compensate between the lines.
Hi John, My surface plate is an old industrial item that I bought at an engineering show many years ago. It's bloody heavy, but I have no idea how flat it is. Cheers Masrk
Great video, now I can use 2 of the attachments out of three in the set I have. Is the bent one in the wiggler set an edge finder as well or is that like a coaxial??
Hi, don't know if you've looked further but the bent probe is used to hold a DTI (dial test indicator). The machine should always be off when using it, there's a very brief explanation here: th-cam.com/video/RhtBdar4iVg/w-d-xo.html
I say the same thing about millimeters - and, I still don't know the difference between the Japanese millimeters and the Europeans. In Merika, we have course or fine.
@@jamesjacobs1909 I still don't understand what you are suggesting. There is only one metric system. However like Imperial, Metric also has course and fine thread pitches.
@@jasonplugowsky3086 Not true. there's 1.0, 1.5, 1.25, 1.75, 2.0, and etc. Japanese use 13mm and 9mm, whereas the US uses 8mm and 10mm and etc. I'm not an expert, but I was told that there was no such thing as an 11/32 at 24 pitch either - but they do exist. What about US and Japanese pipe threads?
Thanks Mark, a really great explanation of the wiggler. I'm waiting for a milling machine to be delivered and will have to invest in one, looks like it will get quite a bit of use.....seeing you making parts for your Guzzi makes me wish I hadn't sold my mine :(
Hi Mark, I use the wiggler so much I'm sure I could do it with my eyes closed. Good luck with your mill when it arrives - what are you getting? Thanks for the feedback, Mark
@@markshomeengineering5243 Hi Mark, I went for a Warco WM16 B, the belt drive appealed as it avoids the plastic gearing in some other machines, and Ade from Ades Workshop has one and posts some useful projects using his. How do you find the WM 250? I have a WM 240 and love it....I used a 1934 Drummond before, still have it and will restore it one day. Cheers, Mark.
@@markhansford178 Nice - you won't need to use the wiggler as much as I do as you'll have a dovetail column. This is the big downside of the mill/drills with round columns as once the head is moved and reference to the table is lost. The WM250 is great, especially as it has now settled in. All good fun during these strange times :-) Mark
I guess it's better to have a toy mill than to have a proper one and nothing to drive it with ! Just recently discovered there's a plan to close my front street. I'm making enquiries as to why. I could hope for electrical cabling work then I might ask if they'll slip ina 3 phase upgrade for us while they've got the road up!
I will challenge the wisdom of going near any rotating part using your fingers. Two other content providers both use 1000rpm spin speed and a pen/pencil to stabilise the wiggler. I always use eye protection on my mill and lathe. Maybe for this a full shield (which I do wear on occasions) is also an idea. A wiggler spinning off into your face would be very nasty.
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When scribing a square bar to find the centre, alway turn it over 180 degrees and scribe again…that way you immediately know if it’s in the centre..😉
Excellent video..👍
Great comment 👍
You know if the square is damaged as well
Working in fractions? I have yet to use fractions while in the machine shop. Once you get to measuring, inspection, machine adjustment, it all becomes decimal. Fractional is either an old drawing that needs converted to decimal or your in construction. In the years ive been in machine shops, ive never worked in fractional except maybe grabbing a fractional drill. It all becomes decimal once on the floor so no need to argue about fractions or metric.
especially when using a 1/2 " piece of stock. pretty simple math to divide by 2 to get center.
dump the wiggler get an edge finder one operation and it is easy
I know right? Or a dial indicator if it needs to be even more accurate.
Use a Joe Block to set your Vernier Hight Gage. Imperial or Metric makes no difference it’s all numbers. 25.4
Being that most material and tooling is in Imperial it’s makes sense to use imperial.
Neither is superior to the other. It’s a matter of personal preference. 😉
Starrett makes a great wiggler and I’ve used it a few times but prefer an edge finder, Brown & Sharp or Sterrett 😉
It’s nice to see someone actually use a wiggler.
I use a Starret wiggler when picking up on punch marks, thought everyone without DRO did the same.
As an apprentice I was shown this method of determining the position of the spindle centreline in relation to the work face but most of the older machine men would lick a small piece of cigarette paper and stick it to the work face to indicate when the cutter was about to touch on. Despite this sounding crude and unhygienic it was quick and surprisingly accurate.
Personally, I make metric parts on metric bikes and Imperial parts on bikes made in inches.
Guess I'm OCD but it drives me crazy when people start fitting 'wrong' threads and sizes.
Some older Honda's (mid 60's~70's) actually used Whitworth thread on spokes, bit of a shock finding 1/8" Whitworth thread on a 'modern' bike.
I had a couple of V-50's and a V-75 several years ago, liked them simply because they are 'different'
1/2 of a 1/2” is 1/4”. Much easier and more accurate to set 0.25” on your height gauge than convert to metric.
....................plus, it isn't possible to set 12.35 when scale only reads in 0.02mm increments. 'Proper' machinists swap back and forth between metric and inches without a problem, even American machinists on You Tube are now doing it (although I'm 'old' and grew up with Imperial system until Britain forced metric on us after joining EEC)
Thanks for sharing!!! You wouldn’t believe the trouble in finding the right video on how to correctly uses of a wiggler. People call all sorts of things “wigglers” and “center finders” are worse!!!
Inch stock, inch wiggler, works in metric. OK.
22:41 at this point, you should press the 1/2 button on the DRO as this will then make the centre of the work zero.
You must specify Y 0. ( at least on a Newell DRO)
No, it’s Y button first and THEN the 1/2 button.
You should always check that the height gauge is reading zero with the blade on the surface plate. Its easy to derange the sliding scale or the blade.
Thank you for the video. I'd bought my first wiggler set just a couple of days ago. This was very helpful, putting it mildly. Subscribed.
Nice one Felix. They are amazing bits of kit. All the best with you getting the most from yours.
Mark
people think that imperial is in fractions... it is not. One inch is split up into 1000 or 10000's of an inch... where is the fraction? only woodworkers use fractions. Thus imperial is no different from the French system. And don't get me started on that! I do not know why anyone would use a system metered out ( pun intended) by two of the most incompetent surveyors that France ever produced.
😢interesting and useful information for the new starts in model engineering. However we should also show safe practice. You should never use a finger to set a wiggles. Always use the side of a pencil etc and not something that will bleed!
Thank you for teaching me this.
Great demonstration and explanation.
Brilliant Video Mark.
Thanks for taking the time and effort to film and produce these excellent tutorial videos., which I apreciate is a long job.
Cheers.
I’m trying to force myself to use more and more metric, very close to driving myself to insanity.. 😊
The lathe I bought has all metric dials.. so convert it to standard… or learn to use the metric system and start buying metric instruments. So now I hate both systems.That’s where I’m at now.
Haha 😛
Imperial system looks quite neat on it's own unless represented in decimals. That's exactly when nonsense starts.
I work quite happily in both, just depends what I amd doing.
Are these spheres on the rods one piece or how did you attach then together? Are they welded?
Thanks for the video
It's an off the shelf set, I didn't make it.
Informative video. Edge finders are better. This is an old school method that actually takes longer than using an edge finder and happens to be less accurate. Imagine that.
I have a wiggler in My tool box for Years. I have never used it. I always use indicators or edge finders.
You are right. Edge finders have made these obsolete. What is the advantage of using the pointer on the wiggler to line up to scribe lines when You can just use a pointer in the chuck or collet? It seems such a waste of time.
the wiggler cancels out any runout in the chuck. but yeah i get it@@danneumann3274
Hi, I dont understand the difference between grabbing the tip shape point on the wiggler rather than using the chuck and making the same eye alignment process. Is the wiggler supposed to be more precise??
The wiggler compensates for any bent thing that you'd stick in the chuck and use to align it. The wiggler point when it isn't moving while rotating, absolutely HAS TO BE under the rotational axis.
Chuck is designed for higher torque tightening with a chuck key. wiggler chuck is designed hand tight which will not damage holding shank and correct pressure for slip to wigggle.
At 22:12 you could have pushed Y-1/2 and your Y center would have been at 0 …
Is it acceptable in engineering to use a wiggler as a edge finder instead of a dedicated edge finder. I ask this as if you put a wiggler poing onto the edge of the work you have the edge straight away without calculating the diameter of a dedicated edge finder and then moving it again once you have halved the edge finders diameter if that makes sense.
Nice video and very informative if a budding engineer has need to understand the wiggler!
I do have a couple of (hopefully constructive) comments if I may.
1. Whilst I respect your preference for the metric system when reading the vernier scale and converting 0.5" to 12.7mm the scale is required to be between the 0.4 and 0.6 marks so you are reliant on your eye (not that I am doubting your eyesight) but the 0.25" has an exact mark on the scale so why not use it? You may have made a quick comparison when setting the height gauge and if so you have used the imperial scale anyway.
2. This is a minor comment but as your video was perhaps aimed at the less experienced engineer I think it would have been no bad thing if you had demonstrated that your micrometer zeroed out before measuring your stock so that your final measurement of the stock would have had perhaps more credence.
I like the use of the magnifying glass I often do the same, we all need the additional assurance that this brings after all the first contact with the centre drill is the most important one.
I learned something the other day at work about the DRO and the wiggler edge finder in a mill drill. The second way you found the center zero out then find the other side, then hit the 1/2 button and the axis to the right (not the zero axis button). The DRO will half the number for you, by turning the handle wheel and move that axis to zero you will be on the center line of that axis. Thanks for sharing! P.S. the height gauge is self checking, rotate you stock 180 and scribe it again. You will see the error and can compensate between the lines.
I may be missing something around the 15:00 mark. Why use the wiggler to center find and not just a needle pin chucked up?
wiggler cancels out any runout or bentness
Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏼 📐
Hello Mark. Tell me please what is your surface plate? Is that a standard industrial plate or anything eles?
Hi John,
My surface plate is an old industrial item that I bought at an engineering show many years ago. It's bloody heavy, but I have no idea how flat it is.
Cheers
Masrk
Great video, now I can use 2 of the attachments out of three in the set I have. Is the bent one in the wiggler set an edge finder as well or is that like a coaxial??
Hi, don't know if you've looked further but the bent probe is used to hold a DTI (dial test indicator). The machine should always be off when using it, there's a very brief explanation here:
th-cam.com/video/RhtBdar4iVg/w-d-xo.html
I say the same thing about millimeters - and, I still don't know the difference between the Japanese millimeters and the Europeans. In Merika, we have course or fine.
Japanese and European millimeters?
@@jasonplugowsky3086 Yes, just like England and American SAE. It's all abut the pitch.
@@jamesjacobs1909 I still don't understand what you are suggesting. There is only one metric system. However like Imperial, Metric also has course and fine thread pitches.
@@jasonplugowsky3086 Not true. there's 1.0, 1.5, 1.25, 1.75, 2.0, and etc. Japanese use 13mm and 9mm, whereas the US uses 8mm and 10mm and etc. I'm not an expert, but I was told that there was no such thing as an 11/32 at 24 pitch either - but they do exist. What about US and Japanese pipe threads?
its spelled Murika
Thanks Mark, a really great explanation of the wiggler. I'm waiting for a milling machine to be delivered and will have to invest in one, looks like it will get quite a bit of use.....seeing you making parts for your Guzzi makes me wish I hadn't sold my mine :(
Hi Mark,
I use the wiggler so much I'm sure I could do it with my eyes closed.
Good luck with your mill when it arrives - what are you getting?
Thanks for the feedback,
Mark
@@markshomeengineering5243 Hi Mark, I went for a Warco WM16 B, the belt drive appealed as it avoids the plastic gearing in some other machines, and Ade from Ades Workshop has one and posts some useful projects using his. How do you find the WM 250? I have a WM 240 and love it....I used a 1934 Drummond before, still have it and will restore it one day. Cheers, Mark.
@@markhansford178 Nice - you won't need to use the wiggler as much as I do as you'll have a dovetail column. This is the big downside of the mill/drills with round columns as once the head is moved and reference to the table is lost.
The WM250 is great, especially as it has now settled in.
All good fun during these strange times :-)
Mark
I guess it's better to have a toy mill than to have a proper one and nothing to drive it with !
Just recently discovered there's a plan to close my front street. I'm making enquiries as to why. I could hope for electrical cabling work then I might ask if they'll slip ina 3 phase upgrade for us while they've got the road up!
@@millomwebget a phase converter. I got one off aliexpress, turns 220v 1ph into 400v 3ph.
I run my bt30 (rf30) round column mill on it.
I will challenge the wisdom of going near any rotating part using your fingers. Two other content providers both use 1000rpm spin speed and a pen/pencil to stabilise the wiggler. I always use eye protection on my mill and lathe. Maybe for this a full shield (which I do wear on occasions) is also an idea. A wiggler spinning off into your face would be very nasty.