physic is so weird with does slides ... look like they are almost a track path with no physic on it, just a linear speed, no tilt or anything, even with really high speed, no gravity (like RCT3 had back in the day) it's really sad and frustrating :/
Totally valid critisisms. I think theyve not figured a way out with wont just eat up performance, especially in larger parks. Perfonally i dont mind the flat bottom workaround but i see how dissapoiunting the POV feels. Maybe they´ll keep tinkering with it an release a better version with the release of the bobsled coaster.
@@TheNicloHDit can't be more difficult to do than rct3. This aint the new feature. they completly missed the marked compared to their first game. Fireworks and show are also much worst. At least we have a timeline this time.
Physics is the most important part of a game with roller coasters and water slides. Physics gives the game boundaries and limits. Having no slide physics would be as crazy as having no physics for the coasters! I can't believe they aren't addressing this or making this apparent.
The weird part is that RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 nailed the canned "physics" animations more than 20 years ago. Planet Coaster 2 seems to be using a similar system, just executed poorly. All they need to do is take a little more inspiration from their own past work.
It could be due to limitations within the game engine itself? Keep in mind that RCT3 used a different game engine compared to what PC1 and PC2 are using.
This is what gets me most of all. I'm not a programming expert by any means and I can't pretend to know better than Frontier what's doable and realistic for the game's budget and specs. But... they did this in RCT3 20 years ago. What magic were they using and can they bring it back?
@@Silvarret They also had a single game that also included animal attractions along with coasters, rides and waterslides. It really was amazing what they packed into one game so long ago.
Frontier has been so good about listening to the community and making fixes for this game, that I almost feel bad about asking them for this, but like you said, this is the main selling point of the game and man I’m going to be dissapointed if this isn’t fixed.
I totally agree with you. The slides should be at least as good as RCT3, but the physics and shape of the slides seem to be worse. Haven't seen any videos of the beta version with slides yet so hopefully it will be improved. I hope guests can fly out if you make a slide that's too crazy too :)
Oh my goodness! Thank you for making this video. 😅 I completely agree with all of these points. I hope Frontier will be able to improve it before launch. 🙏
People really think this is something thats gonna change untill in 4 weeks?😅 not trying to ruin the party or hype, but there is no scenario in todays world where a dev would start working on physics for something related to their game 4 weeks before release. For me personally theres been some red flags with planco 2. ive been burnt to many times with unfinished game on release and preorders. Not this time. I hope the game gets released and lives up to the hype but realisticaly i dont see that happening, hence why im holding off on preorder etc. Also still no notice from frontier regarding the the preorder bonuses and if those will be available seperately after release :/ FOMO move at its best
@@megaplexXxHD I think most people realize that this will not be fixed at launch... But Frontier has changed a lot of stuff people asked for after the release of PC1, so if people ask maybe this will be a priority fix after release... Because slide physics is what makes slides fun.... It doesn't have to be 100% realistic
@@KookyBone i agree that it doesnt have to be 100% realistic. And i hope that frontier will implement for user feedback in future patches. But the physics of a ride (slide) probably isnt something you just change with a patch. Its something correlated deep in the basic mechanics of the game, probably changing this will bring up even more bugs that then need to be looked into and be fixed. Thats why its making me a bit dissapointed because it probably will never be fixed for beeing something more complex than simply fixing a bug
I think physics are crucial to have fun with those slides. If they think it's an performance issue they could simulate the physics only for the first person after a ride is opened/changed, record the simulation output, and then replay it instead of calculating the physics every single time a person slides.
I don't think performance is a valid excuse given that RCT3 accomplished believable waterslide animations on the same engine 20 years ago, all running on a single CPU thread. This is a craft issue, not a technical one.
@@Noah-Lach I don't know I can't tell by just this one measurement. Maybe there are thousands more NPCs walking around or other factors which where not in RCT3, I don't know. It's always the easiest to say other's are just stupid without even asking them for reasons.
@@vomm I never called anyone stupid. Nor did I imply that this issue has no reason for existing. I’ve worked on enough product teams, especially software ones, to know that every “inexplicable” shortcoming or flaw (when viewed from outside) has a perfectly solid internal justification - someone who worked on said team can usually give a logical explanation of the path that lead to said point. But ultimately, it usually comes down to technical debt, poor decision making, internal politics or all three. My point is that this major regression is not a limitation of the hardware this game runs on (as people are trying to imply) but the result of some internal choices and priorities. And we are perfectly valid to criticize this strategic choice as being a poor tradeoff.
@@Noah-Lach Technical limitations and performance optimizations are fantasy, in reality everything is just a matter of good leadership. Contact Noah-Lach Consulting now, and your product will take off like a physically calculated NPC on a water slide! (Insert jingle here)
100% noticed that the water slides felt like they were on rails when they first show cased the game. Sadly were only a little over 2 weeks away and It does not appear to have been addressed. I highly doubt it will at release. I am glad you brought this up and showed examples of RCT3, I didn't realize how much of a better physics system they had back then compared to now. My hope is Frontier will see this and implement a better physics system. I hope that the Engine they are using is adaptable enough to compensate for it.
Part of the issue is that a large portion of the fan base throw a temper tantrum whenever someone criticizes of the game. They won't fix issues if there's no criticism
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The river rapid in Planet Coaster 1 has the same problem, the boat continues to go through the center of the track, and does not collide with the sides.
Sadly, all water rides are bad in planco 1, and even sadder, they are still bad in planco 2. They actually had a better rapids ride with the white water rapids on RCT3 soaked, and we regressed from those.
Totally agree. Would be nice to see these things addressed. The flat bottom stuff is weird. I thought something was up with the drop tower slide entrances, but could not put my finger on it! But the hint that the section ribs/lengths visually are being addressed is hopeful.
I agree with the physics of the slides being a huge issue. When the game was first announced, I was really excited for the slides. But since the first deep dive, I have been very concerned with the physics. If the issue does not get fixed, I either will only be building body slides, or I will not be building water slides at all. One thing that gives me hope is I was watching some other creators build a tube slide and there were options for the curves to have a higher wall. Leading me to believe that there will be some kind of swinging motion for the slides when the game launches that we just have not seen yet. Also another thing I want to talk about is the spinning of the tubes. It’s overly done and not realistic at all. It almost seems like the slides are based off the physics of the spinning coasters and not a bob sled type of ride.
I agree with every little aspect you discussed here. But I wanna add on a few things: There are slides with inner tubes which have a flat section. An example are the magic oval slides from Van Egdom, which had one named Anaconda in Oceade Bruxelles, or Magic Maya in Slagharen. Difference here however is that the slide itself has both a flat bottom, as well as a flat roof, which is also visible on the out. The more strange part in PlanCo 2 is that the slide from the outside looks round, but only on the inside has a flat bottom. And I definitely agree with the physics, it's a shame that for such a flat piece, you don't see the slide interact with moving sideways, but that the inner tube stays perfectly in the middle and doesn't behave as a slide at all. Now the physics of a inner tube is quite difficult to grasp in total. Not only do you have the bending of the tube when the floor has curvature, but that curvature will also limit its rotation, while in special elements like the boomerang or cones, it has much more rotational freedom. So giving all those difficulties, I can see why Frontier went for it in this case. The physics of the body slide however are a big shame. Indeed prior in RCT3, the animation of the 'swinging' was physics based and worked identical to a swinging coaster or a bobsled coaster, where the rotation point was placed in the middle of the slides' tube and it just used basic pendulum physics to calculate the swinging realtime. It's a bit unrealistic since it ignores a bit of the friction the water stream has on the swinging velocity of the body, but it worked decently enough. In that regard I find it very strange that what we've seen so far, they went for a prefixed animation, where the swinging is predetermined only by the curvature. It basically looks like: If slides curves to the left, set swing-rotation of body to 30 degrees to the right. Very odd. Big but however... Yet we haven't seen the arrow suspended coaster or wooden bobsled in PlanCo 2, while they were present in the first game. So I suspect something is going one there, but I don't know what it exactly means. But it is a shame that sofar the swinging isn't physics based. I agree with that some parts of the slides still do look weird. The trapdoor is one of them with the door in the back. I get why you would do it when placing those to the edge of a platform. But one option is to add an addition catwalk part which gives pace to open the door in the front, and another option is to use the techniques which makes the holes into the pathing system for the pools to be applied for those slides as well (And imo could be used to create flatrides which has a part of its mechanics under the path level as well). Other parts which i don't like in term of esthetics are the halfpipe part on the big tube slide is very ugly and has a very steep angle which looks very unrealistic, the bowl on the body slide, which is a) too small compared to real life counter parts, and b) has an annoying big curve of normal tube before you enter the bowl. And the size of the trapdoor cabin looks kinda small compared to the slide's tube. Normally the cabin is of the same diameter as the rest of the slide, but here it feels like the slide's diameter is too big. When it comes to the animation within a special element. In RCT3 these also followed a predetermined path which mimics the path it could take based on physics. These elements are almost impossible to calculate in terms of physics in an efficient way suitable for a game like PlanCo, so using the the predetermined path is probably the best way to do it for Frontier. However, the problem is that the path is only 100% realistic for one given entry speed and one mass of passengers. Have a 'boat' with more heavy people, which enters the element with a higher speed and it becomes much more unrealistic. One method however which I would have considered is to make a set of paths for the same special element, which is suitable for different values of entry speeds. In that case you have something like: If entry speed < 10km/h --> follow path A, if 10 km/h < entry speed < 20km/h --> follow path B, if 20 km/h < entry speed < 30km/h --> follow path C, etc. To be fair, I've not much of an idea how efficient this is in terms of computer power and memory usage, but I would have definitely considered it. I do wonder in what extent some things will be changed in the real game or can be changed in a later stadium. Of course we are a bunch of nerds who have eye for the smallest detail, which aren't just worth it for Frontier to spend a lot of time and effort on to get right. But sometimes it feels a bit skewed when you see a lot of details on one piece, and be kinda skewed on a different part of the game.
I understand that there are flat bottomed water slides (see also old Crazy Rivers by Klarer), but none look like this. Certainly not as tight. And I did notice that the bowl slides on RCT3 have their animations affected by entry speeds, possibly something like an A/B/C path like you suggested. Whatever the case, I think animations are a major - but possibly fixable- issue, whereas the flat slide bottoms are looking at a whole different solution. I doubt anything will change there, but I hope so.
Because a O with a flat bottom is apparently impossible? Draw an O, draw a line horizontally through it. Taaaa-ddaaaaaaaaaaaaa. From the outide you still have an O, but inside, inside we have a D shape interior. Amazing right?
RCT3 also had an option to build a belt that took rafts up to the station of the water slides. That was so realistic. I expected PC2 to be better or as good as RCT3.
I am also a waterpark / slide enthusiast so I agree with most of the complaints laid out in video. My main complaint is probably the physics. Visually I think the slides look great, super shiny colorful and beautiful. Also I love all the different types of slide pieces there are. I wouldn’t say im disappointed by the waterparks / slides in this game, just tempered expectation wise do to the physics or lack there of
Something else I don’t like is when you use raft flumes and such (basically the non-body flumes), is that the raft disappears when you hit the water (like this 3:20). I guess it makes them more versatile, because you can use these slides into big swimming pools, instead of these small pool areas that are solely meant to be the end of these slides. But still… it doesn’t make sense that the raft just… poof… disappears.
It doesn’t bother me, at the core planet coaster is a game? And I’d rather this than guest having to all carry tubes in line filling them up too quick, and needing staff to collect them at the bottom. It would be cool that if a guest has the tube item for certain pools (like lazy rivers) where tubes are set as allowed it doesn’t disappear, but I think the solution they went with if not good, is servicable
@@thedalekditto15 It’s not that big of a gripe for me either but seeing these inflatables disappear into thin air does feel a bit off. I’d rather bigger issues were fixed (and this game doesn’t seem to have that many). And I’d prefer content like scenery packs in DLCs and certain rides we haven’t gotten (yet) over this.
THANK YOU for making a video like this ! There are actually a lot of people complaining about this myself included. They could literally use the physics of bobsleigh coaster in PC1 for example and adjust it for the water slides, it's really not that complicated, also on the model / animation topic, it's also quite easy for them to decide and do, there will always be some elements in my eyes that need proper animations and rigid path to make it accros i fully undrestand and agree with that decision, but the whole layout part has no excuse to be that bad. Really hope it was a placeholder like you said, otherwise they better correct that in the first updates they are gonna make or everyone is gonna be upset once they realize how horrible this is. They really gave us something special with PC2 and i'm 100% playing it, but i would rather know already if we are gonna deal with this or not because it is really the only "bad" part of PC2 and it's their main new feature into the game, so i'm really confused to why they decided to make them that important in their trailer while not showing how bad it looked from the inside and it's also shady as hell.
I completely agree with everything you said in the video. The fact that rct3 got the physics right and PC2 haven’t done it yet is a bit of a head scratcher. Especially since it’s the main focus for the sequel.
I will say, flat bottomed slides do exist. They're certainly not common, but they've been popping up more and more recently. And they do lend themselves more to the special elements shown. A slower, more meandering slide with elements almost like grottos and halfpipes. They're not the norm though. I'd rather see a normal tube slide than these.
like the mr freeze rollercoaster, flight of fear at kings dominion, xcelorator at knotts, and or full throttle at six flags. I hope they also add rollercoasters that start the coaster with an actual launch from the station. In planet coaster 1 they always have to roll out the station a little before they can actually launch. I would love to see them allow the coaster to start the launch from the stations
My biggest issue is all the people swimming in the pool right where the slide comes out. I think they should have buoy ropes or something that you would need to put around the area where your slide comes out so they arent just crashing into herds of people swimming in the pool. Would look a lot more realistic i think
I think my main issue is that the entire water park feature isn't a big upgrade over rct3. Most of the mechanics are the same or worse. I was expected a much more realistic and modernized version of the Soaked expansion from rct3. For example, I was expecting things like the peeps carrying tubes up the stairs, improved physics on special elements, the slide operators pulling and pushing the rafts at the start, realistic wave pools, water playgrounds/forts, pitch black covered flumes, etc. The main improvements are the addition of flume runs (idk what they're called) and the flume platforms and entrances, which are more realistic. Other than that though its pretty much the same as rct3 soaked, which is a little underhwelming to me.
I think there was a really advanced program for doing these kind of graphics, but be warned though: This software is very expensive and also very difficult, heres the name it went something like paynt
FINALLY someone else noticed the trap door thing. That kinda made me more furious than it should've when I first saw this. What makes me concerned about this one, is that no Dev seemed to notice that or care even though they definitely had to look at the real life thing a lot of times...
the slide pov really threw me off 😂 hope they can fix it. i think videos like these are really helpful for the general improvement of the game which will benefit all of us
Did you post this on their official forum as well. I'm sure if we all let them know our concerns they will listen. They fixed the ui as well. I'm still hopefully they wil make it better 😊
I can't unsee the weird slide PoV physics now. You're absolutely right, it's kind of like the slide dummy isn't affected by gravity and instead of just pushes to one side or the other. Also real life slides will push you to one side and you'll kind of bob back to the center depending on your speed. Hope they fix this!
For the tube slides they should make 2 models of a raft. One curved so it can swing in the tube and one straight when it comes out or goes on a flat. Then when there is a transition between the two they should make the animation of a raft going from curved to flat.
So pleased you released a vid today. I resubscribed to your channel - joined initially for the Planet Zoo builds when it launched - and hoped you would be releasing more because of PC2 excitement. I kind of have a question/request and hope it's not too cheeky. I didn't really play PC1 and I know precisely nothing about rollercoasters and other rides. Will you be making some guides about building them which also talk about the principles of what makes a good rollercoaster and how they work for the complete noob? So looking forward to the launch and can't wait to see your builds! :)
I find it so odd that Frontier chose to "fake" the water simulation... But now that I think about it the original tagline of Simulation Evolved hasn't been used in a single advertisement. I was really expecting a crazy advanced water simulation experience. Also now that you called out the flat slides its almost like the slides are just a variant of the log flume ride. Regardless I'm still excited for it and will sink another 1000+ hours in this game.
I also want to say that I find it very hard to believe that Fromtier would work so hard on this game in every way possible and leave the slides looking the way they do. Every aspect of the game looks to be done to perfection. For example, the way the scenery animates with the rides, the drop tracks, the new pathing system, and so on. I just find it hard to believe this is the best they could do with water slides and we are looking at a system that is not complete yet.
All very valid points! Those flat bottoms look really odd, especially in the POV view. I personally feel that RCT3 did a few things better with the physics, like the swinging inverted coaster, and the larger river rapids ride that would follow the current, but gravity would push the boat over to the wall. I'm unsure if it's me being nitpicky but I've not seen any one but myself bothered by these, so I'm curious what you think about them. Planco 1 had these awkward straight pieces of track in the boomerangs, the normal had one as part of it's lift hill, and the inverted one had a 12M piece you had to place before lifthills, 12M is pretty long :/ the log flume & water coaster splashdowns too? they're very tiny and the transition between drop & horizontal track look weird if you make anything tall, I think some scalable splashdowns could work.
Video on point, I agree with everything. And thanks for the shout out! I'm very excited for Planco2, but in their current state, the slides looks like it will be fun to play with them for 20 minutes, then it'll just be boring and annoying.
I 100% agree, but man I feel like this video is too late XD Silv, don't get me wrong, but Frontier has listened to you in the past, you know that, but now the game is only 2 weeks away and you're suggesting a little close to release they change the physics of the slides lol There is several reasons why I think the animations are place holder, but the flat slides make me doubt that again
@@imaginationsquare Haha, we'll see. It took quite a while to finally decide to make this video. And a few weeks is nothing in game development time anyway :)
@@Silvarret I feel like saying a few weeks is nothing just emphasizes my point that this video came a little too late haha:p but hey I thought this was a great video and I hope they do *something* about it! Frontier clearly has a passion for this game, look at all the stuff they already gave us! (One thing they did nail with the slides is the visuals though, the slides really look like slides:p)
Thanks for pointing out this quirk! I don't do water parks so I never would have thought much of it, at least not for a while. There's quite a few "odd" decisions with this game, I've noticed. The thing that really set me into a fury was the paywalling of the Carousel, Chair-O-Plane (Chairswing for RCT3 nostalgists), and all but two Wooden coasters behind the Deluxe Edition. I decided not to pre-order at all over that. Didn't notice the weirdness around waterslides or the fact this water-oriented sequel isn't including the _Water Coaster_ unless you Pre-Order. I will probably wait for release-level gameplay footage before I think about buying in.
I was thinking how weird it looks with the speed on the slides as well, why does it seem like it’s all the same speed and momentum throughout the whole slide? Especially on the inner tube slide POV how at the different elements where you go into those corners that shift the slide direction 90° to the left or right (idk the name I’m a coaster thoosie not a slide thoosie sorry), instead of the tube kind of hitting the side of the slides wall, slowing down and turning, it just hits an invisible wall and instantly turns to the right, that would eject the guest just off the tube and into the wall. But hopefully this gets fixed, especially when you think of the context when Planco 1 came out it was drastically different from how it is now, almost not even the same game, so hopefully over time everything gets ironed out. I cannot wait for this game!
Thanks for pointing out the flat-bottomed waterslides, Silv! I hadn’t noticed that, but now it feels like a missed opportunity. A proper transition or refined physics could make a huge difference in making them feel more realistic and fun to use. Also, the water at night is something I’m really hoping has been improved. It would be great to see it finally lit up, given how important water is in the game. Nonetheless, I'm still quite exited for the game so fingers crossed they'll listen to the feedback even if it's just 2weeks away.
The reason that the guests stick so precisely to the angles in the waterslide is because they have modified their keyboard to have a maximum steering of 34%. This is the most optimal angle to turn in a bobsleigh for the most speed
Thanks for speaking up on this. I have a slight hope that this might have just been temporary; as I saw in (I believe Savannah's) video there was text for one of the tube slides has the words "curved bottom" somewhere in the description. Also, having a lack of physics and only having an animation looks pretty bad on some of the pre-built/unique element pieces. The worst offender in that so far is the fly-trap boomerang element (the one that's on the blueprint that's blue in color). The slide element is way steeper than the slide type it's based on, and the animation isn't great (if they added physics the tube would crash into the wall with how steep it is). Another one is possible going to be the looping slide - it might work fine as a pre-built, but with the current slide physics I don't think we'll be able to make our own custom ones. Some smaller things that bother me is the lack of size options for some of the pre-built elements. I'm also not a huge fan of the bowl elements - I'm pretty sure the body slide version is smaller than the smallest available offering, I dislike the entrance into it being a forced 90 degrees left/right, and I dislike that it's only a single color (the body bowl should definitely have multiple flexicolor options on it!). For the tube bowls I dislike that the tubes just drop into the water instead of going into more flume/tube section - I think dropping straight into the water only happens on body bowl slides. Also, just a really small thing, but I hope they change the high wall sections on body slides to be curved instead of flat. It's like that on the tube flumes in the game so I hope if they have the chance to change that. Not really a problem, but something that would be nice is if they added another option of the staircases that guests queue for slides on. Just one that's a *little* wider that can handle two separated lines, that way we can have a staircase that can service/queue for multiple slides/slide platforms. (It would be great if it was a multi-platform stair queue, guests could swap to the other queue after a platform was reached, so that way guests can more easily queue for different platforms/slides above that one.)
I think that the flat bottom may also be to avoid having to have a layer of tranparency on the slide. If the bottom if flat the water can effectively just be a texture effect on the slide, whereas with a round bottom you'd need to have some depth + refraction. Then again, since there shouldn't be that much water inside, they could probably get away with having the water 'hug' the contour of the slide if that is the case.
Thanks for addressing this, Silvarett, your voice is a very important one in the planco community and having you mention it is likely to get noticed. I actually brought these issues up and even went into a bit more details about other waterslide physics issues on my latest video but you're right that i'm no big youtuber. it's appreciated that you're bringing these up.
It feels to me like they just took the rollercoaster mechanics and reskinned it for water slides, like the inner tubes are riding on an invisible track
i'm very glad you spoke up about this, i know a lot of people who were asked to play planet coaster 2 were coaster enthusiasts and they focused more on that too but, i noticed the slides for the game looked pretty underwhelming and worse than RCT3, i really hope they fix this in time considering the ties on the slides were fixed too there is hope!
I posted about this slide physics problem in the PC2 forum just a day ago... I think the physics in RCT 3 was what made that slides great and fun to play with... PC2 seems to replace it with simple animations and only speed seems to be physically driven.... Even the Elements seem to just have a preplanned path... So I think they cheaped out, on developing a more realistic slide physics... Hope they will fix this. A funny thing in your video... The slider that falls out of the tube seems to fall into another tube... I thought he will bug out or fall through.... But it seems that physics start to make him slide again... Sadly you cut away in that moment - but this made me realize that you even could build jumps on RCT3, were you jump out of track and land on another part... Maybe have to try this, while unrealistic, it looks like fun... It doesn't need to be 100% realistic - just like in RCT3 (where you even could go upsidedown in the tube) would be great
to me it looks like they simply took the bobsled coaster from Planco 1 and modified the visuals to slides. the physics on that coaster always were kind of janky, thus i expect the slides to be similarly janky...
I'm also not a fan of the slide physics. It seems weird that the slide physics are so unrealistic when the coasters are very realistic. I understand cause it's much harder to program individual movements on a slide. I do hope they can update the slide physics to make the game more realistic.
Just to preface this, I don’t make games nor have any real experience with how difficult this would be I’ve had this idea for a while of needing to run at least 3 physics based test runs on a coaster or slide for light, medium, and heavy weights of the train/car/guest(s) then have those play as animations when the ride is open as to not be constantly running complex physics while also giving that effect. I have no clue how realistically this could be implemented or even tried but it’s a concept that, if not gruelingly awful to make, could be a solution to the issue of these lackluster animations.
I used to love building water parks in RCT3, but the one thing that would ruin the experience would be that guests went into the water park, ride one thing, and then leave the water area, and wouldn't go back in for a very long time.
I haven't seen any pools built on different levels in Planet Coaster 2 yet. It was fun building multi level pool in Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, hope it's a thing in Planet Coaster 2
Hopefully, knowing the footage is from older versions, that they will have reconsidered and made improvements to what are clear flaws! I had never considered it, but you are absolutely right Silv!
Yeah I saw that all the slides moved as if they were on a track on one of the first showcases and thought… wow RCT3’s slides were more advanced. I don’t know where that leaves us and I don’t know what I should expect because I don’t make games but I was disappointed that’s for sure. Glad you made this video because you’re at least a strong voice. Other things like seemingly not being able to adjust the height of flat ride towers etc would also be a huge disappointment and also just perplexing seeing as it seems like it would be simple to implement.
They should have used a type of rag doll physics inside the slides with an extra animation added at the end of the slide (like hands in the air or whatever random animation), but unfortunately they chose the very easy option and used fixed animations probably connected to the type of segment you used. Kinda 2005-ish and indeed it just doesn't look good.
The game isnt even out yet. The physics we have seen with the waterslides is what was seen in the testing preview. I'm sure they're going to be much better on release
this is how its going to release. and if they don't fix it by release, they'll never fix it, since they don't like invalidating peoples built blueprints.
Excited for the game, glad they fixed the UI, and excited for what water slides can bring in the future (thinking hot tubs, bigger slides, etc) I imagine a lot is saved for DLC, but def want the physics fixed
I love waterslides, I made waterparks in PC1 using random shapes, was so excited to see them in PC2. But at this point I'm so so so disappointed, look at those animations on the funnels, it's a joke and I'm almost offended.
I still have the 2 disks of the RCT3 Gold Edition, you bring me back good memories Silv ! I really the physics will be fixed at the release (fingers crossed)
I'm seeing it as more of an optimization measure to make the slides flat and therefore require less physics/CPU power to make it work, but it's valid criticism and it would at least be good to make Frontier look for a better solution that has minimal impact on performance.
@@martijn9568 my point exactly! And if worst comes to worst, I think most people would prefer some stiff inflatable inner tubes with a little clipping/floating over flat bottoms and no animation.
I agree about the water slides. It’s an unfortunate issue Only criticism I have about the park side of things is Switch/drop tracks need drive tires on them. Also, Hopefully we can set our own block zones at some point…That & a way to actually have switch tracks to add/remove RVs based on capacity. Aside from that I’m excited ! Love the content tho fam & I can’t WAIT to see what you build, it’s gonna be incredible 😮💨🎈
I think everyone is forgetting that most of the videos and game play have come from Alpha builds of the game. As such everything seen there is subject to change. If I were to guess they probably took the rollercoaster basic model, reskinned it using the water slide graphics, and worked from there to get the basic models done. As this is much easier then building from the ground up. Then they have gone through, made custom parts, for the different kinds of slides and tested that everything works properly. They then got the game to a good enough point to start releasing early footage and game play. More then likely things like physics and how the people interact when on the slides have been left until later in the development cycle. I think only the most recent footage released by them has been tagged as Beta. I could be wrong on how much is Alpha versus Beta as I'm not watching every video released about the game.
the solution to this is to make the tube's bones a cone shape and animate it like a spring. So your point of gravity manipulation is on a center point of origin in the middle of the raft. This origin would be invisible the center of the Hole. With a cone shape you can rotate and bounce a tube naturally on a curved slide. Mesh morphing animation would make this even easier. But another solution is, make the tube a raft like rct3 did or get rid of the tube/raft and use a foam matt.
What really surprises me is that they're not using physics to calculate how the sliders slide and instead having them stay on a fixed course. On one hand, it wouldn't seem that surprising since that's how water coasters, log flumes, and rapids rides worked in PC1. *BUT* The big thorn in the side of that assumption is the bobsled coaster. It _DOES_ calculate the physics like how you'd expect. I'm watching a POV of a PC1 bobsled coaster right now and it moves like how you'd expect people in a water slide to move. So really it's a physics problem. They could break the rafts into 3 segments, left wing, center with the rider on it, and right wing and calculate how much those 3 pieces need to bend based on its position in the tube. But they're not. My best guess is that it would tank performance if they did. But then again, a bobsled coaster with a 3-car train is essentially doing the same amount of work as 1 slider with a "3-piece" tube, so...
Love the video! You spoke out my thoughts exactly! I really hope it was just alpha physics, but I think it’s fair to criticize and demand it’s improved for the final release, rather than apologize in name of frontier who hasn’t mentioned anything about this issue!
I was confused, because my first impression was also "slide animations looked better in rct3" but then rationally went like, it couldnt have been that way. But seeing them side to side its kinda shocking.
OOF! yeah I didnt even realize that the slides were FLAT on the bottom, thats just odd? idk, I'll always love RCT3 haha, and its kinda sad that a 20 year old game has better water slide physics. i dunno, I'm still looking forward to it haha, hopefully they will fix it in the future?
Nothing wrong with providing honest feedback, even if it's negative. If they take it the right way, they could turn it into a positive. Thanks Silvarret.
my favourite solution to the curved tube problem would be to have a form fitting model with a dedicated front and back side and only have its texture rotate alongside the model of the guest
100% agree. To be honest I wouldn't be mad about a delay to early 2025. Somehow at some points the game feels rushed. It looks good and i am sure it will be fun to play and all. But on the one side there are the issues you pointed out with the water parks. And on the other side there are still shortcuts when it comes to coasters and stations especially. I feel like a modern Coaster like toutaris, Taron or others are still not 100% possible to recreate (atleast by what we know at the moment) because there are no seperate on and offload sections and no proper switch tracks that allow for reverse launches. I am not sure about the special tracks they might be implemented however stations is still a big ouf for me. Why are there these weird white doors. Why is there only one ride operator. Why do people need to unload the station completely before the next train is boarded etc. etc.
Nice video! some nice points you had that i didnt really think about. However the only reason i still believe in changes, is that they haven't really show any official pov's/footage from the slides. All the pov's come from creators as far as i know.
Hopefully they hear you silv. ANd i know that at the end of the day with mods will be able to salvage theme park water rides except the rapids, ehich until they dont create the version they did in soaked, i dont think we will ever get a good one), but its still a pitty they barely did anything to fix them, when water was gonna be the star of this game, but it still hurts the decide to make tower rides non adjustable flat rides. Thats something that not even mods are gonna be able to fix and it suck we went backwards from the condor ride test. Saldy i dont see them fixing those, no matter how loud we are about them. Hopefully the water park stuff is fixable by them, or mods, though i do see the float water slides, with their flat bottm, never being fixed. That the physics or animation parameters were much better in soaked, being from the same stuido (i know, i know, not the same people) should have been enough to put more work onto them.
I don't know how hard it is to fix the swinging motion, but I assure it's not like snaping fingers and let there be gravity, or is it? Please, Frontier, don't let us down.
If the guest models can flex and deform during animations ,why would'nt the inflatable tubes be able to? I don't see how this would be a technical limitation. It doesnt even have to be physics based, it can just become rounded when it enters the slide
Bummer for the people who like waterslides. I personally don’t give a shit about them, so this doesn’t phase me at all. But this is a glaring issue for the players who do, especially considering they’ve marketed the whole game on the water park aspect. This *needs* addressing at some point. Preferably before release. But I can’t believe they didn’t see how this would be an issue for some players and be found and quickly complained about.
Apart from making more money, I'm not sure why this couldn't be a big DLC with huge improvements to the base game. I smacks of not enough funding, not enough man power, not enough freedom or not enough time. Maybe a mix of all three I dono. But Frontier gonna Frontier. I'm not sold and I won't be buying it, same with PZ2 if that becomes a thing.
Hope this will be fixed from Alpha and Beta to the release. a lot can change in the last few weeks with optimization and polishing of the game and animations.
Oh man i love frontier and their games. But i hope that the waterpark side thats heavy marketed is not gonna let us all down and or that they will fix it. Because now maybe it will impact the review score and final impression it has on people and i really hope that does not turn out to give a lot of negative reviews, also because the game in general seems like a crazy good game and step up from the original!
![ALLY - OH MY! [ REACTION ] 'Amarin Nitibhon' #ALLY_OHMY #ALLY #allynitibhon #แอลลี่](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nX9qpHjVfbQ/mqdefault.jpg)
physic is so weird with does slides ... look like they are almost a track path with no physic on it, just a linear speed, no tilt or anything, even with really high speed, no gravity (like RCT3 had back in the day) it's really sad and frustrating :/
Totally valid critisisms. I think theyve not figured a way out with wont just eat up performance, especially in larger parks. Perfonally i dont mind the flat bottom workaround but i see how dissapoiunting the POV feels. Maybe they´ll keep tinkering with it an release a better version with the release of the bobsled coaster.
@@TheNicloHDit can't be more difficult to do than rct3. This aint the new feature. they completly missed the marked compared to their first game. Fireworks and show are also much worst. At least we have a timeline this time.
@@2freeIvX wtf are you even trying to type in this comment
Good thing you talked about this!
What a small and irrelavant thing to be "frustrating"
Physics is the most important part of a game with roller coasters and water slides. Physics gives the game boundaries and limits. Having no slide physics would be as crazy as having no physics for the coasters! I can't believe they aren't addressing this or making this apparent.
The weird part is that RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 nailed the canned "physics" animations more than 20 years ago. Planet Coaster 2 seems to be using a similar system, just executed poorly. All they need to do is take a little more inspiration from their own past work.
It could be due to limitations within the game engine itself? Keep in mind that RCT3 used a different game engine compared to what PC1 and PC2 are using.
@@michaezell4607 Planet Coaster 1 and 2 are based on the COBRA engine, the same one as RollerCoaster Tycoon 3.
The rct3 slide physics were so broken yet realistic
This is what gets me most of all. I'm not a programming expert by any means and I can't pretend to know better than Frontier what's doable and realistic for the game's budget and specs. But... they did this in RCT3 20 years ago. What magic were they using and can they bring it back?
@@Silvarret They also had a single game that also included animal attractions along with coasters, rides and waterslides. It really was amazing what they packed into one game so long ago.
Frontier has been so good about listening to the community and making fixes for this game, that I almost feel bad about asking them for this, but like you said, this is the main selling point of the game and man I’m going to be dissapointed if this isn’t fixed.
I totally agree with you. The slides should be at least as good as RCT3, but the physics and shape of the slides seem to be worse. Haven't seen any videos of the beta version with slides yet so hopefully it will be improved. I hope guests can fly out if you make a slide that's too crazy too :)
Oh my goodness! Thank you for making this video. 😅 I completely agree with all of these points. I hope Frontier will be able to improve it before launch. 🙏
People really think this is something thats gonna change untill in 4 weeks?😅 not trying to ruin the party or hype, but there is no scenario in todays world where a dev would start working on physics for something related to their game 4 weeks before release.
For me personally theres been some red flags with planco 2. ive been burnt to many times with unfinished game on release and preorders. Not this time. I hope the game gets released and lives up to the hype but realisticaly i dont see that happening, hence why im holding off on preorder etc.
Also still no notice from frontier regarding the the preorder bonuses and if those will be available seperately after release :/ FOMO move at its best
@@megaplexXxHD I think most people realize that this will not be fixed at launch... But Frontier has changed a lot of stuff people asked for after the release of PC1, so if people ask maybe this will be a priority fix after release... Because slide physics is what makes slides fun.... It doesn't have to be 100% realistic
@@KookyBone i agree that it doesnt have to be 100% realistic. And i hope that frontier will implement for user feedback in future patches. But the physics of a ride (slide) probably isnt something you just change with a patch. Its something correlated deep in the basic mechanics of the game, probably changing this will bring up even more bugs that then need to be looked into and be fixed. Thats why its making me a bit dissapointed because it probably will never be fixed for beeing something more complex than simply fixing a bug
I think physics are crucial to have fun with those slides. If they think it's an performance issue they could simulate the physics only for the first person after a ride is opened/changed, record the simulation output, and then replay it instead of calculating the physics every single time a person slides.
I don't think performance is a valid excuse given that RCT3 accomplished believable waterslide animations on the same engine 20 years ago, all running on a single CPU thread. This is a craft issue, not a technical one.
@@Noah-Lach I don't know I can't tell by just this one measurement. Maybe there are thousands more NPCs walking around or other factors which where not in RCT3, I don't know. It's always the easiest to say other's are just stupid without even asking them for reasons.
@@vomm I never called anyone stupid. Nor did I imply that this issue has no reason for existing. I’ve worked on enough product teams, especially software ones, to know that every “inexplicable” shortcoming or flaw (when viewed from outside) has a perfectly solid internal justification - someone who worked on said team can usually give a logical explanation of the path that lead to said point. But ultimately, it usually comes down to technical debt, poor decision making, internal politics or all three.
My point is that this major regression is not a limitation of the hardware this game runs on (as people are trying to imply) but the result of some internal choices and priorities. And we are perfectly valid to criticize this strategic choice as being a poor tradeoff.
@@Noah-Lach Technical limitations and performance optimizations are fantasy, in reality everything is just a matter of good leadership. Contact Noah-Lach Consulting now, and your product will take off like a physically calculated NPC on a water slide! (Insert jingle here)
@@Noah-Lach THIS!
100% noticed that the water slides felt like they were on rails when they first show cased the game. Sadly were only a little over 2 weeks away and It does not appear to have been addressed. I highly doubt it will at release. I am glad you brought this up and showed examples of RCT3, I didn't realize how much of a better physics system they had back then compared to now. My hope is Frontier will see this and implement a better physics system. I hope that the Engine they are using is adaptable enough to compensate for it.
Part of the issue is that a large portion of the fan base throw a temper tantrum whenever someone criticizes of the game. They won't fix issues if there's no criticism
The river rapid in Planet Coaster 1 has the same problem,
the boat continues to go through the center of the track, and does not collide with the sides.
Sadly, all water rides are bad in planco 1, and even sadder, they are still bad in planco 2. They actually had a better rapids ride with the white water rapids on RCT3 soaked, and we regressed from those.
Exactly. The RCT3 version was better. Plus to had a few obstacles.
For real. Even the rct3 river rapids had physics and could collide with the sides of the flume and certain objects inside the flume
Totally agree. Would be nice to see these things addressed. The flat bottom stuff is weird. I thought something was up with the drop tower slide entrances, but could not put my finger on it! But the hint that the section ribs/lengths visually are being addressed is hopeful.
I agree with the physics of the slides being a huge issue. When the game was first announced, I was really excited for the slides. But since the first deep dive, I have been very concerned with the physics. If the issue does not get fixed, I either will only be building body slides, or I will not be building water slides at all. One thing that gives me hope is I was watching some other creators build a tube slide and there were options for the curves to have a higher wall. Leading me to believe that there will be some kind of swinging motion for the slides when the game launches that we just have not seen yet. Also another thing I want to talk about is the spinning of the tubes. It’s overly done and not realistic at all. It almost seems like the slides are based off the physics of the spinning coasters and not a bob sled type of ride.
Wow... I'm just in awe at how professional those schematics were
I was warned but not ready for the professional schematics.
RCT3 20 years old?! Still gets played regularly in this house, but mostly now by my kids. Such a fantastic game.
I agree with every little aspect you discussed here. But I wanna add on a few things:
There are slides with inner tubes which have a flat section. An example are the magic oval slides from Van Egdom, which had one named Anaconda in Oceade Bruxelles, or Magic Maya in Slagharen. Difference here however is that the slide itself has both a flat bottom, as well as a flat roof, which is also visible on the out. The more strange part in PlanCo 2 is that the slide from the outside looks round, but only on the inside has a flat bottom.
And I definitely agree with the physics, it's a shame that for such a flat piece, you don't see the slide interact with moving sideways, but that the inner tube stays perfectly in the middle and doesn't behave as a slide at all.
Now the physics of a inner tube is quite difficult to grasp in total. Not only do you have the bending of the tube when the floor has curvature, but that curvature will also limit its rotation, while in special elements like the boomerang or cones, it has much more rotational freedom. So giving all those difficulties, I can see why Frontier went for it in this case.
The physics of the body slide however are a big shame. Indeed prior in RCT3, the animation of the 'swinging' was physics based and worked identical to a swinging coaster or a bobsled coaster, where the rotation point was placed in the middle of the slides' tube and it just used basic pendulum physics to calculate the swinging realtime. It's a bit unrealistic since it ignores a bit of the friction the water stream has on the swinging velocity of the body, but it worked decently enough. In that regard I find it very strange that what we've seen so far, they went for a prefixed animation, where the swinging is predetermined only by the curvature. It basically looks like: If slides curves to the left, set swing-rotation of body to 30 degrees to the right. Very odd.
Big but however... Yet we haven't seen the arrow suspended coaster or wooden bobsled in PlanCo 2, while they were present in the first game. So I suspect something is going one there, but I don't know what it exactly means. But it is a shame that sofar the swinging isn't physics based.
I agree with that some parts of the slides still do look weird. The trapdoor is one of them with the door in the back. I get why you would do it when placing those to the edge of a platform. But one option is to add an addition catwalk part which gives pace to open the door in the front, and another option is to use the techniques which makes the holes into the pathing system for the pools to be applied for those slides as well (And imo could be used to create flatrides which has a part of its mechanics under the path level as well).
Other parts which i don't like in term of esthetics are the halfpipe part on the big tube slide is very ugly and has a very steep angle which looks very unrealistic, the bowl on the body slide, which is a) too small compared to real life counter parts, and b) has an annoying big curve of normal tube before you enter the bowl. And the size of the trapdoor cabin looks kinda small compared to the slide's tube. Normally the cabin is of the same diameter as the rest of the slide, but here it feels like the slide's diameter is too big.
When it comes to the animation within a special element. In RCT3 these also followed a predetermined path which mimics the path it could take based on physics. These elements are almost impossible to calculate in terms of physics in an efficient way suitable for a game like PlanCo, so using the the predetermined path is probably the best way to do it for Frontier. However, the problem is that the path is only 100% realistic for one given entry speed and one mass of passengers. Have a 'boat' with more heavy people, which enters the element with a higher speed and it becomes much more unrealistic.
One method however which I would have considered is to make a set of paths for the same special element, which is suitable for different values of entry speeds. In that case you have something like: If entry speed < 10km/h --> follow path A, if 10 km/h < entry speed < 20km/h --> follow path B, if 20 km/h < entry speed < 30km/h --> follow path C, etc. To be fair, I've not much of an idea how efficient this is in terms of computer power and memory usage, but I would have definitely considered it.
I do wonder in what extent some things will be changed in the real game or can be changed in a later stadium. Of course we are a bunch of nerds who have eye for the smallest detail, which aren't just worth it for Frontier to spend a lot of time and effort on to get right. But sometimes it feels a bit skewed when you see a lot of details on one piece, and be kinda skewed on a different part of the game.
I understand that there are flat bottomed water slides (see also old Crazy Rivers by Klarer), but none look like this. Certainly not as tight. And I did notice that the bowl slides on RCT3 have their animations affected by entry speeds, possibly something like an A/B/C path like you suggested. Whatever the case, I think animations are a major - but possibly fixable- issue, whereas the flat slide bottoms are looking at a whole different solution. I doubt anything will change there, but I hope so.
Because a O with a flat bottom is apparently impossible? Draw an O, draw a line horizontally through it. Taaaa-ddaaaaaaaaaaaaa. From the outide you still have an O, but inside, inside we have a D shape interior. Amazing right?
RCT3 also had an option to build a belt that took rafts up to the station of the water slides. That was so realistic. I expected PC2 to be better or as good as RCT3.
I am also a waterpark / slide enthusiast so I agree with most of the complaints laid out in video. My main complaint is probably the physics.
Visually I think the slides look great, super shiny colorful and beautiful. Also I love all the different types of slide pieces there are.
I wouldn’t say im disappointed by the waterparks / slides in this game, just tempered expectation wise do to the physics or lack there of
I can’t believe RCT3 is 20 … I remember getting it new when it came out and being so hyped about it and spending hours playing. I’m old.
Same lol
Me too... It's also crazy how it'll still beat PC2 with some features like separate stations for coasters.
Last time I saw a notification on my phone starting "We need to talk..." I got dumped.
Something else I don’t like is when you use raft flumes and such (basically the non-body flumes), is that the raft disappears when you hit the water (like this 3:20). I guess it makes them more versatile, because you can use these slides into big swimming pools, instead of these small pool areas that are solely meant to be the end of these slides. But still… it doesn’t make sense that the raft just… poof… disappears.
It doesn’t bother me, at the core planet coaster is a game? And I’d rather this than guest having to all carry tubes in line filling them up too quick, and needing staff to collect them at the bottom.
It would be cool that if a guest has the tube item for certain pools (like lazy rivers) where tubes are set as allowed it doesn’t disappear, but I think the solution they went with if not good, is servicable
@@thedalekditto15 It’s not that big of a gripe for me either but seeing these inflatables disappear into thin air does feel a bit off. I’d rather bigger issues were fixed (and this game doesn’t seem to have that many). And I’d prefer content like scenery packs in DLCs and certain rides we haven’t gotten (yet) over this.
I'd even rather have the tubes kind of clipping through the slide than the stupid rectangular tubes we have now tbh
Clipping shouldn't an issue if they widen the flumes. Part of the problem is that the flumes are like half was wide as they should be.
Remember frontier listens to criticism
THANK YOU for making a video like this !
There are actually a lot of people complaining about this myself included. They could literally use the physics of bobsleigh coaster in PC1 for example and adjust it for the water slides, it's really not that complicated, also on the model / animation topic, it's also quite easy for them to decide and do, there will always be some elements in my eyes that need proper animations and rigid path to make it accros i fully undrestand and agree with that decision, but the whole layout part has no excuse to be that bad.
Really hope it was a placeholder like you said, otherwise they better correct that in the first updates they are gonna make or everyone is gonna be upset once they realize how horrible this is.
They really gave us something special with PC2 and i'm 100% playing it, but i would rather know already if we are gonna deal with this or not because it is really the only "bad" part of PC2 and it's their main new feature into the game, so i'm really confused to why they decided to make them that important in their trailer while not showing how bad it looked from the inside and it's also shady as hell.
I completely agree with everything you said in the video. The fact that rct3 got the physics right and PC2 haven’t done it yet is a bit of a head scratcher. Especially since it’s the main focus for the sequel.
We all stop anything we are doing to watch a Silv video!
Yup!!
I will say, flat bottomed slides do exist. They're certainly not common, but they've been popping up more and more recently. And they do lend themselves more to the special elements shown. A slower, more meandering slide with elements almost like grottos and halfpipes. They're not the norm though. I'd rather see a normal tube slide than these.
like the mr freeze rollercoaster, flight of fear at kings dominion, xcelorator at knotts, and or full throttle at six flags. I hope they also add rollercoasters that start the coaster with an actual launch from the station. In planet coaster 1 they always have to roll out the station a little before they can actually launch. I would love to see them allow the coaster to start the launch from the stations
My biggest issue is all the people swimming in the pool right where the slide comes out. I think they should have buoy ropes or something that you would need to put around the area where your slide comes out so they arent just crashing into herds of people swimming in the pool. Would look a lot more realistic i think
I think my main issue is that the entire water park feature isn't a big upgrade over rct3. Most of the mechanics are the same or worse. I was expected a much more realistic and modernized version of the Soaked expansion from rct3. For example, I was expecting things like the peeps carrying tubes up the stairs, improved physics on special elements, the slide operators pulling and pushing the rafts at the start, realistic wave pools, water playgrounds/forts, pitch black covered flumes, etc. The main improvements are the addition of flume runs (idk what they're called) and the flume platforms and entrances, which are more realistic. Other than that though its pretty much the same as rct3 soaked, which is a little underhwelming to me.
3:59 Wow! How did you animate these impressive graphics 😮
I think there was a really advanced program for doing these kind of graphics, but be warned though: This software is very expensive and also very difficult, heres the name it went something like paynt
FINALLY someone else noticed the trap door thing. That kinda made me more furious than it should've when I first saw this.
What makes me concerned about this one, is that no Dev seemed to notice that or care even though they definitely had to look at the real life thing a lot of times...
the slide pov really threw me off 😂 hope they can fix it. i think videos like these are really helpful for the general improvement of the game which will benefit all of us
Did you post this on their official forum as well. I'm sure if we all let them know our concerns they will listen.
They fixed the ui as well. I'm still hopefully they wil make it better 😊
Yeah
I can't unsee the weird slide PoV physics now. You're absolutely right, it's kind of like the slide dummy isn't affected by gravity and instead of just pushes to one side or the other. Also real life slides will push you to one side and you'll kind of bob back to the center depending on your speed. Hope they fix this!
For the tube slides they should make 2 models of a raft. One curved so it can swing in the tube and one straight when it comes out or goes on a flat. Then when there is a transition between the two they should make the animation of a raft going from curved to flat.
So pleased you released a vid today. I resubscribed to your channel - joined initially for the Planet Zoo builds when it launched - and hoped you would be releasing more because of PC2 excitement. I kind of have a question/request and hope it's not too cheeky. I didn't really play PC1 and I know precisely nothing about rollercoasters and other rides. Will you be making some guides about building them which also talk about the principles of what makes a good rollercoaster and how they work for the complete noob?
So looking forward to the launch and can't wait to see your builds! :)
I find it so odd that Frontier chose to "fake" the water simulation... But now that I think about it the original tagline of Simulation Evolved hasn't been used in a single advertisement. I was really expecting a crazy advanced water simulation experience.
Also now that you called out the flat slides its almost like the slides are just a variant of the log flume ride.
Regardless I'm still excited for it and will sink another 1000+ hours in this game.
I also want to say that I find it very hard to believe that Fromtier would work so hard on this game in every way possible and leave the slides looking the way they do. Every aspect of the game looks to be done to perfection. For example, the way the scenery animates with the rides, the drop tracks, the new pathing system, and so on. I just find it hard to believe this is the best they could do with water slides and we are looking at a system that is not complete yet.
Cant wait to see your creativity in Planet Coaster 2. You are definitely the best builder on the world!! 😮😮
All very valid points! Those flat bottoms look really odd, especially in the POV view. I personally feel that RCT3 did a few things better with the physics, like the swinging inverted coaster, and the larger river rapids ride that would follow the current, but gravity would push the boat over to the wall.
I'm unsure if it's me being nitpicky but I've not seen any one but myself bothered by these, so I'm curious what you think about them. Planco 1 had these awkward straight pieces of track in the boomerangs, the normal had one as part of it's lift hill, and the inverted one had a 12M piece you had to place before lifthills, 12M is pretty long :/ the log flume & water coaster splashdowns too? they're very tiny and the transition between drop & horizontal track look weird if you make anything tall, I think some scalable splashdowns could work.
Video on point, I agree with everything.
And thanks for the shout out!
I'm very excited for Planco2, but in their current state, the slides looks like it will be fun to play with them for 20 minutes, then it'll just be boring and annoying.
I 100% agree, but man I feel like this video is too late XD
Silv, don't get me wrong, but Frontier has listened to you in the past, you know that, but now the game is only 2 weeks away and you're suggesting a little close to release they change the physics of the slides lol
There is several reasons why I think the animations are place holder, but the flat slides make me doubt that again
@@imaginationsquare Haha, we'll see. It took quite a while to finally decide to make this video. And a few weeks is nothing in game development time anyway :)
@@Silvarret I feel like saying a few weeks is nothing just emphasizes my point that this video came a little too late haha:p but hey I thought this was a great video and I hope they do *something* about it! Frontier clearly has a passion for this game, look at all the stuff they already gave us! (One thing they did nail with the slides is the visuals though, the slides really look like slides:p)
@@imaginationsquare haha fair enough, in hindsight I could've had the balls earlier ;)
Thanks for pointing out this quirk! I don't do water parks so I never would have thought much of it, at least not for a while.
There's quite a few "odd" decisions with this game, I've noticed. The thing that really set me into a fury was the paywalling of the Carousel, Chair-O-Plane (Chairswing for RCT3 nostalgists), and all but two Wooden coasters behind the Deluxe Edition. I decided not to pre-order at all over that. Didn't notice the weirdness around waterslides or the fact this water-oriented sequel isn't including the _Water Coaster_ unless you Pre-Order. I will probably wait for release-level gameplay footage before I think about buying in.
I was thinking how weird it looks with the speed on the slides as well, why does it seem like it’s all the same speed and momentum throughout the whole slide? Especially on the inner tube slide POV how at the different elements where you go into those corners that shift the slide direction 90° to the left or right (idk the name I’m a coaster thoosie not a slide thoosie sorry), instead of the tube kind of hitting the side of the slides wall, slowing down and turning, it just hits an invisible wall and instantly turns to the right, that would eject the guest just off the tube and into the wall.
But hopefully this gets fixed, especially when you think of the context when Planco 1 came out it was drastically different from how it is now, almost not even the same game, so hopefully over time everything gets ironed out. I cannot wait for this game!
Thanks for pointing out the flat-bottomed waterslides, Silv! I hadn’t noticed that, but now it feels like a missed opportunity. A proper transition or refined physics could make a huge difference in making them feel more realistic and fun to use. Also, the water at night is something I’m really hoping has been improved. It would be great to see it finally lit up, given how important water is in the game. Nonetheless, I'm still quite exited for the game so fingers crossed they'll listen to the feedback even if it's just 2weeks away.
The reason that the guests stick so precisely to the angles in the waterslide is because they have modified their keyboard to have a maximum steering of 34%. This is the most optimal angle to turn in a bobsleigh for the most speed
Thanks for speaking up on this. I have a slight hope that this might have just been temporary; as I saw in (I believe Savannah's) video there was text for one of the tube slides has the words "curved bottom" somewhere in the description. Also, having a lack of physics and only having an animation looks pretty bad on some of the pre-built/unique element pieces. The worst offender in that so far is the fly-trap boomerang element (the one that's on the blueprint that's blue in color). The slide element is way steeper than the slide type it's based on, and the animation isn't great (if they added physics the tube would crash into the wall with how steep it is). Another one is possible going to be the looping slide - it might work fine as a pre-built, but with the current slide physics I don't think we'll be able to make our own custom ones.
Some smaller things that bother me is the lack of size options for some of the pre-built elements. I'm also not a huge fan of the bowl elements - I'm pretty sure the body slide version is smaller than the smallest available offering, I dislike the entrance into it being a forced 90 degrees left/right, and I dislike that it's only a single color (the body bowl should definitely have multiple flexicolor options on it!). For the tube bowls I dislike that the tubes just drop into the water instead of going into more flume/tube section - I think dropping straight into the water only happens on body bowl slides. Also, just a really small thing, but I hope they change the high wall sections on body slides to be curved instead of flat. It's like that on the tube flumes in the game so I hope if they have the chance to change that.
Not really a problem, but something that would be nice is if they added another option of the staircases that guests queue for slides on. Just one that's a *little* wider that can handle two separated lines, that way we can have a staircase that can service/queue for multiple slides/slide platforms. (It would be great if it was a multi-platform stair queue, guests could swap to the other queue after a platform was reached, so that way guests can more easily queue for different platforms/slides above that one.)
I think that the flat bottom may also be to avoid having to have a layer of tranparency on the slide. If the bottom if flat the water can effectively just be a texture effect on the slide, whereas with a round bottom you'd need to have some depth + refraction. Then again, since there shouldn't be that much water inside, they could probably get away with having the water 'hug' the contour of the slide if that is the case.
Thanks for addressing this, Silvarett, your voice is a very important one in the planco community and having you mention it is likely to get noticed.
I actually brought these issues up and even went into a bit more details about other waterslide physics issues on my latest video but you're right that i'm no big youtuber. it's appreciated that you're bringing these up.
It feels to me like they just took the rollercoaster mechanics and reskinned it for water slides, like the inner tubes are riding on an invisible track
i'm very glad you spoke up about this, i know a lot of people who were asked to play planet coaster 2 were coaster enthusiasts and they focused more on that too but, i noticed the slides for the game looked pretty underwhelming and worse than RCT3, i really hope they fix this in time considering the ties on the slides were fixed too there is hope!
I posted about this slide physics problem in the PC2 forum just a day ago... I think the physics in RCT 3 was what made that slides great and fun to play with... PC2 seems to replace it with simple animations and only speed seems to be physically driven.... Even the Elements seem to just have a preplanned path... So I think they cheaped out, on developing a more realistic slide physics... Hope they will fix this.
A funny thing in your video... The slider that falls out of the tube seems to fall into another tube... I thought he will bug out or fall through.... But it seems that physics start to make him slide again... Sadly you cut away in that moment - but this made me realize that you even could build jumps on RCT3, were you jump out of track and land on another part... Maybe have to try this, while unrealistic, it looks like fun... It doesn't need to be 100% realistic - just like in RCT3 (where you even could go upsidedown in the tube) would be great
3:01 The water looks a little too deep compared to 8:39, not sure if it's because the tube ride is different.
to me it looks like they simply took the bobsled coaster from Planco 1 and modified the visuals to slides.
the physics on that coaster always were kind of janky, thus i expect the slides to be similarly janky...
I'm also not a fan of the slide physics. It seems weird that the slide physics are so unrealistic when the coasters are very realistic. I understand cause it's much harder to program individual movements on a slide. I do hope they can update the slide physics to make the game more realistic.
Just to preface this, I don’t make games nor have any real experience with how difficult this would be
I’ve had this idea for a while of needing to run at least 3 physics based test runs on a coaster or slide for light, medium, and heavy weights of the train/car/guest(s) then have those play as animations when the ride is open as to not be constantly running complex physics while also giving that effect. I have no clue how realistically this could be implemented or even tried but it’s a concept that, if not gruelingly awful to make, could be a solution to the issue of these lackluster animations.
I used to love building water parks in RCT3, but the one thing that would ruin the experience would be that guests went into the water park, ride one thing, and then leave the water area, and wouldn't go back in for a very long time.
I haven't seen any pools built on different levels in Planet Coaster 2 yet. It was fun building multi level pool in Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, hope it's a thing in Planet Coaster 2
Hopefully, knowing the footage is from older versions, that they will have reconsidered and made improvements to what are clear flaws! I had never considered it, but you are absolutely right Silv!
Yeah I saw that all the slides moved as if they were on a track on one of the first showcases and thought… wow RCT3’s slides were more advanced. I don’t know where that leaves us and I don’t know what I should expect because I don’t make games but I was disappointed that’s for sure. Glad you made this video because you’re at least a strong voice. Other things like seemingly not being able to adjust the height of flat ride towers etc would also be a huge disappointment and also just perplexing seeing as it seems like it would be simple to implement.
They should have used a type of rag doll physics inside the slides with an extra animation added at the end of the slide (like hands in the air or whatever random animation), but unfortunately they chose the very easy option and used fixed animations probably connected to the type of segment you used. Kinda 2005-ish and indeed it just doesn't look good.
The game isnt even out yet. The physics we have seen with the waterslides is what was seen in the testing preview. I'm sure they're going to be much better on release
I'm sadly not sure about that.
Even then now is the best time to complain before the game is out.
this is how its going to release. and if they don't fix it by release, they'll never fix it, since they don't like invalidating peoples built blueprints.
Excited for the game, glad they fixed the UI, and excited for what water slides can bring in the future (thinking hot tubs, bigger slides, etc) I imagine a lot is saved for DLC, but def want the physics fixed
I love waterslides, I made waterparks in PC1 using random shapes, was so excited to see them in PC2. But at this point I'm so so so disappointed, look at those animations on the funnels, it's a joke and I'm almost offended.
I still have the 2 disks of the RCT3 Gold Edition, you bring me back good memories Silv ! I really the physics will be fixed at the release (fingers crossed)
I'm seeing it as more of an optimization measure to make the slides flat and therefore require less physics/CPU power to make it work, but it's valid criticism and it would at least be good to make Frontier look for a better solution that has minimal impact on performance.
If Frontier could make it look okay back in RCT 3, then they certainly can with today’s tech.😅
@@martijn9568 my point exactly! And if worst comes to worst, I think most people would prefer some stiff inflatable inner tubes with a little clipping/floating over flat bottoms and no animation.
@@martijn9568your comparison is pure nonsense
I agree about the water slides. It’s an unfortunate issue
Only criticism I have about the park side of things is Switch/drop tracks need drive tires on them.
Also, Hopefully we can set our own block zones at some point…That & a way to actually have switch tracks to add/remove RVs based on capacity.
Aside from that I’m excited !
Love the content tho fam & I can’t WAIT to see what you build, it’s gonna be incredible 😮💨🎈
I think everyone is forgetting that most of the videos and game play have come from Alpha builds of the game. As such everything seen there is subject to change. If I were to guess they probably took the rollercoaster basic model, reskinned it using the water slide graphics, and worked from there to get the basic models done. As this is much easier then building from the ground up. Then they have gone through, made custom parts, for the different kinds of slides and tested that everything works properly. They then got the game to a good enough point to start releasing early footage and game play. More then likely things like physics and how the people interact when on the slides have been left until later in the development cycle. I think only the most recent footage released by them has been tagged as Beta. I could be wrong on how much is Alpha versus Beta as I'm not watching every video released about the game.
the solution to this is to make the tube's bones a cone shape and animate it like a spring. So your point of gravity manipulation is on a center point of origin in the middle of the raft. This origin would be invisible the center of the Hole. With a cone shape you can rotate and bounce a tube naturally on a curved slide. Mesh morphing animation would make this even easier.
But another solution is, make the tube a raft like rct3 did or get rid of the tube/raft and use a foam matt.
Love the “but we digress” vibes of this video. Lol
This vid is vintage Silv for anyone who ever watched him way back in the RCT3 days lmao
What really surprises me is that they're not using physics to calculate how the sliders slide and instead having them stay on a fixed course.
On one hand, it wouldn't seem that surprising since that's how water coasters, log flumes, and rapids rides worked in PC1.
*BUT*
The big thorn in the side of that assumption is the bobsled coaster. It _DOES_ calculate the physics like how you'd expect. I'm watching a POV of a PC1 bobsled coaster right now and it moves like how you'd expect people in a water slide to move.
So really it's a physics problem. They could break the rafts into 3 segments, left wing, center with the rider on it, and right wing and calculate how much those 3 pieces need to bend based on its position in the tube. But they're not. My best guess is that it would tank performance if they did. But then again, a bobsled coaster with a 3-car train is essentially doing the same amount of work as 1 slider with a "3-piece" tube, so...
100% agree. lets hope what we so is an earlier build and its fixed by now
Love the video! You spoke out my thoughts exactly!
I really hope it was just alpha physics, but I think it’s fair to criticize and demand it’s improved for the final release, rather than apologize in name of frontier who hasn’t mentioned anything about this issue!
I was confused, because my first impression was also "slide animations looked better in rct3" but then rationally went like, it couldnt have been that way.
But seeing them side to side its kinda shocking.
OOF! yeah I didnt even realize that the slides were FLAT on the bottom, thats just odd? idk, I'll always love RCT3 haha, and its kinda sad that a 20 year old game has better water slide physics. i dunno, I'm still looking forward to it haha, hopefully they will fix it in the future?
Nothing wrong with providing honest feedback, even if it's negative. If they take it the right way, they could turn it into a positive. Thanks Silvarret.
my favourite solution to the curved tube problem would be to have a form fitting model with a dedicated front and back side and only have its texture rotate alongside the model of the guest
100% agree. To be honest I wouldn't be mad about a delay to early 2025. Somehow at some points the game feels rushed. It looks good and i am sure it will be fun to play and all. But on the one side there are the issues you pointed out with the water parks. And on the other side there are still shortcuts when it comes to coasters and stations especially. I feel like a modern Coaster like toutaris, Taron or others are still not 100% possible to recreate (atleast by what we know at the moment) because there are no seperate on and offload sections and no proper switch tracks that allow for reverse launches.
I am not sure about the special tracks they might be implemented however stations is still a big ouf for me. Why are there these weird white doors. Why is there only one ride operator. Why do people need to unload the station completely before the next train is boarded etc. etc.
I was about to break out my RCT3 Pack to check the waterslide shape.. You did it for me, I think the Planco 2 tubes are probably WIP. Cheers.
It should also be noted that even RCT3 had better water slide physics! Everything sways very nicely on that game.
Nice video! some nice points you had that i didnt really think about. However the only reason i still believe in changes, is that they haven't really show any official pov's/footage from the slides. All the pov's come from creators as far as i know.
That's a fair point!
Hopefully they hear you silv.
ANd i know that at the end of the day with mods will be able to salvage theme park water rides except the rapids, ehich until they dont create the version they did in soaked, i dont think we will ever get a good one), but its still a pitty they barely did anything to fix them, when water was gonna be the star of this game, but it still hurts the decide to make tower rides non adjustable flat rides. Thats something that not even mods are gonna be able to fix and it suck we went backwards from the condor ride test. Saldy i dont see them fixing those, no matter how loud we are about them. Hopefully the water park stuff is fixable by them, or mods, though i do see the float water slides, with their flat bottm, never being fixed. That the physics or animation parameters were much better in soaked, being from the same stuido (i know, i know, not the same people) should have been enough to put more work onto them.
They need to bring back the tube lifts like in rct3. It’s so strange how tubes disappear
I was really hoping Frontier did a physics based system similar to Parkitect's raft rides, hoping this might get patched or is just simply unfinished
this footage came from before they even finished doing the animations for coasters. itll be fixed.
I don't know how hard it is to fix the swinging motion, but I assure it's not like snaping fingers and let there be gravity, or is it?
Please, Frontier, don't let us down.
You make a delicious compliment sandwich Silv. I'm just as hyped to see your PC2 creations as I am to play PC2 itself.
Here it is, I was expecting it haha
If the guest models can flex and deform during animations ,why would'nt the inflatable tubes be able to? I don't see how this would be a technical limitation. It doesnt even have to be physics based, it can just become rounded when it enters the slide
Bummer for the people who like waterslides. I personally don’t give a shit about them, so this doesn’t phase me at all. But this is a glaring issue for the players who do, especially considering they’ve marketed the whole game on the water park aspect.
This *needs* addressing at some point. Preferably before release. But I can’t believe they didn’t see how this would be an issue for some players and be found and quickly complained about.
If I were Frontier, I'd listen to Silv's opinions.
Koali 3 when released? 🤞
Apart from making more money, I'm not sure why this couldn't be a big DLC with huge improvements to the base game. I smacks of not enough funding, not enough man power, not enough freedom or not enough time. Maybe a mix of all three I dono. But Frontier gonna Frontier. I'm not sold and I won't be buying it, same with PZ2 if that becomes a thing.
Why do the tubes stick to the flumes like magnets, Frontier?
it will be amazing
Hope this will be fixed from Alpha and Beta to the release. a lot can change in the last few weeks with optimization and polishing of the game and animations.
Look at Bob Wintersport, Frontier. That's hi G's at high speed. Plus, a Bob sled has as few points of contact to the tube as a fast slider.
I should start my own digital water slide consultancy.
Oh man i love frontier and their games. But i hope that the waterpark side thats heavy marketed is not gonna let us all down and or that they will fix it. Because now maybe it will impact the review score and final impression it has on people and i really hope that does not turn out to give a lot of negative reviews, also because the game in general seems like a crazy good game and step up from the original!
Are we sure they wont fix this? The footage we have seen are alpha engine footage