The Good Place. It seemed like they would have just had each season be another round of the same thing, but no, every season told a different story within the whole story. Best TV show ever.
Taking the characters back to their homes is simply brilliant, it reminds the audience of what's at stake and creates a valley -- a moment where the audience can breathe and delve in the characters -- and that is excellent if we're coming from an intense peak. These peaks and valleys give the story a good flow which would otherwise be very stale and monotonous despite being action-heavy. A rollercoaster wouldn't be fun if it only went upwards. What's more: a subversion or twist is like a loop in a rollercoaster: it is unexpected and forces us to re-signify the narrative -- but a bad subversion is like a poorly designed loop: it just makes the audience confuse and takes everyone off the tracks
You're spot on. Another thing I love about Ep2 is that they choose to return to the game. That element of choice makes them responsible for all the actions that follow (as opposed to "You're stuck here, now fight to get out). Also very cool that they don't vote to leave after the first time. Says so much about the characters.
It’s so satisfying when a movie or TV show has twist and turns that genuinely shock the audience. So many movies and shows today play it safe and make for a boring and predictable experience. It’s refreshing when a show or movie can keep me on my toes. I’m currently watching a show that does this incredibly well. Even if I know the outcome in some cases, I have no idea _how_ that outcome will be reached. When I think I do, the show manages to prove me wrong, in a way that feels deserved as well.
The movie "Cube" is a good example where they manage to pull this type is story off without any flashbacks and with a minimum of character backstory. It's all about the present and that's enough.
For some reason I took a huge liking in how Saint Seiya Omega handled the character of Ikki. Ikki, the Phoenix, is established almsot right from the getgo in Saint Seiya (Knoights of the Zodiac in the West) as an immortal character. Normally this would take a lote of intrigue and suspense away, but Masami Kurumada and later the authors at TOEI animations did a great job in keeping Ikki out of most fights and centering those he did participate not around the questions of survival, but rather emotional stakes. That said, he pulled a major fight in Omega S2, where he (finally?) met an opponent on par with him. They die, both. Now, I remember my friend and I sitting there, watching the show for the first time and going: "Nah, it's Ikki. He's back up in an episode or two. They need him for the final fight." (which was then just a few episodes away). But Ikki didn't come back. When the show reached it's second to last (I think) episode we accepted that somehow Ikki died. As we never got any confirmation of what actually caused his immortality, we had some theories on how this could've happened. We accepted his death. Then the Antagonist STOPPED THE TIME. Like, of the whole universe. Everythings dead by default, but the antagonist and the main character, because the antagonist wanted to fight him. In in that moment, when everything is factually dead, because time is no more (they worked towards that theme pretty well, too), Ikki raises from the rubble, gave some of his power to the MC and just walks aways casually. We were mind-blown. Not also did the writers trick us into believing in the death of an immortal character, they also made it so that his immortality had a huge impact when it showed again. Because, again, even he shouldn't be able to move. In terms of the show he surpassed the status of a god. I don't think I've seen many shows or read many books that subverted my expectations so well. Oh, also Thunderbolt Fanatsy S3, when one of the characters switches sides. That was pretty unexpected, given how the character was portrayed up til then and I just can't wait for Season 4.
It's just a tiny little one, but I love when the dragon in Shrek is a girl dragon. I guess that's more than subverting expectations, it's subverting a cliche.
Brillant video! Only on thing, I disagree about flashbacks bein allways wrong in a movie. Sometimes it´s the only way to show somthing. Specially, if that flashback gives the audience a new perspective, and makes them afraid of what´s going to happen. You can show the audience something that the main characters doesn´t know or even suspect.You make the audience want to shout to the good ones: watch out. But they can´t. Flashback, can also be an whole story that completes the main story. Just my point of view. Thanks for you videos I am learning a lot.
@@deanjustdean7818 Thanks for your answer. I´ll read your books. Gonna make a Desiderata, at the Public library, here in San Sebastián, Spain. With a bit of luck, after I read it, they´ll put on the reconmend zone. Keep on the good work!
Too bad the detective subplot didn't really go anywhere meaningful, just a bit of "behind the scenes" facility exposition. Thankfully the actor potraying the detective has been already cast in season 2 so maybe this story will get some better outcome.
Not even close. If done right, the subversion should be better than the expectation. It should be shocking, but still make sense given the context. This way it feels deserved, as opposed to just throwing in random nonsense for the sake of being unpredictable.
It's interesting to note the old man is the only side-character of importance that we didn't get to follow. It's one of those things where you understand why by the end of the series but in the moment you don't notice his absence because the other character stories are done so well.
The main character does run into the old man outside the games. I think that small scene is enough to convince the audience he is just a regular person and contestant like everyone else in the games.
I think they did a great job in just taking your interest away from the character you should distrust (which a lot of East Asian shows do well, actually). They show you the old man as something out of the ordinary right from the start, they even focus the main character on it. This I think is the main reason why we never distrust him in anyway. Because the MC doesn't. The writers did a great job in channeling the viewers emotions and expectations, so much that I consider the twist in Squid Game on par with those in Thunderbolt Fantasy S2&3. You easily could've seen through it right from the start. But you couldn't, because of how the makers choose to tell the story. They gave you all of the hints you needed, but in a way taht seemed insignificant - to the character you follow. They could've said to you "He's the bad guy" and you wouldn't believe it until the end - because the MC didn't. The twist itself isn't actually that new (not even in western media, where it is pulled less often), but the way they hid it was genious.
Andor was an excellent show that subverted many expectations. Based on Rogue One, we know Cassian Andor's fate. What story can be told that is going to be remotely interesting. Answer: a very good one. The writers dispensed with light sabers, the Force, Jedi and Sith, and took the story to an everyman level. How do you respond to a world that is slowly being remade by a repressive regime, and all you know to do it to squeak by on the fringes by stealing. Bit by bit, and story by story, we are carried forward, sometimes in a very linear fashion, and then we are treated to time jumps. What was an ancillary point in an episode one to two back assumes great significance in the current episode. This is a show in which all the characters are caught up in the sweep of societal change, and none, want to go. But go they must, and for right and wrong choices, we see the consequences of their actions. This was a wonderfully written and wonderfully acted show. It has to be one few times when a character saying, "I can't swim" slams you in the gut.
I think this is your best video yet!! (or at least the most helpful to me). My mum AKA most ruthless beta reader/critic says I need more of this and you have just given me the simple explanation to fulfill it! To answer your Q prob the best one I've seen lately is the classic Jamie Lannister losing his hand! But Martin is truly the king of this and does it so so well so often!
Glad this helped! And yeah, GoT (especially the early seasons) did an amazing job subverting expectations. Jamie having to overcome his lost hand made his character much more interesting because he had to struggle and redefine himself.
I love this episode, it’s a great example of subverted expectations, as the metaphorical “Hell” isn’t the Squid Game, it’s the real world, and (spoilers) each character who is focused on in the outside world takes an action in this episode which is later echoed in their death
The main reason "The Last Jedi" became my favorite "Star Wars" movie is that Rian Johnson repeatedly subverted expectations. He was pretty much handed all the plot elements from both "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" and used them all -- except at each turn he said, "Nope!" to the viewer's expectations. (NOTE: I wrote this just before you used the "throne room" scene as an example of bad subversion.)
I hate flashbacks too. But I found myself enraptured by Blue Eye Samurai’s use of flashbacks, especially the fifth episode of season one. Why does that work so well?
While it wouldn’t count as recent, GoT is a great example, for me, of how subversion can be extremely powerful. I have been an avid reader of Sci-fi and fantasy since the 1960s, but for the ten years before I read GoT I had gotten very bored with these genres, and really fiction in general, because I just wasn’t finding anything that drew me in the way stories had before. What I kept running into was more and more of the same stale garbage rehashed. Then I picked up GoT, and the subversion is absolutely what grabbed me a pulled me in. I couldn’t wait for the next books to come out, and then the TV episodes. I only wish Martin had finished the books, or the original series writers had stayed on and done the last couple of seasons. Such a tragic waste of a good story.
The tug o war episode ruined the whole story. That was the point where everyone (including the characters) knew that at some point they'd have to kill eachother until there was a last one standing. Once that happened the ability to leave by majority vote basically showed us that everyone, even our MC, were willing to kill friends and comrades for money and everything began to feel fake. The relationship with the MC and the love interest was pointless because they knew they were consenting to kill eachother eventually (I know that's not what happened but it was an unspoken agreement). Anyone who wanted to leave after it was revealed they would be killing eachother were now trapped by the majority who wanted to play (including MC). Characters were chastised for killing people when everyone was. (Felt like team rocket for being evil by catching pokemon in nets rather than beating them up and using a magic ball). I couldn't find myself empathetic to any character in the story after that episode. I think squid game would have been better if the games were not piting people against eachother and were set in a way that suggested "everybody can be a winner if you play well enough" Because they chose the battle royal route the notion of an escape clause made every character 1. Willing to kill for money 2. A victim of their own choice and hard to care about.
I dont think that Squid Game is a good example, because after they come back they all get killed and never reconsider that they can just escape, even thought they really have the means to exit. It was not well developed after they return at all. And the finale is also really dumb and makes that one voting scene make even less sense
... but I hated the twist ending of Squid Game. It was just a plot twist for the sake of it that didn't make much sense and raised a ton of questions and issues that don't make sense in hindsight.
Do you have any tips on how to provide character backstory without flashbacks? I’m trying to write a story about two people stuck in space that is post apocalyptic. I’m struggling with how to create backstory’s for them, I’ve seen plenty of videos saying “show don’t tell” but I have no idea how else to “show” who these characters are besides flashbacks.
That's a good idea for a video. I generally dislike flashbacks, and I never use them in my own stories. Usually I will hint at the past through character actions/habits or have them discuss the past in conversation. Anything specific you'd like me to cover in such a video?
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty That’s a great idea. My one thing I am struggling with, is I am trying to make sure my story doesn’t fall into the “and then” trope which I know generally means you have something pretty boring. I want to be able to make my story extremely character driven, and flesh out who these two are without it being a snooze fest basically. But the idea and concept of these guys stuck in space after the apocalypse, I just don’t know how to do it without using a flashback other then them giving an exposition dump. But when I do it through the eyes and have the characters explain what happened, it comes across as boring and everyone says “show don’t tell.” So I’m not sure how to progress the story forward.
How about them telling each other their backstories, but with lies and omissions. They can call each others bluffs or slowly open up to each other or whatever and reveal more details or more truthful versions later on. You might even reveal a hidden connection between them. A bit clichee-ish, but it gives you the opportunity to make the backstory telling part of the actual plot.
Another Korean Netflix show that just kept me guessing was Hellbound. With Squid Games there was hope things would go a certain way. In Hellbound, you are clueless as to what is going to happen. Every time you think something is going to go a certain way, it doesn't. Even the ending, might have been the after credits, again flips it on you. A good watch.
Finally a video thank you.i think the start of my story had a good subversion.like im starting the develop the beginning more now that i have the full idea and i ser up a rainy day and people without cloaks waiting under a roofed area complaining about their clothes that got hung up getting wet now.the protagonist walks in to the scene offerinf them 2 free cloaks but asked for money so she could pay for a ride for her and her friend home once the deed was done she rushed to the nearest pub and bought 2 drinks 1 for her and q for her friend and she laughed at the 2 guys that were long gone for giving her money.i wanted to setup the protagonist to be a smart manipulative and selfish person that was desperate for money to get to her goal
Overall, subverting expectations is probably a good thing... "creative disruption", etc. But the subversion has to bring something to the table, that makes the story better. Good subverted expectations: The Mask (Jim Carrey), the frumpy, less sophisticated girl turns out to be the villain, and the beautiful sophisticated girl turns out to be good. Payoff: surprise, and audience sees that not judging people on their looks cuts both ways. Bad subversion: Star Wars, the Force Awakens... audience never expects to see Han Solo killed off, in a death that achieves nothing. Payoff? Nothing. A big "f.u." to fans who loved this character. Nobody saved or grows or redeemed by this death.
Ending (partial) spoilers for Das Boot, Cube, Cabin in the Woods, and It Comes At Night inbound. Favorite? Hmm. One of them is probably the ending of Das Boot. It just drove its point home exceptionally well. Similar with Cube; it makes a point but keeps you thinking. Both cases are downers that really work *because* they tie-in to the message so well. Not-so-favorites are when movies, often horror, try to be clever and it falls flat. Cabin in the Woods started okay, but got ungodly boring with the "twist". I just didn't care about any of it after that. Or It Comes At Night, which was probably yet another "paranoia is the real enemy" stories, but the events make the paranoia quite sensible. You also keep expecting to learn more to make the title make sense, but it's like "oh. paranoia bad. Even though it's rational. Okay."
I'm still irked about the fact that Alice in Borderlands flew under the radar for most people, because it came out at the same time - Alice only did the *subverting expectations* about a million times better than Squid Game.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I have not. But thanks, I checked it out and it seems like something right down my alley. And they happen to be on sale on steam right now lol Thanks for the tip!
Some may hate this movie but league of extraordinary gentlemen. The man who forms the league is actually the villain they seek and he used them to get the power of the league for himself.
I didn’t like End Game’s killing off Thanos in the beginning. It felt like a basketball player set up a slam dunk only to have his teammate catch it, fall past the out-of-bounds, land on the wooden floor cradling the basketball, and then get up to yell touchdown. If I had a chance to rewrite that movie, I’d make the epic, expected battle, and aim for an interesting, unique, and meaningful way to conclude that showdown.
But that diminishes the whole point. They'd had the epic, expected battle. Thanos had won. And he'd made sure there was no way for them to reverse it. He literally had nothing left to fight for, nor any reason to. More to the point, if they'd done what you'd suggested, then you'd have had this epic battle which would have meant absolutely nothing. They'd have won and found out it didn't matter. Or maybe they would have lost, but would have kept assuming that defeating Thanos would have provided a way to save everyone. Going in there, effortlessly kicking ass, and finding out it made no difference set up the characterization seen later in the film. Thor and Hawkeye broke. Iron Man gave up and tried to find some meaning in what was left. Captain America was being Captain America and trying to assist normal people caught up in the tragedy, and so on.
And GOT did that so often that you could foresee the outcome OF EVERY EVENT. The writing deliberately made you fall in love with a character just so they can subvert expectations by *predictably* killing them off. No, Brandon I cannot agree. Game of Thrones was done so badly that I was instantly aware that one doesn't even need to know how to write to hit it big. I said it before, the only thing you need to get published and make tons of cash is to put two Rs in the middle of your name.
I DO NOT like when expectation set-ups are subverted, like in GOT. To me those are just extreme plot twists that make all the time you've invested in a story up to that point worthless. I like when stories follow their own arc without jerking you around.
You did not subvert my expectations with meaning or depth in this video by trashing Game of Thrones and The Last Jedi. This is not to say that Game of Thrones was amazing in its final season, but I think it's "interesting" that largely the backlash to subverting expectations in both of these stories is centered heavily on asking the audience to accept that certain characters are not _inherently_ special. When people complain that Dany or Jon didn't "fulfill their birthright" for example, or that "Rey can't be nobody that doesn't make any 'sense'" that demonstrates what they value and begs the question of why they find value in those things. I also find it a little funny the way you warn you're going to spoil Squid Game, when you are only talking vaguely about two episodes and then go onto massively spoil a bunch of other things unrelated to Squid Game without any warning. Or that you didn't demonstrate any depth at all to the subversions in Endgame, it's mostly "It was different, and I liked it." I feel like anybody who grew up watching saturday morning superhero cartoons, with big multi-episode event arcs, _absolutely_ expected a time travel story. The only subversion is in the way they handle time travel, attempting to preserve the consequencces of what Thanos had done on some level. A ripple effect that has largely functioned as dead weight, and thus a missed opportunity in subsequent properties. Like how nobody in Peter Parkers inner circle grew by five years and moved on without him, but I digress. Yes, it was unexpected when Thanos died at the start... so? I could be wrong, but you may also be misreading the protagonist in Squid Game. I don't think it's supposed to be he ruins his life with a "gambling addiction" I believe it's supposed to set up the themes and metaphors of the show, that this guy is so desperate for money that he will play dangerous games in the extremely vain hope of getting enough of it to make his family happy. A hope of statistical futility.
The Good Place. It seemed like they would have just had each season be another round of the same thing, but no, every season told a different story within the whole story. Best TV show ever.
It was decent but not elite level tv
Started out strong but for weaker every season. Far from best
I loved the first couple of seasons, but it got really bad. It got so bogged down in the politics of hell it couldn't save itself.
Taking the characters back to their homes is simply brilliant, it reminds the audience of what's at stake and creates a valley -- a moment where the audience can breathe and delve in the characters -- and that is excellent if we're coming from an intense peak. These peaks and valleys give the story a good flow which would otherwise be very stale and monotonous despite being action-heavy. A rollercoaster wouldn't be fun if it only went upwards. What's more: a subversion or twist is like a loop in a rollercoaster: it is unexpected and forces us to re-signify the narrative -- but a bad subversion is like a poorly designed loop: it just makes the audience confuse and takes everyone off the tracks
You're spot on. Another thing I love about Ep2 is that they choose to return to the game. That element of choice makes them responsible for all the actions that follow (as opposed to "You're stuck here, now fight to get out).
Also very cool that they don't vote to leave after the first time. Says so much about the characters.
You must be a good writer. I watch your videos start to finish without wanting to skip anything.
Thrilled to hear it--thank you!
It’s so satisfying when a movie or TV show has twist and turns that genuinely shock the audience. So many movies and shows today play it safe and make for a boring and predictable experience. It’s refreshing when a show or movie can keep me on my toes. I’m currently watching a show that does this incredibly well. Even if I know the outcome in some cases, I have no idea _how_ that outcome will be reached. When I think I do, the show manages to prove me wrong, in a way that feels deserved as well.
What's one recent story you enjoyed that subverted your expectations? Let us know!
Yes.i also nearly finished squid game and its now one of my most favorite stories ever written
@@potatomanboooi3105 It's amazing. I don't want to say anything and risk spoilers, but I loved the show to death.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty o just finished it yesterday
@@potatomanboooi3105 Episode 6 (the marble game) was incredible. I haven't felt so getting since watched The Red Wedding episode of GoT.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty .my heart sank at episode 6
The movie "Cube" is a good example where they manage to pull this type is story off without any flashbacks and with a minimum of character backstory. It's all about the present and that's enough.
For some reason I took a huge liking in how Saint Seiya Omega handled the character of Ikki. Ikki, the Phoenix, is established almsot right from the getgo in Saint Seiya (Knoights of the Zodiac in the West) as an immortal character. Normally this would take a lote of intrigue and suspense away, but Masami Kurumada and later the authors at TOEI animations did a great job in keeping Ikki out of most fights and centering those he did participate not around the questions of survival, but rather emotional stakes.
That said, he pulled a major fight in Omega S2, where he (finally?) met an opponent on par with him. They die, both. Now, I remember my friend and I sitting there, watching the show for the first time and going: "Nah, it's Ikki. He's back up in an episode or two. They need him for the final fight." (which was then just a few episodes away). But Ikki didn't come back. When the show reached it's second to last (I think) episode we accepted that somehow Ikki died. As we never got any confirmation of what actually caused his immortality, we had some theories on how this could've happened. We accepted his death.
Then the Antagonist STOPPED THE TIME. Like, of the whole universe. Everythings dead by default, but the antagonist and the main character, because the antagonist wanted to fight him. In in that moment, when everything is factually dead, because time is no more (they worked towards that theme pretty well, too), Ikki raises from the rubble, gave some of his power to the MC and just walks aways casually. We were mind-blown. Not also did the writers trick us into believing in the death of an immortal character, they also made it so that his immortality had a huge impact when it showed again. Because, again, even he shouldn't be able to move. In terms of the show he surpassed the status of a god. I don't think I've seen many shows or read many books that subverted my expectations so well.
Oh, also Thunderbolt Fanatsy S3, when one of the characters switches sides. That was pretty unexpected, given how the character was portrayed up til then and I just can't wait for Season 4.
1:35 TBH whatever can SCARE GHOSTS is probably not something you want to see in person.
It's just a tiny little one, but I love when the dragon in Shrek is a girl dragon. I guess that's more than subverting expectations, it's subverting a cliche.
Brillant video! Only on thing, I disagree about flashbacks bein allways wrong in a movie. Sometimes it´s the only way to show somthing. Specially, if that flashback gives the audience a new perspective, and makes them afraid of what´s going to happen. You can show the audience something that the main characters doesn´t know or even suspect.You make the audience want to shout to the good ones: watch out. But they can´t. Flashback, can also be an whole story that completes the main story. Just my point of view. Thanks for you videos I am learning a lot.
@@deanjustdean7818 Thanks for your answer. I´ll read your books. Gonna make a Desiderata, at the Public library, here in San Sebastián, Spain. With a bit of luck, after I read it, they´ll put on the reconmend zone. Keep on the good work!
Too bad the detective subplot didn't really go anywhere meaningful, just a bit of "behind the scenes" facility exposition.
Thankfully the actor potraying the detective has been already cast in season 2 so maybe this story will get some better outcome.
“Subverting expectations” is often just a fancy way to say, “disappointing the audience.”
Not even close. If done right, the subversion should be better than the expectation. It should be shocking, but still make sense given the context. This way it feels deserved, as opposed to just throwing in random nonsense for the sake of being unpredictable.
@@blueflare3848 Yes. Sadly, in Star Wars it was done extremely badly.
3 things Brandon. What is your book about? What genres do you write? Why should I buy your book, when you don't even talk about it?
It's interesting to note the old man is the only side-character of importance that we didn't get to follow. It's one of those things where you understand why by the end of the series but in the moment you don't notice his absence because the other character stories are done so well.
The main character does run into the old man outside the games. I think that small scene is enough to convince the audience he is just a regular person and contestant like everyone else in the games.
I think they did a great job in just taking your interest away from the character you should distrust (which a lot of East Asian shows do well, actually). They show you the old man as something out of the ordinary right from the start, they even focus the main character on it. This I think is the main reason why we never distrust him in anyway. Because the MC doesn't. The writers did a great job in channeling the viewers emotions and expectations, so much that I consider the twist in Squid Game on par with those in Thunderbolt Fantasy S2&3. You easily could've seen through it right from the start. But you couldn't, because of how the makers choose to tell the story. They gave you all of the hints you needed, but in a way taht seemed insignificant - to the character you follow. They could've said to you "He's the bad guy" and you wouldn't believe it until the end - because the MC didn't.
The twist itself isn't actually that new (not even in western media, where it is pulled less often), but the way they hid it was genious.
Andor was an excellent show that subverted many expectations. Based on Rogue One, we know Cassian Andor's fate. What story can be told that is going to be remotely interesting. Answer: a very good one. The writers dispensed with light sabers, the Force, Jedi and Sith, and took the story to an everyman level. How do you respond to a world that is slowly being remade by a repressive regime, and all you know to do it to squeak by on the fringes by stealing. Bit by bit, and story by story, we are carried forward, sometimes in a very linear fashion, and then we are treated to time jumps. What was an ancillary point in an episode one to two back assumes great significance in the current episode. This is a show in which all the characters are caught up in the sweep of societal change, and none, want to go. But go they must, and for right and wrong choices, we see the consequences of their actions. This was a wonderfully written and wonderfully acted show. It has to be one few times when a character saying, "I can't swim" slams you in the gut.
My Favorite is in Terminator 2. Subverting that nightmarish killing machine and turning it into a friend, father and savior figure!
The Cabin in the Woods! Although it’s probly as much meta/self-referential genre satire as it is subversion?
I think this is your best video yet!! (or at least the most helpful to me). My mum AKA most ruthless beta reader/critic says I need more of this and you have just given me the simple explanation to fulfill it! To answer your Q prob the best one I've seen lately is the classic Jamie Lannister losing his hand! But Martin is truly the king of this and does it so so well so often!
Glad this helped! And yeah, GoT (especially the early seasons) did an amazing job subverting expectations. Jamie having to overcome his lost hand made his character much more interesting because he had to struggle and redefine himself.
Make the subversion better then our expectation
Exactly.
Oh, what? Only 375 views? I was convinced I was watching one of those 100k+ channels. Glad to be an early bird on this.
Haha thanks man! Please share the video if you don't mind
I love this episode, it’s a great example of subverted expectations, as the metaphorical “Hell” isn’t the Squid Game, it’s the real world, and (spoilers) each character who is focused on in the outside world takes an action in this episode which is later echoed in their death
The main reason "The Last Jedi" became my favorite "Star Wars" movie is that Rian Johnson repeatedly subverted expectations. He was pretty much handed all the plot elements from both "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" and used them all -- except at each turn he said, "Nope!" to the viewer's expectations. (NOTE: I wrote this just before you used the "throne room" scene as an example of bad subversion.)
People that only saw squid game:
O: O: O: !!!!!
People that saw Kaiji before seeing squid game:
|: |: |:
I hate flashbacks too. But I found myself enraptured by Blue Eye Samurai’s use of flashbacks, especially the fifth episode of season one. Why does that work so well?
While it wouldn’t count as recent, GoT is a great example, for me, of how subversion can be extremely powerful. I have been an avid reader of Sci-fi and fantasy since the 1960s, but for the ten years before I read GoT I had gotten very bored with these genres, and really fiction in general, because I just wasn’t finding anything that drew me in the way stories had before. What I kept running into was more and more of the same stale garbage rehashed. Then I picked up GoT, and the subversion is absolutely what grabbed me a pulled me in. I couldn’t wait for the next books to come out, and then the TV episodes. I only wish Martin had finished the books, or the original series writers had stayed on and done the last couple of seasons. Such a tragic waste of a good story.
The tug o war episode ruined the whole story.
That was the point where everyone (including the characters) knew that at some point they'd have to kill eachother until there was a last one standing. Once that happened the ability to leave by majority vote basically showed us that everyone, even our MC, were willing to kill friends and comrades for money and everything began to feel fake.
The relationship with the MC and the love interest was pointless because they knew they were consenting to kill eachother eventually (I know that's not what happened but it was an unspoken agreement). Anyone who wanted to leave after it was revealed they would be killing eachother were now trapped by the majority who wanted to play (including MC).
Characters were chastised for killing people when everyone was. (Felt like team rocket for being evil by catching pokemon in nets rather than beating them up and using a magic ball).
I couldn't find myself empathetic to any character in the story after that episode.
I think squid game would have been better if the games were not piting people against eachother and were set in a way that suggested "everybody can be a winner if you play well enough"
Because they chose the battle royal route the notion of an escape clause made every character
1. Willing to kill for money
2. A victim of their own choice and hard to care about.
A rule of subverting expectations is that it must make sense/have foundation.
I dont think that Squid Game is a good example, because after they come back they all get killed and never reconsider that they can just escape, even thought they really have the means to exit. It was not well developed after they return at all. And the finale is also really dumb and makes that one voting scene make even less sense
... but I hated the twist ending of Squid Game. It was just a plot twist for the sake of it that didn't make much sense and raised a ton of questions and issues that don't make sense in hindsight.
I couldn't finish squid games. It just hit to hard.
Do you have any tips on how to provide character backstory without flashbacks? I’m trying to write a story about two people stuck in space that is post apocalyptic.
I’m struggling with how to create backstory’s for them, I’ve seen plenty of videos saying “show don’t tell” but I have no idea how else to “show” who these characters are besides flashbacks.
That's a good idea for a video. I generally dislike flashbacks, and I never use them in my own stories. Usually I will hint at the past through character actions/habits or have them discuss the past in conversation.
Anything specific you'd like me to cover in such a video?
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty That’s a great idea. My one thing I am struggling with, is I am trying to make sure my story doesn’t fall into the “and then” trope which I know generally means you have something pretty boring.
I want to be able to make my story extremely character driven, and flesh out who these two are without it being a snooze fest basically. But the idea and concept of these guys stuck in space after the apocalypse, I just don’t know how to do it without using a flashback other then them giving an exposition dump.
But when I do it through the eyes and have the characters explain what happened, it comes across as boring and everyone says “show don’t tell.” So I’m not sure how to progress the story forward.
How about them telling each other their backstories, but with lies and omissions. They can call each others bluffs or slowly open up to each other or whatever and reveal more details or more truthful versions later on. You might even reveal a hidden connection between them. A bit clichee-ish, but it gives you the opportunity to make the backstory telling part of the actual plot.
Another Korean Netflix show that just kept me guessing was Hellbound. With Squid Games there was hope things would go a certain way. In Hellbound, you are clueless as to what is going to happen. Every time you think something is going to go a certain way, it doesn't. Even the ending, might have been the after credits, again flips it on you. A good watch.
Love love love Squid Games!
SQUID GAMES‼️
Thanks for watching!
this is a very good video!!
Thanks!
Finally a video thank you.i think the start of my story had a good subversion.like im starting the develop the beginning more now that i have the full idea and i ser up a rainy day and people without cloaks waiting under a roofed area complaining about their clothes that got hung up getting wet now.the protagonist walks in to the scene offerinf them 2 free cloaks but asked for money so she could pay for a ride for her and her friend home once the deed was done she rushed to the nearest pub and bought 2 drinks 1 for her and q for her friend and she laughed at the 2 guys that were long gone for giving her money.i wanted to setup the protagonist to be a smart manipulative and selfish person that was desperate for money to get to her goal
Overall, subverting expectations is probably a good thing... "creative disruption", etc. But the subversion has to bring something to the table, that makes the story better.
Good subverted expectations: The Mask (Jim Carrey), the frumpy, less sophisticated girl turns out to be the villain, and the beautiful sophisticated girl turns out to be good. Payoff: surprise, and audience sees that not judging people on their looks cuts both ways.
Bad subversion: Star Wars, the Force Awakens... audience never expects to see Han Solo killed off, in a death that achieves nothing. Payoff? Nothing. A big "f.u." to fans who loved this character. Nobody saved or grows or redeemed by this death.
Ending (partial) spoilers for Das Boot, Cube, Cabin in the Woods, and It Comes At Night inbound.
Favorite? Hmm. One of them is probably the ending of Das Boot. It just drove its point home exceptionally well. Similar with Cube; it makes a point but keeps you thinking. Both cases are downers that really work *because* they tie-in to the message so well.
Not-so-favorites are when movies, often horror, try to be clever and it falls flat. Cabin in the Woods started okay, but got ungodly boring with the "twist". I just didn't care about any of it after that. Or It Comes At Night, which was probably yet another "paranoia is the real enemy" stories, but the events make the paranoia quite sensible. You also keep expecting to learn more to make the title make sense, but it's like "oh. paranoia bad. Even though it's rational. Okay."
I'm still irked about the fact that Alice in Borderlands flew under the radar for most people, because it came out at the same time - Alice only did the *subverting expectations* about a million times better than Squid Game.
Loved AiB. Have you played the Zero Escape video games? They're phenomenal, especially Virtue's Last Reward.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I have not. But thanks, I checked it out and it seems like something right down my alley. And they happen to be on sale on steam right now lol
Thanks for the tip!
Some may hate this movie but league of extraordinary gentlemen. The man who forms the league is actually the villain they seek and he used them to get the power of the league for himself.
Was not expecting Zero Escape to be mentioned here, that was a nice treat.
I didn’t like End Game’s killing off Thanos in the beginning. It felt like a basketball player set up a slam dunk only to have his teammate catch it, fall past the out-of-bounds, land on the wooden floor cradling the basketball, and then get up to yell touchdown. If I had a chance to rewrite that movie, I’d make the epic, expected battle, and aim for an interesting, unique, and meaningful way to conclude that showdown.
But that diminishes the whole point. They'd had the epic, expected battle. Thanos had won. And he'd made sure there was no way for them to reverse it. He literally had nothing left to fight for, nor any reason to. More to the point, if they'd done what you'd suggested, then you'd have had this epic battle which would have meant absolutely nothing. They'd have won and found out it didn't matter. Or maybe they would have lost, but would have kept assuming that defeating Thanos would have provided a way to save everyone. Going in there, effortlessly kicking ass, and finding out it made no difference set up the characterization seen later in the film. Thor and Hawkeye broke. Iron Man gave up and tried to find some meaning in what was left. Captain America was being Captain America and trying to assist normal people caught up in the tragedy, and so on.
And GOT did that so often that you could foresee the outcome OF EVERY EVENT. The writing deliberately made you fall in love with a character just so they can subvert expectations by *predictably* killing them off. No, Brandon I cannot agree. Game of Thrones was done so badly that I was instantly aware that one doesn't even need to know how to write to hit it big. I said it before, the only thing you need to get published and make tons of cash is to put two Rs in the middle of your name.
I DO NOT like when expectation set-ups are subverted, like in GOT. To me those are just extreme plot twists that make all the time you've invested in a story up to that point worthless.
I like when stories follow their own arc without jerking you around.
You did not subvert my expectations with meaning or depth in this video by trashing Game of Thrones and The Last Jedi.
This is not to say that Game of Thrones was amazing in its final season, but I think it's "interesting" that largely the backlash to subverting expectations in both of these stories is centered heavily on asking the audience to accept that certain characters are not _inherently_ special.
When people complain that Dany or Jon didn't "fulfill their birthright" for example, or that "Rey can't be nobody that doesn't make any 'sense'" that demonstrates what they value and begs the question of why they find value in those things.
I also find it a little funny the way you warn you're going to spoil Squid Game, when you are only talking vaguely about two episodes and then go onto massively spoil a bunch of other things unrelated to Squid Game without any warning. Or that you didn't demonstrate any depth at all to the subversions in Endgame, it's mostly "It was different, and I liked it."
I feel like anybody who grew up watching saturday morning superhero cartoons, with big multi-episode event arcs, _absolutely_ expected a time travel story. The only subversion is in the way they handle time travel, attempting to preserve the consequencces of what Thanos had done on some level. A ripple effect that has largely functioned as dead weight, and thus a missed opportunity in subsequent properties. Like how nobody in Peter Parkers inner circle grew by five years and moved on without him, but I digress. Yes, it was unexpected when Thanos died at the start... so?
I could be wrong, but you may also be misreading the protagonist in Squid Game. I don't think it's supposed to be he ruins his life with a "gambling addiction" I believe it's supposed to set up the themes and metaphors of the show, that this guy is so desperate for money that he will play dangerous games in the extremely vain hope of getting enough of it to make his family happy. A hope of statistical futility.
nice vid
Thanks!