I see gold bars (Perth Mint, etc) all the time in local sales posts. Almost every time I reply with "I'm interested and would like to know if I can test with a precious metals verifier", which mostly stops the suspicious sellers immediately. From super chatty to radio silence. Definitely better to avoid when there is any doubt.
I bought a bunch of them on ebay, they all got good rating, if they sell fake bar then somebody would of gave them a negative, most of my gold are in the 100k feedback rating, that is when u know that they are real.
The assay cards just create another expense that never existed before. I like the idea of dissolving gold in aqua regia and precipitating it into a brown powder to keep in a jar. Less likely anybody would be interested in stealing it if they don't even know it is there. I can always melt it when selling it if they prefer. Little plastic plant decoration..
That's one of the best things about coins. They have a known size and weight which can't be replicated by counterfeits. Same idea you were showing here with the bars.
No gold bars for me, at least yet. For that matter I only have a handful of silver bars and the majority of those are ten ouncers. Thanks for the video SD, keep stacking!
This is a great video! I have learned the hard way based on purchasing and selling experience that if you ever purchase gold bars/coins, stay away from assay carded gold bars and 22K/91.67% gold coins (not financial advice, but just a preference based on experience). Here in Canada, 22K/91.67% gold coins (e.g. American Eagle and South African Krugerrand) demand a selling price below spot just because it's 22K/91.67% gold, and gold bars that have been opened from their original assay card plastic packaging demands a selling price below spot as well. I have a personal preference of being able to physically hold gold, so assay carded gold (in my opinion) is just a marketing gig to justify selling premiums and ironically if you open them from their packaging, you stand to lose selling points if you decide to sell them to your local gold dealer/buyer. Simple is always better; just go ahead and buy widely recognized 24K/9999 fine gold coins (RCM Canadian Maple Leaf for example, preferably the DNA version for added security and peace of mind).
Last year I traded all my RMC bars for maples straight trade to a local coin shop. After seeing so many fake 1oz. Bars online I’ve moved away from them and only have gold coins.
So nice and all, but... 1. Specific gravity is effectively the same thing as density, which is what can be fooled by using something with a similar weight like tungston, so... little reason to be sure it is gold then. 2. You can be sure it's real gold by buying it directly from the mint. 3. Usually bars are sold where I live without any sort of packaging to begin with.
Great video. Have a look at Sigmascopes Type B which would be the ultimate test to know whether bars in plastic are authentic. They go for abouk 8k USD and will tell you the conductivity of the metal-which ultimately determines whether it is gold, copper or tungsten. Also, the XRF tool used is great, yet test should run until data on the right side, the "differential" goes down and becomes stable. In the case presented in the video test was done for 1.5 seconds with a 2+ differential-there is a lot of room for change in data there. Reply if you want a free test. All the best.
At my shop I do buy assayed bars but I bust them out of the package and cut them in half they have to agree to this before I do. I only pay right at spot for them anyway. You won't believe how many I have found to have another piece of metal in the middle.
I bought 250k worth of gold and silver last year alone. And did so for the last 7 years at my business. Once removed from Assay card. They do NOT lose value.. I want them loose preferably so I can test dimensions and exact weight.
They dont really lose value but if you look at what they tend to sell for most of the time it seems like they don't carry as much of the premium after the card is opened. Which is fine for me.
Does the value really go down though? JMBullion pays the same for generic 1 oz gold in any condition. Which is basically spot. I always cut mine out of the cards.
I did a recent video on a 2014 Libertad (silver) and had the same issue with the standard Sigma. It measured on the scale but was out of the brackets by a few ticks. Very curious. I did 5 other tests on it that all passed and I came to the conclusion that it was real. Maybe the mixture was off a bit or they only had .996 or .997. Not really sure why the standard Sigma didn't work...although I know they are not perfect. They are verifiers, not guaranteers 😀Great video SD.
My local coin shop said they don't ike seeing pamp or Perth. They said because they are so popular they are faked alot. So he pays under spot for them if at all. On the other hand he said he liked my Geiger bar and would pay spot for that any day
How about that several tons of copper infused gold plated gold that got discovered a few years ago from China? It was held as collateral for years and only discovered after the collateral was called and tested.
Great video very informative. I had an issue with silver also even on the sigma (basic one) an older trade unit. Only item I have cut in half and was real. Lol
The price of coins is affected by factors other that the amount of gold and are generally more expensive as they reflect the subjective value as a collector item rather than just the pure gold weight
I began buying this year At first I was told to buy bars because of lower premium but then I found that it would be hard to sell. I am selling my bars ack to the dealer but it is very slow on their end.
WOW, that is scary Sir, I'm happy for you that it worked out well. Is there a poor's man's way to check Gold? IDK, just asking, I purchase fractional Gold coins, the meters you tested your Gold Bar with are not cheap, but I do purchase from reputable dealers online, hopefully they are not ripping me off and I should still check some how. Really Great Info Video, really appreciated. Thank You Sir.
I dislike Gold for this very reason. Too much money in one investment that may go bad. If this was a silver bar/coin and you got it from a dealer who was scamming/lazy/incompetent. You are only out 30 some dollars (1oz). If you do this with gold you are out thousands of dollars. My local coin shop doesn't always catch everything (morgan dollars) so there is some risk no matter what.
If it's 1 deal ,you're right. But I'm assuming you're a stacker ,so let's say you buy a couple hundred oz of fake silver over a 2-3 year period then you're kinda in the same boat. So gold vs silver doesn't matter as much as its more of a you should be testing everything no matter what or who sells it to you
Also, after you get over 500 ounces of silver it gets too heavy to carry. My goal is to be able to carry my entire stash in an airline carry-on case. That means most of the value has to be gold.
Great video…I am always learning something new on your channel,great information. I do have a quick question? Should I invest into a Sigma metalytics pro machine as well? I actually already invested in the standard sigma metalytics verifier you showed in the beginning, where you just set the coin on top and run. I know the pro runs approximately almost $900 more. Is the standard one not that accurate? Again great videos,any information would be appreciated,God bless.
I duck with Perth mint stuff. All the specs are on the website and they are here in Australia so shipping is easier for me.. plus their product is just way better
It's funny how the assay card around the bar, is actually an impediment to independent assay, of the bar. Really, in a world of counterfeiters, a card today is a meaningless artifact of a day when you could trust things based on someone's word. So instead of the anachronistic assay card, perhaps they should provide nothing more than a plastic capsule for their gold bars. That way, as the gold goes through it's never ending life, as an investment metal, you can get at the gold to test it (specific gravity being the definitive proof).
I have tried to bend a 1oz bar from Argo and Valcambi. To my surprise. It’s not easy to bend it by using fingers. I even put it in between the door frame and door and it took quite a bit of force to bend it. I got it from SD Bullion, so I don’t think they sells fake gold plated tungsten bars. Anyone has any different experience with trying to bend it?
If You have a Local Bullion Dealer I would suggest You buy Your Gold Bars and Coins there... I Don't buy Pretty Coins because they have Higher Premiums and You will NOT get any more for them when You go to sell them...
Can one get the Tare Weight from a same thickness of plastic cut to the same dimensions? Get the plastic thickness from where there's only printing and divide by two? That can also be used as a Tare for measuring the thickness in the plastic.
All through the video and even after or while or to do all these tests, you haven't opened the coin or bar from their packages. What's so expensive or whatever about that? You won't even open or touch and keep them like that for life? What's the use then?
I always buy from reputable sellers. If the price is too good to be true, then its fake gold. For economic reasons, I am only able to buy the fractional gold bars; 10 gram in size is what I'm comfortable buying. I only buy the PAMP Suisse bars; usually from APMEX, JM Bullion or Bullion Exchanges out of New York... and I also have some ACRE Gold 10 gram bars. I've never been burned by any of these vendors and my stack keeps growing. Bars test as 100% authentic all the time.
Australia doesn’t sell gold from other countries we have our own gold and unless you buy directly from Australian Perth mint and you have registered with them then you can’t purchase from them as they keep a registered buyer so people can confirm that they are buying the real gold bar
You should be fine. As long as the brand of the gold bar is recognizable, such as PAMP or Valcambi, you should be fine. But as always, just as Silver Dragons has said, always check your bullion, preferably with a Sigma Metalytics Pro if you have access to one.
you have nothing to worry about. They are a reputable dealer. It doesn't matter what it is- pamp, valcambi, credit suisse, rand, perth, canada- whatever----they are reputable and it will be totally legit. Save the receipt with the serial number, and that will help when you sell it. I save all of mine. That way---I can show someone "I bought this rand bar from this dealer- the serial number is here- the bar is here- and it helps---then if they want to test it you can show it to the dealer with the buyer for further proof its legit. the more you can show the buyer that its legit the easier it is to sell. I"ve never ever had an issue selling a gold bar----but I stick with name brands.
Yep 100% let the kids deal with the headache of selling it and worrying if it's real or fake when the time comes LOL I love essay cards as long as they're real first gold bar was a pamp fake
@@totopullingbackcurtain4445 Thanks Brother! I look forward to stacking more in the future. When I get a delivery it's like being a kid, again, at Christmas! 🎄 🤪😄
@@Kayl3ss I hear that. I have been stacking since 2008 and I still feel that way when I get a new coin. Just from personal experience, I would suggest only buying sovereign i.e. government minted gold coins. Fractional or full oz. Gold eagle, Phil harmonic, krugerand, maple leaf etc. And for silver mostly generic. When I went through a divorce I had to sell some. The generic gold bars and rounds were hard to sell. Some dealers didn't even want them. But with silver, the generic had the lowest spread and they had no trouble buying them. Hope that helps you some. Have fun.
@@totopullingbackcurtain4445 Thanks for the tip! So far I have a little over 12oz of gold and about 160 oz silver. I have two coins. A Buffalo and an America eagle. Most of my gold is in gold bars...PAMP, Credit Suisse, Valcambi, Perth Mint, and Royal Mint all bars. That isn't bad right?🤔
@@Kayl3ss they should be ok. They are all from reputable refiners. Pamp is the only one that may be an issue. Alot of fake pamp 1 oz bars. But if you bought them from the reputable dealers you mentioned earlier then you will totally be fine.
Gold is always so tiny in my budget atm. At what point do I transition from silver to gold? I think I've seen 1/10 fractional that are little shamrock rounds, would those be more advantageous then 5oz silver bars?
Transition when your silver starts to take up to much space. I still buy silver mostly super rare numismatic stuff but gold is much better. It doesn't tarnish and you can have tens of thousands of dollars in your pocket good luck doing that with silver.
You transition when the G/S ratio drops below 70. Then you find a local dealer who will trade your silver for their gold. That's my plan. I've got about 650 oz in silver--most of that is 100 oz and 1 kilo in .9999 silver. I bought most of my silver when the ratio was over 85, so when it drops below 70, I'll trade my silver and get about 20% more gold than if I had bought gold originally--with no out of pocket cash for the gold. But with gold's recent dips below $1650/oz, I did buy some 1/4 oz gold coins.
the problem with 1/10 are the premiums are so incredibly high that you are paying over 2000 oz if you buy 10 of them. When you go to sell them they rarely pay you anywhere near that premium---they will pay spot or a little above. I would keep buying gold/silver or platinum with the LOWEST premium----from a trusted dealer and as your budget situation changes, you can buy more expensive stuff. Kruggerands have typically had a little lower premium, as have gold bars- but all premiums are high. Good luck!--I hope this helps.
The gold is same value - spot price of the weight. The premium, however, meaning design, limited mintage, more complex security features etc and- for bars - the assay card - isn't. You're not loosing any value of the metal when unboxing, but the additional premium you could potentially gain back when selling is lost.
Assurances...... the gold bar is put into the packaging by the mint...... then sealed..... the packaging is supposed to be tamper-proof.....so the mint gives the buyer their assurance that the gold bar is genuine. Edit: they have the serial number and the assayers signature on the card etc. However, IF someone removes the gold bar from the packaging..... there is no way of knowing if the gold bar has been swapped out for a fake unless you get it tested....... I get what you are saying, genuine gold is gold........ but what I have explained is how the Assay card system is supposed to work.
@@stackem_high8314 And....where exactly did I say the Assayer would do anything about a fake gold bar? But, your reply was more about you being a smarta*se c*nt than anything else.... wasn't it?
"An investment in knowledge pays the best dividends" thank U and Ben Franklin for this free lesson. U may not be outta the woods yet so if this proves fake ultimately, I will send U $20 Professor Dragon. Class DISMISSED 🏫
It's because of how much of a pain in the butt gold bars in the assay are to test that I've avoided them. I'd rather pay more for something that's easier to test and more recognizable. Thanks!
What you have is a thick coated Tungsten bar . I bought one of these did same tests same results. Tried to bend it would not bend at all. Drilled on center and sure enough was Tungsten. Specific gravity of Tungsten and Gold within .01% very difficult to distinguish magnetically and or dimensionally. Have to bend bar. If it bends easily it’s gold. If it’s solid it’s Tungsten. I’m willing to bet it’s Tungsten.
A ping sound test should help in determining if it's gold or plated tungsten. The real bar will have a nice gold gingle vs a fake tungsten it will have a thud or no sound at all.
Yes tested on Sigma Pro. Even had bar xRF tested. Got exact same results as you did. Bought off EBay. Seller allowed my LCS to do a bend test. You must do bend test 2 directions. Long end bend and diagonal bend. Only way to be sure is drill bar on center. We broke a drill bit trying to drill through after trying bend test. I was able to return for full refund.
@@leonidas953 There are repositories out there that deal with thicker bars and they use sound to test for plating. Whether it is a ultrasonic thickness gauge or an ultrasound scanner it is the only sure proof way to determine if there are inserts inside other than drilling. With a thinner bar you can still use the concept of sound without any gauge or scanner.
I sold three ounces of gold during the height of the pandemic. I had a Canadian Gold Maple, An English coin and a Canadian .9999 bar in an assay card. They gave me spot on the two coins and barely looked at them. The bar they broke out of the case and did a number of tests on it and I got Spot - $100 on the bar. Just something to think about if your looking to buy gold.
Great video, thank you for the information. If I were in your position, though, I think I'd go ahead and sell it myself rather than passing it onto my kids. Since you know all of the things to prove it is gold now, you have a better chance of getting a fair return on it. If you pass it down, what if they need/or want to sell it, but you're not able to share that info with them for whatever reason? They may end up getting undercut for it. Better that you sell it to ensure you're getting the most out of it. It's a beautiful bar, but I personally wouldn't trust my kids with it. But anyway that's just my take on it. Very informative, thanks again.
It's very easy for forgers to forge the cardboard the metals in ,,if they can forge the metal they can forge the card ,,only buy from reputable dealers 🤔
An XRF can absolutely penetrate into a material. I work in the mining industry. we use XRF extensively. We expect up to 10mm of penetration into a rock sample.
They don’t want you to open it because it’s fake.if it’s real gold by taking it out the packaging it won’t devalue it it’s all ways the price of the value of gold at that time.
This video definitely answered several questions I've had regarding why 1 ounce gold bars have very, very low premiums. I was so tempted to buy a few welk-known bars, but now I know why I wouldn't. Thank-you for the thorough explanation. I'll stay with Eagles, Buffaloes and Maple Leafs.
Anything and everything can be faked, even coins. You are better off getting a metal analyzer/verifier like he has if you are serious about accumulating precious metals. Yes, it will cost you $1,200 and up but if it saves you from one mistake then you are ahead.
As soon you said that gold value decreases when you take it out of its package, I just stop watching the video because one of the first things you said was 🐂💩
I stay away from Gold for the reasons you discussed to much fake and the equipment to test is expensive. And the ROI ( return on Investment).is not worth the risk over silver IMO.
I see gold bars (Perth Mint, etc) all the time in local sales posts. Almost every time I reply with "I'm interested and would like to know if I can test with a precious metals verifier", which mostly stops the suspicious sellers immediately. From super chatty to radio silence. Definitely better to avoid when there is any doubt.
smart to test the stuff before you buy no doubt! 🔥🐉
@@SilverDragons47 Would you say online bullion dealers ex. BGASC, Bullion Max, SilverGoldBull are pretty much legit??🤔
@@Kayl3ss APMEX, JM…yes, legit.
@@JoeGiz64 Thanks bro. I don't buy from those guys though but I've heard my guys are pretty much just as legit
I bought a bunch of them on ebay, they all got good rating, if they sell fake bar then somebody would of gave them a negative, most of my gold are in the 100k feedback rating, that is when u know that they are real.
I'm new to collecting gold and silver. I've been sticking to APMEX. It's not the cheapest. But I buy from the website, I know it 100% legit.
Congrats on your tungsten bar purchase.
The assay cards just create another expense that never existed before.
I like the idea of dissolving gold in aqua regia and precipitating it into a brown powder to keep in a jar. Less likely anybody would be interested in stealing it if they don't even know it is there.
I can always melt it when selling it if they prefer. Little plastic plant decoration..
That's one of the best things about coins. They have a known size and weight which can't be replicated by counterfeits.
Same idea you were showing here with the bars.
Take a look at the somewhat-recent Cook Islands gold coin scandal. Don't fall for that urban legend about coins being immune to forgery.
They can now silver dragons covered it
I live in Perth. going to the mint is awesome.
No gold bars for me, at least yet. For that matter I only have a handful of silver bars and the majority of those are ten ouncers. Thanks for the video SD, keep stacking!
This is a great video! I have learned the hard way based on purchasing and selling experience that if you ever purchase gold bars/coins, stay away from assay carded gold bars and 22K/91.67% gold coins (not financial advice, but just a preference based on experience).
Here in Canada, 22K/91.67% gold coins (e.g. American Eagle and South African Krugerrand) demand a selling price below spot just because it's 22K/91.67% gold, and gold bars that have been opened from their original assay card plastic packaging demands a selling price below spot as well.
I have a personal preference of being able to physically hold gold, so assay carded gold (in my opinion) is just a marketing gig to justify selling premiums and ironically if you open them from their packaging, you stand to lose selling points if you decide to sell them to your local gold dealer/buyer.
Simple is always better; just go ahead and buy widely recognized 24K/9999 fine gold coins (RCM Canadian Maple Leaf for example, preferably the DNA version for added security and peace of mind).
Last year I traded all my RMC bars for maples straight trade to a local coin shop. After seeing so many fake 1oz. Bars online I’ve moved away from them and only have gold coins.
This is an excellent video. Thorough, concise, and well explained. Great job and thank you for the valuable information.👏✌️🦅
thank you very much! 🔥🐉
So nice and all, but...
1. Specific gravity is effectively the same thing as density, which is what can be fooled by using something with a similar weight like tungston, so... little reason to be sure it is gold then.
2. You can be sure it's real gold by buying it directly from the mint.
3. Usually bars are sold where I live without any sort of packaging to begin with.
Great video. Have a look at Sigmascopes Type B which would be the ultimate test to know whether bars in plastic are authentic. They go for abouk 8k USD and will tell you the conductivity of the metal-which ultimately determines whether it is gold, copper or tungsten.
Also, the XRF tool used is great, yet test should run until data on the right side, the "differential" goes down and becomes stable. In the case presented in the video test was done for 1.5 seconds with a 2+ differential-there is a lot of room for change in data there. Reply if you want a free test.
All the best.
At my shop I do buy assayed bars but I bust them out of the package and cut them in half they have to agree to this before I do. I only pay right at spot for them anyway. You won't believe how many I have found to have another piece of metal in the middle.
Sad so many ppl out there scamming hoes
I bought 250k worth of gold and silver last year alone. And did so for the last 7 years at my business.
Once removed from Assay card. They do NOT lose value.. I want them loose preferably so I can test dimensions and exact weight.
Precisely , Gold is GOLD. He is an Amateur 😂😂😂😂
NO ONE GVS A F ABOUT THE FKG ASSAY PLASTIC CARD
Damn can you buy me some gold then lmao I can only get silver 😭😭
They dont really lose value but if you look at what they tend to sell for most of the time it seems like they don't carry as much of the premium after the card is opened. Which is fine for me.
Yea I think he just means it loses the premium value but yes Gold is Gold finger prints and all.
That had me scared and it’s not even mine. Glad it was legit. New subscriber thanks for the information brother.
I like assy bars from Perth. They all come with surveyors numbers on them. I only have a few coins, but I'm coming around to them (no pun intended).
I don't understand how taking a gold bar out of the assay card will make the value of the gold go down. Or am I mistaken?
Better ask a bank or places where you can sale your gold.. not this guy
Does the value really go down though? JMBullion pays the same for generic 1 oz gold in any condition. Which is basically spot.
I always cut mine out of the cards.
Measure the electrical impedance of a coil with the bar or coin inside. Compare the readings to a identical you know is good.
I did a recent video on a 2014 Libertad (silver) and had the same issue with the standard Sigma. It measured on the scale but was out of the brackets by a few ticks. Very curious. I did 5 other tests on it that all passed and I came to the conclusion that it was real. Maybe the mixture was off a bit or they only had .996 or .997. Not really sure why the standard Sigma didn't work...although I know they are not perfect. They are verifiers, not guaranteers 😀Great video SD.
yes indeed verifiers not a guaranteed thing 👍🏽🔥🐉
My local coin shop said they don't ike seeing pamp or Perth. They said because they are so popular they are faked alot. So he pays under spot for them if at all. On the other hand he said he liked my Geiger bar and would pay spot for that any day
How about that several tons of copper infused gold plated gold that got discovered a few years ago from China? It was held as collateral for years and only discovered after the collateral was called and tested.
Not surprised coming from china
Another reason why I only stack gold coins….. way less of a headache and worth the premium
Great video very informative. I had an issue with silver also even on the sigma (basic one) an older trade unit. Only item I have cut in half and was real. Lol
The price of coins is affected by factors other that the amount of gold and are generally more expensive as they reflect the subjective value as a collector item rather than just the pure gold weight
I began buying this year At first I was told to buy bars because of lower premium but then I found that it would be hard to sell. I am selling my bars ack to the dealer but it is very slow on their end.
It's not an assay card because it doesn't have an assayer's signature on it.
WOW, that is scary Sir, I'm happy for you that it worked out well. Is there a poor's man's way to check Gold? IDK, just asking, I purchase fractional Gold coins, the meters you tested your Gold Bar with are not cheap, but I do purchase from reputable dealers online, hopefully they are not ripping me off and I should still check some how. Really Great Info Video, really appreciated. Thank You Sir.
Coins you just ping test. The pocket ping tester is good and paired with an app it is pretty hard to fool and pretty cheap.
Send it to professional grading service.. that certifies it, and preserves it
Then you know the one you sent was real, still cant be sure about the one you get back... ;P
I dislike Gold for this very reason. Too much money in one investment that may go bad. If this was a silver bar/coin and you got it from a dealer who was scamming/lazy/incompetent. You are only out 30 some dollars (1oz). If you do this with gold you are out thousands of dollars. My local coin shop doesn't always catch everything (morgan dollars) so there is some risk no matter what.
yeah very true! 🔥🐉
If it's 1 deal ,you're right. But I'm assuming you're a stacker ,so let's say you buy a couple hundred oz of fake silver over a 2-3 year period then you're kinda in the same boat. So gold vs silver doesn't matter as much as its more of a you should be testing everything no matter what or who sells it to you
Also, after you get over 500 ounces of silver it gets too heavy to carry. My goal is to be able to carry my entire stash in an airline carry-on case. That means most of the value has to be gold.
I just stick to gold sovereign coins - Maples, Buffalos, ASEs, Krugerrands, Philharmonics, Britannias.
Would your machine normally say thin for a bar of that thickness? Because plating is thin...
Great video…I am always learning something new on your channel,great information. I do have a quick question? Should I invest into a
Sigma metalytics pro machine as well? I actually already invested in the standard sigma metalytics verifier you showed in the beginning, where you just set the coin on top and run. I know the pro runs approximately almost $900 more. Is the standard one not that accurate? Again great videos,any information would be appreciated,God bless.
I duck with Perth mint stuff. All the specs are on the website and they are here in Australia so shipping is easier for me.. plus their product is just way better
I only buy from sdbullion or my trusted lcs. That way theres no chance of getting a fake.
It's funny how the assay card around the bar, is actually an impediment to independent assay, of the bar. Really, in a world of counterfeiters, a card today is a meaningless artifact of a day when you could trust things based on someone's word. So instead of the anachronistic assay card, perhaps they should provide nothing more than a plastic capsule for their gold bars. That way, as the gold goes through it's never ending life, as an investment metal, you can get at the gold to test it (specific gravity being the definitive proof).
I have tried to bend a 1oz bar from Argo and Valcambi. To my surprise. It’s not easy to bend it by using fingers. I even put it in between the door frame and door and it took quite a bit of force to bend it. I got it from SD Bullion, so I don’t think they sells fake gold plated tungsten bars. Anyone has any different experience with trying to bend it?
very enlighting demostration
Great advice I agree stick with gold that can be more recognized
Why is there such a wide margin of error when measuring the size of it on that Sigma machine?
If You have a Local Bullion Dealer I would suggest You buy Your Gold Bars and Coins there... I Don't buy Pretty Coins because they have Higher Premiums and You will NOT get any more for them when You go to sell them...
I wish i have so much machine to test gold like you.
Can one get the Tare Weight from a same thickness of plastic cut to the same dimensions? Get the plastic thickness from where there's only printing and divide by two? That can also be used as a Tare for measuring the thickness in the plastic.
Why did you even buy that ?
I like them. However, pawnshops are out. Only reputable gold dealers. Should be numbered.
All through the video and even after or while or to do all these tests, you haven't opened the coin or bar from their packages. What's so expensive or whatever about that? You won't even open or touch and keep them like that for life? What's the use then?
I thought of that danger and got mine from perthmint. I hope they are real.
the cards are flimsy sometimes though, mine the back is has already fallen out and i have to put in another plastic ziplock bag
The simple test to determine if it's fake buy a magnet 🧲 and go to your LCS and before you buy it see if it magnetized if yes leave with no response.
I always buy from reputable sellers. If the price is too good to be true, then its fake gold. For economic reasons, I am only able to buy the fractional gold bars; 10 gram in size is what I'm comfortable buying. I only buy the PAMP Suisse bars; usually from APMEX, JM Bullion or Bullion Exchanges out of New York... and I also have some ACRE Gold 10 gram bars. I've never been burned by any of these vendors and my stack keeps growing.
Bars test as 100% authentic all the time.
Just get it out of the package, gold is gold it doesn’t hurt that much value.
Might as well melt it down
Now a lot of fakes are even being sold in Dubai...gold festival also ...
it shows off to the side because it is plated with 24k gold
Australia doesn’t sell gold from other countries we have our own gold and unless you buy directly from Australian Perth mint and you have registered with them then you can’t purchase from them as they keep a registered buyer so people can confirm that they are buying the real gold bar
That's why I only buy circulated gold, never in an assay card. If I can't hold it in my hand with direct skin contact, I don't want it.
yeah I hear that! 🔥🐉
Well, you can hold it, just take it out of the card.
@@justinholland9844 True. And if the price was a good deal, then a slight drop in value won't matter much.
In fact, you can can to online dealers and buy examples that have already been unpackaged at a slight discount.
Doesnt the XRF measure all the way through?
Damn it I just ordered a random one from JM on the spot price deal 😂
lol it is a good deal hopefully you get a valcambi 🔥🐉
You should be fine. As long as the brand of the gold bar is recognizable, such as PAMP or Valcambi, you should be fine. But as always, just as Silver Dragons has said, always check your bullion, preferably with a Sigma Metalytics Pro if you have access to one.
I did the same thing for a 1/2 oz gold coin.
you have nothing to worry about. They are a reputable dealer. It doesn't matter what it is- pamp, valcambi, credit suisse, rand, perth, canada- whatever----they are reputable and it will be totally legit. Save the receipt with the serial number, and that will help when you sell it. I save all of mine. That way---I can show someone "I bought this rand bar from this dealer- the serial number is here- the bar is here- and it helps---then if they want to test it you can show it to the dealer with the buyer for further proof its legit. the more you can show the buyer that its legit the easier it is to sell. I"ve never ever had an issue selling a gold bar----but I stick with name brands.
So the sigma pro is really better than xrf technology?
Great stuff! Thanks for the info! :)
What if I buy this at sd bullion, is it safe and real?
Thanks for the video
Along time ago a guy named silverbaggins showed me this. 🤑
If you buy from reputable exchanges, you'll be finr
tq for the info..i will make sure im not buying gold bar in assay card
You better sell that bar. Otherwise you will need to start the Golden Dragons channel.
Look, just buy from the reputable dealers and stack away. IF YOU BUY ON EBAY YOU GET WHAT YOU GET!! Good luck with that.
Thanks for the info.
Yep 100% let the kids deal with the headache of selling it and worrying if it's real or fake when the time comes LOL I love essay cards as long as they're real first gold bar was a pamp fake
lol the kids can do whatever they want with it but they will be getting massive stacks in addition 🔥🐉
*assay, kid
@@silkroad1201 lol talk text you didn't even notice that
its probably fake you didn't buy it from a real mint and it doesn't have a hallmark,, open the plastic trash and test it properly.
I've bought from BGASC, SilverGoldBull, and Bullion Max. Should I be good???🤔
All reputable dealers bro. You're good to go
@@totopullingbackcurtain4445 Thanks Brother! I look forward to stacking more in the future. When I get a delivery it's like being a kid, again, at Christmas! 🎄 🤪😄
@@Kayl3ss I hear that. I have been stacking since 2008 and I still feel that way when I get a new coin. Just from personal experience, I would suggest only buying sovereign i.e. government minted gold coins. Fractional or full oz. Gold eagle, Phil harmonic, krugerand, maple leaf etc. And for silver mostly generic. When I went through a divorce I had to sell some. The generic gold bars and rounds were hard to sell. Some dealers didn't even want them. But with silver, the generic had the lowest spread and they had no trouble buying them. Hope that helps you some. Have fun.
@@totopullingbackcurtain4445 Thanks for the tip! So far I have a little over 12oz of gold and about 160 oz silver. I have two coins. A Buffalo and an America eagle. Most of my gold is in gold bars...PAMP, Credit Suisse, Valcambi, Perth Mint, and Royal Mint all bars. That isn't bad right?🤔
@@Kayl3ss they should be ok. They are all from reputable refiners. Pamp is the only one that may be an issue. Alot of fake pamp 1 oz bars. But if you bought them from the reputable dealers you mentioned earlier then you will totally be fine.
Personally , I am SURE this is a fake bar. The sigma machine is safe to test. Even in assay card, WHICH HE SHLD HAVE REMOVED
It seems he is tryinggg to believe that he wasnt scammed. If you are worried. Just REMOVE THE ASSAY , then you can really do accurate tests.
Gold is always so tiny in my budget atm. At what point do I transition from silver to gold?
I think I've seen 1/10 fractional that are little shamrock rounds, would those be more advantageous then 5oz silver bars?
Transition when your silver starts to take up to much space. I still buy silver mostly super rare numismatic stuff but gold is much better. It doesn't tarnish and you can have tens of thousands of dollars in your pocket good luck doing that with silver.
You transition when the G/S ratio drops below 70. Then you find a local dealer who will trade your silver for their gold. That's my plan. I've got about 650 oz in silver--most of that is 100 oz and 1 kilo in .9999 silver. I bought most of my silver when the ratio was over 85, so when it drops below 70, I'll trade my silver and get about 20% more gold than if I had bought gold originally--with no out of pocket cash for the gold. But with gold's recent dips below $1650/oz, I did buy some 1/4 oz gold coins.
the problem with 1/10 are the premiums are so incredibly high that you are paying over 2000 oz if you buy 10 of them. When you go to sell them they rarely pay you anywhere near that premium---they will pay spot or a little above. I would keep buying gold/silver or platinum with the LOWEST premium----from a trusted dealer and as your budget situation changes, you can buy more expensive stuff. Kruggerands have typically had a little lower premium, as have gold bars- but all premiums are high. Good luck!--I hope this helps.
@@mtsaz100 so then silver until I can afford 1oz gold rounds?
@@LuchadorMasque yep
Do you really think the ones keeping the gold price low are going to sell GOLD to you. NOT
dragons are always great.
I stay clear away from chinese gold bars and coins.
How is 1oz of gold less valuable because it's not encased in a piece of plastic?
Because you are competing with brand new examples of what you're selling. If your item is not in the original packaging, the price must reflect that.
The gold is same value - spot price of the weight. The premium, however, meaning design, limited mintage, more complex security features etc and- for bars - the assay card - isn't. You're not loosing any value of the metal when unboxing, but the additional premium you could potentially gain back when selling is lost.
Assurances...... the gold bar is put into the packaging by the mint...... then sealed..... the packaging is supposed to be tamper-proof.....so the mint gives the buyer their assurance that the gold bar is genuine. Edit: they have the serial number and the assayers signature on the card etc.
However, IF someone removes the gold bar from the packaging..... there is no way of knowing if the gold bar has been swapped out for a fake unless you get it tested.......
I get what you are saying, genuine gold is gold........ but what I have explained is how the Assay card system is supposed to work.
When that bar in the assay turns out to be fake do you think that assayer is going to do anything for you? Because they aren't.
@@stackem_high8314 And....where exactly did I say the Assayer would do anything about a fake gold bar?
But, your reply was more about you being a smarta*se c*nt than anything else.... wasn't it?
Am I the only one who got annoyed at the low battery indicator on the second machine?
Liked and subbed Good vid
taking bar out of case reduces value by $2
Good topic
A few months ago I bought a 1oz gold Credit Suisse in an assay card from APMEX. APMEX is pretty trustworthy so hopfully mine is real. 😬😬
why don't they just print the tare weight of the assay card right on the package? Duh!
"An investment in knowledge pays the best dividends" thank U and Ben Franklin for this free lesson. U may not be outta the woods yet so if this proves fake ultimately, I will send U $20 Professor Dragon. Class DISMISSED 🏫
I was having a heart attack for you lol. Man you are on it! Glad this worked out well for you
lol it was such a roller coaster! 🔥🐉
To test for a copper core, hold bar on an angle, and let your magnet roll down it. If the magnet goes slow, it's because of copper causing induction.
what? gold is a similar good conductor as copper, will have the same effect
@@gene9230it will slow down with a gold core but it will not slow down with a thungsten core, as far as I understand
@@ttkddry he is talking about a copper core vs a gold core
It's because of how much of a pain in the butt gold bars in the assay are to test that I've avoided them. I'd rather pay more for something that's easier to test and more recognizable. Thanks!
yeah coins are my go to for sure! 🔥🐉
Precisely!
What you have is a thick coated Tungsten bar . I bought one of these did same tests same results. Tried to bend it would not bend at all. Drilled on center and sure enough was Tungsten. Specific gravity of Tungsten and Gold within .01% very difficult to distinguish magnetically and or dimensionally. Have to bend bar. If it bends easily it’s gold. If it’s solid it’s Tungsten. I’m willing to bet it’s Tungsten.
you tested it on a sigma pro? I would love some photos and more information if you are willing to share please hit me up: silverdragons47@gmail.com
A ping sound test should help in determining if it's gold or plated tungsten. The real bar will have a nice gold gingle vs a fake tungsten it will have a thud or no sound at all.
Yes tested on Sigma Pro. Even had bar xRF tested. Got exact same results as you did. Bought off EBay. Seller allowed my LCS to do a bend test. You must do bend test 2 directions. Long end bend and diagonal bend. Only way to be sure is drill bar on center. We broke a drill bit trying to drill through after trying bend test. I was able to return for full refund.
@@abraham3981 thanks Abraham. We did not try ping test. That’s a good idea.
@@leonidas953 There are repositories out there that deal with thicker bars and they use sound to test for plating. Whether it is a ultrasonic thickness gauge or an ultrasound scanner it is the only sure proof way to determine if there are inserts inside other than drilling. With a thinner bar you can still use the concept of sound without any gauge or scanner.
I sold three ounces of gold during the height of the pandemic. I had a Canadian Gold Maple, An English coin and a Canadian .9999 bar in an assay card. They gave me spot on the two coins and barely looked at them. The bar they broke out of the case and did a number of tests on it and I got Spot - $100 on the bar. Just something to think about if your looking to buy gold.
When buying gold I've noticed the premiums are also higher on the coins then they are on the bars.
@@atrax7023 premiums are almost always greater on coins than bars. At least sovereigns.
That's why I buy bars and only from reputable dealers. Save a bit on premium. Gold is gold.
Great video, thank you for the information. If I were in your position, though, I think I'd go ahead and sell it myself rather than passing it onto my kids. Since you know all of the things to prove it is gold now, you have a better chance of getting a fair return on it. If you pass it down, what if they need/or want to sell it, but you're not able to share that info with them for whatever reason? They may end up getting undercut for it. Better that you sell it to ensure you're getting the most out of it. It's a beautiful bar, but I personally wouldn't trust my kids with it. But anyway that's just my take on it. Very informative, thanks again.
Do we need to be concerned, even if we buy from authentic brokers like SD bullion, APMEX etc?
NO, THEY TEST BULLION.
Yes they got into the legit market
It's very easy for forgers to forge the cardboard the metals in ,,if they can forge the metal they can forge the card ,,only buy from reputable dealers 🤔
An XRF can absolutely penetrate into a material. I work in the mining industry. we use XRF extensively. We expect up to 10mm of penetration into a rock sample.
A real good tip on buying gold is if its like less than spot you probably shouldn't buy it
true that less then spot is usually fake! 🔥🐉
They don’t want you to open it because it’s fake.if it’s real gold by taking it out the packaging it won’t devalue it it’s all ways the price of the value of gold at that time.
This video definitely answered several questions I've had regarding why 1 ounce gold bars have very, very low premiums. I was so tempted to buy a few welk-known bars, but now I know why I wouldn't. Thank-you for the thorough explanation. I'll stay with Eagles, Buffaloes and Maple Leafs.
Intuition hone it.
Yes, continue paying more for gold, especially in these times of outrageous premiums.
Same here. Imagine trying to sell that, or those silver rounds. No one will want them.
Anything and everything can be faked, even coins. You are better off getting a metal analyzer/verifier like he has if you are serious about accumulating precious metals. Yes, it will cost you $1,200 and up but if it saves you from one mistake then you are ahead.
yeah eagles maples and buffalos are the best IMO 🔥🐉
The assay cards are a con, the cards do nothing but raise the price when purchasing and lower the value when selling.
As soon you said that gold value decreases when you take it out of its package, I just stop watching the video because one of the first things you said was 🐂💩
I stay away from Gold for the reasons you discussed to much fake and the equipment to test is expensive. And the ROI ( return on Investment).is not worth the risk over silver IMO.
well, it's 2024 and is the year of the Dragon..again
Have you ever gotten fakes from reputable bullion dealers. Like SD or APMEX