In this final episode of Mild Speculation, we cover what metagames look like early in new editions of wargames. We'll cover the idea of a First Order Optimal strategy, and look at both one of the most common First Order Optimal strategies (general aggressive play) as well as some of the other things you're likely to see early in the new edition.
Early N5 videos I would love 1) Hot Take Tier List (so we can compare after 1-2 years of edition maturity) 2) Your first N5 game as a battle report. (And the associated takes) 3) a thesis on why PanO is not burning to the ground ;)
I'd love to see what that video, not entirely because I'm lazy but because I've been in and out of contact with Infinity as a game as my local metagame goes through stages of playing N4 then playing other skirmish/wargames based on the leagues that the LGS runs. A "short retelling" of N4 and the army lists and meta shifts would be super cool.
1. How to deploy against different common threat archetypes 2. How to deploy and maneuver link teams effectively. Thanks for this series it's been fun as a new player in the pre n5 content drought.
An explainer of the main differences you notice between the n4 and n5 ruleset would be great and maybe a prediction of how that may affect list construction or gameplay? Like if shotguns actually do change and what armies/profiles may benefit for example
I love the faction focus videos, were I don't have a lot of experience it is nice to be able to lease it from others. Also the bat reports. I may not be able to play 3 games a week, but I can certainly watch them! In other news I took Tunguska to an escalation tournament running your list in the 3rd round. It consisted of a 150 pt game, a 200pt and then a 300pt game (also my 4th 5th and 6th games ever.) I tied for first, but got second when we looked at VP! I got a really cool prize, and made a lot of friends. Overall infinity has been a very rewarding experience and I've been very successful in my journey so far. I believe it is largely due to your videos, for not only providing great information, but also to motivate me to keep learning and playing. I eagerly await your next video and the wonderful leap we are all about to take diving into N5. Take care!
Rob myself and friends love your videos. Faction breakdowns are always great. the all faction tier lists are loads of fun. Rule explanations would be great in the context of showing common examples/solutions to common interactions that may (or may not) be confusing to us 1-game-a-month folks!
Rules changes overview video followed by a start of edition hot takes tier list seems like a good place to start. The former providing context for the latter, and it's great to get a snapshot of sentiment at the start and how it changes as time goes on.
Love all of your video since I stumble upon them when I decided to be a bit more serious about Infinity, and lacking experience, your faction focus are really great to break down a faction and understand their strength and weaknesses ! Also, hot takes on all faction could be great too, and everything else as well !!!
This was lovely to listen to Robert, especially parts about game psychology. I am writing something similar for fencing workshops at the moment, about intent/commitment and aggression, and the parallels were fun to see. Your prose is excellent as always.
If I had to guess folks will be interested to see battle reports, since we'll all be chomping at the bit for play experience. Thanks for the excellent content!
I enjoyed the video! Having played MTG competitively in a past life, the comparisons are appropriate. For future videos: I quite enjoy your faction focuses, as I find it helps me see things I haven't considered, whether with a faction I play or am learning to play against. I'd love to see some on new JSA, as well as Combined Army and Onyx. A hot takes tier list would be sweet as well; like someone else mentioned, it could be cool to compare after some time has passed. I also enjoy your battle reports. So i guess my overall answer is just "yes" lol.
I'd love to see an N5 faction focus for Druze. Battle reports would be great to see as well! Thanks a lot for making these. They've helped me with MO and Shasvastii.
As some others have already said (and i just want to lend support to that) i would really appreciate a video going over the changes in the games mechanics coming from N4, maybe with some added context what situations these changes could become relevant etc. Beyond that, i would love a continuation of faction focuses, but these probably will take a bit for opinions to form etc, so in the meantime please keep us in the loop with battle reports! Thanks in advance for all the content coming out way :)
I think we need a faction tier list right off the bat, that's completely done on reaction with no games or any real testing, just so we can refer back to it for how thoughts change once there are some games behind everyone
What I'd like to see you tackle, once n5 goes live in DECEMBER NOW :( N5 - break down ALL the new stuff, but in a way that highlights why it's in the game, and why it's changed up from N4 - ala why we have drones now, and hover bikes, and turrets. JSA - because they are going to require more brain power to use then kestrel, highlight how, what's good, etc - not necessarily a faction focus, but rather an initial overview, maybe hot take? and finally, an overall breakdown of things that MAJORLY changed for each faction, i.e. not specific stat changes on units (unless very notable) but how lost units/profile have hurt each faction, and what units have been given have done to that factions meta. etc.
Talking of FOO would an example be that in early n4 everyone ran total reaction mg remotes as aro pieces, this was phased out after a while as better units where tried.
More of everything honestly. You are the infiniry content I reccomend to new people as a good source of learning. So more of all of it yes please. My personal greedy ask is the new shindenbutai faction focus asap would be super cool. Else More specificly for content an early tier list impression would be interesting so u can compare it down the road. Rules changes and how it will impact would be a very interesting watch. So really hoping that gets made, cause it feels like a great source of thought insights into how n5 is different from n4. Looking forward to seeing what comes next.
Definitely agree with your points, a lot of minor things adds up to big changes, the changes to sixth sense alone means surprise attack will be stronger for taking out ARO pieces even in links, hope combat instinct isn't handed out too liberally though. Changes to shotguns means less templates out there so midfield warbands or - 6 mim but no camo state troops can also be stronger than before
I will always vote for a hot take tier list, mebbe with one of your buddies. Always hilarious those lol That said for serious videos i'm new to infinity as a whole ass thing (just picked up torchlight a couple months ago, basically using the edition change to give me time to paint more/better) i would looooove to see new rules explainers and at some point the return of the faction focus series. I've learned sooo much about tactics in infinity just from listeing to channels like yourself or infinity gamer, or dice gods go over how to use units in the context of their army
Hot takes, explainers, maybe some close looks at a few units you like, faction focus can wait for a bit as we get thru this initial phase :) Somehow i kinda expect this transition to be smoother than the last, but hopefully that will also lead to greater experimentation and fun times
I'm personally most interested in faction focuses and batreps but given your track record I'm sure that whatever you decide to make will be interesting and illuminating. Cheers.
Given Infinity's slow iteration cycle you touch on it would be great to hear from you what FOO strategies you see in early N5 and how you're thinking about countering them
I've been enjoying the faction focus videos, but I think pairing them with a Battle report using the sample list will add variety and hopefully depth/nuance to the focus too. 👌
You can't talk about how it will take months to years for the meta to solidify and then not immediately drop a spicy hot take tier list when N5 releases.
Rules Explainers- not necessarily but “rules uses” yes. I think you mean something similar, but I wanted to be clear. Something like: 2burst in CC, from the example of correct usage of ÜBK. Or: defensive deployment from the example of deploying your minelayer in response to fiday… Also: -faction focuses: YES -battle reports: yes -hot take tier list: YASSS!!!
First comment!🎉🎉🎉 Also please make rules explaining videos. CB rules are notoriosely not really clear, it would be nice to have a unified explnation to them. Faction hot take tierlist sounds like a lot of clicks tho 😂.
Please give us the deranged N5 tier list immediately after the new rules drop. I'm really interested in how your opinion will change over the lifecycle of the edition. Thanks for the great content!
For N5 content, I think it would be both very interesting and instructive to get a glimpse of your listbuilding process for the super early phase of the new edition. I can't really think of a more appropriate format for this than battle reports (plus it has been a while and I would like to see batreps using the new rules).
My personal prediction is that neurocinetics/total reaction will be a common starting spam. Trying to recreate the defense that fireteams used to have. One interesting concept that also came from the FGC is the concept of the so-called "empire" combo. This is a technique that is notably more difficult than normal and intentionally has a smaller return than normal. These typically show up late in a game's metagame where people are getting bored and decide to start doing things that look cool as opposed to being practical. If you've recently had a "farewell N4" game, you might have seen some "empire" lists while people try out stupid stuff because it's not going to matter in a few weeks.
Have we seen any neurokinetics apart from the Black AIR? Which will *absolutely* be a profile taken in a ton of kestrel lists, I'm just wracking my brain to think of where else we've seen it on new profiles.
I don’t think faction focuses will be too useful until the meta settles a little. I think battle reports that highlight a new unit or strategy with the focus being on the new thing would be nice. I also think a review of what metas/strategies are emerging on a monthly basis could be cool. Could work more / less often too.
I'd second the other comments suggesting a "what's new and how might it affect the game" kind of video, but I expect that's not a lot of content... I really enjoy the faction focus videos, especially when they go off in a completely different direction to my expectations, but they're probably less relevant, easy to make and/or useful right at the beginning of an edition. In balance, as much as it's not my favourite video type in general* it seems to me like battle reports featuring new stuff might be the most useful and interesting early-edition content. * Two reasons: firstly, because I can't pay enough attention while painting; secondly, because being able to follow exactly what's going on to the point that I'm happy to just watch the video on its own needs blow-by-blow coverage (e.g. the kind of video the Fast Panda or GMG guys produce) and those are obviously a lot more effort to both shoot and edit, reducing the fun of the game for the participants and dramatically increasing the workload, and just as relevantly the information density is far lower, so I totally understand why you don't do reports like that!
I love the faction focuses. They're great for getting a better passive grip over the game even if you don't play the factions. Just knowing what's out there. Plus I love your takes. ISS please whenever it's rework drops?
Just do everything ;) starting with rules, then a mix of faction focus anf batreps. A theory tier list that early would be interesting also. Cant wati for the 18th to build build build for all armys and mess arround.
Definitely pro a deranged, far too early, caveat loaded tier list. Please, please bring back some bat reps, they are sorely missed. I would love a brief hiatus on the faction focuses until the dust settles, just to give them a little more chance of being future proof if that makes sense. I find the faction focuses to be good reference tools and think a chance for the game state to settle will give them longevity. A “major changes” video would be considered essential in my opinion. Thanks and keep up the good work
Hey Robert, I think my comments are auto deleted for some reason but I'd like to see either a battle report or a rules explainer to start with. Your channel gets a lot of views and the faction related videos will influence the local meta before its even developed hehe.
I haven't gotten any notifications about deleted comments - but this one published correctly, so that's something. I have noticed youtube on mobile is very weird with comments these days.
In this final episode of Mild Speculation, we cover what metagames look like early in new editions of wargames. We'll cover the idea of a First Order Optimal strategy, and look at both one of the most common First Order Optimal strategies (general aggressive play) as well as some of the other things you're likely to see early in the new edition.
Early N5 videos I would love
1) Hot Take Tier List (so we can compare after 1-2 years of edition maturity)
2) Your first N5 game as a battle report. (And the associated takes)
3) a thesis on why PanO is not burning to the ground ;)
@@DireAvengers7X point 1 is a phenomenal idea
Yeah I agree. I want that benchmark
adding to the please do Point 1 noise :)
I’ll take the thesis on why PanO is not burning to the ground.
All three of these are wonderful! Would especially love to see your first n5 game as a battle report
A video that would probably be good is a "what's changed" video for lazy N4 players
I'd love to see what that video, not entirely because I'm lazy but because I've been in and out of contact with Infinity as a game as my local metagame goes through stages of playing N4 then playing other skirmish/wargames based on the leagues that the LGS runs. A "short retelling" of N4 and the army lists and meta shifts would be super cool.
I’d love a video like this too
N4 players realizing that revealing your LT’s WIP to decide who has first turn and deployment is hard coded into the rules.
1. How to deploy against different common threat archetypes
2. How to deploy and maneuver link teams effectively.
Thanks for this series it's been fun as a new player in the pre n5 content drought.
Rob: "Do you want to see XY?"
Me: YES!
😉
An explainer of the main differences you notice between the n4 and n5 ruleset would be great and maybe a prediction of how that may affect list construction or gameplay? Like if shotguns actually do change and what armies/profiles may benefit for example
I love the faction focus videos, were I don't have a lot of experience it is nice to be able to lease it from others. Also the bat reports. I may not be able to play 3 games a week, but I can certainly watch them!
In other news I took Tunguska to an escalation tournament running your list in the 3rd round. It consisted of a 150 pt game, a 200pt and then a 300pt game (also my 4th 5th and 6th games ever.) I tied for first, but got second when we looked at VP! I got a really cool prize, and made a lot of friends. Overall infinity has been a very rewarding experience and I've been very successful in my journey so far. I believe it is largely due to your videos, for not only providing great information, but also to motivate me to keep learning and playing. I eagerly await your next video and the wonderful leap we are all about to take diving into N5. Take care!
Congratulations on the result :)
Rob myself and friends love your videos. Faction breakdowns are always great. the all faction tier lists are loads of fun. Rule explanations would be great in the context of showing common examples/solutions to common interactions that may (or may not) be confusing to us 1-game-a-month folks!
How camo works... how to use it? How to play against it?
Rules changes overview video followed by a start of edition hot takes tier list seems like a good place to start. The former providing context for the latter, and it's great to get a snapshot of sentiment at the start and how it changes as time goes on.
100% an unhinged hot take as the edition drops would be amazing. Especially as a retrospective once the edition has hit it's stride.
Yes to all of them. I like your breakdowns of factions, makes them more approachable for me.
Love all of your video since I stumble upon them when I decided to be a bit more serious about Infinity, and lacking experience, your faction focus are really great to break down a faction and understand their strength and weaknesses !
Also, hot takes on all faction could be great too, and everything else as well !!!
This was lovely to listen to Robert, especially parts about game psychology. I am writing something similar for fencing workshops at the moment, about intent/commitment and aggression, and the parallels were fun to see. Your prose is excellent as always.
Great video, I love the philosophy of the new game learning curve.
Im a new player so any video that explains the way to learn or improve gameplay is great. This game is a lot to try and learn.
I am always a fan of Battle reports! It is always interesting to hear your thought process!. Thank you again!
If I had to guess folks will be interested to see battle reports, since we'll all be chomping at the bit for play experience. Thanks for the excellent content!
Faction focus, rules explains and hot takes.
Please give a breakdown of n5 rules changes - I'm terrible at picking these up
Battle reports showing off new rules or models would be amazing.
Plus I always love a good hot take tier list!
I enjoyed the video! Having played MTG competitively in a past life, the comparisons are appropriate.
For future videos: I quite enjoy your faction focuses, as I find it helps me see things I haven't considered, whether with a faction I play or am learning to play against. I'd love to see some on new JSA, as well as Combined Army and Onyx. A hot takes tier list would be sweet as well; like someone else mentioned, it could be cool to compare after some time has passed. I also enjoy your battle reports. So i guess my overall answer is just "yes" lol.
ok you got me now Rob I am in on the edition
I'm happy to hear some else talk about First Order Optimals...
Love the faction focuses and the tier lists!
I'd love to see an N5 faction focus for Druze.
Battle reports would be great to see as well!
Thanks a lot for making these. They've helped me with MO and Shasvastii.
As some others have already said (and i just want to lend support to that) i would really appreciate a video going over the changes in the games mechanics coming from N4, maybe with some added context what situations these changes could become relevant etc. Beyond that, i would love a continuation of faction focuses, but these probably will take a bit for opinions to form etc, so in the meantime please keep us in the loop with battle reports! Thanks in advance for all the content coming out way :)
N5 battle reports for sure, but definitely an ‘here’s everything that changed’ video
I think we need a faction tier list right off the bat, that's completely done on reaction with no games or any real testing, just so we can refer back to it for how thoughts change once there are some games behind everyone
You’re tier lists are always fun
What I'd like to see you tackle, once n5 goes live in DECEMBER NOW :(
N5 - break down ALL the new stuff, but in a way that highlights why it's in the game, and why it's changed up from N4 - ala why we have drones now, and hover bikes, and turrets.
JSA - because they are going to require more brain power to use then kestrel, highlight how, what's good, etc - not necessarily a faction focus, but rather an initial overview, maybe hot take?
and finally, an overall breakdown of things that MAJORLY changed for each faction, i.e. not specific stat changes on units (unless very notable) but how lost units/profile have hurt each faction, and what units have been given have done to that factions meta. etc.
Talking of FOO would an example be that in early n4 everyone ran total reaction mg remotes as aro pieces, this was phased out after a while as better units where tried.
More of everything honestly. You are the infiniry content I reccomend to new people as a good source of learning. So more of all of it yes please. My personal greedy ask is the new shindenbutai faction focus asap would be super cool.
Else More specificly for content an early tier list impression would be interesting so u can compare it down the road.
Rules changes and how it will impact would be a very interesting watch. So really hoping that gets made, cause it feels like a great source of thought insights into how n5 is different from n4.
Looking forward to seeing what comes next.
Definitely agree with your points, a lot of minor things adds up to big changes, the changes to sixth sense alone means surprise attack will be stronger for taking out ARO pieces even in links, hope combat instinct isn't handed out too liberally though. Changes to shotguns means less templates out there so midfield warbands or - 6 mim but no camo state troops can also be stronger than before
I will always vote for a hot take tier list, mebbe with one of your buddies. Always hilarious those lol
That said for serious videos i'm new to infinity as a whole ass thing (just picked up torchlight a couple months ago, basically using the edition change to give me time to paint more/better) i would looooove to see new rules explainers and at some point the return of the faction focus series. I've learned sooo much about tactics in infinity just from listeing to channels like yourself or infinity gamer, or dice gods go over how to use units in the context of their army
faction focuses and batreps are cool, but deranged all faction tier list is cooler, can't wait for N5 and hot takes to drop.
Holy fuck! My infinity video talking David Sirlin playing to win! Hahahahahah As someone who plays fighting games this is a weird and unseen crossover
Woo sirlin video!
Hot takes, explainers, maybe some close looks at a few units you like, faction focus can wait for a bit as we get thru this initial phase :)
Somehow i kinda expect this transition to be smoother than the last, but hopefully that will also lead to greater experimentation and fun times
It's like a "Auspex Tactics" for infinity. sounds good
1) Hot-take Tier List
2) Faction focuses
3) A thesis on why vanilla Aleph is in fact playable and not a dumpster fire of hot garbage.
I'm personally most interested in faction focuses and batreps but given your track record I'm sure that whatever you decide to make will be interesting and illuminating. Cheers.
An initial tier list might be interesting, to see how it evolves during this edition
Given Infinity's slow iteration cycle you touch on it would be great to hear from you what FOO strategies you see in early N5 and how you're thinking about countering them
Sirlin also made the card game Yomi which about fighting game stuff.
I've been enjoying the faction focus videos, but I think pairing them with a Battle report using the sample list will add variety and hopefully depth/nuance to the focus too. 👌
Digging out my Foo Fighters CDs right now!
I expect to see team achillies in every game I play for the next year or so.... because they'll be in my list every damn time
You can't talk about how it will take months to years for the meta to solidify and then not immediately drop a spicy hot take tier list when N5 releases.
Would love to see Faction Focus, specifically White Banner. Also love rules explanations and some general tactics concepts for newer players
Mediocre is an aspirational target for me.
Rules Explainers- not necessarily but “rules uses” yes. I think you mean something similar, but I wanted to be clear. Something like: 2burst in CC, from the example of correct usage of ÜBK. Or: defensive deployment from the example of deploying your minelayer in response to fiday…
Also:
-faction focuses: YES
-battle reports: yes
-hot take tier list: YASSS!!!
First comment!🎉🎉🎉
Also please make rules explaining videos. CB rules are notoriosely not really clear, it would be nice to have a unified explnation to them.
Faction hot take tierlist sounds like a lot of clicks tho 😂.
Please give us the deranged N5 tier list immediately after the new rules drop. I'm really interested in how your opinion will change over the lifecycle of the edition. Thanks for the great content!
For N5 content, I think it would be both very interesting and instructive to get a glimpse of your listbuilding process for the super early phase of the new edition. I can't really think of a more appropriate format for this than battle reports (plus it has been a while and I would like to see batreps using the new rules).
My personal prediction is that neurocinetics/total reaction will be a common starting spam. Trying to recreate the defense that fireteams used to have.
One interesting concept that also came from the FGC is the concept of the so-called "empire" combo. This is a technique that is notably more difficult than normal and intentionally has a smaller return than normal. These typically show up late in a game's metagame where people are getting bored and decide to start doing things that look cool as opposed to being practical. If you've recently had a "farewell N4" game, you might have seen some "empire" lists while people try out stupid stuff because it's not going to matter in a few weeks.
Have we seen any neurokinetics apart from the Black AIR? Which will *absolutely* be a profile taken in a ton of kestrel lists, I'm just wracking my brain to think of where else we've seen it on new profiles.
Also, 'empire' strategies are a cool idea. I have definitely seen/played some of those. :)
@@R0bertShepherd Keep in mind old profiles as well. Things like the sin eater and sunduqbut.
I don’t think faction focuses will be too useful until the meta settles a little. I think battle reports that highlight a new unit or strategy with the focus being on the new thing would be nice.
I also think a review of what metas/strategies are emerging on a monthly basis could be cool. Could work more / less often too.
Would be interesting too see your prediction on the 4 or 5 early FOO lists.
Another way to make the topic less broad and more micro would be to try and identify which fireteams are the most abuseable and cost-effective.
I would really enjoy some N5 battle reports. Just to seen the new units/rules in "action" 😊
I'd second the other comments suggesting a "what's new and how might it affect the game" kind of video, but I expect that's not a lot of content... I really enjoy the faction focus videos, especially when they go off in a completely different direction to my expectations, but they're probably less relevant, easy to make and/or useful right at the beginning of an edition. In balance, as much as it's not my favourite video type in general* it seems to me like battle reports featuring new stuff might be the most useful and interesting early-edition content.
* Two reasons: firstly, because I can't pay enough attention while painting; secondly, because being able to follow exactly what's going on to the point that I'm happy to just watch the video on its own needs blow-by-blow coverage (e.g. the kind of video the Fast Panda or GMG guys produce) and those are obviously a lot more effort to both shoot and edit, reducing the fun of the game for the participants and dramatically increasing the workload, and just as relevantly the information density is far lower, so I totally understand why you don't do reports like that!
Bring out the battle reports! We want to see how your opinions are shaped as you explore N5.
Would be super keen to see some N5 faction focuses (any of Yu JIng ideally)
Would also love to see a continuation of your new player series. Eg deploying properly, layering defences, general list building
I love the faction focuses. They're great for getting a better passive grip over the game even if you don't play the factions. Just knowing what's out there. Plus I love your takes.
ISS please whenever it's rework drops?
The answer the last four questions: Yes, yes we would.
Yeah that's kinda the vibe I'm getting from these responses XD
Just do everything ;) starting with rules, then a mix of faction focus anf batreps. A theory tier list that early would be interesting also. Cant wati for the 18th to build build build for all armys and mess arround.
Definitely pro a deranged, far too early, caveat loaded tier list. Please, please bring back some bat reps, they are sorely missed.
I would love a brief hiatus on the faction focuses until the dust settles, just to give them a little more chance of being future proof if that makes sense. I find the faction focuses to be good reference tools and think a chance for the game state to settle will give them longevity.
A “major changes” video would be considered essential in my opinion. Thanks and keep up the good work
I think rules explainers for a new addition are excellent. And then I think that a hot takes video would get a ton of clicks
I would love to see rules explainations..
Maybe something lore related? Like a recap of the major plot points from the past (20?) years?
30' of strategy discussion going through Infinity, StarCraft, MTG and Fighting games? Is it Dec 25th already? Sounds like xmas.
On new content, I'd love to see some stuff for new players who have come in jazzed by N5. Also, notice you're Aussie. In Sydney?
Close - Canberra :)
@R0bertShepherd Amazing! I worked at the ANU for the better part of a decade and head there a few times a year for work. Play out of Jolt?
@@YetMoreCupsOfTea yup. :)
DERRANGED HOT TAKE TIER LIST!!!!
Hey Robert, I think my comments are auto deleted for some reason but I'd like to see either a battle report or a rules explainer to start with. Your channel gets a lot of views and the faction related videos will influence the local meta before its even developed hehe.
I haven't gotten any notifications about deleted comments - but this one published correctly, so that's something. I have noticed youtube on mobile is very weird with comments these days.
Do a pre-release N5 Hot Take Tier List!
*Extra* deranged.
@@R0bertShepherd CB has given you the time. It's like they want you to do this.
New content? Why not everything?
Batreps and rules please!!!
I lole rules explainer and battle reports
Rules, please do Rules