I think a lot of players are going to have to reevaluate how they approach the format financially. Hopefully these cards don’t lose all their value (or if they do I want one!)
If they don't backpedal or make two ban lists, I know many of us who were not playing no ban list cedh will be doing that despite the RC. It makes them appear foolish when so many more will now be simply disregarding them. (a fine solution is two ban lists, one for regular and one for cedh) I would get behind that.
Yes! Please people, proxy cards if you cannot comfortably afford them. I'm a 20+ year player and I owned zero real versions of these cards. Why? Because I don't keep $100 pieces of cardboard that can depreciate overnight.
Honestly should have included sol ring too. Fast mana has been really toxic in commander for a long time I think. Getting a lucky opening hand shouldn't dictate your entire game. This is true in CEDH where some dudes will drop 6 mana turn one and everyone has to arch before they can combo. But definitely bad in casual as people seem to not understand what casual is supposed to be and will make power "7" decks that "accidentally" combo off on turn 3. I would like to see people think outside the box a bit more. I think long run this is healthy.
I strongly disagree. Fast mana usually comes at a cost (cards in hand). Getting lucky is 50% of the game (it's a card game) and I would argue luck plays a more pivotal role in a casual setting. There needs to be separate ban lists and a definite line between the EDH and cEDH formats. If they don't do this, they will kill the competitive format by catering to the people that complain at the casual level. The mana rock bans are relatively inconsequential play wise, it will just make the best decks in the format better (Kinnan, Rogsi, Ect.); it is the financial side of it that has everyone angry. The dockside ban was a deck killer. Many supporting cards will lose not only value but relevance (Emiel, CN, Barrin, and Sabretooth). The real solve to this problem is throwing rule zero out the window and do a strict ban list for casuals and one for competitive players. Also not listening to the people that play just one format because some cards aren't as devastating in cEDH as they are in casual.
@@steelheart4137 I disagree even more with that. If you sit at a table and throw a game. That is worse than getting upset at a loss IMO. I would have more respect for someone that bawled their eyes out over losing than have someone that had no intention of winning in the first place. I will never play a chess match with the intention of losing. I would make the argument that it is poor sportsmanship to throw a game or to play the game without the intention of winning. I digress.
if people want to remove fast mana, then just remove every mana rock, get rid of the signets, the thought vessels, lantern of revealing, keystones etc etc. the reason why sol ring isnt banned is because it costs 1 mana to play. JL and MC cost 0 and give 2 to 3 mana. 1 land, 2 colourless from MC and 3 of a colour from JL is 6 mana turn 1. its absurd.
Sol ring is more boken than Jeweled Lotus... Hear me out. Lotus justified playing commanders of cmc of 6+. On the other hand, if you're playing a 3-4 cmc commander, which would you rather have in your opening hand? A sol ring or a lotus. Sol ring is on board until removed. Lotus is sacrificed and can only be spent on your commander. Do the math and you might find yourself agreeing with me. Lotus was banned because those couldn't afford it but wanted the real thing rather than a proxy ,whinned until the RC caved.
I personally agree with the bannings for the most part. I think that when you engage with a game like MtG, you make the agreement that if you purchase questionably powerful or hated cards that they can be banned. Wizards and now the EDH Rules committee has been more liberal in their bannings in recent years. If you choose to purchase something as good as Mana Crypt, you should be ready to one day take the loss. The finances of this game are superfluous and out of control, and to not see the precedent that is being set for the game is choosing to be willfully ignorant.
I’ve only been playing a year and always try and buy the base version of cards so this doesn’t happen. Also mainly playing pioneer / standard doesn’t get as expensive as high end modern or commander decks
@@TheManaApprentice "a lot" A lot of people don't have these cards. How do you know public reception less than a day at the time? General reception is the bans were good.
@@TheManaApprentice Just because an argument can be made to ban sol ring (too), doesn't mean Jeweled Lotus and mana Crypt were a bad ban... I think these bans where good for the format imho.
Hi we’re not investors, we’re those nice older players who pull out the kiddie decks to play against your precons, throw community tournaments, and run your LGS’s. This is a silly take.
@@icholi88 Buying good cards for a deck that's fun and engaging is fine. And second, even if the loss isnt 1000$, the fact I just lost 200$ in value over 3 cards that I own for my 3 decks is absolutely crazy and makes it much harder for me financially later, as I justified buying those cards due to them retaining value later on. I didn't want them to increase in value, just retain value. Now I have about 40 dollars worth of cardboard, which is still a lot for cardboard, but im down 160 dollars in the longterm, and I can't even use the cards. Fuck you.
just to put into perspective, at 7:16, the value of all of those cards in that photo alone is nearly 2500 in cards. I do not blame people for being upset as all of these cards, but particularly jeweled lotus, are now unusable.
Not true, I know of 3 LGS within 50 miles of me that refuse to abide the new bans. It sounds like it’s getting pretty common and it would be nice if enough LGS banded together and just said F the RC and just pretending they don’t exist.
@@brandonberger9952 True to an extent, but you do understand why my bank account is a more secure, reliable, and most importantly unavoidable means of maintaining wealth than trading cards right?
I know personally, I’m done buying anything other than universes beyond sets because those are too expensive for WotC to get the rights to reprint. There’s no point investing money in cards that won’t have any equity months after a printing so I’m done buying into any other set. I’ll play Magic in my 2 pods and a few LGS near me that refuse to abide the new bans. 🤷♂️
There should be a separate ban list for cEDH. I know the RC has dismissed this idea in the past, but this seems like a step in that direction. For me, Kibler's take on the bans is closest to how I feel about the situation. Let cEDH play overpowered cards and ban them in casual EDH
The reason I don't think there should be two ban lists for commander is the same reason I don't think there should be a casual modern ban list. It just doesn't make sense to me to create 2 formats with the same deck building restrictions and card pool but different ban lists. That is nothing but confusing to me
All of the bans were justified. They were incredibly unbalanced horridly designed cards. TO those who are mad they lost money and value on the cards............................they are pieces of cardboard and a game. Card prices fluctuate and cards on a ban list should not decided by people losing value for said card.
Investors be like: LETS GO GAMBLING! ...aw dangit...aw dangit....aw dangit...aw dangit...aw dangit
GREAT BIT
I think a lot of players are going to have to reevaluate how they approach the format financially. Hopefully these cards don’t lose all their value (or if they do I want one!)
I want one too!
If they don't backpedal or make two ban lists, I know many of us who were not playing no ban list cedh will be doing that despite the RC. It makes them appear foolish when so many more will now be simply disregarding them. (a fine solution is two ban lists, one for regular and one for cedh) I would get behind that.
Yes! Please people, proxy cards if you cannot comfortably afford them. I'm a 20+ year player and I owned zero real versions of these cards. Why? Because I don't keep $100 pieces of cardboard that can depreciate overnight.
Honestly should have included sol ring too.
Fast mana has been really toxic in commander for a long time I think. Getting a lucky opening hand shouldn't dictate your entire game. This is true in CEDH where some dudes will drop 6 mana turn one and everyone has to arch before they can combo. But definitely bad in casual as people seem to not understand what casual is supposed to be and will make power "7" decks that "accidentally" combo off on turn 3.
I would like to see people think outside the box a bit more. I think long run this is healthy.
I strongly disagree.
Fast mana usually comes at a cost (cards in hand). Getting lucky is 50% of the game (it's a card game) and I would argue luck plays a more pivotal role in a casual setting. There needs to be separate ban lists and a definite line between the EDH and cEDH formats. If they don't do this, they will kill the competitive format by catering to the people that complain at the casual level. The mana rock bans are relatively inconsequential play wise, it will just make the best decks in the format better (Kinnan, Rogsi, Ect.); it is the financial side of it that has everyone angry. The dockside ban was a deck killer. Many supporting cards will lose not only value but relevance (Emiel, CN, Barrin, and Sabretooth).
The real solve to this problem is throwing rule zero out the window and do a strict ban list for casuals and one for competitive players. Also not listening to the people that play just one format because some cards aren't as devastating in cEDH as they are in casual.
Well with situations like this is where sportsmanship comes into play. The problem is the people who’s only goal is to win
@@steelheart4137 I disagree even more with that. If you sit at a table and throw a game. That is worse than getting upset at a loss IMO. I would have more respect for someone that bawled their eyes out over losing than have someone that had no intention of winning in the first place. I will never play a chess match with the intention of losing. I would make the argument that it is poor sportsmanship to throw a game or to play the game without the intention of winning. I digress.
if people want to remove fast mana, then just remove every mana rock, get rid of the signets, the thought vessels, lantern of revealing, keystones etc etc. the reason why sol ring isnt banned is because it costs 1 mana to play. JL and MC cost 0 and give 2 to 3 mana. 1 land, 2 colourless from MC and 3 of a colour from JL is 6 mana turn 1. its absurd.
Sol ring is more boken than Jeweled Lotus... Hear me out.
Lotus justified playing commanders of cmc of 6+. On the other hand, if you're playing a 3-4 cmc commander, which would you rather have in your opening hand? A sol ring or a lotus. Sol ring is on board until removed. Lotus is sacrificed and can only be spent on your commander. Do the math and you might find yourself agreeing with me.
Lotus was banned because those couldn't afford it but wanted the real thing rather than a proxy ,whinned until the RC caved.
I'm confused, are you calling signets fast mana?
I do agree with these bans, I can see the argument for sol ring I mainly think they won’t ban it due to its wide viability and how low of a cost it is
I personally agree with the bannings for the most part. I think that when you engage with a game like MtG, you make the agreement that if you purchase questionably powerful or hated cards that they can be banned. Wizards and now the EDH Rules committee has been more liberal in their bannings in recent years. If you choose to purchase something as good as Mana Crypt, you should be ready to one day take the loss. The finances of this game are superfluous and out of control, and to not see the precedent that is being set for the game is choosing to be willfully ignorant.
I’ve only been playing a year and always try and buy the base version of cards so this doesn’t happen. Also mainly playing pioneer / standard doesn’t get as expensive as high end modern or commander decks
Yeah, in eternal formats and especially with the very aggressive design space bans become kind of a inevitability.
"furious" who the fuck is furious? The .1% that actually use the cards? Sorry but Zero mana Manarocks are just dogshit design.
A lot of people were not happy but sol ring somehow survived
@@TheManaApprentice "a lot" A lot of people don't have these cards. How do you know public reception less than a day at the time? General reception is the bans were good.
@@TheManaApprentice Just because an argument can be made to ban sol ring (too), doesn't mean Jeweled Lotus and mana Crypt were a bad ban... I think these bans where good for the format imho.
u might be in a bubble buddy idk
Investor bros pretending to be CEDH players, Magic is a game not an investment. If you are out more than $1000 dollars from this the problem is you.
Hi we’re not investors, we’re those nice older players who pull out the kiddie decks to play against your precons, throw community tournaments, and run your LGS’s. This is a silly take.
@@Davedave3303 Its really not, its a singlton format, you have no one to blame but yourself.
@@icholi88 an even sillier take haha
@@icholi88 Buying good cards for a deck that's fun and engaging is fine.
And second, even if the loss isnt 1000$, the fact I just lost 200$ in value over 3 cards that I own for my 3 decks is absolutely crazy and makes it much harder for me financially later, as I justified buying those cards due to them retaining value later on. I didn't want them to increase in value, just retain value.
Now I have about 40 dollars worth of cardboard, which is still a lot for cardboard, but im down 160 dollars in the longterm, and I can't even use the cards. Fuck you.
@@Davedave3303 How much are you out? You didn't think cardboard was an investment, did you?
just to put into perspective, at 7:16, the value of all of those cards in that photo alone is nearly 2500 in cards. I do not blame people for being upset as all of these cards, but particularly jeweled lotus, are now unusable.
Thanks for crunching the numbers!
Not true, I know of 3 LGS within 50 miles of me that refuse to abide the new bans. It sounds like it’s getting pretty common and it would be nice if enough LGS banded together and just said F the RC and just pretending they don’t exist.
👏 you 👏 should 👏 not 👏 own 👏 $2400 👏 in 👏 cardboard 👏
@@harmoniousrex lol, if you had $2400 in your wallet, you technically just have some paper with numbers and dead presidents printed on it. 😂😂
@@brandonberger9952 True to an extent, but you do understand why my bank account is a more secure, reliable, and most importantly unavoidable means of maintaining wealth than trading cards right?
I know personally, I’m done buying anything other than universes beyond sets because those are too expensive for WotC to get the rights to reprint. There’s no point investing money in cards that won’t have any equity months after a printing so I’m done buying into any other set.
I’ll play Magic in my 2 pods and a few LGS near me that refuse to abide the new bans. 🤷♂️
There should be a separate ban list for cEDH. I know the RC has dismissed this idea in the past, but this seems like a step in that direction. For me, Kibler's take on the bans is closest to how I feel about the situation. Let cEDH play overpowered cards and ban them in casual EDH
The reason I don't think there should be two ban lists for commander is the same reason I don't think there should be a casual modern ban list. It just doesn't make sense to me to create 2 formats with the same deck building restrictions and card pool but different ban lists. That is nothing but confusing to me
Nah, no. These cards aren't healthy in any casual format. Only person who says otherwise is the one player with a 200 dollar manacrypt lmfao.
All of the bans were justified. They were incredibly unbalanced horridly designed cards. TO those who are mad they lost money and value on the cards............................they are pieces of cardboard and a game. Card prices fluctuate and cards on a ban list should not decided by people losing value for said card.