Michael, I have been following your work, thank you...I am fortified in my desire for truth listening to these lectures. I have been reading and writing attempting to clarify the picture.I am discovering more and plunging deeper, compelled by Ramana...Thank you
Just contemplating on this . "Sleep state and Impermanent dissolving of mind" : " In sleep state, first the mind(aka ego) dissolves, and after that we are in touch with self. It is impermanent meaning when we wake up, "I" or ego thought pops up and mind is again formed" "Realizing Self in Waking state" :"To completely dissolve the mind, we have to realize the self in the waking state. We can do that by turning our mind inward with the the help of "who am I" investigation step by step with patience and perseverance. if mind is turned inward without any or zero desires, we would ultimately realize self and it is what is called permanent destruction of mind. -- If the mind is permanently destroyed, then do we cease to exist. Would we be still living in this world. some of the video discussion , it has been mentioned that either realizing self or world exists - not both.
Our real nature (ātma-svarūpa) is pure awareness, which means awareness that is not contaminated with even the slightest awareness of anything other than itself, because nothing other than itself is real. Therefore what is aware of any world is not ourself as we actually are but only ourself as ego, and hence when ego is eradicated the illusory appearance of any world will be eradicated along with it, as Bhagavan implies unequivocally in the third and fourth paragraphs of Nāṉ Ār?: happinessofbeing.com/nan_yar.html#para03 happinessofbeing.com/nan_yar.html#para04
As it is discussed in this video, the following is a sentence-by-sentence transliteration and translation of this second half of the sixth paragraph of நானார்? (Nāṉ Ār?), Who am I?: சூக்ஷ்மமான மனம், மூளை இந்திரியங்கள் வாயிலாய் வெளிப்படும் போது ஸ்தூலமான நாமரூபங்கள் தோன்றுகின்றன; sūkṣmam-āṉa maṉam, mūḷai indiriyaṅgaḷ vāyilāy veḷippaḍum pōdu sthūlam-āṉa nāma-rūpaṅgaḷ tōṉḏṟugiṉḏṟaṉa; When the subtle mind goes out by way of the brain and sense organs, gross names and forms [the phenomena that constitute the mind and world] appear; ஹிருதயத்தில் தங்கும்போது நாமரூபங்கள் மறைகின்றன. hirudayattil taṅgumbōdu nāma-rūpaṅgaḷ maṟaigiṉḏṟaṉa. when it remains in the heart [the core of oneself, namely one’s fundamental self-awareness, ‘I am’], names and forms disappear. மனத்தை வெளிவிடாமல் ஹிருதயத்தில் வைத்துக்கொண்டிருப்பதற்குத்தான் ‘அகமுகம்’ அல்லது ‘அந்தர்முகம்’ என்று பெயர். maṉattai veḷiviḍāmal hirudayattil vaittu-k-koṇḍiruppadaṟku-t-tāṉ ‘ahamukam’ alladu ‘antarmukham’ eṉḏṟu peyar. The name ‘ahamukham’ [facing inwards or facing I] or ‘antarmukham’ [facing inwards] [refers] only to keeping the mind in the heart without letting it go out. ஹ்ருதயத்திலிருந்து வெளிவிடுவதற்குத்தான் ‘பகிர்முக’ மென்று பெயர். hrudayattilirundu veḷiviḍuvadaṟku-t-tāṉ ‘bahirmukham’ eṉḏṟu peyar. The name ‘bahirmukham’ [facing outwards] [refers] only to letting it go out from the heart.
இவ்விதமாக மனம் ஹ்ருதயத்திற் றங்கவே, எல்லா நினைவுகளுக்கும் மூலமான நான் என்பது போய் எப்பொழுது முள்ள தான் மாத்திரம் விளங்கும். i-v-vidham-āha maṉam hrudayattil taṅgavē, ellā niṉaivugaḷukkum mūlam-āṉa nāṉ eṉbadu pōy eppoṙudum uḷḷa tāṉ māttiram viḷaṅgum. When the mind remains [firmly fixed] in the heart in this manner, what is called I [the ego], which is the root [foundation, cause or origin] of all thoughts, will depart and oneself, who always exists, alone will shine. நான் என்னும் நினைவு கிஞ்சித்து மில்லா விடமே சொரூபமாகும். nāṉ eṉṉum niṉaivu kiñcittum illā v-iḍam-ē sorūpam āhum. Only the place where the thought called I [the ego] does not exist at all [or even a little] is svarūpa [one’s ‘own form’ or real nature]. அதுவே ‘மௌன’ மெனப்படும். adu-v-ē ‘mauṉam’ eṉa-p-paḍum. That alone is called ‘mauna’ [silence]. இவ்வாறு சும்மா விருப்பதற்குத்தான் ‘ஞான திருஷ்டி’ என்று பெயர். ivvāṟu summā v-iruppadaṟku-t-tāṉ ‘ñāṉa-diruṣṭi’ eṉḏṟu peyar. The name ‘jñāna-dṛṣṭi’ [‘knowledge-seeing’, experiencing true knowledge or real awareness] [refers] only to just being (summā-v-iruppadu) in this manner. சும்மா விருப்பதாவது மனத்தை ஆன்மசொரூபத்தில் லயிக்கச் செய்வதே. summā v-iruppadāvadu maṉattai āṉma-sorūpattil layikka-c ceyvadē. What just being (summā-v-iruppadu) is is only making the mind dissolve [disappear or die] in ātma-svarūpa [the ‘own form’ or real nature of oneself]. அன்றி, பிறர் கருத்தறிதல், முக்கால முணர்தல், தூர தேசத்தில் நடப்பன வறிதல் ஆகிய இவை ஞான திருஷ்டி யாகமாட்டா. aṉḏṟi, piṟar karuttu aṟidal, mu-k-kālam uṇardal, dūra dēśattil naḍappaṉa v-aṟidal āhiya ivai ñāṉa-diruṣṭi y-āha-māṭṭā. Besides [this state of just being, in which the ego is dissolved forever in ātma-svarūpa and therefore does not rise at all to know anything else], knowing the thoughts of others, knowing the three times [past, present and future], and knowing what is happening in distant places cannot be jñāna-dṛṣṭi.
Sri Ramana Teachings Michael. Not sure that I understand the last long sentence. Feeling that I know the thoughts of others, feeling the three times, feeling ( imagining) what is happening in distant places. These cannot be. Is that correct?
Whether such 'psychic' or 'supernatural' abilities are possible or not, there are people who believe them to be possible, and in India they are popularly described as 'jñāna-dṛṣṭi', so Bhagavan is just repudiating this wrong idea about jñāna-dṛṣṭi. As he says, the true meaning of jñāna-dṛṣṭi is silence, our real nature, the state of just being, in which the mind is dissolved forever and in which there is therefore not even the slightest trace of ego. The implication is that jñāna-dṛṣṭi is not knowing anything other than oneself. As to whether such abilities are possible or not, the mind is māyā, the power of self-deception, so everything created by it is an illusion, so by training it in a particular way by yogic practices or other such means it may seem to acquire all sorts of 'psychic' or 'supernatural' abilities, but like everything else that the mind experiences, these are all just an illusion. What is real or what actually is only ātma-svarūpa (the ‘own form’ or real nature of oneself), as he says in the first sentence of the next paragraph of Nāṉ Ār?, and ātma-svarūpa is just pure awareness, which means awareness of nothing other than itself.
Sri Ramana Teachings Thank you for that. Actually I was thinking in terms of everyday convictions and assumptions we have, not only of the yogis, but I see it is all on the same plane. I also appreciate your occasional references to the Big Bang theory which we so matter-of-factly accept.
Is it possible to have a word to word translation of this masterpiece of Shri Bhagwan similar to the one we have for Arunachala Sthiti Pamchakam and Updesh Noon Malai? Available english translations - except those by Michel- are not always faithful to original. Following the text word by word will help to understand the text better.
Yes, sometime I would like to write a detailed explanation of each sentence, including the meaning of each word in it and its syntax, but if or when I will have time to do so is in Bhagavan's hands.
Michael, I have been following your work, thank you...I am fortified in my desire for truth listening to these lectures. I have been reading and writing attempting to clarify the picture.I am discovering more and plunging deeper, compelled by Ramana...Thank you
Michael your interpretation of Bhagwan's words have an ever increasing power that even you won't be able to fathom it 🙏
The above statement means that it may not be possible even for you to gauge the extent of its beneficial & transcendental effect on the listeners
Thanks
A most brilliant exposition!!
🌷🙏Thank you
Just contemplating on this . "Sleep state and Impermanent dissolving of mind" : " In sleep state, first the mind(aka ego) dissolves, and after that we are in touch with self. It is impermanent meaning when we wake up, "I" or ego thought pops up and mind is again formed"
"Realizing Self in Waking state" :"To completely dissolve the mind, we have to realize the self in the waking state. We can do that by turning our mind inward with the the help of "who am I" investigation step by step with patience and perseverance. if mind is turned inward without any or zero desires, we would ultimately realize self and it is what is called permanent destruction of mind. -- If the mind is permanently destroyed, then do we cease to exist. Would we be still living in this world. some of the video discussion , it has been mentioned that either realizing self or world exists - not both.
Our real nature (ātma-svarūpa) is pure awareness, which means awareness that is not contaminated with even the slightest awareness of anything other than itself, because nothing other than itself is real. Therefore what is aware of any world is not ourself as we actually are but only ourself as ego, and hence when ego is eradicated the illusory appearance of any world will be eradicated along with it, as Bhagavan implies unequivocally in the third and fourth paragraphs of Nāṉ Ār?:
happinessofbeing.com/nan_yar.html#para03
happinessofbeing.com/nan_yar.html#para04
As it is discussed in this video, the following is a sentence-by-sentence transliteration and translation of this second half of the sixth paragraph of நானார்? (Nāṉ Ār?), Who am I?:
சூக்ஷ்மமான மனம், மூளை இந்திரியங்கள் வாயிலாய் வெளிப்படும் போது ஸ்தூலமான நாமரூபங்கள் தோன்றுகின்றன;
sūkṣmam-āṉa maṉam, mūḷai indiriyaṅgaḷ vāyilāy veḷippaḍum pōdu sthūlam-āṉa nāma-rūpaṅgaḷ tōṉḏṟugiṉḏṟaṉa;
When the subtle mind goes out by way of the brain and sense organs, gross names and forms [the phenomena that constitute the mind and world] appear;
ஹிருதயத்தில் தங்கும்போது நாமரூபங்கள் மறைகின்றன.
hirudayattil taṅgumbōdu nāma-rūpaṅgaḷ maṟaigiṉḏṟaṉa.
when it remains in the heart [the core of oneself, namely one’s fundamental self-awareness, ‘I am’], names and forms disappear.
மனத்தை வெளிவிடாமல் ஹிருதயத்தில் வைத்துக்கொண்டிருப்பதற்குத்தான் ‘அகமுகம்’ அல்லது ‘அந்தர்முகம்’ என்று பெயர்.
maṉattai veḷiviḍāmal hirudayattil vaittu-k-koṇḍiruppadaṟku-t-tāṉ ‘ahamukam’ alladu ‘antarmukham’ eṉḏṟu peyar.
The name ‘ahamukham’ [facing inwards or facing I] or ‘antarmukham’ [facing inwards] [refers] only to keeping the mind in the heart without letting it go out.
ஹ்ருதயத்திலிருந்து வெளிவிடுவதற்குத்தான் ‘பகிர்முக’ மென்று பெயர்.
hrudayattilirundu veḷiviḍuvadaṟku-t-tāṉ ‘bahirmukham’ eṉḏṟu peyar.
The name ‘bahirmukham’ [facing outwards] [refers] only to letting it go out from the heart.
இவ்விதமாக மனம் ஹ்ருதயத்திற் றங்கவே, எல்லா நினைவுகளுக்கும் மூலமான நான் என்பது போய் எப்பொழுது முள்ள தான் மாத்திரம் விளங்கும்.
i-v-vidham-āha maṉam hrudayattil taṅgavē, ellā niṉaivugaḷukkum mūlam-āṉa nāṉ eṉbadu pōy eppoṙudum uḷḷa tāṉ māttiram viḷaṅgum.
When the mind remains [firmly fixed] in the heart in this manner, what is called I [the ego], which is the root [foundation, cause or origin] of all thoughts, will depart and oneself, who always exists, alone will shine.
நான் என்னும் நினைவு கிஞ்சித்து மில்லா விடமே சொரூபமாகும்.
nāṉ eṉṉum niṉaivu kiñcittum illā v-iḍam-ē sorūpam āhum.
Only the place where the thought called I [the ego] does not exist at all [or even a little] is svarūpa [one’s ‘own form’ or real nature].
அதுவே ‘மௌன’ மெனப்படும்.
adu-v-ē ‘mauṉam’ eṉa-p-paḍum.
That alone is called ‘mauna’ [silence].
இவ்வாறு சும்மா விருப்பதற்குத்தான் ‘ஞான திருஷ்டி’ என்று பெயர்.
ivvāṟu summā v-iruppadaṟku-t-tāṉ ‘ñāṉa-diruṣṭi’ eṉḏṟu peyar.
The name ‘jñāna-dṛṣṭi’ [‘knowledge-seeing’, experiencing true knowledge or real awareness] [refers] only to just being (summā-v-iruppadu) in this manner.
சும்மா விருப்பதாவது மனத்தை ஆன்மசொரூபத்தில் லயிக்கச் செய்வதே.
summā v-iruppadāvadu maṉattai āṉma-sorūpattil layikka-c ceyvadē.
What just being (summā-v-iruppadu) is is only making the mind dissolve [disappear or die] in ātma-svarūpa [the ‘own form’ or real nature of oneself].
அன்றி, பிறர் கருத்தறிதல், முக்கால முணர்தல், தூர தேசத்தில் நடப்பன வறிதல் ஆகிய இவை ஞான திருஷ்டி யாகமாட்டா.
aṉḏṟi, piṟar karuttu aṟidal, mu-k-kālam uṇardal, dūra dēśattil naḍappaṉa v-aṟidal āhiya ivai ñāṉa-diruṣṭi y-āha-māṭṭā.
Besides [this state of just being, in which the ego is dissolved forever in ātma-svarūpa and therefore does not rise at all to know anything else], knowing the thoughts of others, knowing the three times [past, present and future], and knowing what is happening in distant places cannot be jñāna-dṛṣṭi.
Sri Ramana Teachings Michael. Not sure that I understand the last long sentence. Feeling that I know the thoughts of others, feeling the three times, feeling ( imagining) what is happening in distant places. These cannot be.
Is that correct?
Whether such 'psychic' or 'supernatural' abilities are possible or not, there are people who believe them to be possible, and in India they are popularly described as 'jñāna-dṛṣṭi', so Bhagavan is just repudiating this wrong idea about jñāna-dṛṣṭi. As he says, the true meaning of jñāna-dṛṣṭi is silence, our real nature, the state of just being, in which the mind is dissolved forever and in which there is therefore not even the slightest trace of ego. The implication is that jñāna-dṛṣṭi is not knowing anything other than oneself.
As to whether such abilities are possible or not, the mind is māyā, the power of self-deception, so everything created by it is an illusion, so by training it in a particular way by yogic practices or other such means it may seem to acquire all sorts of 'psychic' or 'supernatural' abilities, but like everything else that the mind experiences, these are all just an illusion. What is real or what actually is only ātma-svarūpa (the ‘own form’ or real nature of oneself), as he says in the first sentence of the next paragraph of Nāṉ Ār?, and ātma-svarūpa is just pure awareness, which means awareness of nothing other than itself.
Sri Ramana Teachings Thank you for that. Actually I was thinking in terms of everyday convictions and assumptions we have, not only of the yogis, but I see it is all on the same plane.
I also appreciate your occasional references to the Big Bang theory which we so matter-of-factly accept.
🙏👍
Is it possible to have a word to word translation of this masterpiece of Shri Bhagwan similar to the one we have for Arunachala Sthiti Pamchakam and Updesh Noon Malai? Available english translations - except those by Michel- are not always faithful to original. Following the text word by word will help to understand the text better.
Yes, sometime I would like to write a detailed explanation of each sentence, including the meaning of each word in it and its syntax, but if or when I will have time to do so is in Bhagavan's hands.
Sri Ramana Teachings: ,May Bhagwan get that accomplished soon.
@@SriRamanaTeachings Still praying to Bhagwan to get this accomplish soon.
🙏🪔