Will Javascript Take Over the World? | Brian Kernighan and Lex Fridman

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 674

  • @nagualdesign
    @nagualdesign 4 ปีที่แล้ว +558

    When I started learning JavaScript 20 years ago I never imagined being able to write programs for mobile phones.

    • @BrownOpsLeak
      @BrownOpsLeak 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      zoidberg444 that’s your loss

    • @goldanimal3931
      @goldanimal3931 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@zoidberg444 take a strongly typed language

    • @Morwha
      @Morwha 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      Let alone making desktop applications for Linux, Windows, and Mac with just JavaScript, HTML, and CSS. It is a powerful language

    • @conorm2524
      @conorm2524 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      I started JS 20minutes ago and can't imagine making apps or websites. I need some inspiration.

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@zoidberg444 yikes somebody shat in your cereal apparently. JS haters are so funny lol

  • @shahrikamin4699
    @shahrikamin4699 4 ปีที่แล้ว +675

    “Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript.”
    - Jeff Atwood

    • @homelessengineer5498
      @homelessengineer5498 4 ปีที่แล้ว +45

      It's like a JavaScript version of Rule 34

    • @caiomatheus817
      @caiomatheus817 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      And will have a github repository about it.

    • @kassios
      @kassios 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      this is the absolute truth of the universe!

    • @enriquesneffels3053
      @enriquesneffels3053 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      best commentary ever!

    • @dinobotpwnz
      @dinobotpwnz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Well it's Turing complete so that's everything.

  • @cryto-alex5869
    @cryto-alex5869 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    It was such a pleasure listening to this genius (Brian) and what a fine personality he exhibits. You guys are so fortunate to have him at MIT. I also noticed he wears a $1 watch, which goes to show that the simple life is what counts.

  • @albin1568
    @albin1568 4 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    Seriously though, it boggles my mind how big the whole javascript web dev ecosystem is. I just know how to use some of the endless number of tools and frameworks, and that in and of itself takes time, and in another 5 years time the whole ecosystem is completely different XD

  • @0xCAFEF00D
    @0xCAFEF00D 4 ปีที่แล้ว +628

    A more worrying prospect than ai takeover.

    • @BM-qb3oo
      @BM-qb3oo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@funny-video-TH-cam-channel javascript is not running any web services. It is not the basis of those services, it is the basis of the user's experience to that service.

    • @marcellmonteirocruz2475
      @marcellmonteirocruz2475 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I love javascript, and I think this needs to be the top comment, plz people make it happen :D

    • @SahilP2648
      @SahilP2648 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@BM-qb3oo you sure about that? This page itself has so much javascript that it will boggle your mind

    • @DustinSilva
      @DustinSilva 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      not even remotely worrying imo

    • @BM-qb3oo
      @BM-qb3oo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@SahilP2648 Yeah, on the client side you dopehead.

  • @hornfan722
    @hornfan722 4 ปีที่แล้ว +83

    Lex your clips!!!! Way to adapt to TH-cam's common growth. Clips = digestable, and the long form is not mutually exlusive! This is a great clip for me a beginning coder curious about the broader subjects

    • @johnli8662
      @johnli8662 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      this video is very good.

  • @jerickodoggo9595
    @jerickodoggo9595 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    As some one who learned Javascript in school. I was INFURIATED by libraries. I get super anxious if I don't understand how something is working in case it breaks... If you're working on a group project and you're the "programmer guy" for the team. If shit isn't working its definitely going to be your fault - or at least you should be able to fix it. As a new programmer, they really made me anxious when I was learning something from somebody and the first thing they say is," Alright before we get started download libraries x & y, etc..."

  • @spoddie
    @spoddie ปีที่แล้ว +6

    It's a shame that people like Brian don't get the public recognition they deserve. Within comp sci of course he's well known, but his contribution to society isn't really well known.

  • @jayartist_
    @jayartist_ 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I hated JS when starting with it, as I came from working with Java and C#. Now I absolutely love it

  • @tysully5245
    @tysully5245 4 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    I enjoy your content, never stop exploring and learning

    • @OsvaldoBayerista
      @OsvaldoBayerista 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@robbyz512 how many hours do you sleep?

  • @1Thor61storm8
    @1Thor61storm8 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    How can I possibly say when people ask me that I know javascript when the writer of the most iconic C language book considers himself a non expert on the subject??

    • @Crytoma
      @Crytoma 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Shame he considered himself retired at this point.

  • @zebrawien
    @zebrawien 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Javascript has its pros and cons. Thats about it. Use it wisely, it is a wonderful language.

    • @dawidvanstraaten
      @dawidvanstraaten 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      JavaScript is a con

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dawidvanstraaten your birth was a con

  • @exvimmer
    @exvimmer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I know JavaScript, TypeScript, Python, Go and C and I'm learning other languages while I'm keeping myself updated. I love JavaScript, but I think TypeScript will be more important than JS, because of its types and strictness.

  • @metallicbeast
    @metallicbeast 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you Brian, your contribution to humanity is huge, hats off to you good sir and I hope to invite you a beer if you visit Las Vegas.

  • @TheHamoodz
    @TheHamoodz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Here is the thing though, as a robotics engineer working entirely in C and C++, I find coding in JavaScript to be a much more FUN experience. Would I use it for my robotics applications? Of course not. But if I'm trying to make a quick demo or code up a weekend project or have some sort of interactive application, I find JavaScript to be the way to go.

    • @TheMrVogue
      @TheMrVogue 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Exactly, this is what js excels at. Decent performance, especially with all the threading it's doing under the hood, and very free in terms of style, which allows you to write decent code fast. (obviously some styles are superior to others, and some are more elegant, but less performant... I'm looking at you functional methods :p) but it definitely takes away a lot of low level control that less abstracted languages provide, which is crucial in certain applications... And dynamic typing while convenient is a double edged sword

    • @linchenpal
      @linchenpal 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Exactly!

    • @arpanacharya1318
      @arpanacharya1318 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Raspberry Pi & Node.js ?

  • @nordwarp
    @nordwarp 4 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    Although it has some ugly bits, I'm totally in love with JS, I'm sticking to it and I don't care whether it takes over the world or some powerplant (this is where I'm gonna be sarcastic about your sarcasm, haha)

    • @enriqueflorendo
      @enriqueflorendo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Es6

    • @arik_dev
      @arik_dev 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@enriqueflorendo Typescript

    • @Soremwar
      @Soremwar 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ES11. TypeScript needs some serious improvement if it wants to keep relevant IMHO

    • @slapmyfunkybass
      @slapmyfunkybass 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      JS is the biggest pile of coding crap I’ve seen. It’s take on oop has so much sugar coating on it anyone thinking they’re using real oop is in denial.

    • @enriqueflorendo
      @enriqueflorendo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      slapmyfunkybass said by the haters cause JS slowly taking over everything.

  • @AbhishekSharma-el1nu
    @AbhishekSharma-el1nu 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    "and down comes gazillion megabytes of something..". Kind of like the fact that he used MB. lol

  • @BangMaster96
    @BangMaster96 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Brian Kernighan, possibly one of the most important Computer Scientist in history

  • @miraclo3
    @miraclo3 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I 100% credit the advancement of JavaScript towards the script kitties playing games like RuneScape and learning to code as children growing up and going to college and learning to use and abuse this language in ways that we never thought of before.

    • @Soremwar
      @Soremwar 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Like me?
      Or like the Facebook guys (Hermes Engine and JS contributors)?
      Or like the Google guys (V8 engine and JS contributors)?
      Or like the Microsoft guys (TypeScript and JS contributors)?
      Or the Mozilla guys (SpiderMonkey engine, owners and contributors of the language)?
      Or the Amazon guys(JS contributors)?
      Or the TC39 guys (JS committee for updates and contributions)?
      Just cause you don't like the language doesn't mean it's a child's toy, or non-relevant now that (arguably) better technologies started competing with it

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Says the "script kittie".

  • @MijanurRahman-jo1st
    @MijanurRahman-jo1st 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    In web development JavaScript is best than any other languages yet.

  • @JM-jc1vz
    @JM-jc1vz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Lex as a Lisp guy you gotta get Sussman and Abelson on!

  • @vikramkrishnan6414
    @vikramkrishnan6414 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    Yes, there are a crap ton of lousy npm packages (less so in my experience in pip). However, BK is assuming that coding from scratch would introduce fewer bugs than a library that has millions of eyeballs on it, and I am not sure that is necessarily true. IMHO, in-house libraries and frameworks have uniformly been more buggy and painful to use relative to the publicly available ones

    • @keffbarn
      @keffbarn 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Agree, problem is not the usage of packages and a package manager. The problem is making sure to use a good quality package, and the chance of doing that is a lot higher with something open source on npm with hundreds of contributers and some company backing then an in house package, developed by that one guy that is probably not working at the same company anymore.

    • @mattpen7966
      @mattpen7966 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      correct, i dont think BK is suggesting we code from scratch either but he should've highlighted what you said about eyeballs.

    • @metalalive2006
      @metalalive2006 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Clean architecture, good quality of code also matters in any library while you have to debug with the library you are using , without documentation and community support

    • @mattpen7966
      @mattpen7966 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@metalalive2006 typically third party libraries in js are open source and community maintained so you can see the architecture yourself and its maintained by many others.

    • @OFfic3R1K
      @OFfic3R1K 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      That is an illusion we'd all so much want to be true. The ugly truth of open-source is that your assumption of having "millions of eyeballs on it" doesn't necessarily translate to constant quality contributions. Lack of funding, wish of original developers to move on and other factors have proven that you should not blindly rely on community of "others" keeping libraries in a good condition. When everyone is responsible, nobody is responsible.
      Heartbleed was a great example of that.
      Thankfully key IT companies and foundations have started numerous projects to change that, to keep people interested and to support important libraries financially. But I am afraid that an npm package that gets stale for one reason or another in the dependency tree might cause havoc on this whole industry.

  • @joseortiz_io
    @joseortiz_io 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is awesome! Glad to see you were able to interview him!

  • @mithunparab1244
    @mithunparab1244 4 ปีที่แล้ว +276

    .js : front end
    .js: back end
    ;)
    Nuclear power plant using JavaScript 😆😂

    • @wmd5645
      @wmd5645 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Im sure the hardened IC's are driven from a web browser.

    • @vasy4321
      @vasy4321 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I would, just not random npm libs

    • @kvartlapp9724
      @kvartlapp9724 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      "Nuclear power plant using JavaScript". Thank you very much for this, there will be no sound sleep this week.

    • @david6099
      @david6099 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      The software running that plant would be no more complicated than a modern day backend api lol Node.js could probably run it faster and more efficiently than python

    • @joech1065
      @joech1065 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      ”Cannot read property 'reactorCooling' of undefined”
      - Mommy, why daddy has no hair and his skin peels off his face when touch I him?
      - Javascript

  • @0o0o00o00000
    @0o0o00o00000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +94

    The latest spaceX shuttle UI was built in JS.

    • @agent-sz2qj
      @agent-sz2qj 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Really ?

    • @peppigue
      @peppigue 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      I'm thinking one may build critical stuff in high level language if one tests and tests and tests and gets it right. But supercritical stuff needs to be so perfect that lower level coding is necessary. One still needs lots of testing, but the code is transparent and easier too foolproof.

    • @0o0o00o00000
      @0o0o00o00000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      agent 47 Yes. JS is a pretty legit language despite the hard critique Brian gives it. It does have some security issues but knowing what they are helps a lot. When it comes to installing packages. It sounds like Brian did not use JS much and resorted to installing packages for most of what he did but he does have a valid point. It can certainly be risky.

    • @0o0o00o00000
      @0o0o00o00000 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Petter Nybråten maybe something like that. JS is used in a lot of areas like this but maybe for more life critical code they do resort to something more low level? Idk though....I can’t say I know everything but, to your point, a language does what you tell it to do. If you’re using JS don’t pull in a package for everything 😆

    • @0o0o00o00000
      @0o0o00o00000 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree. Tests are key. Most languages can be used for just about anything but sometimes choosing a language based on the task at hand is necessary.

  • @fytubevw
    @fytubevw 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The Python example of gazillion packages coming to the machine with a 'pip install' is good point. I found R to be slightly more succinct at least for very beginning steps in data science. But these are very early steps.

  • @VetorDigital
    @VetorDigital 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Things like WebAssembly, Blazor, etc are already making a dent into the web universe and its getting momentum fast, so hopefully the days of JavaScript are numbered

  • @OFfic3R1K
    @OFfic3R1K 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    _"JavaScript was seen as probably the ugliest language possible"_
    I must admit that syntactic sugar and spread of libraries that restrict developers to a certain way of thought has improved "the JavaScript experience", but there are still so many ways you can shoot yourself in the foot and write absolutely insane spaghetti code that I still don't recognize JavaScript as being on par with other "classic" languages. And I write JS code daily.

    • @Daniel_WR_Hart
      @Daniel_WR_Hart 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't so relaxed when it came to implicit type coercion, but ES6, optional chaining, and nullish coalescing made me like it more than Java. On the plus side TypeScript is now native to Deno and Bun.

  • @laudbentil8184
    @laudbentil8184 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great Episodes Lex! Keep up the amazing work!

  • @johnroach7607
    @johnroach7607 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "That's a very perceptive kind of question." - thank you Lex

  • @OwenFernau
    @OwenFernau 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wow the part about working with libraries resonates so hard. That's the only way I've done any programming and it felt the opposite of holistic.

  • @surferriness
    @surferriness 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Third semester IT students be like:
    "OMG He's literally me!!"

  • @coolworx
    @coolworx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    First class functions and closure is what makes JS extraordinary despite it's numerous warts.

    • @vetiarvind
      @vetiarvind 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Agree it's a functional programming language.

  • @user-up8pd6id9s
    @user-up8pd6id9s 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This notion that you have no idea what you're pulling down via pip or npm is completely false, it's highly encouraged to look at the code you're adding to your app. You don't simply google, install and then hope it all works out - you have to dig into the libraries, compare options and figure out if it's what your project needs.

  • @0xCAFEF00D
    @0xCAFEF00D 4 ปีที่แล้ว +71

    I feel that lots of things shouldn't be written as poorly as it is. I find that in my general use of software reliably and performance is what I miss the most.
    I question every day why there's apps on my phone that takes many seconds to load to display colored boxes and text (no heavy assets like big images/video). Can we not hold a higher standard than that? There needs to be better understanding of computation waste and we need to judge software harsher for failing.
    And why shouldn't the specs of a 10 year old phone offer flawless performance in those circumstances? People actually buy new phones to improve their experience. And we've all written more efficient and robust software than this before. Why not keep doing that? It's not entangled with Javascript specifically. But absent moving to new languages (like wasm, hopefully. Or native) I don't see a future that fulfills these ideals with languages like JS.

    • @joech1065
      @joech1065 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Reliability and performance? WASM? Oh, I have a language just for you. It's called Rust and it is as good as they describe it in love poems on Hackernews. It is like as if Haskell had a baby with c++ and took performance of the latter with safety and abstractive power of the former. I think it is very possible to have languages that have all three: speed, safety, and productivity. But Rust is the first example that manages to get all three. c++ has speed but not safety. Haskell has safety but not speed (even when it fast it has latency due to GC). JS has memory safety, but no good enough type system to guarantee elimination of most bugs, like Haskell or Rust do. Also, performance benefit from safety. Ironically, one can say that c and c++ don't have maximum speed because due to lack of safety it is impossible to write large scale high performance parallel code in them. Projects like Firefox tried it several times and they failed. You need a very good type system that can handle reasoning about memory safety and data races, because it is very hard to plug all holes and reason about all the ways parallel code can run into problems. And fighting bugs in either category can kill a project because they can be incredibly time wasting to debug.

    • @_smhmd
      @_smhmd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      It strikes me that you are commenting on SPAs and client-side javascript, but in my experience, there is nothing more slow on a regular basis than a WordPress website (probably built by a non-coder.) You can't democratize web development and hold it to the highest of standards. I'm not against neither.

    • @MijanurRahman-jo1st
      @MijanurRahman-jo1st 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@_smhmd Right

    • @SahilP2648
      @SahilP2648 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Well that's the thing though. You can very efficiently use memory and computing power if you are coding it in C++ assuming you have all the libraries needed. But C++ is super difficult to code in and one cannot be productive with it. But because of languages at a higher abstraction layer than C++, it has become easier and productive to develop apps in. Depending on the scenario, it will be java, C#, python or javascript. No one apart from the gaming industry uses C++ and it uses specifically because of the need for optimized code in games. So yeah it is a sad reality that a normal app is nowadays 200MB in size and consumes perhaps the same or more RAM, for no apparent reason, while a movie with decent quality starts from 1-2GB. But because of this you are getting sweet animations and features in the app and overall 10000x more productivity in your project.

    • @peppigue
      @peppigue 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm just getting started with programming, having focused on c++ first. I think the same as you re slow apps, and I'm realizing now how monstrous the coding world is, with all the library utilisation that is modern coding which makes creating easier and optimization harder. At least some apps like Twitter are fast, and I bet we will see significant improvements as companies realize what a difference speed alone makes in the ux.

  • @Huy_Nguyen_USA
    @Huy_Nguyen_USA 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Typescript gives JavaScript syntactic sugar to make it palatable. I'm seriously looking into web assembly.

  • @mattpeachey1210
    @mattpeachey1210 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You both made some very interesting points about the "package" mentality of modern programming. That being said, I wonder if you see any value in the open-source nature of these packages? Do the benefits of having a large community constantly iterating and improving a specific package outweigh the issues you mentioned in this clip?

  • @justinoneill2837
    @justinoneill2837 4 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    couldn't agree more on npm packages.. you really have no idea what you're getting. npm now tells you about "risky" packages and gives you the ability to "audit"

    • @_smhmd
      @_smhmd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      When people were faced with importing from URLs in Deno, they were shocked to discover that nothing really had changed.

    • @ricosrealm
      @ricosrealm 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      and how is this better than any open source software from any other language/platform? You'll have to always get your software from well-maintained reputable sources.

    • @_smhmd
      @_smhmd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @かわいいreo It furthered the culture of wariness and tore down a facade, fixing the big node_modules issue in the process and decentralizing module distribution.

    • @Soremwar
      @Soremwar 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @かわいいreo Since it is based in the more modern JavaScript vision and ecosystem most of the useless dependencies are removed from the modules written for Deno. So even though it didnt aimed for it, it improved a lot the module design mentality

  • @whiskeyburns5230
    @whiskeyburns5230 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Deno is basically made to tackle everything that node lost in.

    • @fullstack_journey
      @fullstack_journey 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Deno will take time to pick up pace but I really hope it does. Cuz typescript is everything what JavaScript couldn't be..

  • @JonnyBeoulve
    @JonnyBeoulve 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I work on a full stack JavaScript stack on a significantly large codebase for a fortune 500 company. Javascript is absolutely taking over the world.

    • @frogaaopillmanoddd985
      @frogaaopillmanoddd985 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      yes you are the greatest, now take your pills and shut up, madhouse staff coming soon and taking care of you

  • @geoffreyschuchardt5350
    @geoffreyschuchardt5350 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This was so helpful to hear!! I recently have started my first language with JavaScript and I’ve been thinking it seems a little rediculous how everyone just says to bulk download stuff for a website and that npm needs all this stuff but no one actually will dare to touch on what any of it does and I mean I’m sure there’s some people who know a lot or a little of it but it sorta makes sense you just gotta take what you get. I’ve also wondered about security concerns and I guess this sorta explained that too in a very easy and concise way :P it seems like a vast ocean where new people are trying to wade around until they can learn to scuba dive into the past but honestly that just feels so backwards. And I know you can learn the history of stuff and go from there but i mean all I know is that this field can’t be the fun it was for the original generations who were developing things completely new. It only makes sense that the barrier to entry was lower and hence more creative types were in the field rather than analytical people. Haha I might get flamed for that but my guess is most people would agree with it when you think about it

  • @dunisanisambo9946
    @dunisanisambo9946 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That’s the only thing I hate about JavaScript, I always feel like I am not in control but makes sense because functional programming is becoming mainstream.

  • @markw496
    @markw496 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Them: You probably don't want to program a nuclear power plant with Javascript.
    Me: Hold my beer.

  • @coolemur976
    @coolemur976 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    2:07 wait until Brian will hear about Deno and its standard libraries.
    3:10 there are security issues with any programming language.
    3:08 if you don't understand how third party libraries work, you will definitely won't understand how standard libraries work.
    2:00 building libraries on top of each other is just how programming work. You write code using provided standard libraries (that might have their own security issues and bugs), or you can write code using available third party libraries, or you can write everything yourself.

  • @Nicxlive
    @Nicxlive 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Only thing I strongly disagree, JavaScript is not ugly, it is beautiful

  • @gigik64
    @gigik64 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Oh God, that'd be hell of dystopian nightmare.

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      You're already living in it. Hell, you couldn't have written this comment without JS.

    • @valizeth4073
      @valizeth4073 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@okie9025 It could, if Js didn't exist. Another language would have been used. A language is a tool that should fit the application and not the other way around

  • @kelbiekelbie909
    @kelbiekelbie909 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Indeed, you do not want to use JavaScript to run a nuclear powerplant but most people don't run nuclear powerplants. Most people just want to create a cool animation for their website.

    • @vanillaslice1945
      @vanillaslice1945 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Absolutely, I don't think they were out to disparage it in any way. Just commenting on it's evolution and it's potentials.

    • @spidey677
      @spidey677 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      JS cannot be used to make native mobile apps. It has its major drawbacks

    • @kelbiekelbie909
      @kelbiekelbie909 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@spidey677 React Native can handle most of what you want to acheive in a mobile app and it doesn't prevent you from writing native Java/Swift if need be.

    • @spidey677
      @spidey677 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kelbiekelbie909 Ok, re-make me Mortal Kombat 11 on mobile using React Native.

    • @kelbiekelbie909
      @kelbiekelbie909 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@spidey677 no

  • @djhart25
    @djhart25 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    2:25 makes me feel better about myself ha.. this has been one of my biggest hurdles learning to program

  • @XKS99
    @XKS99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +107

    We can only hope Webassembly will turn back the untyped hordes and save the world.

    • @TheVincent0268
      @TheVincent0268 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      It will. Microsoft implemented it with Blazor. Many none-JS programmers can make rich web clients now.

    • @XKS99
      @XKS99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Vincent I’m using Blazor (server side) on a project right now. We are evaluating running onwebassembly. This doesn’t change the fact that webassembly still has 0.001% of the adoption of even typescript.

    • @TheVincent0268
      @TheVincent0268 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@XKS99I can't look into the future but I give WebAssembly/Blazor a good chance to become a first class citizen. An important difference with for example Silverlight that it is not some MS plugin, but a well thought of runtime that it is adopted by the major browsers. I think Wasm and JS can live happily together.

    • @autohmae
      @autohmae 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TheVincent0268 I'm actually on the Javascript side. But Rush compiled to WebAssembly probably might make more sense.

    • @meamzcs
      @meamzcs 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Jup... Let's pray for it to happen... JS will always be a part of the web and for small sites it does the job but hopefully WASM can establish itself as another option with widespread browser support so that you don't need to write big webapps in JS anymore or compile to it...

  • @okseaj
    @okseaj 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    JS is great for getting something up and running fast, but I think long term it is not a very sustainable choice. And in general, as neat of a language it is, JS has so many frustrating properties that make it difficult to deal with. If I want to experiment and hack something together, it's fine. If I want to write robust software, then I want something more structured and opinionated. As great as Node.js is, NPM is a mess and I don't want to write software that relies on this style of package management. This is why I prefer something like Go - you have to be explicit in how you write your code and most things you need come right out of the box.

  • @bluedragon4168
    @bluedragon4168 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    No idea why I'm watching this in the middle of the night instead of sleeping

  • @Pete_YT
    @Pete_YT 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    SpaceX use JavaScript with Web Components for their user interfaces, including what astronauts use in the Dragon Crew. Tracking the dependencies and libraries as not as big deal as described in this video, that is what the package.json and lock file is for.

    • @ER-sf4zo
      @ER-sf4zo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I have to agree with you. And I thought the comments made about python to be a bit shallow. Python has pip lock files. That's why we have documentation and requirement files. Dependancies and abstraction exist on multiple levels in programming. Great talk nonetheless however he is showing that even an expert veteran in the programming world sometimes doesn't know what he's talking about and relies on his larger then life reputation to make blanket statements. I have a great deal of respect for the man tho. Lex does ask great questions at times.

    • @CortezBumf
      @CortezBumf 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Really, all JS needs is a standard lib like other C based langs have.

    • @debanjanbarman7212
      @debanjanbarman7212 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Ya just to make the UI, Rest of the thing is done with C++

    • @TheMrVogue
      @TheMrVogue 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CortezBumf those are what the built in classes and methods are though. You can get *really* far without using most packages, and if you only use the most prolific packages/frameworks you usually won't go wrong

    • @TheMrVogue
      @TheMrVogue 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@debanjanbarman7212 While you can run your web app's backend with a C++ compiled application, it's not a quick way to solve large problems. Although I'm sure there are plenty of frameworks that defy my statement 😂. It'll sure be fast as fuck though (as long as you don't do something stupid optimization wise)

  • @MtSaEt
    @MtSaEt 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great content Lex!

  • @mikestaub
    @mikestaub 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Javascript has already taken over. But it is just a compile target now that we have babel and typescript.

  • @onepunchman8721
    @onepunchman8721 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    When JavaScript will get an arbitrary precision decimal type, it will take over ML and will be more important than ever
    You will see!

  • @zoloftdependant5246
    @zoloftdependant5246 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i always feel a little offended whenever people say mean things about javascript, not because i think its a good language, but because i like making money

  • @JG_1998
    @JG_1998 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I for one would love to see a javascript based nuclear power plant. Just for the laughs.

  • @xenialxerous2441
    @xenialxerous2441 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video really!! Worth watching the full length..!!

  • @ashiamonteiro4886
    @ashiamonteiro4886 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Dude...so your 'passion' project is entering into the realm of dharma. From a brother

  • @danielclausmeyer
    @danielclausmeyer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    When a npm package doesn’t work you can look up the code in the GitHub repository it’s stored in. When you found the issue you can create an issue report and communicate with the developers directly. You can even ask the developers for changes in the API or new features or just generally ask for help. If you want to know if the code does shady things like logging data you can look it up in the repository.
    Everyone can code something and add new features and possibilities.
    I don’t think you can do all of that for standard libraries in other languages. Usually you’re stuck with what you get and a documentation. If you want changes you have to wait and hope for the next version.
    I think JavaScript is superior because it evolves much faster.

  • @burakdev
    @burakdev 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    if something doesn't work...
    just "pip install this..." LOL He just described my problem solving method with python. 🤣🤣

  • @data7315
    @data7315 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    SpaceX runs Javascript on Clientside in the Crew Dragon Space Capsule for the Astronaut Graphical Userinterface. Boeing does not and stranded with its Starliner Capsule because of a potential catastrophic Softwaere bug^^

  • @RankMotion
    @RankMotion 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Remember that the first attempt for creating apps in the browser was with Java, the dumb sister of C++, but it failed miserably, then JS was invented

  • @d3j4v00
    @d3j4v00 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Jawascript sounds like a winner

  • @gajiodea
    @gajiodea 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Will?

  • @grail9558
    @grail9558 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    One size does not fit all. Different tools for different purposes. So I would say no, JavaScript will not take over the world.

    • @democracydiesindarkness5486
      @democracydiesindarkness5486 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      You are only adult in comment section.. JavaScript is mess when it comes to oop, even google try to reduce codebase from JavaScript using dart..

  • @curiousMe1000
    @curiousMe1000 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Lets see how well this video matures. When power plants actually start running on Js.

  • @RhettReisman
    @RhettReisman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This man is older than Joe Biden. Let that sink in.

  • @jacquesduplessis6175
    @jacquesduplessis6175 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Npm actually scares me. I've learned to get along with javascript, it's not so bad, but I have seen some strange pieces of code that you can only create in JS though.

  • @immortaljanus
    @immortaljanus 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm a proficient Python user. The first day on the new job (Big Data + ML), the senior developer tells me: "99% of our ETL is in JS."
    Oh brother...

  • @oldcountryman2795
    @oldcountryman2795 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "Will Javascript Take Over the World?" Oh God, I hope not. WebAssembly please.
    I remember a computer science professor in the '90s telling me that someday all software would be written in Java because it was portable.

  • @TheRealCasadaro
    @TheRealCasadaro 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Guys.

  • @tristangruener9571
    @tristangruener9571 4 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    Space X used javascript (react) for the Dragon capsule UI.... not bad!

    • @andrew.r.lukasik
      @andrew.r.lukasik 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      That was the only time I was seriously dissapointed by SpaceX. Imagine alien civilization finding that capsule... they would conclude we're total morons. Ugh, what a shame.

    • @enriqueflorendo
      @enriqueflorendo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      React ftw

    • @jimothyus
      @jimothyus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Cant beat the browser when it comes to UI

    • @SahilP2648
      @SahilP2648 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@andrew.r.lukasik well actually almost all the UI today is designed with HTML, CSS and JS. Even the UI on your phones is designed with a combination of these 3 languages. And React sits on top of JS so yeah.

    • @andrew.r.lukasik
      @andrew.r.lukasik 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      ​@@SahilP2648 HTML+CSS+X is useful and popular indeed. But. Not thanks to virtues of JS necessarily. Maybe being a decent MVC pattern has something to do with it's success. Maybe.

  • @Minddrops
    @Minddrops 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Kotlin is a very promising language, it makes coding fun again, it will surely become one of the most important programming languages in the next 5 to 10 years

    • @zerberus1097
      @zerberus1097 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I see what you did there

    • @meamzcs
      @meamzcs 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well yes i think Kotlin will become quite big especially because it seamlessly integrates with the whole JVM ecosystem and you can just add Kotlin code to your old Java codebase.
      But yeah i agree... Lots of 'fun' in Kotlin code..
      But in terms of impact in my opinion Rust could be bigger because it has the potential to basically 100% replace C and C++ (even though it doesn't have thst capability yet and even though 100% won't happen) without basically any impact on performance but eliminating a lot of security issues.

  • @Grahfx
    @Grahfx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Javascript is how the world works nowadays: it's mediocre but convenient.

  • @r3n736
    @r3n736 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Javascript still have a LONG way to take PHP place in the backend.
    2020 Sept 7 server usage:
    PHP: 78.9%
    ASP.net: 9.8%
    JavaScript: 1%
    Even though I think C# Net 5 and Typescript are the future.
    Golang, Rust, Erlang, are just too niche, their market % is not even 0.1%.
    Currently, Python is the real competitor for Javascript in the back end with a market rate of 1.4%.
    Ruby was "suppose" to be a dead language but surpassed Java This year.
    Scala another language that is growing faster than JS in the backend and is soon to surpass Java as well.
    C# Net 5 which going to be released this year seems to have a LOT of potential and if things go well, is going to grow back.
    Personally, If I was only a Back end developer I would focus on C# .Net 5. For front end would use typescript.
    Currently using PHP(laravel) and Javascript(vue/react) yet aiming to move into Js front end only next year. Been Full stack is just doing double the job for a little more pay is not worth it.

  • @andrew.r.lukasik
    @andrew.r.lukasik 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Plague, locust, lockdown, riots, imminent wars, now JS... sweet baby Jesus give us strength.

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You discovered JS now?? It has been running the world for the past few years :)

    • @andrew.r.lukasik
      @andrew.r.lukasik 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@okie9025 But of course. I'm sure all the nuclear reactors, critical infrastructure and military installations are running JS by now.

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@andrew.r.lukasik you'd be surprised :) Stay mad.

    • @andrew.r.lukasik
      @andrew.r.lukasik 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@okie9025 Jesus. I didn't know prolonged JS exposure makes people this infantile.

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@andrew.r.lukasik says the seething infant :)

  • @sujitkumarsingh3200
    @sujitkumarsingh3200 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Risks involved in writing code for nuclear power station or to take over the world using any programming language are equal if you are unaware of the codes being used in your application.

  • @bytesizedfeed
    @bytesizedfeed 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    People forget how much backlash there was with C from the assembly language ppl, same story with JavaScript and the C/C++ ppl. performance for JS will come in due time and if there is a selective pressure for it in the market

  • @rakeshmallick9161
    @rakeshmallick9161 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    In the future human language programming will be enough, AI based compiler convert it to machine code.

    • @BeatSyncBytes
      @BeatSyncBytes 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Isn’t human language can never be context free

    • @MrChickenpoulet
      @MrChickenpoulet 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      ye the GPT3 thing I saw in the last couple of days is really funny, obviously it's not "that" useful, but still incredible and we want to see what the future is !

    • @viniciuslongo4622
      @viniciuslongo4622 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @UTubeChannel Imperative speech is Less dependent of a context.

  • @ivanhale8114
    @ivanhale8114 4 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    Always bet on JavaScript.
    - God

    • @oatscurry
      @oatscurry 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I laughed

    • @kylemacarthur9863
      @kylemacarthur9863 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cmd script echoes

    • @danvindsouza2725
      @danvindsouza2725 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      *It's Not a Probability That JS Will Continue to Evolve But A Certainty now! Wow! Love the Way JavaScript has Evolved Over The Last Couple Years*

  • @delicious_seabass
    @delicious_seabass 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    When hell freezes over.

    • @e.h.5680
      @e.h.5680 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Exactly. JavaScript is on its deathbed thanks to WebAssembly.

  • @anthonyleonard
    @anthonyleonard 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    alert("Thank You!");

  • @tangocukedi1
    @tangocukedi1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    javascript is one of the most beautiful languages

  • @tempprofile6715
    @tempprofile6715 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think the Reactive programming in JavaScript has been the game-changer. Spring Boot (Java) now has WebFlux to bring this to Java. I have heard a lot of good things about Python yet I find it difficult to switch from my current preferred language (aka the only language I know well) Java. Whenever new programmers ask me as I say learn Python or JS and that Java is not for everyone.

    • @r3n736
      @r3n736 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      You should look into C# and .Net 5. Which I think is the future and Microsoft doing really good lately with VSCode, Typescript and now they own github as well.

    • @r3n736
      @r3n736 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@redsnflr Javascript only has 1% of market share in the backend and still have a long way to dominate the backend. PHP is currently the king.
      2020 Sept 7 backend server-side usage:
      PHP: 78.9%
      ASP.net: 9.8%
      Python: 1.4%
      Javascript: 1%
      Currently, Python is JS competitor in the backend. I predicted that JS would surpass Python in the backend 2 years ago and didn't happen.
      Personally for Backend I would bet on C# .Net 5 which will be released this year and will become huge in the coming years.
      Now Golang, Rust, Erlang are interesting yet their market share is not even 0.1%. Unless you live near a Tech city or plan to move to one I would not recommend them.

    • @r3n736
      @r3n736 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@abbosshamsiddin Do research on job posts in your area and see what have more job openings, this depends on your area as well what you plan to do, if you want job or start business or be freelancer etc.

  • @Crytoma
    @Crytoma 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Soon we will just have to write up a document describing the problem that we wish the machine to program and the machine will set up all the frameworks and coupling itself. Learn Machine Learning now while you can if you don't wish to become redundant in the coming future as some jobs.

    • @SahilP2648
      @SahilP2648 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bullshit argument. Let me quote myself from another comment on here: "Nah. Perhaps the ONLY job that 'AI' (btw plz called it machine learning. For me, AI is a bullshit term which should be where AGI sits at currently) cannot take over is a programmer's job. A programmer has to basically use his technical creativity where a machine learning algorithm is never ever going to work. Teaching machine learning to code is basically just the same as saying it will surpass its own programming or code or model in a few seconds and become a literal god and calculate what's inside of a black hole or what came before the big bang.... because of it programming itself. Really nice bullshit."

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@SahilP2648 dude, google GPT-3. Strong AI is already creating code from human language.

    • @SahilP2648
      @SahilP2648 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@okie9025 lol I have seen what GPT-3 can do. Its only inserting HTML tags here and there. FAR from actual coding. And also GPT-3 is still the same machine learning system as before. There's nothing relating to improvement in AGI lol. AGI can never be achieved simply because how we function in real life. Think about it.

    • @okie9025
      @okie9025 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@SahilP2648 gpt3 can create entire websites and applications in any language based on text input lmao. Do some more research.

    • @SahilP2648
      @SahilP2648 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@okie9025 start by providing some links to corroborate your claim, not wasting my time

  • @mr_cupcakes1808
    @mr_cupcakes1808 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Answering the question : typescript is sweet af, so I'd say maybe, at least the commercial world

  • @dinobotpwnz
    @dinobotpwnz 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brian is spot on about the bloat of JavaScript and Python. It has nothing to do with the language either. It's a cultural problem that will persist no matter how good the JIT compilers are. I use Python all the time but it's obvious that there is no good interpreted language yet. By "good" I mean something that has a free statement. By "interpreted" I mean a language where you can find a well maintained interpreter after a 5 second Google search instead of having to revive a dead research project.

  • @user-dy6bv3vi7o
    @user-dy6bv3vi7o 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Python: Am I a joke to you?

    • @Whirlwind03
      @Whirlwind03 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yes

    • @prathamyadav3105
      @prathamyadav3105 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Python is second only to JavaScript.

    • @chandrashekard.7543
      @chandrashekard.7543 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      In terms of growth, JavaScript seems to be growing faster.

    • @r3n736
      @r3n736 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@prathamyadav3105 PHP is the king of backend through.
      w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/programming_language/ms/y
      Javascript growth in the backend has been a disappointment through.
      I predicted 2 years ago Javascript would surpass Python in the backend and still have not happened.

  • @Wankeroo
    @Wankeroo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Love javascript. Hate libraries. Hate Composer.

  • @mymusic7262
    @mymusic7262 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes it was fun building from scratch.

  • @harsh_vish
    @harsh_vish 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    as a beginner / self-taught programmer as per my knowledge from javascript, we can do anything with javascript
    even if python is also lower on run but on the same thing in javascript we can do that much faster
    as most developers prefer javascript for their backend, not python
    python is powerful but slow
    javascript is powerful and also faster and every day/week javascript is developing and becoming more powerful
    for me, most powerful language is js not python

  • @LusidDreaming
    @LusidDreaming 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I mean saying JavaScript is now "efficient" is relative. In the world of compiled languages it's still extremely slow, like any Python that doesn't call C/C++. I think Rust is a dark horse to make a much larger "takeover" than something like JavaScript

  • @cryptosfool
    @cryptosfool 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Let history record the greatness of the Human Brain --JavaScript.

  • @RonanMcCabe
    @RonanMcCabe 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Full stack JS gave me a career, but in my opinion all dynamic codebases eventually become unmaintainable.

    • @keffbarn
      @keffbarn 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I would rather say that any project, when it lives long enough and have enough different programmers working on it, tends to get unmaintainable. It's not just dynamic lanugages (although they tend to age faster) but any programming language suffer from this.

    • @SahilP2648
      @SahilP2648 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@keffbarn that's exactly why I always emphasize so much on documentation. And that is exactly the reason why Windows hasn't progressed much in over 20 years.

  • @martiananomaly
    @martiananomaly 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Did people really consider javascript ugly back in the day? I don't know much about its past syntax but the language certainly isn't ugly...

  • @aharef
    @aharef ปีที่แล้ว

    From a computer scientist perspective, these comments are valid I think. But from the perspective of someone who wants to get things done (tiny things like make a data transformation in an automation tool or creating a mockup of a feature for a website in GTM or a simple app to allow colleagues to generate an OpenAthens-link), Javascript is the only thing.
    Everyother language is pretty much useless in the majority of codeable environments, with the exception of Python in some areas. The big plus of Javascript is where it lives: In the browser (usually) and everybody has one and can access my code. Let me know what the best programming language of the world is, someone like me will (and can) not care.
    With Javascript, I can create at least twice the value as compared to the awesome non-JS-developer nextdoor. On the other hand, if there was no non-JS-developers nextdoor, there would be no great product to hack on in the first place, so no, Javascript will not take over the world. The world takes over Javascript.

  • @ekhmoi4552
    @ekhmoi4552 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You can run nuclear power plant perfectly safe on javascript. Don't want to use other's code? Don't use it. It is really that simple :)

  • @drewbuntoo
    @drewbuntoo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    "You have no way you figure out which library broke"
    Except for the stack trace?

  • @NickGled
    @NickGled 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    That suit is getting a bit tight. Looking well from all that training Lex! Well done.