I play on a borrowed cello from the earlier 20th century, which was crafted from cheap wood, but by a skilled master (probably for fun or something). It sounds truly great and lovely. I think it depends a lot on the right proportions and on the love and skill that goes into the building process.
Theo Rosenfeld Actually, the quality of the instrument matters a great deal. You could have Yo-Yo Ma playing a $100 cello and it would still sound like crap.
TheEonGamer I think on the fundamental emotional level a $100 cello in the hands of Yo-Yo Ma would be pretty inspirational. Unless of course you are a technical elitist.
Not with my first student cello. It was horrible, the fingerboard was kind of curved inwards so if you look at one side of it you will notice that curvation. It looks nearly like a kayak lol. And functionally, it doesn't serve the convenience for the players, having the fingerboard curved away from the strings which are above it. This condition would want your fingers to tap extra hard just to put your left hand fingers to make a decent sound of the cello, let alone to play with vibrato (extra hard😂). So back in the time, I always borrowed my teacher's instrument for moments like recitals, exams etc.
Even the cheaply made cello sounds beautiful with the way you play. If I'm as good as you yet poor as I am now, wouldn't mind buying a cheap one if I can't afford the more expensive one.
There's a huge difference in how accurately someone plays a piece of music versus how the cello actually sounds. A bad cello will always be a bad cello regardless of who is playing it. Sadly, the more expensive cellos are still far superior. Cost hasn't really come down at all over the years for a string instrument that actually sounds good. Edit: actually commented before I watched--just watched and yea, that cheap cello sounds god awful. The piece is played well, the cello sounds horrendous.
wood does not need to sit for 30 years before use. With the appropriate sized cut it takes at most 3 years for spruce and about 5 or 6 years for maple. It is also not one piece of wood. The front plate was probably made from one or two pieces of spruce, the back plate from one or two pieces of maple and the sides made from multiple pieces of maple. Many Seraphin back plates are two pieces of wood. There are currently around 300 Seraphins still in circulation. Its nice to think he spent a year working on it but based on approximations on how many of his instruments were in circulation during the time he was alive, he may have cranked that sucker out in less than a week. And a final note, the biggest issue with sound quality with "cheap" cellos has nothing to do with the body of the cello or the wood used. The problem with cheap cellos is almost always the bridge placement, tailpiece quality, and most importantly, string and bow quality. A cheap cello can be retrofitted with better parts and easily match the quality of a master luthier. Unfortunately, many people have trouble getting over the fact that its still a "cheap" cello.
And no. A cheap cello does not turn into a good or great cello merely by its set up. And yes, luthiers wait years before they work on work on wood. Whether its logs floating down the river to Venice or a few decades in a cabin in northern Wisconsin.
Apologies if I sounded angry? I assure you I was coolheaded when I wrote that. I'm not just shooting from the hip either. I'm a luthier(20+yrs), so when I see videos like this I do everything I can to stop the spread of misinformation. And no, most luthiers do not wait decades. The majority wait the aforementioned period of time. Sure, there are rare exceptions depending on the wood cut but typically its only 5 or 6 years for maple and 3 years for spruce. And yes, a cheap cello can be retrofitted with different parts to produce a high quality sound. It's easier just to buy a good cello set up to begin with but that doesn't change the fact that a new tailpiece, strings, and proper bridge placement--can go a long way. Also, no experienced luthier would use a random log floating in a river. Yes, a chemical analysis of Stradivari violins showed they had been soaked in water. That does not mean they were found in a river. A waterlogged hunk of wood from a river would not have any structural stability. Many luthiers suspect Stradivari soaked them briefly after cutting the wood to size, before carving the plates. BIG difference. A handful of biochemists have spread an incredible amount of misinformation about water soaked wood. They've even attempted to make instruments from logs at the bottom of Lake Superior. This practice has already been debunked. Again, I am not angry. My intent is to act as a benevolent voice of reason, speaking from experience in the industry. Cheers
only a professional like him can make a student cello sound that great. But, like he said, it is harder to get a higher volume. On a good cello you don't have to worry to make it sound "good"
Were you guys watching? He said he couldn't tune it any higher, because the measuring won't allow it. He said the string would snap if he tried to. You guys need to *pay attention* before you go around wrongly criticizing people.
I see he has no respect for the , cheap MDF Chinese, student cello .that's as it should be. nothing can beat' a hand built luthier crafted instrument. but you have to start somewhere and not every one can afford such fine instruments . he is fortunate to have found one the very finest are priceless,
old bladder Horn Do I at least have a better chance at having made a good choice by making sure it was actual Spruce and Maple and not 'Basswood' like most cheaper ones I could find? Thanks!
They sound pretty darn close to me, if one costs $100 and the other $3,000! He is also, not playing with the same feeling on the student one. Unfair test at best.
They are also tuned differently, can't you hear it? thing is usually the cheap cellos also need some adjustments like shaving the bridge more and these things do affect tone. Also the cheap one has cheap strings
I know I am bumping a very old comment. However, the problem here isn't highlighted all that well because the musician is very skilled. In the hands of a student or mediocre cellist, the shortcomings of a bad instrument get amplified, more than the virtues of a good instrument become compromised. A student cello that costs less than $1000 USD is likely a rip off. Furthermore, he highlighted something that is totally inexcusable for an instrument, and that is the inability of it to be tuned to concert pitch. For a beginning student, ensembles are a key part of development. If the student cannot properly tune their strings to match their group, it not only compromises them but the entire ensemble. This would never be tolerated. Parents out there looking to find the cheap way out, you're better off renting if you don't want to fork out the cash for ever increasingly sophisticated instruments. A good starter, as I said is around $1000.00. After around 5-6 years of dedicated practice and improvement, the $5000 price tag will be necessary. After one becomes accomplished, master crafted and antique instruments are a must. Hopefully by then, your kid is earning their own money and can do it themselves. If you're an adult who just wants to mess around on a cello a bit, go ahead and buy one of those cheap Chinese cello outfits and have fun. Just don't do it to budding young musicians.
I did the same thing June. I bought a 1000 or so dollar cello at first an got a 3/4 size. I found out as I went along with my lessons an started getting more serious about playing the cello I needed a 4/4's cello. Make sure when you get your first cello that it is the right size because that will have a lot of impact on how you play an progress in your learning. So, now I have a 4/4s size cello the right size an it cost me around $2400.00. Also, don't go by the way the cello looks! Go by the way the cello sounds. If you dont play well at first have your cello teacher go along with you an play the cello for you an you can see the different tones that the cellos have. Love your video an keep them coming!!!
I actually started playing cello in the 6th grade, my cello was worth well over 1,000USD, and it was hand crafted, I remembered my teacher was admiring my instrument, while all the students played the their factory cellos that got donated to the school. It landed me first chair, and an Audition for chamber, which at that time was a huge deal for my school because I was in grade 6, and I was good enough to play in a symphony, Later that same year, I had to give up this angelic instrument because it was either my cello or my house. I had to play the manufacture cello, still had my first chair and audition, but couldn't audition without my instrument, that I had a bond with. all cellos sound differently, but if it is cheaply made, and you work hard to improve yourself, the cello with be beautiful sounding no matter what the price is.
very true! my son has a factory made knilling cello. he made all State as well as first chair chamber orchestra on his factory made cello. yes we are going to upgrade but in my opinion, it's the Musician who makes the instrument sound
Now really? Come on. Very disappointing comparison your attitude with the cheap cello shows that you have an attitude with it. you played it like a beginner would play it yet you choose to play the better cello more professionally. On the cheaper cello you used no vibrato. But you did use it on the more expensive one. Two completely compare something you need to have a an exact comparison and style of playing to be able to compare sounds.
Not necessarily true. You can find a lot of videos on YT where people are reviewing inexpensive instruments and they are playing them beautifully and in tune. The Online Violin and Piano tutor is one. Fiddlershop is another.
Wtf are u talking about, he literally uses vibrato on both, cheap instruments are very difficult to play just because of the amount of effort u have to put in them to sound even half way decent
Got to be honest with you. I can tell a difference but it's not significant. I'm not blown away by the difference. Any instrument sounds good in the hands of someone who knows how to play it. I'm a violin person so maybe my opinion doesn't mean much.
I agree with I Love Trees. I do think there is a richer tone on the older cello, but its only slightly noticeable because this player plays very well and he is producing the tone just as much as the instruments.
You are trying to describe chinese cello worst than it is, I own one and it is still made of bookmatched flamed maple in the back, sides and the top is solid spruce, I own many instruments I wanted to have a cello but I cant afford a costly one.. I am also an instrumenty builder, so I tcheck every part by using a strong light source so I could see through the wood from every angle and the consistency of it by translucidity, the only part I did not like was the fingering board, it was a white wood painted black I removed it and changed it for a ebony one. The difference I have seen between chinese violins or cellos and vintage ones is mostly the ageing process, the chinese are quick dried using an oven. they may sound a bit harsh at first try but I found out that the more you play them, they open up and the sound gets better and better, so if in fact you used the chinese cello daily for a while, the sound would have got even much closer to the old one, and the difference is not that big already... I changed my bridge for a belgian style too, sounds way louder and less dark than the usual french bridge... so I can tell that your demonstration is not conclusive, as the other factors like the setup, hours of playing and what bridge have a big influence on the sound too, and also the fact that if you feel better playing the old one this changes the ring of it too! You play very good, and you deserve a fine instrument, but you dont have to diss the chinese copy, because many people can just afford these and I think they can become really good with them, better than if they would keep dreaming about a vintage stradivarius! I played violin for 25 years and now the cello for 4 years, so I am very happy about my first one, it may be just a chinese bought 300$ on Ebay, but it is mine and now people are beggining to hire me to play it in studio and onstage! Hope someday I can get a better one, but I know I will keep the first one, it looks great too because it is all white, and I dont worry taking it outside when the warm season begins... If I had a 10 000$ cello I am not sure I would feel comfortable taking it outside of the house! I would say you show the difference between a good, and an excellent cello, there is no bad one!
Means two piece cut out in the same piece of wood, then opened and facing each other like mirror, like pages off a book, hence the "bookmatched" expression.
I can relate when you said "It's my cello". I also own a chinese made 250$ cello. I have been playing on it and disassembling it and putting it back together all by myself. My teacher is impressed with how good it sounds and I've grown to like it, and im no longer thinking of it as a cheap copy of something better. It is my cello and i've put my time, effort and wear in to it.
Chinesse instruments are superb when you go up to 3000dollars, I got one and when I brought it to my luthier and asked what price he thinks it was he said within 10000-15000 range. He was quite shocked when I told him it was 3k. Well I chose it from about 50 or more instruments of same pricerange, the chinesse ones were better than the german or european in general but this particular one was very exceptional among those( vibrant deep growling yet not agressive sound, right proportions, just felt so right). It has perfect measurements, has european spruce on top and the varnish and details are awesome. They even make it look very old somehow even though it's just just over 3 years old. If you try a lot you have better chance of getting the best for the price, I would reccomend 20 cellos atleast. Chinesse instruments are great unless you buy 250d one. It's a crap, I got one at home, laminated and it sucks so hard, the measurements are so far off, doesn't resonate, the fingerboard is badly curved , the cello overall gets worse with time(unlike proper cello which gets better). I had to invest a lot of money to make it acceptable - bridge, tailpiece, few sets of strings luthier works etc(probably twice the price of the actual cello)... If I could go back in time I would go work more for a month and buy something wooden at around 1k
Thanks for the demonstration! (For other viewers, below are the time stamps of his demonstrations. I have intentionally labeled the cellos simply as C1 and C2 without identifying which one is the "bad" one and which is the "good" one. It might be even fun to listen to his demonstrations first, then watch the complete video and compare your impressions with his. Lower register scale: Cello 1 (C1) 3:46 Cello 2 (C2) 4:07 Full scale: C1: 7:59 C2: 7:18 Higher register example C1: 5:02 C2: 5:44
Whatever one can afford is - GOOD. On sax, a pro said 90% your sound comes from YOU. Great players can make nice music on cheap instruments for THE PEOPLE listening to music, and not the instrument, notes, type of wood, strings, etc. China makes cheap instruments for its billion, which is good. Quality stuff just costs too much, we love quality SOUND like a great cello, a GIbson J45, a Steinway, etc, but billions cannot afford.
He has convinced me to buy a less expensive cello. The sound is much better than I expected on the cheap one. Of course the more expensive one is bigger in sound and easier to play, but this shows, the instrument is nothing but a piece of wood until played by a dedicated, talented musician.
You get what you pay for, but I mean if someone is just starting to pick it up as an absolute beginner, they aren't going to invest in a handmade antique cello. I feel like for $100, it's not that bad of a deal, and you would only invest in a more expensive one if you start to get serious.
I think you have proven it really doesn't matter the quality of cello if you're a skilled player. The price and age of the cello only matters to a cellist. We don't play cello for cellist where I come from. We play for the people, and the people can't tell the difference so its a moot point. Of course if trained, one sounds way better but the only issue omen can hear is the different tuning.
I think it is easy to pick out which one is the better cello. The question is whether it is worth it to buy a cheap cello from ebay or amazing to learn to play on first, or if it is better to buy something a bit more expensive from the start. Is it harder to learn on a cheap cello?
It actually is harder to play on a cheaper cello. There are many reason but some which include poor setup (bad placement of bridge, sound post, tailpiece, etc), poor materials (as he mentions), poor carving (fingerboard not properly shaped), and the action. Because cheaper cellos are hastily made, that affects the sound, as heard here. Even to me who has been playing for 17+ years can see that he is almost trying harder on the cheap cello to try to achieve the same dynamic and intensity. You just have to work much harder to get that sound that makes the cello come alive. Could you learn on a cheap cello? Yes you can, just will take more work. Maybe that isn't a bad thing though...
According to me you should hire a better cello in the beginning, because chances are, especially if it's a kid learning, that they won't be playing for that long and then you can just leave it back if you don't need it. If you can't hire though, buy a cheap one, don't invest in something there's a big chance you won't get money out of, unless you're incredibly sure of it. But since part of learning to play an instrument is to make it sound good, and the cheap ones don't sound good at all you should really hire.
FIrst for many it might sound nearly the same. Thats because of the Microphone itself for example. But you can clearly hear a much more characteristic in the expensive one. That being said: the cheap one is a good starter one for learning the basics, but as your skill advance you should consider buying a used one. The character of the sound they produce is so much better in person. As chellist i had a medium quality one for beginning which i rent for a year, then bought myself a high quality one as i play on concerts. Short version: Go with a cheap chello first. But when you want to go more and more with emotions putting into your art the more you will find out that it has a cap where u cant put any emotions into it anymore. Thats where the highquality Cello becomes important.
Still love my 13 year old chinese made cello. My first love that has only seen upgrades in the strings and bow department and sound incredible. I have had people ask who is the maker and when I say its just a run of the mill chinese cello they are mind blown. But then again, different from the cello in this video, my dearest is made out of a real piece of wood.
I have a chinese cello and I love it too! - And I doubt what is said that this cello would be made of wood chips conglomerate, this would not be able to hold string tension, 4 cello strings tuned properly have a very strong pull, maybe around 200 pounds, wood chips glued together would explode!
He didn't found the appropiate word for the material. Is not conglomerate, is triplay, and they're made of cheaper woods. So they stand the tension and so on, but not vibrate quite as well as the real wood, specially those made with the finest wood selection.
The two instruments are tuned differently. A cello itself sounds different if it is not well tuned. Why doesn't it bother you? So this test is not worth much.
I think there are three main things that affect the quality of the cello; 1. The bows quality 2. The size of the cello, (a greater sized cello will produce a nicer sound) 3. The quality of the cello. read John Campbell's comment down below for a good explanation PS: and the bridge but that in my opinion is a must
Dear Fan Wu, thank you for this informative video. I have found a german cello made from maple wood and spruce with a nice sound and lots of harmonics coming to life when I'm not off tune. It was 200 euro's because it hase some amateuristic repairs. I have been playing cello for three weeks now, I have been playing the violin at intermediate amateur level.
It's not really fair to compare a cheap $200 beginner's cello with one that typically cost more than a new Mercedes. Are there and 'good' ones under $5000?
i have no doubt hand made can not be beaten manufractured... but please give it a chance at least. If you don't even tune it the same way :') the manufractured one did not have a big enough box to let resonate its strings
Hi Fan, Is a cheap cello worth buying for a beginner student? Or is leasing a better quality instrument worth the investment? I'd appreciate your honest opinion. Thank you.
I would say if they are unsure of whether or not they would continue in the future, then perhaps not buy the expensive one. However if you are invested into learning, then you may as well get a decent instrument! In the end it all depends on how much you are willing to spend on it!
Thank you for the info, Alex. As an adult beginner, perhaps I should try to find a music shop where I can rent a cello while I decide whether or not it's for me. Buying a cheap instrument that sounds bad is a waste of money, as is investing in a decent instrument but then losing interest in it. If I can stick with it, then it will make sense to get a quality cello at some point in the future. I guess I just needed to hear an informed opinion. :)
No worries! I've been playing for 15 years, but by no means would I call myself an expert, but any other questions are welcome! Yeah, a quality cello makes quite a bit of difference to how much time I want to spend on the instrument.
I played piano years and years ago - I could play well but I didn't exactly find it enjoyable. What would you say are the "easiest" or "least frustrating" instruments for an adult beginner to learn to play? I love the sound of the cello, but is it difficult to learn? (especially the reading) Thanks so much!
I play guitar and cello, and a bit of bass as well. I find that it will honestly depend on the person more than anything else. Guitar might be somewhere you might want to look, the frets make it much easier to hit the ground running and get a great sound and in tune a lot easier. It also tends to be a bit cheaper, good quality mass produced guitars are commonplace these days. But that's just my experience, go with your heart and that's where you'll find the most enjoyment out of it :) what instruments do you like the sound of the most?
You can learn to produce a really beautiful tone on a cheap cello. Then someday, if you are fortunate enough to get a good cello, you are in heaven, because it is so much easier to play! But you have to have a good bow. A good bow might cost you more than your cheap cello.
The synwyn cello is made up of simple plywood (as are all cheap instruments), and not MDF as you have suggested. Your cello also probably took 2-4 weeks to make. Makers in the 1700's typically make 1 a month to pay the bills. Taking 6 months is ridiculous. More accurately, it takes about 150-200 hrs to make a cello. Lastly, it is debatable how old wood is when they made it. Researched shows that some strads used very young wood or only dried for 5 years. And being in a high humidity place like venice does not dry wood very well either.
So I have watched this a few times. 1)you are flat, that makes any instrument old, great, new bad sound terrible. 2)A very good player can make any cello (proviso, structural defects aside) sound decent, its takes a LOT of effort, but it can be done.3)EVERY player has their own cello that works for them. A bad player, one who thinks cello is a cool idea but spends zero effort on fundamentals, will not have a clue.What are fundamentals? Sound, sound clarity, sound projection. That's about 5 years of looking at a bow and wondering, what have I done wrong. Being in tune. Yeah, that's almost genetic, If you are tone deaf, any instrument you play is going to sound horrible. A "cheap" cello has a terrible bridge build (too low or too high) and of course is built to have no ability to sustain a sound at all what so ever. As your skills grow, you will know wow, this instrument is made to project sound and requires half of my usual effort. Its a wonderful thing
Some of the comments here are so dumb! Yes! In the hands of a pro cellist you get the most out of any cello but what pro cellist is going to waste his or her time grappling with a poorly manufactured cello that 100% of the time isnt going to be easy. Furthermore the sound on the higher notes are not going to be defined.
I am sorry man, but tuning has nothing to do with sound quality. You changed the tuning and shape of your bow-hand playing between one instrument and another. I was expecting to hear some good review using a good pair of stereo mics. In other way, the quality of recording isn't real and sounds bad in my studio monitors. And by the way, Chinese instruments aren't so bad. I have played soloist using one. Check my videos!
I noticed that too. Lovingly picked up his cello and used a much more different bow-hand as well as played much lyrically beautiful music on that cello and badly done, slow scales on the inexpensive (I hate the word cheap) instrument
Europeans make great European instruments. If I buy an Asian built instrument, it'll be a Shakuhachi or Liu Quin or something. I'll go Czech, Italian, Austrian or French for an authentic European tone. There has to be some value on history here somewhere
Ok, so basically this guy compared a cheap cello made in China with an expensive cello to say Chinese made cello is much worse. That’s ridiculous. If I compared a cheap cello which made in Germany with an antique cello which made in China. Does that mean made in China is better than made in Germany ? Bullshit
Cello is such a cheaty instrument. Even the bad (budget) ones sound really good compared to equally bad (budget) or even quality violin. The larger the body and lower the frequencies, the easier it is to get good sound. Hell, even a 50.000$ 17th century Cremonese violin (or even many Stradivaris) can sound thin and displeasing to the ear (and have large monetary value based only on it's age and heritage), but a 100$ cello will never sound thin, as it's larger body shape automatically generate the required frequencies. It always has a modicum of quality to the sound (a guarantee not present in violins), even though it can get much better in expensive instruments, as we see in this demonstration.
You obviously haven't played many cellos then, I have played some cheap and nasty instruments that have had little depth to the sound, often just sounding tinny or whiny. Trust me when I say you can DEFINITELY tell the difference between a cheap instrument and an expensive one when you actually play them, often the distinction is that a half decent player can make an expensive instrument sound good, but only if you're professional standard can you make a bad or mediocre instrument sound good.
The Chinese made cello you are showing is defective and unplayable anyway, if it is true that the strings cannot be tuned to standard concert pitch, which is usually A440. Unless you only play early music works on it with the intention of some measure of authenticity . Standard concert pitch was considerably lower in 14th- 17th centuries .
i think its annoying when people do this, elitism is dumb, only an idiot spends thousands of dollars on a cello when they are beginning, and no skilled person who has been playing cello for 5 years or more would buy a Chinese made cello. the cheap violins and cellos are aimed at people beginning. these instruments work totally fine for a new player. obviously you buy better ones as you learn and progress and decide if you like the thing and the work involved to be any good with it, they act like every person who buys a violin or cello will be working in an orchestra, this is not even remotely the case. the vast majority of people who buy these things buy it for a hobby or just love of the music, not a job. obviously you get what you pay for most of the time, but that is perfectly fine in my opinion
agree 100%. Well said and you are absolutely correct. The majority of people buying these instruments ARE beginners and either cannot afford spend $1000 +( and that is considered cheap!) for a cello/violin/viola, etc. They are testing the waters and may just want to see if this is their thing. Likewise parents who are tired of renting (sometimes the SAME type of Chinese made instrument!) and want their child to own their own instrument. If you get one that can get them through 2 or 3 years then you've saved yourself a lot of money in rental fees. After getting some lessons under their belt parents then can invest in a more expensive instrument. The snobbery (AND FEAR) from Brick and Mortar stores and Luthiers is real! They go out of their way to post terror stories everywhere they can. IMO if they would consider having a couple of these instruments in their shops for people they could get, keep, and maintain those customers and possibly move them into higher end instruments. I think it's incredibly stupid, given this online age, to not even consider that option. There is money to be had if they lower their noses.
First of all, you should use professional equipment for recording if you want to demonstrate the real quality of those instruments. Secondly you are not demonstrating in a neutral way. You play far much more out of tune on the "cheap cello" and even on your own instrument, forgive me for saying, some practicing on tuning may not harm you. Also in your demonstration you do not provide much space for the listener to decide for him/herself which of the two would actualy sound better. I ask myself, what is your point in making this video? I myself am a professional cello player. I play a french cello built by Thiery a Paris dating 1820. Used to play at the Flemish Opera Orchestra in Ghent and Antwerp (Belgium)
Ok this video is completely wrong.. I am a poor person so I only can afford a cheap cello. You also are offending the student who thinks that they can do this and they can be a good cellist. You are saying that there instrument is crap. So I’m sorry that we can’t afford your fancy cello but ur going to have to deal with it
If you watched the video you'd have heard him state that if he tuned the A up to 442Hz (or 221 at that octave) the string would have snapped because of the poor craftsmanship of the cheaper instrument, so he adjusted the rest of the strings to match the lower tuning of that A. Did you actually listen to that bit or did you click the video, not bother watching it in it's entirety, and make your judgement on what you THOUGHT was going to be in it?
I have a very cheap chinesse cello. To make things worse the original varnish is black, a thick black paint. So it's volume is very low. The good thing about that cello is it's been autographed by Apocallyptica, so looks awesome and everybody envies my cello. The bad thing is that is very hard to play, i'm always struggling with it. when i play in a sightly better cello, everything seems so easy and sounds a lot better. I love my cello, but i would progress faster and sound better in a better made one. I bet a couple of thosands dollar would be worthy. And i'm not a professional cellist, not pretending to be one. But i'm serious about cello.
This is so wrong and I wish people would stop making this mistake (not personally directed, just in general). A poor quality string instrument will still sound horrible regardless of how accurately a piece of music is played. It's just too hard to tell over digital recording--it really requires you to be in the same room. A crappy cello vs a quality cello will blow you away in person, no matter who or what is being played. A bad cello will always sound like a bad cello.
my suggestions for poor people, once you've played a few years, get expensive strings, starting with high quality cello/strings, makes you work less to get a rich tone
I started out with cheap hoffman cello. I only have to get by with expensive strings, bridge, rosin, and bow. I have to save uo a lot of money for that sans the one my parents gave me, but it is still workable for several years until I can save up for more higher quality cello. Or take it to luthier if the problem lays in the wood. It can be expensive, but will worth about 5-7 years until you can save up for more better cello.
The cheap cello should have been tuned!!! It being out of tune could be very misleading to some people who don’t have more extensive knowledge because of the brains natural negative response towards dissonance!
Why don't you suggest to your student to get lower gauge heilocore strings? Then it won't have so much tension to "snap" the string and thus allowing him or her to actually learn the instrument properly to get as good as you?
Exactly. I was stunned by this and only this. It's the intonation on that cheap one that's terrible; not a huge difference in tone. Though I understand how having to exert more effort to get the same amount of sound would be annoying.
i think the bad cello still sounds pretty good. No wonder my teacher keep saying my student cello is fine, which I think I need a better cello. My teacher is a professional player at Vancouver Symphony Orchestra with a Ph.D.
I have a cheap Chinese brand cello and I must say, I am struggling. I am a beginner cellist and my tone quality sucks. One day, however, my teacher happened upon an antique German cello. She told me to try it out. It felt like I was gliding. It sounded beautiful and rich instead of the tinny scratching sounds I got on my cello. I think a lot of the sound quality is because of the overtones and that results from the wood reverb and the strings. Anyhow, enough sciencey stuff hahaha. I love my cello and I'm sure I can make it soud unique. It won't be a classic sound but it will definetly become a good sound. Great video by the way. You've gotten a new sub!
You know, a good cello that fits his requirements can still be a milled cello. Even Chinese. I'd be happy to agree with Fan Wu on nearly anything based on this video. I AM a professional cellist with 40 years experience performing and 25 years teaching experience. For all of you that think you have to spend 10,000+ you're wrong.
Would you recommend a $7k cello from Luis and Clark? I'm thinking about it since I travel a lot and would love to bring my cello without worry of severe weather damage.
Yours has a bit more vibration/rumble over tones, bit more life, but with some eq in software the cheap one could be made to sound pretty damn good with some tweaks. For live obviously that wouldnt work, but I think overall more people would be more capable of buying a cheap one compared to one that is as expensive as a car. The sound just isnt different enough to justify that kind of money, seems more like status and class that would push for the higher pricing as a priority.
Dont like the title. it may insult millions who can only afford a BAD cello. Teacher to poor student - "you got a bad lousy cheap cello". Better is to advise how to improve it? better strings?
I play on a borrowed cello from the earlier 20th century, which was crafted from cheap wood, but by a skilled master (probably for fun or something). It sounds truly great and lovely. I think it depends a lot on the right proportions and on the love and skill that goes into the building process.
Mainly this video proves not the big differences in quality but that even the shabbiest piece of wood sounds good in the hands of a skilled player
absolutely!)) it doesn't matter what kind of cello you have if you play out of tune))))
Theo Rosenfeld Actually, the quality of the instrument matters a great deal. You could have Yo-Yo Ma playing a $100 cello and it would still sound like crap.
TheEonGamer I think on the fundamental emotional level a $100 cello in the hands of Yo-Yo Ma would be pretty inspirational. Unless of course you are a technical elitist.
No, the tone of the modern one is very thin.
Not with my first student cello. It was horrible, the fingerboard was kind of curved inwards so if you look at one side of it you will notice that curvation. It looks nearly like a kayak lol. And functionally, it doesn't serve the convenience for the players, having the fingerboard curved away from the strings which are above it. This condition would want your fingers to tap extra hard just to put your left hand fingers to make a decent sound of the cello, let alone to play with vibrato (extra hard😂). So back in the time, I always borrowed my teacher's instrument for moments like recitals, exams etc.
Even the cheaply made cello sounds beautiful with the way you play. If I'm as good as you yet poor as I am now, wouldn't mind buying a cheap one if I can't afford the more expensive one.
There's a huge difference in how accurately someone plays a piece of music versus how the cello actually sounds. A bad cello will always be a bad cello regardless of who is playing it. Sadly, the more expensive cellos are still far superior. Cost hasn't really come down at all over the years for a string instrument that actually sounds good. Edit: actually commented before I watched--just watched and yea, that cheap cello sounds god awful. The piece is played well, the cello sounds horrendous.
wood does not need to sit for 30 years before use. With the appropriate sized cut it takes at most 3 years for spruce and about 5 or 6 years for maple. It is also not one piece of wood. The front plate was probably made from one or two pieces of spruce, the back plate from one or two pieces of maple and the sides made from multiple pieces of maple. Many Seraphin back plates are two pieces of wood. There are currently around 300 Seraphins still in circulation. Its nice to think he spent a year working on it but based on approximations on how many of his instruments were in circulation during the time he was alive, he may have cranked that sucker out in less than a week. And a final note, the biggest issue with sound quality with "cheap" cellos has nothing to do with the body of the cello or the wood used. The problem with cheap cellos is almost always the bridge placement, tailpiece quality, and most importantly, string and bow quality. A cheap cello can be retrofitted with better parts and easily match the quality of a master luthier. Unfortunately, many people have trouble getting over the fact that its still a "cheap" cello.
You sound like an angry person. Any novice knows what you have said. It's common knowledge.
And no. A cheap cello does not turn into a good or great cello merely by its set up. And yes, luthiers wait years before they work on work on wood. Whether its logs floating down the river to Venice or a few decades in a cabin in northern Wisconsin.
Apologies if I sounded angry? I assure you I was coolheaded when I wrote that. I'm not just shooting from the hip either. I'm a luthier(20+yrs), so when I see videos like this I do everything I can to stop the spread of misinformation. And no, most luthiers do not wait decades. The majority wait the aforementioned period of time. Sure, there are rare exceptions depending on the wood cut but typically its only 5 or 6 years for maple and 3 years for spruce.
And yes, a cheap cello can be retrofitted with different parts to produce a high quality sound. It's easier just to buy a good cello set up to begin with but that doesn't change the fact that a new tailpiece, strings, and proper bridge placement--can go a long way. Also, no experienced luthier would use a random log floating in a river. Yes, a chemical analysis of Stradivari violins showed they had been soaked in water. That does not mean they were found in a river. A waterlogged hunk of wood from a river would not have any structural stability. Many luthiers suspect Stradivari soaked them briefly after cutting the wood to size, before carving the plates. BIG difference. A handful of biochemists have spread an incredible amount of misinformation about water soaked wood. They've even attempted to make instruments from logs at the bottom of Lake Superior. This practice has already been debunked.
Again, I am not angry. My intent is to act as a benevolent voice of reason, speaking from experience in the industry. Cheers
I was having a moment, and I wish I had been more polite.
Your comments are much appreciated. I have a feeling I would have some questions for you. Thank you for sharing your experience!!
only a professional like him can make a student cello sound that great. But, like he said, it is harder to get a higher volume. On a good cello you don't have to worry to make it sound "good"
the best comparison I can make with the chinese cello is that it sounds "constipated"
Are you sure the "cheap" cello isn't out of tune? xD
I measured the sound of cheap Chinese brand cello and it IS out of tune. Not a fair comparison.
Were you guys watching? He said he couldn't tune it any higher, because the measuring won't allow it. He said the string would snap if he tried to. You guys need to *pay attention* before you go around wrongly criticizing people.
Nyan Lin honestly ive only played for 3 years but they both sound a little out of tune
No, it wasn't.
He is being biased
I see he has no respect for the , cheap MDF Chinese, student cello .that's as it should be.
nothing can beat' a hand built luthier crafted instrument. but you have to start somewhere and not every one can afford such fine instruments . he is fortunate to have found one
the very finest are priceless,
old bladder Horn Do I at least have a better chance at having made a good choice by making sure it was actual Spruce and Maple and not 'Basswood' like most cheaper ones I could find? Thanks!
They sound pretty darn close to me, if one costs $100 and the other $3,000! He is also, not playing with the same feeling on the student one. Unfair test at best.
Most of the finest instruments have prices on them, as some elite players play on strads and Guarneris. Your argument is wrong
They are also tuned differently, can't you hear it? thing is usually the cheap cellos also need some adjustments like shaving the bridge more and these things do affect tone. Also the cheap one has cheap strings
The world of classical music requires money. That's how it is and that is how it will always be. You can't really change that.
well difference is very little for ordinary people like me. this just convinced me chinese are not too bad.
Ogrgels Lair no.. these cheap cellos are absolutely horrible to play on compared to really nice ones
I know I am bumping a very old comment. However, the problem here isn't highlighted all that well because the musician is very skilled. In the hands of a student or mediocre cellist, the shortcomings of a bad instrument get amplified, more than the virtues of a good instrument become compromised. A student cello that costs less than $1000 USD is likely a rip off. Furthermore, he highlighted something that is totally inexcusable for an instrument, and that is the inability of it to be tuned to concert pitch. For a beginning student, ensembles are a key part of development. If the student cannot properly tune their strings to match their group, it not only compromises them but the entire ensemble. This would never be tolerated. Parents out there looking to find the cheap way out, you're better off renting if you don't want to fork out the cash for ever increasingly sophisticated instruments. A good starter, as I said is around $1000.00. After around 5-6 years of dedicated practice and improvement, the $5000 price tag will be necessary. After one becomes accomplished, master crafted and antique instruments are a must. Hopefully by then, your kid is earning their own money and can do it themselves.
If you're an adult who just wants to mess around on a cello a bit, go ahead and buy one of those cheap Chinese cello outfits and have fun. Just don't do it to budding young musicians.
I have a pretty bad cello, and I know that I'm some what decent, but the cello is holding me back a lot, cello matters a lot
I did the same thing June. I bought a 1000 or so dollar cello at first an got a 3/4 size. I found out as I went along with my lessons an started getting more serious about playing the cello I needed a 4/4's cello. Make sure when you get your first cello that it is the right size because that will have a lot of impact on how you play an progress in your learning. So, now I have a 4/4s size cello the right size an it cost me around $2400.00. Also, don't go by the way the cello looks! Go by the way the cello sounds. If you dont play well at first have your cello teacher go along with you an play the cello for you an you can see the different tones that the cellos have. Love your video an keep them coming!!!
I actually started playing cello in the 6th grade, my cello was worth well over 1,000USD, and it was hand crafted, I remembered my teacher was admiring my instrument, while all the students played the their factory cellos that got donated to the school. It landed me first chair, and an Audition for chamber, which at that time was a huge deal for my school because I was in grade 6, and I was good enough to play in a symphony, Later that same year, I had to give up this angelic instrument because it was either my cello or my house. I had to play the manufacture cello, still had my first chair and audition, but couldn't audition without my instrument, that I had a bond with. all cellos sound differently, but if it is cheaply made, and you work hard to improve yourself, the cello with be beautiful sounding no matter what the price is.
very true! my son has a factory made knilling cello. he made all State as well as first chair chamber orchestra on his factory made cello. yes we are going to upgrade but in my opinion, it's the Musician who makes the instrument sound
I can tell a huge difference, the old cello is much more crisp and louder
Did you use a Chineese microphone on the recording ?
DisciplesOfLove DOL 😂🤣😃😃😅
Fuck you
You can buy a cheap cello but buy really good strings and bow makes all the difference. But great playing though
Now really? Come on. Very disappointing comparison your attitude with the cheap cello shows that you have an attitude with it. you played it like a beginner would play it yet you choose to play the better cello more professionally. On the cheaper cello you used no vibrato. But you did use it on the more expensive one. Two completely compare something you need to have a an exact comparison and style of playing to be able to compare sounds.
cheap instruments are extremely difficult to play, i feel like you guys aren't considering this.
Not necessarily true. You can find a lot of videos on YT where people are reviewing inexpensive instruments and they are playing them beautifully and in tune. The Online Violin and Piano tutor is one. Fiddlershop is another.
DJ its hard to play an instrument with soul when the instrument has no soul.
@Brendan Mather yes it does but if u give it soul doesn’t mean that it will come out great
Wtf are u talking about, he literally uses vibrato on both, cheap instruments are very difficult to play just because of the amount of effort u have to put in them to sound even half way decent
The only Difference I've heard is, that the old cello is more clear.
Got to be honest with you. I can tell a difference but it's not significant. I'm not blown away by the difference. Any instrument sounds good in the hands of someone who knows how to play it. I'm a violin person so maybe my opinion doesn't mean much.
AstronomyGuru84 no that is actually true
I agree with I Love Trees. I do think there is a richer tone on the older cello, but its only slightly noticeable because this player plays very well and he is producing the tone just as much as the instruments.
AstronomyGuru84 dude why tf is the flag upsidedown
It's not that true I play cello and it's about the sound and technique the sound of the cello help the player play it for a better sound
Of course your opinion doesnt matter if you're a violinist
You are trying to describe chinese cello worst than it is, I own one and it is still made of bookmatched flamed maple in the back, sides and the top is solid spruce, I own many instruments I wanted to have a cello but I cant afford a costly one.. I am also an instrumenty builder, so I tcheck every part by using a strong light source so I could see through the wood from every angle and the consistency of it by translucidity, the only part I did not like was the fingering board, it was a white wood painted black I removed it and changed it for a ebony one.
The difference I have seen between chinese violins or cellos and vintage ones is mostly the ageing process, the chinese are quick dried using an oven. they may sound a bit harsh at first try but I found out that the more you play them, they open up and the sound gets better and better, so if in fact you used the chinese cello daily for a while, the sound would have got even much closer to the old one, and the difference is not that big already... I changed my bridge for a belgian style too, sounds way louder and less dark than the usual french bridge... so I can tell that your demonstration is not conclusive, as the other factors like the setup, hours of playing and what bridge have a big influence on the sound too, and also the fact that if you feel better playing the old one this changes the ring of it too!
You play very good, and you deserve a fine instrument, but you dont have to diss the chinese copy, because many people can just afford these and I think they can become really good with them, better than if they would keep dreaming about a vintage stradivarius! I played violin for 25 years and now the cello for 4 years, so I am very happy about my first one, it may be just a chinese bought 300$ on Ebay, but it is mine and now people are beggining to hire me to play it in studio and onstage! Hope someday I can get a better one, but I know I will keep the first one, it looks great too because it is all white, and I dont worry taking it outside when the warm season begins... If I had a 10 000$ cello I am not sure I would feel comfortable taking it outside of the house!
I would say you show the difference between a good, and an excellent cello, there is no bad one!
Very useful comment. What is "bookmatched flamed maple" off course i understand the flamed maple but not familiar with the bookmatched term.
Means two piece cut out in the same piece of wood, then opened and facing each other like mirror, like pages off a book, hence the "bookmatched" expression.
Oh i see. Thank you for the explanation.
I can relate when you said "It's my cello". I also own a chinese made 250$ cello. I have been playing on it and disassembling it and putting it back together all by myself. My teacher is impressed with how good it sounds and I've grown to like it, and im no longer thinking of it as a cheap copy of something better. It is my cello and i've put my time, effort and wear in to it.
Chinesse instruments are superb when you go up to 3000dollars, I got one and when I brought it to my luthier and asked what price he thinks it was he said within 10000-15000 range. He was quite shocked when I told him it was 3k. Well I chose it from about 50 or more instruments of same pricerange, the chinesse ones were better than the german or european in general but this particular one was very exceptional among those( vibrant deep growling yet not agressive sound, right proportions, just felt so right). It has perfect measurements, has european spruce on top and the varnish and details are awesome. They even make it look very old somehow even though it's just just over 3 years old.
If you try a lot you have better chance of getting the best for the price, I would reccomend 20 cellos atleast.
Chinesse instruments are great unless you buy 250d one. It's a crap, I got one at home, laminated and it sucks so hard, the measurements are so far off, doesn't resonate, the fingerboard is badly curved , the cello overall gets worse with time(unlike proper cello which gets better). I had to invest a lot of money to make it acceptable - bridge, tailpiece, few sets of strings luthier works etc(probably twice the price of the actual cello)...
If I could go back in time I would go work more for a month and buy something wooden at around 1k
It's like that everywhere you go; you pay peanuts you get lousy stuffs.
Thanks for the demonstration! (For other viewers, below are the time stamps of his demonstrations. I have intentionally labeled the cellos simply as C1 and C2 without identifying which one is the "bad" one and which is the "good" one. It might be even fun to listen to his demonstrations first, then watch the complete video and compare your impressions with his.
Lower register scale:
Cello 1 (C1) 3:46
Cello 2 (C2) 4:07
Full scale:
C1: 7:59
C2: 7:18
Higher register example
C1: 5:02
C2: 5:44
The "bad" one is out of tune, that makes it easy to discern which is which.
Whatever one can afford is - GOOD. On sax, a pro said 90% your sound comes from YOU. Great players can make nice music on cheap instruments for THE PEOPLE listening to music, and not the instrument, notes, type of wood, strings, etc. China makes cheap instruments for its billion, which is good. Quality stuff just costs too much, we love quality SOUND like a great cello, a GIbson J45, a Steinway, etc, but billions cannot afford.
He has convinced me to buy a less expensive cello. The sound is much better than I expected on the cheap one. Of course the more expensive one is bigger in sound and easier to play, but this shows, the instrument is nothing but a piece of wood until played by a dedicated, talented musician.
You get what you pay for, but I mean if someone is just starting to pick it up as an absolute beginner, they aren't going to invest in a handmade antique cello. I feel like for $100, it's not that bad of a deal, and you would only invest in a more expensive one if you start to get serious.
You're completely right. If you're a professional, you shouldn't even think about these cheap cello's. but for beginners this is really good.
I think you have proven it really doesn't matter the quality of cello if you're a skilled player. The price and age of the cello only matters to a cellist. We don't play cello for cellist where I come from. We play for the people, and the people can't tell the difference so its a moot point. Of course if trained, one sounds way better but the only issue omen can hear is the different tuning.
I think it is easy to pick out which one is the better cello. The question is whether it is worth it to buy a cheap cello from ebay or amazing to learn to play on first, or if it is better to buy something a bit more expensive from the start. Is it harder to learn on a cheap cello?
It actually is harder to play on a cheaper cello. There are many reason but some which include poor setup (bad placement of bridge, sound post, tailpiece, etc), poor materials (as he mentions), poor carving (fingerboard not properly shaped), and the action. Because cheaper cellos are hastily made, that affects the sound, as heard here. Even to me who has been playing for 17+ years can see that he is almost trying harder on the cheap cello to try to achieve the same dynamic and intensity. You just have to work much harder to get that sound that makes the cello come alive. Could you learn on a cheap cello? Yes you can, just will take more work. Maybe that isn't a bad thing though...
According to me you should hire a better cello in the beginning, because chances are, especially if it's a kid learning, that they won't be playing for that long and then you can just leave it back if you don't need it.
If you can't hire though, buy a cheap one, don't invest in something there's a big chance you won't get money out of, unless you're incredibly sure of it. But since part of learning to play an instrument is to make it sound good, and the cheap ones don't sound good at all you should really hire.
You don’t need a good cello when you’re learning the instrument you can buy a better one once you’re actually performing
I'm actually leaning towards the sound of the cheaper
6:26 how do I tune it then? If it snaps when you tune it will it just always be out of tune?
I always feel like Italian cellos have nicer lower registers than higher registers (not including Strads, he borrowed from the French models)
FIrst for many it might sound nearly the same. Thats because of the Microphone itself for example. But you can clearly hear a much more characteristic in the expensive one. That being said: the cheap one is a good starter one for learning the basics, but as your skill advance you should consider buying a used one. The character of the sound they produce is so much better in person. As chellist i had a medium quality one for beginning which i rent for a year, then bought myself a high quality one as i play on concerts.
Short version: Go with a cheap chello first. But when you want to go more and more with emotions putting into your art the more you will find out that it has a cap where u cant put any emotions into it anymore. Thats where the highquality Cello becomes important.
Still love my 13 year old chinese made cello. My first love that has only seen upgrades in the strings and bow department and sound incredible. I have had people ask who is the maker and when I say its just a run of the mill chinese cello they are mind blown. But then again, different from the cello in this video, my dearest is made out of a real piece of wood.
I have a chinese cello and I love it too! - And I doubt what is said that this cello would be made of wood chips conglomerate, this would not be able to hold string tension, 4 cello strings tuned properly have a very strong pull, maybe around 200 pounds, wood chips glued together would explode!
He didn't found the appropiate word for the material. Is not conglomerate, is triplay, and they're made of cheaper woods. So they stand the tension and so on, but not vibrate quite as well as the real wood, specially those made with the finest wood selection.
You have T-shirt with Praha! It's the capital of my country! I am from the Czech Republic 😄
The two instruments are tuned differently. A cello itself sounds different if it is not well tuned. Why doesn't it bother you? So this test is not worth much.
Very nice! I just bought a "cheap" cello (total beginner). What is the purpose of the cloth between the tail piece and the body of the cello?
I think there are three main things that affect the quality of the cello;
1. The bows quality
2. The size of the cello, (a greater sized cello will produce a nicer sound)
3. The quality of the cello. read John Campbell's comment down below for a good explanation
PS: and the bridge but that in my opinion is a must
there is a massive difference, not sure what you guys are talking about
Dear Fan Wu, thank you for this informative video. I have found a german cello made from maple wood and spruce with a nice sound and lots of harmonics coming to life when I'm not off tune. It was 200 euro's because it hase some amateuristic repairs. I have been playing cello for three weeks now, I have been playing the violin at intermediate amateur level.
Which woods are the best to create a cello with for the best sound possible?
Cool t-shirt! Greetings from Praha, haha.
It's not really fair to compare a cheap $200 beginner's cello with one that typically cost more than a new Mercedes. Are there and 'good' ones under $5000?
LOL the chinese cello sounded like a bucket.
nice vid fan wu, thanks
His Cello = rich like butter!
Student Cello = mongoose in heat
Is it in Singapore?
i have no doubt hand made can not be beaten manufractured... but please give it a chance at least. If you don't even tune it the same way :') the manufractured one did not have a big enough box to let resonate its strings
Hi Fan, Is a cheap cello worth buying for a beginner student? Or is leasing a better quality instrument worth the investment? I'd appreciate your honest opinion. Thank you.
I would say if they are unsure of whether or not they would continue in the future, then perhaps not buy the expensive one. However if you are invested into learning, then you may as well get a decent instrument! In the end it all depends on how much you are willing to spend on it!
Thank you for the info, Alex. As an adult beginner, perhaps I should try to find a music shop where I can rent a cello while I decide whether or not it's for me. Buying a cheap instrument that sounds bad is a waste of money, as is investing in a decent instrument but then losing interest in it. If I can stick with it, then it will make sense to get a quality cello at some point in the future. I guess I just needed to hear an informed opinion. :)
No worries! I've been playing for 15 years, but by no means would I call myself an expert, but any other questions are welcome!
Yeah, a quality cello makes quite a bit of difference to how much time I want to spend on the instrument.
I played piano years and years ago - I could play well but I didn't exactly find it enjoyable. What would you say are the "easiest" or "least frustrating" instruments for an adult beginner to learn to play? I love the sound of the cello, but is it difficult to learn? (especially the reading) Thanks so much!
I play guitar and cello, and a bit of bass as well. I find that it will honestly depend on the person more than anything else.
Guitar might be somewhere you might want to look, the frets make it much easier to hit the ground running and get a great sound and in tune a lot easier. It also tends to be a bit cheaper, good quality mass produced guitars are commonplace these days.
But that's just my experience, go with your heart and that's where you'll find the most enjoyment out of it :) what instruments do you like the sound of the most?
perhaps the soundpost is too tight or in the wrong place on the new instrument.
Wich song does he plays ? 5:36 'devoshark first movement???'
Jens 4Dude Dvorak cello concerto first movement
You can learn to produce a really beautiful tone on a cheap cello. Then someday, if you are fortunate enough to get a good cello, you are in heaven, because it is so much easier to play! But you have to have a good bow. A good bow might cost you more than your cheap cello.
If you are good, you're good and will sound good. The cello, unlike violins (much smaller bodies with less resonance) it's a bigger deal.
The synwyn cello is made up of simple plywood (as are all cheap instruments), and not MDF as you have suggested. Your cello also probably took 2-4 weeks to make. Makers in the 1700's typically make 1 a month to pay the bills. Taking 6 months is ridiculous. More accurately, it takes about 150-200 hrs to make a cello. Lastly, it is debatable how old wood is when they made it. Researched shows that some strads used very young wood or only dried for 5 years. And being in a high humidity place like venice does not dry wood very well either.
maybe I'm just listening on a really s***** speakers but I heard little to no difference between the notes in those two instruments
Hi, i hear through headphones. the dif is VERY obvious even tho i think his mic isnt top end setup. go try again.
Did He say that the Cellos had the same strings? if not that would change the sound I think.
So I have watched this a few times. 1)you are flat, that makes any instrument old, great, new bad sound terrible. 2)A very good player can make any cello (proviso, structural defects aside) sound decent, its takes a LOT of effort, but it can be done.3)EVERY player has their own cello that works for them. A bad player, one who thinks cello is a cool idea but spends zero effort on fundamentals, will not have a clue.What are fundamentals? Sound, sound clarity, sound projection. That's about 5 years of looking at a bow and wondering, what have I done wrong. Being in tune. Yeah, that's almost genetic, If you are tone deaf, any instrument you play is going to sound horrible. A "cheap" cello has a terrible bridge build (too low or too high) and of course is built to have no ability to sustain a sound at all what so ever. As your skills grow, you will know wow, this instrument is made to project sound and requires half of my usual effort. Its a wonderful thing
Some of the comments here are so dumb! Yes! In the hands of a pro cellist you get the most out of any cello but what pro cellist is going to waste his or her time grappling with a poorly manufactured cello that 100% of the time isnt going to be easy. Furthermore the sound on the higher notes are not going to be defined.
What type of combination of strings are you using?
Looks like spirocore tungsten c and g and Evah pirazzi's on the A and D
I am sorry man, but tuning has nothing to do with sound quality. You changed the tuning and shape of your bow-hand playing between one instrument and another.
I was expecting to hear some good review using a good pair of stereo mics.
In other way, the quality of recording isn't real and sounds bad in my studio monitors.
And by the way, Chinese instruments aren't so bad. I have played soloist using one. Check my videos!
I noticed that too. Lovingly picked up his cello and used a much more different bow-hand as well as played much lyrically beautiful music on that cello and badly done, slow scales on the inexpensive (I hate the word cheap) instrument
I know so many people in my orchestra who have these cheaply made cellos and they have a much harder time playing and creating good tone
Europeans make great European instruments. If I buy an Asian built instrument, it'll be a Shakuhachi or Liu Quin or something. I'll go Czech, Italian, Austrian or French for an authentic European tone. There has to be some value on history here somewhere
To anyone saying it's out of tune... Watch the whole damn video... smh. I'll give you a timestamp though. 6:15
Ok, so basically this guy compared a cheap cello made in China with an expensive cello to say Chinese made cello is much worse. That’s ridiculous. If I compared a cheap cello which made in Germany with an antique cello which made in China. Does that mean made in China is better than made in Germany ? Bullshit
Hay you Fan wu...!!!!...Do you know the Originality of best cello...!!!!...JITENDRA KUMAR Z.PATEL...MUMBAI...INDIA...jzpatelut..
Cello is such a cheaty instrument. Even the bad (budget) ones sound really good compared to equally bad (budget) or even quality violin. The larger the body and lower the frequencies, the easier it is to get good sound. Hell, even a 50.000$ 17th century Cremonese violin (or even many Stradivaris) can sound thin and displeasing to the ear (and have large monetary value based only on it's age and heritage), but a 100$ cello will never sound thin, as it's larger body shape automatically generate the required frequencies. It always has a modicum of quality to the sound (a guarantee not present in violins), even though it can get much better in expensive instruments, as we see in this demonstration.
You obviously haven't played many cellos then, I have played some cheap and nasty instruments that have had little depth to the sound, often just sounding tinny or whiny. Trust me when I say you can DEFINITELY tell the difference between a cheap instrument and an expensive one when you actually play them, often the distinction is that a half decent player can make an expensive instrument sound good, but only if you're professional standard can you make a bad or mediocre instrument sound good.
Можно было настроить хотя бы их одинаково уже не просим чисто. Вообщем одна другой стоит.
2nd cello sounded flat
The Chinese made cello you are showing is defective and unplayable anyway, if it is true that the strings cannot be tuned to standard concert pitch, which is usually A440. Unless you only play early music works on it with the intention of some measure of authenticity . Standard concert pitch was considerably lower in 14th- 17th centuries .
i think its annoying when people do this, elitism is dumb, only an idiot spends thousands of dollars on a cello when they are beginning, and no skilled person who has been playing cello for 5 years or more would buy a Chinese made cello.
the cheap violins and cellos are aimed at people beginning. these instruments work totally fine for a new player.
obviously you buy better ones as you learn and progress and decide if you like the thing and the work involved to be any good with it, they act like every person who buys a violin or cello will be working in an orchestra, this is not even remotely the case. the vast majority of people who buy these things buy it for a hobby or just love of the music, not a job. obviously you get what you pay for most of the time, but that is perfectly fine in my opinion
agree 100%. Well said and you are absolutely correct. The majority of people buying these instruments ARE beginners and either cannot afford spend $1000 +( and that is considered cheap!) for a cello/violin/viola, etc. They are testing the waters and may just want to see if this is their thing. Likewise parents who are tired of renting (sometimes the SAME type of Chinese made instrument!) and want their child to own their own instrument. If you get one that can get them through 2 or 3 years then you've saved yourself a lot of money in rental fees. After getting some lessons under their belt parents then can invest in a more expensive instrument. The snobbery (AND FEAR) from Brick and Mortar stores and Luthiers is real! They go out of their way to post terror stories everywhere they can. IMO if they would consider having a couple of these instruments in their shops for people they could get, keep, and maintain those customers and possibly move them into higher end instruments. I think it's incredibly stupid, given this online age, to not even consider that option. There is money to be had if they lower their noses.
The Chinese cello has a more bottled up sound.
Make sure to tune the cello before playing because the cheap one was horrendously out of tun :)
First of all, you should use professional equipment for recording if you want to demonstrate the real quality of those instruments. Secondly you are not demonstrating in a neutral way. You play far much more out of tune on the "cheap cello" and even on your own instrument, forgive me for saying, some practicing on tuning may not harm you.
Also in your demonstration you do not provide much space for the listener to decide for him/herself which of the two would actualy sound better.
I ask myself, what is your point in making this video?
I myself am a professional cello player. I play a french cello built by Thiery a Paris dating 1820. Used to play at the Flemish Opera Orchestra in Ghent and Antwerp (Belgium)
The cheap one is better
how can you compare these two cellos when you don't even use the same strings? makes no sense at all, sorry!
He is comparing almost the two opposite ends of the spectrum here. It doesn’t make much sense does it?
bad people compare things like this and good people just practice
Ok this video is completely wrong.. I am a poor person so I only can afford a cheap cello. You also are offending the student who thinks that they can do this and they can be a good cellist. You are saying that there instrument is crap. So I’m sorry that we can’t afford your fancy cello but ur going to have to deal with it
Also TUNE THE CHEAP CELLO PROPERLY AND GIVE AN ACTUAL REVIEW.
If you watched the video you'd have heard him state that if he tuned the A up to 442Hz (or 221 at that octave) the string would have snapped because of the poor craftsmanship of the cheaper instrument, so he adjusted the rest of the strings to match the lower tuning of that A. Did you actually listen to that bit or did you click the video, not bother watching it in it's entirety, and make your judgement on what you THOUGHT was going to be in it?
too long. Too many words...just few sounds 👎🏼
Yo your hair has a mind on its own
Someone had to mention it
im watching and trying to make my entire hair move like that...I failed.
It’s just because of his forehead muscles, moving up and down haha
the second cello is out of tune
I thought that too
*affordable cello vs expensive cello. I played for 15 years and my most expensive cello was $1200
I agree the antique sounds better but thousands of dollars better? I am not so sure.
I have a very cheap chinesse cello. To make things worse the original varnish is black, a thick black paint. So it's volume is very low. The good thing about that cello is it's been autographed by Apocallyptica, so looks awesome and everybody envies my cello. The bad thing is that is very hard to play, i'm always struggling with it. when i play in a sightly better cello, everything seems so easy and sounds a lot better. I love my cello, but i would progress faster and sound better in a better made one. I bet a couple of thosands dollar would be worthy. And i'm not a professional cellist, not pretending to be one. But i'm serious about cello.
It's not about sound, it's about how it feels when you play
watch the video here on youtube by Peter Vel, I think it can play better if you make some adjustments
actually I don't see the big difference between the two
You can definitely hear a difference. Thanks for sharing.
This video is SO helpful in considering the purchase of my first cello! I can't wait to start learning, thank you!
@erinleaman So how did it go? Still playing? :)
lol dude.. you make both of them sound good. I had no idea crappy cellos could sound this good too. I guess it's mostly in the person's skill
This is so wrong and I wish people would stop making this mistake (not personally directed, just in general). A poor quality string instrument will still sound horrible regardless of how accurately a piece of music is played. It's just too hard to tell over digital recording--it really requires you to be in the same room. A crappy cello vs a quality cello will blow you away in person, no matter who or what is being played. A bad cello will always sound like a bad cello.
my suggestions for poor people, once you've played a few years, get expensive strings,
starting with high quality cello/strings, makes you work less to get a rich tone
I started out with cheap hoffman cello. I only have to get by with expensive strings, bridge, rosin, and bow. I have to save uo a lot of money for that sans the one my parents gave me, but it is still workable for several years until I can save up for more higher quality cello. Or take it to luthier if the problem lays in the wood. It can be expensive, but will worth about 5-7 years until you can save up for more better cello.
The open strings on the cheap cello SOUND TERRIBLE!!!! EWWW!!!!
IT HURTS MY EARS!!!!!!!!
The cheap cello should have been tuned!!! It being out of tune could be very misleading to some people who don’t have more extensive knowledge because of the brains natural negative response towards dissonance!
Why don't you suggest to your student to get lower gauge heilocore strings? Then it won't have so much tension to "snap" the string and thus allowing him or her to actually learn the instrument properly to get as good as you?
To be fair. The price can be 100 times different, but the sound effect is not 100 times different.
Thank you for demonstrating. I am about to exchange my rental for a new one, so this gives me something to look out for when selecting the new one :-)
So you have a student who owns a cello that breaks when tuned up to pitch? Boy, that's like having a car whose engine will blow up at city speeds...
Exactly. I was stunned by this and only this. It's the intonation on that cheap one that's terrible; not a huge difference in tone. Though I understand how having to exert more effort to get the same amount of sound would be annoying.
i think the bad cello still sounds pretty good. No wonder my teacher keep saying my student cello is fine, which I think I need a better cello. My teacher is a professional player at Vancouver Symphony Orchestra with a Ph.D.
You can hear tin sound in the cheap cello.
I have a cheap Chinese brand cello and I must say, I am struggling. I am a beginner cellist and my tone quality sucks. One day, however, my teacher happened upon an antique German cello. She told me to try it out. It felt like I was gliding. It sounded beautiful and rich instead of the tinny scratching sounds I got on my cello. I think a lot of the sound quality is because of the overtones and that results from the wood reverb and the strings. Anyhow, enough sciencey stuff hahaha. I love my cello and I'm sure I can make it soud unique. It won't be a classic sound but it will definetly become a good sound.
Great video by the way. You've gotten a new sub!
Cheap or expensive cello, it's depend on how the user play.
You know, a good cello that fits his requirements can still be a milled cello. Even Chinese. I'd be happy to agree with Fan Wu on nearly anything based on this video. I AM a professional cellist with 40 years experience performing and 25 years teaching experience. For all of you that think you have to spend 10,000+ you're wrong.
It's quite simple: Try it before you buy it. If you immediately fall in love with the sound of a "cheap" Cello, what's holding you back?
Thank you!
Would you recommend a $7k cello from Luis and Clark? I'm thinking about it since I travel a lot and would love to bring my cello without worry of severe weather damage.
GOD BLESS YOU SIR
Yours has a bit more vibration/rumble over tones, bit more life, but with some eq in software the cheap one could be made to sound pretty damn good with some tweaks. For live obviously that wouldnt work, but I think overall more people would be more capable of buying a cheap one compared to one that is as expensive as a car. The sound just isnt different enough to justify that kind of money, seems more like status and class that would push for the higher pricing as a priority.
Dont like the title. it may insult millions who can only afford a BAD cello. Teacher to poor student - "you got a bad lousy cheap cello". Better is to advise how to improve it? better strings?
the second sounds a bit off tune