Hey everyone! I had a feeling when I released this video late last year that it was going to be a bit polarizing, and sure enough that seems to be the case.😀 I wanted to address something that I originally left out of the video, but have seen come up quite a few times in the feedback. All of my tests/reviews are done by performing 2 different types of connections to Linux, FreeBSD, and Windows systems: - Directly connected - Through 2 different KVM switches (cheap and expensive) I always test against KVM switches because cheaper keyboards (or those with questionable firmware) tend to have difficulties properly sending keycodes through the switch. In some cases this is due to a cheap KVM switch (which is why I test against 2), but in most cases it's due to the quality of the keyboard itself. During my tests, I found that the Kinesis Advantage 2's macro capabilities are completely destroyed by running the keyboard through a KVM switch (regardless of switch quality). The same thing used to happen with the original HHKB, but has since been corrected in the HHKB Pro Classic. Given the price tag, I still stand by my opinion that this is inexcusable for a keyboard of this level, but this is also one of the contributing factors to why my impression was so negative. Anyway, I just wanted to address the "but you're not mapping the keys" comments, because this entire feature is irrelevant if using a KVM switch.
People are regularly missing the point of this board. You can change everything on it. You can add macros. Furthermore, you have layers for configuration. And this is actually a medical device. For people with problems, this is the only way to type.:) If you are young and healthy, you don't need this board. You may choose to invest into your health, but this is optional. BTW, they have a new model which addresses most of your quality complaints.:)
Do you use your keyboard as a wheel chock? Does your keyboard need to be titanium? I've been using this keyboard for over a year. It is the best, most comfortable keyboard I have ever used.
Agree on not impressive build quality, disagree on all else. Very comfortable and after configuration fingers are able to easily reach my needed macros/shortcuts.
To press left arrow with Ctrl and Shift, you would use the right Ctrl and Shift. To say that this keyboard makes it difficult to use modifiers is the complete opposite of the truth.
While the negative aspects of the keyboard are warranted (sort of...like your complaint about the cheap case doesn't really affect much of the typing experience), I think it's still misguided at best to give it an overall low score given how the design of it _actually_ helps wrist cramps and all those sickness that is caused by conventional keyboard designs...right now you don't have that problem but at some point in your life, you will...and of all the ergo keyboards that are available in the market, this is one of the few that address that problem...even the "fancier" Ergodox keebs doesn't really hold a candle to the Kinesis Advantage...the location of the thumb keys (which is weird on the ErgoDox) and the key wells of the KA sets it apart and IMO worth the price of admission. And it will be better with the upcoming Kinesis Advantage 360.
It was not a very fair review, really. I've been using the same Advantage 2 keyboard for ten years, the case doesn't show any signs of being flimsy and the cord hasn't been ripped out like he said. I think the reviewer probably didn't have a very good coffee that day, it's what it seems like. Certainly when I'm watching programming tutorials and I see the number of typos they make, I'm glad I use the Kinesis. I would recommend it. It comes with a booklet that has exercises for how to adjust and I only had to do the exercises 3 times, a total of 1.5 hours over 3 days and I was suddenly able to touch-type. I still can't touch-type on those square keyboards. The only thing he got right is that the function keys should be built better because yes you can't use them without looking at them.
I did not feel the quality was that bad. And if you want to seen thin cable look at my current keyboard. My major complaints are the arrow keys not being in a convenient arrangements, and think they should have left the control key below the shift key. That was the thing that irritated me the most. I will say that they were really good at repairing my keyboard when I blew out all the devices connected to my computer (USB and HDMI) with a surge. They repaired it with no question.
Wtf nobody else mentioned the build quality... I had my suspicions based on the look on-camera. I almost bought it, thanks to you I will not - I can't stand low-end quality on anything. This is seriously one of the worst things ever. Why? Why would anyone sell a $369 keyboard and make it trash is beyond me
I have a Kinesis, similar model though it has some differences but the design is the same for the keyboard layout if all you're doing is typing in a word processor. He says it takes two weeks to adjust. When I got this keyboard I was in a two year writing program and I used it for three weeks off and on. Never really got used to it. I am also older so I can relate to your concerns. If you want more information drop a comment and I will do my best to answer.
Using it for 2 years as a programmer and I'd give it a 9/10. I must admit I never noticed the build quality beyond the look feeling like the "corrective shoes" of keyboards
Been using this keyboard for my job as a programmer (with the Dvorak Programmer Layout - you have to download a keyboard file from the Net for this, search for Dvorak Programmer) for about 10+ years... and never looked back. This is the almost perfect keyboard for programmers (with the layout mentioned, but plain Dvorak would do as well, I guess). Sometimes I have to type something on a laptop keyboard and... oh, man! This is so painful. The problems with ergonomics on the standard keyboard with the QWERTY layout are immediately felt. Probably the most important thing about this Kinesis is the arrow keys. The fact you can reach them without getting your hands off of the keyboard is just amazing and invaluable.
The build quality is actually decent. It is solid, it won't break, and the idea of this keyboard is for it to be "portable", if you can believe this given its size, so this is why it is light. The function keys are indeed crappy, but still pretty usable. What is worse than crappy function keys is no function keys IMO, for example ergodox and others.
Ergonomics wise this keyboard has been the best so far. And with the pedal switches attached the Keypads can be activated using your feet, and get instant access to right side for comfortable arrows keys or Numpad Etc. Build wise I don't think it's that bad either as since my last 8 years of usage haven't had any build issue. Will be needing a replacement soon, but I can't find any keyboard as comfortable as this curved keywell style, so probably will wait for the Advantage 360 and upgrade to it.
Why on earth wouldn't you remap f5 to compile to one of the thumbs. Part of appeal is the remapping. Your not using is it right. Frequently used keys need (MUST) be remapped.
10:55 you could also, like, use both your hands, seeing as there are modifier keys on both sides of a board. Is that too much of a post hoc justification?
im generally agreeing with the review, the build quality seems very subpar overall. after using fan spin offs like the dactyl and espescially just qmk equipped boards seem to have alleviated many issues like the modifiers are so much nicer using homerow mods for an example
hahah yes this keyboard is hard to use, but it will kiil your wrist pain if you can figure it out! I don't know if I would have made it through programming school without it. Should also be noted that if you have small hands this keyboard is gonna be really hard to use. I have about 9 1/2 inches from my thumb to my pinky so I can alt-tab while still preserving some curvature in my hand. For some people with smaller hands this may be a bit of a reach. The customization of the macros has many potential advantages generating template scipts ect. with the touch of a button but lets be honest what framework do you use that doesn't already basically allow you to do that lmaoo. Customization can really be a time waster and bottomless pit in which developers spend a ridiculous amount of time accomplishing precisely 0. If you can't use it out of the box relatively well I believe its a bad product. This product worked for me but it's not for everybody...maybe like 5% lmao
Damn, which ergo keyboard do you recommend for small hands? i was thinking of getting this one but with my fingers stretched I barely have about 7,8 inches lmao I don't know if getting something like this or a moonlander, but i think i'll have the same problem with the thumb cluster
You can't, really. You can customize the function of the keys. The keycaps are a different matter. They all have different profiles, so rearranging them spoils the intended structure and feel of the keyboard. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge and Edge RGB gaming keyboards have uniform keycaps so they can be freely switched around, but the Advantage 2 does not have this.
Appreciate the honest review - too many people gush over the Advantage and so reviews like this are hard to come across, I was also concerned about the build quality, and this certainly confirmed some of those fears.
Thank you for brutally honest review. For the money, it ought to work and feel like a premium product. At least it ought to show improvement over the years for the weaknesses you and others have pointed out.
If you're looking for something similar that has a better build quality, the ErgoDox EZ boards are very nice: ergodox-ez.com/. They're still expensive ($300+), but they offer true split and an overall better feel. That being said, the arrow key placement on these types of boards keeps me from using them as a daily driver. Thanks for your feedback, and I'm glad you found the review helpful!
It does have a function row at the top, but it's almost like an afterthought. The "function" keys are just standard mushy switches that, in my opinion, are spaced too closely together.
@@techbytes4988 are you referring to the ErgoDox or the Kinesis? Know of any good reviews on the ErgoDox or do you plan to do one? I realise your channel just started so I don't expect you to go out and buy one if you don't have one already. That said, I am very happy to have found your slice of TH-cam! Subscribed.
@raine - Thank you for the positive feedback - I greatly appreciate it! In regards to my comment on the function keys, I was referring to the Kinesis. The ErgoDox (both EZ and Moonlander versions) have their function keys mapped to a different layer. They are fully programmable so you can always change which key sits on which layer, but I personally have never found using layers to access keys too comfortable. That being said, many people love it, so it all comes down to personal preference. I have only had the opportunity to try an ErgoDox one time, so unfortunately I don't have the ability to do a review on one (yet). The best, honest reviews I have found have been on the r/MechanicalKeyboards subreddit (for example: www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/25zak7/ergodox_owners_do_any_of_you_regret_your_purchase/). Granted everything out there is anecdotal, but I've seen more positive critiques and honest feedback for this board on reddit. Most people seem to love it. If I find a good video I'll be sure to link it in! Thanks again for watching!
Hey everyone! I had a feeling when I released this video late last year that it was going to be a bit polarizing, and sure enough that seems to be the case.😀 I wanted to address something that I originally left out of the video, but have seen come up quite a few times in the feedback.
All of my tests/reviews are done by performing 2 different types of connections to Linux, FreeBSD, and Windows systems:
- Directly connected
- Through 2 different KVM switches (cheap and expensive)
I always test against KVM switches because cheaper keyboards (or those with questionable firmware) tend to have difficulties properly sending keycodes through the switch. In some cases this is due to a cheap KVM switch (which is why I test against 2), but in most cases it's due to the quality of the keyboard itself.
During my tests, I found that the Kinesis Advantage 2's macro capabilities are completely destroyed by running the keyboard through a KVM switch (regardless of switch quality). The same thing used to happen with the original HHKB, but has since been corrected in the HHKB Pro Classic. Given the price tag, I still stand by my opinion that this is inexcusable for a keyboard of this level, but this is also one of the contributing factors to why my impression was so negative.
Anyway, I just wanted to address the "but you're not mapping the keys" comments, because this entire feature is irrelevant if using a KVM switch.
People are regularly missing the point of this board. You can change everything on it. You can add macros. Furthermore, you have layers for configuration.
And this is actually a medical device. For people with problems, this is the only way to type.:) If you are young and healthy, you don't need this board. You may choose to invest into your health, but this is optional. BTW, they have a new model which addresses most of your quality complaints.:)
Do you use your keyboard as a wheel chock? Does your keyboard need to be titanium? I've been using this keyboard for over a year. It is the best, most comfortable keyboard I have ever used.
Agree on not impressive build quality, disagree on all else. Very comfortable and after configuration fingers are able to easily reach my needed macros/shortcuts.
To press left arrow with Ctrl and Shift, you would use the right Ctrl and Shift. To say that this keyboard makes it difficult to use modifiers is the complete opposite of the truth.
While the negative aspects of the keyboard are warranted (sort of...like your complaint about the cheap case doesn't really affect much of the typing experience), I think it's still misguided at best to give it an overall low score given how the design of it _actually_ helps wrist cramps and all those sickness that is caused by conventional keyboard designs...right now you don't have that problem but at some point in your life, you will...and of all the ergo keyboards that are available in the market, this is one of the few that address that problem...even the "fancier" Ergodox keebs doesn't really hold a candle to the Kinesis Advantage...the location of the thumb keys (which is weird on the ErgoDox) and the key wells of the KA sets it apart and IMO worth the price of admission. And it will be better with the upcoming Kinesis Advantage 360.
I feel like he saw the price tag and saw the generally positive reception and set out to be a wet blanket.
It was not a very fair review, really. I've been using the same Advantage 2 keyboard for ten years, the case doesn't show any signs of being flimsy and the cord hasn't been ripped out like he said. I think the reviewer probably didn't have a very good coffee that day, it's what it seems like. Certainly when I'm watching programming tutorials and I see the number of typos they make, I'm glad I use the Kinesis. I would recommend it. It comes with a booklet that has exercises for how to adjust and I only had to do the exercises 3 times, a total of 1.5 hours over 3 days and I was suddenly able to touch-type. I still can't touch-type on those square keyboards. The only thing he got right is that the function keys should be built better because yes you can't use them without looking at them.
I did not feel the quality was that bad. And if you want to seen thin cable look at my current keyboard. My major complaints are the arrow keys not being in a convenient arrangements, and think they should have left the control key below the shift key. That was the thing that irritated me the most. I will say that they were really good at repairing my keyboard when I blew out all the devices connected to my computer (USB and HDMI) with a surge. They repaired it with no question.
you have to move modifiers to make it work for programming.
Wtf nobody else mentioned the build quality... I had my suspicions based on the look on-camera.
I almost bought it, thanks to you I will not - I can't stand low-end quality on anything. This is seriously one of the worst things ever. Why? Why would anyone sell a $369 keyboard and make it trash is beyond me
I kinda feel like the qmk kint mod can solve all of your issues
Ah, enough said. All I do is type and I'm old, everything hurts. Maybe this is for me
I have a Kinesis, similar model though it has some differences but the design is the same for the keyboard layout if all you're doing is typing in a word processor.
He says it takes two weeks to adjust. When I got this keyboard I was in a two year writing program and I used it for three weeks off and on. Never really got used to it.
I am also older so I can relate to your concerns. If you want more information drop a comment and I will do my best to answer.
Using it for 2 years as a programmer and I'd give it a 9/10. I must admit I never noticed the build quality beyond the look feeling like the "corrective shoes" of keyboards
Been using this keyboard for my job as a programmer (with the Dvorak Programmer Layout - you have to download a keyboard file from the Net for this, search for Dvorak Programmer) for about 10+ years... and never looked back. This is the almost perfect keyboard for programmers (with the layout mentioned, but plain Dvorak would do as well, I guess). Sometimes I have to type something on a laptop keyboard and... oh, man! This is so painful. The problems with ergonomics on the standard keyboard with the QWERTY layout are immediately felt. Probably the most important thing about this Kinesis is the arrow keys. The fact you can reach them without getting your hands off of the keyboard is just amazing and invaluable.
I don’t know. You’re right about the cheap case but it does not feel flimsy at all to me when typing.
Its very ridgid and not all that light either, i would by no means call it filimsly either.
Been using mine for years and even carrying it around. It's very solid and rigid.
The build quality is actually decent. It is solid, it won't break, and the idea of this keyboard is for it to be "portable", if you can believe this given its size, so this is why it is light.
The function keys are indeed crappy, but still pretty usable. What is worse than crappy function keys is no function keys IMO, for example ergodox and others.
Ergodox has function keys. You just put them on another layer.
Ergonomics wise this keyboard has been the best so far. And with the pedal switches attached the Keypads can be activated using your feet, and get instant access to right side for comfortable arrows keys or Numpad Etc.
Build wise I don't think it's that bad either as since my last 8 years of usage haven't had any build issue.
Will be needing a replacement soon, but I can't find any keyboard as comfortable as this curved keywell style, so probably will wait for the Advantage 360 and upgrade to it.
Why on earth wouldn't you remap f5 to compile to one of the thumbs. Part of appeal is the remapping. Your not using is it right. Frequently used keys need (MUST) be remapped.
10:55 you could also, like, use both your hands, seeing as there are modifier keys on both sides of a board. Is that too much of a post hoc justification?
im generally agreeing with the review, the build quality seems very subpar overall.
after using fan spin offs like the dactyl and espescially just qmk equipped boards seem to have alleviated many issues like the modifiers are so much nicer using homerow mods for an example
Exactly my thinking as well. More hype than any real good for neo-vim lovers.
...Keyboard snob melts down and slams KA2 based on thickness of plastic and fanciness of switches....
hahah yes this keyboard is hard to use, but it will kiil your wrist pain if you can figure it out! I don't know if I would have made it through programming school without it. Should also be noted that if you have small hands this keyboard is gonna be really hard to use. I have about 9 1/2 inches from my thumb to my pinky so I can alt-tab while still preserving some curvature in my hand. For some people with smaller hands this may be a bit of a reach. The customization of the macros has many potential advantages generating template scipts ect. with the touch of a button but lets be honest what framework do you use that doesn't already basically allow you to do that lmaoo. Customization can really be a time waster and bottomless pit in which developers spend a ridiculous amount of time accomplishing precisely 0. If you can't use it out of the box relatively well I believe its a bad product. This product worked for me but it's not for everybody...maybe like 5% lmao
Damn, which ergo keyboard do you recommend for small hands? i was thinking of getting this one but with my fingers stretched I barely have about 7,8 inches lmao I don't know if getting something like this or a moonlander, but i think i'll have the same problem with the thumb cluster
@Baby Zane I don't have small hands or a moonlander but everyone I know has to stretch to get to the top row.
Well you can't please everybody, but kudos to KINESIS for trying this concept. It looked so cool! Can't wait to try it. Its like typing 2.0
The casing might only matter if your throwing your keyboard across the room.
let me guess, you run arch linux
Plz name keyboard ?
You can actually rearrange the keys to fit your use case, you know. Thats what the key cap puller is for?
You can't, really. You can customize the function of the keys. The keycaps are a different matter. They all have different profiles, so rearranging them spoils the intended structure and feel of the keyboard. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge and Edge RGB gaming keyboards have uniform keycaps so they can be freely switched around, but the Advantage 2 does not have this.
Appreciate the honest review - too many people gush over the Advantage and so reviews like this are hard to come across, I was also concerned about the build quality, and this certainly confirmed some of those fears.
Left thumb for backspace ❤Make Cherry MX Clears and I'm in😊
Thank you for brutally honest review. For the money, it ought to work and feel like a premium product. At least it ought to show improvement over the years for the weaknesses you and others have pointed out.
Thanks for honest and thoughtful review
really honest and intelligent review! Thanks!!
with their software every key is programable!
Thank you so much, will not buy then.
After finishing this nice review , yeah 339 dollars saved
If you're looking for something similar that has a better build quality, the ErgoDox EZ boards are very nice: ergodox-ez.com/. They're still expensive ($300+), but they offer true split and an overall better feel. That being said, the arrow key placement on these types of boards keeps me from using them as a daily driver. Thanks for your feedback, and I'm glad you found the review helpful!
@@techbytes4988 Great thanks, why doesn't this keyboard have Function keys?
It does have a function row at the top, but it's almost like an afterthought. The "function" keys are just standard mushy switches that, in my opinion, are spaced too closely together.
@@techbytes4988 are you referring to the ErgoDox or the Kinesis? Know of any good reviews on the ErgoDox or do you plan to do one?
I realise your channel just started so I don't expect you to go out and buy one if you don't have one already. That said, I am very happy to have found your slice of TH-cam! Subscribed.
@raine - Thank you for the positive feedback - I greatly appreciate it! In regards to my comment on the function keys, I was referring to the Kinesis. The ErgoDox (both EZ and Moonlander versions) have their function keys mapped to a different layer. They are fully programmable so you can always change which key sits on which layer, but I personally have never found using layers to access keys too comfortable. That being said, many people love it, so it all comes down to personal preference.
I have only had the opportunity to try an ErgoDox one time, so unfortunately I don't have the ability to do a review on one (yet). The best, honest reviews I have found have been on the r/MechanicalKeyboards subreddit (for example: www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/25zak7/ergodox_owners_do_any_of_you_regret_your_purchase/). Granted everything out there is anecdotal, but I've seen more positive critiques and honest feedback for this board on reddit. Most people seem to love it.
If I find a good video I'll be sure to link it in! Thanks again for watching!
honest review
Love your reviews!
hi
Thanks for your review. I looked at this keyboard, but it just looked way too awkward. I ended up going with the Freestyle Pro and I adore it.
The Function key looks so sucks, I need them
You pay 350 euro or dollars and you hope it will last a few years. It probably won't.
It'll literally last you 40 years lol
@@williamfish1407 people still using some from the 90's