The Lost Streetcars of Chicago | Finding the Last Green Hornet Tracks - IT'S HISTORY
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IT’S HISTORY - Weekly tales of American Urban Decay as presented by your host Ryan Socash.
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could you cover mass transit in Atlanta?
Living in Chicago, I've seen loads of tracks sticking out here and there. Bricked roads as well. Usually on side streets or around warehouses. I've even seen some exposed during street renovations and under bridges. It makes me sad for some reason? Like an era lost and nearly forgotten. Still very cool to see
Makes me sad as well. We can blame GM and lobbyists of the automobile industry for turning the U.S. into the car centric country it is today.
@@carstarsarstenstesenn not really. Cars are just more convenient
Tracks near warehouses are usually actual rail lines. Chicago, like New York, has a lot of history just under the surface.
@@wintersbattleofbands1144 I thought so but these tracks are half buried. Only the tops of the tracks can be seen or just glimpses here and there. Usually brick streets can be found nearby since the roads aren't kept very nice
It was called the GM NCL Scandal. See my comment above.
In Amsterdam, NY the trolley car tracks are still visible in places just under the asphalt of the roadways.
Two generations ago you could take a trolley to Albany, Schenectady, and many local towns in the area.
We have General Motors to thank for destroying the trolley car transportation system in America.
We have general motors to thank for helping kill passenger trains in general
That is a crazy fact, I had no idea!
@@jimmythatguy - well, that was even used as a plot device on Who Framed Roger Rabbit if any of you remember... (reality is stranger than fiction, ya know)
National City Lines, owned by GM, Firestone Tires and several other companies. They were not the only reason for the decline of the streetcars. They played a part, but there were many factors why most systems went away and a few (San Francisco, New Orleans, Pittsburgh) remained. Would be a good topic for a video, Ryan.
Many streetcar and most interurban systems disappeared before GM was heavily involved in the bus business. The electric railway business started to go downhill when Henry Ford perfected the assembly line system for building Model T cars. GM got into the act with GMAC financing and annual model changes, providing an ever-growing stream of used cars for those who couldn't afford a new one. As late as 1970, one could still buy a usable third hand car for $100 or so and have change left over from a $5 bill after filling the tank. By then there were more operating trolley museums than active streetcar systems.
The MBTA in Boston still runs PCC cars on the High Speed Line from Ashmont Station in Dorchester to Mattapan.
ya you guys still have some PCCs i bet they have to make there own parts when something breaks though
@@randyblu25 All new and upgraded power equipment and safety controls !
the green hornets were gorgeous. Chicago should consider investing in modern streetcars like in Portland Toronto, Milwuakee, Atlanta, and a lot of other North American cities
Nashville used to have them and need them more than ever now
Cincinnati’s has worked great 😅😅😂🤣😳😩
Toronto's Streetcar system is from the same era as the Chicago system, it just survived the 20th Century - Just.
Driving in chicago is terrible already we dont need streetcars on the roads too too. Thats the whole reason why we put em above the street aka the el lol
@@plisskenationbackfromthede3657 better public transit takes more cars off the road. less cars on the road = better traffic.
Chicago streets have more than enough space to give dedicated lanes and right of way to trams so they don't interfere with automobile traffic.
If done right, it would help our traffic problems
I remember my mother taking me with her to ride the Green Hornets on the North Broadway line in Chicago. I remember the rapid acceleration, and smooth, quiet ride of the cars, much superior to the buses that would replace them. The only negative was the inability of the streetcar to maneuver around traffic, as noted in the video.
The 36 Broadway-State route, no doubt. The northern portion lasted until February 16, 1957. After that, only the 22 Clark-Wentworth route remained.
@@8avexp Sounds about right. A typical trip would be from Argyle, where we lived, to the public library at the NW corner of Montrose and Broadway. I vaguely remember the terminus in the Fullerton area.
Fond memories of the streetcar rides. Thanks!
As a kid growing up in Chicago during the md to late 1960's I remember riding the electric buses that ran powered by overhead wires. They were capable of some maneuverability unlike the streetcars. It was cool watching the sparks fly wherever the buses crossed another set of wires.
I'm 60 years old and was raised in Chicago. I also remember the same thing. 😊
Yes! You can still see the very wide 'alleys' where the tracks were, on Cermak road in Cicero from Austin Blvd to Oak park.
I remember that as well. Also you never got a wiff of nasty diesel exhaust and they were quiet.
There's a remnant that's very easy to see, all over Chicago. Partly because it's also from the electric buses. As you drive down a street you'll notice many heavy, steel light posts, buried in the ground like an electric pole. They're always directly across the street from each other, not staggered like modern street lights. They're also slightly tilted away from the street. These supported the cantenary wires for the trolleys and buses, and there's millions of them all over the city.
Those poles are all over Pittsburgh. You can trace the trolley lines by following them.
I love this channel, this dorky shit is my jam.
Thanks Christopher, funny enough many people who watch the daily channel stories said they were surprised that I wasn't as nerdy as they had expected!
The Green Hornets' trucks (wheel sets and electric traction/propulsion motors) were recycled, being placed under then new CTA "L" cars, the 6000 class, known somewhat affectionately as "Spam Cans". Some of these cars, now retired and kept at museums, have been reacquired by CTA and restored for it's Heritage Fleet.
Yes my grandfather and father operated a trucking company out of a building at 2577 W. Armitage which was formerly owned by the CTA. I’m not sure what happened and where inside the building, but I’m sure the building is still standing to this day. Also, I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember, but I am, when the L cars were in dark green and white before they were replaced by the brushed aluminum
awesome! I recall the green seats on the El, too.
I remember *stainless steel* sided railcars made by Budd in Northeast Philadelphia in about 1985. I think these CTA railcars were the last cars made at Budd/TransitAmerica.
Those green and white L cars you mentioned were the remains of about 600 PCC streetcars. They were built into L and subway cars, and were officially retired around 1993. There are a few TH-cam videos that throw the entire final run, all the way to the storage yard at Kimball and Lawrence Ave.
Visit the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, Il. There you will see a few of these L cars, as well as the last surviving PCC streetcar, that was one of the last ones to run in Chicago.
One thing that should be noted here is that most of the Chicago PCC cars had a second life of sorts. Any usable parts were stripped and repurposed into the then-new 6000 series elevated rail cars, built by St louis Car Company in the 50s
570 of the 600 Green Hornets had their components salvaged for the 6000s (and the 50 single cars). One car, 4391, survives at the Illinois Railway Museum.
When I was a little kid, I can remember seeing streetcar tracks. At that time Chicago used electric Trolley buses, that still used overhead electric lines. They lasted until the 60's, when diesel buses took over.....Now they say that they want to go back to electric power. The electric trolly buses could pull over to the curb to let people off and on.
The city of Toronto Canada TTC used PCC street cars just like the Green Hornets. Called the Red Rockets, these cars were in service for decades until replaced by more modern vehicles in the 1980s. My Dad was a Test Technician at Canadian General Electric in the 1940-50s and he tested the traction motors for Red Rockets. He told me a story of a time when he was on the last run of the night and he persuaded the TTC driver to “give her” and they got that street car up to nearly 70 mph on Danforth Ave. East.
OMG Thats cool! Its hard to believe Yonge, Bloor and Danforth all had streetcars at one time. I love how the tracks to Witchwood Barns are still on Witchwood ave. but the barn has been gone for almost 30 years!
Did your dad work at CGE when it was over around Landsdowne and Davenport and Dupont? (the only GE building there now is the Uranium processing plant for the CANDO reactors) The old train shops are now condos
yes. i remember the Rocket quite fondly. i remember seeing parts of rails behind Woodbine subway station. There is a small transit museum called The Halton Radial Railway. They have running versions of the Rocket and the old Peter Witt models from Toronto. The museum is run on donations and volunteers. They do restoration on old streetcars and have old Toronto subways on display you can walk through. They have a section of track they run the streetcars on. They also have some different transit cars from around the world.
@@seanballantine4647 yea i remember the old woodbine tracks. i think they finaly removed em cuse they renovated the station. Keel street has a "motovator" off the east bound platform going down to the old streetcar loop was walled off when west streetcars went obsolete when bloor line was extended . Halton county rsil....i tinted them some old based paint the old ttc marron and cream in sept (i work at sherwin -williams) i want to go see an old G train...but i dont drive.
The Chicago PCCs were unique in several ways because of the union rules. One of the advantages of the PCC was that it was designed for single person operation, where the driver also collected the fares. In Chicago, they retained two person crews with the conductor collecting fares in the back. There were three sets of doors - in the front, a single door in the middle, and the area in the back.
The theory was that with the fare collection in the back, the driver could start moving while fare collection was still underway. With three sets of doors, people could exit more quickly.
Another PCC innovation that Chicago ignored was foot pedals. The base model was familiar to people used to driving a bus. The Chicago PCCs had hand controls that were more similar to pre-PCC streetcars.
The three doors made the green hornets very long, and as a result had a longer turning radius. Other cities with winding streets could not have used those cars.
@@ArtStoneUS The prewar Blue Geese were front-loading while the postwar Green Hornets were rear-loading. All of the Blue Geese were converted to one-man operation in 1952 and received pedals. A group of Green Hornets were converted to optional one-man or two-man operation.
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Very sad they can’t bring the street cars back, I do believe it would boom. Living outside Charlotte, they have brought back a couple street lines and they are really busy. Definitely a lost era
It would cost tens of trillions of dollars; I'm afraid they are gone for good, especially the electric interurbans.
Love this. I operated streetcars in Toronto years ago and love seeing some history on any mode of rail transportation.
The Chicago streetcars were great, but a couple of factors led to their demise:
1) The economics of the time (late 1940s to 1950s) were working against a large system.
2) The demographics at the time were changing. White flight at the time led to an emptying out if formerly dense neighborhoods.
3) When the CTA took over in 1947, competition between the surface lines and the 'L' ended. The thinking of the CTA at the time was that the surface lines should be a feeder to the 'L' and that the 'L' should do the heavy line haul service.
4) Because of their high cost and inflexibility, the streetcars could not achieve the above.
5. Even before the CTA took over, the former Surface Lines was using buses for expanding services.
Don't forget General Motors. They systematically dismantled the trolley car systems in most major American cities so that buses made by GM became the primary public transportation.
@@freetolook3727 That didn't happen in Chicago. When the Chicago Transit Authority converted to buses, they mainly did it with Twin Coach propane buses.
@@paulj6756 it arguably still had an effect on Chicago. The phenomenon of nearly every other city in the country ditching their trams around the same time probably served as extra encouragement for Chicago to make the switch over to buses
@@carstarsarstenstesenn Yes, you're very correct
@@paulj6756Yes indeed !! th-cam.com/video/p-I8GDklsN4/w-d-xo.html
It’s cool seeing all the old street cars around San Francisco. I’m happy my city bought a few from a lot of worldly cities. We also have some French and German street cars running on the F line.
I was over there several times between 2002 and 2010; I’m from London, England. At that time there were tracks still visible outside Hoboken Terminal NJ. They didn’t look as if the road surface had worn away, I don’t think they had ever been covered up. I have no idea when they were last used.
@@srfurley did you mean to reply to another comment? NJ is on the complete opposite side of the country from SF lol.
@@srfurley Stephen, those tracks in the street in front of the rail terminal in Hoboken were last used by Public Service streetcars in the late 1940's. It's an historic area and those tracks with Belgian Blocks were retained for looks or charm. By the way, the vast Public Service streetcar demise in New Jersey was another General Motors hack job. While never actually taking over Public Service Coordinated Transport from parent Public Service Electric & Gas Co., officials were bribed to buy huge fleets of GM buses. Executives even got new Cadillac cars every year. I knew the guys who went to Detroit to get the cars every year. Not every streetcar system that GM destroyed was actually taken over or bought out.
th-cam.com/video/p-I8GDklsN4/w-d-xo.html
According to the book: Chicago Surface Lines, by Alan R Lind (1974), the CTA sold 570 of its 600 postwar "Green Hornet" street cars to The St Louis Car Company where they were scrapped, but components from those cars were salvaged and used to build new CTA Rapid Transit "L" cars (6201-6720). Attempts to modify the street cars into "L" train cars proved unfeasible, but it was possible to take the trucks, motors, control equipment, motor generators, track brakes, seats, light fixtures and even window frames from the retired street cars and install them in the newly built rapid transit car bodies. Built from 1954 to 1959, these "6,000 series" Rapid Transit cars operated as permanently married 2-car trains that would remain in operation with the CTA until 1992.
THE STREETCARS WERE GONE BEFORE THE "FISHBOWLS"CAME OUT
Also the experimental 5000 series cars (4 built) and the "singles" 1-50 used PCC car parts. The singles operated into the late 90's. The singles were double ended cars and didn't need to be paired like the 6000s.
love the video, I own a section of that orginal track. It is on display at the South East Side History Museum, Along with many other artifacts from the area.
Oh wow! That is amazing. How did you become an owner of the old track?
Two of the PCC green hornet streetcars you showed were MBTA Green Line Arborway Branch streetcars, only we in Boston called them trolleys. Boston still has trolley lines but almost all the streetcars were replaced with LRVs at least twice. The remainder run on the Mattapan High Speed Line.
Can remember entering the center door of old trollies back in the 1950's with my dad to pay the fare. Philly still has 4 or 5 trolley lines and better yet some track less trolley lines that have a small diesel engine to take over during power problems. Backup engines can only supply enough power to go maybe 25 MPH on a level road.
Philly has five lines that run from Center City to the western side of the city. Reportedly they survived National City Lines' predations only because NCL couldn't figure out a way to ventilate the tunnels for bus use. They all use 1980s-vintage Kawasaki cars that have operated well but are at the end of their serives lives. SEPTA has plans underway to acquire new articulated, low-floor trolleys (sp) for those lines and the two surviving Red Arrow routes.
There's also one heritage line on Girard Avenue that's served by a mix of restored PCC cars and buses when needed. However the PCCs have needed *a lot* of rehab work and many have been OOS.
As a kid who grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, I appreciated the picture of the GM "New Look" fishbowl with the HSR's Sanatorium route displayed.
Years ago I took color movies of the Hamilton electric trolley coach system that the fools scrapped and replaced with diesel buses.
The fifties were a sad time for Streetcars, and with it, efficient surface transit. I lay the fault directly on those Greedy Mothers at General Motors. I think the last one was here in Ottawa, Canada, in 1959. Toronto, Ontario managed to resist the “modernization”, and still has an expanding system.
Outstanding report, great photographic views.
So good to know that Americans are awakening to the truth that we need more rails and PCC trolleys or trams to advance mobility and advance commerce. Keep up the great work.
You should do a video on the Edgewater Beach Hotel in Chicago!
Very cool idea!
That is a great idea for a future episode.
I worked for the Executive Office of my fraternity from 1989-94. During that time I was well aware of a group of fraternity executives that met yearly. The group is called Edgewater. It wasn't until after I moved to Chicago I learned the group met at the Edgewater Beach Hotel and the group adopted the name.
I'd be interested to learn more about the common big city, post civil war activity of annexing adjacent townships, boroughs whose names became neighborhood names. I live in the Lakeview neighborhood and the local grade school Nettlehorst posted a plaque with a timeline when Chicago annexed Lakeview.
Or the rise and fall of beautiful stately homes on Lake Michigan's edge like Sheridan Road as Lake Shore Drive was developed and the land reclaimation and park devepment further separated them.
Or the Park District in Chicago and boulevard system development with the guidance of Jens Jenson. And the creation of the free Lincoln Park Zoo.
Thanks for another great video! The downfall of the streetcars was the result of the oil and tire companies successful attempt to sell the idea of big gas hogging buses that could drive 24/7!!!
Used to ride the PCC green trolleys in Philadelphia during the 60s and 70s.
Toronto kept its streetcar system. Some of the old PCC cars were still in service in the early 1980s. The Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) has a couple of them preserved and runs them out for special occasions (I think you can rent them for events too). Toronto has continued to update its system. The latest streetcars coming into service are some sleek low floored European style streetcars originally built by Bombardier.
Toronto is currently experiencing massive line failures in relationship to the new trains. The new system has been plagued since the beginning.
First: Great video. Second: Really glad San Francisco kept some of their cable cars (the steep hills had something to do with that.) Third: The L.A. red cars (Pacific Electric) came to mind watching this. Thanks.....
Thanks Mike! We actually produced an episode about the Lost Street cars of LA but never released it, your comment made me think that perhaps we should share that episode with the world. Thanks for watching! Ryan
@@ITSHISTORY Plz do. Now I'm interested.
@@ITSHISTORY I would love to see that episode
Some years ago I met the attorney, who, in the 1950s, led the lawsuit which prevented the City of San Francisco from eliminating the cable cars and replacing them with buses. Interesting fellow. His wife was as interesting. She was a Hungarian Jew who had numbers tatooed on her arm from the WW2 Nazi concentration camps.
I'm 76 years old and remember riding in those red streetcars. I also remember when my leg got caught in the doors as they closed. I was dragged about a 1/2 block with my Mom + may GOD rest her soul + holding on to me as she screamed while running alongside the moving car at the conductor to stop. He stopped, opened the door and my leg was released. Damn near died that time.
I work as a trucker around the area, and one place I deliver to on occasion is not far off the Bishop Ford. On 104th St either at Torrence or Muskegon, there's a pothole revealing a real cool glimpse of cobblestone and streetcar track
Ongoing issue. Remnant . There is no extra "e" after the "m." Rem-nant.
Cool!
In Toronto, they call them Red Rockets. We have a love-hate relationship with our streetcar system. It’s all Bombardier now. They keep two PCCs, a CLRV, and a couple of Peter Witts around for special occasions.
Do a video on raising the street level in Chicago.
I love the videos and would watch it without a second thought. That said the youtube channel Highlight History did an extremely great video on this subject. This was the title "That Time the Entire City of Chicago was Raised about Ten Feet for Reasons"
Hey there, we actually covered that in our video about Chicago's water works and in March we will release an episode about the secrets of Chicago sewer system that also deal with the topic.
@@ITSHISTORY
Awesome! Thanks. Great work.
I sent this to my mom (80) and it brought back memories of her using the streetcars on their weekly grocery trip from Jackson Park to Stony Island.
Yeah, this is a little bit different, I had to go to work in Chicago several times. So, I checked the web to see what to do when I went to Chicago. I came across an article on the web about some old tunnel system that ran beneath the city core that was used to deliver products and goods to the various buildings without having to deal with weather or traffic. I’ve never been under there before. Definitely something very interesting to me. Stay safe everyone!
That tunnel system was for small trains to move freight and coal ash to store and other builds. A contractor pierce one driving pilings in the Chicago River flooding the bulk of downtown Chicago. The hole was plugged. These tunnels are accessed only for inspections and repair of electric and communication lines that now line them. There is an out of print book called "40 Feet Below" with the full history and great pictures. You should be able to find it on google with old book dealers.
@@rbrachmann yeah buddy you’re definitely right about that,
I’ve been to Chicago several times,
I’m just very interested in going down there in order to check it all out so that I can inspect how everything works as well as how structurally everything was done,
I’m just very curious ,
I personally think that the whole plan was a very good idea at the time, particularly due to how freaking cold the winters can get in the Windy City,
Not to mention how historical everything was left,
Definitely fascinating stuffs,
I personally believe that it’s a step back into time,
Stay safe buddy and please remember to keep your hands clean and washed up at all times so that you can protect yourself as well as others around you ,
Awesome video as always. Thanks for posting these moments in history.
Awesome yet sad video
16:00 - This rail-track was not paved-over, because the thicker road surface would reduce clearance height under the bridge.
Now that's history! Chicago style!
I’m a bus operator for the Chicago Transit Authority and I work at the 77th street bus barn and I walk on these tracks everyday at work when I’m going to get a bus to start my shift
Good story man loved it!!! ☮️✌️♥️✝️✝️😀👌
Glad you enjoyed it
I remember in the 80's, the intersection at Lawrence & Damon collapsed in a giant sink hole due to a water main leak. The sink hole was huge and made the entire intersection impassable. The hole was deep and full of loose pavers or bricks. Lawrence had two sets of street car tracks which held their place from one side of the hole to the other, still perfectly straight.
Wow I'm so thrilled. I wasn't born then but I'm so amazed. I love my Chicago hometown. Thank you for sharing.
Many of the old streetcars were sold or auctioned and repurposed as "streetcar diners." I know of two notable examples that exist. The first is in Gardner, IL. This streetcar diner was originally a lunch counter at the Riviera Roadhouse, which was just outside Gardner on Route 66. After the Riviera burned, the streetcar was moved and restored and is now on display in downtown Gardner. The second is in a place called Red Oak II, which sits outside Carthage, MO. Red Oak II is a "town" made from old buildings that have been relocated to the site. They have a beautifully restored version of a streetcar diner repurposed from a streetcar that, if it didn't run in Chicago, closely resembles those that did.
There were always visible tracks on Western Boulevard between south 47th and 31st
Send me a photo if it still is, I'd love to see that !
My grandfather, Harry Burke was a CTA streetcar conductor & driver in the 30s-60s, transitioning to busses. Grandpa and Grandma retired to a lakefront home in Wisconsin in the early '60s.
Philadelphia still has a few of the PCC cars restored and running on Girard Ave.
Not now they don't. The jerks at SEPTA in Philly has been looking for an excuse to junk that line for years. So they suddenly pulled all of the PCC II cars out of service because they were "falling apart" and dangerous. But who let them "fall apart"? SEPTA promises to rebuild the cars for further service. So far, in three years, only one or two of the cars has had a half-assed rebuild. SEPTA hopes the public forgets about them until they're "too old" to rebuild anymore. They're not kidding anybody.
@@Jeff-uj8xiFurther update - under its new CEO SEPTA is somewhat less bus-centric. They've restored more PCCs for Girard Ave. and will be acquiring new articulated low-floors for the 5 city and 2 suburban lines that are currently served by Kawasakis.
Great video, had no idea that Chicago had such a large street and cable car system. I must assume that you could not find any pictures of the Chicago cable car powerhouses as I noticed that the picture shown twice is of the San Fransico cable car powerhouse, where I noticed the California and Powell Street names painted on the top beam bar over the engines.
Another very interesting story 👍🏼
I didn’t read through all the comments, but I am willing to bet someone pointed out Chicago’s first purchase of PCC streetcars occurred during the late 1930s. These blue cars were initially used on Madison Street and were nicknamed “Blue Geese.” The Illinois Railway Museum has the only survivor. And in case it wasn’t mentioned, Chicago also had a huge network of electric trolley buses, the last of which were retired in 1973. If not mistaken, I believe Illinois Railway Museum at least six from Chicago.
Yes, Blue Goose 4021 is on static display at IRM and sporting its original paint scheme. Whether or not it will ever be restored to operating condition is not known.
IRM recently purchased some surplus spare parts from the City of El Paso. Since the 1930s ex-San Diego cars El Paso is operating were mechanically and electrically updated by Brookville and any additional El Paso cars that may be returned to service will receive the same updates, perhaps some of those purchased items will be used to restore 4021 to operating condition.
@@kennethjosephson134 I was told that 4021 has extensive corrosion from being stored next to salt piles before CTA donated its private collection to IRM.
I heard that as well.
I Love Streetcars & Trolleys!
I remember remnants of the tracks in my youth growing up in Chicago from the early 1970s to when we moved to L.A. in 1979 (I was born in Chicago in '69). I remember seeing bits of track off Clark St. in the Roger's Park area. As a kid, for several years, we went to a family camp at Army Lake in Wisconsin, and they had (I believe still have) some of the old cars running on the tracks that pass just outside the camp on some nostalgic railroad (Kenosha was mentioned so I believe that is part of it). Besides fishing and other things the camp offered a young boy, I recall waiting for hours for the various trains to pass by which I did not realize some of which were old Chicago street cars. My dad took me on the train a few different years we visited, but I have no recollection what kind of train we took because I believe they used different kinds of historic passenger trains on that line. Might still run old trains on the line?
There is a surviving Chicago PCC green hornet at the Illinois railway Museum
I'd love to see that with my own eyes.
The street cars in Chicago were initially replace by electric trolly busses. Then GM did a deal with the city to convert to diesel busses. Only one of the actual "Green Hornet" street cars remains in existence. It is at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union IL. The rest were cannibalized in the construction of CTA rapid transit cars. Now thats a fascinating history. Chicago's El system used to be much more extensive than it currently is.
GM teamed up with (IIRC) Firestone and a couple of tire companies to form a false-front operation called National City Lines. They promised to "improve" public transit via centralized management, procurement, etc. But instead they ripped up tracks and replaced trolleys* with buses in cities all over the US. When the scheme was uncovered all they got was a wrist-slap. 😡
(*) rather than "trolly". Hope that helps!
Very informative - thank you. I am surprised however that you omitted the final transition of the street car to busses: what I recall as the electric “trolley bus”, powered by overhead wires just like the electric streetcars, but ran on rubber tires on pavement with the rest of the traffic, instead of rails. These were in their waning years in the 1960s and disappeared by the ‘70s as I recall. I remember seeing them as a child whenever we went into the city. Perhaps you don’t consider them part of the streetcar story since they didn’t run on rails. But my parents regarded them as streetcars, with a captive path due to the overhead wires.
I left a comment above about those buses running on overhead electricity. As a kid in the 50's and early 60's we'd take the train into the city and I clearly recall seeing those buses. Wondered if anyone else remembered and then read your comment. I have great memories of Chicago, thanks to my granny taking us kids there for lunch and a movie frequently.
Well done video. Enjoyed it. Were all of the images used of Chicago’s Cable cars and streetcars or were some from other cities used as filler. Had two great grandfathers who worked the streetcars and a grand aunt who worked in CTA’s payroll department while I was in CTA’s Strategic Planning Department for 18 years.
Some of the tracks were removed by the city when they put median planters on many major streets such as Western Avenue.
In the late 80’s or early 90’s a group of about 20-30 Transit Professionals organized by Dan Joseph chartered two TTC streetcars and rode Toronto’s Streetcar network at night. We picked the night of the fall time change and got an extra hour of charter time as a result. We started with the current model operating on the system and then half way through the night got a tour of their yards then took out a historical model.
Have to say how friendly and gracious all the TTC employees were who we met on the trip and what a nice visit it was. This was a photo charter so we got to stop at various spots for photos and enjoyed the unique aspect of this kind of charter when we made a pit stop at a Dublin Doughnuts by just stopping the streetcar in the middle of the street and going in for a bathroom/food break. Not something possible during regular service hours. What a wonderful experience it was!
Thank you so much for the insightful comment. This is really interesting! Some of the images are Illustrative examples because we can't always find public domain media for the topics we cover.
There’s a track on a bridge that I see all the time going west on North Ave near the outdoor shopping malls but I’m not sure what it was used for. Thanks for another great video
Not Chicago, not even the US but the old tram lines remained buried under the road surface in the city of Bath in the UK until the early 2000's - even though they were withdrawn in 1939 !
There were some major resurfacing works in Wellsway around 2005 and the rails were removed then - some 70 years after the last tram ran on them !!
Grew up in the Bronx, and as a kid I saw several spots where the asphalt had worn through, exposing the cities past trolley system. Always fascinated me.
How can you say the tracks reappear in the most unexpected places? :)
Thanks for making videos like this!
I cannot remember when this happened, but I recall at some time in the 1970s traveling in a PCC car on a subway line near Loyola University. I recall that is was a PCC car mainly because we had them in Kansas City in the 1940s and 1950s. The last line that stopped running was the Country Club line near my childhood home in the Country Club Plaza neighborhood. It was shut down in 1956 when I was a wee boy of 6 years.
Today, we have a light rail line that runs on Main street from the River Market neighborhood by the Missouri River to Union Station. It will be extended in 2023 to the south on Main to the University Of Missouri Kansas City campus near the northern terminus of the original Country Club line - which is now a walking trail that runs south to 85th street...
There is a repurposed single-ended Kansas City Public Service PCC car that spent many years in Mexico before returning to Kansas City. Before the new Light Rail system was put into service it was on display outdoors at Union Station's Science City. Now it is a coffee shop at the corner of 6th and Delaware in River Market next to the Light Rail line.
Many of the steel overhead power wire poles still exist along the streets in older Kansas City neighborhoods if you know what to look for.
Kenosha Wisconsin and the F-line on the San Francisco Municipal Railway (the "MUNI" has cars in Chicago and Kansas City livery!) are the best places to experience the PCC street car.
I grew up in a suburb of Chicago in the 50's and early 60's. I think I remember buses that ran connected to overhead electricity in Chicago. We'd take the Chicago and Northwestern train into the city and go to lunch at an automat or cafeteria and then to a movie. Do you recall anything about those buses that ran on overhead electricity??? I'd really like to know. Thanks!
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On the Rock Island line, you can see tracks behind the Illinois Institute of Technology. Tracks are also located, on the site of the Stock Yards.
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The advantage of the PCC was that it was a standardized design. Street railways grew in different ways, and every line had its own needs and criterea for rollingstock, and preferred manufacturer. Manufacturers did have standard designs, but on the whole most city railways had their own unique cars. The goal of the PCC car was to create a streetcar that would be adopted universally throughout the country. It would both bring the streetcar into the modern era with its sleek, art deco design, and bring about a new standard in streetcar design. The PCC car ended up only being built by two American builders of streetcars and rapid transit cars, but the design was intended to be licensed out to various car manufacturers to make it a universal design.
Two companies in the US manufactured PCCs. The St. Lous Car Company, and Pullman Standard. Of these, the former produced the vast majority. PCCs could be customized for a particular city's needs, but the basic design and technology was standardized, which among other things made it easier to maintain a fleet of PCC cars. They came in different lengths, some had standee windows, some did not. A unique fleet of 50 cars in Boston had 'picture windows', double the width of a normal PCC car's window. There were single-ended PCCs, and there were double-enders. Some had air brakes and pneumatic door engines, some were entirely electric. Some cars were single units, some could be coupled and operated in Multiple Unit trains. Most cars only had two sets of doors on the righthand side, but all except one car in Boston had a set of doors on the lefthand side. PCCs in Mexico City had two sets of half-width doors on the lefthand side. In Washington DC, the cars were equipped to run via conduit power.
The PCC may not have been able to save the street railway from its decline, but it definitely had an impact on street railways in their waning years. And in some cases, like with Toronto and Boston, PCCs far outlasted most others. In fact, Boston's PCCs were still faithfully serving the Green Line (the remains of Boston's once vast surface, subway, and elevated streetcar network) until around 1986 when Japanese light rail vehicles finally replaced them. A small fleet of cars continue to serve the Ashmont-Mattapan high speed line but these cars have been heavily rebuilt again and again over the years. Of course, now San Francisco has a lovely curated fleet of PCC cars decorated in heritage colors of different street railways across North America. And Philadelphia of course had completely gutted and rebuilt PCCs in service on one of their routes until 2020.
PCCs were a very important chapter in the history of the North American street railway. Their legacy continues to live on, even though only a fraction of the cars continue to see service. That any of them are still plying city tracks in revenue service is pretty remarkable.
Excellent summary! FWIW, Philly has been rehabbing its PCC fleet for the Girard Avenue heritage service.
Thanks to GM and the infamous NCL Scandal. Ironically today GM is now only manufacturing electric vehicles (eVs)! If you can still find it watch, 'Taken For A Ride' docu that came out several years ago. I think it is here on YT. Has the whole story of NCL in Philadelphia, Los Angeles, and some other places in America as well.
th-cam.com/video/p-I8GDklsN4/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for this video, it was really interesting. I haven’t seen, but could you do a video on Chicago’s electric buses? I remember them when I was a kid in Chicago and would like to learn more about them.
Thanks for all the cool and interesting history topics!
Great suggestion!
And now all these future forward politicians want to bring it back ... should have never left
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Those are cable cars btw, not streetcars. Note the lack of overhead wire.
Very cool
The first sign that your PCC was approaching from around the curve was the hiss of the overhead wire as the wheel at the top of the trolley pole skimmed along it.
Kenosha's cars are retired Toronto PCC cars on surplus CTA wheel sets as the Toronto system was a different gage.
Supposedly there was initially a plan to fit the surplused Green Hornets with air horns and other accessories required for high speed interurban service after the sudden shut down of the Chicago Aurora & Elgin when the CTA was briefly considering taking over service.
There used to be a lot of visible tracks and a little bit of old cobblestone streets remaining in Washington D.C. in Georgetown in the late 1960s-early 70s. Georgetown became very touristy and they paved everything over a few years later.
I bet more is still under the streets than we all think. I grew up in the burbs and have been driving trucks since the 80's and seen more than i can remember. we dug up a bunch of the chicago fire landfill and i have a few old door knobs an old Railroad lock and stuff from way back then.
There was an episode of the radio show 'The Green Hornet' where it spoiled the villain's plan for TGH to take credit for the failure of the streetcar system.
I remember riding a street car, in St.Louis, when I was very small. It was an exciting ride, even more than the bus was years later.
Sadly, the rails appear to have been removed or paved over at all the listed locations where they were still visible, except for the CTA Lawndale facility.
In the time I spent traveling in the city, the spaces under most viaducts were left as were and all tracks were visible and intact. This being the 1960s for sure. The city did not pave tracks over because doing so would shorten the height clearance for the viaduct. In steering an auto wheel directly on top of the rail head, the car could shimmy slightly left and right (If the road was wet) giving you the illusion of hitting a patch of ice!! The paving blocks surrounding the tracks caused a rumble effect. An experience many drivers would remember then---I do.
Wow, this is an interesting insight - I wish we had found that during our research.
To this day as I enter Belleville, New Jersey from Newark on Washington Ave from Broadway it feels like a rumble strip for about 500 feet because they never removed the street car rails, I learned this back in the 1960’s as a very young child !!
Of course I don’t remember trolleys in Chicago, but I do remember electric buses and the drivers getting out once in a while to put the power pole back on overhead electric line. Light rail works in some European cities. Would it here in America?
Can you do a story about the electric trolley busses in Chicago? I remember them on Pulaski into the early 1970s.
Better yet if you can make it for the annual Chicago day at the Illinois Railway museum they run at least some of the old Chicago streetcars, trolley buses and interurban cars.
I did extensive filming of the Chicago trolley coach system in the early 1970's, before it was foolishly junked and replaced with diesel buses. I have a huge amount of Chicago trolley coach memorabilia in my collection.
Here in Seattle they just recently pulled up some cross ties on Madison street, from old street car line!
Outside the US, tramways (streetcars) are still alive and well, and so are trolleybuses...
On an historical note the Yellow Streetcars in Shaker Heights, Ohio were sold to Toronto, Ontario at some point in their history.
Sorrry Cal Bob, Toronto never got any cars from Shaker Heights. It was the other way around. Shaker got some used PCC cars from Toronto. San Francisco and Philly got used PCC cars from Toronto too.
@@Jeff-uj8xi Philly got its TTC cars to replace a large number that were lost in a carbarn fire. Unfortunately they never acquired enough to do a full restoration. That loss in combination with a lingering mindset from the NCL days led to multiple lines being abandoned, leaving only 5 still operating.
Kenosha does not have an old Chicago street car. We have one painted like a Green Hornet but all of our streetcars are from Canada.
I think Toronto Canada got most or all its PCC cars used, from US cities. Decades later some of them ended up in Barcelona, Spain. Those PCC cars lasted for incredible lengths of time. Toronto kept a couple that they bring out on special occasions.
I remember seeing some tracks under the bridge on Western by 18th st. before they paved over all of the potholes they had under there.
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9:15 Cable Car Barn in San Francisco
13:19 Not only in America.. we still have these running in Belgium.. but they are slowly being replaced with modern ones.
There's lots of Chicago streetcars still in existence, especially at the Illinois Railway Musuem. IRM has horsecars, cable cars, and other streetcars from Chicago, many of which from the Chicago City Railways, Chicago Surface Lines, and CTA. If you really want to see Chucago trolleys, go to the Illinois Railway Musuem.
Can you do a similar video for Indianapolis' streetcar system? It was massive compared to the citys size
Hello Ryan from Kult America :)
Besides the operating Green Hornets and electric buses at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, IL there are operating street car examples at the Fox River Trolley Museum in South Elgin, IL. A little further north in East Troy, WI is the East Troy Electric Railroad Museum. They operate from down town East Troy to Spirit Lake in Mukwonago (9 miles). Again, they operate examples of street cars and interurbans. Car rosters appear on their respective web sites.
Look how well dressed people were back then.All class.
And they're still cheaper and more environmentally friendly but we keep using buses in a majority of cities
I still rermember the sparks that flew when they moved from one electric line to another. At the end of their run the operator hauled down the pole at one end of the bus and switched to one at the other end.
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I believe you will find some exposed tracks on N Ogden ave under a train bridge not too far from the Ogden exit off of the southbound Kennedy Expy.