So Bioware just kicked me in the nutsack with the last Patch (1.06) Unfortunately the entire retesting needs to be done because there were significant changes in the last patch). Also, today's video upload (regarding sniper rifles) will be canceled and remade.
As some people are saying, reload speed is important, as many people wouldn't go with a bio-converter. Weapon weight would matte, ammo capacity would matter (e.g. what % of your ammo capacity are you burning through to drop that guy). You also do a single test of each (they will vary in how many headshots you're getting, how many shots you're missing if the weapon has a large spread and you're stopping to dodge/get hit sometimes) which could make over a second difference easy (shifting a weapon's position in the ranks a fair bit). Still, this is a useful guide (especially as we can eliminate some such as the Predator will almost never be a good choice), but it needs a massive caveat that a weapon that gets a score like 12 seconds may actually be a better fit for you than a weapon that gets a score of 9-10 seconds because you're using it at a different range, for different tactics or against different targets (humanoids vs large creatures). For instance, what you'll want in a weapon will be VERY different depending on if you're using it in cover at medium range vs using it to charge/flank enemies at point blank range (where it will be much harder to reliably get headshots unless you are an expert marksman).
Just a bit of info from my experience (1.05 version): Ushior with 1 single mod for additional clip size receives two bullets instead of one without turbocharge. Also if you have a lot of armor, damage done by bio-converter reduces very noticeable (i.e with 100 armor easily reachable by different ways, bioconverter eats ~3% instead of 5%, but without any armor it eats 6.5%). Also Ushior is very reliable for headshots in mid-range.. so if somebody wants free aim training Ushior is a very rewarding selection.
the equalizer probably did so badly because the game is set up so rapid fire weapons are better against shields, and slowfiring are better against armor. A good way to test the rapid fire weapons would be by seeing how fast you can take down the shields on Destroyers
You're surprised that fast automatic weapons do poorly against armored targets and the Ushior is so good, when it is a single big source of damage, against an armored target? Do you understand how armor works? Because this betrays, again, how your testing methods are... suspect at best. These aren't the "best" weapons. Instead these are the best weapons, at a research rank of 7, on insanity, against armored opponents, using a very specific set of skills, with a very specific set of armor, and without using any mods that might change the weapon behaviors. Seriously, try the Equalizer+Electrical Conduits against shields/remnant and you'll find a different outcome of what exactly is "best."
It's not a factor, he put the bio-converter augment in all of the guns. It most affected the Rozerad, though, because even with the bio-converter augment, it still reset its spool-up with every clip empty.
And to add to Patrick's point, anyone building a weapon is likely going to use a bio-converter to up the dps, which is what this video series is focusing on, straight weapon damage. If you want another mod, it is likely your weapon is a secondary factor. (Biotics, Combos, Snipers for initial dmg not dps, etc.)
Reload time doesn't matter much in practice though because typically while reloading you'll be using powers, switching targets, changing cover etc. anyway. So the raw dps is the most useful.
I held my own in my first multiplayer gold match with the human soldier and a Charger X. It's all about exploiting the use of turbocharge with emphasis on accuracy/stability and fire rate to be able to fight at longer ranges and get more headshots in.I can imagine any of the other smg style pistols being far better than the charger once I get them. Tip for anyone playing SP: NG+ insanity. I'm currently at lvl 120 and it's got to the point that enemies are such bullet sponges that only the most powerful guns and optimal builds are doing a significant amount of damage. I'm currently using Dhan X, Black Widow X and Hurricane X and the Hurricane on a Soldier build is really subpar at this point.
Interesting results but completely useless for multiplayer. A strait up dps comparison without mods and powers would be a lot more useful in general. Without reload times factored in the results are completely skewed. Yes the Dhan or Ushior will out dps any other weapon if there is no reload time... but how do they compair when you can't use a bio-converter and marksman or whatever they call it in this game now?
something to note- some of these are way better on specific setups.. such as equilizer electric and using a ammo mod.. high fire rate primes super fast. cryo/fire/shock... and can spam combos.. also electric tracks and infinite ammo.. ideal biotic / tech gun
The point is to up the weapon damage as much as possible to show approximately the best that the weapon alone can output. With reloads and slower rates of fire you start inviting other factors to influence the outcome, like companion damage, evasions, etc.
No Id I assumed the point was to cut down on video time. If the point was to show what the weapon could do alone then it doesn't make sense to remove its basic stats from the equation and add the effects of mods and powers to it. By definition, this isn't testing what they can do alone.
Actually it does, because someone interested in seeing the damage output of a generally crafted weapon shows you what the weapon can do, no need for second guessing by reading stats. If a person really wanted to rely on their weapon damage output they would build a weapon with mods that would focus on faster/higher damage. Combine the info in this video with his augments and mods videos and you can create some really nasty pieces. But this is besides the point as I guess I am arguing my own testing philosophy instead of the creator's since he confirmed your assumption.
Hey I was wondering where you managed to get all of the bio-converters for all these weapons. Throughout my play-through I only managed to get the one from researching the bio-converter mod. I didn't have any others drop for me at all. Is this a bug or was I just very unlucky? Is there a vendor that you can buy them from that I just never found?
Most of it came before patch 1.05 when you could save-scum and buy multiple of the same augmentations from the same vendor. After that, I farmed. This is the savegame in which I "cheated" in order to be able to test things. I have like 15 bio-converters and about 50 kinetic coils lol.
The way Armor works turbocharge and the bio converter shouldn't be an advantage at all on that matter since every other shot needs to have more force and damage output to do the same amount of damage against armor in a short time. It's a bit disappointing that is not the case. Armor usually gets hardening when i hit it in quick succession, meaning the resistance should go up with every hit unless i pause for a moment(reload). Assault rifles ,SMGs and even the Piranha Shotgun should be really inefficient against armor because of that. Slow rate of fire should do way more damage. Like the Ushior AND it's reload time in this case. The Eagle, Hornet, Hurricane and Equalizer should do as bad as the Charger against armor. Its exactly the other way around with shields. These mechanics are almost gone in this game. This was important once to avoid having "the best gun" in the game. Every gun should be useful at some point. It's a pity.
Having used all the pistols in the game, my favorite is the Sidewinder. Adequate damage, fast reload, lots of ammo, and very, very accurate with a scope. Has a lot of range also with that scope. The Ushior or however you spill that, yes has very high damage but what a pain to use!! It has only two shots with the pistol tree maxed out, and some mod that increases clip size and its reload speed is so slow along with its fire rate is sooooooooooo.......sooooooooooooo slow if you face off with such as a Destroyer you will die before you can even fire a second time. There you stand and the gun will not fire......Lol!! The Talon is a better choice as its fire rate and reload is adequate for up close combat. But for a pistol to simply enjoy using the Sidewinder is the best of the best and hey if you run into a Destroyer such as in the Remnant Tiller.......pull out your Piranha Shotgun with seeking plasma, and simply destroy the Destroyer. Ha! But hey ordinary enemies, Kett, raiders, etc, the Sidewinder is lots of fun and also very accurate if you put a scope on it. Add penetration damage, a higher damage barrel, larger capacity clip, put a couple other mods on it and combined with its fire rate it is great overall. I tried that Ushior on Liams loyalty mission and you meet two of those metal suits, I swear I got so disgusted with that pistol. It simply would not fire fast enough to be useful. So I switched to my trusty shotgun and it was a simple matter to eat them for lunch. I should not have left my Sidewinder at home...................Peebee uses one and she is deadly with it. I watched her on normal difficulty kill the Destroyer in the Remnant Tiller with her pistol, I was saving Cora and all of a sudden saw the Destroyer blow up....way to go Peebee. She put a hurting on that thing with that pistol. Yea boy, that Ushior is high damage, but basically useless, its fire rate and reload speed is simply awful........and in real combat totally useless. The Talon up close and personal does have its place if you like to play that way and is much better than the Ushior. Peebee and I will hide behind cover and wear them out with the Sidewinder. Cheers!!
I'll probably do that as well, though I might have to change the enemy I test it on, since the Eiroch likes grabbing and smashing enemies if they get too close.
highest dps is going to be the Biotic Amp, as it has the highest firerate. DPH is A-Sword Rem-tech Fist is a bit meh, if you hit an non armoured/shield enemy it dies next attack. However is mega slow attack rate. tech tool is average. Never used the kett/angara stuff
So Bioware just kicked me in the nutsack with the last Patch (1.06) Unfortunately the entire retesting needs to be done because there were significant changes in the last patch).
Also, today's video upload (regarding sniper rifles) will be canceled and remade.
As some people are saying, reload speed is important, as many people wouldn't go with a bio-converter. Weapon weight would matte, ammo capacity would matter (e.g. what % of your ammo capacity are you burning through to drop that guy). You also do a single test of each (they will vary in how many headshots you're getting, how many shots you're missing if the weapon has a large spread and you're stopping to dodge/get hit sometimes) which could make over a second difference easy (shifting a weapon's position in the ranks a fair bit).
Still, this is a useful guide (especially as we can eliminate some such as the Predator will almost never be a good choice), but it needs a massive caveat that a weapon that gets a score like 12 seconds may actually be a better fit for you than a weapon that gets a score of 9-10 seconds because you're using it at a different range, for different tactics or against different targets (humanoids vs large creatures). For instance, what you'll want in a weapon will be VERY different depending on if you're using it in cover at medium range vs using it to charge/flank enemies at point blank range (where it will be much harder to reliably get headshots unless you are an expert marksman).
Just a bit of info from my experience (1.05 version):
Ushior with 1 single mod for additional clip size receives two bullets instead of one without turbocharge. Also if you have a lot of armor, damage done by bio-converter reduces very noticeable (i.e with 100 armor easily reachable by different ways, bioconverter eats ~3% instead of 5%, but without any armor it eats 6.5%). Also Ushior is very reliable for headshots in mid-range.. so if somebody wants free aim training Ushior is a very rewarding selection.
Another cool video! Gz dude! ^_^
+Rognarr Atheo thx dude.
Really surprised by the Sidewinder. Didn't expect it to pull ahead of the Carnifex.
the equalizer probably did so badly because the game is set up so rapid fire weapons are better against shields, and slowfiring are better against armor. A good way to test the rapid fire weapons would be by seeing how fast you can take down the shields on Destroyers
You're surprised that fast automatic weapons do poorly against armored targets and the Ushior is so good, when it is a single big source of damage, against an armored target?
Do you understand how armor works? Because this betrays, again, how your testing methods are... suspect at best.
These aren't the "best" weapons. Instead these are the best weapons, at a research rank of 7, on insanity, against armored opponents, using a very specific set of skills, with a very specific set of armor, and without using any mods that might change the weapon behaviors.
Seriously, try the Equalizer+Electrical Conduits against shields/remnant and you'll find a different outcome of what exactly is "best."
Good video. It's nice to know juist how they stack up with each other.
U didint add reload time, that will change everything.
It's not a factor, he put the bio-converter augment in all of the guns. It most affected the Rozerad, though, because even with the bio-converter augment, it still reset its spool-up with every clip empty.
And to add to Patrick's point, anyone building a weapon is likely going to use a bio-converter to up the dps, which is what this video series is focusing on, straight weapon damage. If you want another mod, it is likely your weapon is a secondary factor. (Biotics, Combos, Snipers for initial dmg not dps, etc.)
Reload time doesn't matter much in practice though because typically while reloading you'll be using powers, switching targets, changing cover etc. anyway. So the raw dps is the most useful.
I held my own in my first multiplayer gold match with the human soldier and a Charger X. It's all about exploiting the use of turbocharge with emphasis on accuracy/stability and fire rate to be able to fight at longer ranges and get more headshots in.I can imagine any of the other smg style pistols being far better than the charger once I get them.
Tip for anyone playing SP: NG+ insanity. I'm currently at lvl 120 and it's got to the point that enemies are such bullet sponges that only the most powerful guns and optimal builds are doing a significant amount of damage. I'm currently using Dhan X, Black Widow X and Hurricane X and the Hurricane on a Soldier build is really subpar at this point.
Interesting results but completely useless for multiplayer. A strait up dps comparison without mods and powers would be a lot more useful in general. Without reload times factored in the results are completely skewed. Yes the Dhan or Ushior will out dps any other weapon if there is no reload time... but how do they compair when you can't use a bio-converter and marksman or whatever they call it in this game now?
something to note- some of these are way better on specific setups.. such as equilizer electric and using a ammo mod.. high fire rate primes super fast. cryo/fire/shock... and can spam combos.. also electric tracks and infinite ammo.. ideal biotic / tech gun
Why do you keep using turbocharge and converters? Is it to reduce the length of the videos?
Yep. The videos are already a bit too long for this type of content.
The point is to up the weapon damage as much as possible to show approximately the best that the weapon alone can output. With reloads and slower rates of fire you start inviting other factors to influence the outcome, like companion damage, evasions, etc.
No Id I assumed the point was to cut down on video time.
If the point was to show what the weapon could do alone then it doesn't make sense to remove its basic stats from the equation and add the effects of mods and powers to it. By definition, this isn't testing what they can do alone.
Actually it does, because someone interested in seeing the damage output of a generally crafted weapon shows you what the weapon can do, no need for second guessing by reading stats. If a person really wanted to rely on their weapon damage output they would build a weapon with mods that would focus on faster/higher damage. Combine the info in this video with his augments and mods videos and you can create some really nasty pieces.
But this is besides the point as I guess I am arguing my own testing philosophy instead of the creator's since he confirmed your assumption.
Hey I was wondering where you managed to get all of the bio-converters for all these weapons. Throughout my play-through I only managed to get the one from researching the bio-converter mod. I didn't have any others drop for me at all. Is this a bug or was I just very unlucky? Is there a vendor that you can buy them from that I just never found?
Most of it came before patch 1.05 when you could save-scum and buy multiple of the same augmentations from the same vendor. After that, I farmed.
This is the savegame in which I "cheated" in order to be able to test things. I have like 15 bio-converters and about 50 kinetic coils lol.
Isn't human error a factor in the time to kill?
Asian Assassin It is but he didn't miss too much
The way Armor works turbocharge and the bio converter shouldn't be an advantage at all on that matter since every other shot needs to have more force and damage output to do the same amount of damage against armor in a short time. It's a bit disappointing that is not the case. Armor usually gets hardening when i hit it in quick succession, meaning the resistance should go up with every hit unless i pause for a moment(reload). Assault rifles ,SMGs and even the Piranha Shotgun should be really inefficient against armor because of that. Slow rate of fire should do way more damage. Like the Ushior AND it's reload time in this case. The Eagle, Hornet, Hurricane and Equalizer should do as bad as the Charger against armor.
Its exactly the other way around with shields. These mechanics are almost gone in this game. This was important once to avoid having "the best gun" in the game. Every gun should be useful at some point. It's a pity.
Having used all the pistols in the game, my favorite is the Sidewinder. Adequate damage, fast reload, lots of ammo, and very, very accurate with a scope. Has a lot of range also with that scope.
The Ushior or however you spill that, yes has very high damage but what a pain to use!! It has only two shots with the pistol tree maxed out, and some mod that increases clip size and its reload speed is so slow along with its fire rate is sooooooooooo.......sooooooooooooo slow if you face off with such as a Destroyer you will die before you can even fire a second time. There you stand and the gun will not fire......Lol!! The Talon is a better choice as its fire rate and reload is adequate for up close combat.
But for a pistol to simply enjoy using the Sidewinder is the best of the best and hey if you run into a Destroyer such as in the Remnant Tiller.......pull out your Piranha Shotgun with seeking plasma, and simply destroy the Destroyer. Ha!
But hey ordinary enemies, Kett, raiders, etc, the Sidewinder is lots of fun and also very accurate if you put a scope on it. Add penetration damage, a higher damage barrel, larger capacity clip, put a couple other mods on it and combined with its fire rate it is great overall.
I tried that Ushior on Liams loyalty mission and you meet two of those metal suits, I swear I got so disgusted with that pistol. It simply would not fire fast enough to be useful. So I switched to my trusty shotgun and it was a simple matter to eat them for lunch. I should not have left my Sidewinder at home...................Peebee uses one and she is deadly with it. I watched her on normal difficulty kill the Destroyer in the Remnant Tiller with her pistol, I was saving Cora and all of a sudden saw the Destroyer blow up....way to go Peebee. She put a hurting on that thing with that pistol.
Yea boy, that Ushior is high damage, but basically useless, its fire rate and reload speed is simply awful........and in real combat totally useless. The Talon up close and personal does have its place if you like to play that way and is much better than the Ushior.
Peebee and I will hide behind cover and wear them out with the Sidewinder.
Cheers!!
Snipers?
They are comming. Next video will be on snipers. I wanted to end the series with a bang
What about melee?
I'll probably do that as well, though I might have to change the enemy I test it on, since the Eiroch likes grabbing and smashing enemies if they get too close.
highest dps is going to be the Biotic Amp, as it has the highest firerate.
DPH is A-Sword
Rem-tech Fist is a bit meh, if you hit an non armoured/shield enemy it dies next attack. However is mega slow attack rate.
tech tool is average.
Never used the kett/angara stuff