Roman Catholic Womenpriests: Celebration of litugy in honor of Mary's Assumption on Aug. 15, 2009
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ย. 2009
- Mary, Mother of Jesus Catholic Community gathered in Falls Church to celebrate the feast of Mary's Assumption. In this clip, you will see Peg Bowen and Donna Mogan set the banquet table for our Eucharistic feast. Roman Catholic Womenbishops: Andrea Johnson from the Eastern region joins Bridget Mary Meehan, from Southern region as co-presiders in this joyous community celebration on Aug. 15, 2009 in Falls Church, VA.
www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org
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When I was a boy of 7, I made my own hosts and played "mass" but I never believed I had received the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
what did you smoke when you was 7?
You are not Roman Catholic priest. There are no female priests in the Catholic church nor will there ever be. Why don't you all get some guts and start your own church in which you can be priests of whatever you decide to call your faith?
No, we don't want that. We want them to convert and realize the error of their ways and come back into full communion.
Now that you've played Mass in your yard now time to hit the confessional and go to a real one...
GREAT COMMENT!!!!
LOL
Invalid, invalid and invalid. Scandalous!
This is utter blasphemy against the immaculate Mother of God! You need to repent of your arrogance for the safety of your eternal soul.
Sadly, this is why abuses abound in so many Churches, Christian, Judaism, Islam and etc. Because the damnation of hellfire is used to make people believe things that can not possibly have been true.
@@coolwater55 Things like the belief that women can be ordained?
@@cllewis1 Of course women can be ordained, they were ordained or Priestesses long before the Jewish tradition took hold. It is only men who say women cannot be ordained.
@@coolwater55 Actually, a woman cannot be ordained a priest because the matter required for the validity of the sacrament is a baptized male, if you do not believe this fundamental truth of the Holy Mother Church then everything else goes out the window too because it is through priests that the Church makes herself truly present in the world.
@@coolwater55 men in general, Jesus specifically.
Our father and mother who art in heaven? Good grief.
Who is the OUR named in Genesis 1. Male and female made in OUR image.
@@coolwater55 no. Male and female made in the image of God.
Didn't you hear? That's how Jesus taught us to pray! 🤦
@@coolwater55 The Trinity- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That was triggering, I know.
@@cllewis1 Read genesis again, it refers to male and female being created in OUR image, that can only mean God is male and female, or God is plurality.
Today on good Friday, let us pray the Christ crucified will have mercy on these poor sinners.
Sorry to have been away so long. We are gathering for a memorial this weekend, and I have a short reprieve now that alll preparations are done and just waiting for family from out of town to arrive this afternoon.
So, we continue.....And I must take time to read all your comments and try to respond, so please have patience if I come back and forth to this in the next week or so. Thanks.
may God gives you enlightment and leads you back to the true teaching and understanding of the Church...
u are making a mockkery of the holy mass
May God have mercy upon there soul's
Now, for the praying to the Saints. First off, we have to define prayer. Praying to God and praying to saints are two different kinds of prayer, but we use the same word in English for both. Prayer to God includes the worship that he is due. Prayer to saints includes the honor they are due, but never worship. the dictionary says that prayer is, among those to God, a petition. For example, in Old English, people would say "I pray you," or "Prithee," which is the shortened version of "I pray you."
They can't even get themselves decent vestments!!!
Holy cow! This is depressing to watch!
Canon Law 1379 provides that “both a person who attempts to confer a sacred order on a woman, and the woman who attempts to receive the sacred order, incur a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See,” and that the one who attempts to ordain a woman “may be punished by dismissal from the clerical state.”
@coolwater55 I'm not sure where you got that the male priesthood shortage is severe - I know of a number of seminaries that are bursting at the seams not only in America but across Africa and South America as well. Bonus: they tend to be quite conservative.
You choose a poor example with the Episcopal Church which is literally imploding on itself at the moment. I'll leave it at that.
Still a pancake. Still Wine.
hahahahah wth this is witchcraft 😂😂😂
I appologize, the wording is confusing here. I meant to say that I wouldn't say that that passage goes against the New Testament. :)
We have excommunication rules because there have been, in the past, members of the Church that have actively and knowingly taught anti-Catholic dogmas and beliefs, and when asked to stop they have refused. And the Catholic Church is making sure that each priest is guilty, first.
OMG this is a great SIN!!!!
Wow, this is really sick. Thank you, Vatican II!
Joshua Speed thank u?
@@jackcraven8345 it's a sarcastic thanks. This is a result of Vatican II
@@isaac07517 I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the Second Vatican Council, but on the bad implementation of it. The council itself stated that Latin should remain in the mass and that chant should still be used, but those who were poorly catechized went ahead and thought they could be ordained 🤡
Phoebe was a minister - the Roman Catholic Bible says so.
The women named and greeted with specific roles (Rom 16) are Phoebe,
Prisca, Junia, Persis, Mary, Tryphaena and Tryphosa, Rufus’ mother, Nereus’ sister
and Julia. The leadership of women in the church is placed within the structures of
mutuality in the book of Romans.
Which means these were early church leaders with the same mutual relationship to the early church as the MEN present.
"No one can say, "Jesus is Lord", except by the Holy Spirit." Come on, Bridget - try, one time, to say it.
Here's what my little note says: "Ministers: the Greek term diakonoi is used frewuently in the New Testament to designate "servants," "Attendants," or "ministers." Paul refers to himself and to other apostles as "ministers of God" (2 Cor 6, 4) or "Ministers of Christ," (2 Cor 11, 23). In the Pastorals (1 Tm 3, 8.12) the diakonos has become an established ofical in the local church; hence the term is there translated as "deacon."
Tell me where the Many seminarians are? How many and where, please.
I'm sorry may i have some hummus with that peta? Also did that wine come from costco? Great deal. Love this heretical party! :)
does it make sense, though, at least the connection of Mary to the old testament ark of the covenant, since we know that Jesus is the new covenant? St. Justin also supported the idea that Mary was the immaculate conception in his "Dialouge with trypho." written arund 155 AD. It's hard to have this dialogue because there's so little room on youtube to post. :)
What are the claims the Divinci code makes about the Catholic Church? I'm curious. :)
I will check the book out for myself. Also, what are the claims Margaret Starbird makes about the Catholic Church? I recall this conversation started something like that. . . :)
Where are the young families?
2. I am not familiar with Mary Magdalene's writings. . . what are they called? are they under a publisher that I could look into? I appologize for my inadequit knowledge: I have not heard of it. :) I know that Mary dissapears, but at the same time, so does Joseph. we have to remember that the gospels are the bare skeleton of what happened.
Often a mass that is celebrated with female priests is done so in a private or secluded time/area. There have been times where the celebration has been shut down...
could you please tell me the difference? is there true information in Dan Brown's book? I was told it was full of lots of false claims in the Catholic Church, but of course, you are right, I am making an assumption based off of what others have said who have read the book. I appologize for making such an assumption, but I do know that there is enough false info in the book for the Catholic Church to make a documentary to address them . . . it can't be insignificant.
Are you in a sanctioned Catholic Church or SSPX?
This dogma I use as example for a reason.
The bible actually does not claim a "real virgin birth", nor is it proved that Mary was conceived without sin. Note that the word "virgin" in Hebrew also meant "young woman". There is the matter of Jesus brothers and sisters (although the church claims it describes "cousins" even though the term brothers etc is used in the bible).
Can you give me an example of something that the Catholic Church states as Dogma but does not go along with what Christ taught in the New testiment?
what "Church" are you referring to? the Spanish inquisition?
@2958456739 Yes, it is invalid. I didn't really mean illicit, because an ordained priest (now excommunicated) 'ordained' these women into the 'priesthood', they have a little semblance of validity there, but if you would ask me, if there is a category worse than invalid, I will surely brand that category to these 'ordinations'.
Phoebe is referred to as a "diakonos", which some translate as a deacon, which I already said was ok. It is more precisely translated as "servant", though, which would mean she was in no way clergy whatsoever. So try again.
All this aside, to be clergy, one must have a valid ordination, and that must be performed by a valid bishop, who was himself ordained validly. without all this, the lineage of clergy from scriptural times is broken and whether male or female, their ordination is invalid.
also, online etymology dic. says Bishop is "from Greek. episkopos "watcher, overseer," a title for various government officials, later taken over in a Church sense" so perhaps the word "Bishop" isn't in the Bible because it was a government title, and was adopted after the Bible was written.
1. Just because junia is an apostle doesn't automatically make her a priest. yes only apostles could be priests, in the same way that nowadays only Catholics can be priests. you are assuming that she was named priest, when the Bible gives no indication that she was. what about the context and meaning of "apostle?" apostle just means messenger, according to the word's etymology. It's usually used to refer to the 12, but can also mean Christian.
So, I know a lot, and sorry if too long, but yt is extremely limiting when talking about such a deep subject.
I am very curious as to your belief system and what gets you up in the morning and not distressed about world events or to be able to manage your own life in ways that are positive and affirming.
I am genuinely curious how people manage without a faith life in something beyond earthly realm.
The analogy should go like this: the principal tells the student smoking will send him to hell and the student is excommunicated from school and society that abides by those strict protocols. The student still smokes. Does he go to hell? or are there other ideals or methods to draw the young person to healthy living or ways? or does the principal have that authority over the soul and life of the student?
Where is the grace in forging sacraments? Why don’t they become Anglican/Lutheran priestesses - they allow this do they not?
"'blessed is the fruit of your womb. and how does this happen tome, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment sound of your greting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.'" Now, we have to go back to the Old Testament for context. Samuel 2 chapter 6, we see a parallel of this encounter.
8. The gospel of Mary, might have been copied in 4th century or a bit later, but fragments of other gospels of Mary have been found dating around 150-200 a.d.
9. Gospels of Thomas, Phillip and Mary, Act of Peter etc are dated in the second century from copies, and the same as the other gospels were copied from earlier manuscripts.
The bible was not formed until 4th century. Which was managed from copies of copies of the orginal manuscripts.
A beautiful example of how women do not have to be priests but still contribute to the Church. also, Junia comes after Jesus hands off the keys. Perhaps Mary M. had quieter roles from then on. . . Women are still mentioned in the Bible afterwards, so it's not like the writers suddenly went, "Let's stop talking about women." And I think it's fair to say minister is different than priest. (out of curiosity, what is the Bible passage for Phoebe as a minister?)
Did you look up what I suggested?
Men were deacons, or ministers and the meaning is similar today.
A servant of the Church is as Paul refered to himself. In this case there are telling signs of Phoebes position.
She is named first in Rm 16. She is highly commended, and further, Paul specifically tells the others (church leaders both men and women gathered) to ASSIST her in the ministry.
Pauls "address" is not to lay people as evidenced by that whole passage.
These are known church leaders in that community.
But I don't see a lot of elaborate church setting here at all. And you did NOT really hear or see this whole service for what it really is.
As far as I (and others) are concerned, there could be 2 or 3 gathered there and with genuine belief calling on Jesus and Jesus said "I will be in your midst". Matt 18:20 says so.
That is from the Catholic US Bishops version of the bible.
Rm 16:7 "Greet Andronicus and Junia,* my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles and they were in Christ before me."
Second Vatican Council: “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from, nor adds anything to, the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.” (Lumen Gentium, n. 62.)
that's for the supposed gospel from St. Thomas. I assume that the others didn't make it into the Bible for similar reasons. the Catholic Church has a reason for everything. Check out What Catholic Answers has to say on those Gospels. :) or ask them yourself on their radio show. I'm sure they'd love to have that question.
I am sorry to not reply to this comment about Junia and Mary M.
1. You said Junia comes after Jesus hands off the keys? That makes no difference as to what her title is or her vocation as stated by Paul. She is outstanding amoung apostles, still makes her an apostle and the Catholic Church says only apostles were capable of carrying on the priesthood.
2. Mary M totally disappears, but they find a gospel account written by her - along with Phillip and Thomas' gospel.
And that change is permanent. (we don't see Abraham suddenly being called Abram again). Now, we ask, why is Mary being called "full of grace?" because it is revealed that Mary has already been prepared to be the ark of the covenant. how do we know this? well, when Mary goes to visit Elizabeth, Lk. 1:41-45 says "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, crid out in a loud voice and said 'Most blessed are you among women, and
Pauls first book, Rm, men and women were both leaders of the early church. The book of Acts both men and women receive the Holy Spirit to go out and share the gospel. So, why only 4 books on Jesus and a few writings from a few apostles?
John 21: 25 says
"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written."
But then what explains life after death, or experiences (that cannot possibly be imagined) by others?
What explains the distinction between myth and humanity honouring nature or God or the Universe with mysterious miracles or communication from beyond?
I just cannot believe that so many millions of peoples throughout the ages, did not commune with the afterlife in some way or form.
Yes, the church describes reliance on scripture and Jesus as living today via the power of the Holy Spirit for interpretation. But, the church is also founded on sacred scripture as its formal base. Article 3 Sacred Scripture in the CCC explains it all.
There is nothing of the "immaculate conception" mentioned until 8 or 9 generations later - Justin 155 AD? Yet, there were hundreds of manuscripts and writings to glean when choosing books (canons) of the bible long even before Paul.
What Biblical verses are you referencing that Jesus had brothers and sisters? Brother has many meanings, shown in: Genesis 13:8 and 14:12, Jesus told us to call one another "brothers" in Matthew 23:8. Look up "The Case for Mary’s Perpetual Virginity" by Tim Staples.
For Purgatory: First Corinthians 3:11-15. I cannot post the link, but look up Catholic answers, then search Purgatory, and look for Tim Staples. he ALWAYS uses Biblical references (he knows the Bible so well!)
On this we agree.
Why is it that the laywoman is saying the part of the celebrant? Not to mention why can you not say LORD?! Scripture in the Hebrew states Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH (Adonai) Elohim Tz'vaot... Barukh Habba B'shem YHVH (Adonai)... Which correctly translated is Holy, holy, holy Lord God of Hosts... Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord... which comes from Isaiah, and Psalm 118. Yeshua said that He will not come until my people say Blessed is He..., which is in reference to Yeshua!
So, if people don't learn the more than 2200 articles in the Catechism, or they disagree with some of them?, but agree with the majority of the teachings? What then? The church says we have to agree with all. But as people grow in understanding they question some things, and they should have that right. Does it change some things, perhaps not, but too restrictive as to what the lay people have a say in anyway. And not all people should do what they want or it would be chaos.
we ask this through Christ our brother ?!??
Well As far as Sacred Tradition goes in the Holy Catholic Church the priesthood stems from the Priestly Appointment of Aaron, the Levite tribe (Deuteronomy 18:2, Numbers 18:2-4,6) , and in the New New Testament the selection of the 12 Apostles, and the early organization of the Church that included bishops, Presbyters and Deacons ( All ordained by the impostion of Hands)( 1 Timothy 1:3, Acts 20:17, Acts 6:3) Since we are talking of the Catholic Priesthood any thing outside of this is not germane
Oh and you are the one who claimed the Church is the King of Kings, not me. So not sure what that other comment was about at all.
instead of greeting her by her name. and Names hold a special significance for the Jewish people.Names reveal something about the character of the named. For example, God reveals his name, Exodus 3:14, "I am who am." He's the alpha, omega, simply is. Abram's name (father) is changed to Abraham (father of the multitudes), because he was being called to be the father of the faith. Peter's name is changed to Petros (rock), etc. To sum up, the name change indicates not only character but calling
And what in the world is "Our Father and Mother"? And the line is "Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church," NOT "look on the faith of the people gathered here."
I should have said before I started responding - you are very, very respectful in this discussion. I also agree with much of what you say, including I could have defended the church the way you are mere years ago. But things have caused me to re evaluate my loyalty to a church that has lots of problems. Lots of Good, but also lots of problems. So, thank you for respectful discourse.
Where? Our Lady of Guadalupe,?Where in America?
And if that is the ONLY seminary that is full, one should still worry for the 6 billion people on the planet or the 2 billion Catholics.
In fact far North there are rare priests and laity conduct the mass. Usually nuns or husband and wife couples are running Northern churches. 2 million kilometeres up North of the provinces of Canada. They seem to do o.k. without male priests overseeing every parish.
Priests do not only hold the role of advisors, either. their main roles usually involve guiding the community as a whole in spirituality. Essentially, the sacraments. So while priests do have the role of advisors, their goal is to get that person closer to God.
pardon me, I don't know if this actually spurned from this era. But I do know that Cardinals elect the Pope for a reason. And they are all elected, too.
Rightly so that the role of the priest was "blurred".
The Priest in either male or female, should be church leaders in small groups. - That, however, is not what the Church does today. But that is for SURE what the EARLY church did.
Rm 16, Acts 18, 21 etc.
It does seem like masses of random scripture, but in fact it all interconnects. :) The trinity is in the Bible. (it talks of the Holy spirit, right?) The Church doesn't claim that ALL Dogma comes from scripture. it's from scripture and tradition. For example, the types of words in their specific orders for the Mass. A lot of (if not all) of the Mass is from scripture or refers to scripture. but scripture never said at what specific order they are to all be put together.
When did Saint Paul become Christ?
Lets just apply logic to your 'thinking', shall we. If as a teacher I remind a student about the rules for not smoking on school grounds, and outline all the reasons the school upholds those rules, and refusing to be convinced the student speaks to the Principal who again points out the crystal clear rules of the school in the matter of smoking, if the student PERSISTS in smoking AFTER the school has articulated its position, wouldnt it be fair to state that this student is DEFYING the school?
3. Paul contradicts himself by saying Phoebe is a minister, and Junia is an apostle, then saying women can lead a church? hmm, it is highly debated by biblical scholars that Paul did not author at least 6 of the epistles - books of Timothy, Titus, Epheisans, Colossians, are those in question. That might then explain the CONTRADICTION.
Actually, MARY MAGDALENE is the FIRST GOSPEL PREACHER. Mary Jesus Mother is the very first APOSTLE. That is in the bible btw.
Phoebe is a minister and Paul tells other church leaders (male and female) to assist her. That means she is a leader of both men and women. Junia is an apostle. Jesus remanded all to deliver the gospel (men and women) , if one has learned well and is a follower in good stead. Adding titles does not make a difference, although the only words of titles are minister/deacon or elder. Jesus nor Paul make any reference to Bishops, Priests, or a heirarcy of men. It is only MEN who do so.
@jcr385
Same could be said for the male priesthood. The Roman Catholic priest shortage is severe. And how many young people are sitting in your local RC church?
n.b. Anglican churches just started ordaining women for most part in 1992. It took time for them to make their place.
This is just one group where women are serving as priests.
The problem with your comment is not that you noted no youth in this group, but your disparaging comment that it goes in the trash heap.
Sorry, clarification: I did not mean to imply that I know a lot or more than others. I meant that I write a lot. :) I am curious how other people survive in life. There is no perfect way or system or utopian society, whether religious or in ancient cultures or modern. But people are works in progress, advancing and retreating in their knowledge or experience.
I would only have thought that we would have come a lot farther by the 21st century in treating others (all humans and life) better.
The majority of the NT is written by Paul - who was NOT an eye witness or in Jesus early walks and ministry. Pauls writings veer in many things from what Jesus focused on because he was quite adamant they were living in end times. One would think the books written about Jesus life and the apostles writings would be a much higher count in the New Testament , with only a few from Paul to indicate continuation of the church?
Finally, in my Bible, it says minister, a translation from "Diakonos," the Greek term for servants. My translation also says that it is frequently used for "servants, attendants, or ministers" in the Church.
"Tradition, for him to be conceived in anything but a holy place. David, Abraham, and Moses weren’t called to give birth to Jesus." the Greek translation gives us even more of an assurance, "Kanre, Ke kare tomene" (pardon my horrible greek spelling). Ke Kare Tomene is a perfect past participle, which indicates that the action has already been completed in the past (the filling of Grace), resulting in a present state of being. (full of Grace). It is also a name, as Gabriel greets Mary this way
.."Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race. ..
Romans 16:1 Phoebe is listed as a deacon or minister according to some translations. Romans 16:7 Junia is listed as outstanding amoung apostles.
Lydia and Priscilla are included as equal leaders in the early churches.
Thanks again for your well thought out responses.
I will hope to get to this discussion soon.
you are welcome, and thank you very much for the acknowledgement. there are lots of problems in the Church. But to blame those problems on Church doctrine. . . . Church Doctrine is inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, while many of the problems occur because humans happen to make up the Church, and we, as a race, make mistakes, misjudgements, etc. :)
This does not indicate that Mary is the CO-Mediatrix, which you claimed.
Not possible... Recorded in the Sacred Scriptures. One of the main reasons is that Jesus himself chose 12 male apostles. There were many women available that He could have chosen, but He only chose 12 males. The Church has NO authority to ordain women. The priest represents Christ "In persona Christi" when administering the Sacraments, and as such is the groom, which is male.
1 Corinthians 11:23-33 Tradition of the Institution.
"Let all the children of the Catholic Church, who are so very dear to us, hear these words of ours. With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin."
We don't have any nuns in our parish or community. Most small towns in Canada do not have female religious anymore - for years and some never. Most priests are heading 2 parishes or more parishes. They could talk to women of the laity? but who is trained or can handle that confidential information wisely? One cannot just talk to "anyone". As for a nun? They are unmarried and have no children, so there are limitations re: marital and childrens issues, as well as sexuality.
I wouldn't say that doesn't go along with the Dogma. Jesus said to love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and might. As to the praying to saints, and the immaculate conception, those are also in the New Testiment. Let me explain:
OUR LORD did appear before Mary Magdalene and made her the first gospel preacher and she LISTENED.
Having faith, is something we agree upon. Having FAITH in CHRIST is a huge distinction from having "belief" in a Church heirarchy and "humans" who are less than perfect.
So we do agree on that.
The Church uses the word "Holy" all the time as ascribed to many persons.
We can be "Holy", that is the goal we all have.
And the Church promotes this word and action in our lives.
1. Jesus never put restrictions on who coud be a leader of his gospel message, other than to teach the way he taught.
Rm 16, has Phoebe as a minister (Paul tells church leaders to ASSIST her). Junia is an apostle.
Where does Jesus say where two or more are gathered in my name, I will be in their midst? Where does Jesus say ask for anything in my name and I will do it?
So then if Jesus says the above - does Jesus say to perform ELABORATE, ELITE, EXCLUSIVE incantations and rituals to bring the HOLY SPIRIT? (hint - NO WHERE).
If nothing exists outside of us, then why would anyone else have huge power over our hearts, minds, bodies and souls - as we allow when we love mother, father or brother, sister, or lover.
As we allow when we love our new born baby and all else vanishes about what is important about worldly things, other than taking care of a precious life who is bound to us forever.
What is the purpose of such love outside self? Why should there be a struggle to master self, love and pain from love.
@coolwater55 Really? I just watched it again and I still fail to see anyone under the age of what appears to be about 50... how is this movement supposed to continue if there are no young people there to carry it forward?
The young want none of this rot. They are headed to the Latin Mass. It is full of them. Viva Christo Rey!
Find me where if so. Because it seems to me and many others that Jesus said: