I’ve been a cleric enjoyer since I first started playing the game and I’ll admit I’ve had people think it’s an invitation to overshare their opinions on real life religions. I just want to be the healer…
Cleric is one of my favorite classes as well. The myriad of options there are, and with (DM approval of course) the entire known pantheon of Gods to choose to be devoted to, the role playing aspect of them is fantastic. Gods may, or may not, actually exist. But in D&D they absolutely do, and you get to be their instrument through which their might and will may be displayed. And that's just bonafide badass lol For 5e my favorite clerics so far are good old war and life. But I'm really hoping to get a chance to play a trickery cleric, who acts either like a rouge, or more likely, a bard, a fun loving goofball, who just wants to spread happiness and make people's lives better 🙂
You know what they say.. being a healer in a game is like bottoming for others... Jokes aside, yeah like 40% of my characters were clerics and I do mostly play as supports. I love some fireball nuking sorcerer tho from time to time, I need that so I can play the calm and reasonable healer next time xD
@waterfire8 but that's why I like clerics. Not for the bottoming, which if anything it's a power bottom since you get to decide who lives or dies! Lol but because there's so many versions of the cleric you can play. You want to blast? Light cleric! You get fireball and everything. Trickery for rogue like shenanigans. Tempest for another version of blaster/front liner. There's just so many options. One of my favorites is war though. Cause being able to get a fat +10 hit to make sure you don't miss that important up casted inflict wounds is so good!
Not ''atheist''. 'Anti-theists' most certainly. A real god-less like myself is the 1st one to want to argue theology as I can't help but show opinions-beliefs do not reflect reality that is only truth. Consider it a mischievous curiosity on my part as I like to see what governs others as a man that never had god nor needed one as a mute till 7 I knew nothing of the Abrahamic god till 9. People that are defensive or against religion calling themselves 'atheists' which are often transhumanists or really agnostics are opposed to Abrahamic faith because they were brought up in it yet broke it's tenants while never compatible with said faith. To clarify Transhumanists see themselves as above the matter of god/theology or even as a god themselves in hubris. Their rejection of god is a faith of idolism in it's self ironically. On a seperate note: Funnily I have never broken 1 of the 10 commandments & yet didn't know them till much later in my life. Honestly if you need to be told not to do that said 10 you kind of innately are unlikeable at the very least . I have no Idols & I can't take that in vain which is not real such as in any god so I am indifferent I suppose. I even thought the old gods when young such as Zeus, Odin or Hercules etcetera were our elders made mythic in tales from our later elders boasting of them. Like how My Great grand father talked highly of his father & so on.
A tid bit that many do not know is Shintou & Buddhism are technically atheism though spiritual atheism rather then Material or classical atheism. If you believe in anything extra-terrestrial, supernatural or spiritual you are not really an atheist in the classical sense as naturalist or materialist. By the Materialist/naturalist atheists which is what most people envision as atheists number less 2million globally with the highest % by country in Iceland. Being a man that never had faith or religion I wonder how rare I am which is why I go by God-less or 'never of deity'. I do find it amusing that theists see Atheists as 1 group with no distinction when we vary more then the denominations in found in theology.
Ngl, solid foreshadowing too. Lucy was given warnings and refused to heed them and when the consequences came a-knockin she tried crying to the DM to no avail
Lucy was right about one thing: She wasn't emotionally stable enough to handle people with faith, I doubt she was emotionally stable enough to interact with people with a different point of view period. The fact that her character was a Theophobic edglord who was deliberately made to be antagonistic towards the OP is pretty evident of this.
Yeah, not all atheists by any stretch, but I've met a couple like this over my life. They set themselves up as being "persecuted" or something, but *every single time* you hang out, "God/religion bad" somehow comes up, and you get to wondering 'did your aunt and uncle actually ask you to stop visiting "because you're an atheist" or was it because you constantly dumped on their faith?' Of course there was an inevitable falling out, and I'm sure I'm in their religion grudge book now too.
@@Sintar07 That sucks. Had similar stuff happen with me and it wasn't fun. Gaslighting 101: make yourself the victim so that you're "the good guy" and whoever is upsetting you is automatically the bad guy. Ofc, not saying everyone is like that, but when you meet those lovely individuals, it can be quite... an experience.
Kinda pressing X to doubt she was hated on by religious people. Most of us aren't like that. But religious people also aren't afraid to disagree on important beliefs. I suspect that's what the girl couldn't handle.
I would've challenged her immediately, "You're playing a rogue. Does that mean you pick locks, shoplift, and break into homes in real life? No? Then shut up." Of course there are people who want to be IN the game, but not everyone does. Sometimes you just want to play a game.
Not saying that anti religious or atheists tend to believe cliche Rogue behavior is okay irl. However people who justify cliche Rogue behavior irl, tend to be anti religious.
I would have been out the second she lied to the DM about being sent "hateful messages". She hadn't even met him yet, and was already trying to gaslight the rest of the group into thinking he was a bad person because of her prejudice. You can't win someone over if they've already made up their mind that you're evil before they've even met you.
Wouldn't different types of Christianity such as Babtist, Catholic, Protestant, and such not exist if religious people were somehow magically incapable of questioning their superiors? Edit: Dear God, I never asked for a debate on Christianity, I just wanted to make fun of the problem player's logic! 😭
us Christians have a nasty habit of questioning our "superiors" and then fafing off to do something else well besides God but if he's talking directly to you, thats gonna be both a good adventure and a nightmare waiting to happen
In the first place, asking someone's religious affiliation before the session even starts is already a red flag. I would've screenshotted the conversation, sent it to the DM.
Two things: 1) There actually was rules for the Catholic/Christian god in D&D at one point. It was in an AD&D 2e book dedicated to clerics and alternate versions of the class (the equivalent to archetypes or subclasses in more recent versions of the game). I never used those rules since it was D&D, and I wanted the more fantasy based deities. 2) Some of the people I've played D&D with have been more religious than I ever was. Heck, I knew an actual priest who played. He even said he doesn't like the more fanatical people involved in religions. They tend to make their job harder, and can ruin things for everyone else.
I was trying to remember if there was a book in AD&D 2e that had those stat blocks but I wasn’t sure what to search! I started playing in 3.5, but I swore I had heard jokes about it being a thing
I'd love to play DND with a priest it's really hard to find priests and other clerical people and play DND with them lol. Priests and Christian Brothers and things like that tend to be very interesting people. And they also tend to actually follow the bible so they're a lot nicer than most christians lol.
That priest you mention sounds awesome. I am Catholic and religious myself, but I disapprove strongly of fanatics and I feel like it's okay playing fictional gods in a game. Pretty sure I'm not going to Hell for this.
I’m starting to question if she REALLY ever was attacked or harassed by religious people earlier in life because if this is what she deems “attacking”, it’s leaving me suspicious.
Lol exactly. Sounds like she just really wanted to be attacked so that she could rage. Reminds me of the weirdo gun owners that say things like, "Oo, I wish someone WOULD try to break into my house; they'd get a face full of lead, I can tell you that."
It's probable that she considers her atheism part of her identity and, therefore, anyone who is a theist is questioning her identity rather than disagreeing with an option. Most, if not all, extreme negative reactions to opposing opinions are a result of this dynamic in my experience.
I personally have never met someone with claims like that who can actually substantate them even with a story to tell me. Not to say that I have the greatest breath of experience, but I do live in a very religous area which ends up polarizing people. All the anti people I've talked to have super thin complaints blown out of porportion so I wouldn't be suprised to learn its the same here
They "attacked" her by asking if she has accepted Christ's love. Atheists are whiny, immature clown babies. They're so cringy and embarrassing. I was atheist for 36 years until I started to interact with the community. Made me convert to Christian in less than 2 years
Notable moments: "Religious people are all brainwashed to never question their leaders!" ...there is literally vast disagreement about the Pope and a new religious symbol *right now,* let alone the history of Christianity which includes events like the protestant reformation. "I don't think that YOU sufficiently understand that this is MY campaign." 😂 that was a beautiful DM comeback.
@@Sintar07 I love it when the DM isn't a spineless dope. Too many of these stories have them, so I appreciate that the DM had actually been talking to Lucy but Lucy seemingly just did not get it. Or she did and she's a literal hellspawn who's taking the guise of an atheist.
I genuinely can't wrap my head around people just denying any amount of fantasy for themselves and others, or acting like someone's character has to be a carbon copy of their personal views or physical traits. I'm an atheist myself, getting bent out of shape over other peoples' religions or the fictional religions in a tabletop game is pointless. If no one's hurting or harassing each other, just have fun ffs.
Because you're not a Reddit Atheist who lives and breaths hatred. You're a legit atheist who wants their curiosity sated through questions. And if there is legit proof of divine existences, you'd accept it. She wouldn't. She wants to have a reason to despise others. She wants problems, no solutions.
Honestly? This right here. I'm culturally Christian but personally agnostic, and I don't grudge anyone their choice of religion as long as they don't try to shove it down my damn throat like some politicians like to do. And fictional religions? I have played clerics before, and I'd like to play a paladin someday.
I’ll say this as someone who is a very faith-filled Christian, I’ve experienced militant atheists like this woman, and I’ve experienced more cerebral atheists. I’ve also experienced extreme Christians who would think pretending to be a follower of a fictional God in DND is satanic. I know because I love playing paladins (which are the best class and I will not be taking counter arguments today) and I often choose Bahamut as a deity. I’ve gotten flack from both extremes, but we shouldn’t confuse the people with the worldviews that they proclaim to represent. As a side note, as a follower of Christ, if anyone wants to ask questions or debate with me, I’d thoroughly enjoy that! As long as we are both coming at it in good-faith (no pun intended).
Idk man i feel like all of these people are incredibly passive. if i was DM i would have have that chicks character struck down by lightning. i'd call it divine intervention
Naw when she's no longer in the group, DM takes over the character and she gets formed to become a cleric who ends up staying behind because of her new calling lol.
@@GuciomI also think it's just decency that overrides recognizing a person like Lucy has issues and just isn't a good fit for the game. They hear she's been mistreated, so they take her word for it and are reluctant to reject her. Fortunately for them, she did the rejecting.
I saw this story on Den of the Drake a couple of years ago and it helped me feel a lot better. I'm Christian like OP and I was harassed for my beliefs and it really got to me and it still affects me to this day years later. It wasn't "You're an idiot for believing in God", like in this story, it was, "You're a horrible bigoted human being who hates every single person of this one specific group and you want to see them all removed from the earth!" when I never said anything whatsoever to that effect. I even said that if I were to see someone of that one specific group being beaten up and kicked while they're down, I would come to their rescue and help them up and that I accepted them as my brothers and sisters in Christ. "What about Non-Binary People? Why couldn't you say siblings instead?" Yes, that was their response and I lost my patience then and there and called them out on their bull.
Satan will have his way with the earth for a while, but we know who wins in the end. That said, I wish there was a way to reach more people before that time comes.
Yeah man, so many people have an immensly twisted view of our faith. Its quite frustrating, but I mean the book says it'll happen so we shouldnt be suprised. It also helps when you realize that 90% of the time they're trying to accuse you of the things that they do to try and feel better about it
It's quite simple, as I see it. Religion, to me, is just another set of rules. Be a certain way, act a certain way, or be some measure of damned. Some of these rules can be quite arbitrary. Don't eat certain meat. Don't eat at a certain time. Don't love certain people. Don't marry outside your faith. Make an honest and earnest attempt to make those who do not believe, believe. I prefer to be unencumbered by these things, you understand. Now, I'll not disparage anyone who wishes to adhere to such doctrines. Unless I see anyone doing anything too extreme as a result, of course. And I am sorry to hear of your being harrassed for it. Now, I do have to give you my perspective, however. To the ones who expect everyone else to adhere to their code. I have neither the patience nor inclination to appease the doctrine of every religion out there, and so I find those who expect it done for theirs, by everyone, quite tedious. And the idea that certain people seem to think that since they believe in a god, they gain the omniscience of one. But that's another matter entirely.
@@Cantripping Talking about eating certain meat reminded me of something else he said. When I said it was against my religion (Christianity), he said I was being a fool for quote, "Following an old dusty book written by a bunch of old guys that prohibits eating pork and shellfish" unquote Not eating Pork and Shellfish is a JEWISH thing, not a Christian thing, and one of the reasons Jews are forbidden from eating those things apart from it being a condition of God's Covenant to his chosen people is because if you try to eat one of those things in that time period where properly preparing food and medicine wasn't a thing yet, you'd get sick and die!
Honestly it does feel like that sometimes. I was lucky where my core group got along well and it didn’t feel like a chore to get everyone together and play.
8:24 I was a smug atheist too at one time (not proud of that one, but we've all been rebelious teenagers). But this is a lack of respect for the player, I would probably have fuck off right about that moment. Nothing good will come of playing with this kind of people.
At least you came to realize that and grew as a person, maybe Lucy will too or maybe not but I'll choose the side of positivity simply because I want to believe in people being mostly good.
Yeah tbh it wouldn't have even gotten to this point with me, I'd have left after the DM first told me Lucy said I attacked her. DnD takes WAY too much time to be dealing with that shit.
You know it’s gonna be a fun time when someone’s initial and immediate response is to hound another player OOC about their faith, and then don’t understand the intricacies despite asking for them.
Would be intresting to see lucy reaction to a dnd campaign about taking down an evil cult who is trying to remove all gods from the world, (whoch would destabilize magic and the fabric of plane)
>party player hates religious people >makes rouge that hates religious people >Christian player >makes Paladin like a chad 5 minutes in and the campaign is DoA.
I like the part where they are obsessed with being anti relegion but dont know what denomination means. Thats like loving cars but not knowing what a spark plug is.
The irony of an anti-religious person behaving much more like a fanatic than most religious people. At this point, it won't be a stretch to call this a cult, with how extreme those people act!
@@eddyeldridge7427he meant reddit aethists who indeed act like cultists. I’m currently into wheel of time and the conversations are swarmed with people using every opportunities to Christian bash and take conversations completely off topic to hate on others. Despite the fact that the writer himself was a Christian. Reddit aethists are real, and are indeed a cult that major corporations allow to be as rude as possible and its about time they get called out for their hatefulness. Again, not calling out all aethists
And that's what we call cultural Christianity. That's what happens when someone says they're against an institution, but they don't dismantle what's bad about it.
Atheists and vegans are both just horrible pains in the butt to deal with. And I'm willing to bet this chick wouldn't have been so vocal had the dude been Muslim or literally anything but what he is. She's just another self righteous bigot that pretends they're not because they're hating the "right thing" to hate.
@@Sinebeast that's why I refuse to like or even truly debate religion or politics as both in my mind equal to suffering on all ends and I don't like it
People who are unable to separate real life experiences from a literal game of fantasy and make believe with an entirely different set of rules that govern its reality fascinate me. I'm not religious at all, but at this very moment I'm playing a Fighter with a religious background who is going through a religious awakening and is well on the road to becoming a Paladin. Paladins are cool, it feels like the natural progression to my character, and even if i don't particularly believe in any real higher power, they definitely exist in D&D and nothing's going to stop me from being faithful to the setting and playing it straight
I wonder if the people who play D&D just to enact their own fantasies project that on to others, and that's why they can't understand when a character is different to its player.
I do notice there are some players who want to play a self insert and then kind of apply that standard to everyone else too. I think that is why the genre of Isekai really has taken off because it’s a situation where it’s a fun new fantasy world to explore but the protagonist is someone who could be you given the circumstances. So when players treat it like their own chance at an Isekai, they get surprised when others aren’t maybe?
@@lootgoblinmarketplace I dont usually make characters to be self inserts, but I do often have an emotion or experience which I wanna express with characters. Something i've experienced and want to further understand ya know? So Esma's thing is that she had love and then lost it because a witch cursed her to be forever on fire. She lost her love and wants her back. She's also on fire so she can never really find another lover ~~Unless they're resistant to fire I guess~~. I think this can make you play a character a lot more deep and passionately and it can come through as good RP. Because you are also feeling those emotions in some way which your character is experiencing. It is a very fun way to play characters and very introspective. Though dont make it too close to home or make it too clear to the party that this character is essentially a diary lmao.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace I think you're right. When I get to play (mostly DM) I like to play characters that are fairly similar emotionally and morally to me. Thats just my prefrence, not much of an actor and I'm more interested in exploring a version of me in fantastical situations than a stranger I made up if that makes sense. But I still know that the character isnt me, and that other people don't play that way. Stories like these make me really greatful that I've always played with people who have a strong grasp on reality vs fiction. No matter the character they play as
@@lootgoblinmarketplace One of my DMs actually banned isekai style backgrounds for the sole purpose of avoiding self-inserts. It was insanely staggering how many people that left due to that alone! One changed to a different character, but decided to act bummed the entire time because he actually had to play a fantasy character and not a self-insert.
@@RanMouri82 She had no intention of playing the game. She wanted a world how she THINKS it should be. She wants a world just like the one she lives in. A delusional extremely small bubble.
I've not played D&D in a long time. The only thing close to THIS kind of annoyance is knowing my future sister in-law hates Batman, paladins and Jedi. Plays as a chaotic evil druid dark elf evidently, thought about joining the campaign just to be a chaotic good cleric and deny her healing if she's not being good. She even told me she tried to kill her party's paladin several times for "trying to push her religion on me" which if you know my future sister in-law, pretty much means telling her not to do bad things. She's one of those kinds of far leftists that will brand you as an ist and phone for not believing exactly as she does. Yeah, I should just stay out of that campaign, let her burn her own bridges.
Recently joined a group and was like oh this may be fun and the whole group was just edgy Reddit atheists lol, no nuance at all the bbeg was literally just Christianity not even a dnd religion insert, I was like oh so what is the vibes of the religion and the DM said “ you know Christianity? Yeah just that”. It was rough.
@ and yeah I am a Christian and know their have been people that have used religion for bad things. But there are ways to play a campaign with that vibe without bashing actual religious people. But the DM just kinda felt with a lot of what she said like an atheist that been on Reddit too long. Not trying to be mean that’s jut how it felt.
There are ways to bring in religious elements in interesting ways. For example, you could bring in cyclical time from the Vedic Yugas by having the bbeg be a reoccurring force that periodically resets civilization to some base level. That could be a cool way to address the subject in a roundabout manner
@@whitehawk4099and that would be awesome! I’ve played in campaigns where there is an overbearing religious group. Had a lot of fun but this was just not it.
@@MattyBuilds Oh yeah, that can be pretty bad. I find that most things can be done well if you have a good enough DM, but it can be difficult. Like, you could basically just take stories directly from the Bible as long as they were done well and adapted for the format and setting. You could have the bbeg be some kind of god-king character who is attempting to become a literal god on earth by ascending to the heavens while maintaining a foundation upon the earth below. Which is impossible, as the further you get upward the shakier your ascent becomes, until you eventually come crashing to the ground below. This symbolism could be conveyed by having some reagents he uses to create potions to empower himself which also, if the adventurers research about it, provide a weakness (unbeknownst to him) to some form of damage type. Or the adventurers can poison it directly, or any number of other things. Just symbolically his attempt to ascend to heaven is let down by earthly failings at the very foundation of the attempt which, although he can try to make up for it by doubling down on it, will only become more and more fatal a flaw. That could be pretty interesting, but here I'm basically just cribbing from the Tower of Babel for the concept. The problem here is the doing them well part, because the kinds of people who are going to just take something directly are probably going to be pants at implementing them
Why are people so petty like this? I'm an atheist with a similar bad experience with organized religion but I know better than to attack nice people just because of their affiliation. There are so many nice people out there and labels often just get in the way.
Yeah, it is very sad to see. I will always feel bad for people who had bible thumping parents or family members. D&D was one of the games you couldn’t play in that kind of household, which makes it sad to see people act this way and be petty to someone who is just trying to have fun and experience D&D with friends.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace It was truly sad as it could have been a good roleplaying opportunity if Lucy was willing to see the common good. I believe most people want to be good but just have different was of defining good and evil. Typically there is alot of common ground and it makes me very happy when I find that common ground with people. there still could have been a back and forth about beliefs and whether or not religion is better for an induvial (it really depends many factors) while still reaching towards a common goal. However, I am assuming the PCs were playing good or at least neutral characters. Some of my best friends have very different beliefs from me but are just plain good people that I benefit from having in my life being narrowminded would have made my world so much smaller and worse. It seems like Lucy hardly even gave the OP a chance. Also it would be really hard to argue against a person who could actually heal and save people using the power of the good god they followed. Lucy was totally bringing her baggage into the game and not really roleplaying at all.
I want to apologize on behalf of any Christians who have hurt you in any way because of your religion. I ask of you to judge the religion from the Bible rather than the people, because I can assure you that most of these “Christians” attack people without knowing what Jesus taught about opposing views, which is to respectfully disagree and coexist with them.
I read somewhere once that being an atheist in DND is not saying gods are not real, it's saying they are not worthy of worship. I find this highly interesting as an idea for a character. Too bad Lucy couldn't have gone that route.
Not trying to be mean or correct you, but isnt that an antitheist? If I'm remembering correctly, atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods at all while an antitheist is someone who believes in gods but doesn't worship them.
@NachoBran_CandyCabbage true, if you look at it from this way, there would be no atheists is a typical DND game. Because it's pretty much impossible to say they don't exist when clerics literally have their gods on speed dial. But you're right, the word atheist is probably wrong in the context.
The official lore about that is that atheist in dnd is thinking that the gods are just very powerful people but nothing seperates them from what normal people can achieve and therefore deserve no worship beyond that
@@OdinAUTNot to say it's an impossible concept though, a character that dismisses divine magic as a misunderstood form of magic and maybe has some beef with organized religion might work, if played in the right environment and by the right player.
Atheism in DND is some next level stupidity. Like you have to actively deny these beings of immense power exist and literal miracles they can produce. Now antitheism, that makes sense as the gods can be very undeserving of worship at times.
Not entirely related to this post, but I was talking with one of my coworkers who plays dnd and he said one of the other players in his group was a cleric who was a self described "cool youth pastor" and spent most of the one-shot trying to have a sit down with the brooding rogue and talk about his problems forming friendships. Nothing much came of it since it was a one shot but I just find it to be a funny concept for a religious character.
Not D&D related, but I had a writers’ group “friend” who was convinced I was in a cult because of my particular denomination, but wouldn’t say so to me directly. She actually HAD been in a cult, so maybe she was just extra sensitive to the idea of cults, but it annoyed me she’d tell other people she thought I was a cult member but not talk to me directly. Wasn’t the only thing about her that rubbed me the wrong way, I admit, but what finally made me feel comfortable avoiding her entirely. It’s definitely not just the Christians that get weird around religion. She was some flavor of Wiccan IIRC.
"It's stories like this that make me question if RPG Horror Stories are even real" as someone who's been asked the "are you religious" question by a DM, and then just auto-blocked when I said I was, without even telling me I wasn't a good fit for their game, yeah, stuff like this really happens. Not saying it's only the anti-religious that behave this way. There's plenty of examples of religious people being awful to non-religious people in social settings too, and I've seen plenty of that. Just saying that the story is entirely believable based on my own experiences, too. It's just a shame people can't just share this thing they have in common, of just bonking imaginary monsters, without finding reasons to be jerks to each other.
Some people are very religious in their belief of science and atheism. Not just believing in the scientific method, but that we already know all there is to know and can never be mistaken.
@@DeltaDanner Funnily enough, thinking we know all there is to know and can never be mistaken is *active disbelief* in the scientific method, or, at the very least, complete ignorance about what the scientific method *is* .
I like playin' an agnostic in games with hard coded pantheons and mythos; mainly as either someone who doesn't really care for the gods (because it tends to be the BG3 situation, where they all kinda just suck to deal with), or as someone who is just completely oblivious. Play a Cleric that totally just thinks their a really good doctor; and have their deity get really invested in trying to prove they exist to them.
Faith is a requirement to play a cleric in DND. If the person loses their faith, they lose their magical abilities. What you’re describing, however, would be perfect for a celestial warlock.
@@jasonhenry8067 Fun fact... at least in 2nd Ed, one could be an atheist cleric. Factol Terrance of the Athar basically went "I believe that there must be some Great Unknown that is at least as far beyond these extremely powerful, but non-divine schmucks galled 'gods', as these 'gods' are beyond us". And through this firm, atheistic faith, he remained able to cast spells at his full power (though, probably wisely, he didn't exactly publicly advertise still having that power). Planescape was wild, man. 😄
@@Oh_Its_That_Weirdo 3e as well Well kinda The Favored Soul class is based on the sorcerer but with only divine magic with yourself being the Source so you don't need faith
I dare someone to try to deny me my Paladins, My Clerics, My evangelistic Bards, My Holy Monks, My Devout Druids, or My Theurgist Wizard. These are some of the most compelling characters that I usually play and opens a butt load of roleplay opportunities. Screw this chick.
She wanted both OP and his character to be the ridiculous archetypal Christian trope that she developed on her head but got incresingly frustrated and angry with him as she realized he wasn't playing to her own fantasy. She wanted his character to worship God (Christian) in order to roleplay her real-life spite of Christianity. Saying that non-denominational Christians are the same as Protestants also shows how ignorant she is on the matter.
I wonder what Lucy would say if she knew that Gary Gygax was a Jehovah's Witness (before he was asked to leave due to his smoking habit and not for any change in his beliefs) and Dave Arneson was a member of The Way International, a rather conservative nondenominational Christian ministry, and was an active missionary? The former D&D artist Larry Elmore has participated in multiple panels on both being Christian and Christianity and Gaming at GenCon for years. Tracy and Laura Hickman, the creators of Dragonlance, are both rather devout members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Tracy has stated that his faith often inspires his work. I doubt our hobby would look anything like it does today without these folks.
@@theenderdestruction2362Same with Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia. It’s so weird how people of faith create fantastical worlds and stories only for years later people of the same faith to label everything DnD like as satanic. Just nuts..
@@_Xiagax_ Rowling and Harry Potter as well. Turns out when half the western world use to profess to being Christian a lot of big important achievements in literature come from them.
@@Silver_Ever Now you know how everyone else feels when you Christoids get on your soapbox and yap about how we are going to hell. Trust me, the moment you guys stop thumping your chests, no one will bother you.
As opposed to the humility of claiming to know a god for certain exists AND that the whole universe was created just for you, because you're the most important thing in it?
@ArcCaravan Not individually. But they think the only existence higher than humanity is the literal divine. And yes, the universe was made to house humanity, more than anything else.
I’d love to play an atheist character in a one-shot. They’d be the Faerun equivalent of a young earth creationist, except instead of saying “God did it” they’d say “super wizards did it”.
If i remember correctly, in Faerun there exists a section of hell dedicated solely to atheists because in that setting, you go to the domain of the God you most worship after you die. So if you don't worship any, your soul gets snatched up, embedded into a wall, and you suffer for all eternity. It's pretty brutal to be a non believer in a setting where there's a god or god equivalent for practically everything
I used to be this kind of militant atheist. You know, the one that believed that religion was a crutch for stupidity and we needed to get rid of it to progress as a species. Nowadays, I think that there's nothing wrong with finding something to help bring meaning into your life, religion or otherwise, so long as you're not hurting yourself or others.
Precisely, as a Christian I am appalled by others who attack other religions because they’re wrong. Obviously I think you are incorrect, but that doesn’t mean you are evil, you are just trying to answer the question of existence, and the Bible even says to respect other beliefs because they are just trying to rationalize with what they can. I’m sorry for any rudeness from other Christians, we are not supposed to be like that
A good number of the people I knew that were self proclaimed atheist, yet in reality anti-theists, were those inconvenienced by faith as children. They then distorted these memories into misremembered half-forgotten nightmares of oppression. In their rebellion against a religion foisted upon them they turn "atheism" into their new faith. With tenets, creeds, doctrines, saints, and demons; anti-theism becomes a crusade waged with zealous fervor. Any not of their doctrines and orthodoxy are blind fools and enemies. They must be saved from their own ignorance and superstition and, if not, ostracized or destroyed. I feel very sorry for them. Not because I'm a religious man, but because they've closed their minds off to the very concept of reason itself. Again, in my experience, and I don't wish to generalize those that aren't religious as belonging to one group. I simply have lost a number of good friends over the years to anti-theistic and extreme atheistic philosophy over the years. I miss our debates and conversations, but they don't do that anymore.
Wouldn't homebrewing the Christian God in D&D be more disrespectful than having your pretend character worship a pretend God? Dumb question for the sake of Al Gore's rhythm or something.
Correct. And it is only a sin if you turn your character's religion into your religion. Remember, Tolkien, the man effectively responsible for D&D, was a devout Christian, and yet he created various gods in his stories.
Depends on your thoughts about iconoclasm I suppose. The easiest answer is, "If you think it's disrespectful and sinful then it is." Suppose you believe that drinking soda is a sin, even if it isn't, but drink soda anyway then it becomes a sin for you, personally. Because even though you have not broken any explicit laws simply by drinking soda, you have in your heart deliberately taken an action that you believe to be sinful which makes that action a sin. Does that make sense? Now, there are explicit laws against defiling the name of God and in that context using God within a piece of art is something of a gray area. The Eastern Roman Empire had a big controversy about artistic depictions of God and Jesus for a while, some saying that art that sanctifies God is fine while others arguing, "No, any depiction is creating a graven image - which we are not to do" and to this day many Christians have different opinions on that matter.
Not exactly. It just wouldn’t work in a dnd setting because Christianity is all about surrendering your control to God which means your stories agency would be center focused on a plot revolving around faith that he will guide you through the storm, and since dnd is all about characters getting stronger to take on stronger foes, it would just be really hard to write well
I was raised an athiest and came to Christ in my mid 20's. I'm southern Baptist, have degrees in Bible and Missiology, a minor in teacher education and public speaking, and specializations in apologetics and evangelism. When I sit at that table I am a Lv 1 goblin sorcerer, nothing more nothing less. I'm there to unwind, to seperate myself from the hardships of life for a couple hours. I don't care who you worship, I dont care what part of your body gets stuck where, and I don't care who you vote for. If you want we can have a debate in the parking lot but NOT AT THE TABLE.
I experienced my fair share of Lucys IRL even when I was an Atheist too. This is the first RPG horror story I listened to that doesn’t make me doubt its authenticity. From the first attempt to lie about OP’s PM to the “I dont feel safe” on Discord comment. This is just how some people are.
2:25 I get it, I do. But... I wouldn't have sent this message. It feels like its just giving an excuse for the other party to be confrontational about it. EDIT: And to be clear, the statement itself is fine. It's just that, given what I know of the situation two minutes in so far, Lucy is an instigator. The worst thing you can do is give instigators fuel.
Honestly OP handled himself VERY WELL I mean I'd be livid if somebody said something like "God is fantasy" in such a disrespectful manner, Like I have been playing D&D with athiestic/agnostic people and while they know my own beliefs, they remain respectful as I respect them We have some jokes here and there but they are among friends and never tend to be obnixous
I am floored by your kindness... and idiocy! 😮😉 I would've told the DM after the initial quiz from Lucy that I will not participate with such a freakazoid. Then came the "haha, just kidding" gaslighting... At that point, my message to the DM would be "Either you drop the maniac who can't separate reality from fantasy, or I'm gone! I got enough crazy to deal with IRL, don't need it in my game!"
Omg the samething happened to my fiancee in a DnD game and it ruined his experience with DnD. Im now trying to get him back into playing with me and my older sister and her friends. Like we play DnD for fantasy to escape reality why pull your real world issues into it?
@Spartan135 There's atheists, and then there's anti-religion people who fail to realize they've turned not having a religion into a religion in and of itself, thus becoming the very thing they swore to destroy.
I'm actually an atheist myself and Lucy makes me cringe. If religious people aren't hurting anyone who cares what they believe? I LOTHE Orginiased religion but It's not because they believe in a god. And especially making a big deal about it in the context of a dnd game is just eye-rolling.
"She tried to get DM to give her my name and apartment location." I very much do not want my address to be made known, especially not to crazy people. I'm really not looking for that kind of trouble. That said, what a stupid idea! OP seems like an outlier, but the overwhelming majority of Christians are rather conservative, and most conservative Christians in the US (I'll use myself as an example) are very strong adherents of the second amendment, and are much more likely to have multiple children that we're very interested in keeping safe. Unexpected angry visits by unstable persons are very unwise.
I am a religious person myself but I still enjoy playing evil characters that do horrible things... because it's fantasy lol. I don't inject my real world faith into fantasy games unless it fits the setting then I apply parallel logic to the realms settings. I have only one rule when it comes to RL religion and politics in games and friend circles, "Don't rag on my beliefs and I won't rag on your lack of". Lucy however is the kind of person that there is no middle ground it's their way or the highway and sister the on ramp is right over there lol.
Secular Humanist here playing a very devout Aasimar Cleric who is the half angelic daughter of an Angel, (my choice) and the choosen one of her faith (gm's choice). My character's religion is central to her. But it has no bearing on how I run my life.
As someone is who is mostly against religion as a whole and thinks it should be left in the past, Lucy can kick rocks. Being that much of an asshole and blatantly passing on a false story is childish and ridiculous.
I remember a campaign I did where a religious friend of mine played as a cleric for the Christian God and got my character baptized because I lost a duel and was a tiefling. It was hilarious. I was ok with it of course. If I wasn’t, it wouldn’t have happened
"Religious people aren't developed enough to question their superiors" Tell that to Martin Luther or Galileo, ohh and also tell me if you have received any evidence for the lack of a God that didn't come from a superior, and did you question the stuff that did? In fact I'd be surprised if you belief that religious people aren't developed enough to question their superiors wasn't handed down to you be some superior I don't care teo figs about your beliefs, sexuality or anything like that, but I will fight you tooth and nail if you start making claims like that
Amen. These are often the same people who try and brand religion as anti-science while ignorning that the idea of science as we understand it comes from the Christian tradition. They totally do get fed their lines by superiours who just want attention and to spread hate.
She was probably just encouraged to not make poor descions that would make her feel good right now a couple of times. Seems like that's what i see most the time.
@@PudgySasquatch yeah, not super clear. Let me try again. What I see a lot from people who end up like Lucy is that they started making descions based off instant gratifcation at the expense of long term happiness or positive results. Religion is highly focused on disuading people from that. So someone religious probably gave her advice against whatever it was, drugs, smoking, casual intamacy ect. And she decided that was too strict and she was gonna live her own life and not by some church's rules and yada yada ya. I think every person I've met who claims poor treatment from religous people has basicaly that story. Half the time it's their family who still loves and supports them regardless of their beliefs. but the person despises the idea that there are standards that can be applied to them or that some choices are better than others. So they say religious people treat them poorly. Lot longer but hopefully makes more sense
@JSFal that makes more sense xD yeah I think that's what this was she seems like she turns anything she doesn't want to hear into a personal attack because she can't take criticism, so being told once by someone to do something as simple as slow down on spending probably set her off, and she twisted it into something horrific when re-telling the story
i am an atheist and I love playing clerics. For me, it's as absurd being a theist in the real world as being an atheist in a world were it's obvious patent and demonstrable gods exist. Because for me it's about to act logical in and with the world you are roleplaying in. I really love the lines about atheists that for instance Terry Prattchet has in his Discworld books, for instance. Trying to push stuff from the real world into a fantasy world with its own rules and 'reality' is just as stupid as... doing exactly the opposite thing. Just imagine going around talking about your God of Justice. Or the Force, for a more relatable experience (and yeah, I know some idiots do exactly that, and this is the reason they are idiots).
I once played a barbairan who was so dumb he couldn't read or write but he was a savant at quilting. Dude could quilt with the finest fabrics and even made quilts for royalty. It was so much fun!
It is true some people use their religion not to enlighten others but as a stick to hit others with and vex them. But it is also true many anti-religious people use their non-belief for the same purpose. Lucy is the sort that even if she was religious she would be a jerk about it. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Even if you don't believe that phrase is of divine origin you cannot rationally claim it is not also basic common sense. That is how you should treat yer fellow players.
Not saying that this didn't happen, but this is not normal behavior for an atheist. Idk what the heck is going on with her, but this behavior is unacceptable.
8:42 Gotta love how Lucy accused OP of “attacking her” five seconds after she basically implied he was too stupid to be able to tell if someone was lying to him
6:15 Reminds me many years ago where I put a video out being pretty open about my faith and some dude comes into my comments “You call yourself a Christian but you play games where you kill stuff you “f slur” Ok being a Christian doesn’t mean you can’t participate in fantasy or games where combat/death is present. I guess while we’re at it, Christians can’t watch movies with killing, can’t read books where the protagonist kills for any reason, etc etc. The mental gymnastics of theophobic is just astounding. It just becomes a game to them, “how do I use this persons faith against them to make them look stupid”
She needs to be locked up. Sounds like she's willing to go to VERY concerning extremes and lies in order to victimize someone (and potentially threaten their safety, if the address inquiry is the red flag I think it is). This sounds like the bio of those people you hear about in true crime podcasts.
The only thing I I don't allow to players is to create a character with too many traits that come from them. After years of doing that I made that same mistake almost the first time I was not the DM 😂
painfully cringey story of immature players aside, (i say that as a plural because the DM was coddling the problem player), as an atheist DM I despise running or homebrewing evil religions/organizations. I undestand that most if not all fantasy settings will have some evil gods with some faithful servants, but I always found it more interesting to focus on the good deities worshipped by the players and/or the locals. I think the one time I ever portrayed an evil cult, was to satirize the role of evil cults in DnD rather than a "this is my take on IRL religion"
gonna guess how this started. and do a play by play DM more then likely made off hand comment that one person they play with is a Christian but did not tell Lucy which made her run around the group hunting down which one It was so she could harass em. The assumption Lucy made was since her and the DM where discord server friends that she would let her act like a ass but that did not fly. After lying to DM and getting caught she more then likely actually got chewed out and made a stupid excuse. She was pissed that her plan to have the DM mad at op failed and decided to do the normal passive aggressive none sense with the character sheet. After this she goes the whole pressing buttons route on op more then likely assume the rest of the party cause they did not confirm to be religious would back her up or find It funny. When they just wanna play the fliping game. Most of her fighting with op is the usually attempts to gaslight people and basically drain their willpower til she gets what she wants stuff. When we get to when she leaves and whine at another discord, It was more then likely blackmail vs the DM. Since she try to paint op as the villain in her fake version of events and the DM let op do It. This was a clear "I gave you enough wiggle room If you bend the knee I'll make It go away" tactic. Moral of the story..If people show signs like this..don't play with em.
"What is this, r/atheism?" I had so much to say but this one line summarizes it more than anything. Lucy literally went out of her way to pick fights with OP when he specifically said that he doesn't even go to church.
I actually had something similar but from the flip side of things. Had a party member who was a paladin ripped straight from Warhammer 40k. Like shouting at every opportunity about the God Emperor, however, I talked with the player of the character and we made it into a hilarious in joke of my sorcerer playing into the whole thing and convincing the paladin to tone it down using my high charisma. Basically we flavored it as my character lying his ass off convincing the Paladin that he was a devotee just like him hut in order to accomplish our holy mission we had to be covert, even if it meant contorting with heretics. I convinced the Paladin that I was a grand inquisitor who used magic and heretical means to further the cause while remaining pure
I'm an athiest, but playing religious characters are some of my favorite gaming experiences. Cleric has been my favorite D&D class since 2e and I love angels as supernatural beings. Just because I don't believe something in real life doesn't mean I can't enjoy the idea of it in fiction/fantasy.
I'm personally Christian leaning agnostic. Lots of religions claim they have the truth and have what they claim is proof. I'll just try and not be a total ass and live a good life. No reason to see who is correct early after all :) And yeah, Lucy was not able to handle things and separate the game from life. A shame, but thankfully everyone else still had a good time.
I’ve been a cleric enjoyer since I first started playing the game and I’ll admit I’ve had people think it’s an invitation to overshare their opinions on real life religions. I just want to be the healer…
Cleric is one of my favorite classes as well. The myriad of options there are, and with (DM approval of course) the entire known pantheon of Gods to choose to be devoted to, the role playing aspect of them is fantastic. Gods may, or may not, actually exist. But in D&D they absolutely do, and you get to be their instrument through which their might and will may be displayed. And that's just bonafide badass lol
For 5e my favorite clerics so far are good old war and life. But I'm really hoping to get a chance to play a trickery cleric, who acts either like a rouge, or more likely, a bard, a fun loving goofball, who just wants to spread happiness and make people's lives better 🙂
You know what they say.. being a healer in a game is like bottoming for others... Jokes aside, yeah like 40% of my characters were clerics and I do mostly play as supports. I love some fireball nuking sorcerer tho from time to time, I need that so I can play the calm and reasonable healer next time xD
@waterfire8 but that's why I like clerics. Not for the bottoming, which if anything it's a power bottom since you get to decide who lives or dies! Lol but because there's so many versions of the cleric you can play. You want to blast? Light cleric! You get fireball and everything. Trickery for rogue like shenanigans. Tempest for another version of blaster/front liner. There's just so many options. One of my favorites is war though. Cause being able to get a fat +10 hit to make sure you don't miss that important up casted inflict wounds is so good!
Not ''atheist''.
'Anti-theists' most certainly.
A real god-less like myself is the 1st one to want to argue theology as I can't help but show opinions-beliefs do not reflect reality that is only truth.
Consider it a mischievous curiosity on my part as I like to see what governs others as a man that never had god nor needed one as a mute till 7 I knew nothing of the Abrahamic god till 9.
People that are defensive or against religion calling themselves 'atheists' which are often transhumanists or really agnostics are opposed to Abrahamic faith because they were brought up in it yet broke it's tenants while never compatible with said faith.
To clarify Transhumanists see themselves as above the matter of god/theology or even as a god themselves in hubris.
Their rejection of god is a faith of idolism in it's self ironically.
On a seperate note:
Funnily I have never broken 1 of the 10 commandments & yet didn't know them till much later in my life.
Honestly if you need to be told not to do that said 10 you kind of innately are unlikeable at the very least .
I have no Idols & I can't take that in vain which is not real such as in any god so I am indifferent I suppose.
I even thought the old gods when young such as Zeus, Odin or Hercules etcetera were our elders made mythic in tales from our later elders boasting of them.
Like how My Great grand father talked highly of his father & so on.
A tid bit that many do not know is Shintou & Buddhism are technically atheism though spiritual atheism rather then Material or classical atheism.
If you believe in anything extra-terrestrial, supernatural or spiritual you are not really an atheist in the classical sense as naturalist or materialist.
By the Materialist/naturalist atheists which is what most people envision as atheists number less 2million globally with the highest % by country in Iceland.
Being a man that never had faith or religion I wonder how rare I am which is why I go by God-less or 'never of deity'.
I do find it amusing that theists see Atheists as 1 group with no distinction when we vary more then the denominations in found in theology.
"You may choose to not heed my warning, but do not cry to me when facing the consequences" is actually such a fire line
A very good paladin line, yeah 😂
@@SammaclauseGamgee I was gonna say, for a first time paladin op really got the role down, me thinks they may have a future in the arts lol
bro MIGHT be obi-wan kenobi
Ngl, solid foreshadowing too. Lucy was given warnings and refused to heed them and when the consequences came a-knockin she tried crying to the DM to no avail
Lucy was right about one thing: She wasn't emotionally stable enough to handle people with faith, I doubt she was emotionally stable enough to interact with people with a different point of view period. The fact that her character was a Theophobic edglord who was deliberately made to be antagonistic towards the OP is pretty evident of this.
Yeah, not all atheists by any stretch, but I've met a couple like this over my life. They set themselves up as being "persecuted" or something, but *every single time* you hang out, "God/religion bad" somehow comes up, and you get to wondering 'did your aunt and uncle actually ask you to stop visiting "because you're an atheist" or was it because you constantly dumped on their faith?' Of course there was an inevitable falling out, and I'm sure I'm in their religion grudge book now too.
@@Sintar07 That sucks. Had similar stuff happen with me and it wasn't fun. Gaslighting 101: make yourself the victim so that you're "the good guy" and whoever is upsetting you is automatically the bad guy. Ofc, not saying everyone is like that, but when you meet those lovely individuals, it can be quite... an experience.
Wasn't mentioned, but I wager Lucy's character was supposed to be a self insert.
@@Sintar07 I know it’s not ALL of them but about 80% of all atheists I’ve ever met have been like that.
Kinda pressing X to doubt she was hated on by religious people. Most of us aren't like that. But religious people also aren't afraid to disagree on important beliefs. I suspect that's what the girl couldn't handle.
I would've challenged her immediately, "You're playing a rogue. Does that mean you pick locks, shoplift, and break into homes in real life? No? Then shut up."
Of course there are people who want to be IN the game, but not everyone does. Sometimes you just want to play a game.
You forgot that since she’s a row, she has to have an edgy backstory where her parents died when she was young and she kills people for fun
I think that would have made things worse
@Maninawig They are an idiot anyway. Might as well have a bit of fun with it.
Not saying that anti religious or atheists tend to believe cliche Rogue behavior is okay irl. However people who justify cliche Rogue behavior irl, tend to be anti religious.
@@charlottewalnut3118 I mean. She did have an edgy backstory. It was just less stereotypical to allow room for personal attacks instead.
Many people would say that being told you are wrong is “harassment”
Those people are entitled
Some people are so thin skinned.
then they most likely are wrong most of the time!!
And yet they would do the exact same thing but blatantly and “justify” THEMSELVES.
Thise people are the reason why we need to have some standards/gatekeeping in nerd culture
I would have been out the second she lied to the DM about being sent "hateful messages". She hadn't even met him yet, and was already trying to gaslight the rest of the group into thinking he was a bad person because of her prejudice. You can't win someone over if they've already made up their mind that you're evil before they've even met you.
Agreed. A lie that egregious would be a big nope.
Wouldn't different types of Christianity such as Babtist, Catholic, Protestant, and such not exist if religious people were somehow magically incapable of questioning their superiors?
Edit: Dear God, I never asked for a debate on Christianity, I just wanted to make fun of the problem player's logic! 😭
Christianity wouldn't even exist since it divided from Judaism
The vast majority of saints where people who would question there local authority figures.
Don't forget Orthodoxy ☦! 😉
us Christians have a nasty habit of questioning our "superiors" and then fafing off to do something else well besides God but if he's talking directly to you, thats gonna be both a good adventure and a nightmare waiting to happen
People like Lucy are stupid.
In the first place, asking someone's religious affiliation before the session even starts is already a red flag. I would've screenshotted the conversation, sent it to the DM.
Discrimination is discrimination regardless. Glad for OP that they’re gone
Two things:
1) There actually was rules for the Catholic/Christian god in D&D at one point. It was in an AD&D 2e book dedicated to clerics and alternate versions of the class (the equivalent to archetypes or subclasses in more recent versions of the game).
I never used those rules since it was D&D, and I wanted the more fantasy based deities.
2) Some of the people I've played D&D with have been more religious than I ever was. Heck, I knew an actual priest who played.
He even said he doesn't like the more fanatical people involved in religions. They tend to make their job harder, and can ruin things for everyone else.
I was trying to remember if there was a book in AD&D 2e that had those stat blocks but I wasn’t sure what to search! I started playing in 3.5, but I swore I had heard jokes about it being a thing
I remember something about that. But it has been a while.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace it was definitely not a joke. Like I said before though, I didn't use those rules, and neither did anyone else I played with.
I'd love to play DND with a priest it's really hard to find priests and other clerical people and play DND with them lol. Priests and Christian Brothers and things like that tend to be very interesting people. And they also tend to actually follow the bible so they're a lot nicer than most christians lol.
That priest you mention sounds awesome.
I am Catholic and religious myself, but I disapprove strongly of fanatics and I feel like it's okay playing fictional gods in a game. Pretty sure I'm not going to Hell for this.
I’m starting to question if she REALLY ever was attacked or harassed by religious people earlier in life because if this is what she deems “attacking”, it’s leaving me suspicious.
Lol exactly. Sounds like she just really wanted to be attacked so that she could rage. Reminds me of the weirdo gun owners that say things like, "Oo, I wish someone WOULD try to break into my house; they'd get a face full of lead, I can tell you that."
It's probable that she considers her atheism part of her identity and, therefore, anyone who is a theist is questioning her identity rather than disagreeing with an option. Most, if not all, extreme negative reactions to opposing opinions are a result of this dynamic in my experience.
Based on most atheists I've met with "religious trauma", its probably code for "my parents made me get up at 10 am on a weekday to go to mass >:("
I personally have never met someone with claims like that who can actually substantate them even with a story to tell me. Not to say that I have the greatest breath of experience, but I do live in a very religous area which ends up polarizing people. All the anti people I've talked to have super thin complaints blown out of porportion so I wouldn't be suprised to learn its the same here
They "attacked" her by asking if she has accepted Christ's love. Atheists are whiny, immature clown babies. They're so cringy and embarrassing. I was atheist for 36 years until I started to interact with the community. Made me convert to Christian in less than 2 years
Lucy got told she can't scream swear words in church and has held a grudge ever since
She got a "million dollar question" dollar as a tip when waiting tables
@@littlegiantj8761 she found a Bible in a hotel room and has been malding ever since.
@@HighPhoenix1754 She saw the History Channel Bible series
@@littlegiantj8761 Saw the Chosen series and doesn't like the fact that she likes it.
@@Axel-zc6xj she was asked to lead prayer before a meal
"i'm on a crusade against religion"
- the whole circus
40k in a nutshell
@Nachotaco101 30k. 40k is "I'm on a mission from God, and He hates you most of all."
Wouldn't be the first DnD character crusading against religions.
@@Lorgar64 fair enough
@@Lorgar64 what about the other 38 thousand games?
Notable moments: "Religious people are all brainwashed to never question their leaders!" ...there is literally vast disagreement about the Pope and a new religious symbol *right now,* let alone the history of Christianity which includes events like the protestant reformation.
"I don't think that YOU sufficiently understand that this is MY campaign." 😂 that was a beautiful DM comeback.
@@Sintar07 I love it when the DM isn't a spineless dope. Too many of these stories have them, so I appreciate that the DM had actually been talking to Lucy but Lucy seemingly just did not get it.
Or she did and she's a literal hellspawn who's taking the guise of an atheist.
@@HighPhoenix1754 sounds like something a demon would ngl
Ironic that the controversy is over Luce! Same name as Lucy, just different language. 😂
I genuinely can't wrap my head around people just denying any amount of fantasy for themselves and others, or acting like someone's character has to be a carbon copy of their personal views or physical traits. I'm an atheist myself, getting bent out of shape over other peoples' religions or the fictional religions in a tabletop game is pointless. If no one's hurting or harassing each other, just have fun ffs.
I can’t either. The best part about D&D is you get to be whatever you want. I wouldn’t want to be me in a fantasy world because I’d be a bad fit 🤣
Because you're not a Reddit Atheist who lives and breaths hatred. You're a legit atheist who wants their curiosity sated through questions. And if there is legit proof of divine existences, you'd accept it. She wouldn't. She wants to have a reason to despise others. She wants problems, no solutions.
Honestly? This right here. I'm culturally Christian but personally agnostic, and I don't grudge anyone their choice of religion as long as they don't try to shove it down my damn throat like some politicians like to do. And fictional religions? I have played clerics before, and I'd like to play a paladin someday.
I’ll say this as someone who is a very faith-filled Christian, I’ve experienced militant atheists like this woman, and I’ve experienced more cerebral atheists. I’ve also experienced extreme Christians who would think pretending to be a follower of a fictional God in DND is satanic. I know because I love playing paladins (which are the best class and I will not be taking counter arguments today) and I often choose Bahamut as a deity. I’ve gotten flack from both extremes, but we shouldn’t confuse the people with the worldviews that they proclaim to represent.
As a side note, as a follower of Christ, if anyone wants to ask questions or debate with me, I’d thoroughly enjoy that! As long as we are both coming at it in good-faith (no pun intended).
i am an atheist and anti theist and OBVIOUSLY my first DND character was a Lizardmen chleric with "Semuanya cares not" as his warcry!
Idk man i feel like all of these people are incredibly passive.
if i was DM i would have have that chicks character struck down by lightning. i'd call it divine intervention
Honestly, that would have been pretty funny if Bahamut smited her for questioning his champion’s faith.
Naw when she's no longer in the group, DM takes over the character and she gets formed to become a cleric who ends up staying behind because of her new calling lol.
Unfortunatly this all to common. People are so desperate to have other people to play with that they are willing to tolerate the players BS.
@@GuciomI also think it's just decency that overrides recognizing a person like Lucy has issues and just isn't a good fit for the game. They hear she's been mistreated, so they take her word for it and are reluctant to reject her. Fortunately for them, she did the rejecting.
I saw this story on Den of the Drake a couple of years ago and it helped me feel a lot better. I'm Christian like OP and I was harassed for my beliefs and it really got to me and it still affects me to this day years later.
It wasn't "You're an idiot for believing in God", like in this story, it was, "You're a horrible bigoted human being who hates every single person of this one specific group and you want to see them all removed from the earth!" when I never said anything whatsoever to that effect. I even said that if I were to see someone of that one specific group being beaten up and kicked while they're down, I would come to their rescue and help them up and that I accepted them as my brothers and sisters in Christ.
"What about Non-Binary People? Why couldn't you say siblings instead?" Yes, that was their response and I lost my patience then and there and called them out on their bull.
Satan will have his way with the earth for a while, but we know who wins in the end.
That said, I wish there was a way to reach more people before that time comes.
@@firenze6478Amen
Yeah man, so many people have an immensly twisted view of our faith. Its quite frustrating, but I mean the book says it'll happen so we shouldnt be suprised.
It also helps when you realize that 90% of the time they're trying to accuse you of the things that they do to try and feel better about it
It's quite simple, as I see it. Religion, to me, is just another set of rules. Be a certain way, act a certain way, or be some measure of damned.
Some of these rules can be quite arbitrary. Don't eat certain meat. Don't eat at a certain time. Don't love certain people. Don't marry outside your faith. Make an honest and earnest attempt to make those who do not believe, believe.
I prefer to be unencumbered by these things, you understand.
Now, I'll not disparage anyone who wishes to adhere to such doctrines. Unless I see anyone doing anything too extreme as a result, of course. And I am sorry to hear of your being harrassed for it.
Now, I do have to give you my perspective, however.
To the ones who expect everyone else to adhere to their code. I have neither the patience nor inclination to appease the doctrine of every religion out there, and so I find those who expect it done for theirs, by everyone, quite tedious. And the idea that certain people seem to think that since they believe in a god, they gain the omniscience of one. But that's another matter entirely.
@@Cantripping Talking about eating certain meat reminded me of something else he said.
When I said it was against my religion (Christianity), he said I was being a fool for quote,
"Following an old dusty book written by a bunch of old guys that prohibits eating pork and shellfish"
unquote
Not eating Pork and Shellfish is a JEWISH thing, not a Christian thing, and one of the reasons Jews are forbidden from eating those things apart from it being a condition of God's Covenant to his chosen people is because if you try to eat one of those things in that time period where properly preparing food and medicine wasn't a thing yet, you'd get sick and die!
I never realized how much babysitting a DM does.
Honestly it does feel like that sometimes.
I was lucky where my core group got along well and it didn’t feel like a chore to get everyone together and play.
Mathew 27:37-39 "Love thy neighbor as thyself". OP did this perfectly!
This! Can we all agree this guy was a great example of a good Christian?
8:24 I was a smug atheist too at one time (not proud of that one, but we've all been rebelious teenagers).
But this is a lack of respect for the player, I would probably have fuck off right about that moment. Nothing good will come of playing with this kind of people.
At least you came to realize that and grew as a person, maybe Lucy will too or maybe not but I'll choose the side of positivity simply because I want to believe in people being mostly good.
Yeah tbh it wouldn't have even gotten to this point with me, I'd have left after the DM first told me Lucy said I attacked her. DnD takes WAY too much time to be dealing with that shit.
This. Even some smug atheists know how to play nice.
Thank you for improving, God knows we need more people to be like you
You know it’s gonna be a fun time when someone’s initial and immediate response is to hound another player OOC about their faith, and then don’t understand the intricacies despite asking for them.
Would be intresting to see lucy reaction to a dnd campaign about taking down an evil cult who is trying to remove all gods from the world, (whoch would destabilize magic and the fabric of plane)
Since Lucy comes across more of an anti-theist than anything else, her self-insert character might join the cult!
>party player hates religious people
>makes rouge that hates religious people
>Christian player
>makes Paladin like a chad
5 minutes in and the campaign is DoA.
I like the part where they are obsessed with being anti relegion but dont know what denomination means. Thats like loving cars but not knowing what a spark plug is.
More so, not knowing what "model" means.
The irony of an anti-religious person behaving much more like a fanatic than most religious people.
At this point, it won't be a stretch to call this a cult, with how extreme those people act!
And without irony, you just generalize the whole group, just like Lucy did.
@@eddyeldridge7427he meant reddit aethists who indeed act like cultists. I’m currently into wheel of time and the conversations are swarmed with people using every opportunities to Christian bash and take conversations completely off topic to hate on others. Despite the fact that the writer himself was a Christian.
Reddit aethists are real, and are indeed a cult that major corporations allow to be as rude as possible and its about time they get called out for their hatefulness.
Again, not calling out all aethists
And that's what we call cultural Christianity. That's what happens when someone says they're against an institution, but they don't dismantle what's bad about it.
@@eddyeldridge7427 There are non-religious cults, dork.
@@etcetera1995
Doesn't address what I said, dork.
The good old blame everything on religions teenager view.
Sadly it’s common among adult redditors too
Oh boy do i remember that cringy phase
I've been there. Not fun.
Hating on someone or something is such a waste of energy.
Atheists and vegans are both just horrible pains in the butt to deal with. And I'm willing to bet this chick wouldn't have been so vocal had the dude been Muslim or literally anything but what he is. She's just another self righteous bigot that pretends they're not because they're hating the "right thing" to hate.
@@Sinebeast that's why I refuse to like or even truly debate religion or politics as both in my mind equal to suffering on all ends and I don't like it
People who are unable to separate real life experiences from a literal game of fantasy and make believe with an entirely different set of rules that govern its reality fascinate me. I'm not religious at all, but at this very moment I'm playing a Fighter with a religious background who is going through a religious awakening and is well on the road to becoming a Paladin. Paladins are cool, it feels like the natural progression to my character, and even if i don't particularly believe in any real higher power, they definitely exist in D&D and nothing's going to stop me from being faithful to the setting and playing it straight
I wonder if the people who play D&D just to enact their own fantasies project that on to others, and that's why they can't understand when a character is different to its player.
I do notice there are some players who want to play a self insert and then kind of apply that standard to everyone else too. I think that is why the genre of Isekai really has taken off because it’s a situation where it’s a fun new fantasy world to explore but the protagonist is someone who could be you given the circumstances. So when players treat it like their own chance at an Isekai, they get surprised when others aren’t maybe?
@@lootgoblinmarketplace I dont usually make characters to be self inserts, but I do often have an emotion or experience which I wanna express with characters. Something i've experienced and want to further understand ya know?
So Esma's thing is that she had love and then lost it because a witch cursed her to be forever on fire. She lost her love and wants her back. She's also on fire so she can never really find another lover ~~Unless they're resistant to fire I guess~~. I think this can make you play a character a lot more deep and passionately and it can come through as good RP. Because you are also feeling those emotions in some way which your character is experiencing. It is a very fun way to play characters and very introspective. Though dont make it too close to home or make it too clear to the party that this character is essentially a diary lmao.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace I think you're right. When I get to play (mostly DM) I like to play characters that are fairly similar emotionally and morally to me. Thats just my prefrence, not much of an actor and I'm more interested in exploring a version of me in fantastical situations than a stranger I made up if that makes sense. But I still know that the character isnt me, and that other people don't play that way. Stories like these make me really greatful that I've always played with people who have a strong grasp on reality vs fiction. No matter the character they play as
@@lootgoblinmarketplace One of my DMs actually banned isekai style backgrounds for the sole purpose of avoiding self-inserts. It was insanely staggering how many people that left due to that alone! One changed to a different character, but decided to act bummed the entire time because he actually had to play a fantasy character and not a self-insert.
Cant self insert due to usually playing opposite gender. But its alot of fun playing someone you are not and enjoying it
I love that Lucy said it was against OP's religion to believe in pther gods as if OP really though Bahamut was real.
It is actually a reveal on her part.
SHE thinks this is real. And she can't handle it just like she cant handle reality
@@kingcreedo6010 Aside from Lucy's blatant disrespect of her fellow players, I think the core of her problem was she refused to play the game.
@@RanMouri82 She had no intention of playing the game. She wanted a world how she THINKS it should be.
She wants a world just like the one she lives in. A delusional extremely small bubble.
I've not played D&D in a long time. The only thing close to THIS kind of annoyance is knowing my future sister in-law hates Batman, paladins and Jedi. Plays as a chaotic evil druid dark elf evidently, thought about joining the campaign just to be a chaotic good cleric and deny her healing if she's not being good.
She even told me she tried to kill her party's paladin several times for "trying to push her religion on me" which if you know my future sister in-law, pretty much means telling her not to do bad things. She's one of those kinds of far leftists that will brand you as an ist and phone for not believing exactly as she does. Yeah, I should just stay out of that campaign, let her burn her own bridges.
Recently joined a group and was like oh this may be fun and the whole group was just edgy Reddit atheists lol, no nuance at all the bbeg was literally just Christianity not even a dnd religion insert, I was like oh so what is the vibes of the religion and the DM said “ you know Christianity? Yeah just that”. It was rough.
Yeah, when the storytelling is just “imagine [blank] but they are in D&D” I feel like it’s going to be a very polarizing campaign.
@ and yeah I am a Christian and know their have been people that have used religion for bad things. But there are ways to play a campaign with that vibe without bashing actual religious people. But the DM just kinda felt with a lot of what she said like an atheist that been on Reddit too long. Not trying to be mean that’s jut how it felt.
There are ways to bring in religious elements in interesting ways. For example, you could bring in cyclical time from the Vedic Yugas by having the bbeg be a reoccurring force that periodically resets civilization to some base level.
That could be a cool way to address the subject in a roundabout manner
@@whitehawk4099and that would be awesome! I’ve played in campaigns where there is an overbearing religious group. Had a lot of fun but this was just not it.
@@MattyBuilds Oh yeah, that can be pretty bad.
I find that most things can be done well if you have a good enough DM, but it can be difficult.
Like, you could basically just take stories directly from the Bible as long as they were done well and adapted for the format and setting.
You could have the bbeg be some kind of god-king character who is attempting to become a literal god on earth by ascending to the heavens while maintaining a foundation upon the earth below. Which is impossible, as the further you get upward the shakier your ascent becomes, until you eventually come crashing to the ground below. This symbolism could be conveyed by having some reagents he uses to create potions to empower himself which also, if the adventurers research about it, provide a weakness (unbeknownst to him) to some form of damage type. Or the adventurers can poison it directly, or any number of other things.
Just symbolically his attempt to ascend to heaven is let down by earthly failings at the very foundation of the attempt which, although he can try to make up for it by doubling down on it, will only become more and more fatal a flaw.
That could be pretty interesting, but here I'm basically just cribbing from the Tower of Babel for the concept.
The problem here is the doing them well part, because the kinds of people who are going to just take something directly are probably going to be pants at implementing them
Why are people so petty like this? I'm an atheist with a similar bad experience with organized religion but I know better than to attack nice people just because of their affiliation. There are so many nice people out there and labels often just get in the way.
Yeah, it is very sad to see. I will always feel bad for people who had bible thumping parents or family members. D&D was one of the games you couldn’t play in that kind of household, which makes it sad to see people act this way and be petty to someone who is just trying to have fun and experience D&D with friends.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace It was truly sad as it could have been a good roleplaying opportunity if Lucy was willing to see the common good. I believe most people want to be good but just have different was of defining good and evil. Typically there is alot of common ground and it makes me very happy when I find that common ground with people. there still could have been a back and forth about beliefs and whether or not religion is better for an induvial (it really depends many factors) while still reaching towards a common goal. However, I am assuming the PCs were playing good or at least neutral characters. Some of my best friends have very different beliefs from me but are just plain good people that I benefit from having in my life being narrowminded would have made my world so much smaller and worse. It seems like Lucy hardly even gave the OP a chance. Also it would be really hard to argue against a person who could actually heal and save people using the power of the good god they followed. Lucy was totally bringing her baggage into the game and not really roleplaying at all.
I want to apologize on behalf of any Christians who have hurt you in any way because of your religion. I ask of you to judge the religion from the Bible rather than the people, because I can assure you that most of these “Christians” attack people without knowing what Jesus taught about opposing views, which is to respectfully disagree and coexist with them.
The „harassment“ probably was just criticism
Out of the names to call her, the guy comes up with Lucy for the Anti-Christian girl.
Baffled that only two others understood that reference and left a Like. Kudos.
I read somewhere once that being an atheist in DND is not saying gods are not real, it's saying they are not worthy of worship. I find this highly interesting as an idea for a character. Too bad Lucy couldn't have gone that route.
Not trying to be mean or correct you, but isnt that an antitheist? If I'm remembering correctly, atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods at all while an antitheist is someone who believes in gods but doesn't worship them.
@NachoBran_CandyCabbage true, if you look at it from this way, there would be no atheists is a typical DND game. Because it's pretty much impossible to say they don't exist when clerics literally have their gods on speed dial. But you're right, the word atheist is probably wrong in the context.
The official lore about that is that atheist in dnd is thinking that the gods are just very powerful people but nothing seperates them from what normal people can achieve and therefore deserve no worship beyond that
@@OdinAUTNot to say it's an impossible concept though, a character that dismisses divine magic as a misunderstood form of magic and maybe has some beef with organized religion might work, if played in the right environment and by the right player.
Atheism in DND is some next level stupidity. Like you have to actively deny these beings of immense power exist and literal miracles they can produce. Now antitheism, that makes sense as the gods can be very undeserving of worship at times.
Gotta hit Lucy with the “Just put the fries in the bag” energy lmao
Not entirely related to this post, but I was talking with one of my coworkers who plays dnd and he said one of the other players in his group was a cleric who was a self described "cool youth pastor" and spent most of the one-shot trying to have a sit down with the brooding rogue and talk about his problems forming friendships. Nothing much came of it since it was a one shot but I just find it to be a funny concept for a religious character.
I have no way of knowing if this is in any way accurate but seeing "cool youth pastor" just made me think of that one dude that made a bible rap
That's...very on point for a youth pastor
@@littlegiantj8761I used to volunteer for youth ministry, and much of what we did was mediate teenage drama!
@@RanMouri82 lol
@@internalforcemy flock is big and it keeps getting bigga, that’s cause Jesus Christ is my…
Not D&D related, but I had a writers’ group “friend” who was convinced I was in a cult because of my particular denomination, but wouldn’t say so to me directly. She actually HAD been in a cult, so maybe she was just extra sensitive to the idea of cults, but it annoyed me she’d tell other people she thought I was a cult member but not talk to me directly. Wasn’t the only thing about her that rubbed me the wrong way, I admit, but what finally made me feel comfortable avoiding her entirely. It’s definitely not just the Christians that get weird around religion. She was some flavor of Wiccan IIRC.
fyi wicca is a cult that was formed by a sex pest
"It's stories like this that make me question if RPG Horror Stories are even real" as someone who's been asked the "are you religious" question by a DM, and then just auto-blocked when I said I was, without even telling me I wasn't a good fit for their game, yeah, stuff like this really happens. Not saying it's only the anti-religious that behave this way. There's plenty of examples of religious people being awful to non-religious people in social settings too, and I've seen plenty of that. Just saying that the story is entirely believable based on my own experiences, too. It's just a shame people can't just share this thing they have in common, of just bonking imaginary monsters, without finding reasons to be jerks to each other.
Lucy sounds like a zealot.
She sounds pretty religious in her anti-religious beliefs. Like she has a lot of faith in her anti religion. 😉
Some people are very religious in their belief of science and atheism. Not just believing in the scientific method, but that we already know all there is to know and can never be mistaken.
Which is hilariously ironic
@@DeltaDanner Funnily enough, thinking we know all there is to know and can never be mistaken is *active disbelief* in the scientific method, or, at the very least, complete ignorance about what the scientific method *is* .
I like playin' an agnostic in games with hard coded pantheons and mythos; mainly as either someone who doesn't really care for the gods (because it tends to be the BG3 situation, where they all kinda just suck to deal with), or as someone who is just completely oblivious.
Play a Cleric that totally just thinks their a really good doctor; and have their deity get really invested in trying to prove they exist to them.
Faith is a requirement to play a cleric in DND. If the person loses their faith, they lose their magical abilities. What you’re describing, however, would be perfect for a celestial warlock.
@@jasonhenry8067 Fun fact... at least in 2nd Ed, one could be an atheist cleric.
Factol Terrance of the Athar basically went "I believe that there must be some Great Unknown that is at least as far beyond these extremely powerful, but non-divine schmucks galled 'gods', as these 'gods' are beyond us".
And through this firm, atheistic faith, he remained able to cast spells at his full power (though, probably wisely, he didn't exactly publicly advertise still having that power).
Planescape was wild, man. 😄
@@Oh_Its_That_Weirdo 3e as well
Well kinda
The Favored Soul class is based on the sorcerer but with only divine magic with yourself being the Source so you don't need faith
I dare someone to try to deny me my Paladins, My Clerics, My evangelistic Bards, My Holy Monks, My Devout Druids, or My Theurgist Wizard. These are some of the most compelling characters that I usually play and opens a butt load of roleplay opportunities.
Screw this chick.
Assholish DM: Sorry, these classes are too broken. I am not gonna let you whreck my campaning!
Ok, Atheist here im absolutely disgusted about thier behavior!
they dont represent us all
Her next character should be a straw man, lol. She's pretty good at making those.
She wanted both OP and his character to be the ridiculous archetypal Christian trope that she developed on her head but got incresingly frustrated and angry with him as she realized he wasn't playing to her own fantasy. She wanted his character to worship God (Christian) in order to roleplay her real-life spite of Christianity.
Saying that non-denominational Christians are the same as Protestants also shows how ignorant she is on the matter.
It very sad because OP is one of the best Christians around but she's too deep in her bigotry to realize
Some people can't just Role Play and just NEED to be "right" or "superior".
I wonder what Lucy would say if she knew that Gary Gygax was a Jehovah's Witness (before he was asked to leave due to his smoking habit and not for any change in his beliefs) and Dave Arneson was a member of The Way International, a rather conservative nondenominational Christian ministry, and was an active missionary? The former D&D artist Larry Elmore has participated in multiple panels on both being Christian and Christianity and Gaming at GenCon for years. Tracy and Laura Hickman, the creators of Dragonlance, are both rather devout members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Tracy has stated that his faith often inspires his work. I doubt our hobby would look anything like it does today without these folks.
the fact DnfreakingD was basically built by mostly people believing in GOD is somehow the most hilarious thing to me
@@theenderdestruction2362Same with Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia. It’s so weird how people of faith create fantastical worlds and stories only for years later people of the same faith to label everything DnD like as satanic. Just nuts..
@@_Xiagax_ Rowling and Harry Potter as well. Turns out when half the western world use to profess to being Christian a lot of big important achievements in literature come from them.
"The wicked flee where none peruse. But the righteous are as bold as lions."
Lucy's behavior is that of a narcissist who thinks even speaking to her while being religious is harassment
“God is fantasy sweetie”
Ugh, I can’t feel the superiority complex through the screen. Lucy genuinely needs Jesus.
@@Silver_Ever
Now you know how everyone else feels when you Christoids get on your soapbox and yap about how we are going to hell. Trust me, the moment you guys stop thumping your chests, no one will bother you.
So ridiculous. One of my players is an atheist playing two very faithful clerics in different campaigns. 'Lucy' is just entitled AF.
I'm an atheist and one of my favorite characters was a cleric of Sune, spreading love and all of the partys gold to those needing it.
@@martinandersson6903 lol "all of the party's gold." I don't know why I cackled at that but here we are.
God isnt real! But he also caused all my problems! But he isnt real!
Ah yes, negative theology, I’ve heard of this.
You believe in those stupid fairytales?
HELP THE FAIRYTALES ARE HURTING ME
Imagine having the arrogance to deny a "God" when you're living in a seemingly infinite universe that we, as humans, know virtually NOTHING about.
As opposed to the humility of claiming to know a god for certain exists AND that the whole universe was created just for you, because you're the most important thing in it?
@@eddyeldridge7427That sounds more like Metaphysical Solipsism than any religion.
@@ArcCaravan
I was describing the abrahamic religions in particular
@@eddyeldridge7427 Last I checked, they don't think the universe was made solely for their own self and are that important compared to everyone else.
@ArcCaravan
Not individually. But they think the only existence higher than humanity is the literal divine. And yes, the universe was made to house humanity, more than anything else.
Being an Atheist in the world of DND sounds funny.
And if you ascend to godhood, you will claim the title "god of nonbelievers"!
@@Onebie "God of Denial"
I’d love to play an atheist character in a one-shot. They’d be the Faerun equivalent of a young earth creationist, except instead of saying “God did it” they’d say “super wizards did it”.
@@sailorsloth8183 Always getting into arguments with your Bane cleric haha
If i remember correctly, in Faerun there exists a section of hell dedicated solely to atheists because in that setting, you go to the domain of the God you most worship after you die. So if you don't worship any, your soul gets snatched up, embedded into a wall, and you suffer for all eternity. It's pretty brutal to be a non believer in a setting where there's a god or god equivalent for practically everything
I mean, as dnd players, can we really be surprised how many mentally of us are mentally ill?
I used to be this kind of militant atheist. You know, the one that believed that religion was a crutch for stupidity and we needed to get rid of it to progress as a species.
Nowadays, I think that there's nothing wrong with finding something to help bring meaning into your life, religion or otherwise, so long as you're not hurting yourself or others.
Precisely, as a Christian I am appalled by others who attack other religions because they’re wrong. Obviously I think you are incorrect, but that doesn’t mean you are evil, you are just trying to answer the question of existence, and the Bible even says to respect other beliefs because they are just trying to rationalize with what they can. I’m sorry for any rudeness from other Christians, we are not supposed to be like that
A good number of the people I knew that were self proclaimed atheist, yet in reality anti-theists, were those inconvenienced by faith as children. They then distorted these memories into misremembered half-forgotten nightmares of oppression.
In their rebellion against a religion foisted upon them they turn "atheism" into their new faith. With tenets, creeds, doctrines, saints, and demons; anti-theism becomes a crusade waged with zealous fervor.
Any not of their doctrines and orthodoxy are blind fools and enemies. They must be saved from their own ignorance and superstition and, if not, ostracized or destroyed.
I feel very sorry for them. Not because I'm a religious man, but because they've closed their minds off to the very concept of reason itself. Again, in my experience, and I don't wish to generalize those that aren't religious as belonging to one group.
I simply have lost a number of good friends over the years to anti-theistic and extreme atheistic philosophy over the years. I miss our debates and conversations, but they don't do that anymore.
Wouldn't homebrewing the Christian God in D&D be more disrespectful than having your pretend character worship a pretend God? Dumb question for the sake of Al Gore's rhythm or something.
Correct. And it is only a sin if you turn your character's religion into your religion.
Remember, Tolkien, the man effectively responsible for D&D, was a devout Christian, and yet he created various gods in his stories.
People don't understand just how op doing that would be
Depends on your thoughts about iconoclasm I suppose.
The easiest answer is, "If you think it's disrespectful and sinful then it is." Suppose you believe that drinking soda is a sin, even if it isn't, but drink soda anyway then it becomes a sin for you, personally. Because even though you have not broken any explicit laws simply by drinking soda, you have in your heart deliberately taken an action that you believe to be sinful which makes that action a sin. Does that make sense?
Now, there are explicit laws against defiling the name of God and in that context using God within a piece of art is something of a gray area. The Eastern Roman Empire had a big controversy about artistic depictions of God and Jesus for a while, some saying that art that sanctifies God is fine while others arguing, "No, any depiction is creating a graven image - which we are not to do" and to this day many Christians have different opinions on that matter.
Not exactly. It just wouldn’t work in a dnd setting because Christianity is all about surrendering your control to God which means your stories agency would be center focused on a plot revolving around faith that he will guide you through the storm, and since dnd is all about characters getting stronger to take on stronger foes, it would just be really hard to write well
@@troybaxtertechnically Eru is the only God in Tolkienverse. The others are more like arc angels.
Huh, that "Lucy" would hate the Dolmenwood setting, monotheistic Pluraltine Church would drive her mad!
Throw her into Warhammer 40k and let her rant about the "evil" that is religion before an Inquisitor and his group...
Lucy sounds worse than the religious people she had a problem with in the past. What a hatchet wound of a person.
I was raised an athiest and came to Christ in my mid 20's. I'm southern Baptist, have degrees in Bible and Missiology, a minor in teacher education and public speaking, and specializations in apologetics and evangelism.
When I sit at that table I am a Lv 1 goblin sorcerer, nothing more nothing less. I'm there to unwind, to seperate myself from the hardships of life for a couple hours. I don't care who you worship, I dont care what part of your body gets stuck where, and I don't care who you vote for. If you want we can have a debate in the parking lot but NOT AT THE TABLE.
I experienced my fair share of Lucys IRL even when I was an Atheist too. This is the first RPG horror story I listened to that doesn’t make me doubt its authenticity. From the first attempt to lie about OP’s PM to the “I dont feel safe” on Discord comment. This is just how some people are.
it sounds like u r no longer atheistic and was curious what changed
"Gods are a fantasy."
"So is this game, what's your point?"
2:25
I get it, I do. But... I wouldn't have sent this message. It feels like its just giving an excuse for the other party to be confrontational about it.
EDIT: And to be clear, the statement itself is fine. It's just that, given what I know of the situation two minutes in so far, Lucy is an instigator. The worst thing you can do is give instigators fuel.
Honestly OP handled himself VERY WELL
I mean I'd be livid if somebody said something like "God is fantasy" in such a disrespectful manner,
Like I have been playing D&D with athiestic/agnostic people and while they know my own beliefs, they remain respectful as I respect them
We have some jokes here and there but they are among friends and never tend to be obnixous
I am floored by your kindness... and idiocy! 😮😉
I would've told the DM after the initial quiz from Lucy that I will not participate with such a freakazoid.
Then came the "haha, just kidding" gaslighting... At that point, my message to the DM would be "Either you drop the maniac who can't separate reality from fantasy, or I'm gone! I got enough crazy to deal with IRL, don't need it in my game!"
Omg the samething happened to my fiancee in a DnD game and it ruined his experience with DnD. Im now trying to get him back into playing with me and my older sister and her friends. Like we play DnD for fantasy to escape reality why pull your real world issues into it?
Sorry to hear that and hope it gets better. As for why anyone would pull their IRL issues into it, well some people do like to live in echo chambers.
Its a serious problem with the normies starting to play. They aren't engaging with it the way the old guard do. They don't compartmentalize
@@JSFal normies might as well make a revamped version of the game of life instead of bringing their drama into a fantasy game like DnD
As an atheist, I apologize on Lucy’s behalf; we do not claim her.
The irony is, Lucy was behaving _exactly_ the way she believes religious people behave.
@@NotMyRealName6 Not even all religious people! But the evangelicals, *for sure*
@zacharysieg2305 My point was she's acting exactly like how _she_ believes all religious people behave.
@@NotMyRealName6 she became what she claimed to hate. Ironic...
@Spartan135 There's atheists, and then there's anti-religion people who fail to realize they've turned not having a religion into a religion in and of itself, thus becoming the very thing they swore to destroy.
The idea of disagreeing with organized religion is silly.
Just because you don’t believe in a religion doesn’t mean nobody else should get to.
I'm actually an atheist myself and Lucy makes me cringe.
If religious people aren't hurting anyone who cares what they believe? I LOTHE Orginiased religion but It's not because they believe in a god. And especially making a big deal about it in the context of a dnd game is just eye-rolling.
"She tried to get DM to give her my name and apartment location."
I very much do not want my address to be made known, especially not to crazy people. I'm really not looking for that kind of trouble. That said, what a stupid idea! OP seems like an outlier, but the overwhelming majority of Christians are rather conservative, and most conservative Christians in the US (I'll use myself as an example) are very strong adherents of the second amendment, and are much more likely to have multiple children that we're very interested in keeping safe. Unexpected angry visits by unstable persons are very unwise.
yeah that would end in only two ways either A. they faf off or B. BANG BANG BANG drop
Honestly I have no idea how I found this channel, but it has provided me with lots of entertainment 😂
I am a religious person myself but I still enjoy playing evil characters that do horrible things... because it's fantasy lol. I don't inject my real world faith into fantasy games unless it fits the setting then I apply parallel logic to the realms settings. I have only one rule when it comes to RL religion and politics in games and friend circles, "Don't rag on my beliefs and I won't rag on your lack of". Lucy however is the kind of person that there is no middle ground it's their way or the highway and sister the on ramp is right over there lol.
Secular Humanist here playing a very devout Aasimar Cleric who is the half angelic daughter of an Angel, (my choice) and the choosen one of her faith (gm's choice).
My character's religion is central to her. But it has no bearing on how I run my life.
3:09 I think she's just not emotionally stable enough in general oml
OP humored this lady way more than I would have. I'd just say it's none of her business and leave it at that
As someone is who is mostly against religion as a whole and thinks it should be left in the past, Lucy can kick rocks. Being that much of an asshole and blatantly passing on a false story is childish and ridiculous.
She does more damage to her cause than what she "fights" against.
"lol what's that" when hearing someone's non-denominational lmfao...just shut up
I remember a campaign I did where a religious friend of mine played as a cleric for the Christian God and got my character baptized because I lost a duel and was a tiefling. It was hilarious. I was ok with it of course. If I wasn’t, it wouldn’t have happened
"Religious people aren't developed enough to question their superiors"
Tell that to Martin Luther or Galileo, ohh and also tell me if you have received any evidence for the lack of a God that didn't come from a superior, and did you question the stuff that did? In fact I'd be surprised if you belief that religious people aren't developed enough to question their superiors wasn't handed down to you be some superior
I don't care teo figs about your beliefs, sexuality or anything like that, but I will fight you tooth and nail if you start making claims like that
Amen.
These are often the same people who try and brand religion as anti-science while ignorning that the idea of science as we understand it comes from the Christian tradition. They totally do get fed their lines by superiours who just want attention and to spread hate.
I have a feeling lucy was never treated poorly by religious people, she just wanted to be
She was probably just encouraged to not make poor descions that would make her feel good right now a couple of times. Seems like that's what i see most the time.
@JSFal what are you even saying? not make poor designs that would make her feel good? how does that even apply?
@@PudgySasquatch yeah, not super clear. Let me try again.
What I see a lot from people who end up like Lucy is that they started making descions based off instant gratifcation at the expense of long term happiness or positive results. Religion is highly focused on disuading people from that. So someone religious probably gave her advice against whatever it was, drugs, smoking, casual intamacy ect. And she decided that was too strict and she was gonna live her own life and not by some church's rules and yada yada ya. I think every person I've met who claims poor treatment from religous people has basicaly that story. Half the time it's their family who still loves and supports them regardless of their beliefs. but the person despises the idea that there are standards that can be applied to them or that some choices are better than others. So they say religious people treat them poorly.
Lot longer but hopefully makes more sense
@JSFal that makes more sense xD yeah I think that's what this was she seems like she turns anything she doesn't want to hear into a personal attack because she can't take criticism, so being told once by someone to do something as simple as slow down on spending probably set her off, and she twisted it into something horrific when re-telling the story
i am an atheist and I love playing clerics. For me, it's as absurd being a theist in the real world as being an atheist in a world were it's obvious patent and demonstrable gods exist. Because for me it's about to act logical in and with the world you are roleplaying in. I really love the lines about atheists that for instance Terry Prattchet has in his Discworld books, for instance. Trying to push stuff from the real world into a fantasy world with its own rules and 'reality' is just as stupid as... doing exactly the opposite thing. Just imagine going around talking about your God of Justice. Or the Force, for a more relatable experience (and yeah, I know some idiots do exactly that, and this is the reason they are idiots).
Fanatical atheists do be like that.
I once played a barbairan who was so dumb he couldn't read or write but he was a savant at quilting. Dude could quilt with the finest fabrics and even made quilts for royalty. It was so much fun!
Unfortunately, I can attest that yes there are definitely people that are this batshit in the world.
It is true some people use their religion not to enlighten others but as a stick to hit others with and vex them. But it is also true many anti-religious people use their non-belief for the same purpose. Lucy is the sort that even if she was religious she would be a jerk about it. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Even if you don't believe that phrase is of divine origin you cannot rationally claim it is not also basic common sense. That is how you should treat yer fellow players.
Well said
Imagine being a religious nut as an anti-religous person, absolutely insane
Not saying that this didn't happen, but this is not normal behavior for an atheist. Idk what the heck is going on with her, but this behavior is unacceptable.
Yeah, I wouldn’t consider this normal behavior.
8:42 Gotta love how Lucy accused OP of “attacking her” five seconds after she basically implied he was too stupid to be able to tell if someone was lying to him
6:15 Reminds me many years ago where I put a video out being pretty open about my faith and some dude comes into my comments “You call yourself a Christian but you play games where you kill stuff you “f slur”
Ok being a Christian doesn’t mean you can’t participate in fantasy or games where combat/death is present. I guess while we’re at it, Christians can’t watch movies with killing, can’t read books where the protagonist kills for any reason, etc etc. The mental gymnastics of theophobic is just astounding. It just becomes a game to them, “how do I use this persons faith against them to make them look stupid”
She needs to be locked up. Sounds like she's willing to go to VERY concerning extremes and lies in order to victimize someone (and potentially threaten their safety, if the address inquiry is the red flag I think it is). This sounds like the bio of those people you hear about in true crime podcasts.
The only thing I I don't allow to players is to create a character with too many traits that come from them. After years of doing that I made that same mistake almost the first time I was not the DM 😂
painfully cringey story of immature players aside, (i say that as a plural because the DM was coddling the problem player), as an atheist DM I despise running or homebrewing evil religions/organizations. I undestand that most if not all fantasy settings will have some evil gods with some faithful servants, but I always found it more interesting to focus on the good deities worshipped by the players and/or the locals.
I think the one time I ever portrayed an evil cult, was to satirize the role of evil cults in DnD rather than a "this is my take on IRL religion"
Love ya goblin! I'm a Christian dnd player too
gonna guess how this started. and do a play by play
DM more then likely made off hand comment that one person they play with is a Christian but did not tell Lucy which made her run around the group hunting down which one It was so she could harass em.
The assumption Lucy made was since her and the DM where discord server friends that she would let her act like a ass but that did not fly.
After lying to DM and getting caught she more then likely actually got chewed out and made a stupid excuse. She was pissed that her plan to have the DM mad at op failed and decided to do the normal passive aggressive none sense with the character sheet.
After this she goes the whole pressing buttons route on op more then likely assume the rest of the party cause they did not confirm to be religious would back her up or find It funny. When they just wanna play the fliping game.
Most of her fighting with op is the usually attempts to gaslight people and basically drain their willpower til she gets what she wants stuff.
When we get to when she leaves and whine at another discord, It was more then likely blackmail vs the DM. Since she try to paint op as the villain in her fake version of events and the DM let op do It. This was a clear "I gave you enough wiggle room If you bend the knee I'll make It go away" tactic.
Moral of the story..If people show signs like this..don't play with em.
"What is this, r/atheism?"
I had so much to say but this one line summarizes it more than anything. Lucy literally went out of her way to pick fights with OP when he specifically said that he doesn't even go to church.
If anything this girl proved demonic possion is real😂
I actually had something similar but from the flip side of things. Had a party member who was a paladin ripped straight from Warhammer 40k. Like shouting at every opportunity about the God Emperor, however, I talked with the player of the character and we made it into a hilarious in joke of my sorcerer playing into the whole thing and convincing the paladin to tone it down using my high charisma. Basically we flavored it as my character lying his ass off convincing the Paladin that he was a devotee just like him hut in order to accomplish our holy mission we had to be covert, even if it meant contorting with heretics. I convinced the Paladin that I was a grand inquisitor who used magic and heretical means to further the cause while remaining pure
"I don't feel safe right now."
There are phrases that can be said in specific situations that tell you everything you need to know about a person.
I'm an athiest, but playing religious characters are some of my favorite gaming experiences. Cleric has been my favorite D&D class since 2e and I love angels as supernatural beings. Just because I don't believe something in real life doesn't mean I can't enjoy the idea of it in fiction/fantasy.
I'm personally Christian leaning agnostic. Lots of religions claim they have the truth and have what they claim is proof. I'll just try and not be a total ass and live a good life. No reason to see who is correct early after all :) And yeah, Lucy was not able to handle things and separate the game from life. A shame, but thankfully everyone else still had a good time.