A note about sinched loops: loops 1 sets the basic loop length, which then you may multiply for loop2 , 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, etc.... But: If you set set loop2 to be 2 multiples of loop1, you can either record loop2 untill the 2 multiples are full, OR while recording loop2 you can push play or overdub before the end of the first measure/multiple. This means that the Infinity closes the loop before the 2 multiples of loop1, so that now both loops are in sync and have the SAME length! Of course this Infinity trick works with any multiples (if you set to 4x, this mean your loop2 can be 1x, 2x, 3x, or 4x the length of loop1, depending when you decide to stop the recording process).
What is the relationship between Loop1 and 2? Are the chord progressions the same length? If so you might need to actually record the chord progression 5 times for each loop and have it switch directly rather than switch at the end of a loop cycle.
I am not aware of a way to have this extended overdub on a single Loop. The Sync Multi is exclusively the relationship between the two Loops. This means a single Loop would need to be as long as its longest overdub.
I first modded the Volca Sample as shown here: instagram.com/p/BTSQ7JCgIDu/ Then I created a 3mm TRS to Midi 5-pin cable. I had heard that the cables commonly available have the wrong pin mapping. I don’t remember the pin mapping but at the time I was able to find a pin diagram online somewhere. Good luck.
Love the music and the review this is exactly what I was looking for as a review. Working with a cello and a rd8 drum machine and synths with ditto x4 and yes it does not stay on with the clock. I end up just recording the drums in the loop and turning down the volume on the rd8. I think I may break down and buy the pigtronix.
I did some research and experimenting and Varispeed seems to be the only one that applies to both loops. Everything else, including Aging, Reverse, Stutter, Volume, apply to the Armed Loop only. The only one I use with any regularity is Aging and that only applies to the Armed Loop when it is Overdubbing. Thanks for watching.
Really like your playing and explanation. I tried the pigtronix. It really knocked down the signal on my pedal board. Then when I increase the playback volume it introduced a fair noise floor. Any advice there? Thx much!
Hi Neal, I haven’t had the same experience as you. Hopefully that is good news as it suggests that it isn’t normal. From a troubleshooting perspective, I would try it isolated on its own Pigtronix power supply. If it still behaves that way when it’s the only pedal in your signal chain and it’s plugged directly into the wall then I would contact Pigtronix about it. They’ve been super helpful and responsive when I’ve contacted them about my Echolution delay pedal. Best of luck.
@@Darmoosh27 Hi there. No, I decided it to just sell it and go to a simpler looper alternative altogether. So it could be that it was resolvable, or could have been addressed by Pigtronix, I just sent went a different route.
Former Ditto X4 owner here; stay away from it, there are known issues with the memory card and self-bricking accounts way more common that you would expect for a pedal of that cost. Save yourself the heartache and get the pigtronix.
Thanks for sharing and joining the conversation. I have owned three T.C. Electronics pedals and I will never buy another one, especially if it has TonePrint. It’s generally better to spend 50% more on a pedal from another manufacturer.
Great info... thanks, I still have a bricked voicelive3 that I'm not keen on getting repaired out of warranty. I will never buy another TC Helicon thingy again, and recommend anybody to not risk getting on stage with a voicelive or the like and having it not work, thanks a sh*tload TC Helicon for the most unreliable products on the planet! I didn't know that TC Electronics stuff had the problems... good to know as I was about to to pick up a Ditto x4, halfheartedly sure, but again, thanks for the warning!
Just adding my 2 cents here: I've had exactly the same experience. So disappointed in TC Electronic/Helicon products. All 4 pieces of my gear (Ditto X4, Voicesolo FX150, Harmony Singer, and Brainwaves) have had some sort of quality control issue. Not trying to bash TC Electronic, just trying to save fellow musicians some money and frustration.
To the best of my knowledge the X4 only supports Midi Clock and it doesn’t support it very well either. The Infinity Looper is the most feature rich pedal-format looper I know of.
Surprised to hear you say you updated your Boss 20xl to the Boss 30, which you say ; “was really just incrementally better in that it had a volume for each loop” (2.30) The Boss RC30xl was a whole lot better. It featured TWO loops where the RC20 had only one and I can’t see how you could have missed that. Back in early 2009 I went to play at an open mike in a pub on the Essex Road in North London. One of the other acts that night was a young ginger haired kid called ED Sheeran. After he had played I chatted to him at the bar and he told me he was using a Boss RC20, which inspired me to buy one myself. Ed played a song that night called “The City” and you can still see the video on here, it’s an excellent example of how to get around the limitations of using a ‘single loop’ looper as a performance tool. I swear that’s the same green T shirt he was wearing that night as well, but of course we all have to start somewhere. A while later my mate lent me an RC30 for a few days but I didn’t get on with it. I couldn’t get it to loop in series which was a massive disappointment, but perhaps I missed something. There is however a great demo for the RC30 on here called "Boss RC30 - how to use a loop pedal properly". Its worth a look just to figure how he manages to get all those layers in. Anyway, agree with all the other points you make on the Pigtrronix, great demo for a great looper.
Thanks for the comment. The Boss looper pedals are really good. Of all the loopers I’ve owned since the mid-90’s the Pigtronix is the one that I have to think about the least. It just seems to work as I expect it to. The other loopers were more difficult for me in regards to getting the loop to close on time. I don’t know exactly why, but the Pigtronix just seems to get out of the way more than other loopers. It also has the most configurability, including Midi configuration, than any other looper pedal I’ve tried.
@@ChasingtheTwist I’ve had the Pictronix Infinity lying around for a while now but I haven’t had much time to play with it so far (but demos like yours are both a help and an inspiration). Most of the time I use a Boss RC3. I don’t like the ‘double stomp’ stop but I use a cheap little Mosky tap switch on a patch lead into the control input so it stops with a single stomp (the Boss control switch is silly money, it uses batteries and it's massive compared to the Mosky). All the same, doing verse/chorus with the ‘two loops’ Pigtronix is a luxury I didn’t have with the Boss. I've since been told you can but you have to tinker with the settings. and that sounds like too much aggro. Were you able to do verse/chorus with the RC30?
I could but it took a lot of quick stomping. I would have to double stomp on beat 4, for example, on one loop so that I could start the second loop on the down beat. If it was an option to have one automatically stop when the other started I never realized it. If you need more than one loop, then the Pigtronix is the best option. At least in a pedal format.
@@ChasingtheTwist That was exactly my experience with the RC30. There’s no (obvious) way to start one loop when you stop the other and it beats me why Boss should have left out such an essential and useable option. What’s the point of having two loops if you can’t separate them? You could argue that the Boss RC300 is “the best option” for verse/chorus. It has no less than three loops and all kinds of options for linking them together including series and/or parallel, but I simply don’t have enough room to carry an aircraft carrier around in my gig bag. So in the end I have to agree with you, the Pigtronix has to be the best ‘multi loop’ option available today, and I was lucky enough to have found one at a bargain price on eBay. LOL Anyway, thanx for a well thought out ‘comparison’ video, good luck and happy looping.
One final thing, you say you've used a Boss RC30 so you’ll know your way around it. If you could get hold of one just for long enough to do another demo, I’m sure there would be an awful lot of demand for a similar ‘comparison’ video putting the Boss against the Pigtronix. While the Pigtronix has several clear and obvious advantages, the Boss does have one big plus, which is the fact that it’ll cost you less than half the price. That might be why the Boss RC30 is so popular.
So loopers? U still riding that sled? (me actin' cool) sorry....Anyway, just checking around as I'm looking for a new looper...So far I'm liking the boss rc500 and the rc600....They make sense and they don't stress my constitution....Went from cool to dork in one post but there ya go.
Yes, I still loop and I still like the Pigtronix. I also have a Montreal Assembly Count to 5 for more weird looping. I haven’t used the newest version of the Boss pedals nor the newest version of Pigtronix. Best of luck.
Comparison starts at 3:25
🙏🏻
A note about sinched loops: loops 1 sets the basic loop length, which then you may multiply for loop2 , 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, etc.... But: If you set set loop2 to be 2 multiples of loop1, you can either record loop2 untill the 2 multiples are full, OR while recording loop2 you can push play or overdub before the end of the first measure/multiple. This means that the Infinity closes the loop before the 2 multiples of loop1, so that now both loops are in sync and have the SAME length! Of course this Infinity trick works with any multiples (if you set to 4x, this mean your loop2 can be 1x, 2x, 3x, or 4x the length of loop1, depending when you decide to stop the recording process).
What is the relationship between Loop1 and 2? Are the chord progressions the same length? If so you might need to actually record the chord progression 5 times for each loop and have it switch directly rather than switch at the end of a loop cycle.
I am not aware of a way to have this extended overdub on a single Loop. The Sync Multi is exclusively the relationship between the two Loops. This means a single Loop would need to be as long as its longest overdub.
Good to know. Exactly what I was wondering as I’m trying to imagine the workflow of various loopers to make a decision.
Exactly what I needed to know. I'm planning to use MIDI with this and you convinced me to go with the Pigtronix.
Happy to help. It is the better choice for using with Midi, no question. Good luck.
@@ChasingtheTwist How did you sync the Volca Sample to the Infinity Looper? Did you use a 1/8th inch to MIDI cable?
I first modded the Volca Sample as shown here:
instagram.com/p/BTSQ7JCgIDu/
Then I created a 3mm TRS to Midi 5-pin cable. I had heard that the cables commonly available have the wrong pin mapping. I don’t remember the pin mapping but at the time I was able to find a pin diagram online somewhere. Good luck.
Love the music and the review this is exactly what I was looking for as a review. Working with a cello and a rd8 drum machine and synths with ditto x4 and yes it does not stay on with the clock. I end up just recording the drums in the loop and turning down the volume on the rd8. I think I may break down and buy the pigtronix.
Good review - it's those details that only really figure out after a week or two of using a pedal
Hi can you pls clarify when you said about the pigtronix only listening for the downbeat and not the start/stop signal?
Thanks
thank you
nice demo
Thanks
on the infinity looper can the fx be applied to single loops or does it effect both loops like with the ditto?
I did some research and experimenting and Varispeed seems to be the only one that applies to both loops. Everything else, including Aging, Reverse, Stutter, Volume, apply to the Armed Loop only. The only one I use with any regularity is Aging and that only applies to the Armed Loop when it is Overdubbing. Thanks for watching.
@@ChasingtheTwist great! thanks for the answer
This was helpful, thanks dude.
Thanks you helped me
Thanks for watching. Glad it was helpful.
Really like your playing and explanation. I tried the pigtronix. It really knocked down the signal on my pedal board. Then when I increase the playback volume it introduced a fair noise floor. Any advice there? Thx much!
Hi Neal, I haven’t had the same experience as you. Hopefully that is good news as it suggests that it isn’t normal.
From a troubleshooting perspective, I would try it isolated on its own Pigtronix power supply. If it still behaves that way when it’s the only pedal in your signal chain and it’s plugged directly into the wall then I would contact Pigtronix about it. They’ve been super helpful and responsive when I’ve contacted them about my Echolution delay pedal.
Best of luck.
Will do - happy that you don’t have the problem. That’s encouraging. Best, Neal
@@nealhartsell3880 hey Neal. Did you ever fix this issue? I’m having the same problem. I even tried two different infinity’s and same problem on both.
@@Darmoosh27 Hi there. No, I decided it to just sell it and go to a simpler looper alternative altogether. So it could be that it was resolvable, or could have been addressed by Pigtronix, I just sent went a different route.
Former Ditto X4 owner here; stay away from it, there are known issues with the memory card and self-bricking accounts way more common that you would expect for a pedal of that cost. Save yourself the heartache and get the pigtronix.
Thanks for sharing and joining the conversation.
I have owned three T.C. Electronics pedals and I will never buy another one, especially if it has TonePrint. It’s generally better to spend 50% more on a pedal from another manufacturer.
Great info... thanks, I still have a bricked voicelive3 that I'm not keen on getting repaired out of warranty. I will never buy another TC Helicon thingy again, and recommend anybody to not risk getting on stage with a voicelive or the like and having it not work, thanks a sh*tload TC Helicon for the most unreliable products on the planet! I didn't know that TC Electronics stuff had the problems... good to know as I was about to to pick up a Ditto x4, halfheartedly sure, but again, thanks for the warning!
I had an X4 also and it started malfunctioning the first day in the way described by hundreds of users. Sad because it's got a good feature set.
I agree. On paper, they are a great value. But they end up disappointing you in the end.
Just adding my 2 cents here: I've had exactly the same experience. So disappointed in TC Electronic/Helicon products. All 4 pieces of my gear (Ditto X4, Voicesolo FX150, Harmony Singer, and Brainwaves) have had some sort of quality control issue. Not trying to bash TC Electronic, just trying to save fellow musicians some money and frustration.
x4 does not accept/respond to midi commands, right? Excellent job, here......as far as midi, the infinity mops the proverbial floor......
To the best of my knowledge the X4 only supports Midi Clock and it doesn’t support it very well either. The Infinity Looper is the most feature rich pedal-format looper I know of.
@@ChasingtheTwist thanks my friend....we are kindred spirits, indeed.....(P.S. subscribe!)
Surprised to hear you say you updated your Boss 20xl to the Boss 30, which you say
;
“was really just incrementally better in that it had a volume for each loop”
(2.30)
The Boss RC30xl was a whole lot better. It featured TWO loops where the RC20 had only one and I can’t see how you could have missed that.
Back in early 2009 I went to play at an open mike in a pub on the Essex Road in North London. One of the other acts that night was a young ginger haired kid called ED Sheeran.
After he had played I chatted to him at the bar and he told me he was using a Boss RC20, which inspired me to buy one myself.
Ed played a song that night called “The City” and you can still see the video on here, it’s an excellent example of how to get around the limitations of using a ‘single loop’ looper as a performance tool.
I swear that’s the same green T shirt he was wearing that night as well, but of course we all have to start somewhere.
A while later my mate lent me an RC30 for a few days but I didn’t get on with it.
I couldn’t get it to loop in series which was a massive disappointment, but perhaps I missed something.
There is however a great demo for the RC30 on here called "Boss RC30 - how to use a loop pedal properly". Its worth a look just to figure how he manages to get all those layers in.
Anyway, agree with all the other points you make on the Pigtrronix, great demo for a great looper.
Thanks for the comment. The Boss looper pedals are really good. Of all the loopers I’ve owned since the mid-90’s the Pigtronix is the one that I have to think about the least. It just seems to work as I expect it to. The other loopers were more difficult for me in regards to getting the loop to close on time. I don’t know exactly why, but the Pigtronix just seems to get out of the way more than other loopers. It also has the most configurability, including Midi configuration, than any other looper pedal I’ve tried.
@@ChasingtheTwist I’ve had the Pictronix Infinity lying around for a while now but I haven’t had much time to play with it so far (but demos like yours are both a help and an inspiration).
Most of the time I use a Boss RC3. I don’t like the ‘double stomp’ stop but I use a cheap little Mosky tap switch on a patch lead into the control input so it stops with a single stomp (the Boss control switch is silly money, it uses batteries and it's massive compared to the Mosky).
All the same, doing verse/chorus with the ‘two loops’ Pigtronix is a luxury I didn’t have with the Boss.
I've since been told you can but you have to tinker with the settings. and that sounds like too much aggro.
Were you able to do verse/chorus with the RC30?
I could but it took a lot of quick stomping. I would have to double stomp on beat 4, for example, on one loop so that I could start the second loop on the down beat.
If it was an option to have one automatically stop when the other started I never realized it.
If you need more than one loop, then the Pigtronix is the best option. At least in a pedal format.
@@ChasingtheTwist That was exactly my experience with the RC30. There’s no (obvious) way to start one loop when you stop the other and it beats me why Boss should have left out such an essential and useable option. What’s the point of having two loops if you can’t separate them?
You could argue that the Boss RC300 is “the best option” for verse/chorus. It has no less than three loops and all kinds of options for linking them together including series and/or parallel, but I simply don’t have enough room to carry an aircraft carrier around in my gig bag.
So in the end I have to agree with you, the Pigtronix has to be the best ‘multi loop’ option available today, and I was lucky enough to have found one at a bargain price on eBay. LOL
Anyway, thanx for a well thought out ‘comparison’ video, good luck and happy looping.
One final thing, you say you've used a Boss RC30 so you’ll know your way around it.
If you could get hold of one just for long enough to do another demo, I’m sure there would be an awful lot of demand for a similar ‘comparison’ video putting the Boss against the Pigtronix.
While the Pigtronix has several clear and obvious advantages, the Boss does have one big plus, which is the fact that it’ll cost you less than half the price.
That might be why the Boss RC30 is so popular.
So loopers? U still riding that sled? (me actin' cool) sorry....Anyway, just checking around as I'm looking for a new looper...So far I'm liking the boss rc500 and the rc600....They make sense and they don't stress my constitution....Went from cool to dork in one post but there ya go.
Yes, I still loop and I still like the Pigtronix. I also have a Montreal Assembly Count to 5 for more weird looping. I haven’t used the newest version of the Boss pedals nor the newest version of Pigtronix. Best of luck.
X4 = one bank, 5 minutes recording time. This makes it a toy.
Not if u make all your music in the moment!
Why is this dude playing bass like an acoustic guitar? Lmao