I am f'n amazed that anyone would use an impact. Seriously, it takes no more than 2 seconds to snug it up spinning the shaft and then torque up. (Quiet at the back Timmy).
@@tommymack3210 Send me one and I will have a go, I still have my dads pump drivers. If you remember them. First time he let me have a go on one, he explained one thing. He put a pipe clip on a some box work and said thats your eye, he wisted the end and the pipe clip was no more to be seen. Rule number one, don't open it in your eye and always store it open. Then he explained why he had two, His boss, my dad the aprentice, had a gig fitting 500+ cinema seats. His boss bought the screwdrivers to speed it up as they ar ratcheting. His boss fitted 2 seats when my dad asked him what to do now after he fitted a row of 20. His boss was then shown how a pump driver works.
@@lewis94uk I could snug anything with an impact, but I wouldn't finish it of with one. Back in the day, my old boss. We had to drive brass plate 3/4" #4s into brass fittings into oak frames that I predriiled and tested. I said set the clutch to no 3 on a bosch drill (24 years ago bosch). He just keep snapping the heads off and whining that even number one torque broke the head. He was gunning them full speed, how is the clutch suposed to compensate for the inertia of the chuck. Some people, even if you bang it into there skull, just do not have the capacity to absorb nor contemplate. They can be "learned" a task but will never understand why the funk why. And thats a good 70% of anyone you work with, talk to or related to. Same goes for the doctor, mp, teacher and everyone. I had to ban my boss from my electicl plane when he was trying to plane a bowed arm on a chair. Clues in the fning name I said. Same with the tablesaw. NFI
I am a massive advocate for this video. I have seen this done multiple times on site. I have even seen that home re wire guy from Scotland post multiple times on linkedin using an impact driver on sockets and consumer units and when I commented saying I believe it’s bad practice, he just said think how much time I have saved. Videos like this are great for young trainees to understand the effects
@John Burns AND... that compression INCREASES on trying to pull the wire out without releasing it. The British electrical industry is arcane in SO many ways, it beggars belief! 🤔😱😱🙄🙄
Use impact on every cu but it never gets near to impact only snugs them up before going back round at the end to loosen then torque to spec with my armeg
I only use the impact on any items that are getting removed and launched. I was taught not to use one for connecting up and I tell the apprentices and trainees the same
I use a Bosch 12v brushless mini impact driver. You can set it on a half power setting. Of course I never ever use it to tighten any terminals in the CU, I don’t let it do 1 or 2 digs, neither do I go over the board with with my torque driver afterwards to make sure everything is where it should be either. Neither would I know that my impact driver doesn’t tighten it to anywhere near 2nm with 1 or 2 digs by the fact that the torque driver still does some turning after the fact, probably. I did once use my big makita to whizz a main switch though. Needless to say that main switch ended up in the bin,
Seems to me that there's a fundamental usability issue with the torques required for a lot of these terminals. It's unreasonable to expect a busy electrician to have to read and set their torque screwdriver for each and every terminal. Similar sized terminals ought to have the same torque setting across all products. Those Wylex terminals with 2Nm on one side and 3Nm the other is nuts. It's bad product design (FWIW I'm an engineer that designs products - not for this industry). Perhaps a rash of RMA returns will bring the manufacturers to their senses....not that I'm advocating the use of impact drivers tho.
Completely agree with this, manufactures need to make a standard (or someone make it for them). I cant see why everything in a domestic fuseboard cant be 3nm for example and every manufacturer has to design their gear around that. Could probably also apply this to sockets at 2nm and switches at 1.5. Every sparks then has 3 fixed torque drivers (1.5, 2 and 3), I bet a fixed torque driver would be less than 25 quid so 75 quid all in to comply fully, they would require calibration less often than adjustable torque drivers and it would get the industry to the point where it is as easy to follow the rules as it is to ignore them! While we're at it standardize the screws also, move everything to torx, T10 for switches, T15 for sockets and T20 for fuse boards, that then also stops people using the wrong fixed torque driver in the wrong device.
Hmm could've SWORN breakers HAD to conform to a specified standard? So, the OBVIOUS questions ARE: 1. WHY is the torque setting NOT put in the standard? It would then be up to the manufacturer to conform NOT the electrician! Saying "Thou shalt" to a manufacturer is MUCH easier to police than tens of thousands of sparkies! 2. Use of Torx screws should ALSO be part of the standard! Why? Because "cam out" is just not a thing with a Torx driver like it is with a Phillips or Pozi. Cam out on either assembly or removal and then reinstating can EASILY kick off the actual torque applied due to unseen/unfelt slippage. The electronic industry switched over to Torx for precision kit years ago ... WHY is the electrical industry so slow to cotton on. 3. Similarly to 1. above, IF the torque too is made part of the relevant standard, not left to manufacturers'' decisions, in addition to both the type and size of the screw, then it can be a simple task to crete a minimal error environment. You could even to go to the extent of making cage clamps appropriately sized for a maximum sized cable on certain MCB types. Although fitting a larger cable than needed could hardly be cause for complaint other than expense!
Funny you should say that, I just put a new board in the morning. First I had to set it to 1.2Nm for the top terminals of the RCBOs and SPD, then 2Nm for the earth and neutral bars, then 2.5Nm for everything else. Having to set the torque not just once, but three times? Absolutely takes the piss. Do these manufacturers have any idea how much time this wastes? Do they really think I have an extra 10seconds to spare for every board change?! Just buy a brand that notes the Nm next to the terminals (Fusebox which I installed this morning does this) and it's no bother at all.
Maybe its time we had a Reg covering Manufacture's must submit Torque settings so a Table in the O.S.G can be produced. As Gary said you can't always see the print on a MCB or RCBO ect.
Have seen the damage caused by impact drivers not just to mcb's but to switches and sockets cover screws too. Plenty of crossed or stripped threads and broken switches etc. I wont use them.
A universal standard that can be adopted and thought from the bottom is what the industry needs. Something along the lines of a set torque setting depending on the size of the screw head, pz1 - 1nm, pz2 - 2nm etc.
The problem with impact drivers is that they are too powerful for torquing up terminal connections like this and it makes me bloody die inside seeing people use them on brand new CU’s. Don’t forget that an impact driver is basically a rotating hammer meant for driving screws and bolts into solid timber. If fixing a plastic object like a patress to a wall with an impact driver is enough to completely shatter the plastic god knows what it does to the screws in mcbs, rcbos etc - they are just not designed for something that powerful. I have seen people who have tapped into Henley blocks, smart meters and other wiring accessories where they have over tightened the screws with impact drivers they have completely snapped of the head of the screws making it an expensive pain in the arse to replace especially when you cannot work on some of the equipment. This is why torque screwdrivers exist to stop muppets like these from damaging the equipment and crushing connections which is still dangerous.
Good guns have settings on them, I can set my gun to switch off at the first bit tension, we'll below torque rating. Also has to be slow speed, screws in boards aren't made for high RPM. I see no issue with using a gun if done correctly, low speed, zero ugga duggas and hand torque to finish
Manufacturers data should be submitted and printed in the OSG of the Regs book. Or and I think this is the better option, has the torque settings standardised for every manufacturer so there can be no confusion.
@@davefiddes I wouldn't mind, if as Gaz said they put it on the device next to the terminals. I had to go online with the part code to find the manufacturer's spec sheet on some 3 pole MCBs the other day because the torque settings for the terminals weren't printed anywhere them.
I am very old fashioned nipping up a terminal.You know when you are biteing the cable/wire then you feel it come on the manual screwing effort.Then just a extra nip for good luck.A quick pull test and your good to move on elsewhere.I honestly think electric drivers can be very usefull but sometimes old school wins.
One thing doing a degree in Mechatronics opened my eyes up to was the Mechanical components of an Electrical Distribution unit. Let’s be real, the amount of electrical installations behind the meter that are not fit for use is scary. I’ve checked boards in the past years gone by for Nm torque settings and no indications could be found on the MCB’s RCBO’s etc. I’ve come across brand name boards with over 3-4 different types of screw heads. An ISO industry standard is needed! The part that’s still hilarious is those circuits like heat pumps/ EV chargers that are constantly seeing high loads which is resulting in expansion and contraction. Go back to those connections over time and you’ll question the best of brands. Then look at an over tightened ferrules connection through thermal imaging under load and be ready for a big eye opener! I see someone been made an example of very soon. Only solution in my opinion is period board inspections every year. It’ll save lives and insurance claims from fires. No brainer.
An impact driver is for freeing up main crankshaft pulley bolts or seized wheel nuts. I've seen 'improvers' using them to put screws into plastic conduit saddles.
The red tail going into our old consumer unit was just sitting in the terminal. The screw had been stripped, presumably by whoever installed the consumer unit over 20 years earlier. The fault was found when we had a smart meter fitted. The man noticed that there was no power; the tail had just slipped out of the connection. It could have killed him. He helpfully called up an electrician who fitted a new main switch that night.
Sorry, but if someone is stupid enough to use an impact on an mcb, let alone an afdd, they shouldn’t be in the job. Maybe doing an IQ test before they do an 18th Edition to ensure their IQ is above 3 🙄
I did 2391 back last year. I was amazed that torque settings were not mentioned in the course once. I did raise the question near the, end but it wasn't really elaborated on.
Looking at the complexity of these devices, I'm surprised their availability hasn't been impacted by the 'chip' shortages, or has it? I also expect that manufacturers will want to start knowing about your skills/qualifications when installing, especially with failures. Will they want to also know about your tools and their calibration? Where there's a significant amount of money installed, I think you're right and they will.
I'm sure that every mechanical engineer that views this will have one question in his mind re: torque settings ... Why dry? I.e. NO lubrication. Normally when setting torque in a.purely mechanical setting it is done with grease or oil or even a specified lubricant. This makes the actual torque applied do its job correctly. If the "correct" torque IS so critical, and I understand why and agree, then surely lubrication should be specified also? Comments? Testing?
Did you have a bet before hand of the number of comments from people saying either... I use an impact driver and never had a problem cause I know how tight to do it, or I just use the impact driver to do the screw up most of the way then do it by hand.. On a serious not how about an impact driver or electric screw driver in an combi drill/impact driver look but with electrotonically settable torque settings, don't know about you but my arm doesnt half get sore after doing up a consumer unit with a torque screw driver..
Those old C50 breakers don't have a bimetallic strip/thermal trip element - They're magnetic trip only. Got a bucket full of the things and an old Crabtree C50 3 phase board still in service.
Had a job where we was changing these boxes the incoming supply and meter is placed ( I don't know what you call them since I'm from Norway, but they are build kinda like these you have in the UK). We were changing them because of rust, something that was a problem on the first gen of these boxes we used. The guy from the DNO told us that we could connect the meter for him, but we needed to use torque driver and 3nm. We did that ofc, but the last one he did himself while waiting on us to finish up so he could turn the power back on. For that one he used a impact driver..
Hi Gary and Gordon, very interesting video and it never ceases to amazing the stupidity of some “tradespersons” when it comes to the use of inappropriate equipment used in final fix. However, do you consider it necessary to torque the terminations in light switch and sockets. I know from experience that most isolators have some indication of torque setting for the incoming snd out going terminals. But having said that there isn’t a clear indication for socket outlets , light switches and luminaries. Well at least on the product, my be on manufactures leaflet of website! What are your thoughts?
It’s a good question - we will raise this with a few manufacturers and see what the response is. We recently installed a Ledvance light fitting and that had torque settings covering almost everything.
My impact driver is reserved for if we're doing loads of strut/tray/trunking. It's rare you need those torques in our game unless you're doing something specialist. I can't imagine you'd need one in a domestic setting at all & if you do, buy a decent combi and stop buying cheap wood screws! Combi drill for mounting enclosures, boards & fixings, never for electrical connections. Although we do have a couple of 3.6v Bosch screwdrivers which are great for taking faceplate screws out on big EICRs. What is worrying is this trend for bringing in new regs to counteract people not doing it right in the first place. If a cowboy wants to use an impact instead of an electrical screwdriver, are they going to follow torque settings? Better training (and I mean skills, not just learning where you've seen that question in the big book and clicking a, b, c or d) and tighter control of 'competent' persons needed now more than ever with the rate of change expected in the next 5 years; domestic 3 phase supply, EVC, electric boilers, air source heat and so on.
I wouldn’t say the fact that devices are becoming more intricate is a bad thing. Just using the impact at all is just completely wrong. Imagine using an impact on that old MCB, its still going to cause damage
❗️I’m not condoning the use of an impact driver ❗️… AND … I do not think the below myself. But I feel many people might watch this and say “yeh but my Dewalt impact driver has three speeds (these are hybrid speed and torque settings) and on the slow setting you can get exceptional control over how tight something is done up. Of course, this is not *calibrated* control, and you still don’t know what torque is being applied. But this video seems to show the results of gunning some poor piece of plastic like a bull in a china shop. Also what about drills with a driver bit: they have far more granular control over torque. ❗️Yes I know this is still not calibrated and - REMINDER - I am definitely in the torque screwdriver camp❗️But I just feel it’s worth some proper A/B testing with more careful use of these power tools vs a torque VDE driver to compare results to see how far out or how close you can get. I feel many people watching this who DO use an impact driver will just say “yeh but I can control it far better than shown here.
An this is why you don't let the mech help you no matter how much of a hurry you're in. When I worked as a cycle tech I had a customer return a bike because "the bolts all broke". It soon became apparent that they'd hammered Allen key ends into torx bolts, then gave them an uggadugga. A few grand down the drain.
In my early days I worked with an ol' boy who used a combi drill-driver set very low (2 or 4) then finished them with a torque driver (he had me to keep passing over the tools). THAT would have been a more valid test than proving an impact, built to drive in 4 inch screws, could break an MCB. Not your best gents!
Tbf it depends on the tool used. Currently have an m12 Fuel surge impact driver. Set on its lowest setting, 2 clicks on an mcb leaves you room to then use a torque screwdriver to take it up to the 2.5nm I agree with the driver tho, that would also be an option for when your doing a 72way board, literally hundreds of screws to tighten up there, easy to run everything up with combi, then give every connection a final check with yhe torque screwdriver
a lot of the apprentices that I'm at college with only use toque drills and have never seen a toque screw driver they say that there boss's insist they use the drill to save time
Hager take the impact driver just fine. I’ve never had an issue and your darn right I’m having all my connections tight. Just having a little bit of knowledge and sense to know how tight to go. Wouldn’t tighten lighting as much as say ring or shower for example. So many boards I go into and you could blow the terminal round it’s that slack. Slack connections, big loads cause heat and fires.
Cant believe, that using an impact driver and Consumer unit, charger installs etc are associated in the same, real world work practices. As my old boss used to say, my flabber is gasted. Just use a drill driver with an adjustable clutch/torque setting. Unless some installers dont know the difference or how to use one......
Well... each to their own nobody in their right mind would let the digger part of impact driver kick in (155nm) impact driver is for forcing a screw into timber etc so if you can just use it with minimum power until you feel the tightness of the screw then it’s fine just go over it with your screwdriver... BUT TAKING THE RISK IS A BIG NO NO but there are people out there who know how to use their hand tools correctly
@@efixx Now that I have recovered from my shock 😢 I hear ya, it's amazing what some folk will do and that's right up the top of stupidity. No offence meant earlier guys 👍👍
It's duggers! Not diggers. Dugger dugger dugger. I'm not being funny but there's NO WAY I'd pay £155 for a single item in a D/B. I dread to think how much one of those brand new 3ph domestic D/B's would cost fully populated 😳
Why anyone would be using an impact gun on a MCB is beyond me, we run heavy duty DC equipment on trains and the M16 nuts/bolts are taken upto 160nm and these MCBs are at best M4 thread
I have seen too many of the younger generation of meter installers using their drills to fit meters and connect the tails, not the same as a impact driver but why cant they use the correct tool !!
I'm not a spark, but it's still hard to believe somebody would do this. But then it's also hard to believe that the spark on the multi million pound refurb on my building where I was employed in property maintenance would turn up "semi incapacitated" from substance abuse, and reverse a lot of earths and neutrals, causing no end of problems. But that happened too...
It is an inappropriate use of a tool. Use a torque driver, designed for the purpose of tightening terminals on switchgear, to the torque tightness specified by the manufacturer.
7:55 - you are giving away some secrets there. Where are these £9 RCBOs!? I'll have to be having words with my wholesaler! Not that it's all about price...
I really can't imagine why people would put an impact driver near a consumer unit. There's very few cars on the road with 150nm on their wheel nuts, let alone on an MCB. My Milwaukee M12 driver is 30nm on max setting and it'll shear the head off machine screws or damage the threads of the screw. Did nobody learn about torque in college or what ?
soooo. . . what about a torque adapter. . . and an impact driver? amazon do some at 2.5Nm if you want to give it a shot 😁 "Individual Easy Torque Adaptor 2.5Nm, Length 59mm"
So many people do exactly what you have shown and have talked to many electricians that think they have a Steve Austin Calibrated arm , 👍hopefully many people will try the correct way “Right is right wrong is know body’s right “ 😀👍 keep talking the torque , may be wholesalers will stop giving replacements MCB out when they see this video
What sort of person thinks an impact driver is the proper way to tighten up an electrical connection? They aren't even the right way to fix a consumer unit to a wall (or at least one clad in plasterboard; it might be OK into a solid wall or a wooden board).
well you clearly cant control and use that impact driver. you can go slow and watch the screw or just use your hearing to when to stop it, just an advice not seconds hammering it.
I hate impact drivers. You have ne feel for it and they just break everything. I prefer to use a drill driver with torque set low to spin it on and finish of with a torque screwdriver
There is a advert were some guy is sitting there and says " My name is #### am a electrition and he stripping PVC PVC twin and earth by pulling and stretching the cpc and then is using a impact driver. What a plonker loads of comments on the add with good and bad feed back.
Honestly. I can not understand why anyone would use a impact driver to tighten terminals ...an SDS hammer drill with bit adapter is a lot better than a poxy impact shriver 💪💪
Honestly do people have no clue how little power is required for 2-3nm. Even th old ball head ratcheting screw drivers give way too much power without even trying.
@@efixx I have seen it. Im a car mechanic and the same problem occurs alot there. People dont realize that we use torque wrenches in order not to over tighten.
I cry every time I see some muppet using one. All those crushed connections will eventually cause resistance and eventually leave to fires or faults. Best to use the proper torque screwdrivers.
Your average cowboy will not give a shiney sh*t about torque settings, just bodge it grab the cash and go but the professional will get it right using the right equipment. But who will the average customer choose ? and remember the good old D.I.Yer " Torque settings ! What are you saying ?"
Your using the impact driver like an absolute amateur, nothing wrong with it if you can actually use power tools just use a bit of finesse not POWER flat out actually use the variable speed.
What kind of freaking moron would use an impact driver for something that doesn't benefith from impacts? Most terminals only require a few Nm of torque.
No competent properly trained electrician uses a impact driver to tighten any terminals. Only the diy brigade and maybe a few gas fitters or plumbers who think they are smart enough to do their own electrics after watching a few you tube videos. Just remember a little knowledge is dangerous. I see it every single day. Clowns who think they can do the electrical work themselves. It’s scary how low standards have gone.
I am f'n amazed that anyone would use an impact. Seriously, it takes no more than 2 seconds to snug it up spinning the shaft and then torque up. (Quiet at the back Timmy).
Speede II my friend. Save work
Sadly you see it a lot on big commercial sites
I guess if you're ripping one out it's probably incidental but using one to assemble is just ludicrous.
@@tommymack3210 Send me one and I will have a go, I still have my dads pump drivers. If you remember them. First time he let me have a go on one, he explained one thing. He put a pipe clip on a some box work and said thats your eye, he wisted the end and the pipe clip was no more to be seen. Rule number one, don't open it in your eye and always store it open. Then he explained why he had two, His boss, my dad the aprentice, had a gig fitting 500+ cinema seats. His boss bought the screwdrivers to speed it up as they ar ratcheting. His boss fitted 2 seats when my dad asked him what to do now after he fitted a row of 20. His boss was then shown how a pump driver works.
@@lewis94uk I could snug anything with an impact, but I wouldn't finish it of with one. Back in the day, my old boss. We had to drive brass plate 3/4" #4s into brass fittings into oak frames that I predriiled and tested. I said set the clutch to no 3 on a bosch drill (24 years ago bosch). He just keep snapping the heads off and whining that even number one torque broke the head. He was gunning them full speed, how is the clutch suposed to compensate for the inertia of the chuck. Some people, even if you bang it into there skull, just do not have the capacity to absorb nor contemplate. They can be "learned" a task but will never understand why the funk why. And thats a good 70% of anyone you work with, talk to or related to. Same goes for the doctor, mp, teacher and everyone. I had to ban my boss from my electicl plane when he was trying to plane a bowed arm on a chair. Clues in the fning name I said. Same with the tablesaw. NFI
I am a massive advocate for this video. I have seen this done multiple times on site. I have even seen that home re wire guy from Scotland post multiple times on linkedin using an impact driver on sockets and consumer units and when I commented saying I believe it’s bad practice, he just said think how much time I have saved. Videos like this are great for young trainees to understand the effects
Yeh home Rewire does it mate
All over his socials
The way manufactures should go is have push fit, or lever Wago type of connectors. They apply the correct torque
@John Burns AND... that compression INCREASES on trying to pull the wire out without releasing it. The British electrical industry is arcane in SO many ways, it beggars belief! 🤔😱😱🙄🙄
They already have this. Seen it demonstrated at the NEC elec live 👍🏽
@@jasonhodges5597
Good news.
@@johnburns4017 until they release the price on them lol
@@O.i5
The price will drop as all take up lever connections. Then no torque screwdrivers.
Use impact on every cu but it never gets near to impact only snugs them up before going back round at the end to loosen then torque to spec with my armeg
I use it to get a hold of the cables, its quicker this way, i don’t over tighten, i go over them with a screwdriver afterwards
Same here saves my wrist in the long run basically the same as those electronic screw drivers
I only use the impact on any items that are getting removed and launched. I was taught not to use one for connecting up and I tell the apprentices and trainees the same
I use a Bosch 12v brushless mini impact driver. You can set it on a half power setting. Of course I never ever use it to tighten any terminals in the CU, I don’t let it do 1 or 2 digs, neither do I go over the board with with my torque driver afterwards to make sure everything is where it should be either. Neither would I know that my impact driver doesn’t tighten it to anywhere near 2nm with 1 or 2 digs by the fact that the torque driver still does some turning after the fact, probably.
I did once use my big makita to whizz a main switch though. Needless to say that main switch ended up in the bin,
Seems to me that there's a fundamental usability issue with the torques required for a lot of these terminals. It's unreasonable to expect a busy electrician to have to read and set their torque screwdriver for each and every terminal. Similar sized terminals ought to have the same torque setting across all products. Those Wylex terminals with 2Nm on one side and 3Nm the other is nuts. It's bad product design (FWIW I'm an engineer that designs products - not for this industry). Perhaps a rash of RMA returns will bring the manufacturers to their senses....not that I'm advocating the use of impact drivers tho.
Completely agree with this, manufactures need to make a standard (or someone make it for them). I cant see why everything in a domestic fuseboard cant be 3nm for example and every manufacturer has to design their gear around that. Could probably also apply this to sockets at 2nm and switches at 1.5. Every sparks then has 3 fixed torque drivers (1.5, 2 and 3), I bet a fixed torque driver would be less than 25 quid so 75 quid all in to comply fully, they would require calibration less often than adjustable torque drivers and it would get the industry to the point where it is as easy to follow the rules as it is to ignore them! While we're at it standardize the screws also, move everything to torx, T10 for switches, T15 for sockets and T20 for fuse boards, that then also stops people using the wrong fixed torque driver in the wrong device.
Hmm could've SWORN breakers HAD to conform to a specified standard? So, the OBVIOUS questions ARE:
1. WHY is the torque setting NOT put in the standard? It would then be up to the manufacturer to conform NOT the electrician! Saying "Thou shalt" to a manufacturer is MUCH easier to police than tens of thousands of sparkies!
2. Use of Torx screws should ALSO be part of the standard! Why? Because "cam out" is just not a thing with a Torx driver like it is with a Phillips or Pozi.
Cam out on either assembly or removal and then reinstating can EASILY kick off the actual torque applied due to unseen/unfelt slippage. The electronic industry switched over to Torx for precision kit years ago ... WHY is the electrical industry so slow to cotton on.
3. Similarly to 1. above, IF the torque too is made part of the relevant standard, not left to manufacturers'' decisions, in addition to both the type and size of the screw, then it can be a simple task to crete a minimal error environment.
You could even to go to the extent of making cage clamps appropriately sized for a maximum sized cable on certain MCB types. Although fitting a larger cable than needed could hardly be cause for complaint other than expense!
Funny you should say that, I just put a new board in the morning. First I had to set it to 1.2Nm for the top terminals of the RCBOs and SPD, then 2Nm for the earth and neutral bars, then 2.5Nm for everything else. Having to set the torque not just once, but three times? Absolutely takes the piss. Do these manufacturers have any idea how much time this wastes?
Do they really think I have an extra 10seconds to spare for every board change?!
Just buy a brand that notes the Nm next to the terminals (Fusebox which I installed this morning does this) and it's no bother at all.
Maybe its time we had a Reg covering Manufacture's must submit Torque settings so a Table in the O.S.G can be produced. As Gary said you can't always see the print on a MCB or RCBO ect.
Have seen the damage caused by impact drivers not just to mcb's but to switches and sockets cover screws too. Plenty of crossed or stripped threads and broken switches etc. I wont use them.
The fact that this is even an issue confirms my view that the term "qualified" electrician is meaningless.
A universal standard that can be adopted and thought from the bottom is what the industry needs.
Something along the lines of a set torque setting depending on the size of the screw head, pz1 - 1nm, pz2 - 2nm etc.
"PCB boards"... So, we're talking Printed Circuit Board boards?
Always nice to hear from pedant's corner! 😂 Fair play though, you got us there. 👍
@@efixx Sorry, i just couldnt resist having a digga or two :D
The problem with impact drivers is that they are too powerful for torquing up terminal connections like this and it makes me bloody die inside seeing people use them on brand new CU’s. Don’t forget that an impact driver is basically a rotating hammer meant for driving screws and bolts into solid timber. If fixing a plastic object like a patress to a wall with an impact driver is enough to completely shatter the plastic god knows what it does to the screws in mcbs, rcbos etc - they are just not designed for something that powerful. I have seen people who have tapped into Henley blocks, smart meters and other wiring accessories where they have over tightened the screws with impact drivers they have completely snapped of the head of the screws making it an expensive pain in the arse to replace especially when you cannot work on some of the equipment. This is why torque screwdrivers exist to stop muppets like these from damaging the equipment and crushing connections which is still dangerous.
Wise words 👍
Good guns have settings on them, I can set my gun to switch off at the first bit tension, we'll below torque rating. Also has to be slow speed, screws in boards aren't made for high RPM.
I see no issue with using a gun if done correctly, low speed, zero ugga duggas and hand torque to finish
Great video Gaz and the other guy 👍🏻
Manufacturers data should be submitted and printed in the OSG of the Regs book. Or and I think this is the better option, has the torque settings standardised for every manufacturer so there can be no confusion.
Agreed. You shouldn't need a dozen different torque settings to install a consumer unit. It's an electrical installation not a spaceship.
@@davefiddes I wouldn't mind, if as Gaz said they put it on the device next to the terminals. I had to go online with the part code to find the manufacturer's spec sheet on some 3 pole MCBs the other day because the torque settings for the terminals weren't printed anywhere them.
Only time you should use impact drivers is for stronger fixings. Absolutely not for fuse boards and accessories
I am very old fashioned nipping up a terminal.You know when you are biteing the cable/wire then you feel it come on the manual screwing effort.Then just a extra nip for good luck.A quick pull test and your good to move on elsewhere.I honestly think electric drivers can be very usefull but sometimes old school wins.
Good to see them "Talking the Torque..."
One thing doing a degree in Mechatronics opened my eyes up to was the Mechanical components of an Electrical Distribution unit. Let’s be real, the amount of electrical installations behind the meter that are not fit for use is scary. I’ve checked boards in the past years gone by for Nm torque settings and no indications could be found on the MCB’s RCBO’s etc. I’ve come across brand name boards with over 3-4 different types of screw heads.
An ISO industry standard is needed! The part that’s still hilarious is those circuits like heat pumps/ EV chargers that are constantly seeing high loads which is resulting in expansion and contraction. Go back to those connections over time and you’ll question the best of brands. Then look at an over tightened ferrules connection through thermal imaging under load and be ready for a big eye opener! I see someone been made an example of very soon.
Only solution in my opinion is period board inspections every year.
It’ll save lives and insurance claims from fires. No brainer.
Sorry to highiack your comment.......I've been looking at the mechatronic course. Any reviews?
An impact driver is for freeing up main crankshaft pulley bolts or seized wheel nuts.
I've seen 'improvers' using them to put screws into plastic conduit saddles.
The red tail going into our old consumer unit was just sitting in the terminal. The screw had been stripped, presumably by whoever installed the consumer unit over 20 years earlier. The fault was found when we had a smart meter fitted. The man noticed that there was no power; the tail had just slipped out of the connection. It could have killed him. He helpfully called up an electrician who fitted a new main switch that night.
Speede II my fellow electricians, makes my day ALOT easier as service electrician.
Sorry, but if someone is stupid enough to use an impact on an mcb, let alone an afdd, they shouldn’t be in the job.
Maybe doing an IQ test before they do an 18th Edition to ensure their IQ is above 3 🙄
I did 2391 back last year. I was amazed that torque settings were not mentioned in the course once. I did raise the question near the, end but it wasn't really elaborated on.
Looking at the complexity of these devices, I'm surprised their availability hasn't been impacted by the 'chip' shortages, or has it? I also expect that manufacturers will want to start knowing about your skills/qualifications when installing, especially with failures. Will they want to also know about your tools and their calibration? Where there's a significant amount of money installed, I think you're right and they will.
Wago is the only way to go regarding consumer units.tails need to be double Allen screws like of the Henley blocks .
Bit of a tongue twister on the middle 😁 like Swiss watch, a swish wash 🤣
Just yanking 😁
I use my impact to loosen/tighten 80% of the way especially when putting bus bars in. And use my screwdriver for the remaining 20%
That is the best click bait I have seen on the channel! 😆
Excellently presented! Really shows what a stupid idea it is!
Thanks 🙏- more torque content on the way!
No Digger Digger,
No Dugga Dugga,
But
Ugga Dugga...
Get it right lads 😂
We are still finding our ways with these new install methods 😂
Dugga dugga... taking an ending out of my mate Martyn at the end i see Brilliant video guys
Stolen with pride
I'm sure that every mechanical engineer that views this will have one question in his mind re: torque settings ... Why dry? I.e. NO lubrication. Normally when setting torque in a.purely mechanical setting it is done with grease or oil or even a specified lubricant. This makes the actual torque applied do its job correctly.
If the "correct" torque IS so critical, and I understand why and agree, then surely lubrication should be specified also?
Comments? Testing?
Did you have a bet before hand of the number of comments from people saying either... I use an impact driver and never had a problem cause I know how tight to do it, or I just use the impact driver to do the screw up most of the way then do it by hand.. On a serious not how about an impact driver or electric screw driver in an combi drill/impact driver look but with electrotonically settable torque settings, don't know about you but my arm doesnt half get sore after doing up a consumer unit with a torque screw driver..
Those old C50 breakers don't have a bimetallic strip/thermal trip element - They're magnetic trip only. Got a bucket full of the things and an old Crabtree C50 3 phase board still in service.
What about a small electric screwdriver with a clutch and max torque of 7Nm for example. Will this work?
Had a job where we was changing these boxes the incoming supply and meter is placed ( I don't know what you call them since I'm from Norway, but they are build kinda like these you have in the UK). We were changing them because of rust, something that was a problem on the first gen of these boxes we used. The guy from the DNO told us that we could connect the meter for him, but we needed to use torque driver and 3nm. We did that ofc, but the last one he did himself while waiting on us to finish up so he could turn the power back on. For that one he used a impact driver..
😮
A silly man.
Was fitting an MCCB the other day, main terminals were 8NM. that was tough on the old wrists..!
Hi Gary and Gordon, very interesting video and it never ceases to amazing the stupidity of some “tradespersons” when it comes to the use of inappropriate equipment used in final fix.
However, do you consider it necessary to torque the terminations in light switch and sockets. I know from experience that most isolators have some indication of torque setting for the incoming snd out going terminals. But having said that there isn’t a clear indication for socket outlets , light switches and luminaries.
Well at least on the product, my be on manufactures leaflet of website!
What are your thoughts?
It’s a good question - we will raise this with a few manufacturers and see what the response is. We recently installed a Ledvance light fitting and that had torque settings covering almost everything.
My impact driver is reserved for if we're doing loads of strut/tray/trunking. It's rare you need those torques in our game unless you're doing something specialist. I can't imagine you'd need one in a domestic setting at all & if you do, buy a decent combi and stop buying cheap wood screws!
Combi drill for mounting enclosures, boards & fixings, never for electrical connections. Although we do have a couple of 3.6v Bosch screwdrivers which are great for taking faceplate screws out on big EICRs.
What is worrying is this trend for bringing in new regs to counteract people not doing it right in the first place. If a cowboy wants to use an impact instead of an electrical screwdriver, are they going to follow torque settings?
Better training (and I mean skills, not just learning where you've seen that question in the big book and clicking a, b, c or d) and tighter control of 'competent' persons needed now more than ever with the rate of change expected in the next 5 years; domestic 3 phase supply, EVC, electric boilers, air source heat and so on.
I wouldn’t say the fact that devices are becoming more intricate is a bad thing. Just using the impact at all is just completely wrong. Imagine using an impact on that old MCB, its still going to cause damage
❗️I’m not condoning the use of an impact driver ❗️… AND … I do not think the below myself. But I feel many people might watch this and say “yeh but my Dewalt impact driver has three speeds (these are hybrid speed and torque settings) and on the slow setting you can get exceptional control over how tight something is done up. Of course, this is not *calibrated* control, and you still don’t know what torque is being applied. But this video seems to show the results of gunning some poor piece of plastic like a bull in a china shop. Also what about drills with a driver bit: they have far more granular control over torque. ❗️Yes I know this is still not calibrated and - REMINDER - I am definitely in the torque screwdriver camp❗️But I just feel it’s worth some proper A/B testing with more careful use of these power tools vs a torque VDE driver to compare results to see how far out or how close you can get. I feel many people watching this who DO use an impact driver will just say “yeh but I can control it far better than shown here.
Is that excellent Talk the Torque poster a one off for this video? Or are you doing a series?
It’s a series we launched with calibrated arm yesterday - th-cam.com/video/LEPZ3Lf9VmA/w-d-xo.html - poster available soon as a sticker also.
An this is why you don't let the mech help you no matter how much of a hurry you're in. When I worked as a cycle tech I had a customer return a bike because "the bolts all broke". It soon became apparent that they'd hammered Allen key ends into torx bolts, then gave them an uggadugga. A few grand down the drain.
Aww Why manufacturers cannot see the put Wago clips for terminals.So terminals already Calabreted. Think would be great Idea.
I meant put Wago clips in consumer unit. No more do torque. Thank you. God bless.
In my early days I worked with an ol' boy who used a combi drill-driver set very low (2 or 4) then finished them with a torque driver (he had me to keep passing over the tools). THAT would have been a more valid test than proving an impact, built to drive in 4 inch screws, could break an MCB. Not your best gents!
Unfortunately lots of installers use impact drivers as we’ve shown. This is part of a series - stay tuned.
Tbf it depends on the tool used. Currently have an m12 Fuel surge impact driver. Set on its lowest setting, 2 clicks on an mcb leaves you room to then use a torque screwdriver to take it up to the 2.5nm
I agree with the driver tho, that would also be an option for when your doing a 72way board, literally hundreds of screws to tighten up there, easy to run everything up with combi, then give every connection a final check with yhe torque screwdriver
Yes a nice 10/12v drill driver set low nicely improves the tedium of Consumer unit replacement. Then torque driver as part of final check.
How about an impact driver which is set to the correct setting ? I for one have thrown my Phillips screwdriver away.
a lot of the apprentices that I'm at college with only use toque drills and have never seen a toque screw driver they say that there boss's insist they use the drill to save time
Hager take the impact driver just fine. I’ve never had an issue and your darn right I’m having all my connections tight. Just having a little bit of knowledge and sense to know how tight to go. Wouldn’t tighten lighting as much as say ring or shower for example. So many boards I go into and you could blow the terminal round it’s that slack. Slack connections, big loads cause heat and fires.
every new build, DB is terminated with an impact. The considerate ones will use 12v
Why are they still using Screws at all...WAGO CU coming???
Cant believe, that using an impact driver and Consumer unit, charger installs etc are associated in the same, real world work practices. As my old boss used to say, my flabber is gasted. Just use a drill driver with an adjustable clutch/torque setting. Unless some installers dont know the difference or how to use one......
Well... each to their own nobody in their right mind would let the digger part of impact driver kick in (155nm) impact driver is for forcing a screw into timber etc so if you can just use it with minimum power until you feel the tightness of the screw then it’s fine just go over it with your screwdriver... BUT TAKING THE RISK IS A BIG NO NO but there are people out there who know how to use their hand tools correctly
Theres something I love about seeing total destruction. Couldn't help but laugh when when i saw the dugga dugga, bugger.
Why the fork would anybody use an impact drill.
I never seen or heard of anybody doing it, I don't believe anybody does.
We don’t make this stuff up - it happens
@@efixx Now that I have recovered from my shock 😢 I hear ya, it's amazing what some folk will do and that's right up the top of stupidity.
No offence meant earlier guys 👍👍
@@jimbanda none taken - we were amazed at what’s actually happening in wild. Let’s hope this series gets folks to rethink.
It's duggers! Not diggers. Dugger dugger dugger.
I'm not being funny but there's NO WAY I'd pay £155 for a single item in a D/B. I dread to think how much one of those brand new 3ph domestic D/B's would cost fully populated 😳
Better get saving for your board swaps booked in for April then... Amendment 3 is making AFDDs compulsory for certain circuits 💰
Why anyone would be using an impact gun on a MCB is beyond me, we run heavy duty DC equipment on trains and the M16 nuts/bolts are taken upto 160nm and these MCBs are at best M4 thread
I have seen too many of the younger generation of meter installers using their drills to fit meters and connect the tails, not the same as a impact driver but why cant they use the correct tool !!
It will only be a matter of time until they bring out a torque setting on the impakkkahs
I'm not a spark, but it's still hard to believe somebody would do this. But then it's also hard to believe that the spark on the multi million pound refurb on my building where I was employed in property maintenance would turn up "semi incapacitated" from substance abuse, and reverse a lot of earths and neutrals, causing no end of problems. But that happened too...
Disturbing 😳
It is an inappropriate use of a tool. Use a torque driver, designed for the purpose of tightening terminals on switchgear, to the torque tightness specified by the manufacturer.
7:55 - you are giving away some secrets there. Where are these £9 RCBOs!? I'll have to be having words with my wholesaler! Not that it's all about price...
I really can't imagine why people would put an impact driver near a consumer unit. There's very few cars on the road with 150nm on their wheel nuts, let alone on an MCB. My Milwaukee M12 driver is 30nm on max setting and it'll shear the head off machine screws or damage the threads of the screw. Did nobody learn about torque in college or what ?
That's why Sparky's have a bag full of screwdrivers
I can not in my right mind imagine anyone using an impact driver on a consumer unit
It happens
It's gonna fuck it up if you impact it that much😂😂
No way.
Cannot believe a impact driver in a consumer unit.
Warning! do not try this at work
As per usual the wrong tool in the wrong hands used in the wrong way.
soooo. . . what about a torque adapter. . . and an impact driver?
amazon do some at 2.5Nm if you want to give it a shot 😁
"Individual Easy Torque Adaptor 2.5Nm, Length 59mm"
They are only good for a few thousand duggas and at £59 it’s cheaper to use a torque driver.
So many people do exactly what you have shown and have talked to many electricians that think they have a Steve Austin Calibrated arm , 👍hopefully many people will try the correct way “Right is right wrong is know body’s right “ 😀👍 keep talking the torque , may be wholesalers will stop giving replacements MCB out when they see this video
We have hopefully shown the calibrated arm isn’t that accurate in yesterdays video - th-cam.com/video/LEPZ3Lf9VmA/w-d-xo.html
Would help if the manufacturers stopped making the terminals with all the strength of mouldy cheese.
What sort of person thinks an impact driver is the proper way to tighten up an electrical connection? They aren't even the right way to fix a consumer unit to a wall (or at least one clad in plasterboard; it might be OK into a solid wall or a wooden board).
Who the feck would even use an impact driver on a consumer unit? A DIY Scaffolder having a bash at changing their CU?
See almost everyone use impact drivers on boards
well you clearly cant control and use that impact driver. you can go slow and watch the screw or just use your hearing to when to stop it, just an advice not seconds hammering it.
Schneider ic60 are up to £75 per rcbo atm bloody rediclous
It’s a painful purchase we have an isobar p in our unit.
@@efixx the p range is awesome mate and now seems to be cheaper than the older stuff
I hate impact drivers. You have ne feel for it and they just break everything. I prefer to use a drill driver with torque set low to spin it on and finish of with a torque screwdriver
There is a advert were some guy is sitting there and says " My name is #### am a electrition and he stripping PVC PVC twin and earth by pulling and stretching the cpc and then is using a impact driver. What a plonker loads of comments on the add with good and bad feed back.
Honestly. I can not understand why anyone would use a impact driver to tighten terminals ...an SDS hammer drill with bit adapter is a lot better than a poxy impact shriver 💪💪
Pneumatic drill adaptor 😂
@@efixx One thing probably stops this happening. With the board proven dead there’d be no power to pump up the air tank.
Are there really people who think an Impact driver is a normal electric screwdriver?
I use an impact driver only to mount a consumer unit.
Honestly do people have no clue how little power is required for 2-3nm. Even th old ball head ratcheting screw drivers give way too much power without even trying.
See our previous video on calibrated arms!
@@efixx I have seen it. Im a car mechanic and the same problem occurs alot there. People dont realize that we use torque wrenches in order not to over tighten.
I have witnesed someone using an impact on a neutral bar and it made me physically cringe
Sadly lots of people use them as standard.
I cry every time I see some muppet using one. All those crushed connections will eventually cause resistance and eventually leave to fires or faults. Best to use the proper torque screwdrivers.
Why do Neutral and earth bars still have screws in UK thats just shocking
🤣🤣🤣
Haven’t you guys got a speed-e 2 or have you given it away in a swap shop?
We have a speed e 2 - it divides the team - th-cam.com/video/EFhMG6-cMv0/w-d-xo.html
@@efixx
Remember it well.
Awesome vid 😂
Would the only way to stop the lazy muppets is go back to just slotted screw’s. It would be too much effort for them to change bits over!
Screwdriver that is all
Вы не тем шуруповертом пользуетесь бош самый нормальный шуруповерт
Your average cowboy will not give a shiney sh*t about torque settings, just bodge it grab the cash and go but the professional will get it right using the right equipment. But who will the average customer choose ? and remember the good old D.I.Yer " Torque settings ! What are you saying ?"
Use a 12V 18V is over kill! 🤣
Your using the impact driver like an absolute amateur, nothing wrong with it if you can actually use power tools just use a bit of finesse not POWER flat out actually use the variable speed.
Why the fu*k would people use a impact driver, just shows the lack of common sense in
some people. 😂
What kind of freaking moron would use an impact driver for something that doesn't benefith from impacts? Most terminals only require a few Nm of torque.
No competent properly trained electrician uses a impact driver to tighten any terminals.
Only the diy brigade and maybe a few gas fitters or plumbers who think they are smart enough to do their own electrics after watching a few you tube videos.
Just remember a little knowledge is dangerous.
I see it every single day.
Clowns who think they can do the electrical work themselves.
It’s scary how low standards have gone.
We’ve seen this or the results of on lots of installs by “approved” contractors
What mOron use on this an impact driver?! 💩
Take manual a screwdriver
nah your stuff is very weak if an impact driver does that to it
Why would anyone ever use an impact driver on such things ?