@davidbecker4900 it's not about highest the maximum range. Kyle showed in many roadtrip test it all comes to the charge rate. Porsche can be out in 10-15 minutes max charging at 350 while teslas take twice that time.
Thanks for pointing out the 400 vs 800 volt difference. The only advantage is lower current between cabinet and battery pack for the same power. Which yes, can help speeds if wiring in that path are being current limited at 400V. The individual cells can only charge so fast and dictate pack charge times. If the individual cell max charge C-rate can only charge 5-80% in 20 minutes, the whole pack can only charge that fast as well.
I like to keep track of my average charge rate by dividing kWh supplied by the minutes charging. Since some start not so high but maintain over a longer time per the Ford that gets that 20 minute boost etc.
Thanks in advance Kyle, for the upcoming Cybertruck charging videos. Can't wait for them. There's no full video out there other than a blurry one where the numbers are not even discernible. And yes, it gets to 80% at exactly 40 minutes. I saw you video with Ryan where the curve was shown, but not the video of the actual charging. By the way, what's going on with the Out of Spec studio charging page? There are a bunch of curve graphs no longer there, including that of the Cybertruck.
11:47 This is a bigger deal than a lot of Tesla folk seem to realize. For the last 6 to 8 years, Tesla owners have been able to largely ignore the public charging infrastructure, and that has left them ignorant with a serious blind spot. The reality is, despite having the most sites, the most stalls, and the best overall coverage, in terms of hardware capability, the Supercharger Network is actually very far behind several of the top public charging providers. And while the Supercharger Network's coverage and size will remain an advantage in the short term, the reality is that several public charging providers are actually matching Tesla's expansion rate in terms of kW of charging capacity deployed per month, and owners of many newer EVs will seek out and prioritize those networks over the Superchargers due to superior site layouts and increased charging power.
@@leanderzulu3494 I honestly think that that "us versus them" mentality is what's going to end up sinking TSLA in the long run. It's very much "white belt" thinking, which ultimately limits growth. Everyone else is working cooperatively for the most part, and the fact that they aren't looking at the EV sector growth as a competition benefits them. At this point, restricting the Superchargers to only (or even mostly) Tesla EV owners is going to start restricting Supercharger usage and revenue, which ultimately hurts Tesla's revenues and their ability to expand and improve the Superchargers.
@@wasabi521 That's the part that a lot of Tesla folk seem to miss: It's no longer the case that more Tesla stalls are going in. Especially when we adjust for actual, installed power. A single, split-power Delta 350 kW unit installed by EVgo has the same power footprint as four V3 Supercharger stalls. The same is true of a shared-power, 400 kW ChargePoint Express dispenser. And ChargePoint and EVgo are both n pace to match or exceed Tesla's U.S. expansion.
don't forget TEsla said Cybertruck will utilize the same megachargers that Semi uses. So, there's probably (another) nextGen charger coming for MegaTeslas
@@EwanM11has released data that pack longevity is not really a concern with supercharging. Maintaining your top and bottom pack buffers is more important. I'd like to see a much fatter mid-range to the curve. Teslas drop off peak very fast and precipitously drop from there. Tesla can do better.
This needs to be shown more broadly. I think the reason the Cybertruck has a smaller battery (besides having a more efficient BOM) than the Silverado and Hummer is because it can charge fast and reliably on the Tesla network. More 800V charging tests, please!
With Tesla embracing NACS adapter, 14:16 and them supporting ISO 15118, I wonder what's the hindrance of CCS retrofits for 2020 and older vehicles yet supporting NACS adapters for automakers. Will they even need retrofit (I presume they still would in order to communicate with the new standard)? My understanding is the communication standard is the reason for retrofitting.
Current flow equals heat. The best indication of battery abuse is heat. 500v at 500 amps=250 kw. 800 v at 500 amps is 400 kw with the same current going into the battery. 800v will generate heat too but it's not as bad as 600 or 700 amps would. Great experiment Out of Spec team!
V4 at 800v rollout is what is needed. I think they are trying to be nice to V2 & V3 charging infrastructure. Having a handful of fast chargers with a lot of downs vs a reliable network all over is a completely different level of difficult.
Yet unkown: what is the cell configuration inside the battery pack? How many in series (you can get this via diagnostics when scanning for the cell voltages, must be something between 192 and 216 cells in series roughly speaking, and dividible by 2) and in parallel (likely 6, this is known)? Also: How will Tesla attach the range extender pack? How will they mount it, connect it, charge it, cool it? Yes, Tesla did not present this range extender pack yet, but there must everything in the Cybertruck to hook it up to.
I bet it’s 192s. Most likely the didn’t change the 96s battery configuration. Although I’d like CT to be up to 1000V for future proofing - silicon carbide already can support such high voltages.
@@NitroZakis Model 3/Y is 96s (2170 NCA or 2170 NMC) or 106s or 108s (prismatic LFP), the short-lived Model Y with 4680 NMC was 92s, early Model S/X was 84s or 96s with 18650 NCA (MY 2012-MY 2020), then since MY2021 Model S/X is 110s (18650 NCA). So, it could be any even number around twice that number from 184s to about 224s for Cybertruck. Tesla does not really stick to anything in the number of cells in series.
@@MooseOnEarth "since MY2021 Model S/X is 110s" - I've read that line wrong. MY'21 w/ 2170 indeed has 96s, just like I thought. This comment is to minimise confusion made by my previous one.
Sadly 50KW is all that car can do, this is part of the reason I passed on it. I liked the ride....small rear seats, slow charging, and low range (and speed limited at 90mph - which isn't so big a deal). It's a great around town car imo......very comfy....I ended up getting the Tesla M3 rwd.
The Tesla FleetAPI and Fleet Telemetry, provides a lot of real time data on charge rates, pack voltage/ current, brick voltage, BMSState and pack energy remaining over the air. Would love for you data nerds to run some of those Cybertruck data points through one of your videos.
I know you can't use the new FSD (Supervised) on the Cybertruck but since Tesla is giving everyone a month free I would be interested in your thoughts on how the updated system is performing. I've tried it on my Model Y and it was surprisingly impressive.
If Tesla finally develops an 800V V4 charger that uses CCS communications, then would there be a 800V certified NACS plug that could work with Hyundai 18 minutes 800V EV charging vehicles? And then maybe they could probably go over the present 244 kW max charging
Hi Kyle, always great content, maybe it would be interesting to see what the Tesla CCS adaptors build prevents full engagement with the Cybertruck port (looks like body diameter issue with CCS and the fender), wonder if another third party CCS adapter would work, there are a couple of manufacturers that would likely be ok to try if they also not only make the NACS adapters.
Ironic that the episode is sponsored by a Kia dealer but they don't mention Kia's 800V vehicles also getting much reduced charging speeds on superchargers because the chargers can't put out enough voltage.
Will American industries ever start cooperating with each other and standardize their products from the beginning? First it was phone chargers, now it's EV chargers.
EA charging faster than Superchargers…🤨…so we’re experiencing the benefits of 800V class charging in a different carrying case.😏Knew this was the achilles heal and there were actually two (3 if you count destination chargers) Tesla SuperCharger networks (V2&V3) out there. Still not convinced the V4 is their highest priority. Certainly wasn’t enough to have deployed a cabinet already. Battery Day 2028❓Maybe but will it be limited in number and the real question is will it be available to non-Tesla’s❓ It’s his own network and he isn’t obligated currently. 🤔 18:16
Cybertruck doesn't need "better" chargers to charge "properly", it's needs higher power chargers to charge at its maximum charge speed. BTW, how do you know the charge curve is not being limited by heat buildup in your jerry-rigged plug adapter?
@@nathanielthelin1051 The truck and software don't need to know there is an adapter to detect heat because there are thermocouples in both the charge port and the charge plug.
The other thing to note is that most of the public 350 kW chargers are limited in how long they can offer their max current of 500 A. Typically, that crossover point is ~700 V, which is why the chargers are rated as "350 kW" (500 A @ 700 V). It's also worth noting that the Cybertruck is likely to be able to accept a full 700 A, even at 800 V, so it will likely peak at over 450 kW on V4 (or any J3400 cable head rated for 700 A). How much of an impact that ultimately has on the overall charging profile is still a question, but hey, bragging rights.
That is not how that works, the battery chemistry, battery architecture and BMS is important for the C-charge rate. The 130kWh 4680 battery pack (123kW net capacity) of the Cybertruck won't charge far above a 3.1C charge rate, which would be a max of around 400kW. Teslas 4680 pack can't charge with that much higher C-rate, no matter how much Amps you give it. For higher charging power with the Cybertruck you will need bigger batteries...or take the latest and greatest Asian batteries which stomp that Tesla battery pack to the ground with 4.5C-5C! The Zeekr 001 just charged its 107kWh golden LFP battety (95kWh net) with a max of 546kW, a 5.1C charge rate, in 11minutes and 30 seconds from 10-80%.
@@BBingo-v5i It appears that you're mixing cells and chemistries. Based on the information we've seen on 4680 from the Model Y, it peaks at ~3.3 C, which would be over 400 kW. I admit that 450 kW peak might be a stretch for the CT, which is why I used qualifiers like "if" and "might." Keep in mind, my primary point was that we know that the charger itself was likely the bottleneck here based on its 500 A current limit, which it can only support up to 700 V.
@@newscoulomb3705 The thing is we don't know how V4 cabinets will look like. In Germany only a few 350kW V4 chargers are live since the beginning of the year. Is that the final design/power output? Or is it still limited by the cabinets? If we look at Tesla from a general perspective then we have to come to the conclusion that everything they produce is mediocre right now because they only focus on cost efficiency rather than tech leadership. It is unlikely they will change this approach and build up a big 450kW charging network with costly cabinets. The jump from 250kW V3 (outdated) to 350kW V4 (good enough for a few years) seems realistic. Besides that, it does not make much sense that Tesla continues with their higher Amps charging approach when the rest of the industry moves over to higher Volts (800V-1000V) and keep Amps at 500A-600A continuous instead (They can peak slightly above that). As far as I know the V4 dispenser cables can accept up to 615A, so in line with the rest of the industry - 700A is not happening. The limiting factor are the cabinets, that was already the case with V2 and V3. And let's not forget about charging losses. The dispenser has a higher power output than what is received ultimately by the battery. I am pretty sure that V4 will output 350kW-360kW directly into the battery. A 90kWh battery pack (86kWh net - a size I could see for a Model Y/Model 3) could charge with 4C with those 360kW. If the Tesla's V4 can't go above 350kW-360kW anyway it is unlikely that the Cybertruck can accept more than that and it will be software limited. Beyond that, the battery chemistry and design of the 4680 cells are not known for high C-charge rates. 450kW for the Cybertruck certainly seems like a stretch and highly unlikely. I see 350kW-360kW as the limit for V4 and future Tesla EVs. Good but not groundbreaking.
@@BBingo-v5i We already know the amperage rating of the V4 cables (over 600 A), but you're right that we don't know the cabinet power for V4. At least on the surface, the Cybertruck appears to have the same battery chemistry and roughly double the capacity of the 4680 Model Y, which hits a peak rate of ~227 kW. Doubling that pushes the peak to over 450 kW. In terms of the public chargers, the primary bottleneck is current, with the fastest CCS1 plugs only rated for 500 A continuous. We already, however, have several hardware providers offering true 500 kW chargers that don't have a 700 V cap when pushing 500 A. So even with a 500 A limit, they should be able to push the Cybertruck and possibly GM's 200+ kWh Ultium models past 400 kW peak charging speeds.
On the whole, Tesla drivers report that road tripping in a Tesla is no problem. Every few hours they take a 20 minute break, and this works out very well. On the other hand, it is clear that the only way Tesla can significantly increase sales volumes is to introduce new models at lower price points. So, you could say that they have definitely missed a step. But how many steps will depend on how quickly the new less expensive model comes out, and whether it meets expectations. If they can keep new models coming, the future looks bright for Tesla.
@@davidmenasco5743 I drive a Tesla. Its a RWD standard range. In general its OK for daily commute. This weekend I am taking a day trip and starting to get annoyed with how limited the range is. I need to charge twice on this journey because there is no Tesla super charger near the location I am going. So on the way there I need to stop to get extra juice so I can come back and get juice to come home. Makes we wish I was richer so I could trade my Tesla in and get a longer range car. Just want to stop a little less.
I am the biggest Tesla fans you guys are 100% right, this is charging as designed. Anyone who says different simply doesn't know what they're talking about.
Is Tesla reluctant to expand V4s into their network because their 4680 battery is struggling to accept that much? The day their batteries actually charge faster will be the day they scream it at the top of their lungs. People need updated charge curves for all EVs at the end of the year. EVs all around the world are side stepping to alternative batteries, while performance metrics stay within similar ranges. It's quite a conundrum, Ill reported, and will surely burn EV adoption in the shorter term.
Model S has a 400V battery, so there's no disadvantage to using the super charger network where the Cybertruck has a 800V battery that pretends to be a 400V battery when using the super charger network
No need to worry, the FoCo Kia dealership long-term loaned the Out of Spec team a Kia EV9 so that we could do real use case and real world testing over a few months.
If everything charged like the new taycan ill be living the dream
Yes, but we be poor. The truth is a taycan is not designed for what Tesla‘s were. Teslas were designed to be mass market taycans never will be.
Taycan is rather poor performance with only 80 MPGe and low range of 200 to 245 miles.
@davidbecker4900 it's not about highest the maximum range. Kyle showed in many roadtrip test it all comes to the charge rate. Porsche can be out in 10-15 minutes max charging at 350 while teslas take twice that time.
Thanks for pointing out the 400 vs 800 volt difference. The only advantage is lower current between cabinet and battery pack for the same power. Which yes, can help speeds if wiring in that path are being current limited at 400V.
The individual cells can only charge so fast and dictate pack charge times. If the individual cell max charge C-rate can only charge 5-80% in 20 minutes, the whole pack can only charge that fast as well.
I like to keep track of my average charge rate by dividing kWh supplied by the minutes charging. Since some start not so high but maintain over a longer time per the Ford that gets that 20 minute boost etc.
Wow, that speed is amazing. Loving the jerryrig solution to ccs charge the cyber truck.
Thanks in advance Kyle, for the upcoming Cybertruck charging videos. Can't wait for them.
There's no full video out there other than a blurry one where the numbers are not even discernible. And yes, it gets to 80% at exactly 40 minutes. I saw you video with Ryan where the curve was shown, but not the video of the actual charging.
By the way, what's going on with the Out of Spec studio charging page? There are a bunch of curve graphs no longer there, including that of the Cybertruck.
11:47 This is a bigger deal than a lot of Tesla folk seem to realize. For the last 6 to 8 years, Tesla owners have been able to largely ignore the public charging infrastructure, and that has left them ignorant with a serious blind spot. The reality is, despite having the most sites, the most stalls, and the best overall coverage, in terms of hardware capability, the Supercharger Network is actually very far behind several of the top public charging providers. And while the Supercharger Network's coverage and size will remain an advantage in the short term, the reality is that several public charging providers are actually matching Tesla's expansion rate in terms of kW of charging capacity deployed per month, and owners of many newer EVs will seek out and prioritize those networks over the Superchargers due to superior site layouts and increased charging power.
We have also seen huge improvement in reliability from third party CCS chargers. EA, EVgo, Chargepoint all seem to be stepping up their game
Good. Bring competition. And stay out of the Supercharger network with your non Tesla EVs
@@leanderzulu3494 I honestly think that that "us versus them" mentality is what's going to end up sinking TSLA in the long run. It's very much "white belt" thinking, which ultimately limits growth. Everyone else is working cooperatively for the most part, and the fact that they aren't looking at the EV sector growth as a competition benefits them.
At this point, restricting the Superchargers to only (or even mostly) Tesla EV owners is going to start restricting Supercharger usage and revenue, which ultimately hurts Tesla's revenues and their ability to expand and improve the Superchargers.
As long ss there are 10 times more tesla stalls going in than their competitors public networks will remain a joke.
@@wasabi521 That's the part that a lot of Tesla folk seem to miss: It's no longer the case that more Tesla stalls are going in. Especially when we adjust for actual, installed power. A single, split-power Delta 350 kW unit installed by EVgo has the same power footprint as four V3 Supercharger stalls. The same is true of a shared-power, 400 kW ChargePoint Express dispenser. And ChargePoint and EVgo are both n pace to match or exceed Tesla's U.S. expansion.
don't forget TEsla said Cybertruck will utilize the same megachargers that Semi uses. So, there's probably (another) nextGen charger coming for MegaTeslas
At this point, ALL teslas need their charging curves improved. The competition all has more aggressive curves in every segment.
I'm more interested in pack longevity. But then i only supercharge once every 3 months or so.
@@EwanM11has released data that pack longevity is not really a concern with supercharging. Maintaining your top and bottom pack buffers is more important. I'd like to see a much fatter mid-range to the curve. Teslas drop off peak very fast and precipitously drop from there. Tesla can do better.
@@BillGardiner they don't deteriorate with their current charge curves, maybe they can go faster, maybe they can't.
Do the SEXY buttons support cybertruck yet? the manual preconditioning works great on my model 3
Hey Kyle, how about using those Christmas lights as an extension cord for the EVSE? 🤣
Don’t know if you guys have done this before, but I would love to see something on camping in the Cybertruck.
This needs to be shown more broadly. I think the reason the Cybertruck has a smaller battery (besides having a more efficient BOM) than the Silverado and Hummer is because it can charge fast and reliably on the Tesla network. More 800V charging tests, please!
With Tesla embracing NACS adapter, 14:16 and them supporting ISO 15118, I wonder what's the hindrance of CCS retrofits for 2020 and older vehicles yet supporting NACS adapters for automakers. Will they even need retrofit (I presume they still would in order to communicate with the new standard)? My understanding is the communication standard is the reason for retrofitting.
Current flow equals heat. The best indication of battery abuse is heat. 500v at 500 amps=250 kw. 800 v at 500 amps is 400 kw with the same current going into the battery.
800v will generate heat too but it's not as bad as 600 or 700 amps would. Great experiment Out of Spec team!
V4 at 800v rollout is what is needed. I think they are trying to be nice to V2 & V3 charging infrastructure. Having a handful of fast chargers with a lot of downs vs a reliable network all over is a completely different level of difficult.
Yet unkown: what is the cell configuration inside the battery pack? How many in series (you can get this via diagnostics when scanning for the cell voltages, must be something between 192 and 216 cells in series roughly speaking, and dividible by 2) and in parallel (likely 6, this is known)?
Also: How will Tesla attach the range extender pack? How will they mount it, connect it, charge it, cool it? Yes, Tesla did not present this range extender pack yet, but there must everything in the Cybertruck to hook it up to.
I bet it’s 192s. Most likely the didn’t change the 96s battery configuration. Although I’d like CT to be up to 1000V for future proofing - silicon carbide already can support such high voltages.
@@NitroZakis Model 3/Y is 96s (2170 NCA or 2170 NMC) or 106s or 108s (prismatic LFP), the short-lived Model Y with 4680 NMC was 92s, early Model S/X was 84s or 96s with 18650 NCA (MY 2012-MY 2020), then since MY2021 Model S/X is 110s (18650 NCA). So, it could be any even number around twice that number from 184s to about 224s for Cybertruck. Tesla does not really stick to anything in the number of cells in series.
@@MooseOnEarth Good to know, I was sure, there is a cell count difference only based on chemistry type. I have a 2021 MY and I was sure it has 96s.
@@MooseOnEarth "since MY2021 Model S/X is 110s" - I've read that line wrong. MY'21 w/ 2170 indeed has 96s, just like I thought. This comment is to minimise confusion made by my previous one.
A big outstanding question about the Cybertruck is how well it repairs. Maybe you could get a look in on the repair of a crashed one.
No, I don't suggest you crash one to find out! :)
I'm watching this while charging my Bolt EUV, max rate 50kw. 😂
Sadly 50KW is all that car can do, this is part of the reason I passed on it. I liked the ride....small rear seats, slow charging, and low range (and speed limited at 90mph - which isn't so big a deal). It's a great around town car imo......very comfy....I ended up getting the Tesla M3 rwd.
In the top gear ct review it was already shared the ct could do 10-80% on a 350kw charger in about 20mins by Lars once updated. 👍🏻
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth....
Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
@KyleConner nerd talk video on educating about Volts, Amps, Onboard charging, AC/DC, 3 phase, etc coming soon?
Fan fn TASTIC
Most sandbaggers don’t wanna show to much too early
Electric vehicle charging stations are working antacids
Is 1 megawatt in the CT future? Semi chargers?
The Tesla FleetAPI and Fleet Telemetry, provides a lot of real time data on charge rates, pack voltage/ current, brick voltage, BMSState and pack energy remaining over the air. Would love for you data nerds to run some of those Cybertruck data points through one of your videos.
Can we get that captured as the official jingle?
I know you can't use the new FSD (Supervised) on the Cybertruck but since Tesla is giving everyone a month free I would be interested in your thoughts on how the updated system is performing. I've tried it on my Model Y and it was surprisingly impressive.
Francie! Are you bringing the Frank Mobile to Summer Meetup in MICHIGAN?
If Tesla finally develops an 800V V4 charger that uses CCS communications, then would there be a 800V certified NACS plug that could work with Hyundai 18 minutes 800V EV charging vehicles? And then maybe they could probably go over the present 244 kW max charging
Hi Kyle, always great content, maybe it would be interesting to see what the Tesla CCS adaptors build prevents full engagement with the Cybertruck port (looks like body diameter issue with CCS and the fender), wonder if another third party CCS adapter would work, there are a couple of manufacturers that would likely be ok to try if they also not only make the NACS adapters.
I think it would be worth while to reach out to CCS Adapter Makers and ask if they plan to may a CT with longer nose version?
Will the Vinfast be going to the path of totality in Arkansas?
Major recall on all Cybertrucks. Gas pedal can get stuck. Park it and get it fixed.
No doubt firmware updates will continue to boost charging performance in the future, especially with the new generation chargers.
Ironic that the episode is sponsored by a Kia dealer but they don't mention Kia's 800V vehicles also getting much reduced charging speeds on superchargers because the chargers can't put out enough voltage.
Will American industries ever start cooperating with each other and standardize their products from the beginning? First it was phone chargers, now it's EV chargers.
Kyle: have you tried the chadmeo after the latest software update?
Tesla fanboys are the worst part of Tesla 😂
Is the fasted charging Tesla brag include the semi?
No, it does not. The Tesla semi charges with way higher peak and average charging power, 750 kW and up.
EA charging faster than Superchargers…🤨…so we’re experiencing the benefits of 800V class charging in a different carrying case.😏Knew this was the achilles heal and there were actually two (3 if you count destination chargers) Tesla SuperCharger networks (V2&V3) out there. Still not convinced the V4 is their highest priority. Certainly wasn’t enough to have deployed a cabinet already. Battery Day 2028❓Maybe but will it be limited in number and the real question is will it be available to non-Tesla’s❓ It’s his own network and he isn’t obligated currently. 🤔 18:16
They possibly want to keep as many cars as possible leading up to FSD going level 4 or 5?
Cybertruck doesn't need "better" chargers to charge "properly", it's needs higher power chargers to charge at its maximum charge speed. BTW, how do you know the charge curve is not being limited by heat buildup in your jerry-rigged plug adapter?
The truck and the charger don’t know there is an adapter plugged in. It is not part of the software.
@@nathanielthelin1051 The truck and software don't need to know there is an adapter to detect heat because there are thermocouples in both the charge port and the charge plug.
The other thing to note is that most of the public 350 kW chargers are limited in how long they can offer their max current of 500 A. Typically, that crossover point is ~700 V, which is why the chargers are rated as "350 kW" (500 A @ 700 V). It's also worth noting that the Cybertruck is likely to be able to accept a full 700 A, even at 800 V, so it will likely peak at over 450 kW on V4 (or any J3400 cable head rated for 700 A).
How much of an impact that ultimately has on the overall charging profile is still a question, but hey, bragging rights.
That is not how that works, the battery chemistry, battery architecture and BMS is important for the C-charge rate. The 130kWh 4680 battery pack (123kW net capacity) of the Cybertruck won't charge far above a 3.1C charge rate, which would be a max of around 400kW. Teslas 4680 pack can't charge with that much higher C-rate, no matter how much Amps you give it. For higher charging power with the Cybertruck you will need bigger batteries...or take the latest and greatest Asian batteries which stomp that Tesla battery pack to the ground with 4.5C-5C!
The Zeekr 001 just charged its 107kWh golden LFP battety (95kWh net) with a max of 546kW, a 5.1C charge rate, in 11minutes and 30 seconds from 10-80%.
@@BBingo-v5i It appears that you're mixing cells and chemistries. Based on the information we've seen on 4680 from the Model Y, it peaks at ~3.3 C, which would be over 400 kW. I admit that 450 kW peak might be a stretch for the CT, which is why I used qualifiers like "if" and "might."
Keep in mind, my primary point was that we know that the charger itself was likely the bottleneck here based on its 500 A current limit, which it can only support up to 700 V.
@@newscoulomb3705 The thing is we don't know how V4 cabinets will look like. In Germany only a few 350kW V4 chargers are live since the beginning of the year. Is that the final design/power output? Or is it still limited by the cabinets? If we look at Tesla from a general perspective then we have to come to the conclusion that everything they produce is mediocre right now because they only focus on cost efficiency rather than tech leadership. It is unlikely they will change this approach and build up a big 450kW charging network with costly cabinets.
The jump from 250kW V3 (outdated) to 350kW V4 (good enough for a few years) seems realistic.
Besides that, it does not make much sense that Tesla continues with their higher Amps charging approach when the rest of the industry moves over to higher Volts (800V-1000V) and keep Amps at 500A-600A continuous instead (They can peak slightly above that).
As far as I know the V4 dispenser cables can accept up to 615A, so in line with the rest of the industry - 700A is not happening.
The limiting factor are the cabinets, that was already the case with V2 and V3. And let's not forget about charging losses. The dispenser has a higher power output than what is received ultimately by the battery. I am pretty sure that V4 will output 350kW-360kW directly into the battery. A 90kWh battery pack (86kWh net - a size I could see for a Model Y/Model 3) could charge with 4C with those 360kW.
If the Tesla's V4 can't go above 350kW-360kW anyway it is unlikely that the Cybertruck can accept more than that and it will be software limited.
Beyond that, the battery chemistry and design of the 4680 cells are not known for high C-charge rates. 450kW for the Cybertruck certainly seems like a stretch and highly unlikely. I see 350kW-360kW as the limit for V4 and future Tesla EVs. Good but not groundbreaking.
@@BBingo-v5i We already know the amperage rating of the V4 cables (over 600 A), but you're right that we don't know the cabinet power for V4.
At least on the surface, the Cybertruck appears to have the same battery chemistry and roughly double the capacity of the 4680 Model Y, which hits a peak rate of ~227 kW. Doubling that pushes the peak to over 450 kW.
In terms of the public chargers, the primary bottleneck is current, with the fastest CCS1 plugs only rated for 500 A continuous. We already, however, have several hardware providers offering true 500 kW chargers that don't have a 700 V cap when pushing 500 A. So even with a 500 A limit, they should be able to push the Cybertruck and possibly GM's 200+ kWh Ultium models past 400 kW peak charging speeds.
I think tesla doesnt care about the other automakers rn, thats why no V4
Is Tesla missing a step lately?
On the whole, Tesla drivers report that road tripping in a Tesla is no problem. Every few hours they take a 20 minute break, and this works out very well.
On the other hand, it is clear that the only way Tesla can significantly increase sales volumes is to introduce new models at lower price points.
So, you could say that they have definitely missed a step. But how many steps will depend on how quickly the new less expensive model comes out, and whether it meets expectations.
If they can keep new models coming, the future looks bright for Tesla.
@@davidmenasco5743 I drive a Tesla. Its a RWD standard range. In general its OK for daily commute. This weekend I am taking a day trip and starting to get annoyed with how limited the range is. I need to charge twice on this journey because there is no Tesla super charger near the location I am going. So on the way there I need to stop to get extra juice so I can come back and get juice to come home. Makes we wish I was richer so I could trade my Tesla in and get a longer range car. Just want to stop a little less.
It would be amazing if he fully shaved his face. We wouldn’t even know who he was.
I am the biggest Tesla fans you guys are 100% right, this is charging as designed. Anyone who says different simply doesn't know what they're talking about.
Is Tesla reluctant to expand V4s into their network because their 4680 battery is struggling to accept that much? The day their batteries actually charge faster will be the day they scream it at the top of their lungs. People need updated charge curves for all EVs at the end of the year. EVs all around the world are side stepping to alternative batteries, while performance metrics stay within similar ranges. It's quite a conundrum, Ill reported, and will surely burn EV adoption in the shorter term.
The business model of Kia is to offer moderate leases only to rip you off at the end of lease.
Wait.. I thought Kyle tested model S before in a 1000v charger?
Model S has a 400V battery, so there's no disadvantage to using the super charger network where the Cybertruck has a 800V battery that pretends to be a 400V battery when using the super charger network
Conflict of interest??? This episode Sponsored by Colorado Kia dealership??? Loss of faith.
No need to worry, the FoCo Kia dealership long-term loaned the Out of Spec team a Kia EV9 so that we could do real use case and real world testing over a few months.