That sinking feeling when you open your tent expecting glorious weather to be met by fog. You kept your pecker up and produced some great photographs. Looks wonderful up there. Cheers.
Honestly andy, because the hike was so fantastic and the views were incredible, waking up in cloud really didn’t disappoint me that much. If we’d hiked up in cloud and back down in cloud, then maybe it wouldn’t have been much fun 😉 But as it stood, it was a really successful 24 hours. I hope you’re well and take it easy mate 🍺
Hi Rob That’s very kind mate and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. I’m back up there in the next four weeks and so I can understand why you’ve been 3 times. A fantastic location Take care 🍺
Hi ELTIN, Apologies for the late reply as I’ve only just seen your comment. I don’t hang many, but I did hang the cloud inversion 😉 Have a great week bud 🍺
Hi dan That’s very kind mate and thanks for taking the time to comment. I absolutely love Snowdonia and I’m back there shortly to shoot and meet up with a few friends. Have a great week 👍
Must say I would love to do that. But looking at that path it looks hard going. And you had a guide with you haha. Not sure I would try that without knowledge lol well done you
Hi Paul, You’re right to be apprehensive and if I wasn’t for Dave, I probably wouldn’t have chosen such a high peak to go wild camping on my own for the 1st time. However, now I’ve done one, I’m going back this Saturday to do another and this time I will be going solo. There are no obvious paths on the OS maps for the route I’m going, but I’ve plotted a route that seems good, but I may have to tweak it along the way. Try it mate, I’m sure you’ll love it.
Hi Derek, and thanks for the kind comment. It’s probably my favourite image of 2019 and so now I need another one just like it. I better start planning my next trip 🍺
Thoroughly enjoyable mountain hike and very well timed. This is your best selection of images in a vlog for me, capturing the light, contrast and angles with added atmosphere. Great work Darren 👍👍
Cheers James, and I have to agree, the selection of images from this trip were very successful and It was nice to come away with 2-3 keepers from a single shoot. Let’s just hope we get similar conditions (apart from the cloud) next month 👍 Take it easy matey
Pity about the sunrise Darren but I can tell by your outro you really did enjoy every minute of that - your face was on the summit was a joy to see and that grin couldn't have got any wider - having been on mountain tops with that very same feeling I can fully understand what you was feeling. You still got decent images to come away with from your visit and this video will be there as a reminder of the great time you had. Very enjoyable to watch.
Hi Alan, Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment mate, it’s truly appreciated. I’m glad you enjoyed it as it was a pleasure to make. And you’re right, big big smiles were the order of the day. Take it easy matey and I hope you’re enjoying this beautiful weather 🍺
What are you doing watching my video today Jamie? Ain’t you somewhere hot and exotic 😉 The image you’re referring to is probably my favourite image of 2019. Not only is it a nice image, but it’s captured a fantastic memory of my 1st wild camp. What a place! Take it easy brother 🍺
Hi Teddy, Thanks for watching and I agree, it’s a stunning location. The hike was a little tough at times, but well worth it. I hope you’re well mate 👍
Your welcome yes its always worth the effort when you get rewarded with the views. Im fine thanks just sulking a bit though because I have been editing a great day from my Scottish holiday and I wish I was still there atb :D
Well Darren, just loved this video, Dave and yourself are 2 of the guys I think I watch the most and you don't disappoint The images you've taken are just fantastic Keep up the great work
Hi Gary And thanks for yet another lovely comment. I’m pleased you enjoyed the video as much a I enjoyed making it. They’re a fantastic way of recording memories and trips I’ve had over the years. Dave’s a lovely guy and knows the area so well, which makes things a lot easier. Take care mate and I hope you’re enjoying the sunshine 🍺
Hi Tom, Yes mate it was a fantastic 24 hrs and even though I woke up in cloud, it just gave the mountain a whole new feel. What a stunning place Snowdonia is. Thanks for watching bud 👍
Hi Mike, I’m glad you picked up on that as in many cases you’re right. Getting down the scree was certainly more dangerous than walking up it. And going down through the Devils kitchen was quite tough on the knees, especially with such a heavy pack. My shoulders were also quite sore by the end and it was a relief to take the pack off when we finally arrived back at the car. I’m glad you enjoyed it mate and thanks for watching. 👍
Amazing vlog Darren and stunning images too. Thanks for sharing your experience with us, and hope you had a hearty breakfast when you got to the cottage?
Hi Paul, You’re more than welcome and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. And you’re right, we had a HUGE big boy breakfast 🍳 And a nap 😉 See ya
Cheers Dave And as always thanks for your great company mate. I couldn’t have done it without you.......well I could, but I wouldn’t have had a personal chef who cooks the best super noodles 😉 Until next time 👋
Hi Carl, Thanks mate. Yep, I love the printed image and a fantastic reminder of my 1st wild camp. Take it easy mate and I hope you’re enjoying the fantastic weather today. 🍺
I was looking forward to this second half. It was well worth it. If I had the same wild camp trip to do i'd have to plan 3 days and 2 nights simply because of my hips slowing me down. To get my old worn out body up there I'd have had to have gone at a much slower pace. Sheer doggedness would have taken me up. I so enjoyed your vlog of it, I know that doing the trip with such a top bloke made it all the more pleasurable. Well done, great shots!
Hi Dennis, As you’ve clearly watched part 1, you’d know I was apprehensive about the hike, but I found slow and steady was the perfect way to get to the top. Not only was that the best way for me, but I got to enjoy the fantastic views along the way. Thank you ever so much for watching both videos and I’m pleased you enjoyed them. Take care and I hope you have a great week 👍
Hi Stefan, Scotland is high on my list but the distance is keeping me away at the moment. Snowdonia is closest to me at 200 miles, followed by the Lakes at 280. I can do Snowdonia over a weekend and I suppose that’s why I’m there so much recently. Enjoy Scotland and I’m sure you’ll get some cracking images and have a fantastic time in a stunning part of the world. Take care bud 👍
Honestly, Waking up in cloud really didn’t bother me to much Julian. The hike and the cloud inversion made the trip so worthwhile. Snowdonia is a place I’m quickly falling in love with. I hope you’re enjoying the sunshine mate. BBQ weather 🍺🍺
Another cracking video Darren. It's a few years since I was last up there, so it was great to see it again. Both you and Dave make some great images. Kind regards - Rob
Hi Rob, Thanks for the kind comment bud. Well it was a 1st for me, but it certainly won’t be my last visit to the Glyders or my last wild camp. And We just struck very lucky with the weather. Have a great weekend matey 🍺
Cracking 2 vlogs bud and images. Glyder fawr has been on my to do list for as long as I can remember and always has the wow factor in every vlog I watch. Well done great achievement 💪
JustDuff please do it bud, you won’t regret it. I know we had great conditions, but even if we hadn’t have had the inversion, I would have still loved being up there. I’m planning on going back myself in the next 6 weeks. Stunning area! Take care matey 🍺
Hi John, I’m really pleased you enjoyed it and thank you for taking the time to watch and to comment. It’s by having people like you who watch and subscribe, makes producing these videos very worthwhile. Have a great weekend matey 👍
One of my favourite walks up there. youve got some fantastic images there Darren. Thanks for sharing your adventures and really enjoyed the time lapse too.
Hi simon and thanks for the lovely comment. It’s a stunning place, with the cloud inversion making it even more special. It was a big hike for me, but now I’ve done 1, I can’t wait to do another. Have a great weekend bud 👍
You’ve nailed it right there simon. It was as actually more about the hike than the photography to be honest. The images were a real bonus, but the hike, the views and the experience just stole the show. Have a great weekend mate and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment 🍺
Wonderful series of videos. I can’t say enough how much I enjoyed this Darren! Huge achievement and great to view with so many great shots. Thank you for taking us with you by the video but hopefully we can do it soon together. An excellent vlog 👌
Hi Mali, I’d love that mate and thanks for the lovely comment, I’m really pleased you enjoyed them. It was a fantastic experience and I’ve already got another 3 trips planned. Take care sausage x
Hi Ian, They really are mate and it’s an adventure that I won’t forget in a hurry that’s for sure. I’ve already got a few more trips planned and I’m looking forward to exploring more later this year. I hope you’re enjoying enjoying the weather up on the coast 🍺
Amazing Darren, beautiful photos and the view is spectacular! Can you tell if those situation are predictable, cloud moving in at a certain time of days? Weather channel of some sort!
Hi Bernard, I think if you were to ask seasoned hikers or landscape photographers they would tell you when a cloud inversion is likely, but to my knowledge it’s not a guarantee. I’m just so pleased I got to witness one, whilst being up on the ridge line. Have a great weekend bud 👍
Honestly David, it really didn’t dent my enthusiasm at all. The hike, the views and the inversion was more than enough for me. Thank you so much for always taking the time to watch and comment. It means a lot mate. 🍺🍺
Hello very helpful video, helps me so much to make idea how it looks up there so now I feel very ready for my hike, can I ask how long it takes yp to Glyder Fawr from cottage with 20kg backpack, aslo what app please do you use for 3d map you used on beginning , Thank you
Hi Lucy, I plot my routes on the online version of OS maps. It’s £25 per year but worth every penny. Once you plotted your route on your pc, you can then save it to your phone (just download the app) and or watch (via a gpx file). It depends how fit and fast you are but I’d allow around 3 hours with a fully loaded pack. Make sure you have walking poles as the scree is hard work and quite loose on the descent and so you’ll need them to steady yourself. Have fun 👋
@@DarrenKnightPhoto Thank you so much...at the end I decided to just flow with time and it tooks me 2 times more as I wax filming and my shoe felt apart:) But Im learning on every hike something new..Thank you again for you reply...
TBH James my back was fine, but I didn’t sleep well due to my choice of mattress and my shoulders were hurting during the last kilometre home, but apart from that it was absolutely fine. You’d have loved it
Mi Dean forgive my poor translation, but I’m sure you’ve heard it called the castle before. It’s a beautiful location and one I’ll be returning to very soon 🍺
Great video. Llyn Bochlwyd is the proper name and should alway be used. People call Welsh name different things as they can't pronounce them properly. Use them too much and it then becomes the norm, which would be a big shame.
Wonderful video and awesome landscape. Greetings my friend and have a great weekend. Thumbs up.
Thanks Greg and sorry for the late reply, but I’ve only just seen your comment.
Have a great week bud 👍
That sinking feeling when you open your tent expecting glorious weather to be met by fog. You kept your pecker up and produced some great photographs. Looks wonderful up there. Cheers.
Honestly andy,
because the hike was so fantastic and the views were incredible, waking up in cloud really didn’t disappoint me that much.
If we’d hiked up in cloud and back down in cloud, then maybe it wouldn’t have been much fun 😉
But as it stood, it was a really successful 24 hours.
I hope you’re well and take it easy mate 🍺
@@DarrenKnightPhoto Awesome mentality Darren
Brilliant! Been up there 3 times now it’s amazing mate cracking images loved them all, 👍
Hi Rob
That’s very kind mate and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment.
I’m back up there in the next four weeks and so I can understand why you’ve been 3 times.
A fantastic location
Take care 🍺
Mountain hiking is gone beyond me but great to watch on you channel.
You got some lovely 'Wall Hangers' there 👌
Hi ELTIN,
Apologies for the late reply as I’ve only just seen your comment.
I don’t hang many, but I did hang the cloud inversion 😉
Have a great week bud 🍺
Just come across your videos Darren, what a great job!! I too love Snowdonia like yourself. Please keep up the great work, thanks for sharing!
Hi dan
That’s very kind mate and thanks for taking the time to comment.
I absolutely love Snowdonia and I’m back there shortly to shoot and meet up with a few friends.
Have a great week 👍
wonderful part 2 buddy enjoyed it
Cheers Mark and thanks for watching 🍺
Must say I would love to do that. But looking at that path it looks hard going. And you had a guide with you haha. Not sure I would try that without knowledge lol well done you
Hi Paul,
You’re right to be apprehensive and if I wasn’t for Dave, I probably wouldn’t have chosen such a high peak to go wild camping on my own for the 1st time.
However, now I’ve done one, I’m going back this Saturday to do another and this time I will be going solo.
There are no obvious paths on the OS maps for the route I’m going, but I’ve plotted a route that seems good, but I may have to tweak it along the way.
Try it mate, I’m sure you’ll love it.
Aye, Mother Nature is the best mistress, changeable but always beautiful!
Very poetic and very true Iain 👍
I'd hate for you to think I had a poetic soul.
Forget the 42 virgin's I'll just take a big round one with large paps ;-)
the view is amazing
Hi Noealz
It really is mate. It’s a stunning part of the world 👍
great video Darren Brill-Tastic images loved the framed shot
Hi Derek,
and thanks for the kind comment. It’s probably my favourite image of 2019 and so now I need another one just like it.
I better start planning my next trip 🍺
Thoroughly enjoyable mountain hike and very well timed. This is your best selection of images in a vlog for me, capturing the light, contrast and angles with added atmosphere. Great work Darren 👍👍
Cheers James,
and I have to agree, the selection of images from this trip were very successful and It was nice to come away with 2-3 keepers from a single shoot.
Let’s just hope we get similar conditions (apart from the cloud) next month 👍
Take it easy matey
Lovely vlog Darren, you were like a kid in a sweetshop!! 😀
Cheers Jon,
That’s because I was 😉
Excellent. Vlog. And a Great set. Of images well done
Hi paul,
Thanks for watching mate and thanks for the lovely comment.
I hope you’re having a great weekend 🍺
Pity about the sunrise Darren but I can tell by your outro you really did enjoy every minute of that - your face was on the summit was a joy to see and that grin couldn't have got any wider - having been on mountain tops with that very same feeling I can fully understand what you was feeling. You still got decent images to come away with from your visit and this video will be there as a reminder of the great time you had. Very enjoyable to watch.
Hi Alan,
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment mate, it’s truly appreciated.
I’m glad you enjoyed it as it was a pleasure to make.
And you’re right, big big smiles were the order of the day.
Take it easy matey and I hope you’re enjoying this beautiful weather 🍺
The image you printed is stunning mate and well worth the trip for that alone, let alone the others and the great time you had I’m sure 👍
What are you doing watching my video today Jamie? Ain’t you somewhere hot and exotic 😉
The image you’re referring to is probably my favourite image of 2019. Not only is it a nice image, but it’s captured a fantastic memory of my 1st wild camp.
What a place!
Take it easy brother 🍺
Darren Knight Photo What better way to enjoy your video than cooling off on the balcony, beer in hand whilst Mrs O spends three hours doing her hair 😂
I really enjoyed seeing this part 2 the views were amazing and you captured some very nice photographs. Thanks for sharing this trip atb :D Teddy
Hi Teddy,
Thanks for watching and I agree, it’s a stunning location. The hike was a little tough at times, but well worth it.
I hope you’re well mate 👍
Your welcome yes its always worth the effort when you get rewarded with the views. Im fine thanks just sulking a bit though because I have been editing a great day from my Scottish holiday and I wish I was still there atb :D
Top video Darren, enjoyed watching this. Thanks very much for sharing mate.
Hi Adrian,
You’re more than welcome sir.
And thank you for taking the time to watch and to comment.
I hope you’re enjoying the weather today 🍺
Well Darren, just loved this video,
Dave and yourself are 2 of the guys I think I watch the most and you don't disappoint
The images you've taken are just fantastic
Keep up the great work
Hi Gary
And thanks for yet another lovely comment.
I’m pleased you enjoyed the video as much a I enjoyed making it. They’re a fantastic way of recording memories and trips I’ve had over the years.
Dave’s a lovely guy and knows the area so well, which makes things a lot easier.
Take care mate and I hope you’re enjoying the sunshine 🍺
@@DarrenKnightPhoto you deserve it Darren
Not only great shots but a fun and interesting way of getting it across
Great image at 6:35, love it! What a fab adventure. Despite the fog in the morning, it looked amazing.
That wasn’t fog Simon it was cloud. I was only a few meters lower than Everest 😉
I hope you’re well mate 🍺
Cracking vlog mate, and some awesome images! Shame you didn’t get the light you was after but what a place to shoot
Hi Tom,
Yes mate it was a fantastic 24 hrs and even though I woke up in cloud, it just gave the mountain a whole new feel.
What a stunning place Snowdonia is.
Thanks for watching bud 👍
Darren Knight Photo amazing location! Shame it’s so far for me to just pop into lol 😂
Throughly enjoyable
Incredible conditions and super images
Bravo DK
Hi Dar,
You need to put this one on your list mate. You’ll absolutely love it.
Take care matey and I hope you’re having a good weekend 🍺
Great story, very jealous of you and Dave. Looks like the trip down was harder than going up!
Hi Mike,
I’m glad you picked up on that as in many cases you’re right.
Getting down the scree was certainly more dangerous than walking up it.
And going down through the Devils kitchen was quite tough on the knees, especially with such a heavy pack.
My shoulders were also quite sore by the end and it was a relief to take the pack off when we finally arrived back at the car.
I’m glad you enjoyed it mate and thanks for watching.
👍
Amazing vlog Darren and stunning images too. Thanks for sharing your experience with us, and hope you had a hearty breakfast when you got to the cottage?
Hi Paul,
You’re more than welcome and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment.
And you’re right, we had a HUGE big boy breakfast 🍳
And a nap 😉
See ya
Cracking vlog and that printed image was worth the visit alone ;-)
Thanks mate,
You were sorely missed but let’s arrange a less aggressive trip for later on in the year.
Come on, you know you want too 😉
Well obviously the framed print is a keeper, but I’m so pleased you also got the Castle mono too because that’s not to shabby at all mate 😊👍
Cheers Dave
And as always thanks for your great company mate.
I couldn’t have done it without you.......well I could, but I wouldn’t have had a personal chef who cooks the best super noodles 😉
Until next time 👋
very intesresting video - beautiful area. Shame about the mist - but cant have everything ;) thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching Charles 👍
Stunningly beautiful Darren, the images in print, :-) Awesome memories to treasure and display.
Hi Carl,
Thanks mate. Yep, I love the printed image and a fantastic reminder of my 1st wild camp.
Take it easy mate and I hope you’re enjoying the fantastic weather today. 🍺
I was looking forward to this second half. It was well worth it. If I had the same wild camp trip to do i'd have to plan 3 days and 2 nights simply because of my hips slowing me down. To get my old worn out body up there I'd have had to have gone at a much slower pace. Sheer doggedness would have taken me up.
I so enjoyed your vlog of it, I know that doing the trip with such a top bloke made it all the more pleasurable.
Well done, great shots!
Hi Dennis,
As you’ve clearly watched part 1, you’d know I was apprehensive about the hike, but I found slow and steady was the perfect way to get to the top.
Not only was that the best way for me, but I got to enjoy the fantastic views along the way.
Thank you ever so much for watching both videos and I’m pleased you enjoyed them.
Take care and I hope you have a great week 👍
Thats some stunning landscapes and images u got there, Darren :) Breathtaking! Cant wait to see such scenery, off to Scotland next month :)
Hi Stefan,
Scotland is high on my list but the distance is keeping me away at the moment. Snowdonia is closest to me at 200 miles, followed by the Lakes at 280. I can do Snowdonia over a weekend and I suppose that’s why I’m there so much recently.
Enjoy Scotland and I’m sure you’ll get some cracking images and have a fantastic time in a stunning part of the world.
Take care bud 👍
Cracking vid mate. Great images. Shame you didn’t get the sunrise but up there, I guess you’ve gotta be happy with whatever you get!
Honestly, Waking up in cloud really didn’t bother me to much Julian. The hike and the cloud inversion made the trip so worthwhile.
Snowdonia is a place I’m quickly falling in love with.
I hope you’re enjoying the sunshine mate. BBQ weather 🍺🍺
I’ve been up on climbing trips a number of times Darren but not yet been up with my camera. I’m looking forward to it though.
Julian Greaves go go go 😉
Another cracking video Darren. It's a few years since I was last up there, so it was great to see it again. Both you and Dave make some great images. Kind regards - Rob
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the kind comment bud.
Well it was a 1st for me, but it certainly won’t be my last visit to the Glyders or my last wild camp.
And We just struck very lucky with the weather.
Have a great weekend matey 🍺
Cracking 2 vlogs bud and images. Glyder fawr has been on my to do list for as long as I can remember and always has the wow factor in every vlog I watch. Well done great achievement 💪
JustDuff please do it bud, you won’t regret it.
I know we had great conditions, but even if we hadn’t have had the inversion, I would have still loved being up there.
I’m planning on going back myself in the next 6 weeks.
Stunning area!
Take care matey 🍺
It's vlogs like this that take me to places like that to see the beauty. Thanks so much for another great vlog Darren. Great images to be proud of.
Hi John,
I’m really pleased you enjoyed it and thank you for taking the time to watch and to comment.
It’s by having people like you who watch and subscribe, makes producing these videos very worthwhile.
Have a great weekend matey 👍
One of my favourite walks up there. youve got some fantastic images there Darren. Thanks for sharing your adventures and really enjoyed the time lapse too.
Hi simon and thanks for the lovely comment.
It’s a stunning place, with the cloud inversion making it even more special.
It was a big hike for me, but now I’ve done 1, I can’t wait to do another.
Have a great weekend bud 👍
Fantastic images Darren, must have been worth it just for the experience.
You’ve nailed it right there simon. It was as actually more about the hike than the photography to be honest.
The images were a real bonus, but the hike, the views and the experience just stole the show.
Have a great weekend mate and thanks for taking the time to watch and comment 🍺
Wonderful series of videos. I can’t say enough how much I enjoyed this Darren! Huge achievement and great to view with so many great shots. Thank you for taking us with you by the video but hopefully we can do it soon together. An excellent vlog 👌
Hi Mali,
I’d love that mate and thanks for the lovely comment, I’m really pleased you enjoyed them.
It was a fantastic experience and I’ve already got another 3 trips planned.
Take care sausage x
Great videos. Found them via Daves channel and subbed. Brilliant shots as well.
Lovely place to be , been there a few times, the views are stunning from up there.
Hi Ian,
They really are mate and it’s an adventure that I won’t forget in a hurry that’s for sure.
I’ve already got a few more trips planned and I’m looking forward to exploring more later this year.
I hope you’re enjoying enjoying the weather up on the coast 🍺
I’m a bit late to the film but both parts were great and your images were stellar!
A great insight into a walk I'm hoping to do next week.. Thank you
Amazing Darren, beautiful photos and the view is spectacular! Can you tell if those situation are predictable, cloud moving in at a certain time of days? Weather channel of some sort!
Hi Bernard,
I think if you were to ask seasoned hikers or landscape photographers they would tell you when a cloud inversion is likely, but to my knowledge it’s not a guarantee.
I’m just so pleased I got to witness one, whilst being up on the ridge line.
Have a great weekend bud 👍
love it
Brilliant
Some great images from the evening, love the mono shot. Shame about the dog on the morning, still you can't plan for the weather!
Honestly David, it really didn’t dent my enthusiasm at all.
The hike, the views and the inversion was more than enough for me.
Thank you so much for always taking the time to watch and comment. It means a lot mate.
🍺🍺
Hello very helpful video, helps me so much to make idea how it looks up there so now I feel very ready for my hike, can I ask how long it takes yp to Glyder Fawr from cottage with 20kg backpack, aslo what app please do you use for 3d map you used on beginning , Thank you
Hi Lucy,
I plot my routes on the online version of OS maps. It’s £25 per year but worth every penny.
Once you plotted your route on your pc, you can then save it to your phone (just download the app) and or watch (via a gpx file).
It depends how fit and fast you are but I’d allow around 3 hours with a fully loaded pack.
Make sure you have walking poles as the scree is hard work and quite loose on the descent and so you’ll need them to steady yourself.
Have fun 👋
@@DarrenKnightPhoto Thank you so much...at the end I decided to just flow with time and it tooks me 2 times more as I wax filming and my shoe felt apart:)
But Im learning on every hike something new..Thank you again for you reply...
Great location and shots! How was the back after a night of tenting? 😁
TBH James my back was fine, but I didn’t sleep well due to my choice of mattress and my shoulders were hurting during the last kilometre home, but apart from that it was absolutely fine.
You’d have loved it
@@DarrenKnightPhoto I'd have loved some aspects of it 😉
Glyderau is a great place
castell y gwent its not a castle. it is great up there great vid, its the less visited part of Snowdonia and even better in the winter
Mi Dean forgive my poor translation, but I’m sure you’ve heard it called the castle before.
It’s a beautiful location and one I’ll be returning to very soon 🍺
What muppet disliked this video?
Each to their own Chris. It was probably my mum 😞
Darren Knight Photo 🤣
Great video. Llyn Bochlwyd is the proper name and should alway be used. People call Welsh name different things as they can't pronounce them properly. Use them too much and it then becomes the norm, which would be a big shame.